Introduction- My new doggie has Cushing's :-(

[koffeebrown]

I saw this dog on petfinder.com. He was at a kill shelter, and the volunteer working there put the word out about my dog. He was sick with heartworms. They were also very up front about the dog having Cushing's Disease. I could not let that dog go to a kill shelter! I decided to adopt the dog regardless. I finally got the dog, and he is so sweet and I love him to pieces. I haven't been able to find coherent information about Cushing's in dogs on one website. Today, I became very frustrated when searching and came across your site. I hope to be able to learn about my dog and how to take care of him and make sure he has everything he needs to be comfortable, healthy, and happy.

Thank you.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and your sweet doggy! :)

First off - bless you, bless you, bless you for saving this baby! Most people would have turned their backs and left his to his fate....and in any shelter that would not have been a good future at all. So you are a true angel and your new baby is so very lucky you came along.

Now, we will do everything we can to help you make his life the best possible. One of the most important things I can tell you is this - Cushing's is RARELY a death sentence; most cush pups live out their normal life spans and beyond because they have caring, attentive parents like you who make sure everything possible is done for them. So if you have read anything to the contrary - forget about it right now. There are a couple of complications that can accompany Cushing's but they are not the norm so don't even think about things like that right now.

Can you tell us if you are seeing any of these signs? -

The most common Cushing's signs (symptoms) include:
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)
• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)
• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs
• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.
• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance
• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• bony, skull-like appearance of head
• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin
• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly
• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)
• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)
• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures

Since he is new to your life it may be difficult to know if there are actual "increases" but for water a healthy pup will drink about 1 oz of water for every pound of body weight. So a 10 lb dog would drink around 10 oz of water a day. Excessive appetite is easy to recognize - a cush pup is hungry 24/7; they always feel like they are literally starving and will wolf down their meal then immediately start searching and begging for more. If your baby is not house trained that will be a tough one but a cush pup sometimes doesn't even have time to hike his leg - it just happens.

If the shelter gave you any paper work showing the tests they did that would help as well. If they don't show the actual results call them and ask if you can get those results then share them here with us. In your shoes, however, I would want his own vet to do the testing, keeping in mind he is going to be a bit stressed from the changes in his life plus the heart worms. I would wait until those worms were gone then do the cush testing. ;)

To help you educate yourself, which is the most critical factor in Cushing's, read the threads on the forum and ask any questions that reading prompts. In addition here is a link to our Helpful Resource section where you will find solid information about this disease from testing to treating.

https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?10-Helpful-Resources-for-Owners-of-Cushing-s-Dogs

I am sure others will be along soon to chat with you as well. We are very glad you found us and I want you to know we will do all we can to help you on this journey. Take a deep breath and try not to worry overly much. There are many worse things to deal with than Cushing's - trust me; I work with special needs and hospice dogs in rescue and many times have wished those babies only had to deal with Cushing's.

Hugs,
Leslie

[koffeebrown]

Hi Leslie,

It is a relief to know that I've got a great resource in the forums. I really appreciate you pointing out some of the help I can receive here. I am so happy to have my pup, Rocky, with me. I've only had him since Friday, so I don't know the answers to many of those questions. It took a TON of production to get him from Texas to me out here in DC... and at the end of the day, I just put him on a plane. It was the only way! But I've been watching him very carefully and had a lot of time to look him over and observe his behavior. This is what I've observed from your list:


The most common Cushing's signs (symptoms) include:
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)- DRINKS TONS OF WATER. I don't know how much to allot him each day. I talked to the lady that helped me coordinate moving him from Texas, and she recommended stopping the water at 9 pm. I get up around 3 am, and I put him outside right away so he can get all the pee out first thing!

• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)- Tons. It's a lot more urine than I've seen with my current dog. And my current dog can hold her pee for much longer periods of time. I end up taking out Rocky (and my other dog now!) every 4- 5 hours. We had one accident since Friday.... I think we might have hit the 5 hour mark yesterday and he couldn't hold it. It was A LOT of urine.

• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs- UNKNOWN

• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)- None that I see. My other dog eats sparingly throughout the day, so I put Rocky's food out as well. He doesn't compete with my other dog for food, and he leaves food in his bowl and comes back throughout the day.

• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.- None that I see. I see him occasionally going over to the garbage, but so does my other dog... they know there's foodstuff in there, but we keep the lids firmly shut, and the garbages are a little bigger than what they can handle.

• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance- Not really. I feel under his belly, and it seems a tiny bit fatty, but I keep my other dog in like tip top shape and run her ragged with ball playing and stuff.... so I'm used to seeing dogs in top shape. I wouldn't be surprised if Rocky was a little bigger, since I'm not sure if the previous owners gave him good, nutritious dog food or table scraps.

• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution- Unknown

• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss- Unknown

• bony, skull-like appearance of head- Not that I can see. His head looks totally normal.

• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness- I have noticed that he seems a little "uncertain" on his hind legs, but that's just when he's going up and down the stairs. I don't think he's used to stairs, and the second day, I think he forgot he was on the stairs when he was begging for his treats and fell down the stairs. Since then, he's been a bit skittish of the stairs. I let him walk them, but sometimes, if he seems like he's having fear, I'll pick him up and carry him up and down the stairs. I can say when he's begging for his post-walk treat, or when he's trying to observe what's in the garbage, he'll get on his hind legs and balance there for a bit, so he may be ok with the hind legs for now.

• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people- Not to jump on people, but he's a little slower to jump up on the sofa when it's time to put on his leash for walking.

• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on- He does pant sometimes a bit, but it's usually very short episodes and seems to be happening less and less often

• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso- Unknown. Initially, the volunteers at the center where he was being held said he came in with matted hair, so they had to cut his hair quite a bit. They said they tried to leave as much as they could. I'll keep my eyes open for that.

• other coat changes like dullness, dryness- No dryness in his coat.

• slow regrowth of hair after clipping- Unknown. I've asked the shelter if they have before pictures so I can see how long his hair normally is, but I'll ask again so I can see if there's a difference (I think he was at the shelter for a few weeks before being transferred to a farm when transitioning to me.

• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin- I've seen some pigmentation on his tummy

• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly- I haven't noticed that.


• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)- No, but the volunteer said he had some calcification in his ears.

• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)- haven't noticed. I haven't seen any blood in his stool or anything. I spend time petting him and just checking him in general while he's in a pretty chill state, and I haven't seen any skin infections at all.

• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures- Clutching my pearls! I haven't seen those at all.... lordy, lordy!

I just looked over Rocky's medical notes. I hadn't realized the shelter put Rocky on death row! I'm so glad I was able to get him out of that hell hole. It did say he had the pot belly and the alopecia on his skin. It says he has increased ACTH. I can't really read the results well, but they summed it up- suspected borderline Cushing's. :-(

Sometimes, he will hack... not a ton, though. I have seen him do it maybe three times since he arrived here. I'm not sure what that's about.

They did a heart worm test on him before they sent him out. It says negative for heart worms but to retest, so I'll retest him sometime in the next couple of weeks as recommended. In the meantime, since there is a diagnosis, the notes say that since it's suspected Cushing's and to have my own vet retest, I may get insurance on Rocky and see if I can get through the wait period. If so, then I'll get him a much more comprehensive testing so I can definitively determine what's going on with Rocky's health.

He's a sweet dog. The one thing that I find funny is that he is definitely a warm weather dog. DC winters aren't that cold (I'm from the midwest), but they're definitely colder than Dallas! He tends to shiver a lot, so I put him in my other dog's coat. It takes me about 20- 30 min to determine he's running on empty. Once he comes in and I get the coat off, I'll run him around a tiny bit to warm him up. If he seems like he's still shivering, I'll just hold him nice and firm to get some body heat on him. That works very well as all.

That's about all I can think of. One question- once the pills get Cushing's under control, does the excessive peeing get under control as well? And he's about 11 pounds, so he should be limited to about 11 ounces of water per day?

Thanks!

Koffee

[koffeebrown]

Oh- he also smacks his lips a lot. Is that common, or is my dog just.... special when it comes to lick smacking? I also have found that my other dog loves the smell (and taste) of Rocky's butthole. Ummmm.... is there something special going on with Rocky's poop (or poop-hole)?

:)

Thanks!

Koffee

[Squirt's Mom]

Thank you so much for the additional info, Koffee! I do see a few things that are consistent with Cushing's but many that are not. He could be in the early stages and if so he won't display as many signs yet and the things you are seeing could simply be from the stresses of being in the shelter plus all the changes. Cortisol, the enemy in Cushing's, will rise naturally in response to any stressor, internal or external. The good thing about Cushing's is that it is a very slowly progressing condition typically taking years to do any irreparable damage so it would seem you have time to let him settle in before pursuing any cush testing.

As for the water - do NOT restrict water just in case. Cush pups don't pee a lot because they drink a lot - it is just the opposite. They drink a lot to keep themselves hydrated because they ARE going to pee no matter how much water they get. Restricting water can quickly lead to dehydration and major issues so keep fresh water down at all times.

Hugs
Leslie

[koffeebrown]

Thank you so much for the additional info, Koffee! I do see a few things that are consistent with Cushing's but many that are not. He could be in the early stages and if so he won't display as many signs yet and the things you are seeing could simply be from the stresses of being in the shelter plus all the changes. Cortisol, the enemy in Cushing's, will rise naturally in response to any stressor, internal or external. The good thing about Cushing's is that it is a very slowly progressing condition typically taking years to do any irreparable damage so it would seem you have time to let him settle in before pursuing any cush testing.

