Sandy, 8.5 y/o toy poodle - Just diagnosed; significant pain

[Sandaluchi]

Hi I just joined the forum. I'm new to this and I apologize if I don't do this right.
Sandy is a 8 1/2 Toy poodle.
She weighs 15 lbs. I took her to the Vet March 8 for excessive panting and excessive pain and shaking. Vet ran blood and urine test. This past week it was confirmed that she has Cushings. He prescribed Vetoryl Capsules 10 mg, 1 tablet every other day for 7 days, then 1 tablet once a day for 30 days and then go back for followup.
I just started her on the pill yesterday, and tomorrow I will give her another pill. She is very depressed, unable to walk, when she walks she seems disoriented, her eyes are droopy. She cannot step up to her bed.
For pain Vet prescribed Tramadol 50mg 1/4 tablet 3-times a day as needed. She is in constant pain. Her back is arched, she's panting and shaking at the same time. She cannot lift up her head or turn, her neck for it hurts. She licks her bowl clean, drinks little water.
When I give her the Tramadol she stops shaking and is lying down for up to 4-hrs and then she gets up again and the pain cycle starts.
I cannot bear to see her like this, she's normally very playful.
I give her steamed vegetables with her dry food and she licks her plate clean.
I have researched and I'm trying everything to help her, now I'm overwhelmed with all the research.
I need your help so I don't overdo things. Is it OK that
I give her 1/2 tspn Black Seed Oil once a day.
Milk Thistle 175 mg split in 1/2 and sprinkled on her dry food, twice a day.
Also today I gave her 1/2 Pepcid AC 10mg for bloating.
Doctors Foster & Smith Joint Care Extra Strength 1/2 soft chews
I'm loosing my mind. I don't know what to do. Please help.

[labblab]

Welcome to you and Sandy, although I'm very sorry you are having such a hard time right now. You'll see that I've moved your post so as to create a thread that's your very own -- this way, it'll be much easier for our members to reply to you directly.

It sounds as though Sandy's pain is your top priority right now, and I'm honestly not sure how Cushing's is part of the picture. From what you've described thus far, Sandy does not exhibit any overt symptoms that are consistent with Cushing's other than panting, and pain alone could account for the panting. Can you tell us why your vet thinks Cushing's is involved? Significant pain could elevate cortisol levels on lab tests, thus returning "false positives" on Cushing's blood or urine tests. But what made him suspect Cushing's in the first place, and what does he think is the source of Sandy's pain? Has she had any x-rays or other imaging performed?

I apologize for so many questions, but your answers will help guide us on the path forward. And once again, welcome to you both!

Marianne

[Sandaluchi]

Thank you for your reply. And Thank God for You!

I appreciate the help in setting up a new thread for me.
I hope I will catch on and be better at this soon.
Thank you in advance for your patience :o)

Diagnosed based on Urine Cortisol: Creatine Ratio, blood draw and x-ray. I will contact his office tomorrow for Test Results and post the numbers.
Sandy has a potbelly, dark spots on her skin, small tumors here and there
Also Apoquel 3.6 mg was prescribed because she had itchy paws and had licked them raw. However ever since she has been taking Tramadol she stopped licking her paws.

[Sandaluchi]

Because of the itchy paws I purchased a dog food on Amazon called P.S. Grain Free LAMB RECIPE for Dogs with Sensitivities, I added it sparingly to her food "Wellness" Small Breed Turkey, Grain Free.
This is the only change I can think of, but this was after the X-ray that showed an enlarged liver. After that I followed up with blood & urine tests.

[DoxieMama]

Welcome to you and Sandy from me, too. I'm so sorry to hear that Sandy is in so much pain. I would be hesitant to treat Cushing's until determining exactly what's going on to cause that, as Marianne said, pain could cause the cortisol level to rise. So there's no way of being sure of a Cushing's diagnosis until the source of that pain is identified and stopped. We will be very interested in knowing any abnormalities that showed in the blood tests and x-ray.

[molly muffin]

Welcome to you and Sandy.

I agree with Marianne and Shana, any problem causing pain could cause an increase in cortisol.

What did the xrays show? Any problem with spine, discs?

Did they do blood work? Based on symptoms, my first thought was acute pancreatis symptoms. (that of course is just an initial thought and blood work would confirm or rule it out) I'm not saying cushings isn't possible, but it may not be the primary cause of pain you are seeing.

I'd also if possible do an ultrasound to check internal organs.

Because you don't normally give cushing meds to sick pups, I would want to rule out all possibilities before going down that road.

