Questions about Cushings - Charlotte has crossed the Bridge

[LaurieS]

Yes her bowls are raised. But since she hangs her head off of her bed and the couch i dont think thats what it is. She is just so finicky! She ate a few bites of meatloaf and potatoes from her bowl tonight finally.

My big question is...do i raise the steroids or lower them? She is tremoring more the last 2 days and pacing and acting agitated and jumpy. She is still on 12.5mg of pred and was doing well on that until yesterday. Is it not enough or too much? Ugh!

Laurie

[rainiebo]

Hi, I'm so sorry you and your "big boy" are having a hard time. Living with my boy is the same - one day he seems better and acting like his old stubborn self, and then by the afternoon, he has the long skeletal face, is rapid panting and having a hard time moving around. I've found chasing Cushings and that is what it is - a chase - is day by day. Hope you can find a comfort zone for you both.

[LaurieS]

Hi, I'm so sorry you and your "big boy" are having a hard time. Living with my boy is the same - one day he seems better and acting like his old stubborn self, and then by the afternoon, he has the long skeletal face, is rapid panting and having a hard time moving around. I've found chasing Cushings and that is what it is - a chase - is day by day. Hope you can find a comfort zone for you both.

Thank you and yes its so true, this is a day to day chase! This morning all Charlotte wanted was my peanut butter toast. She hasnt wanted to eat peanut butter in a long time. So frustrating and hard to know exactly what to do. Ive said so many times...i wish they could talk!

Laurie

[LaurieS]

Im not sure its fair to keep Charlotte going like this. She seems so tired of fighting. Tremoring was worse yesterday and last night. We could increase the pred but then she just paces and gets so anxious. She has some good moments, we went for a walk yesterday and she seemed to enjoy it, but mostly its not a very good life for her. I can barely see to type right now, the tears are flowing. Im not sure whats the right thing to do...

Laurie

[rainiebo]

Hi Laurie - it is one of the most heart-wrenching decisions you might ever face. I'm not really one to ask about this - I am a try-it-till-it-works, don't-care-how-much-it -costs type doggie parent. This is not a put-down to you or bragging on me. I'm just letting you know what I have done. Bobo had a liver tumor removed in June. Bobo is on Vetoryl (Cushings), amantadine (neuropathic pain.) I give him a liver supplement and a kidney supplement. He is tested regularly to check his cortisol level and liver enzymes. He also gets an allergy shot as well. Needless to say, I'm having to go back to work part-time to afford all this care. Bobo's brother (Sparkey) developed hemangiosarcoma. I went into overdrive with him, tumor on spleen removed, home cooked meals, supplements, pain relievers, and everything I could find on the net to keep him alive. The vet told me he only had 3 months to live, but I was determined to beat that number. Well, Sparkey, lived three months, but they were a good three months until the day he finally collapsed, and I had to call a home vet to take him over the rainbow bridge. He had eaten one of his favorite meals (McDonalds hamburger), gone for a short walk, and rested during the night. The next morning, he collapsed and it was time. Your furbaby sounds really distressed and so do you. It is hard to know what to do - for me - I had to do everything possible. But you know your boy better than anyone - follow your instinct and if it is time - then let him go over the rainbow bridge. A lady at the pet store yesterday told me the deciding factor for her was - she asked herself the question - am I keeping him alive for me or am I keeping him alive for him. She did decide that the rainbow bridge was the way to go. Some of the other doggy parents might have been in your situation and I hope they contact you.

[LaurieS]

Thank you for your quick response Raina. Im so glad you are able to do what you feel is right for Bobo without having to be restricted by finances. I wish i could say the same. However, as much as i wish i could have afforded the CT scan or MRI for Charlotte im not sure it would have been money well spent because i dont think i would have chosen to put her through radiation if a macro tumor was found. Of course thats just my situation, not judging anyone who moves forward with surgeries or treatments to try and save their pups. But i dont think Charlotte would want to go through that.