As for the water - do NOT restrict water just in case. Cush pups don't pee a lot because they drink a lot - it is just the opposite. They drink a lot to keep themselves hydrated because they ARE going to pee no matter how much water they get. Restricting water can quickly lead to dehydration and major issues so keep fresh water down at all times.

Hugs
Leslie

Ok, will do. I do keep his water fresh. I figured if water was important for Cush dogs, then I should refresh it every time I feel it gets a little cloudy from drinking after eating and stuff like that. I'll keep the water out as well, but I think I may have to put him in a diaper between walks. The woman at the shelter mailed me a belly belt and it seems to work wonders. It's like the belt teaches him how to hold it in.

I will keep his stresses down to the minimum. I guess it's lots of belly rubs and bedtime hugs from now on! :)

Thanks for the additional information!

[koffeebrown]

Hello all,

After reading through this forum for the entire day, I'm wondering if the vet from the kill shelter made a correct diagnosis. I don't mean to go against a vet, but I have a terrific vet that I take my other dog to, and I wanted to wipe the slate clean and bring my new dog in for testing. So I'm thinking about taking him off the Vetoryl, since the vet where I got him said he had "borderline Cushings", and when the Vetoryl has cleared his bloodstream, I'll immediately bring him in for a full array of testing for Cushings, as well as other illnesses that seem to have the same symptoms. I was going to make the appointment, and I wondered how long it would take for the Vetoryl to clear from his blood stream before I bring him in for full blood workup? I know this seems extreme, but I really want my dog to have the most accurate diagnosis of what's wrong with him from a vet that I trust.

So, my doggie is about 12 pounds and takes a 10 mg pill once per day. We actually had a gap time of 4 days where he wasn't able to take it when he was being transported from Dallas to DC, but I restarted him on it for the last two days. Now, I'm thinking I might wean him off it and then take him in once it's out of his system. I would feel better knowing I have a more definitive diagnosis.

Help!

Koffee

[labblab]

Hello Koffee, and welcome from me, too! I apologize that I have only a moment to write, but I wanted to explain that I’ve added your newest question to your original thread. It’s easier for us to offer our thoughts and suggestions when all the info/questions about a dog are consolidated in a single thread. So once again, welcome, and I’ll try to get back to write more tomorrow.

Marianne

[lulusmom]

Hi Koffee and welcome to you and your new precious bundle of joy. Isn't it funny how we connect so strongly with a dog simply by looking at a picture? Leslie can tell you all about those long distance love affairs. LOL God bless both of you for going above and beyond to get those pups home and in your arms.

Two things stood out in my mind as I read through your answers to Leslie's questions. First one is your boy had severe heartworms and if he was only in the shelter for two weeks, I don't think that is near enough time to see that serious condition resolved before testing for cushing's. I have no idea what borderline cushing's would be without seeing the actual test results; however, because he was likely sick when testing was done, the results would be exaggerated due to the stress of heartworms. That would certainly raise my suspicions about the accuracy of the diagnosis. The second thing that stood out to me is the apparent intolerance to cold, which is very common in dogs with low thyroid function. It is not common in cushing's as cushingoid dogs are intolerant to heat. Is there any way you can reach out to whomever you adopted Rocky from and ask them to send you all of Rocky's medical records? This is not an unreasonable request as you adopted a dog a special needs dog and they should be happy to comply. They may make your life difficult and say no but they should at least provide you with the name and contact information for the vet who provided Rocky's care while at the shelter so that you or your vet can request copies. I think your decision to have Rocky seen by your vet is an excellent one. Like you, I have concerns that treatment may have been prescribed based on one borderline test result. I've been active in small senior and special needs rescue for most of my adult life. I've had extensive experience with shelter vets and without exception, they knew just enough about cushing's to be dangerous so that red flag is flying high right now.

There is no need to wean Rocky off of Vetoryl. This drug has a very short half life and starts to wear off quite quickly. If you stop dosing today, you can book your vet appointment for any time. Your vet will likely want to run a complete senior screening which includes a blood chemistry, cbc and urinalysis and culture. Rocky should be fasted for these tests so confirm this with your vet before the appointment. I'm sure glad you found us and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have now and in the future.

Glynda

[koffeebrown]

Hi Koffee and welcome to you and your new precious bundle of joy. Isn't it funny how we connect so strongly with a dog simply by looking at a picture? Leslie can tell you all about those long distance love affairs. LOL God bless both of you for going above and beyond to get those pups home and in your arms.

