10 y/o Goldendoodle with Cushing's

[GoldenDoodle]

Hi all, I am new to the site. Came across it when searching for more information on Cushing's in dogs as our goldendoodle has recently been diagnosed. Although he didn't have any blood work done, he matches all the characteristics of cushing's in dogs (extreme thirst, drinking, urination, fatty deposits, pot-bellied, hair loss).

Our vet recommended that we do not do any treatment, as she thought he was better off without it.

Now, Logan (our doodle), has had chronic ear infections and extreme production of wax. Is this due to the cushing's? He also is very sensitive to certain foods, we believe he has an allergy to poultry as when he eats it he gets extreme diarrhea. Would cushing's play a role in that??

My main concern as of now is his skin... it is very flakey and dry, almost like a crust on his back. This is the worst I've seen it. The vet gave us a medicated shampoo but I find it is not helping, or perhaps even making it worse. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm looking for some advice on how to treat it, take it away, because he is so itchy and uncomfortable.

Thanks!!

[spdd]

There are many experts on here that are experienced and will be along to help but why did your vet say not to treat cushings? If you haven't had any blood work or testing done, then you wouldn't know if it is cushings or not. Either way... I think you should ask your vet why no testing and no treatment. Sorry.... but it sounds to me possibly they have no experience with this disease. Never heard ever of a vet not recommending treatement. The least they could do is send you to another experienced vet if that is the case.

[Joan2517]

Welcome from me, too. How old is Logan?

[labblab]

Hello, and welcome from me, too! At age 10, I'm guessing a retriever like Logan is now entering his senior years. That being the case, there may be pros-and-cons to Cushing's treatment that you'd want to think over. You might decide not to treat, but I'm also disappointed that your vet is not discussing the options with you more thoroughly. Like Judi, that makes me wonder whether perhaps your vet doesn't have very much experience with treatment.

Obviously, you would first have to pursue diagnostic testing before proceeding with any treatment plan. But in my own mind, the decision whether or not to treat depends on a number of factors: age of the dog, apparent discomfort, severity of symptoms (both external and internal), etc. Cushing's is typically a slowly developing syndrome, and the decision to actively treat may come sooner or later in the process. The primary goals of treament are to control the troublesome observable symptoms (things like excessive thirst, urination, hunger, panting, muscle wasting), and also to halt/delay silent internal damage. Untreated Cushing's can make dogs more vulnerable to things like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, protein-losing kidney disease, blindness (as a result of high blood pressure), pancreatitis, ligament damage and slow healing, chronic infections and skin issues, GI disturbance, etc. Not every dog will suffer from all or even many of these issues, but the disease can make them happen.

Since the damage usually occurs over time, my own opinion is that I don't worry so much about the "silent" damage in a dog who is already elderly. My biggest concern for a senior dog is immediate quality of life. So if the overt symptoms are making the senior dog uncomfortable, I would treat. Otherwise, I might choose not to treat, especially if my senior dog suffers from inflammatory conditions like arthritis that may actually be soothed by the elevated cortisol level of Cushing's. Treatment also involves frequent vet visits and blood draws, especially at the beginning. So again, if vet visits are really stressful for a senior dog, I'd also factor that in.

However, for a younger dog, I would be equally as concerned about the silent internal damage. I would want to give my dog as many quality years of life that I could, and that would mean putting a stop to the development of the internal systemic damage as well as relieving the uncomfortable outward problems.

Turning specifically to Logan, yes, Cushing's can make dogs more vulnerable to infections of all kinds, including ear infections. But it is your description of his skin that has me feeling the most nervous of all. There is a particular skin condition called Calcinosis Cutis that can strike dogs who have elevated levels of steroids/cortisol in their body. This condition can explode and worsen very quickly, and can make the dog miserable. From a quality of life standpoint, this may be one of the very worst symptoms of the disease. Logan may simply have some other type of skin issue or infection, but please take a look at these photos of dogs with confirmed CC. If Logan's skin looks like this and both Cushing's and CC are confirmed, then I absolutely would want to pursue treatment to bring cortisol levels down. A biopsy of skin tissue is required to confirm the diagnosis of CC, but let's first see whether his skin resembles these pictures at all.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=995

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=805

Marianne

[Joan2517]

Welcome from me, too. How old is Logan?

Duh! It's in title~

My teacup poodle, Lena always had wax buildup in her ears. When she lost her hearing in 2013, I felt so guilty thinking it was because her ears were always dirty no matter how hard we tried to keep them clean. Maybe it was the Cushing's after all...she was diagnosed in 2015 and was 14, almost 15 at the time.

[GoldenDoodle]

There are many experts on here that are experienced and will be along to help but why did your vet say not to treat cushings? If you haven't had any blood work or testing done, then you wouldn't know if it is cushings or not. Either way... I think you should ask your vet why no testing and no treatment. Sorry.... but it sounds to me possibly they have no experience with this disease. Never heard ever of a vet not recommending treatement. The least they could do is send you to another experienced vet if that is the case.

