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View Full Version : Pug Mom Needs Support...Sweet Olivia has passed



Olivia'sMom
06-25-2017, 12:56 PM
Hi All – I am very grateful to have found this group, as your posts have helped me to feel not so alone in this Cushing’s journey with my girl. I hope this post isn’t too long - as I could really use some experience, strength and hope here.

A little background – Olivia is an 11-year-old pug who came to us as a rescue (after bouncing around between several foster homes), just before her 1st birthday. She joined my almost 2-year-old (at the time) pug, Mr. BIG, and completed our family. They were inseparable until we lost Mr. BIG almost three years ago. It was hard on Olivia, but in some respects, I think she also really enjoyed being an “only pug” and did well. However, about a year later (two years ago) she started having separation anxiety if we left her alone in the evening. I work from home, and always have, so she is used to constant company. She also started having episodes of colitis and we found that she had some pretty advanced arthritis in her rear hips and knees. She went on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal food, and started on a Dasuquin supplement.

Olivia also has Recurring Vestibular disease, diagnosed almost 2 years ago. We ruled out inner ear infections, as well as any inner ear defects or tumors with a CT Scan. However, the scan was unable to confirm or clear any possible brain tumors. We decided not to do an MRI, as results would not change the course of treatment – and a brain tumor was considered a high possibility due to the recurring nature of the episodes. Olivia has very intense vestibular episodes with severe nystagmus and a complete inability to walk, stand or sit unassisted. The episodes last anywhere from an hour to two hours, and range in intensity. She has sometimes gone only a day between episodes, but more often goes a month, sometimes three or more months in between. As traumatic as they were at onset, we have learned to manage quite well. And, the symptoms completely resolve between episodes, meaning – no lingering effects. We give her Meclizine at onset, and sometimes for a few days after to help with any motion sickness she may be experiencing.

A year ago, we moved, and this was very hard on her. It was a big change, and we also had to change vets. Fortunately, we found a vet we really love in our new town. Her nighttime anxiety spread into the day time as well, and she became increasingly needy – not able to take her eyes off me and working herself into a total panic if left alone. We finally got into a good routine in the new house, and she settled in. I could leave her during the day for grocery shopping, etc. and while she would stand vigil near the door (we made a comfy bed for her there) waiting for my return she was mostly relaxed, and patiently waiting (we installed cameras so I could see her at all times). We tried Composure supplements from the vet, which really didn’t have any effect – but, time and routine seemed to be helping – for a while. I also noticed she was drinking more water than usual – but, it wasn’t excessive or concerning. Our Mr. BIG had diabetes, and I knew what excessive drinking looked like, and this wasn’t it – just a slight increase – that I’m surprised I even noticed. She has always had regular vet appointments, and had recently had full senior panel blood work, which was all within normal ranges.

Around September last year she started moaning and groaning a bit more than usual when getting up or laying down. Our vet did X-rays and found a collapsed disc in her spine, and commented that her arthritis in her hips and thighs was advancing. We did a course of Prednisone and started with laser treatments and Adaquan injections (admin by our vet). We did the Adaquan injections multiples times the first week, and reduced down to every other week. We tried to reduce to once a month, but Olivia seemed more comfortable at the two-week mark, so that’s where we continued. We do a laser treatment at the same time as each Adaquan injection. We were also given Rimadyl to give as needed – on days where Olivia seemed a little more stiff or sore. This seemed to happen only on rainy days or bath day.

During this time, Olivia’s anxiety was increasing – but, we adjusted. And, she started having some intense colitis episodes. She was prescribed antibiotics and a short-term pectalin supplement. We eliminated all treats and stopped putting chicken, carrots and green beans on her Rx GI food (which we had been doing for some time). We also added a probiotic: Entero Flora Pro to her food. One thing that was interesting to me was that during this time Olivia was eating her bland Rx GI food without any enticement – and she’s always been a VERY picky eater… to the point that I would sing to her, hand feed her, and add the chicken, carrots, green beans – even cheese or peanut butter just to get her to eat. But, now, her food was totally plain and she was gobbling it all down. She was also wanting to eat earlier and earlier in the day. Which I attributed to a “senior thing”. I didn’t even mention it to the vet – I just thought her tummy upset (and lack of treats) left her hungry, and this was a good thing. I was honestly just relieved she was eating without any issues. We finally seemed to have her colitis under control and everything was going along smoothly with our new routine of laser, Adaquan and occasional Rimadyl. On our continual vet visits, we noticed that she wasn’t dropping any weight – even without the treats and extras on her food. So, we ran a detailed thyroid panel – and everything came back normal. Okay, good. We chalked up the lack of weight loss to her age – I mean, I can relate.

Her achy days seemed to be increasing, so she was getting a Rimadyl more often and some where over the course of several months, we just started giving it to her every day with her morning meal. She was definitely more comfortable and had better mobility.

In April, we decided that since she was doing so well, we would schedule a dental. It had been almost three years since she’d had a dental, and her breath & teeth were showing the signs that we really should get that done. Also, I have had to have the vet trim her nails, because her quicks had stopped receding a few years prior. So, while she was in for the dental, we decided to do what they called a “show trim” where they would cut the nails down beyond the quicks and cauterize them. The hope was that this would “reset” her quicks. This was on 4/18 this year. She did perfect during the anesthesia and everything was great – she didn’t need any extractions, and she recovered perfectly, and everything was going along as before.

My husband and I noticed that she was getting hesitant to jump up on our couch (we have a super low pit group that she has always easily jumped up and down from) but decided it was just aging and arthritis and got her some steps to see if that would help. Also – for as long as she’s been with us, in the mornings, I would wake up, carry her from the bed and lay her on the couch – all while she was still mostly asleep. Then we would have to wake her up (she is a pug after all), take her for her walk. I had started noticing that on some mornings when I would wake up, she was already awake, sitting up in bed just waiting for me.