Two things stood out in my mind as I read through your answers to Leslie's questions. First one is your boy had severe heartworms and if he was only in the shelter for two weeks, I don't think that is near enough time to see that serious condition resolved before testing for cushing's. I have no idea what borderline cushing's would be without seeing the actual test results; however, because he was likely sick when testing was done, the results would be exaggerated due to the stress of heartworms. That would certainly raise my suspicions about the accuracy of the diagnosis. The second thing that stood out to me is the apparent intolerance to cold, which is very common in dogs with low thyroid function. It is not common in cushing's as cushingoid dogs are intolerant to heat. Is there any way you can reach out to whomever you adopted Rocky from and ask them to send you all of Rocky's medical records? This is not an unreasonable request as you adopted a dog a special needs dog and they should be happy to comply. They may make your life difficult and say no but they should at least provide you with the name and contact information for the vet who provided Rocky's care while at the shelter so that you or your vet can request copies. I think your decision to have Rocky seen by your vet is an excellent one. Like you, I have concerns that treatment may have been prescribed based on one borderline test result. I've been active in small senior and special needs rescue for most of my adult life. I've had extensive experience with shelter vets and without exception, they knew just enough about cushing's to be dangerous so that red flag is flying high right now.

There is no need to wean Rocky off of Vetoryl. This drug has a very short half life and starts to wear off quite quickly. If you stop dosing today, you can book your vet appointment for any time. Your vet will likely want to run a complete senior screening which includes a blood chemistry, cbc and urinalysis and culture. Rocky should be fasted for these tests so confirm this with your vet before the appointment. I'm sure glad you found us and we'll do our best to answer any questions you may have now and in the future.

Glynda

Hi Glynda,

Thanks for the thanks and the thoughts. I actually was thinking something along those lines as well. I spoke to the volunteer that spotted Rocky in the shelter. She said that Rocky was in the shelter for at least three weeks and then they put him on death row. When they moved Rocky from the shelter to the final tent, she found him shivering in a cage, matted hair, no heat, no blankets or anything to lie on, and a severe case of heartworms. The shelter wouldn't have bothered to act had she not put an ad out looking for someone to adopt him and I hadn't stepped forward and filled out the adoption papers and paid the shelter. I'm sure that's a lot of stress on a dog. God knows how long he had heartworms. *shudder* I believe that third week they started to deal with the heartworms and then during an examination of his test results, came across this Cushing's.

I also have observed Rocky again, just to be sure about the cold/heat thing, which is something I also read about. He definitely gets cold very quickly. I thought he was nervous, but nope- he's freezing. When I take him out for a walk, I now put a bomber jacket on him. He's still shivering. It gets so bad that I have to pick him up and hold him and then blow inside his jacket to generate heat. Then he's good to go for another few minutes. I also gave him a dog bed. He snagged a towel and sleeps with the towel all the time. If he wants more heat, he will sit at my legs at my desk. I have a heater that radiates heat and he will get as close to it as possible and then go to sleep. Weird.

I'll keep him on his meds for now and then take him off a couple of days before his appointment. I hope if they do some comprehensive testing on him, they'll be able to figure out what's going on, once and for all. But---- thanks for your advice and observations as well!

Koffee

[Squirt's Mom]

I want to caution against keeping him on the Vetoryl. This is a VERY powerful drug and can cause permanent damage to the adrenal glands and even death. Since there are enough red flags to make that "borderline" diagnosis suspicious he needs to be off that drug. I would stop it now and not even think about restarting it until he's had plenty of time to get settled into his new home and the heartworms cleared. Then, and ONLY then, if he is displaying the signs I gave you above would I consider having the testing done. But please do stop giving the Vetoryl for now.

[koffeebrown]

I want to caution against keeping him on the Vetoryl. This is a VERY powerful drug and can cause permanent damage to the adrenal glands and even death. Since there are enough red flags to make that "borderline" diagnosis suspicious he needs to be off that drug. I would stop it now and not even think about restarting it until he's had plenty of time to get settled into his new home and the heartworms cleared. Then, and ONLY then, if he is displaying the signs I gave you above would I consider having the testing done. But please do stop giving the Vetoryl for now.

They did say that the heartworms were cleared up. But I do think I should stop giving him the Vetoryl, let him get settled, watch his diet, give him his regular walks, and observe over time his behavior and any symptoms. I scheduled a visit for him the second week of January. That will give me plenty of observations to take in to the doctor.

Until then, I'll still be participating in the forums, if that's ok.... :)

Thanks so much to all of you for your advice! I feel a lot better having a plan in place.

Koffee

[Squirt's Mom]

Participation encouraged! :)

[lulusmom]

Koffee, I wanted to mention that treatment for heartworm a lot of times takes two months to resolve so if Rocky was at the shelter for only a few weeks, I would not assume he is cured. Your vet should confirm that for you.

Glynda

[koffeebrown]

Well,

It has been three days since I took my doggy off the Vetoryl. He seems.... better. Weird. He has been holding his pee in, and the only accident he had was in his diaper. It had been 5 hours since our walk, so I know that he can only go at most, 4 1/2 hours between walks. He's not shivering as much anymore. And he doesn't seem as thirsty, even though I leave the water and food bowls out all the time and let them both eat and drink at will. I haven't seen anything more, but I'm keeping notes on how he's reacting to everything.