I'm not quite sure why she said no treatment. We had taken him in initially for antibiotics for his ear infection and we brought up his increased urination and thirst. She said she thinks it's cushings. I have to agree with her though, he really does match all the symptoms. I do realize that blood work would confirm this, however she didn't offer it and we didn't think anything of it otherwise.
You are right though, perhaps a second opinion would be best.

[GoldenDoodle]

Marianne,

Thanks so much for your insight. Logan is a happy guy, he does not seem to have a decrease in his quality of life. We have noticed these symptoms for quite some time now, maybe 4-5 years. However, with his skin I notice that he is uncomfortable and of course I want to make this better for him.

Looking at the pictures you've linked, it does look slightly similar... less intense though. I will try to attach some pictures so you can have a look. His skin looks more like the boxer's. Logan has cow spots (as we call them) on his skin, nothing raised. Is that a symptom of cushing's? In regards to the raised bumps that the boxer has, logan has something similar to that on his stomach. It is kind of "leathery". Vet said it was a yeast infection, gave us the medicated shampoo for it.
But the crust that Logan has is yellow, scabby, and bleeds easily if it is scratched off. I believe that is somewhat similar to the other album you linked. His is very superficial though, nothing deep like I see there.

[GoldenDoodle]

Hi all,

I posted an album with some pictures of Logan's skin

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=1167

[Squirt's Mom]

Welcome to you and Logan! :)

Looking at the pics you posted reminded me of some pics I had seen online a while back. There is a condition called Alopecia X, also called black skin disease. Do some research and see if this fits with what you are seeing in Logan. Toy Poodles are among the breeds this is often seen in but it can be seen in any breed and it is often confused with Cushing's. In fact, Trilostane, or Vetoryl the brand name, is one of the drugs used to treat Alopecia and Cushing's. Here are a couple of links to get you started -

http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Health/Black-Skin-Disease/Symptoms.aspx

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/alopecia-x-dogs-what-black-skin-disease

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too.

Was any regular blood work done to check thryoid and other organs recently?

I think it would be worth it to have an LDDS test done to see if it is in fact cushings and then you could try starting a low dose vetroyl, based on his weight and see how he does. (1mg/1lb)

This could help with the crusty skin if that is in fact calicinosis cutis. A skin scrapping or biopsy would hopefully tell you.

You could also try antibacterial spray for dogs, like trichlor or something to see if that helps at all with the skin.

He's a beautiful guy.

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to you and Logan.

I have an 11 year old Goldendoodle girl, Juju, and am happy to say she does not have cushing's. If Logan likes platinum blondes, he would love Juju. :) I've been part of this wonderful group for the last nine or ten years because I had two Pomeranians with cushing's, both of whom crossed the bridge several years ago. I can't tell you how much I've learned since then nor how grateful I am for the friends I've made here. You have landed in the best place possible to learn and become an even greater advocate for Logan.

In all those years, I can't remember a Goldendoodle ever being diagnosed with cushing's so Logan is an anomaly, for me at least. That plus the fact that you've been seeing symptoms for the last four or five years makes me doubt that cushing's is causing your boy's problems. Cushing's is a very graded disease, progressing at a snail's pace, but I would think that if Logan's long term symptoms are being caused by cushing's, they would have become a lot more problematic for both of you by now; however, not all dogs have read the book so you just never know. I know neither of my cushdogs read the book. :D

In order to start ruling out any number of disorders/diseases that share the symptoms you've mentioned, I would recommend that Logan have a senior screening as soon as possible. I'm not sure if Logan's skin issue is calcinosis cutis but if it is, the sooner you can get him diagnosed and on treatment, the better. A senior screening would include a blood chemistry, complete blood count and a urinalysis. If cushing's is suspected a urine sediment and culture should also be done to rule out a urinary tract infection (UTI). A very large number of dogs will have a UTI at the time of diagnosis. There is a specific pattern of abnormalities on blood and urine labs that are associated with cushing's, so a senior screening is the logical and recommended first steps in cushing's diagnostics. Since Logan's skin issue is quite problematic, you may want to consider getting a referral to a veterinary dermatologist who can actually identify the skin disorder and prescribe an appropriate treatment. Because so many dogs with cushing's have skin and coat problems, derm vets are usually quite experienced with all aspects of cushing's and routinely run cushing's diagnostics. I fostered two little senior shelter rescue dogs with horrific skin problems that were eventually diagnosed by a board certified veterinary dermatologist. My own two cushdogs were diagnosed by Internal Medicine Specialists which is also a good choice for a consult as they've seen it all.

It's rather difficult for any of us to provide you with any meaningful feedback or guidance without the benefit of appropriate testing. No matter what, we are here to help you in any way we can whether it's to extend our hand to hold, provide a shoulder to cry, to pick our brains or avail yourself of the wealth of information available in our Helpful Resources subforum.

We'll all be looking forward to hearing a lot more about Logan. I've attached a picture of Juju, the Goldendoodle bombshell. :p

Glynda

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