New to this Forum

[Julie Smith]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to introduce my girl Poppy as Im new to this! Poppy is just over 11 years old. She is a cavalier x chihuahua and has a whole host of health issues, including Mitral Valve Disease, Syringomyelia, Seizures and Cushings Disease. She is the sweetest little girl! She was diagnosed with cushings last August. She started showing the common symptoms of panting, increased thirst, hunger and urination and pot bellied appearance. After the usual tests (scan and bloods), Cushings was diagnosed. She was started on Vetoryl 20mg a day and did ok for a few months, however then the symptoms re-started. After another test, her dose was increased to 30mg a day. Whilst her cushings symptoms are much more controlled, the 30mg strength is tough on her already sensitive tummy. Weve tried 30mg once a day and 20mg morning and 10mg at night but its still the same. She has diarrhoea most of the time and sometimes with blood in it. She is under the vets constantly due to this and all her other conditions so she is being monitored closely but i just wondered if anyone else has found this side effect too? We are now looking for ways to help her tummy, we are trying everything possible! Thank you in advance for any advice!

[Joan2517]

Hi and welcome to you and Poppy. How much does she weigh? And could you post the results of the test that confirmed Cushings and the ACTH tests that show her cortisol levels, please? Blood work results with only the HIGHS, LOWS, and REF ranges would also help. The Vetoryl dose is usually 1mg per pound and is to be given with a full meal. ACTH tests are usually 4-6 hours after dosing or if you are doing the Cortisol resting test, it is done before the usual first dose of the day.

Others who are more knowledgeable than I am will be along to help with your questions.

We are happy that you have found us Poppy sounds adorable. I have a year old Chihuahua, who we adore; a 15 year old Puggle, who probably has Cushing's; and a 9 year old toy Poodle, who is my baby. My two pups who had Cushings were a Lab mix and a teacup Poodle.

I learned a lot from this forum and don't know how I would've gotten through the Cushing's without the wonderful friends I have made here.

[Julie Smith]

Hi, Poppy is 9.5kg. Your babies sound adorable 😍 I have all her results - I’m so sorry I’m not very good at this - is there a way for me to attach them? I can’t seem to find a way! Thank you

[labblab]

Hello and welcome from me, too! Poppy sounds like a sweetheart, and we’re so glad you’ve found us. You need not apologize at all about any questions re: posting. Even though I’m a staffer here, I’m terrible when it comes to technical stuff and usually have to ask for help, myself. I do know that members are not allowed to upload attachments other than photos (for reasons of site security). But if you want to take photos of any of Poppy’s results, you can create a photo album here or even upload the images directly into a reply.

Barring that, though, the results we’re most interested in are the measurements of her cortisol levels, both diagnostically and on the monitoring tests. And also just any abnormal results on other tests. So if you want to try to just type that info into a reply, that may be the easier thing to do.

I surely sympathize with you about the GI problems. I’ve had three Labs now, and although only my first was a Cushpup, I’ve had GI problems with them all at various times. Like Poppy, my Cushing’s dog often had bloody stools, but for him it was both before and after starting the Vetoryl. So we came to believe that his GI irritation probably was not due to the medication, but instead some other inflammatory issue that accompanied his Cushing’s diagnosis. But having said that, my second girl had chronic pancreatitis and digestive issues without having Cushing’s at all.

At various times, my dogs were treated with metronidazole, probiotics, medicinal clay, and some other enzymatic products. And my girl was on a limited ingredient diet for most of her adult life, due to skin allergies in addition to the GI problems. I wish I had a magic cure that I could pass on to you, but mainly we kind of cycled through times that were better and times that were worse. Is Poppy taking any medications right now that are specifically aimed at helping soothe her GI system?

Marianne

[Julie Smith]

Hi! I’ve added Poppys test results to an album! Hope you can see them. Thank you so much for the support. We are just navigating our way around dealing with Cushings - it’s been 10 months now and we are still finding our feet! We are trying to help Poppys GI symptoms with diet and supplements etc before any medical management.

[labblab]

Hi again, Julie. Thanks so very much for uploading these photos of Poppy’s test results. They are indeed consistent with Cushing’s, and the ultrasound points to the pituitary form of the disease. One remaining question I have is whether Poppy’s cortisol level has been rechecked since the increase to the 30 mg. From what I’m seeing, the monitoring pre-pill test you’ve shown us dates from last August, so I’m guessing it may reflect the original 20 mg. dose. If so, I’m just wondering what effect the increase may have had on her cortisol level. Since it sounds as though her observable Cushing’s symptoms are now under better control, we’d assume the 30 mg. is an agreeable dose for Poppy. But if her cortisol is now dropping a bit too low, perhaps that may be contributing to her GI distress. So if her cortisol level has not been re-checked recently, I think that would be advisable.