I'll keep you all in the loop. Happy New Year, everyone! :)

Koffee

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm glad to hear he is showing fewer signs but that's not really surprising. Addison's Disease, which is the opposite of Cushing's, has many of the same signs so if the Vetoryl was making his cortisol a bit too low he could easily have been showing a few signs similar to Cushing's but were really Addison's. LOADS of fun, huh? :D I am REALLY glad you stopped the Vetoryl and pray you continue to see improvements to the point Cushing's is no longer a possibility.

[koffeebrown]

I took some pictures of Rocky's medical files. Maybe this might help with teying to figure out what's going on with Rocky. Now that he's completely off his meds, the only thing I see is excessive panting from time to time, and that he pees a lot more than what I'm used to seeing. So now, I'm pretty concerned. I took pictures of the files. How do I attach pictures to posts?

[Squirt's Mom]

We can't attach files to posts so what we typically do is simply type in any abnormal results along with the normal ranges and little letters that follow. So it would look something like this -

ALP 354 ug/dl 100-250
BUN 21 mnol/l 9-31

The ACTH would have 2 or 3 numbers depending on if it was done in the US (2) or Canada (3). We would want to see all those numbers.
The LDDS would have 3 numbers - pre, one at around 4 hours, and one at around 8 hours. We would want to see all those numbers.
An abdominal ultrasound will have comments and we would want to see any that mention anything other than "unremarkable" or "normal".

[koffeebrown]

Ok, I am so confused. Now that I've taken Rocky off the Vetoryl, I'm not sure what symptoms I should be looking for.

He panted a little bit in the beginning, but he hardly ever does it at all. I notice he ONLY does it when he's in the car, and I think he's getting a bit excited. Then I pet him and say some quiet words to him. He settles down, and that's about it.

He pees a lot- I don't know if boy dogs pee more than girl dogs, or if there's something wrong. I take him out 5 times a day for 30 minute walks. Some days, I cut it to 4 times per day. I'm trying to get him to last 6 hours at a stretch before going out. He's had 2 accidents since he arrived here, but I do put a belly bands on him when I want him to definitely not pee in the house. I'm slowly weaning him off those as well. Sometimes, he takes them off all by himself and will be chillin' around my apartment, just wandering around buck nekked. He hasn't had an accident during any of those times either.

He has a flatulence thing. I have never heard a dog fart and thought it was one of those jokes people say when they try to blame it on others. But I've been in the car with him and I'll suddenly smell him. I thought he was poo'ing in the car, but each time I checked... nothing. Then last night, he was sitting in the bathroom with me while I was changing. I heard a distinctive set of long and slow farts... like a whoopee cushion slowly being let out, with two fast farts at the end. I about fell off the chair- I did not know he was doing that.

His appetite is healthy, but I don't notice it to be ravenous. He begs for table scraps, but so does my other dog. I'd be more concerned if he wasn't begging for the table scraps (which I do not give).

He doesn't seem to be thirsty all the time. I keep the water bowl out, and he gets some when he wants it. I don't see any excessive water drinking at all. He's about 12 pounds, and my other dog is about 11 pounds. Between the two of them, they drink (combined) 24- 30 ounces of water per day. They both drink from each other's bowls. I watch them closely. I don't see one drinking more than the other.

I thought he was shaking a lot, but it's a lot colder here than in Texas, where he's from. When we had a warm snap, he wasn't shivering at all. I bought him a nice winter coat to wear, and he barely shivers at all. He loves the heat. I have a radiator heater at my desk, and he sometimes snuggles up close to that. I have another one in my bathroom and he loves to snuggle up in his soft bed in the warmth there too.

I notice he smacks his lips a lot. I don't know if that means anything.

I drag my dogs just about everywhere for hours at a time, so they're pretty much awake for long periods. When they sleep, they sleep soundly. He sleeps soundly, and I don't notice any issues there.

His fur is fine, skin is fine, except it looks like his belly is covered with liver spots... but I don't know if he's always like that or if that's something that developed for some reason. I've studied them closely over the weeks, and I haven't noticed anything. What symptoms should I be looking for? Is there anything that should make me worried that I've typed up here? I'm not assuming by any means that my dog is totally normal, but I just don't know if this is the calm before the storm, or if there's something more I need to look for, or if I'm just fooling myself.

Thanks,

Koffee

[koffeebrown]

Oh, also... regarding his stools- I give him a mix of a little wet dog food 1-2 times per day (about 3 heaping tablespoons in total) mixed with his kibble. His stools are pretty normal. Sometimes, they are a little soft, but that's usually after he has the wet/dry food combo. By the time he gets to the dry food only mix left in the bowl at the end of the day, his stools are pretty solid. No lethargy either, or listless disposition or anything. In fact, he can balance and walk about 1 to 1/2 feet when he's begging for his post-walk treats. He doesn't like to jump up on furniture, but he will jump up on the bed when I'm going down for my nap and he wants to lay on the bed with me. Otherwise, he's a complete delight and extremely cute and lovable. How did someone throw this sweet dog away???!!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Could you post the results of all tests that were done on him? We need only see what is marked abnormal with the reference ranges and units of measurement.

