UTI + Overnight blindness + then sudden dementia like symptoms + Cushings dx

[SassyTerrier]

My senior Yorky silky terrier mix woke up blind. I was traumatized. I didn’t know anything like this could exist.
This year she has been walking from 1-2x around the block to begging for 6x around the block (contest little girl, I can’t say no to her requests).

I thought we were doing really well, and in November I noticed she started drinking a lot of water! Suddenly, she Peed on the floor, and she’s never done that before. I called the vet and he wanted to run test for diabetes and get to urinalysis. No diabetes. Positive urinalysis.

We were good.

Then mid February 2020. UTI returned. Back to vet. I noticed she couldn’t smell her food dish. Odd.
UTI confirmed. I administered her Heartguard chewy. We went to bed.
Next day, she woke up BLIND. No time to adjust. Just blind.
She was stuck behind a door trying to get to me. I can’t forget this moment.
The day before we were playing fetch. I watch videos from 2 days before and I sob.

The night before being blind she did bark at my bed, when I wasn’t in it (but she always barks at it if I’m in it to let me know she needs to go potty or chase the rat outside or bark at the possum on fence.

This wouldn’t be as bad, but she went deaf years ago (After her vaccines. She always spikes a fever each year, but this time she went deaf. Vet said it happened to his small dog too. “Hears in mo day, deaf on Tuesday”. I felt better hearing it bc she was in clomid flea pills and I had worried maybe it wasn’t so safe.

She was a very alert dog, good listener, sensitive to every sound, so afterward, she was a more calm dog that no longer barked at the coffee pot or the damn blender (we knew immediately lol).. And also didn’t mind the vacuum and could sleep (she was such a light sleeper from any sound).

Anyways, back to present.
The same day she went blind, she was rushed to vet who then had us rush her to an opthamologist.
Who confirmed she was blind. They spent 45 mins to hour with her and adored her. They did light tests which showed little to no response, obviously she didn’t respond to movement of any type either).

for the UTI, the Baytril made her sick. Her eyes were also so dilated and I thought Zenequin killed her bc she slept a solid day and was in deep sleep. Her eyes were so dilated.

She was eating ravenously.
I took videos because I’ve never seen anything like it! She’s always been a picky eater and eaten one meal a day and it takes bribery to get in a second. (She’s always been lean).
She was inhaling dog food like she had never seen it.

She developed A few weird “breathing fits” (no air going in and none coming out) which I took a video of (I thought it was related to Denamarin or Ocuglo we had started her on?).
We raced her to vet bc we thought she was dying from inhaling a leaf (as she was now eating EVERYTHING, like a goat). But the breathing fit ended before we got there, and The vet said looking at her right now (she was excited about another dog in the waiting room) she was fine on presentation, so he would not doing anything bc there were no symptoms (he didn’t do anything but look at her 3 secs just enough to say that to me- but we did rush in and he’s always busy).
Or the breathing fit was brought on from drinking chicken broth (The “dementia” that was developing seemed to now make her not want to drink water, she wouldn’t touch water bowl which was odd. (fortunately she now laps it up again).

She started peeing every hour in her sleep And outside.
Then, she was walking around like a zombie that didn’t sleep for 7 days and thrashing about and running into everything like a high powered lunatic. I cried.
I took her on walks/runs six times around block which she LOVED (only time my ‘old’ dog came back). I was trying to help her sleep at night, because at night we ran laps around back yard and inside she was running into everything (note: I have padded a lot of the house).

Covid was happening at this time, and I was pretty much screwed.
I found melatonin in my medicine cabinet and finally we were getting sleep at night.

The eyes were so dilated it scared me.

Over next 2 months:
Her UTI hadn’t responded to 10 days of amox clauv. She was peeing all over. Back legs were getting so weak. She stumbled over everything and fell randomly while standinf or walking in house, about every 10 seconds. So sad! I don’t know how a person can cry this much but my eyes now had rashes underneath from tears.
every morning when I held her, and on our walks I saw my baby and she was so strong and happy in these walks (I took videos- so happy and darling and fast!).

So now, we tried selegiline for cognitive decline, bc she was getting stuck in corners and ‘sun downing’ ( happening too fast), but she had every symptom. After 2 weeks she was so lethargic on it and slept most of the time, and the vet didn’t take her blood pressure bc they didn’t have working equipment and her urine protein was high- I couldn’t risk this drug having a side effect of ruining her kidneys! we stopped.

Her liver enzymes and triglycerides were high (Last 2 years I found out) , so a friend suggested I put it on a liver diet.
I also couldn’t get food and essentials because of Covid.
I was pretty much stuck with staples in my pantry of rice, pasta, yogurt. It was awful.
She lost a lot of weight on this diet, and the crazy thing is her eyes were no longer dilated, and she actually could see! I WAS OVER THE MOON IN JOY!
She was following me from several feet away, and acting coordinated.

But she was getting oh so skinny and frail, and her legs were getting even weak, and her midsection and ribs were puffy. Because her liver enzymes and fats were high, a friend suggested I put her on a liver diet. I also couldn’t get food because of Covid. I was pretty much stuck with staples in my pantry of rice, pasta, yogurt. It was awful. She lost a lot of weight on this diet, and the crazy thing is her eyes were no longer dilated, and she actually could see! She was following and acting coordinated. (I think I even have a video of this). She could navigate house perfectly! I cried tears of joy and my heart was so fulfilled.
But she was so skinny, and her legs were getting so weak, and her midsection was puffy. I felt her little doggy bones above tail sticking out.
Finally New dog food came! (Hills Liver care). she was thrilled to see it and gobbled it up. (She was ok ch one and rice/sweet potato before this and Purina dog food)

It was a few days later she plumped back up and lost vision again (but she felt more sturdy and strong) and became more uncoordinated and lost her balance again. Sadness :(


sometimes I wonder if because she lost all that weight, it decompressed a tumor pressing on nerve? Or I wonder if it’s some type of cyst pressing on her optic nerve? She sneezes a bit more now but it’s also allergy season which is horrible for all here.

(Although, She had been back at vet (I took any and all apts I could get) and I mentioned a lump on the top of her head, but she’s had for a couple months. We went to do a biopsy, and he told me to his surprise, it drained! No cancer like we all feared. And no more gross thing on her beautiful head. She was seeing around this same time (on diet that was not ideal) so maybe I thought the cyst had pressed on something.

But alas, she’s back to blind (see below) :(.

She had started to lose hair now above her tail.

The next vet apt I made a list of all that was wrong. I was no longer myself and falling apart. my brain couldn’t accept this.

My family tried telling me “It’s just old age“ but my brain SCREAMED, “you don’t age in 24 hours!”.

The vet did physical and came back, “We have a major problem. Your dog may have lung cancer. She is having a major coughing fit and it’s SEVERE.” I told him the coughing was impossible. She had not coughed in years besides an asthma attack (that wasn’t a cough)
He left saying it was grim. I sunk down feeling dizzy. I thought she would die right there.

On her chart that he has, I reminded him of her narrow trachea and xrays they took. (she was given onne shot years ago and we has no problems since! She runs everyday).

(Note: except for the 2 current breathing fits that were NOT a cough but more like rapid asthma? I have video if anyone interested?)