I've had to make "the decision" a number of times in the past and for the most part ive felt that, if anything, i waited too long. This time i just dont know. I dont want her to suffer or to be miserable. I dont think there is much more we can be doing for her so we take it day to day, and each day i wonder if its right to keep her here with us. And the question of whether its for me or her...well honestly it would be easier for me to let her go. Im an emotional wreck every day, not to mention all the work that goes into caring for her. My life would ultimately be easier if she went over the bridge now. But honestly i dont know if thats what she wants. She has been such a fighter. But is she just hanging on for us? I wish i knew.

Laurie

[DoxieMama]

Hi Laurie,

I'm sure you know that no one else can tell you when it's the right time to let them go. Some people are willing to do that, but it's not their place in my opinion. Charlotte is your dog, you see her every day, know what she's going through and how she's doing... as best as anyone can.

I've made that decision myself a time or two. I was going to share my experiences in detail ... suffice to say I know that letting them go when I did was the best thing FOR THEM at the time. I am pretty sure I waited too long, for some of them, too; neither my husband nor I were ready. With Visuddha, as much work as it was for me to care for him for the last year... and I'd do it all again. We did not want him to suffer. It was a quick decision, really, shocked a lot of people I think. But he was starting to suffer, and I knew if I didn't take him when I did, we'd end up at an ER with people he didn't know. I gave him all the dignity I could muster at the time.

My parents just had to let one of their dogs go on Monday. My dad wasn't ready to let her go until this past weekend; mom knew sooner. When I visited this past weekend, I knew too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is.... You'll know when it's right. You might second guess yourself later, but you'll know.

Hugs.
Shana

[rainiebo]

Hi Laurie, amen to all that Shana posted.

Raina

[LaurieS]

Thanks Shana and Raina, i know that i will know when the time is right. I guess im just frustrated since we dont know for sure what we are dealing with. Although we have been treating it as a macrotumor in my heart i had hoped it wasnt, and have slowly lowered the pred dosage in hopes she could be weaned off of it. But now im seeing so many familiar signs. My dog Tanner who i lost a few years ago did so many of the same things towards the end. We werent sure, but the neurologist suspected a brain tumor with him. We didnt subject him to any dianostics because he was 15 years old and had other problems as well. We just kept him comfortable until his time came. I often think i waited too long with him but i also know the day we helped him cross over the bridge was very peaceful and we were both ready. So im sure it will be the same with Charlotte. Its just been so different dealing with a younger dog. Seems so unfair when they dont get to live out a full life!

Laurie

[DeafSheltieMom]

I'm keeping you and Charlotte in my prayers... it is so hard when you just have doubts. I hope Charlotte will let you know when it is time and give you peace with your decision. We're here for you, regardless of what you decide, and even if you just need to vent. Take care of yourself, too, so you can care for her.
-Dayle

[Joan2517]

I feel the same as Shana...I waited too long with my Lee.

When I had to take Lena to the ER the second night in a row, before we left I told my husband that I thought I would put her down. I didn't do it, I was going to see if we could get her to a cardiologist the next day. If not, I was going to have my vet come to the house and put her to sleep. Those were my thoughts after I got home around 2:30 or 3:00 in the morning.

Instead I got a call at 5am that she was in cardiac arrest and did I want them to keep working on her to give me time to get there to be with her. It would've taken me a half hour to 45 minutes to get back there and I couldn't let my baby suffer. She died without me and I will never get over that...I knew, but I waited too long.

[DoxieMama]

Its just been so different dealing with a younger dog. Seems so unfair when they dont get to live out a full life!

Yep. Our first dog Jupiter was only about 8 years old when diagnosed with lymphoma and passed away at home 6 months later. After, my husband and I both had regrets that we had waited so long. (I actually called the vet the day he died, then had to call and cancel...)

As Dayle said, we're here for you and Charlotte no matter what.

[Joan2517]

We had a Saluki who developed canine lymphoma when she was just six years old. We started her on chemo and she went into remission right away, but was so sick from it. It came back about six months later and the University of Pennsylvania was developing a new chemo regime for her.

We started it a few days after Christmas in 1996. I will never forget the way she looked at us when we started it again. She was standing on the table, and she was a gorgeous girl, and she turned and looked at me and my son, who was 16 at the time. Her eyes were so tired and I knew she didn't want to go through this again. We just stood there and cried.