If it seems that he is peeing a lot than you may want to take an urine sample into the vet and have it cultured to see if an UTI is brewing.

Lip smacking can be a symptom of nausea or tummy troubles, you could try slippery elm bark, I'd ask the vet about this.

Rocky sure is lucky to have you as his Mom!

Lori

[koffeebrown]

Ok:


Test:Abaxos HMV Test
WBC- 11.89, ranges 6- 17
LYM- 1.51, ranges 1- 4.80
MON- .34, ranges .20- 1.50
NEU- 9.87, ranges 3- 12
EOS- .12, ranges 0- .80
BAS- .04, ranges 0- .40
LY%- 12.7, ranges 0- 100%
MO%- 2.9, ranges 0- 100%
NE%- 83.1, ranges 0- 100%
EO%- 1, ranges 0- 100%
BA%- .4, ranges 0- 100%
RBC- 5.62, ranges 5.0- 8.5
HGB- 11.8- Flag: L ranges 12- 18 g/dL
HCT- 36.75- Flag: L ranges 37- 55 h/dL
MCV: 65 ranges 60- 77
MCH- 21, ranges 19.5- 24.5
MCHC- 32.0 ranges 31.0-39.0
RDWc- 16.2 ranges 14- 20
PLT- 288 ranges 165-500
PCT .27 Flag: H ranges 0.00- 0.00
PDWc- 36.9 Flag: H ranges 0.00- 0.00

Cortisol Serial 2 ACTH 1
Time 1 Pre
Time 2 Post
Cortisol sample 4.2, ranges 1.0- 5.0 mg/dL
Cortisol Sample 20.2 Flag H ranges 8.0- 17.0 mg/dL


Cortisol (Urine) 1.4- does not give ranges.

I'm not sure what this next part is. Something about ANTREQ Antech Requuisition
Complete Blood Count

WBC: 10.1 ranges 4- 15.5 10 to the 6/mL
RBC: 5.4, ranges 4.8- 9.3 10 to the 6/mL
HGB: 13, ranges 12.1- 20.3 g/dL
HCT: 40, ranges 30- 60%
MCV: 75 , ranges 58- 79
MCH: 24.3, ranges 19- 28
MCHC: 33, ranges 30- 38
Platlet Count: 461 Flag: H, ranges 170- 400
Platelet Estimate: Increased
Neutrophils: 68, ranges 60- 77
Bands: 0 ranges 1- 3
Lymphocytes: 19, ranges 12- 30
Monocytes: 7 ranges 3- 10
Eosinophils: 6 ranges 2- 10
Basophils: 0 ranges 0- 1
Absolute Neutrophils: 6868, ranges 2060- 10600
Absolute Lymphocyte: 1919, ranges 690- 4500
Absolute Monocytes: 707, ranges 0- 840
Absolute Eosinophils: 606, ranges 0- 1200
Absolute Basophils 0 ranges 0- 150



Here's another test they did:
Abaxos VetScan

T4: 1.4 ranges 1.1- 4.0
CHOL: 220 ranges 120- 270
Suffix: QC OK


Hyperadrenocorticism (HAC): Post ACTH results greater than 20 ug/dL (dog) and greater than 15 ug/dL (cat) are consistent with HAC
Iatrogenic Hypoeradrenocorticism: Resting cortisol is usually between 1- 5 ug/dL with little to no increase in the post ACTH cortisol level

Hypoadrenocorticism (HOC) Resting cortisol is usually subnormal (less than 1 ug/dL) or low normal with no increase after ACTH

Post-Lysodren: Pre and post cortisol levels after Lysodren loading or while on maintenance Lysodren should be between 1- 5 ug/dL

Post Trilostane: Pre and post cortisol levels between 1.5- 9.1 ug/dL indicate optimal control

Pulse: 120.00, weight 12.07, age 6 years BCS 2.50/5.00



Objective section:
Heart difficult to assess, lungs harsh, grade 4 dental disease, generalized alopecia with pendulous abdomen, thin skin, nails very long (I actually had them cut the day I got him).
Diagnosis: Otitis Externa, Endocrine Disease

[koffeebrown]

Could you post the results of all tests that were done on him? We need only see what is marked abnormal with the reference ranges and units of measurement.

If it seems that he is peeing a lot than you may want to take an urine sample into the vet and have it cultured to see if an UTI is brewing.

Lip smacking can be a symptom of nausea or tummy troubles, you could try slippery elm bark, I'd ask the vet about this.

Rocky sure is lucky to have you as his Mom!