Then, on the evening of May 9th, she started limping a bit – her right front paw clearly bothering her. Thinking maybe she picked up a sandspur or bug bite while outside (we live in Florida), I checked over her paw completely and found nothing wrong. She screeched though when I would touch her pinky toe “equivalent” on that foot. There was no redness or swelling or anything obviously wrong though, and she was otherwise fine so we waited until the morning so we could see our regular vet. They did X-rays and found it was very swollen, but no breaks or fractures, no punctures or anything. We thought perhaps she twisted it or stepped on a rock or something outside. They prescribed Temaril-P (we were told NO Rimadyl while on it) and we were on our way. We were warned that she would most likely drink more water, and because of that need to pee more, but not to be alarmed, that was a normal side effect). That evening, she was panting a bit. I knew there was a small amount of steroid in the Temaril-P, and attributed it that, as she had some panting during the prednisone prescription last year. She was also drinking more, but not excessively. The next night however, her panting was pretty intense and she didn’t seem to be able to settle. I decided to take her to the ER vet, because I was just concerned and didn’t feel good about it. She ended up settling down before we got there, but I had them look her over anyway. Her heart and lungs were good and clear, and they felt she was in very good condition. They felt her foot, and she screamed when they extended her “pinky” toe, but was otherwise in excellent health. I had the doctor look at the Temaril-P pills – just to make sure they were the correct pills and the correct dose (even though I totally trusted my vet, you never know, right?) and they were correct and the ER vet said that is exactly what she would have prescribed. She said that some dogs are very sensitive to steroids and may pant during treatment, and that it was likely just a normal response for her. They said to just keep an eye on her and let them or our vet know if there were any additional concerns. I called our regular vet the next morning, and she was out of town – but spoke to her partner (who was brand new) and he said that we should continue with the Temaril-P and that panting is an acceptable side effect. So, we continued – she was drinking and peeing more, but not scary amounts - but lots of panting and discomfort, especially in the evenings. I also noticed that she stopped laying in her normal spots, which have always been either her bed or blanket (always somewhere soft and comfy) – and was instead laying on the tile or the chair mat next to my desk – hard, cool surfaces – but, we were managing okay, and her foot seemed to be healing. And, then came another bout of colitis. And, Olivia was definitely much more achy and stiff without the Rimadyl, and moaning/groaning a lot when getting up or laying down.

So, on that Tuesday, we were at the vet for our regular laser treatment and Adaquan injection, and so they could recheck her foot. Our regular vet was back, and examined Olivia’s foot and was surprised to hear about the reaction to the Temaril-P but felt that it did a really good job healing the inflammation. She had stopped limping, and wasn’t really even favoring it at all anymore. Our vet said we could stop the Temaril-P and resume the Rimadyl after 24 full hours off the Temaril-P. The colitis was pretty bad, there was a lot of bacteria, and tons of white blood cells in her stool, so they gave us an antibiotic and added a new probiotic to the mix: Synacore. Over the next couple days, Olivia was still panting often, drinking and peeing more, laying on the hard floors and just not seeming to be clearing herself of what I considered the Temaril-P side effects. She also started seeming more scared, fragile, confused somehow and generally unwell. I had put a detailed list together of all the things I had noticed over the last several months – that only now were starting to seem like symptoms, including the food, the confusion, the increased anxiety, being awake in the morning, etc. and emailed it over to our vet’s office on Thursday evening.

Overnight Thursday, she woke in the middle of the night/early Friday morning and I took her out to potty. When I brought her back inside, she seemed very wobbly and unstable. The look in her eyes made me think she was about to have a vestibular episode. So, I hunkered down beside her, prepared to help her get through it. She didn’t end up having one, and laid down to sleep. I kept a close eye on her, just not feeling right about her. As morning came, I got her up to go potty again, and she was very wobbly and unstable, she was trying to be “normal” but didn’t seem able to really control her back legs. She fell over twice – her back legs just seeming to come right out from beneath her. I was sure something neurological was happening. I scooped her up and went straight to our vet and got there just as they were opening. I left her for them to observe and they kept her most of the day. She remained stable, but when I met with our vet that afternoon, she said she was very concerned with how unwell Olivia seemed to be and how she went downhill so fast. They did a full blood panel and put a rush on the results, hoping to have them the next day so we could get an idea of what may be happening. My husband and I loaded her in the car to take her home. When we got home, we took her out of her car seat and set her down so she could go potty, and I noticed that the nail on her “pinky” – the site of the mysterious injury – was completely lifted up and bloody. Somehow this happened on the way home, even though she was sitting stable in her car seat – because it wasn’t that way when we put her in the car. She didn’t yelp or cry or anything either. So, we put her right back in the car and headed straight back to the vet. It was late in the evening and our regular vet had just left, but her partner was still there, and they took her back. Her nail popped off completely while in the back, and they cleaned it, wrapped it and gave her something for the pain, and an antibiotic Rx and we headed home.

The next morning (Saturday), the blood work results were back, and there were no signs of organ failure or anything super alarming, but our vet felt that there were indicators on the results that suggested we test for Cushing’s disease – so we scheduled a drop off first thing Monday for an ACTH Stim test and a bandage change on her nail/paw. On Saturday evening, after coming in from a walk, I noticed that one of Olivia’s back toe nails was a bit lifted from the quick, and had oozed some blood, but was not bleeding. It didn’t seem to be bothering her at all, and the nail seemed stable. I decided not to take her to the ER vet, as that would seem to be unnecessary stress. She was already on antibiotics and it wasn’t bleeding. Then, on Sunday – Olivia had a pretty major vestibular episode. We gave her meclizine, and held her and comforted her until it passed, which it did – after about 2 hours.

On Monday, she went in for her ACTH Stim test. They also cleaned and treated her back toe and said we were right to leave it, and we will just watch it for now. Her bandage was changed on her front paw. We had an appointment on Wednesday for another bandage change, and the results had come in from the ACTH Stim test.

5/22/17
PRE: 13.5 ug/dL
POST: 34.8 ug/dL

Clearly, Cushing’s. We would start Vetoryl the following morning. Starting dose 30mg.

We also had a long discussion about what was going on with her toes. Two potentials: one – that because of the Cushing’s disease, she didn’t heal properly from the nail trim/cauterizing done three weeks prior. Or two: Symmetrical Lupoid Onychodystrophy*(SLO) which is a Lupus-like disease that attacks the nail bed. There is no real test for this other than amputation and biopsy – which of course – isn’t an option. So, we just treat the infection/injury and go from there. Neither nail was getting any worse at this point, but neither was getting any better either. We also started Senilife, a supplement which sometimes helps with senility. We also decided to move the laser and Adaquan injections to once per week. We got topical drops for her back toe, and scheduled her next bandage change on her front toe.

Over the first two weeks on Vetoryl (about a week or so in), we saw a reduction in panting and drinking/urinating was completely back to normal and although still hungry, Olivia started wanting her food “enticements” again. Her achy-ness and discomfort was worse at night, so she started getting her Rimadyl 2x a day. So, she was definitely seeing some mild improvements, but still wasn’t comfortable or feeling very well – she still felt fragile and "off" to me – she didn’t seem comfortable or relaxed. Her back toe remained about the same, no better but no worse, and her front toe finally healed enough to remove the bandage. No nail, no quick left – but, she didn’t seem to mind or notice.

We did her second ACTH Stim test on 6/6. And, the two days following were the best she had in a long time. She laid in her usual comfy beds, lounged around – had big, long, lazy yawns and stretches. Things I hadn’t even realized she wasn’t doing – for who knows how long? The vet didn’t put a rush on the results, so it took several days. In that time, Olivia had one evening where she panted quite a bit – but, then it went away again - BUT she was back to laying on the hard surfaces, seeming to be generally uncomfortable. When the results came back in, the vet said that the results weren’t what she expected to see, but, that she didn’t want to change her dose until she spoke to a specialist/endocrinologist to review Olivia’s case. I didn’t even ask for the numbers at this time, as I was comfortable waiting for the specialist’s opinion.