When I picked her up after, I knew she was giving up. I had a syringe of valium in case we needed it. That night she started going downhill so fast and I gave her the shot to relax her and we rushed off to meet my vet at his office. It was 11:00 and he was waiting for us. I stayed with our beloved Isis to her last breath. She was one week shy of her 7th birthday...and I swore I would never put another one of my babies through that again.

[LaurieS]

Thanks for sharing your stories Shana and Joan. Its easy to second guess yourself and also sometimes its a learning experience. We love them so much and want to do everything we can for them but sometimes we do too much. Im hoping i can find the right balance with Charlotte.

My husband, who is a truck driver, was home for 2 days and i slept on the couch so Charlotte could sleep with him like she used to do when she was his travel companion. He is leaving again this afternoon so he doesnt know if this will be the last time he will see her. And it makes it hard and a bit scary for me to have to think of making the decision alone.

We had lowered the pred to see if we could wean her off but im raising it today. The problem is...she is more relaxed and has less tremors on the lower dose but she wont eat. With a higher dose she will eat a little but tremors and paces more. So i guess thats why i feel its not fair to keep her going much longer if we cant find a dosage where she can be comfortable.

Laurie

[Joan2517]

That's just so sad, Laurie....

[labblab]

Dear Laurie, even though I've not had the chance to write much lately, I've been following your journey every single day. I've rejoiced on Charlotte's better days, and worried during her worse days. My heart absolutely goes out to you and your husband. You are doing such a valiant job of caring for your sweet girl at a time that has to be so demanding for you, both emotionally and physically.

I'm so grateful your husband had those two days with Charlotte. It brings tears to my eyes to think of them sharing that bed together. And I feel as though I can relate to the burden you're carrying now that you're alone again. My husband was out-of-state at a conference when our Cushpup, Barkis, spiraled down. I felt desperate to keep Barkis going until my husband could get home again to say goodbye. It was so hard, because he wasn't eating or drinking at all. I managed to get him in to the vet every couple of days for subcutaneous fluid injections to keep him going. I was a wreck with the worry. But my husband got home, and we three had one last weekend together before we went ahead and released Barkis, before he got even worse.

That's why I'm so glad your husband had this special time with Charlotte. Because now, I think it's OK for you to finally take care of yourself, Laurie, and make the arrangements to release Charlotte at the time that somehow seems right to you, whenever that may be. This illness, no matter what it is, has gone on long enough now that I don't think it will be reversed. Charlotte may continue to have flashes of energy every once in a while, but I don't think it is selfish or wrong for you to make the decision to release her when the time comes that you are ready to let her go. Instead of thinking you need to wait for a specific sign from her (which may not come until or unless she actually collapses :o), I'm thinking a morning may dawn when there simply are no longer enough good minutes or hours in each day to offset her struggles and your worry. And I think that could likely be any morning from here on out, when you yourself are ready to say goodbye. I hope it will be a morning when your husband is home once again, as well. But if not, we will all be here to support you the very best we can.

You and your husband rescued Charlotte the day you brought her home, and you will be releasing her from the confines of her illness on the day you send her spirit onward. That will be such a sad, sad day for you, but what a blessing for her to have spent these years in your devoted care. No matter which day you choose to release her, she will be making her journey cradled in love.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Awww Laurie. There is nothing in the world that makes what you are going through easier to figure out.

I think you just have to figure out what is best for Charlotte and for you and your hubby.

I remember that I'd made the decision to release my molly and I knew absolutely that it was time, but yet that morning, she took a walk and wagged her tail as she smelt and danced around one of her best doggie buddies. I thought, oh no, I should cancel, she is recovering.. but that was my hope, not my reality. She went inside and was back to the same, and having mini seizures, wouldn't eat and drink, could barely stand sometimes. It was time, she has rallied one last time for her best friend, but that was all she had left to give.

It really is so hard to decide this kind of thing, when it is the last thing in the world that we actually want.