He came back out and my dog was apparently ok now.

I asked what happened, if someone hadn’t handled her correctly (he had new staff and they almost dropped her and grabbed her by the head from the car..)

He said during the physical he “induced a cough” which is routine and necessary (I had no idea).
And she coughed horribly. We had to have xrays.
The xrays were clear thank you lord.

Then, he said “I noticed she is developing cataracts. If you notice her vision is affected in future we need to talk about cataract removal”

I said “You do know my dog is blind right?? I told the girls several times and they wrote it down and it’s included in the note”
“No. I had no idea.” He said.

Anyways, he mentioned Looking at her blood test, he thought she had Cushing’s disease and wanted her tested. We did the test and it’s positive. In two weeks, she no longer has dementia, She is not falling down and she’s aware of who I am at all times.
The biggest moment came a couple days ago, she just “scooted back” and is so proud of herself (I took a video). she continued to “practice” and now giving eye drops or pills is a little more difficult but I am so happy for her! I can sleep a little now knowing she won’t be in a corner stuck.

She still has trouble sleeping at night When Med wears off, but if I give her the 10 mg trouble staying in the evening she sleeps all night. Solooking at her blood test, he thought she had Cushing’s disease and wanted her tested. We did the test and it’s positive. In two weeks, she no longer has dementia, and she’s aware of who I am at all times. She still has trouble sleeping at night, but if I give her the 10 mg trusting in the evening she sleeps all night. it’s timing.

The first week of bad was great, no side effects. But by day 7 to 10 we had shaking that turned into TREMBLING.. I have been so scared. I realize that happen 30 minutes within giving denimarin. So we stopped. Since this blindness has happened, what I’ve noticed is she cannot handle stress at all. When I give her a bath, She also does this trembling and it’s like “fight or flight”

She used to roll around on the towel and let me blow her dry. Now she PANICS! She is like a trotting horse and can’t sit still and her heart races. Bath time is TORTURE.

Each day is something different for the last 3 months.

On the positive,
She is no longer peeing all over herself every hour! She can hold it now for 5-6 hours.

Our urinalysis, after 3 weeks looks much better. She still has bacteria in urine but her protein is lower, and this time in 5 months is the first time she had NO white blood cells or red blood cells! Microalbumin has gone from 10 to 4.5! her blood pressure average was 140/160 (as long as it’s under 170 we are safe).

Anyways, I wish I had found the support group sooner. I’ve felt very alone.

I was hoping some of you guys could look at her bloodwork or if I could email it? Is there a way to post the picture? I’m having some horrible hand inflammation and Voice to text doesn’t seem to copy lab values.

We started low-dose 10 mg, bjt she gets milk thistle and a few other things I added like vitamin e + fish oil, etc...

I just had the ATCH test and I worry about one of the values... it seems too low after 4-5 hours...
Anyways, have you guys heard of a dog going blind overnight from Cushings?

can she still take milk thistle if I give it 12 hours apart?

Her triglycerides were normal after a couple weeks of milk thistle/Denamarin, and the liver enzymes had lowered a little bit.

But I worry it will interfere with medication.

Also, I want to do another post on the possible risk of me giving heart guard again?
I know it was just coincidental with the blindness And cognitive issues,.
But my gut says ’don’t give it to her.’ Something bad will happen to her delicate blood brain barrier.

I also have a horrible fear of heart worms.

So I went and got interceptor.

But it says it can cause ataxia.

I’m so afraid.

[LtlBtyRam]

I am so sorry you are in such a state of unknowing and panic. I have never done much with voice to text, so I can't advise you there. The only way to get pictures that I know of is to make an album in your profile area and post them there. About the heart guard, I say follow your gut. You know your furbaby best. I hope those with more extensive knowledge have options for you regarding the heartworms. I can empathize with you about emergencies and the love we have for these beings which rely on use for their care. I still can't entertain the idea of getting another dog and mine has been gone for a little over 4 years, although everyone is different. I know you love her and want the best. Hang in there, you are not alone.
Angela

[Remy’s Mom]

You definitely have your hands full and I can understand how emotionally stressful it is. I’ve dealt with a number of very similar issues. My dog Angel has a history of elevated liver enzymes, Globulin and Total Protein. The internist we went to wound up selecting Sentinel. Living in Louisiana heart worms are a serious problem so I have to keep her on something. He was looking for something with the least combinations of drugs to keep it simple.

As for Ginger’s vision, diabetes can cause sudden blindness BUT so can high blood pressure. It causes the retinas to detach. Its easy to miss if there is not regular blood pressure monitoring. I had another little poodle who was on blood pressure meds. I thought they were monitoring it when she had her semi annual physicals and blood work. She developed kidney failure and again, they SHOULD have monitored blood pressure closely. Instead my complaints about her apparent blindness were attributed to thick cataracts. Got her to an ophthamologist and she immediately saw the detached retinas and checked her blood pressure which was over 220. Sometimes the retinas will reattach but unfortunately in our case, they did not. And it is a big adjustment for them to be suddenly blind. I am a big proponent of regular blood pressure monitoring in senior dogs and especially if there are aging kidneys. I do see your dog is running between 140-160 which is generally safe but they can get spikes at times and it is simply one of those things that is important to monitor and adjust their medication if necessary.

Your dog is deaf and now blind so she has lost two critical senses.That said, scent is extremely important and they actually do quite well using scent to find their way around. I can understand why a bath or the dryer would frighten a dog who can no longer hear or see. The dryer especially can frighten them . She will need patience and lots of soothing during the process. Slowly introduce the dryer. I’d try to keep it away so she only feels a gentle breeze from it at first. She can’t hear you talking to her or see or what is happening so you will have to try to communicate with her by touch. IF for some reason she loses her sense of smell or something changes the scents she uses as cues, such as new garden mulch which may cover up the old scents she has become used to, she might seem totally confused. Their sense of smell is so much greater than ours and things we wouldn’t even notice may have considerable affect on our furkid’s ability to scent.

I know emotionally it takes a toll trying to always be aware, to be observant and in tune with our baby so we notice when something is off. Its exhausting and having the COVID-19 outbreak has complicated things especially since we are not allowed to accompany our pet into the treatment areas.

Oh and one other thing, you mentioned a large growth on your dog’s head that apparently was a cyst. Growths are scary and some dogs get a lot of them. My poodles always seem to have weird growths, fluid filled blisters (some can get very large) things that look like growths but turn out to be cysts. We’ve had some hard growths that don’t seem like cysts and the vet goes to aspirate some cells and poof, it drains and is gone. So don’t panic, but do keep track of them and have them looked at just in case. Especially in a dog with somewhat compromised immunity (as we often see in senior dogs) those growths start coming fast and furious sometimes. I probably tend to overreact but the moment I see something that I know is not the typical variety for her we get it looked it just in case.

UTIs can be stubborn and very difficult. Some bacteria becomes resistant to antibiotics. I also learned that sometimes a different drug within the same recommended ‘family’ simply gets a better result in a particular dog. Or the addition of a second antibiotic may help prevent the bacteria from becoming resistant to a particular drug. Obviously how your dog reacts to a drug is important and the drug of choice may not be something your dog will tolerate.

