Calcinosis cutis caused by long term prednisone (Roxie has passed)

[Cindyandroxie]

Hi. I hope I'm doing this right. I'm seeking help for Roxie who was diagnosed with calcinosis cutis. Hers is pretty bad. Been 3 months now. She also has mast cell tumors which is why she was on a low dose of prednisone for over a year. Anyhow as her skin is healing she is getting what I call a sheet of armor on her back. Is anyone familiar with this and will it eventually dissolve? I currently have her on cytopoint shots to control itching. She gets probiotics and a wealth of immune boosters for her mct. I did not do chemo and chose diet to treat along with benedryl and Pepcid. Pred was part of it but not anymore. Any guidance would be great. I'm using dmso 70% with 30% aloe currently

[DoxieMama]

Hello and welcome to you and Roxie, though I'm so sorry for the reasons you've found us. I do not have any experience at all with CC but there are others here who have; hopefully one of them will be by to provide suggestions before too long!

[skinnybonedog]

HI, I am going through this very thing right now. My dog is waiting for her punch biopsy reports to come back this week but we are pretty sure it is CC due to long term Temaril-P use. CC suspected on both shoulders, a little on her back and butt and chin. It has been 5 days since she had her last tapered does of steroid and she is itchy as heck with the CC "healing". It is going down, there is more space between the individual lesions and they are more defined now. But yes, when it first started it was like little mini shells where it was forming. Now her skin can be rolled and is softer. I put alot of stuff on it though but have no way of knowing if it is helping or resolving on it's own. They are not breaking out through her skin like many dogs with CC experience and I can only attribute that to the reason she got it in the first place, from the steroids. So once I tapered the steroid it no longer was progressing to a worse stage like many with CC. Duoxo is very helpful. The shampoo 2 x per week and I also started her on the Spot-on drops that seem to help but for only short periods of time and it is only supposed to be used 1x per week but I use it each time after her 2x weekly bath. There are photos of her in my album if you want to see what her skin looks like. I am trying to get Minocycline but no pharmacy has the strength and form my vet wanted....there is a report of it helping with CC in the case of iatragenic cushings. I am holding off the DMSO for now but would love to hear if you feel it is helping. How do you feel the Cytopoint is doing for the itching? I am concerned about the effects it will have on the immune system long term. Hang in there....

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Roxie! :)

Sadly, CC is one of the harsher complications of elevated cortisol. Since Roxie seems to have Iatrogenic Cushing's, meaning it was caused by outside forces like the pred, hopefully she will heal much faster with the pred stopped. CC can be caused by other factors but elevated cortisol is one of the prime causes.

One of our members has a Pug who had severe CC. You can learn a great deal from Renee and her baby, Tobey. Here is a link to their thread - https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5908

Others will be along soon to chat with you and share what they know and/or have experienced. I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time passes.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Cindyandroxie]

Hi everyone and thanks for responding. To answer your questions the cytopoint is definitely helping the itch. She itches a little but not near as much as she was.
Dmso. I'm using the 70% dmso. 30% aloe Vera gel. It seems to be doing something. As it seemed to soften an area in the middle of her back.
Reading the other post however raised some additional questions. She has 2 3 x6 inch areas on each side of her vertebra that is hard silver looking. I noticed several comments where there is peeling and nvolved. Are you talking about that or the skin a hair peeling. I'm trying to figure out what stage we are in. As some healed over softly and some is hard as a rock like a platelet.
She has a lesion in her ear I call it where the ball is and that bothers her the worst. I don't know what to do to keep that itching stoped. The cytopoint isn't helping that. She is not scratching it but shakes her head constantly. And I'm worried she will get a hematoma on her ears. She is wearing a dew rag wright now to keep her ears from flapping.
We use doux chlorehexidine shampoo and spray. Spray daily. And on her tumor. I don't know how to post pics or see anyone's pics. Is there a secret?
Also. Does anyone know what percent dmso to use? Is mine not strong enough?
Thank you in advance.

[skinnybonedog]

Here is Morgan's album. I need to take some updated shots.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1180

[skinnybonedog]

I know it helps Morgan when I "scratch" the areas for her. So maybe if you rub in some duoxo spray on the ear lesion and just gently rub rub rub to help with the itch. I know some dogs seem to have pain with CC but I just see that it is incredibly itchy and takes alot of attention to keep her from messing with it and when I can not keep an eye on her I put an inflatable collar on her which I love SO much more that a cone and she prefers it as well. I guess I am "lucky" as this did not get on her face, in her folds or in her ears....as I can see how that could be more problematic.

[Cindyandroxie]

I just posted pics to Roxie. https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1181
Hers doesn't seem painful either just itchy. I use a zen collar on her which is deflatable. I just bought some onesies for her from tulanes closet. Omg. They work great. Kept her from getting at her tumor and protected her skin. I actually didn't put the cone on her all weekend. I have her cone on today since I'm at work. These Jammie's are for post surgery. I bought another pair today.