At the time, water and urination was still back to normal – panting (other than the one evening) was gone – she was spending some time on her soft bed, and sometimes on the carpet – but still spending half the time on the tile or other hard surface. She still wanted enticements to eat, but was back to wanting food earlier in the day again. I still felt she was generally uncomfortable and unhappy, but stable (including no colitis episodes). Hind leg weakness has been better some days, worse the others. Confusion seems to be better, but heightened neediness has stayed the same.

It took a bit to get the consult from the specialist. At this time, I asked for the numbers:

6/6/17
PRE: 15.2 ug/dL
POST: 33.9 ug/dL

So, still extremely high, and the Pre number even went UP.

Also, liver enzymes increased – I don’t know how much, other than before, they were within the normal range.
ALP: 211 (normal 5-160)
ALT: 162 (normal 18-121)

The specialist was concerned that the pituitary tumor may be a functioning MACRO and the suggestion was to double the dose of Vetoryl to 30mg in the morning and 30mg in the evening. The doses to be 12 hours apart, no less than 11 and no more than 13. This would be a big challenge, as she eats no more than 9 hours apart, and is adamant about her feeding time.

The hope was to see some improvement within a week and then retest at 2 weeks to check the numbers. If there was no improvement, the specialist suggested an abdominal ultrasound.

We started the double dose on Saturday June 17th. We are giving her some whole food treats at her normal dinner time, and are able to push dinner and second dose out to 11 hours, but she does a lot of whining in between snack and dinner and is very unhappy about this. With no change her food anxiety, our vet scheduled our ultrasound for this past Friday. An internal medicine vet came in, performed the ultrasound and found no adrenal gland tumors (I guess they were wondering if she could have both pituitary AND adrenal tumors). They did find a lesion on her spleen, that they would normally suggest a needle aspiration/biopsy for - but didn’t recommend that now, as Olivia wouldn’t be a candidate for any surgery or treatment. The internal medicine vet suggests continuing on the double dose and doing the retest to see where the numbers are.

Our regular vet is out of town now until July 5th. We are scheduled for the third ACTH Stim test that day. We are still dealing with infection under her back toe (she’s had two antibiotic shots in the last month) but the nail remains stable. There is a tiny new nail starting to grow on her front paw. Her hind leg weakness is still significant some days, but seems somewhat better on others. We don’t know if this is Cushing’s or Arthritis, or most likely - both. And, this week – her tail has mostly been down, or at half-mast – which, a pug owner knows, this is a big indicator of something being very wrong. She’s still wagging her tail though… it’s just at half-mast. It breaks my heart.

It is my understanding that we are likely looking at a Macro pituitary tumor. We met with our vet’s partner who explained that the only way to know for sure is an MRI – but, again – treatment wouldn’t change with the knowledge, and the expense and stress of the test is unnecessary. I asked what the game plan will be if we still have high numbers on the next ACTH Stim test. He said we could consider increasing her dose again, but that could be risky, as the likelihood of a crash increases significantly and that we’re really running out of options. We had a long discussion about quality of life and paying extra attention to her and how she’s feeling, and listening for her to tell me when she’s had enough.

When we lost Mr. BIG, I put him through a month of hell trying to make him better… and he was miserable and I swore I would never do that again. I decided then that I would rather cheat Olivia out of a few good days or weeks than make her suffer through a terrible end. I want her to go peacefully and as comfortably as possible. I know right now she is not happy or comfortable – but, she’s stable and she still wags her tail and she can still eat and drink and go potty. I just can’t see letting her go yet. But, I’m worried that if I don’t make a decision soon, that she’ll be stuck with only bad days left and I don’t want that for her.

And - I’m so tired, so emotionally, physically and mentally drained. I just want to go back to before we took that damn Temaril-P. It feels like that shot this whole thing into overdrive – and while she was likely Cushing’s before then, things just spiraled from there and I’m afraid we can’t ever go back. My plan is to wait until we can do the repeat ACTH Stim test on July 5th – and see where her numbers are (including liver) – unless something else happens before then.

I’m just really hoping that some of you can share your thoughts with me. Should I really have any hope that her numbers might come down? That she might have some quality time left? Or is this the time I should really be focused on letting her go so that we don’t run right into that terrible wall where it is all bad? Any thoughts, experiences and input is very welcome and truly appreciated.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read our story,
Olivia's Mom: Jenny

labblab
06-26-2017, 08:03 AM
Hello Jenny, and welcome to you and little Olivia! I am surely sorry for the problems that have brought you to us, but very glad you've found us. You've done a great job of giving us a great deal of info to think over, and it may take some time to sort through all the pieces. But first and foremost, we surely understand your worry and also your exhaustion, and we want you to know that we are here now to walk alongside you every step of the way.

This first reply of mine may be somewhat brief as I will want to take the time to re-read your post and consider Olivia's history more carefully. Right from the get-go, though, I am scratching my head a bit about those ACTH results. As you probably already know, the two diagnostic blood tests for Cushing's (LDDS and ACTH) are helpful but imperfect indicators of the actual presence of the disease. Elevated cortisol can result from causes other than Cushing's, and "false positives" are always a possibility. In Olivia's case, I wonder whether her stress level and the frank pain associated with the toe trauma may have skewed those ACTH results. I also wonder about the nature of that tumor on her spleen. Her post-ACTH values were certainly quite high both times, but I have to wonder whether at least some component may have been the result of non-Cushing's factors.

If Olivia were mine, at this stage of her diagnostics and treatment, I honestly believe I'd be more swayed by her outward behavior than by those ACTH numbers. Am I correct that her behavior was more normal when she was taking only the single dose of 30 mg.? If so, I'd report back to your vet that she is looking worse on the higher dose and I'd consider cutting back again for at least a full month of treatment and re-evaluate again at that time. There is an additional reason for that: if she truly suffers from an enlarging macrotumor, significantly lowering her cortisol may actually worsen the neurological issues because swelling and inflammation at the site of the tumor may increase as a result of the lessened circulating steroid.

Quick question: can you tell us how much Olivia weighs?

OK, I will stop for the moment and as I say, take some time to re-read your introduction. But once again, welcome to both you and your little girl!

Marianne

DoxieMama
06-26-2017, 08:30 AM
Jenny, welcome to you and Olivia from me, too! I must apologize for not having much time to reply right now, but wanted to let you know that you are no longer alone! We understand your exhaustion - both mental and physical. My hope is that you will take care of yourself, while doing your best to take care of your sweet girl. We are and will remain right beside you, supporting you as best we can. You're family now!

Hugs, Shana

Olivia'sMom
06-26-2017, 09:01 AM
Thank you so much for your reply, Marianne! I'm very grateful for your welcome and support! I'm also very appreciative of your time to read and re-read my post.

First, Olivia averages about 28 pounds - a half a pound up or down depending on the day (she's weighed at the vet every week).

I hadn't really thought that she is worse on the higher dose... but, maybe you're right - I'll need to think about that a bit - and I appreciate your feedback. It seems to me, there are so many ups and downs, I may not be seeing things with a clear mind.