My dogs are on Denamarin and I really don’t know how much it helps but we do give it. Like you, I have a dog with a number of issues and her case is rather complex especially liver issues. Her liver is abnormal and we never know how she will react to a particular drug. Some will send her liver enzymes soaring even though it is a drug that doesn’t typicallly do that. It makes it hard to know if we are dealing with a true liver issue or just her bizarre reaction to things.

BTW, do you see an Internal Medicine specialist or a regular vet? Nothing in the world against the regular, primary care vet. But sometimes it is important to find a really good internist for the complex and multiple issue pups. Especially I believe if they are seniors because it’s so easy to just attribute everything to their age. Or they might act like ‘well she/he’s 15 or 16 what do you expect?” Well, I expect the best quality of life I can give. I was fortunate to have a wonderful internist (until he moved far away unfortunately) who had a real affinity for the older ones and he worked hard to really look into things and help give them good quality of life.

Good luck with your precious furkid! I’m the pot calling the kettle black telling someone to stay calm but yes, you have to try. Information is power. The more you learn the more you can help your baby. I always figure the vet has hundreds of patients. I have MY baby and I’m going to learn all I can to make sure she’s getting the best care.And when it comes to Cushings there is no better place than here with these wonderful people!!


Claire

[labblab]

Hello and welcome to you and your little girl. Gosh, it sounds like you two have really been through a nightmare of problems — I’m so sorry! There have been so many issues involved that it will take some time and thought to try to address them all. I’m so glad that Angela and Claire have already had the chance to reply to you, and right now, I only have a little bit to add. But in answer to your primary question, as Claire has explained, Cushing’s can cause high blood pressure and that, in turn, can cause retinal damage severe enough to cause blindness. However, your description of your girl’s sudden loss of sight makes me think of another possibility.

As soon as you mentioned sudden blindness, my mind turns to the possible diagnosis of SARDS. It is a syndrome of unknown origin that causes sudden blindness in dogs, along with certain other symptoms that overlap with (and can be confused for) Cushing's, including excessive thirst, urination and hunger. Like Cushing’s, SARDS may be related to abnormal levels of adrenal hormones. Some dogs with SARDS actually test positive for Cushing’s, however others do not. The possible relationship between the two conditions remains poorly understood, Here’s an article that will tell you more:

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/sudden-acquired-retinal-degeneration-syndrome-sards

Now that I’ve mentioned SARDS to you, however, here’s one big feature that makes it unlikely for your dog. SARDS causes irreversible blindness. Since you say your girl’s sight has bern coming and going, this basically rules out SARDS. Also, the ophthalmologist ought to have been able to diagnose this condition, as well as the actual likely cause of the initial blindness. Can you find out what actual diagnosis was given after her examination?

Leaping forward, though, it sounds as though you’ve been giving her Vetoryl (Trilostane) to treat Cushing’s, and you’ve actually seen improvement. But as you’ve noted, we’ll really want to know what the results were for this recent ACTH monitoring testing. The result should be in the form of two numbers: her baseline cortisol level, and then a second cortisol level taken an hour later, after a stimulating agent has been injected. At a minimum, if you could just type those two numbers in a reply, that would be a big help. As far as earlier tests, all we really need to see are just any abnormal values on any of the panels — the whole list of results are not necessary. So maybe you can just type those in, too. If not, as Angela suggested, if you can take a photo of the lab results, you can then create a photo album here and upload the image.

I’m going to stop for now. As I say, there’s a lot to think over. But in the meantime, once again, we’re very glad you’ve found us.

Marianne

[SassyTerrier]

Hi Claire,

That’s a good point.

I wonder if this is why she gets extra worked up when I wash the linen, because her scent is gone?
And that’s how she locates her room for comfort?

She has a terrible time smelling and locating things (so odd! Happened right before the blindness.)
but she can now smell “something is there”.
(she has no problem locating another dog’s pee/poop or dried up earthworms (yay... lol... gross)

I’m looking into “dog scents” because maybe I can put a scent in each area to help her navigate.

She spends hours and hours rubbing on things and digging on her linen.

I started using sent-free detergent because it seems to help her settle down faster.

I am sad inside.

Dammit, why the eyes?! More than anything I want to give her vision back.

She is a busy bee. This week temp went up to 86-90 F with humidity. No daytime walk activity. I have no idea what to do for activities. No interest in playing with all her ‘babies’/stuffed animals.
(She greeted me everyday with her toy ��).

She whimpers and paces the door for walks bc that has been our schedule. She does not forget our schedule lol.
She is so bored and doesn’t understand why I’m such a mean mommy and not taking her :(

Or why she can’t have her favorite dog food.

She trots down the hallway and flips out with joy when she realizes finally we are going (she is not graceful without eye sight though... I panicking as she bills her head bc she’s too excited).

I am looking at pet halos but the bills are scaring me. She is worth every cent though.

I printed out the info for “cost savings” for my vet, he wasn’t happy and lectured me about how much risk and trouble he could get in by inspectors for having vials in the freezer of ACTH (I hadn’t thought of that).

I have only taken her to a vet, not an internist as I didn’t know what that was, or I wish I had spent the money there instead of at the vet.

He didn’t mention ‘an internist’ to me until after we had run many many tests.
(Before this, I didn’t know dog ophthalmologist or internists existed). Yesterday, when I asked about the cost savings he mention to me maybe an internist might be able to but not him.


Is your dog taking both Vetoryl and Denamarin?

I gave her the lowest dose of Denamarin yesterday and the shaking seemed to intensify by the next morning. I held off on the vetoryl for a few hours to be safe. (I offer her food and she is always ready to eat on the positive).
she looked better today after it passed. The swelling in her rib cage area (is that the liver or stomach area?) shrinks down quite a bit with it!

I have the small one but she’s suppose to be on medium size Denamarin.

What time do you give the dog vetoryl and Denamarin?


(I wanted to use plain milk thistle as she didn’t seem to shake from what I remember, but the vet also said “milk thistle alone will not work, had to have the Sam-E)

I noticed before she was blind platelets were slightly elevated.

Looking at medical journals, it mentions infections can elevate platelets (from the blood marrow). Cushings babies can have hyper-coagulability and are at risk for embolisms/blood clots. I didn’t know this.

Is that what could potentially make them go blind? a micro clot in a blood vessel or the eye?

And is there anything we can do about preventing clots forming in Cushing dogs?

I wish I had money to take her to a holistic vet to work alongside her vet.

I have no idea what diet is best. What supplements she may need more or less of.

My brain spins.
My heart races.

There’s beautiful moments too I relish in, like our walks when we both clear our heads and seeing her frolic all happy, makes my heart beam.

I love what you said about the vet having hundreds of patients, but we have one baby. We know them best.

I am very glad to find this forum.

Still in shock. Didn’t have time to adjust bc one day she acted like a puppy, and the next not.

Thank you for your support.

[SassyTerrier]

Thank you Angela,
good advice.

I am still searching the internet for a solution on safer Heartguard.

I feel nauseated thinking about giving it to her if I poison her system with it.

I face the risk of heart worms which would kill her if she got them.
Or a risk of euthanasia if the Heartguard damages her CNS.
Unknown is so scary.