HUGS

[Whiskey's Mom]

Dear Laurie,
I think of you and Charlotte every day, knowing we are in a similar situation. Whiskey is my first dog, so I have no advice for you. Everyone keeps telling me "you'll know-Whiskey will tell you" so I hope I don't miss the signs. It's so hard when they're up & down like sweet Charlotte is, you want to give her a chance to have those good days & still enjoy the happy times since she is so young, but yet not having her suffer on the bad days. If only we knew how they really felt, poor babies. I just know that whatever decisions we make, we love our dogs so much and no decision could possibly be the wrong one. And, here is a place you can come with your questions and fears and get the unconditional support, kindness and answers you need. Huge hugs and tummy rubs from us here in PA.
Annie & Whiskey

[LaurieS]

My heart is singing right now! When i got home from work today Charlotte was waiting for me at the door, which is rare these days, and when i let her outside she promtly chased a squirrel. And then she came inside and ate out of her bowl for the first time in about a week! She has only been willing to eat meatloaf from my hand for the past 6 or 7 days but tonight she ate chicken casserole out of her bowl, meatloaf from my hand and then tried to eat food off of my plate while i was eating on the couch! I gave her some of my baked potato and she ate that, and then a couple hours later right before bed she gobbled up more meatloaf. And the funny thing is, we didnt raise her pred today. Not sure whats going on here but im thrilled to see her eat. I really thought we were losing her yesterday and this morning she wouldnt eat at all so i was really worried. She sure has taken us on an emotional roller coaster ride. She is now laying in bed next to me snoring. It turned out to be a pretty good day!

Laurie

[DoxieMama]

Laurie,

What a wonderful day it turned out to be. I'm so glad that Charlotte had those bursts of energy and appetite!

Thinking good thoughts for her today!

Shana

[Joan2517]

Same here! A good day is a great day!

[Harley PoMMom]

YAAA Charlotte!!!!, you go girl!!!!!!!

[LaurieS]

Instead of raising the pred we have actually been lowering it. We have noticed she seems much more agitated and uncomfortable with higher doses. Last night after a good evening I gave her 5mg (she was given 5mg yesterday AM as well) and she was awake most of the night and tremoring a lot. She ate some chicken (out of her bowl), meatloaf and some of my peanut butter toast this morning then settled down and went back to sleep very peacefully. Because I know I cant just stop the pred cold turkey I gave her 2.5mg this morning and will do the same this evening. I don't know if she can sustain on that low amount but the pred seems to be making her crazy and tremor more, as well as not helping much with appetite. And I've stopped the herbs too just in case those are causing her appetite to decrease. She will continue on the Licks and the slippery elm, along with low dose of pred and I will evaluate from there. But my question to those of you who have used the pred and suspected a macro tumor is did you notice less tremoring when on the pred? And how slowly can I wean her off the pred? She is going from about 10mg a day to 5mg a day as of today. Not sure how long I need to keep her on a dosage each time I lower it?

Laurie

[Harley PoMMom]

When my neuro doc puts me on a course of pred (it breaks the cycle of my cluster migraines) the dose is lowered every 3 rd day, so say, I started out at 60 mg, I would take that 60 mg for 2 days and on the 3 rd day it is lowered to 50 mg..etc.

Man, I don't know if you will be able to find a dose that will keep her stabilized, you may find that you'll have to adjust it according to how she is acting/feeling. :(

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

[LaurieS]

When my neuro doc puts me on a course of pred (it breaks the cycle of my cluster migraines) the dose is lowered every 3 rd day, so say, I started out at 60 mg, I would take that 60 mg for 2 days and on the 3 rd day it is lowered to 50 mg..etc.

Man, I don't know if you will be able to find a dose that will keep her stabilized, you may find that you'll have to adjust it according to how she is acting/feeling. :(

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

Thank you Lori, maybe i have lowered her too quickly. But it seems to be making her miserable and whats the point of giving it if its not helping? Ill see how she does tonight and tomorrow. This is really tough and maybe impossible but i cant stand to see her so anxious and jittery. Also the tremoring gets to the point where she cant relax and it lasts for hours. I cant keep putting her through that but i feel i have to at least try and lower it a little or i will always wonder if i tried everything i could.

Laurie

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie, I posted a brief reply on my thread about your comments and will respond further. I truly wish I knew more about pred, macro tumors and even herbal medications. But, I don't know squat! There must be a gazillion holistic vets in CA. Have you dug deeper into the internet? Would you have confidence if you found one? I know your vet uses holistic medicine along with medical treatment but there must be more information from somewhere. But, maybe I am grasping at straws.