Her tail went down/half-mast PRIOR to starting the second dose. Just by a day, but it was definitely before. That's been my most worrisome outward sign that she's unhappy. But, she has been on the tile LESS since starting the second dose - more often in her comfy spots, but not 100% of the time (which is the norm prior to the Temaril-P).

Moving her meals to 11 hours apart has been very stressful for her - even with the snack in between - and there's just no way I would push it to 12 hours. Her food aggression/anxiety is still heightened (even though now she wants yummies added) and some days she seems to drink a little more again - but, it is full on summertime. She had a panting episode while on the initial dose, but hasn't had any since (except for right after a walk, which resolves quickly). Her hind leg weakness is up and down, depending on the day. Some days are better, some days are worse. She toppled over twice yesterday - but, we know her arthritis and collapsed disc have to be a factor in this too.

With all of the ups and downs, I guess I would say that overall, she's been a little better since starting Vetoryl, not really any better or worse with the increased dose - but, also not generally better enough that I feel we're making any progress toward giving her comfort and quality of life - but, at the same time, she's stable and not in terrible distress or discomfort - just generally so... if that makes any sense?

Last week, on our regular laser/Adaquan appointment, I asked our vet if we could tell how much pain or discomfort Olivia is in and she told me that based on her physical exam that day, she doesn't feel that she is in any extreme pain and that she thinks we're managing her discomfort very well. Again, I agree with the extreme point, but otherwise, I'm not so sure.

It's so distressing that our regular vet is out of the country now. She wasn't there to discuss the ultrasound results with us Friday, her new partner was. He's new to her practice, but has 18 years experience as a vet. He seems knowledgeable (his own dog is Cushing's) and very kind and generous with his time, but hasn't been on this whole journey with us. But, he, the endocrinologist and the internal medicine vet all agreed to keep her on the double dose for now - so, I'm still leaning that way - for now.

Again, thank you so much for your time, your encouragement and support. Just being able to "talk" about all of this is so helpful.

Jenny & Olivia

Olivia'sMom
06-26-2017, 09:02 AM
Thank you so much, Shana - I appreciate that so very much!!

labblab
06-26-2017, 05:41 PM
Olivia's case is certainly a complicated one! I'm relieved to hear that I misunderstood as to how she's been doing since starting the double dose. As long as she's not exhibiting negative side effects from the dosage change, then I understand your decision to stick with the status quo until the monitoring ACTH testing next week. I wish I had some brilliant suggestions to offer in the meantime :o, but I think we may all need to await those test results before trying to chart the next steps.

While we're waiting, though, please do continue to update us re: any behavioral changes that you may see.

Marianne

Olivia'sMom
06-27-2017, 07:18 AM
Hi Marianne - thank you. I also wish you had something brilliant or magical to share! I just wish I knew, or could understand what is going on inside her little body and how I can help her. I feel pretty helpless.

Yesterday afternoon, she was ridiculously hungry. And, she drank extra water again. Then, last night, she had a small panting episode, not caused by a walk or anything - she had just been laying next to me on the couch. It only lasted a few minutes though, although she was breathing deeper and faster for about an hour or so.

The other issue that is concerning is that she started having some super stinky flatulence. That's usually a sign that a colitis episode is coming. Her stool has been a little soft the last couple of days, but still holding shape, no mucus. But, with the stink bombs, I'm afraid that's going to change.

Is it possible that the Vetoryl just isn't really working for her? But, how could that be? If she does have a macro, could that be fighting the Vetoryl and keeping her levels high enough that she's not having a response to the meds - and no negative response to reduced cortisol - because it isn't reducing?

We are very structured, so she gets her Vetoryl every day at the same time - never more than a 10-15 minute difference from day to day, dose to dose. She always takes it with a full meal.

Today is day 11 on the double dose. We aren't scheduled for the Stim retest until the 5th, which would be day 19. I waited to schedule until our regular vet was back. Should I try and do it sooner? This Friday would be day 14. Or, are there any other tests I should request? I know they will do a blood panel along with the Stim - but, anything else?

We go in today for her weekly laser treatment and Adaquan injection.

I really appreciate those of you who are following along. Any thoughts you have would be very welcome.

Jenny & Olivia

Harley PoMMom
06-27-2017, 11:49 AM
Hi and a belated welcome to you and Olivia from me as well!

Because of my feeble mind and so I can get clear picture of her ACTH stim tests dates and Vetoryl dosages, :o, I'm posting them here:

5/22/2017 ACTH stim test done, results pre - 13.5 ug/dl ~ post 34.8 ug/dl. Started 30 mg Vetoryl on 5/23/2017.

6/6/2017 ACTH stim test: 15.2 ug/dl; post 33.9 ug/dl
Vetoryl dosage increased to 30 mg BID.

The usual recommendation is to not increase the Vetoryl dose until the dog has been on the starting dose for 30 days, this is because a dog's cortisol can continue to drift downward for the first month of treatment. So I am a but concerned that her dose was doubled after being on the Vetoryl for only 2 weeks which could mean that her cortisol has dipped too low or that her cortisol has dropped down too fast which will make them feel really yucky. Either way, just to be on the safe side, I would schedule an ACTH stim test sooner than July 5th to see where her cortisol level is at. How is her appetite? Any loose stools?

Lori

labblab
06-27-2017, 11:58 AM
Hi again, Jenny. At this point, Olivia is not taking an outrageously high dose of Vetoryl since it works out to be about 2 mg. per pound. Since dogs metabolize the drug quite differently, the recommendation is to start with a lower dose -- which you did -- and then start working upward based on symptom relief and ACTH test results. The only really surprising thing thus far is that her first monitoring ACTH test didn't show any decline in cortisol. But she may simply need a higher dose, and it could be increased again, if need be. When Vetoryl was first introduced, an initial dosing range of 1-3 mg. per pound was given. So truly, at this point she is not on a massively high dose and she may just be a dog who requires a higher dose to gain therapeutic relief.

If you don't see any more worrisome changes, I'd think it would be fine to wait until next week to test again. Panting while at rest is a pretty typical Cushing's symptom, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

As far as the effects of a possible macro, I don't think that lack of response to Vetoryl correlates with the size of a pituitary tumor. So I wouldn't automatically assume that's the problem if her cortisol is slow to drop. Symptoms of a macro relate more to neurological dysfunction: loss of appetite and thirst, loss of coordination, pacing, circling, pressing the head against hard surfaces, lethargy, etc. There is some thought that allowing cortisol levels to run higher is actually helpful in the presence of a macro, due to the anti-inflammatory effect on the tumor and surrounding brain tissue.

Anyway, right now I really can't think of any other testing until you proceed with the ACTH and regular blood panel. I know how hard it must feel to have to sit and wait, but let's see what more we find out next week.