[Remy’s Mom]

I know it’s pretty overwhelming. No, not just ‘pretty’ overwhelming, it IS totally overwhelming. I’m not really one of the Cushing experts here. I have a Bichon recently diagnosed and he gets 10 mg. Vetoryl once a day. We were giving it in the morning but he doesn’t eat as consistently as evening so switching to evening. Rose going blind for something that would have been avoidable had her blood pressure been better monitored was devastating to me. The sad part is I had just made the connection between kidney failure, high blood pressure and blindness and was headed to the opthamologist when my vet called with blood work results on the other dog. While on the phone I asked him about her dose of medication and he said. Yeah we should probably double it. I get to the ophthamologist and right away she detects blood behind the eye and the detached retinas. He had been seeing her for several weeks about loss of vision. Had he caught it sooner she likely would not have wound up blind. And it can be very difficult for them to adjust. Broke my heart. Do try using scents to help your dog find her way around. I always wore the same perfume to help her ‘find’ me. Angel, who has the liver issues as well as bladder cancer, has been on Sentinel for heartworms. It kills heartworms and I think has similar ingredients to Interceptor. Internist said use the medication with the simplest components for her. I’m in Louisiana where heartworms is a big problem and never had a problem. They don’t seem to bother her but of course, all dogs are different. I always used Heartguard before. Still do for the Cushings dog. Both my dogs are on Denamarin. The small and the medium size. Haven’t had any issues using it. I’m not sure it would cause trembling or shaking but every dog is different.

You might try getting a little cap with a visor to help keep your pet from bumping into things. Just a simple doggie baseball cap might help alert her to the presence of an object when the visor touches it. I had one for my Amanda who was profoundly blind. There are doggie halos too made especially for that purpose.
These days there are all sorts of specialists. I don’t know where you are located but if there is a College of Veterinary medicine you might be able to get a little better price. If you already have a lot of test results the internist can use them. Likely would want to do his/her own ultrasound though. Platelets go up and down. Hard to say the cause in your particular case. If you can manage it definitely try to get a consult with an Internist. Complicated cases really need someone who specializes. Meanwhile try not to stress too much. You have to stay healthy to be able to help your baby. I know that’s easier said than done.
I know everyone here is going to be pulling for you.

[SassyTerrier]

Hi Marianne,

I took my doggy in the day she went blind. My dog did not respond to her light tests and exam. They spend a long time with her (almost an hour in the back room with her - this was right before covid.

It may have been too early.

I’d go back now but walking in was not cheap.

She did confirm blindness saying very little activity.

I can certainly call and ask for her diagnosis.

I was suppose to get a print out and differential diagnosis but I left with just a bill and paperwork on how to care for a blind dog (I.e. always supervise, cover any pools or dangerous stairs (I don’t have any but I did appreciate the print out).
She told me my dog was happy and plenty of dogs live good lives and that she would adapt.
(she was still smiley at this point)

The opthamologist did want to run another test ($500) but it would not bring back her vision.

She said, if needed it would allow her to give a referral for a a neurologist and that would be next step, getting an MRI and CSF fluid (which I can not afford here) and if it were a tumor pressing on optic nerve then she said a neurologist would likely treat that with radiation to shrink it. Which she said my dog was healthy and a good candidate if that were the case (which I didn’t know how bc doesn’t that require a lot of anesthesia?)
I did ask if I could just go to the neurologist for an MRI, and she said no. First they needed to do the eye exam.

My dog has not had any vision for the last 3-4 weeks. I had a huge glimmer of some hope that she was seeing several weeks ago, when she lost all the weight, but right now there isn’t any vision.

She feels noticeable lighter during the day when I give her the Vetoryl. Her appetite is still good but she isn’t begging. But she does shake About 4 hours after (I feed her at this time again, just incase it’s low blood sugar? Or bc the vet said the minutes she doesn’t want food, we are in trouble. So this is something He said I am to always watch for. And I do.

12 hours after the med at night time she is ravenous.
She hovers the kitchen and licks the floors all night for food. I can’t eat knowing she is hungry and she knows and races to kitchen if I have even a cracker in my mouth.

I’ve added in veggies ( broccoli, green beans, cucumber, carrot, apple) to help, but she is so hungry :(
I give her 3 smaller dinners instead of big meal. But then she feels so much more heavy. She is drinking a lot again too evenings (large amounts at once. I don’t take water away ever, but I wondered today if like food, she needs help monitoring or pacing herself with water.

I had asked about splitting her dose so it would be more smooth: 5 mg in morning and 5 mg at night bc this Med is up and down. And the vet said no.
He said she is on the correct dose (10 mg). We just had bloodwork.

I did ask if I could give her the Med at night (I have not slept much in months) and he said yes.

I have been giving it in the morning because it makes her sleep a few hours which helps her get through very hot afternoons where she can’t be on walks or outdoors.
She does not understand why our consistent walking schedule has changed.

I am glad I pressed again for blood pressure check. He said as long as it stays under 170 she will be ok.
I do wish I had my own device to take her blood pressure bc she gets so stressed sometimes.

Im concerned because when he called me with results he said “ Blood pressure is very difficult to take in dogs. They struggle to move around, and we have to restrain their legs and take it six times to get an average reading.“

I noticed today one of her legs did something weird. It was under her body and she wasn’t aware of its location.
I wipe her feet off everyday and check her reflexes (I lightly tap toes and 2 other parts of each leg to make sure she responds and she does). But one leg didn’t.

I’m so freaked out.

She was tilting to one side.
Her energy is fine, but I feel it would be best to keep her in a cage until this gets better but she would die from stress as she’s a busy body.

I’m praying this gets better. The legs feel good but now I’m regretting letting anyone handle her.

I have not been able to restrain her and put her on her side, so I have no idea how the staff managed that.

Her leg looked like it was tilting to one side.

I will be praying all night this is a temporary sprain. Bc I can not afford another vet bill and I don’t want her to have any issues.


I really appreciate all the help and support,

(I myself feel like I may have high blood pressure).

I Will type out the blood work. (I have pictures of it)
Let me work on that right now

[SassyTerrier]

That is heartbreaking about your Rose.
There’s so many things we wish we knew, or replay in our minds. I barely catch my breathe most days. Just need a pause button.

The baseball cap is a great idea. I’ll see if I can find a small one.

I know it doesn’t help, but I’m trying to figure out if I need sunglasses for her eyes. But they look uncomfortable.

I want to make a lightweight UV sunshield for her when we go outside. I’ve been trying to use an umbrella to shade her, but I have to have her walk several feet ahead of me (bc she is fast and can dart back the second she gets a wiff of another doggy, and I cannot risk her getting under my foot. I would hate myself if I accidentally stepped on her).

[SassyTerrier]

Sentinel is sounding like a good idea.

Dang. I just bought 6 months of interceptor and then at vet I got several months of Heartguard bc the vet assured me there were no side effects and Heartguard was extremely safe. (I wasn’t going to use both. I decided on interceptor and he then told me heart guard was safe and to use that so I got that instead other day for him.)

[Remy’s Mom]

I think interceptor and Sentinel are Essentially the same drug.