I hope Charlotte is eating and you both are resting easy tonight; Skippy is sleeping and I am thinking of you.

[molly muffin]

What a wonderful day. You just never know with these fur babies. When they feel like crud you really know and when they feel excellent you really know that too. It's those in between days that drive you crazy.
We will take every great day we can get!

[Carole Alexander]

Hey Laurie,
I know you have probably read a ton on CC already. But I just read thru Buttercup's thread (macro, radiation and CC) and there is an enormous amount of info on CC treatments that might be helpful.

[LaurieS]

Hey Laurie,
I know you have probably read a ton on CC already. But I just read thru Buttercup's thread (macro, radiation and CC) and there is an enormous amount of info on CC treatments that might be helpful.

Thanks so much Carole! I have read a lot on cc but havent read Buttercups thread so i will do that this weekend. And thanks for your post yesterday too. I read it but didnt have time to reply. Im starting to understand that most macros are not going to respond to treatment that a micro would respond to so im definitely trying to find some alternative treatments as a last resort. I struggle with how much she could be suffering. Is she in pain? Do the tremors cause pain or are they caused by pain? Nobody seems to know. Im playing with the pred dosage right now but have taken her off the herbs completly. I think the herbs were suppressing her appetite, which may have been good for cushings in general but not for a dog with a macro. And yes there should be tons of practitioners here who do alternative medicine but finding one who has something that will help Charlotte, if there is anything, may be hard. I did find a woman here in my town who does Bowen therapy and Accutouch for dogs and i just contacted her to see if she thinks she can help. Even if its to make her more comfortable for the time she has left.

Laurie

[LaurieS]

What a wonderful day. You just never know with these fur babies. When they feel like crud you really know and when they feel excellent you really know that too. It's those in between days that drive you crazy.
We will take every great day we can get!

Yes Sharlene, those in between days are killers! I feel like i dont know what is best on those days. Is she suffering, does she still want to keep fighting? But then she will have a good day and i just know she still wants to be here.

Laurie

[LaurieS]

Its been a very trying day today. Lots of pacing, she hasnt wanted to eat much and i havent seen her drink at all. I gave her a few small syringes of water which she swallowed just fine but she isnt interested in drinking water from her bowl today. This of course worries me to no end!

I was able to get an appt on Wednesday with the Bowen practitioner. She feels she can help Charlotte be more comfortable and said she was reading up on cushings and the macro tumors. She also called a holistic vet she works closely with and said he had some suggestions as well. Today i have had many moments where i wondered if we are even going to make it until Wednesday. Tomorrow is a new day, i hope its a better one.

Laurie

[Carole Alexander]

Good morning Laurie,

I really hope Charlotte is doing better this morning. I know the feeling well of, will he make it until Wednesday? Skippy is eating but he is now sleeping or laying about 23 hours a day. He is on the BP meds as his BP last Friday was well over 200. I saw your question about milk thistle then found this article:
https://www.mpg.de/8951851/silibinin-morbus-cushing

I'm going to email them and ask if they have started their planned clinical trials. Maybe grasping at straws...

BTW, Skippy goes back to the IMS on 4/4 and they have recommended trying Lysodren; I'm not there yet.

[Whiskey's Mom]

Dear Laurie,
I'm so sorry Charlotte is having a bad day. Have you tried giving her water out of a people cup or coffee mug? Whiskey likes that. Hope today is a better day for your sweet girl. I'll be thinking of you,
Annie

[LaurieS]

I posted this on Carole's (Skippy's Mom) thread but wanted to post it here as well.

Thanks for the article on milk thistle Carole, very interesting! I'm so sorry to hear about Skippy. I'm glad he is still eating, and I assume he is drinking. Charlotte won't drink so I have been putting small amounts of water down her via syringe. ***I tried what you suggested Annie but she wouldn't drink from a cup either. Very scary!