Marianne

Olivia'sMom
06-27-2017, 12:01 PM
Hi Lori - thank you for your reply and your welcome to the group! :)

She didn't start the double dose of Vetoryl until 6/17/17 (after the consult with the endocrinologist). So, as of today, she's only been on the double dose for 11 days. I don't think that she is feeling any worse on the double dose - just not really feeling any better. She is NOT lethargic at all.

Olivia's appetite is still very intense. She is very anxious about getting her meals. Yesterday afternoon she was even extra hungry, drank extra water, and even had a panting episode in the evening. She seemed to be extra thirsty this morning as well.

She has had ongoing bouts of colitis for the last few years. Her stool has been stable since starting the Vetoryl though. It has been a little soft the last two days, but still completely holding shape, able to be picked up with a bag and has no mucus or discoloration. She did have some VERY stinky gas last night though - an indication that another bout of colitis may be brewing. *sigh*

Thank you again for your input!
Jenny

Olivia'sMom
06-27-2017, 12:04 PM
Thank you so much, Marianne! Your post was so calming to me just now - and I appreciate that very much! You're right - it's hard to just wait. I want answers and I want to help her RIGHT NOW.

I guess it's just time to take a breath and see how things go. Thank you so much for that!

Jenny

labblab
06-27-2017, 12:05 PM
P.S. I see that Lori and I were typing at the same time. :)

Normally I would totally "second" the recommendation not to increase a Vetoryl dose until the passage of 30 days. The only reason why I am not balking at Olivia's increase is because her monitoring ACTH showed absolutely no downward movement at all after two weeks on her starting dose. Certainly, if it would give you more peace of mind to test again this week, you should go ahead and do it. My thought was just that if she is not exhibiting adverse effects, you'll have a bit better idea as to the true effect of the increased dose if you wait a little longer. But we also have a holiday weekend coming up, so if you wouldn't have convenient access to vet care in the event trouble arises over the weekend, you may indeed opt to test earlier.

Marianne

Olivia'sMom
06-27-2017, 12:10 PM
Thank you again, Marianne! Our vet's office is open every day except Sunday and Tuesday - and we're only 20 minutes away from a 24 hour ER vet hospital, so I do feel comfortable about waiting for now - obviously, in the absence of any changes. Many thanks!!

Olivia'sMom
07-14-2017, 09:19 AM
Hi All -

To refresh:
5/22/17
PRE: 13.5
POST: 34.8

Prescribed 30mg Vetoryl - 1x per day

6/6/17
PRE: 15.2
POST: 33.9

6/17/17 - after consult with endocrinologist, doubled dose to 30mg Vetoryl - 2x per day

6/23/17 - ultrasound: found small lesion on spleen, no adrenal gland tumors

7/5/17
PRE: 17.6
POST: 20.9

So, her resting/PRE number continues to rise, but the post number has gone down some. Waiting on another consult from the endocrinologist.

No real change in symptoms - no healing on toenail sore, hind leg weakness, appetite. Thirst is up and down, depending on the day. No episodes of resting panting though. She also hasn't had a vestibular episode since 5/21/17.

Our vet considers us in hospice care mode now. We are continuing on the 30mg 2x per day of Vetoryl and have added 25mg of Trazodone 2x per day - which has really helped with her anxiety. She continues Rimdayl 2x per day, daily supplements, and weekly Adaquan and laser treatments. Some days are tougher than others with her arthritis discomfort.

Any thoughts would be welcome and appreciated.

Thanks!

molly muffin
07-15-2017, 10:00 PM
It seems that her body is producing the cortisol at a very high rate. If you look at the pre as being what is circulating in the body and then the post as being like a dump of cortisol that is in her adrenal glands. Like a sponge being wrung out, then that is a lot of cortisol. That might be what is preventing the toe from healing.

It is also helping to manage pain, as she will feel better with the higher cortisol, even as it isn't good for her overall.

I don't know what else you can do other than if you wanted to raise the vetroyl again, but I think you have to always consider quality of life too.

Carole Alexander
07-16-2017, 12:10 AM
Hi and a belated welcome from me too. I just wanted to say that you are an extraordinary and caring mom to Olivia; I wish you both moments of joy and loving as you go through this agonizing time.

Olivia'sMom
07-16-2017, 07:31 AM
Thank you, Sharlene - I really appreciate your input - and Carole, thank you for your welcome and kindness!

I guess what concerns me most right now is Olivia's quality of life. We (me or the vet) do NOT want to increase the Vetoryl dose.

I feel like I'm left in this place of limbo, and I'm not really sure what to do. Friday evening, we found another back toenail that is starting to crack. I don't know if this one will end up like the other, as a wound - or if the crack will stay stable. I don't know how much discomfort this causes her (and it worries me to no end). A diagnosis of SLO (Symmetrical Lupioid Onchodystrophy) is pretty clear and I read that it is not uncommon to occur in Cushing's dogs. So, it just makes sense.

I guess my main question - the thing that haunts me is - are we just keeping her here - waiting for some massive stroke or seizure? She does have some quality of life right now... she's still eating & drinking, she loves her treats, she loves her belly rubs and daily brushes - and even though her tail is mostly down or at half mast, she still wags it happily. Walks are difficult, but she still wants to go on them, and loves sniffing around. She, albeit awkwardly, and often with a stumble or two, will still trot across the living room to come to work in the office with me in the morning. She's still alert. I know there is definitely some pain and discomfort, anxiety - the hind leg weakness, the difficulty squatting, moans and groans when she gets up or rolls over - but, she doesn't appear to be truly suffering.

I know loss of appetite and lethargy is usually a sign of declining health that we probably WON'T see because of Olivia's Cushing's. And, I get that a lot of her pain and discomfort is somewhat managed by the higher cortisol levels. So, some of the normal clues of when it's "time" just won't be here in this case. Everyone always says, "you'll know when it's time" - but, will I - when she has almost opposite symptoms?

I really would rather cheat her out of a few good days or weeks if it means I will spare her a catastrophic end - but, I really don't understand how to know if we are there. I don't want to kill her, but I don't want to keep her here, just waiting for a disaster. Both feel cruel and awful, and she's my baby girl and this whole thing is tearing me up.

Can anyone help me understand what happens with a dog that has uncontrollable Cushing's? Could a major stroke or seizure happen at any minute? If it were your dog, would you be considering letting her go sooner than later? What do you do in the absence of typical end of life symptoms?

I could really use some help understanding.
Jenny & Olivia

DoxieMama
07-16-2017, 09:35 AM
Hi Jenny,

I wish I had some answers to ease your heartache. I remember having the same kind of questions with my boy, Visuddha.

My own experience tells me that you WILL know. Regardless of what is going on in her body, you can see that she is still a happy little girl right now. She has some aches and pains, a struggle here and there, but overall is enjoying her days. This is another one of those moments where I wish so much that our pups could talk to us. But watching her as you do, caring for her throughout the day, you may see her struggle more. Or maybe she will be more lethargic, or have inappetance or some other "typical" sign.

I don't know if a seizure or stroke is more likely with uncontrolled Cushings than otherwise. But that could happen regardless, and I think we go crazy trying to predict those possibilities.

