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[Shermanmom]

Hello. I came across this forum as I wait for a vet appointment.I am suspecting my dad's dog Sherman (10 year old 180lb lab mix) might have cushing's. My dad came to live with us a few years ago and so did his three labs. They were the mom (cocoa), and kids Barney and Sherman (named after the tank because he has always been so much bigger than his siblings. They joined our fur babies one of which was also his sister Missy. In the years they have been here, we lost my baby due to a vet overdose (so please understand my fear of medications). Sherman's mother passed away last year to lymphoma and we just lost his sister a few months ago also to cancer. Sherman has a condition where he looses pigmentation in hos nose and eyes. When his nose gets bad it cracks and bleeds very badly. The vet also said his condition can be doing this to his insides as well. So we got him started on Prednisone. He's been on it for a year now and is at a low dose to where we keep his symptoms at a minimum while giving as little medication as possible. Sherman has always been a very large boy. He's a lab mix, but not sure who his dad is. Over the past two years he has gained even more weight and now has a large belly and all of his fur is falling out (we live in a cold climate). So I started suspecting cushing's after looking up what prednisone can do. However I am also wondering if he started developing it even before the medication just because that's when he started putting on so much weight. He eats the same as his brother who is actually pretty lean for a lab. I have tons of standard questions as someone new here so I will be looking theough some old threads once I find my way around. I should probably wait for a diagnosis fist but Sherman won't be in to the vet until Jan 10th. In the meantime does anyone have natural vitamin recommendations that would be beneficial for him? He is loosing fur rapidly, bad timing since the snow is here, seems to have sore hind quarters, and occasional diarrhea. He doesn't seem to have excessive thirst since his prednisone intake was decreased. I don't notice a lot of panting as others have described, plus he seem to be an overall happy guy. Thank you.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

My first thought is itrogenic cushings which is cushings caused by long term use of a steroid such as prednisone. The steroid mimics the bodys cortisol which it is producing naturally, so adds to the levels of cortisol within the body itself same as if it was cushings caused by an adrenal or pituitary tumor.

The only way to really address cushings caused by a steroid is to not use the steroid, which you are using for another condition so I'm not sure that it is possible for Sherman. If you do decide to stop the steroid use, then it can't be just stop, it has to be a gradual decline of use under the guidance of a vet. Lowering dosage, and then minimizing the number of days given.

The thing about itrogenic cushings is that tests will show high cortisol due to the steroid so normal cushings tests aren't reliable unless he has been off the steroid use for awhile. Normally once no longer on steroids the cushings symptoms disappear.

The other thing is that with long term use of steroids, you can expect to see an increase in liver enzymes, etc just as you would in regular cushings.

I would want to have a discussion with the vet about trying to wean him off the prednisone and see if there is any alternative to it for the other pigment condition.

It can be very hard to wean off with long term use.

Has he had any regular blood panels to see how he is doing over all?

If so can you post any high or low results that showed up on those tests?

[judymaggie]

Hi and welcome to you and Sherman! I am so sorry of your recent losses of Cocoa and Missy. I am sure your Dad is very concerned about Sherman as well. Sharlene has covered the areas I was going to address. With regard to the symptoms you are seeing, usually these symptoms gradually subside when the dosage can be slowly reduced (tapering or weaning), but it can take a long time. A protocol of slow gentle reduction of medication must be followed to avoid the opposite problem (complication) of Addison’s Disease (hypoadrenocorticism) which is too little corticosteroid being produced by the adrenal glands. The adrenal glands need time to “wake up” & start working properly again.

Your vet may want to do one of the Cushing's tests -- if he does, the only one that would make any sense is the ACTH. If Sherman has iatrogenic Cushing's, both the pre and post numbers would be what is called "blunted", i.e., below 1. Even though Sherman's cortisol level is most likely high due to the prednisone rather than natural production, the high levels would not be seen on the test results.

With regard to supplements, you may want to start Sherman on a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement for his sore legs. Many folks use Cosequin. Adding an omega 3 fatty acid to his food may help with the hair loss and a probiotic might help with the diarrhea (I give my dog Forti-flora).

[Shermanmom]

Thank you both for your information. Sherman is only on one pill every other day. He started at 2 1/2 every day because he is so big. His bet visit isn't until the 10th. I might start to taper to 1/2 pill every other day. I am just trying to avoid having to redo a loading dose if his other condition worsens. I will call the vet to see what they think. I think they will just be taking a basic blood panel to start. I don't think he has any blood work done in years. When I called to set up the appointment they said that even if cushing's is started from medication stopping the medications won't cure him. She said once he has it no matter the cause he will have it for life. This was a very vague conversation though since he hasn't been seen in a while. But I am a little leary about such a pricy diagnosis! Thank you again and I will be back once I have his first blood work. On the brightside he is very perky this morning jumping around in the snow!

[judymaggie]

Hi!

When I called to set up the appointment they said that even if cushing's is started from medication stopping the medications won't cure him. She said once he has it no matter the cause he will have it for life.

It is my understanding that the diagnosis of iatrogenic Cushing's would no longer apply once the prednisone is stopped and the symptoms go away. As we have said, it may take a while for the latter to happen. I am wondering why this person would think otherwise.

So glad Sherman is showing his peppy side!

[Shermanmom]

Thank you that is very comforting. It gives me hope.

[molly muffin]

just checking in to see how you are doing. You have an appointment with vet tomorrow?

[Shermanmom]

Thanks for checking in Molly. Good news! Sherman has been doing a lot better with his fur. I have put a lot more effort into grooming him and the coat underneath looks pretty good. The vet doesn't believe he has Cushing's but does warn he could develop it with long term steroids. The vet believes Sherman has some classic side affects of steriod use that is affecting his hair follicles which probably didn't allow him to shed properly last season. Now it seems like his fur is falling out but it looks like it is just the new winter coat is forcing the old out. He has the clasic stomach too. However after going over pros and cons of stopping the steriods I believe continuing him on the smallest dose we can is the way to go. Overall he seems to be a happy boy and now that he's been getting the daily grooming he needs, he looks much better as well. I don't want to chance taking him off the medication just to have his lupus type symptoms to return, then have to go back to a loading dose of steriods. Thank you again for your support and comfort while I awaited this vet visit.

[Crazy Daisy]

What is the actual condition that Sherman has? You said autoimmune Lupus like. Is it pemphigus?