I hopping someone here as some experience with dmso as the 2 plaques are huge and I don't know what to expect

We do not have Cushings. I have noticed a lot of the Cushing symptoms are the same as prednisone symptoms though.

[labblab]

Hi Cindy -- welcome to you and Roxie! In answer to your question about posting pictures: after you've logged in, click on the small "User CP" button at the upper left-hand side of any page. This will open up your personal User Control Panel, and on the menu bar there, you'll see "Pictures & Albums." If you click on that topic, you'll be able to follow prompts that will enable you to create a photo album and upload pictures. Good luck, and let us know if you have any problems.

Marianne

P.S. Edited to add that I see you successfully set up your album. Good job! Poor little Roxie, though -- that indeed looks like classic CC :o. And just to clarify the terminology we're using, when a dog exhibits Cushing's-like symptoms that are caused by supplemental steroids such as prednisone, the diagnosis that is given is "Iatrogenic Cushing's." This is because the symptoms are identical -- it's just the cause that differs (naturally-occurring cortisol elevation vs. steroids that are introduced from outside the body).

[skinnybonedog]

Wow, that is pretty extensive. I sure hope it all resolves when the pred is out of her system. Thanks for the info on the onesie. Might help Morgan. She has a T shirt but she gets a leg through it and then it rubs right on her zombie skin patches.

[Cindyandroxie]

Thank you for that clarification. That's definitely makes since. I hope some here can help me. There isn't too much out there on thevweb as to what to do about it and course of action

[Cindyandroxie]

I will post a pic of Roxie in her onesie
:)

[skinnybonedog]

My vet thinks that once the steroid is out of her system, the CC will slowly resolve, as long as there is no other underlying cause. He did ask if anything odd was happening since discontinuing the Temaril because the steroid can mask other issues going on. And she is now having a problem with her back leg....almost as if it falls asleep when she has been laying down for awhile. My hope is that is was from her jumping off the couch at a bad angle a few days ago. But I am worried. So you could be in the same situation, and once the pred is gone gone, the CC will slowly resolve. It will not go away quickly....

[Cindyandroxie]

Ugh. I need it to go away quicker. I need to get a tumor off of her before it bursts. Why was you baby on steroid?

[skinnybonedog]

Morgan was on the steroids for allergies. Classic itchy dog but not horrible and if I had it to do over again, of course I would do something different. I feel horrible and I KNOW better, I used to be a vet tech and know that steroids are potentially a problem but Temaril is such a low does I thought I could cheat reality. She was only getting 1-2mg per DAY which is really really low. But years of it I guess caught up to us and I feel totally responsible and horrible and hope I have not done permanent damage to my amazing dog.

[skinnybonedog]

And oddly, it came up SO very quickly. I thought it was a pinch that my other frenchie gave her in a fight and when it did not heal in a week and started getting hard (like a shell) I started to wonder what the heck was going on. Then the vet mentioned "cancer" and I was like WHAT, in a week, she erupts in cancer. And then it appears on the other shoulder and I was on the phone with the vet practically begging him to tell me that since it was on both sides, it was not cancer, RIGHT??? And he agreed it did not seem to be cancer now that it was on both sides. But we are still waiting for the biopsy.....but I totally understand wanting it to go away NOW. It is a daily reminder of how I failed her and I just want to fix it.

[Cindyandroxie]

You can't think like that. You did what you could to make her happy and it did. She will get past this set back. I went with cytopoint for her itch. Roxie only has ragweed allergies so has only ever used benedryl and spray stuff for that. Cytopoint is new but I have friends with mast cell tumors who have there dogs on it for their allergies. No adverse reaction and immune is n good health. Get you baby on probiotics and fish oil it will help with allergies. Allergies are hystiocytes protecting your babies body. Mast cell tumors are filled with histiocytes. Fight allergies from the gut first. :)

[skinnybonedog]

Oh, just being honest how I feel.....I feel so bad she is going through this because I thought I could cheat reality. She is a sensitive girl clearly. Many other dogs might not show any issues from doing exactly what I did. But now I just have to fix it and learn from my mistake.

[molly muffin]

Hi and welcome. I'm not sure about the percentage of dmso but you can always ty different strengths and see if there is any difference. I wouldn't probably go over 80% personally just because it is a fairly strong chemical.

The thing about cc is that it Always gets worse before it gets better. So hang in there. All the calcium deposits will need to come up through the skin. The key is getting rid of those and having no new deposits develop. Which they shouldn't after not being on steroids.

However cc is one of the longest to clear up as skin, hair cycles have to be rotated through and can take months.

I think you are both being very proactive for your furbabies.
Love those onesies.

[Cindyandroxie]

Hi molly. Are there any photos of other pups with various stages of calcinosis cutis? She really isn't getting any other new spots. But I guess what worries me is the huge plaque of calcification. I don't know if it is supposed to peal off or just disapate back into her skin

[Cindyandroxie]

What does anyone use for the itch on calcinosis cutis. I just want to cry and scream. She was doing so well. Today we are back to scratching.