Take a deep breath, and spend quality time with Olivia, as I'm sure you are already doing. Enjoy her, as she is, and try not to be too obsessed about it all. (I do realize how impossible that may be right now.) We'll be here any time you want to rant, rave, cry or scream.

Hugs,
Shana

labblab
07-16-2017, 09:44 AM
Hi again, Jenny. My heart truly goes out to you, as treatment decisions can become so very difficult in the face of mounting health issues. As you've already guessed, though, I'm afraid there is no single answer to these very tough questions. It is possible for Cushpups to experience a sudden, acute crisis such as a blood clot or a stroke. However, if the elevated cortisol cannot be managed, more typical is an ongoing progression of chronic deterioration. This can include things like hypertension with associated kidney loss and blindness, progressive muscular degeneration and ligament damage, vulnerability to infection, etc. That's the point where daily quality of life determinations must be made -- is the pleasure in a dog's life still outweighing the negatives? That can be a hard balance to judge, especially since our babies cannot talk and tell us. :o

Given what you're describing in terms of Olivia's behavior, I don't think you need to make a hasty decision barring a sudden downturn or crisis. Ongoing pain management would probably be a key component of the decision if she were mine. And in that sense, my own personal philosophy would be that I'd rather spare my dog increasing suffering if I felt that there were no good options for relief. Pain level can be such a hard thing to judge, though, because dogs can be so stoic. Your vet may be able to offer professional judgement in that regard. I lost my own nonCush girl last summer as a result of increasing orthopedic deterioration that finally resulted in a basic inability to walk. Even at the end, she was still "herself," wanting to eat, and play with a toy. But after taking yet another set of x-rays, our vet agreed it was time, telling us that the orthopedic changes he was seeing simply had to be very painful for her, day in and day out. She no longer was living a "dogworthy" life.

So I'm afraid I have no real answers for you. These decisions are so very hard, and I think often just come down to day-to-day observation in conjunction with your vet's judgement, as well.

Sending many hugs during these tough times,
Marianne

Carole Alexander
07-16-2017, 09:48 AM
Hi Jenny,
I wanted to respond because my dog, Skippy has a macro confirmed by an MRI. It was diagnosed at the end of March after treating him with Vetoryl at increasing doses for five months. He recently received radiation (three treatments) but it is too soon to tell if it has reduced the tumor or swelling in his brain. What I know for sure is that macros are generally pretty slow growing unless they are already at an advanced stage. In the three months between diagnosis and my decision to radiate, his large tumor did not change in size or shape although his symptoms did. He was taken off Vetoryl in March so I don't know, but suspect that his increasing symptoms, i.e., high blood pressure, bronchial pneumonia, increasing rear leg weakness, refusal to walk, were an outgrowth of Cushing's and not necessarily the macro.

As I am certain that you know, there are no definitive answers to the question of the right time to end our dogs' lives. Capacity to care for Olivia and cost of treatment do not seem to be factors in your decision making which is great for you both. I don't think it is likely that Olivia will have a stroke as it is rare for dogs and she doesn't have high BP. While a seizure is possible if she has a large macro, it is not likely life threatening. Do the vets think that continuing to treat with Vetoryl is best right now? I ask because I have read and others on this forum have stated that continuing Vetoryl can increase tumor growth.

I personally don't think there is a"too soon or too long" unless you feel that Olivia is in pain or that her quality of life is so poor that releasing her will be merciful. I agree with you that "you will know when it is time" is a myth. Olivia has chronic and ultimately life threatening conditions that will surely end her life. But, if she continues to enjoy some quality of life, a new normal of sorts, and you can endure the emotional toll of caretaking, and love having her in your life during this journey, then their is no "right time". But if your days are filled with anguish and anticipatory grief and the joy of the Olivia of old is irrevocably erased, it may be healthier for you to release Olivia. I know that you will and have done everything possible to save her and I so commend all of your efforts on her behalf. Olivia is an extremely fortunate pup to have you in her life and I hope that you know that few among us would or could go to the lengths of treatment to which you have gone.

I hope that my comments are not too direct but I have struggled with these questions on so many levels over the past year. I really just wanted to add to your thinking about this decision. My best to you and Olivia,

Carole

Olivia'sMom
07-16-2017, 10:59 AM
Thank you so much: Shana, Marianne and Carole! I really felt heard and comforted and not so alone after reading your responses. It means the world to me, to feel such kindness and love from strangers... but, strangers who know and understand. Thank you so very much! And my heart and love goes out to you in return... for what you are going through with your own furbabies. It makes me appreciate even more that you take your time to share your experience and support with me, who has so little to offer in return.

Thank you also for clarifying that we aren't really at any *increased* risk for a major stroke or seizure.

Carole, I especially appreciated what you said - and your comments weren't too direct at all. Your words resonated so true for me. Especially "if your days are filled with anguish and anticipatory grief and the joy of the Olivia of old is irrevocably erased"

There are days where it does feel just too much - too much for me, too much for her. The days where it feels like too much for me, but she is having an okay day are the days where I feel like a terrible caregiver and that there must be something wrong with me for thinking about letting her go. Then, the days where it feels like too much for her, but I'm feeling good about taking care of her are the days where I feel like I'm being selfish for keeping her here, just because I'm afraid to let her go.

I guess right now, both of us are having good days and bad days. And, it is truly a roller coaster for us both. What all three of you just shared with me this morning helps me feel like this is at least a little more normal to be feeling, and something we all go through to some degree. And, helps me wrap my mind around the idea that letting her go when she still has some of herself left is probably going to be part of our experience. I guess we just take it day by day for now.

We are still waiting on the endocrinologist report, after the last stim test. I'm wondering if he will suggest discontinuing the Vetoryl. I will ask my vet at our weekly appointment on Tuesday.

Thank you again... so very much. That sounds so hollow - but, it truly comes from my heart.
Jenny & Olivia

Carole Alexander
07-16-2017, 09:15 PM
Hi Jenny,
Just a couple more thoughts and questions regarding Olivia. What led your vet and the endocrinologist to the belief that she has a macro? Was it the failure to respond to Vetoryl? I reread your posts and recall that you mention confusion. What else? I ask in large part because five IMS's did NOT think my dog had a macro. Olivia is relatively young for her breed and I worry that the vets may be giving up on her too quickly. BTW, I looked at your photos and she is a beautiful chubette! (Skippy has gained eight lbs. since starting his Cushing's saga last fall.)

Regarding the issues with her toenails. I am not familiar with SLO but whatever the condition, Cushing's will cause her to be a slow healer. That doesn't mean she's in pain. Again, my dog Skippy has had an adenoma on his butt since last November. It is nasty, bleeds every time he's bathed and collects poop sometimes, but it's not causing him any pain. (I haven't had it removed because there have been so many intervening problems.)

My Cushing's expert endocrinologist is emphatic that many dogs cannot tolerate Vetoryl but that Lysodren does work for them.