Once again, thanks so much for all this additional info.
Marianne

[Julie Smith]

Hi Marianne - I’m sorry I missed one result to upload - I’ve done it now - this one is from February post the increase in meds.

[labblab]

Aha! I see it, and thank you for adding it. Poppy’s February result was just fine, so I won’t be blaming low cortisol for her GI issues. At least that much is good to know. So I’m afraid I’m back to Square One in terms of suggestions. There is a particular herbal supplement that has been recommended by some of our members over the years for soothing intestinal irritation. It’s called slippery elm bark, and here’s an article about it:

https://littlebigcat.com/slippery-elm/

Although other folks here have given it positive reviews, I did try it with one of my own dogs, but without obvious success. And one big reservation I have about recommending it for Cushing’s dogs is that it is typically given with meals and it may interfere with the absorption of other medications. For Cushpups, this is especially an issue since trilostane should be given at mealtime, too. Also, I keep hoping to see results from some controlled experiments that might document its benefit. Although this supplement has been used for years, most of the reporting is all anecdotal. So having said all that, it might not be suitable for Poppy at all. But if you have any interest in considering it after reading the article, definitely consult first with your vets to see if they’d consider trying it.

As I mentioned earlier, the other things that I tried with my own dogs were intermittent courses of metronidazole (a prescription antibiotic/anti-inflammatory), and prebiotics/probiotics to try to improve the gut flora. Hopefully some other folks may stop by with additional suggestions that may add to the dietary/supplemental changes that you are already trying.

Marianne

[Julie Smith]

Thank you so much for this information - I will most certainly look into this - Poppy does have a digestive supplement which contains slippery elm so i will research more! We had a vet appointment at the weekend and I asked about Metronidazole as this had been mentioned on Instagram too but unfortunately from the 17th May 2024, here in the UK, vets are no longer permitted to prescribe prophylactic antibiotics unless in an emergency situation. We have come away with a plan do deal with her GI issues with diet and supplements so hopefully this will work. Thank you again Marianne for all your help and advice - its much appreciated. Its my girls anniversary today - 11 years ago she came home to us!

[Harley PoMMom]

When my dog had severe colitis, the vet put him on Pro-Pectalin, one can purchase this online without a script. I have bought it recently from Chewy and it comes in a paste form in a tube. Here's a link: https://www.chewy.com/vetoquinol-pro-pectalin-diarrhea/dp/109719?utm_id=401602607&msclkid=53775252459f1b06cb85343b930388d7&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_NC_Dog_HC_Over%20the%20Count er&utm_term=4584963495200333&utm_content=Digestive%20Care-Dog%20Medications

Hugs, Lori

[labblab]

I’m so glad Lori has made this suggestion. Also, that’s so interesting that Poppy’s supplement already contains slippery elm. Hopefully you’ll soon begin to see some positive results from the supplements and dietary changes.

As far as the metronidazole, coincidentally yesterday I just read an article in a U.S. vet journal where the author was cautioning against the over-use of metronidazole as a first-line GI intervention. I know that, generally, there’s a lot of concern about breeding super-bacteria that are antibiotic resistant due to excessive antibiotic use in situations where it’s not really necessary. So I guess I can’t really criticize this new regulation in the U.K. Hopefully Poppy won’t be getting into an emergency situation at all!

Please do keep us updated, and Happy Anniversary to Poppy and your family :-)))))))

Marianne

[Julie Smith]

Thank yo so much for this Lori - we have been using the Pro-Kolin which looks similar but may be worth giving this a try. I can report that we have had a good couple of days - I think the Pro-Fibre pellets are definitely helping!

[Harley PoMMom]

You are so welcome, that Pro-Pectalin worked really well for my boy, the first dose firmed his stools instantly, he took it for 10 days. I've been using it with my cat right now and it is working wonderfully.

Hugs, Lori

[Julie Smith]

Thank you so much Marianne and Lori - I am pleased to report that Poppys GI problems are improving thanks to everyones help!

[medusa]

Hi, hope your girl is better . My girl had a bad diarrhea also, in our case it was a result of chronic pancreatitis. (as i understand is something many cush pups face). She is on special low fat diet now and she had been ok the last 2 months.

[Harley PoMMom]

So glad to read that Poppy is improving!!!