[Remy’s Mom]

PetSmart should have little caps. They have a little Velcro strap under the chin to hold it on. There’s a protective visor called Optivisor. Amazon carries them. Not really expensive maybe $30. I used them on my kids after cataract surgery because the cones were so big. They really didn’t seem to mind them. Don’t know about the sun glasses. I’ve never had any luck getting mine to wear them.

[SassyTerrier]

The first test for Cushing’s was dex test:

Cortisol sample time 1 9:15 am
8.5 (High) ...(reference range: 1.0-5.0 ug/dL)

Cortisol sample time 2 1:15 PM
2.4 (High) ...(reference range: 0.0-1.4 ug/dL)

Cortisol sample time 3 5:15 PM
5.7 (High) ...(reference range: 0.0-1.4 ug/dL)



ACTH test:
(she took 10 mg Vetoryl pill at 8:50 am on empty stomach as vet suggested. (I had to give her a small bit of food to make sure it didn’t stay stuck in her throat though)

Time 1 11:10 am
Cortisol sample 1: result = 3.9 ...(reference range 1.0-5.0 ug/dL)

Time 2 12:10
Cortisol sample 2: result = 7.4 (low) ...(reference range 8.0-17.0 ug/dL)






And then I have a new urinalysis

pH: 5.5 (previous, it was 8.5 last time)

Protein: 1+ High. (It was 2+ High last time)

Bacteria: COCCI and RODS 26-50 (High)

‘Note: want to make a population of bacteria is identified using right stain, organisms appearing as Cocci may be Cocco-bacilli (very short rides). Culture is a preferred test for verifying viable bacteriuria.’

(Previously, she had “Rods 100 (High).”)

Urine microalbumin canine reflex:

Microalbuminuria: 4.6 (High) ...(reference range < 2.5 mg/dL)

(Previously, “microalbumin 10.0”)

She Peed on herself other night which was one reason I asked for a culture.
I was sad with myself. I set an alarm to get her out every 4-5 hours (this is a huge improvement considering it used to be every 45 mins-1 hour) so she can go, but I had fallen asleep and slept through alarm.

Nights before when I had forgotten, she actually woke up and came to get me <3


I have added in low dose cranberry the last couple weeks bc when we took her to the vet for UTI, they had forgotten to get a sample (she was going to have the needle test). I wasn’t able to get an appointment so had anxiety that the bacteria would destroy her kidneys so did what I could. The vet, calmed my fears by telling me most older dogs are incontinent so not to worry.

I thought they were doing a culture this time, but it was a free catch
(considering she came out of the vets office looking sweaty, hot, and miserable, with no smile, I thought for sure they did).

She has always comes out of vets perky and happy even last time, bc she gets to sense other doggies.

So seeing her little face so sad and she felt so hot to the touch, made me feel bad she had a rough day.

I put her in the AC, had her emergency dinner and water (... she never has eaten or drunk water in the car before (too exciting for her)...
but I pack it just in case.

she drank a big bowl of water and some kibble.
I promised her a nice evening walk later on and we ‘sensed’ big dogs and she was overly filled with joy and the sweet smile came back after that.

[SassyTerrier]

I had been wondering if the optivizor actually worked! It looked heavy in pics. So I am glad to know it works! Thank you!

[Remy’s Mom]

They’re not as heavy as they look. I found they run a bit large. I bought two and returned the one that was too big. I also,found they have a tendency to drop forward. That was easily resolved with a narrow strap i found with Velcro which I looped around my dogs harness and then around the neck band of the optivisor. That kept it where I wanted it. They also make a narrower Cone type protector. I used the optivisor twice with good results thru their cataract surgeries.

[SassyTerrier]

Also, the reason he ran the Cushings test was because of obvious physical symptoms, and she had a high ALK phos, ALT, and triglycerides despite running everyday and a chicken and rice diet that didn’t bring it down. (Denamarin normalized the triglycerides and had begun to lower Alk & alt a little:

(ALK: 700 to 623;
ALT (SGPT) went from 421 to 122* (normal is below 118)

But we began to see changes in normal BUN and creatinine and then magnesium was elevated (mag was 3.1...normal is under 2.6), but he told me still not terrible, but it freaked me out bc it’s always been normal.

She will be put her on Hills kidney diet dog food when the current bag runs out (Currently I ordered hills liver care bc we didn’t know what I was treating before Cushings.
I do add in a little fresh chicken breast meat, 1 tsp yogurt for calcium, steamed veggies and rice (her kidney values changed/slightly elevated when I had lowered protein... she is also active)
I use dog food to help fill in nutritional gaps a home diet could miss.
And I just started high quality fish oil, vit e, cranberry (I give 1/6th human dose), and probiotic (Culturelle).

I’ll take any suggestions on what else I could do or any immune boosting supplements.

I wanted to add in mushroom extract but then thought what if these kids get a fungi infection from it? I know it’s healthy but wasn’t sure?

Also, has anyone here given their dog quercetin?
I did a search on Cushing’s disease, and found that so many people have dogs that also get sarcoma. sent my spiraling.

Quercetin is suppose to be anti-cancer/prevention, but I didn’t want to overdo anything.

[LtlBtyRam]

Unrelated to Cushing's but we give our dog Quercitin. I didn't know it was an anti-Cancer/prevention, we give it to her for allergies.

[SassyTerrier]

Which one do you use?

Human supplements sound so much more clean then the dog versions and half the cost!

But my vet said human supplements can’t be trusted because you don’t know what’s in the actual product as companies can say anything is in it and lie.

[LtlBtyRam]

A lot of the human ones have formulas and I don't trust those since I don't know all of the parts. We have been using Solaray Quercitin Non Citrus.

[SassyTerrier]

So her right leg hasn’t been right since the vet apt.
It hasn’t done this before.

Does anyone know what leg they do bloodwork on?
And also, what leg they take blood pressure from or is it all of them?
Do they record which leg they use?

She had her ACTH test tues (19th) and Wednesday woke up with her leg and I think hip (?) doing something weird and it looks ‘out of place’... like when I look at her straight ahead, the left leg has it’s normal muscle bulge, but the right leg and looks out of place.
They are not even anymore.

I feel so awful for asking them to do a blood pressure reading on her.
I had no idea what it involved or that “the dog struggles” as he said afterward when he called me. :(

What do I say when I call the vet in morning? (I feel a bit intimidated by him).

She still demanded a walk and I did not want her on the leg but she also has daily temper tantrum like a 3 year old, so ‘no’ wasn’t an option.

I’m wondering if the upper leg/hip socket is out of place? Can that happen?

[Remy’s Mom]

They usually take blood pressure on a forelimb. The cuff goes between the elbow and the ankle. It is certainly possible that somewhere along the line she has dislocated her hip but that would be extremely painful. I don’t know how your vet does it but most of the vets I’ve used take blood from the jugular in the neck. I believe they do record which leg they used but again, it depends upon Your vet’s policy. By all means don’t hesitate to tell him if she’s having difficulty walking. No reason you should feel intimidated. This is YOUR baby and you just want what’s best for her.

[Harley PoMMom]

I would definitely tell the vet about her right leg issue. Also, I would have an urine culture and sensitivity test performed on her urine especially since bacteria was found in her sample.

This is very important, she has to have her Vetoryl with a meal, Vetoryl is a fat-soluble drug and must be given with food in order to be absorbed. If you fast your dog overnight and do the ACTH stimulation test the next morning after you give the medicine without a meal, the test is meaningless.