Final comment: if it is a macro, I would wish that you would at least learn more about radiation. U of FL has an excellent, excellent reputation in radiating macro pituitary adenomas. A dog on this forum named Doc was treated there successfully. I was a "never radiation" person until I was confronted with the macro. I then realized it was the only shot at giving Skippy another year or more of improved quality of life. I still don't know if it will help him but the procedure was painless; he tolerated the anesthesia without an issue and now we wait and see. Yes, it was expensive. But I have wasted far more money on things I care far less about than Skippy. The end!

Carole

Olivia'sMom
07-17-2017, 08:06 AM
Hi Carole - I don't know for sure what the thought process was for the endocrinologist, IM doc and our vet - but, I know that the recurring nature of Olivia's Vestibular Disease is one of the factors (normally, there is only one episode, sometimes two, but recurrences are very rare (especially in the numbers that Olivia has had) and usually related to a tumor(s)). When she had the CT scan they couldn't confirm or rule out any brain tumors, but they did rule out any infections, abnormalities or narrowing of the inner ear that would be the only other known contributory factor in recurring cases like Olivia's.

And, sadly - SLO is a VERY painful disease. Here is a link to one of the blogs I read that gave a very good layman's description: http://germanshepherdhealthproblemshere.blogspot.com/2012/09/hells-nails-symmetrical-lupoid.html It's on a German Shepherd blog site, as it seems most common in that breed.

Both of her back paws have been bothering lately. The one with the clear wound that won't heal and the other with the newly found cracking. I'm concerned that she may be having another "attack" happening at the nail bed, as her feet seem very unstable, especially in the grass and sometimes she'll stop walking (even in the house) to sniff or lick either or both back paws. But knowing if it's the visible issues we see now, or a new situation below the nail bed, or if it's perhaps tingling or pain from arthritis and spinal issues or Cushing's related weakness/degeneration is difficult to discern.

My first reaction to the thought of radiation is that we just can't go through all of that now... it all just seems like too much, and she's been through so much already. Anesthesia is a very scary thing for pugs anyway, and there's some indications that she might be starting with a collapsing trachea (gagging after yawning, inability to complete a yawn) and I just don't know that I can handle risking anesthesia after all we've been through. I'm really trying to keep an open mind though - and hear what you're saying - I'm just having a hard time.

Add to that, late last night she seemed a bit nauseous (licking) and this morning her stool was half the new normal soft-ish and half runny. She's still on all of her probiotic supplements, and she has tolerated the introduction of the treats up until now - and of course, I'm concerned we may have another bout of colitis happening. I'll see how she does through the day today, and we have our regular weekly vet appointment tomorrow morning. This morning, she required some hand feeding to get started eating. She did eat and drink, but it required a fair amount of prompting.

So, that's where we are right now. I really appreciate the dialogue, Carole - it helps to just talk it out - though, I'm not sure I really answered your questions or even responded properly.

All my best,
Jenny

molly muffin
07-17-2017, 09:56 PM
Well, dang. Olivia and you both certainly have some real challenges on a daily basis and that can be frankly, exhausting, both mentally and physically.
I didn't have the same issues with my girl, I had cushings and kidney disease, with high BP and blindness from retnal bleeds. And some days were excruciatingly painful on my part to see her having so many issues and in my mind, having a very clear picture of her as she was, as she should be and not being able to fix it. Frustrating and exhausting. For her, just trying so hard to do the things she always loved and having more difficulty doing them.

You and Olivia face these trials daily and each day you have to determine what does today mean in the over all picture, is she better, worse, maintaining, etc.

I found that I sometimes tricked myself, into thinking a good day was better than it actually was and a bad day not as bad as it might be. So, one option is to start a journal, olivias journal on how she is doing, clinically on each day, just a note maybe and then you can follow that up with your personal thoughts and feelings if you like. But this is something you can look back on and see progression one way or another and we've had members who said this kept them sane when sometimes, you felt like you didn't know and was at this empass of being so overwhelmed that no coherent thoughts would come together to form decisions. Decisions on treatments, reactions, etc

So that is just a thought that might help you. We are here for you and Olivia and any time at all you need to talk something out, we'll listen. We might not have the answers, but we do have broad shoulders and all of us understand how much you love Olivia and are just trying to do what is best for her. It is all we ever want for our furbabies, who are such an important part of our lives.

Big hugs

Carole Alexander
07-18-2017, 05:20 PM
I read the article that you posted regarding SLO. It does indeed sound very painful and clearly is a condition that must be compounded by the Vestibular episodes, the need for Olivia to walk, and your general sense that she is feeling very unwell. I can only imagine your frustration and despair over this situation. It must be very difficult to not feel hopeless in the face of Olivia's multiple conditions, symptoms and her state of being. In no way did I mean to challenge your assessment of the situation or your vet's opinions. I think that in some way I was trying to offer perspective that contained some glimmer of hope that Olivia could overcome or be treated for her various conditions. I do understand that the host of conditions that she is experiencing may constitute a critical mass that may be to complex and intense for one small Olivia to overcome.

I so hope that the Stim results showed some improvement in her cortisol level. Even more, I hope that you can figure out some techniques (and I think the journal is an excellent idea as our day to day memory is so vague) to feel less guilt, frustration and stress regarding Olivia's illnesses. You have and are providing Olivia with excellent care; no one would doubt that any decision to continue her care or to end this journey will be made out of your deep love for Olivia. But, "no one" doesn't count; you must come to accept that you are and will continue to act out of love for Olivia, no matter what.

Carole

Olivia'sMom
07-20-2017, 07:22 AM
Things escalated fairly quickly - downhill. Her difficulty eating increased to where Monday night and Tuesday, it seemed she couldn't figure out how to swallow. Her rear end weakness made it where she had to sit down after a couple steps, couldn't go potty, even with our assistance and she lost another toenail Tuesday night, leaving a raw, bloody stump of her quick open and exposed. She was refusing to eat or drink, and couldn't go potty at all.

Text messages in the wee hours of the morning yesterday - between me and our vet tech (who has become a dear friend) and between her and our vet led us to the decision to help Olivia cross over the Rainbow Bridge yesterday.

I am absolutely shattered. For as much as I have thought about this, and as much as I knew it was coming, I was/am so unprepared to live without her. She has been my every thought of every minute, of every hour of every day for so long - I don't even know who I am without her.

She passed peacefully - with no more pain, discomfort - no more struggles. She was getting all the pets from me, my husband, our vet tech friend and vet, and all of the other staff who were all in tears and sharing their love. She was their princess too. I am forever grateful for the love and care they have provided to her, and to us. I sang to her as she left us - as she took her last little breath, as her heart beat it's last precious time. I told her it was okay, that she didn't need to struggle so hard anymore to stay with me, I promised her that I would be okay. But, will I?

DoxieMama
07-20-2017, 07:49 AM
Jenny, I am so very sorry for your loss. You were the best pug mom for Olivia, providing the best possible care for as long as she needed it. We understand all too well how our babies take every waking minute of our day ... and we couldn't imagine doing anything differently.