Charlotte had a very bad night last night and at 3am I had pretty much decided to call the vet in the morning and arrange to end this for her. However, i got a message this morning from the Bowen therapist and she wanted me to know she had a supplement at the pharmacy waiting for me to pick up. She also moved our Wednesday appointment up to tomorrow morning so I'm going to see what happens over the next few days. The supplement she ordered for me is turmeric which I was well aware of. I had made a golden paste for Charlotte a month or so ago but I couldn't get down her since she wouldn't eat anything added to her food. These are capsules and the vet this therapist works closely with highly recommends them. Here is a link to an article he sent me:

http://www.turmericforhealth.com/turmeric-for-pets/6-ways-turmeric-aids-in-dog-brain-tumor

I would also like to try the milk thistle but I'm only going to add one thing at a time. I'm headed over to pick up the capsules now and I'm hoping I will see some improvement with them and the treatment she gets tomorrow morning. Charlotte is sleeping peacefully right now after having a fairly high dose of pred and tramadol early this morning. I will keep you posted on our progress.

Laurie

[Harley PoMMom]

Hopefully the turmeric will help. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

I hope that she has a better night tonight and that the tumeric helps. Maybe the vet will have some ideas.
Do you think hanging her head maybe gives her a headache? or maybe she has an upset tummy? Have you given her any pepcid to see if that will help?

Let us know how she does overnight and what the vet has to say tomorrow.
We'll be right here with you!

[LaurieS]

Thanks Lori and Sharlene! I can't even express how much the support of everyone here has helped. My husband is on the road and will be gone for awhile so it's hard feeling so alone and not knowing if each day will be her last.

She has had a decent day, still pacing but seems more aware and not so panicked. She even chased a stick a couple of times when I was out playing with our shepherd. She ate some meatloaf but still not drinking on her own. I will let you know how the appointment with the Bowen therapist goes tomorrow. I'm not familiar with this treatment but I'm willing to try anything right now. She had 1 turmeric capsule earlier and will have another before bed. Hoping that will help too!

Laurie

[molly muffin]

I'm crossing fingers for a good night!!!

Oh I don't know how I would have gotten through my journey with Molly without this forum!!! I'd have been lost and more stressed than I was anyway, but they saved my sanity more times than I care to remember. LOL

HUGS

[DeafSheltieMom]

I hope you and Charlotte have a good peaceful night... poor girl. I hope the new treatments help her feel better. We're thinking of both of you...
-dayle and alva

[LaurieS]

Charlotte had her first appointment with the Bowen practitioner this morning. She seems to have responded well and is resting comfortably without much tremoring. Below is a link that explains the Bowen technique better than what I can in case any of you are interested.

http://thebowentechnique.com/what-is-the-bowen-technique/

It's day 2 of the turmeric supplement so we will see how that goes. We are hoping it will reduce the inflammation enough to be able to wean her off of the prednisone. She still isn't drinking on her own but has an appetite for her meatloaf. I was told by a vet in Tennessee, who I contacted via email, that the herbs she was on can cause a reduction in appetite but nobody can really offer a suggestion as to why she won't drink on her own. Its not like she wont use her tongue because she will lick things when im handing then to her and she has licked things in her food bowl. Its very odd.

As I'm typing this she was outside barking at something so that's actually a good sign. She is a fighter and we will continue to do our part to help her with this battle!

Laurie

[molly muffin]

How did Charlotte do overnight? Is she drinking yet on her own?

[LaurieS]

No Sharlene, she isnt drinking on her own yet. I fear the tumor is causing that part of her brain to not function properly and her tongue just doesnt know what to do. She wouldnt eat this morning either but i got some water in her, and her pills. Ill be home at lunch time and if she hasnt improved im calling the vet to see if she can come out to the house today. Im devastated but i have to do whats right for her.

Laurie

[Squirt's Mom]

I hope you find/found her in much better shape at lunch. Please keep us informed and know we are right by your side.

[Harley PoMMom]

((((Hugs))))

[labblab]

Laurie, I'm right here with you, too. If Charlotte does have an expanding tumor, I think you're exactly right. The tumor can be placing pressure on the part of the brain that controls responses to thirst and hunger. That's exactly what happened to my boy. I am surely keeping you both in my heart and my thoughts this afternoon.