I am sorry that your precious girl is having difficulties and hopefully she'll get these issues resolved soon.

Hugs, Lori

[SassyTerrier]

It turns out my dog is 11 lbs not 14 as I thought.

The receptionist told me the vet was booked solid for two weeks. I sent the vet a picture and a video of what was going on with my dog because something is very wrong. He said to get her in, thank goodness.

Today, she was diagnosed with a herniated disc.
There was no x-ray, and he took her in back.

I am very confused, because both legs “swivel” as if they are not attached and rotate,
one leg looks uneven and it is in A NEW PLACE.
She does “splits” now with back legs and it is FREAKY.

I want to trust my vet, but I’m upset that he was so confident and did not take an x-ray.

I have so much guilt I put my dog through this blood pressure test, I thought it would be harmless and that I was being proactive. It is taken with a Doppler and done 6 times to get an average.

Before this, he did not have the equipment to take blood pressure as he said his was broken.


I am so sad. She cannot go for walks for 6 weeks at least and this is a sassy little dog who REQUIRES 6 laps around the block everyday rain or shine. She lives for it! And it’s so freeing to her as she doesn’t have to hit her head or her confused. Even at her worst, she got up for her walks and always felt 100x better during.

She races to the door overly excitement. There is not a person in the world who could say no to her. Even if I’m sick, I have no choice. Lol.

I can’t believe it. A blind and deaf and a lone dog, (whose favorite activity (and only activity) is taken away.
I worry she can’t handle the stress of this :( and will she lose her beautiful muscle tone? Walking has kept her heart in amazing shape at 15.

What am I suppose to do??

She paced each room of the house tonight for hours walking back to the front door, thinking she could trick me, even after I gave her the muscle relaxer. (The vetoryl did not work to settle her down for hours - usually she is out cold in an hour).

She is sleeping right now next to my bed, but I know morning will be another day of watching her anxiety and pacing the front door and whimpering.

[SassyTerrier]

So,

If anyone here has a dog with hip or disk issues, or knows of a reputable forum that may help with expert or pet parent advice, and I can send a video too, please let me know.

I need some type of reassurance that he got this diagnosis right. Forgive my ignorance on this topic.
I shouldn’t doubt him.

It’s just that I have never seen something like this before.
Her alignment is so different then the day before.

I have bad feeling she was dropped by new staff. She is STRONG WILLED like an ox (I’m not kidding- she is determined, as it’s her personality and part breed- they stop at nothing!)

and bc she is blind she does not go down easy (apparently it’s a fear of predation. For instance, the day she went blind, she no longer leisurely lays on her side or with her tummy facing up in the air; its too vulnerable.

There is no way I would be able to turn her on her side. So when he said “struggles” I knew what he meant.


Most upsetting, I mentioned to the tech and vet what he said to me about the difficulty and struggle.
She said “well, there is no mention on her chart of any struggle or fall during the exam. I will talk to vet”.

She left to go talk to him and he came back to the room we were in and changed the story today.

He said “no struggle, it’s easy”

NO! He did NOT SAY this.

Wtf.

[SassyTerrier]

I would definitely tell the vet about her right leg issue. Also, I would have an urine culture and sensitivity test performed on her urine especially since bacteria was found in her sample.

This is very important, she has to have her Vetoryl with a meal, Vetoryl is a fat-soluble drug and must be given with food in order to be absorbed. If you fast your dog overnight and do the ACTH stimulation test the next morning after you give the medicine without a meal, the test is meaningless.

I am sorry that your precious girl is having difficulties and hopefully she'll get these issues resolved soon.

Hugs, Lori

Hi Lori,

I asked about a culture (it involves a needle in her bladder, correct?)
He said it wasn’t needed as her WBC is negative.

I am a little worried about the bacteria.
I did ask him twice.

I end up feeling really stupid if I have questions when I go to the vet.

I have been giving cranberry once a day and ordered “Crananadin” (was trying to find the best one, but wasn’t sure if cranberry was cranberry or this pet product was actually worth it?). I looked it up and asked him if I could add it and he said “yes”.
But said “no” on tumeric.

For the Disc issue, she was prescribed an NSAID, Rimadyl, to get inflammation and swelling down. I reminded him she almost died some years ago after the first dose and he replied, “well it’s not in her chart” :( but I know he said back then, “we will make sure it’s on her chart so she does not receive this medication again.” (I kept the bottle and wrote “toxic- never give” and am so glad I did!

I left with muscle relaxer and pain killer, but he had no other suggestion as to what to give for inflammation.
She hasn’t yet reacted to natural things... however I’m scared of adding Boswellia as I’m not sure it’s safe or well-tested on dogs.

Wishing I had spent the money on a holistic vet.

[LtlBtyRam]

My heart aches for your struggles. Don't feel stupid about questioning the vet. We all do it. It is the only way we can advocate for our furkids. It might be time to get a second opinion, or talk to a specialist. I wish I had more and better guidance.
Angela

[SassyTerrier]

Thank you Angela. Appreciate the kindness on the forums <3

[SassyTerrier]

Does anyone know if CBD oil actually works as an effective anti-inflammatory?
Or is it overhyped? (I know fish oil is too, but it’s not fast acting like an NSAID, which she needs).

Looking to get this back healed ASAP.

She’s killing my heart by wobbling over to the door and pressing her body up to it as close as she can.
She is not taking this lightly...

She’s also going to be as big as a house without exercise.

[labblab]

Hello again. Honestly, at this point I really do encourage you to ask for a referral to an internal medicine specialist (“IMS”) if there is a specialty clinic or a vet school near you. There are now a number of actions by your vet that concern me. Like you, I would guess that Sassy was injured by the staff there, and if so, that is really unforgivable that they don’t come clean about it. Second, I agree with you that I can’t imagine how your vet arrived at a definitive diagnosis about her disc without any imaging. Third, as Lori pointed out earlier, Sassy’s monitoring ACTH test was invalidated by your vet’s instruction not to give her morning dose of Vetoryl with food. The maker of Vetoryl explicitly states the opposite: on testing days, the medication *must* be given with a full meal in order for the Vetoryl to be metabolized properly and the test to be accurate. And now, the issue with the Rimadyl. Again, it’s a total lapse on the part of the vet that Sassy’s bad reaction was either not noted in the first place or overlooked now. The extremely nutty par is that there several newer types of NSAIDS that carry fewer risks to the liver and kidneys (especially for a Cushing’s dog), and your vet probably ought to have prescribed one of them over Rimadyl in the first place. Since Rimadyl has been ruled out, why isn’t he prescribing one of them now??

Going back full circle, if Sassy were my own dog, I’d want a second expert opinion about all of this. CBD oil may indeed be helpful for her — I’m currently giving it to my own elderly dog in conjunction with an NSAID for arthritic relief, and I do feel as though I’ve seen notable improvement in her mobility. I’ll come back later on today and add a link to some research information in that regard. But first I wanted to encourage you to get some additional guidance re: Sassy’s overall care and treatment. I know that may not be easy in the midst of the current COVID-19 restrictions, but to say that I’m underwhelmed with your current vet’s attention and expertise is putting it mildly :-((((.