Lori

I am waiting for his insurance period to elapse so he can go to the doctor. I don't know what he has, but since he isn't on any medication and seems fine, I got him the same insurance my current pup has. We have a 30 day wait period, and then 80% of his tests are covered under insurance, and anything that my vet diagnosis after will be covered under the insurance. Until that time, I'm keeping him as healthy as I can, and just making sure he has the best of everything. And I take notes of his general condition every day and make any observations so when I go in with him for his doctor's visit, then they have plenty to go with so they can do their own tests on him. I don't know if I should test the vet from the kill shelter, especially because the volunteer said he had heartworms at some point, but they tested him and said he didn't.... I don't know what to believe at this point. I get conflicting stories, so I would rather take him to my nice, modernized vet that has plenty of testing capabilities. And I'd prefer to do it when he's a lot less stressed, has a good diet going, and is in as optimal health as I can bring him in.

[Harley PoMMom]

Usually a Chemistry panel is done along with the CBC (complete blood count). On the Chemistry panel some of the things tested are liver enzymes (ALT, ALP, GGT), breakdown products from the kidneys (creatinine, BUN), the glucose, cholesterol, electrolytes (potassium, sodium, calcium)...do you see any of these?

[Squirt's Mom]

Do you have any results that contain things like BUN, CHOL, ALP, GGT, T4, etc? We would really like to see those results as well. We ONLY need to see the abnormal results, the ones that are too high or too low.

btw I bolded the abnormal results on the tests you posted so they are easy to see. ;)

Personally I don't consider the ACTH results valid since he was so stressed from the shelter and concurrent issues - (heartworms etc)

From what you told us I personally don't really see cush signs. A cush pup doesn't just have a big appetite and they don't just beg for table scrapes. They literally think they are STARVING all the time, even after eating a full meal. They will jump on the table and take your food, not beg for it. They counter-surf looking any crumbs that may be there. They will run other dogs off their food and steal it. They are in the trash hunting and often eating odd things they find outside. They are CONSTANTLY looking for food - 24/7 they are starving. You can't keep a water bowl filled up fast enough a cush pup drinks so much and they are always needing to pee, frequently having accidents. They do NOT like heat at all and will seek any cool spots. They will lay in front of fans or on vinyl/linoleum VS carpets. They would not want a sweater on any time and adore winter weather as they are finally able to cool off a bit. They pant all the time as if they had run for miles. This is how most untreated cush pups present. Rocky seems to be the opposite on most of these signs.

Alopecia is not always associated with Cushing's but can be a stand alone condition. The "harsh lungs" and grade 4 dental disease could also have an effect on the ACTH and those are some of the things I would be looking into before Cushing's - a good dental cleaning might make him feel better all around. So if I were you I would look for a UTI, get a dental done, and have his lungs further investigated. But that's me. ;)

[koffeebrown]

Usually a Chemistry panel is done along with the CBC (complete blood count). On the Chemistry panel some of the things tested are liver enzymes (ALT, ALP, GGT), breakdown products from the kidneys (creatinine, BUN), the glucose, cholesterol, electrolytes (potassium, sodium, calcium)...do you see any of these?

No. I typed out everything that was printed in the paperwork sent. :-(

[koffeebrown]

Do you have any results that contain things like BUN, CHOL, ALP, GGT, T4, etc? We would really like to see those results as well. We ONLY need to see the abnormal results, the ones that are too high or too low.

btw I bolded the abnormal results on the tests you posted so they are easy to see. ;)

Personally I don't consider the ACTH results valid since he was so stressed from the shelter and concurrent issues - (heartworms etc)

From what you told us I personally don't really see cush signs. A cush pup doesn't just have a big appetite and they don't just beg for table scrapes. They literally think they are STARVING all the time, even after eating a full meal. They will jump on the table and take your food, not beg for it. They counter-surf looking any crumbs that may be there. They will run other dogs off their food and steal it. They are in the trash hunting and often eating odd things they find outside. They are CONSTANTLY looking for food - 24/7 they are starving. You can't keep a water bowl filled up fast enough a cush pup drinks so much and they are always needing to pee, frequently having accidents. They do NOT like heat at all and will seek any cool spots. They will lay in front of fans or on vinyl/linoleum VS carpets. They would not want a sweater on any time and adore winter weather as they are finally able to cool off a bit. They pant all the time as if they had run for miles. This is how most untreated cush pups present. Rocky seems to be the opposite on most of these signs.

Alopecia is not always associated with Cushing's but can be a stand alone condition. The "harsh lungs" and grade 4 dental disease could also have an effect on the ACTH and those are some of the things I would be looking into before Cushing's - a good dental cleaning might make him feel better all around. So if I were you I would look for a UTI, get a dental done, and have his lungs further investigated. But that's me. ;)

Wow. That would be a relief! I have been look and staring at this pup every day. He just hasn't been in any discomfort. Every time people see him, they comment on how happy he looks. My housekeepers come every week and comment on how healthy he looks and how much better he's getting to look. The only thing that really bothers me is the amount of urine that he pees and the fact that he has dental issues. He sleeps so well, and he is so playful and he is really gaining familiarity with me and my other dog and his surroundings. Sometimes, I just stare at him while he's sleeping and wonder if he is really as sick as they seemed to think.