[Harley PoMMom]

Renee, a member here, is our resident expert when it comes to CC, she and her sweet Tobey have had a couple rounds treating that CC. I'm including a reply she posted to another member who was also dealing with CC:


Hi there,

Just checking in to share with you my experience and knowledge on CC.

I am sorry your girl is suffering so bad. I can truly relate, as my girl had lesions all the way down her back before we got things controlled.

Firstly - there is no cure for CC, other than lowering the cortisol. What I am unsure about with your girl, since her's is induced by pred rather than traditional cushings, is how low her cortisol needs to go. In a normal dog suffering from traditional cushings, the cortisol needs to come into therapeutic range of below 5 ug/dl and stay that way long-term. In a dog that has CC induced by pred, assuming traditional cushings is not at play, I would make a best guess that just getting off the prednisone will lower her into the appropriate range her body would naturally be at.

There are many different ideas about what may help or not help with CC. My personal opinion, through trial and error, is that DMSO is a complete waste of time. It smells horrific and I found absolutely no significant improvement that made it's use worthwhile.

Instead of DMSO, I would suggest a combination of tea compresses on the lesions, tramadol for pain (if that is an issue), and adding probiotics to her meals. You'll probably need to run a course of abx on occasion, as the lesions are highly susceptible to secondary infection. There is also a topical spray some have used, but I cannot think of the name off the top of my head.

Some people have used medicated weekly baths, but I felt that too much moisture was actually detrimental, and I never bathed my girl until she healed up somewhat. The lesions will crack, bleed, ooze, look raw and angry. Getting them wet is the last thing they need. You'll know you are heading in the right direction when they begin to dry out and flake, rather than ooze and be angry.

Keep in mind, even as you wean her off the pred, the lesions that are below the surface will continue to come up and break through. It will go through many stages. It will take months for the lesions to run their course and heal up, and that is only if you get her cortisol into proper range.

I see I've typed a lot, so I hope this can help you for now and gives you some hope.


And when you have some time on your hands, I'm providing a link to her thread: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5908&highlight=calcinosis+cutis

She also took pictures of her Tobey at various stages of CC, you can check them out here: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=805[/URL]

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

The tea compresses might help with itching. I know Renne did that and Dawn with Buttercup.

I'm wondering about maybe a chamomile tea.

[Cindyandroxie]

Roxie passed away this morning from a mast cell tumor. I want to thank if all you for your ideas about the calcinosis cutis. I beleave the dmso helped with the inflammation the apoquel and cytopoint helped with itching. Ultimately it was time and diet. Bless you and your pups and thank you again

[labblab]

Dear Cindy,

It is with great sorrow that I saw your reply posted on Morgan's thread. I have taken the liberty of also placing a copy here so that all our members can join you in honoring sweet Roxie, and we can also offer our support to you. I know that words can't help a lot at such a sad time, but we hope that it may bring you some comfort to know that Roxie is now joining our other angels on our special memorial thread:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8383

You did everything within your power to help her, and she is now at peace. But we can imagine that the coming days may be rough ones for you. Please know that we are always here, and we hope you'll return to us any time you want to talk or share special memories of your precious girl.

Sending tons of hugs your way,
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

I am so sorry to hear about your sweet girl, Cindy. You were a great mom to her and she knew that as well as we do. I know she flew from this life on the wings of your love and she will hold that love til you meet again.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Trinket, Sophie, Fox, Bud, and all our angels



I'm Still Here

Friend, please don't mourn for me
I'm still here, though you don't see.
I'm right by your side each night and day
and within your heart I long to stay.

My body is gone but I'm always near.
I'm everything you feel, see or hear.
My spirit is free, but I'll never depart
as long as you keep me alive in your heart.

I'll never wander out of your sight-
I'm the brightest star on a summer night.
I'll never be beyond your reach-
I'm the warm moist sand when you're at the beach.

I'm the colorful leaves when fall comes around
and the pure white snow that blankets the ground.
I'm the beautiful flowers of which you're so fond,
The clear cool water in a quiet pond.

I'm the first bright blossom you'll see in the spring,
The first warm raindrop that April will bring.
I'm the first ray of light when the sun starts to shine,
and you'll see that the face in the moon is mine.

When you start thinking there's no one to love you,
you can talk to me through the Lord above you.
I'll whisper my answer through the leaves on the trees,
and you'll feel my presence in the soft summer breeze.

I'm the hot salty tears that flow when you weep
and the beautiful dreams that come while you sleep.
I'm the smile you see on a baby's face.
Just look for me, friend, I'm everyplace!

Author Unknown

[Bluester]

Cindy, so very sorry for your loss. You and Roxie are in my thoughts and prayers.

Laura

[Joan2517]

Oh, Cindy....I am so sorry to hear this sad news about Roxie. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[DoxieMama]

I am so sorry for your loss. Run free, sweet Roxie girl.

[Carole Alexander]

Dear Cindy, I hope that you know that you did everything possible to help your girl; I know that she knew. My sympathy.

[molly muffin]

Oh cindy I am very sorry to hear this news. My sincerest condolences. :(