Marianne

[Remy’s Mom]

Well I’ve had two dogs with herniated discs and several with IVDD (invertebral Disc Disease/Degeneation). The herniated discs happened when they jumped down off a chair. But all it takes is twisting the wrong way, something very minor to cause herniation in a senior dog. Their discs become brittle, sometimes calcified. Galliprant is a new anti-inflammatory that is not supposed to affect the liver or kidneys. That said, Angel’s liver enzymes skyrocketEd after only a few doses. Unfortunately she has numerous reactions of her liver to innocuous medications. Since your dog had a serious, even life threatening reaction to Rimadyl I don’t know that she could take galliprant either. Most of my dogs were also put on gabapentin which helps nerve pain. It’s an off market use for this drug which was originally used to control seizures. In humans it’s often referred to as “Neurontin”. We did not have any reactions to this drug and it was used in conjunction with muscle relaxers, and the galliprant (in those dogs which could take it). During the acute stage of the herniated discs one dog had a fentanyl patch for pain. The other was given buprenorphine.

As far as your vet diagnosing the herniated disc without any Xrays, he probably felt it was a logical diagnosis based on the neurological symptoms such as your dogs legs sliding apart or seemingly in weird positions. He perhaps tested for areas of pain in her neck or back, possible loss of sensation and muscle control. Xrays especially of a dog in pain would require sedation and a CT scan or MRI would require anesthesia all of which carry risks for a senior dog especially one with multiple issues. So perhaps he didn’t want to take the risk and felt this was a logical diagnosis based on clinical symptoms.

Now as far as a second opinion and thoughts on some of his other advice and diagnosis, I agree with Marianne And Angela that if you can possibly do so, find an Internal Medicine specialist either at a College of Veterinary Medicine or a specialty practice. Senior dogs with multiple issues really do require someone with special knowledge of Internal medicine and who is willing to take the time to do a thorough work up and find out what is really going on with your baby. You are already questioning if there was some event during the blood pressure taking and have had a couple of versions of that situation. Apparently it was not recorded that your dog is unable to take Rimadyl which it absolutely should have been. Several of the things he has told you seem very odd. AND you feel intimidated and unable to ask him questions which is not a good relationship to have.

Unfortunately as difficult as it is for you and for her, she will need to rest and stay quiet and let her heal. No doubt she loves her walks because there are so many wonderful smells out there and with her vision and hearing compromised scent is her primary means of sensory excitement. The extent of the herniation (IF it is in fact a herniated disc) kind of dictates how long the healing process will take but it is important that she rest and not jump up and down off furniture, steps, etc. Try to keep her back aligned and straight when you lift her.Lift the rear end and front together and try to maintain a horizontal position so nothing is pulling on her back. If she becomes incontinent or seems to be losing control of her rear end more than she already is, you need to see an orthopedist or neurologist right away. Usually the pain is self limiting and they will stay quiet but if she isn’t terribly painful and she really wants to go out as is her routine, then you are going to have give a bit of tough love and keep her quiet for a few days to give this time to resolve.

ALL this is simply MY opinion based on my own experience with my senior dogs. I don’t intend it to be medical advice. We actually had very good luck using acupuncture and laser therapy on their backs. I did acupuncture weekly, then every other week for a year on my old miniature poodle and laser therapy weekly. It seemed to really help him. So if you have a veterinary acupuncturist in your area that would certainly be another option. This is also my opinion but I would only go to someone who is a DVM and a certified acupuncturist. That way you know they are properly trained in Veterinary medicine. I know it’s a difficult time for you and it can be difficult starting over with a new vet but it really does seem a second opinion is warranted here. You have good support here from others who know how it is to love our babies so much! Wishing you well, lots of positive thoughts and prayers!! Claire

[LtlBtyRam]

I too am not a Vet and won't pretend to know what is best. All I can do is share my experiences. I have only had 4 dogs. One in childhood for a few months. The other three have all been in adulthood. All 3 have been household pets and have bonded with different household members. The first one was a Pekingese/Pomeranian mix who lived to be 11 he had back problems and an enlarged heart along with a bladder stone. The 2nd which was brought in the house not quite a year after the 1st who was all Pomeranian. She had to have both knees operated on at 9 months, her right hip shaved from hip dysplasia, and ended up with Cushing's and a liver tumor toward the end. She lived a few months past her 16th Birthday. She lived almost 3 1/2 years with Cushing's after diagnosis. She also got acupuncture every other week for about 3 years. This helped her get over an injury which I think would have been too much for her body and would have passed without it. The 3rd one is a Bichon Frise/Poodle mix (Poochon) is the only one we have in the house right now. We got her in 2011 she was 7. She is now 15 and we have some health problems going on. We have tried acupuncture with her and it just doesn't work well, she does not do well with the needles or the waiting time to remove them. We have used gabapentin for both the pom and sometimes for the Poochon. We started the Poochon on CBD to try and get her off of the gabapentin. Most of the time she does fine on just the CBD, but we have had to use the gabapentin when the CBD doesn't quite seem to be helping enough. Just make sure you get a good quality good reputation CBD oil. In some cases we have been to 3-4 vets to get the appropriate help if thought it the best scenario. Just my 2 cents, and I always ask lots of questions.
Angela

[SassyTerrier]

Thank you Angela!

I am googling cbd oil for dogs and watching YouTube videos on physical therapy/massage for dogs. I keep correcting her hind leg posture, but both back legs slide forward.
or the back legs do a split, separating out.

It is scary and I don’t know how it happens.

My poor baby. I can’t believe she got injured at the vet :(
I’m sick to my stomach that he changed his story and took no accountability.

Part of me wants and wishes they had security videos so I could see how she was handled and what happened.
I found a scab (thought it was a tick) on her lower back, which makes me think she was dropped. Or if the staff pressed too hard on her body to hold her down.

She is my inspiration. Always strong and never gives up. Still wants walks.
She doesn’t have side effects from the muscle relaxer but it also does nothing.
The tramadol makes her sleepy and it has side effects.
I’m not sure she is in pain because she doesn’t cry and still is walking around (which is also a concern bc I’m freaked out it means it’s spine or nerve damage?)
So not sure she needs the tramadol? wasn’t sure if part of the purpose of it to just make her sleepy and lay down which is what vet told me was the side effect.

[SassyTerrier]

Hello again. Honestly, at this point I really do encourage you to ask for a referral to an internal medicine specialist (“IMS”) if there is a specialty clinic or a vet school near you. There are now a number of actions by your vet that concern me. Like you, I would guess that Sassy was injured by the staff there, and if so, that is really unforgivable that they don’t come clean about it. Second, I agree with you that I can’t imagine how your vet arrived at a definitive diagnosis about her disc without any imaging. Third, as Lori pointed out earlier, Sassy’s monitoring ACTH test was invalidated by your vet’s instruction not to give her morning dose of Vetoryl with food. The maker of Vetoryl explicitly states the opposite: on testing days, the medication *must* be given with a full meal in order for the Vetoryl to be metabolized properly and the test to be accurate. And now, the issue with the Rimadyl. Again, it’s a total lapse on the part of the vet that Sassy’s bad reaction was either not noted in the first place or overlooked now. The extremely nutty par is that there several newer types of NSAIDS that carry fewer risks to the liver and kidneys (especially for a Cushing’s dog), and your vet probably ought to have prescribed one of them over Rimadyl in the first place. Since Rimadyl has been ruled out, why isn’t he prescribing one of them now??