[Sandaluchi]

Thank you All for your help and support, I thought I was going to loose my mind. Very stressful week for Sandy.
Tramadol was not helping and Sandy was feeling worse so I sought out another Vet.
She confirmed that Cushing's is not the reason for her pain.
She said Sandy has a pinched nerve in the neck and spine area.
Dr. gave her a shot of Morphin to ease the swelling, as she was delirious with Pain. She said in addition to Tramadol to give her Rimadyl and Methocarbamol. Sandy is much better now, her pain is not completely gone, the Dr said to give it some time.
THANK YOU All Forum Members and Staff.
Thank you for empowering us with your knowledge and Thank you for your support.
I stopped giving Vetoryl after the 2nd pill. I did not like Sandy's reaction to the pill. She looked totally spaced out. I called her initial Dr, and he said that the reaction was normal (not to me).
As long as she's not in pain, I would like to focus on herbal remedies for her Cushing's problem.
A friend recommended Dragon Herbs, Rehmannia Six Combination Dietary Supplement (I mentioned it to my Vet, she said never heard of it) I bought it on Amazon. Warning label on the bottle says "this product will expose you to lead". I did not give it to Sandy yet.
I want to try Herbal remedies (any suggestions)?

[labblab]

Honestly, at this point in time, I would not add any new herbs or supplements aimed at treating Cushing's. For what it's worth, I've never heard of the herbal supplement you bought, but the lead warning would keep me from ever giving it to Sandy. Lead is not good for either dogs or humans!

But the broader issue is that I don't think you have yet established that she even has Cushing's. As we talked over earlier, any diagnostic lab tests could give you "false positives" simply because of Sandy's extreme pain. She may not have Cushing's at all, and even if she does, it is a very slowly-developing disease that you needn't rush in to treat in the absence of a confirmed diagnosis or obvious observable symptoms.

I would follow your new vet's advice and give the pain-killers some time to do their work. Once Sandy's pain is stabilized, you can then revisit the Cushing's diagnosis later on down the road if her symptoms seem to warrant it.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

I agree with marianne.

First I would get this pinched nerve taken care of and once that if okay and she is no longer in any pain, then if there are any symptoms persisting that suggests cushings, I would do a new LDDS test, for example.

The thing is that pain like that can cause a host of other issues that are in fact a direct result of the pain and main issue, including increased cortisol, a bodies natural reaction to trying to help with the pain.

So I too wouldn't introduce anything herbal or otherwise to try and control the cortisol levels right now until you know they aren't related to the pain.

Kudos to you for seeking out another vet who was able to find out what the problem was. I'm not on board with the previous vet missing that at all!! It's a pretty big thing to miss, and then to say Sandy's reaction to vetroyl was normal, uh...no. it is normal however, if you consider the possibility that Sandy doesn't in fact have cushings. Which is one reason you always eliminate all possibilities before introducing cushings medication.

Baby steps and lets get Sandy feeling better first. You're on your way! and again, Kudos!

[Sandaluchi]

How do I post blood tests and x-ray?

[Sandaluchi]

Thank you very much for all the advise. I will wait and not try to rush her healing process. I have obtained the lab results from both Dr's but not sure how to post.
Since this is a forum for Cushing's I will not take up too much of your valuable time. After Sandy has completely recovered, I will take her to the Vet to test her again for Cushing's.
Thank you and Happy Mother's Day :)

[labblab]

You and Sandy are now members of our family, no matter what! ;)

So please feel welcome to stay with us and ask any questions you want. As far as Sandy's lab results, probably the easiest thing is just to go ahead and type out any abnormal results in your reply. You only need to give us results that are marked as being high or low or out of range. You can type in Sandy's number, and then next to it, type in the reference range that is given on the lab sheet.

Just let us know if you have problems or questions about doing this, OK?

Marianne

[Sandaluchi]

Sandy was scratching her neck early Saturday morning. I thought her ears were itching. I picked her up and found a big wound under her neck.
She had an ingrown tumor, she had been picking at it over night and she bleed it out. And what do you know her pain went away just like that. It was not Cushings nor a pinched nerve.
Poor Sandy :(
Since the Vets were of no help to her, she took matters in her own paws and healed herself. No more pain, no more panting and pacing in agony.
And no more meds. Best Mothers' Day Gift Ever!!!
Thought I might share my story with you, specially since it has a happy ending :)
THANK YOU and May you all have a Happy Story too!!!
Love Sandy

[Budsters Mom]

Wow!!! That is an amazing story!! So glad she's better. :p

[Sandaluchi]

Please forgive me, apparently I suck at replying to threads. I did not see some of your replies until after I posted my message.
Thank you for accepting Sandy & I as Family. And Thank you for your prompt replies.
Now that Sandy is better, I will have time to learn to navigate the forum and get a little at this :) Thank you for your patience!

[DoxieMama]

Wow! Amazing that wasn't found earlier. Way to go, Sandy!

[Sandaluchi]

I took Sandy in for another Check up. Vet checked her glads, no more swelling. No trace of pain, just the open would on her neck. Vet said it must have been a severe allergic reaction to a Spider bite. I am having the Pest Control people spray my house tomorrow.
Phew!!!

[molly muffin]

Well go Sandy. Self diagnosis and taking care of it. This is excellent news!!! And yay for no more pain, as that was the main thing.

We do love happy ending stories and you are still always welcome here. Family is family after all. :)