Marianne

[Joan2517]

Me too, Laurie...

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry Laurie. I dealt with a probable macro tumor also. It's is definitely a tough position to be in. One of the toughest things to deal with on this forum, in my opinion. :o Many of us have been where you are right now. You are not alone. We stand by you.

Gentle hugs for our sweet Charlotte and many more for you,

Kathy

[molly muffin]

I'm here too Laurie I hope she is improved but whatever happens we stand with you as always.

hugs

[LaurieS]

Thank you everyone. I'm home now and she has not improved. The hardest thing is that she met me at the door and then went out and chased a squirrel. But after that she just went back to pacing and refused her meatloaf so I know its time. I have a call into the vet that has come to our home for our other dogs so I'm hoping she is available. This poor little girl has fought so hard, she's so tough, but it's time to let her go.

Laurie

[labblab]

Laurie, I know that seeing her chase that squirrel was so hard for you. But it means she is making her passage while she is still a proud and brave girl. There is that strong part of her spirit that remains, and this way it will always remain forever.

Sending so many hugs to you across the miles.

[Whiskey's Mom]

Dear Laurie,
Sending you comforting hugs across the miles from all of us here.
Annie

[DoxieMama]

Laurie... I am so sorry. I hope your preferred vet is available, and will be keeping your family in my thoughts.

Shana

[molly muffin]

dang it, I'd really hoped to hear she was better. :( It's good though that she chased a squirrel, she does have a strong spirit. Sometimes the body lets down way before the spirit does. I felt that with molly too. It doesn't make any of this better situation though.

We're right here with you! HUGS

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie,
I am so sorry; you and Charlotte have fought so long, so hard, and so bravely. But ultimately we must all make a decision to set them free. Your decision is a courageous and compassionate one for Charlotte. I'm thinking of you and your family.

[Budsters Mom]

Thinking of you and our sweet Charlotte.

Hugs,
Kathy

[Squirt's Mom]

Just a note to let you know you are on my mind.
Hugs,
Leslie

[molly muffin]

Hi Laurie, just checking in to say thinking of you.

[judymaggie]

Laurie -- Just wanted you to know that my thoughts and prayers are with you.

[LaurieS]

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers! I wanted to check in breifly to let all of you know that Charlotte is still with us for now. The vet we have used for home euthanasia (who is wonderful) has not gotten back with me so i took that as a sign that the timing isnt exactly right. I dont feel Charlotte is in pain or in dire need of being set free from all of this so im going to give her just a little more time. Yesterday she tremored much less than she has for days and slept very well with minimal tremoring. She wanted to be close like she used to, with her head on my shoulder. I going to see the man who works with the Bowen practitioner today. He is a medical research analyst who is in the process of writing a couple of books on holistic treatments for humans and pets. He has some suggestions for Charlottes situation. Im curious to hear what what he has to say, even if its too late for Charlotte. I will share what i learn later today when i get home from work.

Oh and Carole, i added the milk thistle to Charlottes supplements yesterday and after that was when i noticed her doing better. May be just a coincidense but i will be anxious to hear if you feel it helps Skippy.

Laurie

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie,
What a roller coaster you and Charlotte are on; I hope that the emotional uncertainty isn't taking too huge a toll on you and that Charlotte remains stable for as long as possible. I haven't given Skippy the Milk Thistle yet but I will tonight. Please take care.

[Squirt's Mom]

((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

[LaurieS]

Thanks Carole, I won't pretend it isn't hard but I'm glad she is still here with me. She was so sweet last night when she cuddled up with me in bed and put her head on my shoulder and just stared at me with such love. That made it all worth it!

I met with the medical research analyst today and he had some very interesting information. He suggested I look into several supplements for Charlotte: APF for Dogs (utilizing adaptogens which he gave me some info on to read about, it's on my reading list for tonight), Max Immune Forte and Adrenal Harmony Gold. At this point I'm going to order the APF and see how she does with that. I was impressed with the little bit he told me about it and look forward to learning more. I will also continue with the turmeric supplement and I have added milk thistle as well. Although she still isn't drinking on her own she has seemed a little more energetic and responsive the past 24 hours. I'm trying to stay positive but also live in the reality which is Cushings disease. I will keep you all posted.