Going back full circle, if Sassy were my own dog, I’d want a second expert opinion about all of this. CBD oil may indeed be helpful for her — I’m currently giving it to my own elderly dog in conjunction with an NSAID for arthritic relief, and I do feel as though I’ve seen notable improvement in her mobility. I’ll come back later on today and add a link to some research information in that regard. But first I wanted to encourage you to get some additional guidance re: Sassy’s overall care and treatment. I know that may not be easy in the midst of the current COVID-19 restrictions, but to say that I’m underwhelmed with your current vet’s attention and expertise is putting it mildly :-((((.

Marianne

Hello Marianne,

Omg.

You made many good points.

I will ask for a referral.

Is an internet’s going to be expensive compared to a vet?
I wish I had gone to one first instead to have the testing done, but had no idea I could have..

I am very upset and disturbed by her injury. I see her walking this way and I just can’t believe it.



I don’t think he takes into account the other things as you mentioned (liver and kidney risk of meds).

I do not know why he didn’t prescribe another NSAID either. I did ask about it.

When he said no food for her ATCH test, do you think that made the test invalid?

Thank you thank you!

I thought maybe this was the norm for vet care.

[LtlBtyRam]

Our IMS (internal medicine specialist) for our other dog was not too much more expensive than our primary vet. This was 4-6 years ago though.

The first visit might have been, but I know the subsequent ones weren't too much more.

[SassyTerrier]

Hi Claire,

Thank you for sharing your experience with it. I’m so sorry you and the babies had to go through IVDD.
God bless you for helping them through it.

Do your pups hind legs slide forward toward the front legs? Or back legs make a “split”? It’s like the legs are loose. I can’t find medical terminology to describe what it is.

The one leg that now sticks out farther then the other leg, goes forward too much, and I don’t know if it’s the knee too (but she has good knees) bc she fell? Because the leg sticks out, it makes it look like her torso appear funny.
And the foot drags sometimes which is so scary (I could hear her nail scraping, so now keeping her on a sparse grass walkway under a tree). The hip/upper top of leg (not sure what it’s called) look like it goes forward too much.

I’ve been mortified by this. Like what the hell happened?
Maybe the disk randomly herniated, but I wish I could see how my dog was handled and carried by staff, into the room and how handled during her test.

He acted like her not being able to walk was normal bc of old age. No. This is a dog that requires walking and lives for it. People everyday comment on how adorable she is and when I tell them her age, their jaw drops.

She did not have this crazy looking walk before. And all of my neighbors can attest to that bc they see her everyday.
Walking is essential for her mental health; im concerned this this will kill her from depression. It also has kept her joints fluid and mobile, and it’s why her heart sounds “amazing”.

I have no other activity besides a half chewy to give at night which lasts 2 minutes bc she devours it.

I do wonder if recovery would be better if she was on a light sedative? (not sure a kidney and liver safe one exist- I don’t want her body taxed out) so she could sleep and relax?

I put her on the leash for potty and she has been trying to trick me into crossing the street for her walk. Honestly, if I didn’t have her on a leash, she would walk herself several blocks even with this issue. It’s like she doesn’t care about anything but these walks or maybe she isn’t aware she’s in pain.

Your advice is great.

I watched a video on how to pick up an injured dog properly (it was actually a video with a dachshund) bc I was scared of touching her.

I’m going to see if my area has a vet acupuncturist.

That’s also a good point of the X-ray. I didn’t know it required sedation. But if it puts her on her side, I imagine this is a bad idea to be handled or put pressure on any area.

She had lung xrays (clear) a month ago, but it was a fast thing; I’m not sure how they did it (a female vet took care of her that day and did a good job. She personally came out to the car and carried my dog with love. (Also, I don’t think they had enough staff that day, so she had to come out to get my dog. It wasn’t the staff he hired who grabbed my dog by her head and neck the time before, which pissed both me and my mother off.
I didn’t feel worried that day knowing my baby was being cared for by this lady (she even called me in morning to give an update!). But she’s not available to see patients. I guess she only comes in part time to help give the vet a break that day when they book bloodwork and such, but I’m not sure. She’s not a full time vet seeing patients.

I was already pretty concerned and scared of the cost of Cushings (no way around it), so a little panicking about this.
And heartsick over the acute blindness.

Dammit, why the back/legs?! ;(

[Remy’s Mom]

This is just my opinion OK? But it sounds like somewhere in the lumbar vertebrae and what’s causing the legs to do these weird things is neurological damage. My old miniature poodle Pork Chop had severe IVDD and disc problems and rear his legs would slide apart almost like the letter A. He would wobble around. And when it was really bad he would sit on his little rump with his back legs sticking straight out in front of him but slightly pointing outward like in a “V” and then he would lean forward to eat. He almost looked like a toddler sitting there. This was due to neurological damage in his spine. I can’t say how much help the gabapentin and galliprant were. Probably some. Acupuncture helped somewhat but I think the best thing was the laser. It helped reduce inflammation and the treatment only took a few minutes. He was good for both procedures. It sounds to me like there is neurological involvement with what you are saying about her legs. That’s going to take time to heal. In a herniated disc the ‘jelly’ the insulating material inside it can be bulging out and pressing on surrounding nerves. Or there might also be some debris from the disc that is compressing those nerves. Probably to do an X-ray without sedation would depend a lot on how much pain the dog is in. If they are not especially painful they might be able to do it but but a CT scan or MRI would definitely require anesthesia. With older dogs it really doesn’t take much to cause some of these spinal things. I also have spinal issues and just bending down to pick up the dog’s water bowl can be enough to almost collapse my left leg. So I truly sympathize with all creatures who have spinal issues. I know it’s scary to see them not able to walk very well. If you really want to be sure about the extent of this injury and whether or not there is IVDD present I would say contact a board certified orthopedist or neurologist and have a consultation. That way you would have a better idea if this was some acute injury or if it is age related spinal issues. I’m sure you know this but don’t let her jump up and down on the furniture. That’s one of the worst things they can do. You ask why the back legs, well likely because it’s either a lumbar or lower thoracic vertebrae involved and that would affect the nerves that control the hind limbs. The foot dragging almost sounds like a ‘dropped foot’. This happens in humans and again, it relates to neurological damage. Considering what you’ve said and how affected her gait has become, if you can possibly manage it why not try to get a consult with an ortho? Neurologist is good too but they’re harder to come by. A light sedative might keep her quieter but it’s always a big trade off as far as the kidneys and liver. No one likes to do crate rest for their pup and sometimes it makes things worse if they are stressed. I’d try to get her to just sit quietly with you as much as possible while this heals. A week or two of quiet shouldn’t affect her joints that much but I really do think a consult with a specialist would be a very good idea given what you are describing.
Hope this helps!
Claire

[Squirt's Mom]

I agree with trying get an ortho vet to take a look. If there is an IMS nearby I would get them onboard as well. It does sound as if something is going on with either the spine, hips, or perhaps a neurological issue.