What might "harsh lungs" be indicative of? He doesn't seem to breathe with difficulty at all. Sometimes (about once every few days), he gets what my other pup gets- a little reverse wheezing. But I have a solution for that problem that worked with pup 1- I firmly pinch his nose, which makes him immediately stop. He's had about 4 short wheezing episodes since I got him about 3 weeks ago.

I'll start with the UTI and focus on the dental issues in the meantime and report back!

Thanks, everyone!

Koffee

[koffeebrown]

Ok, so after taking my pup in to the vet, they were able to tell me that he's about 9 years old, not 6. They took a urine sample, took blood, and did a fecal float and found everything to be in normal ranges. They found that he does have some dental issues, and they recommended a teeth cleaning/scaling, and there could be up to 6 teeth that need to be removed. And other than that, he's a normal, healthy dog after the vet did a complete physical for me to submit to insurance. I still think there's something wrong, but it may be a bit obscure for a regular physical. I'm going to be watching him carefully in the next month. He's going in for his teeth in February, so at that time, I will list off any symptoms I see and see if there are tests they can do. I can't tell you specifically, but something tells me there's something up with this dog.

I still love him to pieces, though! :)

Thanks, everyone!

Koffee

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh what great news! You may well find after the dental that the teeth have been a large part of what you are seeing that is concerning you. One bad tooth can make us feel like crap, cause stress that has a physiological effect, and change our behavior so imagine what SIX bad teeth must feel like! :eek: Continue to be diligent but don't be surprised if you have a whole new pup once his mouth is taken care of. ;)

Hugs
Leslie

[koffeebrown]

Oh what great news! You may well find after the dental that the teeth have been a large part of what you are seeing that is concerning you. One bad tooth can make us feel like crap, cause stress that has a physiological effect, and change our behavior so imagine what SIX bad teeth must feel like! :eek: Continue to be diligent but don't be surprised if you have a whole new pup once his mouth is taken care of. ;)

Hugs
Leslie

UPDATE!!!!!!!

Hello everyone.

I wanted to stop in and update everyone aince they were so good to me whem I furst got my new (old) dog. I took him in for dental work, and his teeth were a hot mess. They extracted abiut 9 teeth that were either blackened, broken, or extreme decay. After the procedure, it was like I had a different dog. And within 3 months, all the bald patches he had when I got him was gone. His hair grew rrally long. I cut so much of his matted hair off that when it grew back in, it qas this beautiful, silky long coat that was so soft. Nothing at all like when he first arrived. His ears were really small, but it turns out, once his fur grew back, his ears are so furry and pointy! He looks lkke a baby with pigtails. It's so cute! He started jumping around when he would see me. The old boy has pep in his step! And most of all, he doesn't pee all over the pace anymore. Once I put him on a dtructured walk schedule, and he could see my other dog pees outside, and he hates the diapers, he fell right into line. I think he was not trained on how to pee outside. He has no issues whatsoever. He's just the sweetest dog who loves to stick close to me and hide in all my pillows at night and sleep underneath the pile. He's hilarious!

I also found that he's not deaf. They renamed him and didn't call him by his real name. As soon as I learned what his real name was and called him by it, he perked up and came over. He's gor norhing wrong with his hearing or eyesight!

I've had my sweet dog for one year, one month, and 2 weeks now. Thanks to you guys, I did the right thing and took him off his meds and gor him to the ver right away so we could determine he did not have Cushings at all. Im6still in touch with the kill shelter where I got him. I send pictures and updates to the volunteers. They can't believe he's the same sad dog that sat in those metal cages. He just looks nothing like the sad eyed, peeing, matted shell of a dog that they shipped to me almost 1 year and two months later. Yay!

So thanks to everyone who dtepped in and helped out. I wish all of you luck. Cushing's is a tough disease for any dog to have. I (and Prince, and Georgia) wish all of you well!

Koffee

[labblab]

Dear Koffee,

Thanks so much for this tremendous update!! It’s so sweet of you to take the time to share your good news — it brightens the day for us all. I didn’t have the chance to write to you last year because I was pulled away from the forum right then, so I’m really glad to have the chance to add a note now. Your kind words about the help you received here are appreciated so much. But I want to turn right around and thank *you* so much for being the angel you are by rescuing an old dog. Reading about your boy’s journey brings tears to my eyes and such gratitude to you in my heart. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Again, it’s so lovely to hear back from you. And I send you and your entire family my very best wishes for the future!

Giant hugs,
Marianne