And you will be okay, Jenny. My grief for my boy was just as all-consuming as caring for him had been, at first. Each day, each week, it changed. It's still there, as my love for him is still there, but one day I realized that it was... different. And I was okay. You will be, too.

In the meantime, please know that we are here and you are welcome to continue posting... about how you're doing, memories of Olivia, or just to cry and vent if need be. Take care of yourself as best you can for now.

Fly free, sweet Olivia...

Many hugs,
Shana

Carole Alexander
07-20-2017, 08:12 AM
Dear Jenny,
First I am so, so sorry that the end came so abruptly for Olivia although I don't think one can ever prepare for the time, no matter how many times you go over it in your head. You acted to end her suffering out of your deep love for Olivia. Singing to her at the end is incredibly sweet and tender; I believe she heard you and was soothed to know that you were with her.

I believe that you will be okay; not today, tomorrow or for endless days to come because that's not how our minds, our emotions and our grief works. For each of us, healing has its on schedule; grieving is never a straight line. One moment you are okay, the next you fall back into deep despair. I know that Olivia left you with thousands of wonderful memories that I hope will help you through this process. I know that you will find support from so many of us on this forum. We truly understand what you are experiencing and are here for you.'

You gave so much so gladly to Olivia; I believe that she would want you to begin to take care of yourself now although I know that will be so difficult. But, I hope you can do it - for Olivia.

Carole

Joan2517
07-20-2017, 09:46 AM
I am so sorry for your loss...Olivia was such a sweetie! It takes time as Shana and Carole have said. There is no set time to when we stop grieving, and we never stop loving them.

Hugs~

Olivia'sMom
07-21-2017, 12:20 PM
Thank you all, so very much. I'm just so heart broken. But, I wouldn't trade a moment of it for the time I spent with my girl.

molly muffin
07-21-2017, 04:07 PM
I'm very sorry to hear of the loss of dear Olivia. They do leave a very large hole in our lives and take a piece of our hearts with them.

My sincerest condolences

Olivia'sMom
07-22-2017, 08:04 AM
When you wake up in the morning, to the absence of pug snores… when there’s no sleepy, furry girl to carry to the couch. When there’s an array of medicines and supplements all lined up on the counter, but she doesn’t need them anymore - because she’s not there. The empty harness, the empty bowls, the empty beds, the blankets with no little girl to snuggle under. When no one follows you to the office, to the bathroom… when no one is there to reach out for another pet - even though you’ve been petting her for 20 minutes already. When there’s no vet appointment to get ready for, no new treatment to try - and you go over every symptom, every issue and wonder if you missed something that could have helped, that could have saved her. When your heart is so broken, so shattered - and all you want to do is bury your face in her fur, let her sniff your tears, like she has so many times… but you can’t, because she’s not there. When the day has finally come, where you are free to go wherever you want, whenever you want, stay as long as you want - but, leaving the house still feels like you’d be leaving her… and you just can’t bring yourself to do it. And you feel guilty for every time you thought about how nice it will be to be able to travel and be spontaneous some day, when you were pet free - even though you know you never would have traded a minute with her for it - and you know she never felt unloved and that she would never fault you for anything. And, you remember all the good times - and you remember all the hard times… and you know, after watching her decline and watching her struggle - you know it was the right time. She never wanted to give up, but her little body did. And, you let her go, even knowing she wouldn’t have left your side, because she was yours and you were hers - but, because you don’t want to see her suffer, because she’s given you so much and she deserves to be given this… this peace. But, you feel broken, lost, empty - because who are you if you aren’t the mother of pugs? But, you know this is grief… because you’ve been here before. And, you know you would go through it a thousand times over, because it was all worth it, every precious minute… you know.

Joan2517
07-22-2017, 09:09 AM
That is beautiful, and so true. Lena has been gone 1 year and 5 months the other day, and I still feel like that. I still look for her, I still close my eyes and hope when I open them that she will be back with me. I still have all her medicines in a cabinet in the bathroom...I just can't let them go. I love the others, they are a huge comfort to me. When I get annoyed at them, I remind myself that someday they will be gone too, and the annoyance passes.

Time doesn't really heal, it just makes it more bearable...

Truman's Mom
07-22-2017, 02:04 PM
I am so very sorry for your loss. I haven't been on the forum in a while and just read your thread. Your post from this morning is beautiful and heart-wrenching. I have been there and know that I will be again sooner than I would like to be.

While it's true that time heals, it doesn't mean we forget and it doesn't mean that we miss them less...it just means we can move on. One of the most beautiful things about dogs is that they do not feel sorry for themselves, they live in the moment and no where else. They live fully and love unconditionally. The only comfort I can offer is that she will be with you always in your heart.

Bluester
07-22-2017, 03:19 PM
Jenny, I am so, so sorry for your loss.

You were a great mom to Olivia and I believe she not only knew this but listened to you as she felt you there with her one last time telling her both you and her would be okay. I can't imagine your pain and suffering at this time but know we are all here for you.

Laura

PennysDad
07-24-2017, 10:00 AM
I am so sorry for you loss. Mo matter how ready we are...we are never ready.

Please know that we are all with you during this time.

Olivia'sMom
07-24-2017, 01:16 PM
Thank you all, so much. I'm having such a hard time. I know it will get better, and that it just takes time - but, the days seem so endless right now. I wish it were easier to just focus on the love and the gratitude I have for all the years we did have together, all the love we shared. It feels so selfish to be wallowing in my own grief, and I just want to honor her memory with all the love and joy she brought into my life. It's just so hard right now... but, I'm truly grateful for all of the love and support I found in this group. Thank you so much!

Carole Alexander
07-24-2017, 10:57 PM
Jenny, I wish that we could all surround you with healing thoughts and wishes that would help you endure and ultimately survive this pain. While I know that in time you will grieve Olivia's passing, there is just no easy way forward as you learned from Mr. Big's passing. But please know that we all understand your grief and are here from afar for you. Please keep posting as your earlier post about "missing Olivia" was so beautiful. I hope that it was therapeutic for you to write. Nearly all of us know how hard this is; we've been there and are here - for you.

Carole

Olivia'sMom
07-25-2017, 07:35 PM
Thank you so much, Carole. It means so much to me that you guys truly care and understand. And your kindness and generosity with me - especially with everything you and others are going through with their own fur babies - in just the short time I've been here has meant so much to me.

I'm hoping that Olivia's ashes will be ready tomorrow. I just want her home with me. I just feel kind of stuck right now... waiting for her to come home, where she belongs.

molly muffin
07-26-2017, 05:20 PM
yes we do know how hard it is and how hard it will continue to be. Just not every moment maybe, but it does sneak in, that grief and missing them and wanting them to be there.
My molly passed just over 10 months ago and I still miss her, still cry for her and for myself to be honest. Just not every day. It's okay to miss them and to hate that they are gone and feel angry and sad and all those other jumble of emotions. It's all natural and only time makes the pain not as sharp.