Oh and a side note... the vet I called yesterday for home euthanasia returned my call today. She knows the man I met with today and the women who gave Charlotte her Bowen Therapy treatment and she encouraged me to give this a try.

Laurie

[Whiskey's Mom]

I've been thinking of you today and wondering how your sweet girl was doing. And you too of course. How sweet that she cuddled with you, she knows you're trying everything to help her and she loves you for it. Hoping and praying for you all.

Annie.

[rainiebo]

Hugs and prayers for you both as you go day by day.

[molly muffin]

Hi. I'm so glad to hear that Charlotte is still with you.
It is a horrible roller coaster ride and not the fun kind.

Big Hugs!

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie, I spent a couple of hours trying to find more on cabergoline.

Here is what I found so far:
http://www.nepvma.org/docs/1CushingsDiagnosisAndRx.pdf

"Cabergoline The presence and inhibitory action of dopaminergic receptors in the anterior pituitary lobe is well known, and dopaminergic drugs such as bromocriptine and cabergoline, have long been used in dogs to inhibit the secretion of prolactin for reproductive problems. Carbergoline is a dopamine D2 agonist with a higher affinity and longer half-life than bromocriptine. Dogs with Cushing's disease can have pituitary tumors that arise from either the pars distalis (anterior lobe) or pars intermedia (intermediate lobe) of the pituitary gland. In both cases, it is known that the secretion of ACTH and alpha-MSH can be inhibited by dopamine. In another recent study by Castillo and colleagues (2007), 40 dogs with PDH that were treated with cabergoline (0.07mg/kg/week, divided into every other day treatments). The only side effect observed was vomiting, which occurred 1 hour after taking the first and/or second dose; no additional vomiting was observed despite continued administration. Out of the 40 dogs treated, 24 (60%) responded after the first month whereas 16 (40%) failed completely. Of the dogs that showed a favorable response, 7 of the 24 later became non-responsive with return of clinical signs of Cushing's disease. Therefore, a full prolonged response was observed in 17 (42.5%) of the 40 dogs, which were followed for up to 4 years. A year after the treatment, there was a significant decrease in ACTH, alpha-MSH, urinary cortisol/creatinine ratio, and of the tumor size evaluated by nuclear magnetic resonance. Dogs responding to cabergoline lived significantly longer than those in the control group. Overall, cabergoline appears to be useful treatment for dogs with Cushing's disease. Additional studies are justified, especially to see if combination treatment with mitotane or trilostane would improve the response." Also:

http://betpharm.com/downloads/cushingscastillo2008.pdf
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11102-009-0209-8

Much of the research seems to be on people Cushing's, that is equally horrible, but may have application to pups. One article I read suggests that combining Cabergoline with the K_______________drug that used to be used to treat Cushing's may be effective. Overall, way too little research. But I agree, our dogs are not experiments but we are too rapidly facing life saving versus life limiting choices with little to lose. Take care.

[LaurieS]

Thanks for sharing all your research Carole. Very interesting and im going to speak to our local vet tomorrow about this. As much as i want the holistic supplements to kick in and work, im worried there may not be time, if they are going to work at all. I feel im getting close to having to make a decision, she is getting harder to pill and isnt liking the water syringe. Its no way to live if she isnt going to get better. But thats the hard part, im just trying to buy time to find something that will shrink the tumor and make her better and give her some quality years. Its that fine line between quality of life and giving up too soon. This is where a crystal ball would come in handy.

Laurie

[Carole Alexander]

Hi Laurie,
Skippy had an MRI today and it confirmed a 11 cm macroturmor. Don't know next steps or if there are any. I will meet with Purdue folks next week at their convenience. Don't know what to do next, if anything.
He is still eating and drinking; fattening frogs....

[LaurieS]

Im so sorry Carole! Please keep me posted on what you learn from Perdue. Charlotte is still hanging in there but so far i havent seen any changes from the new supplements she is taking. Im just hoping she holds on long enough to give them a chance to work. I know holistic treatments take awhile and im not sure how long she has. I havent yet talked to the vet about cabergoline.

Thinking of you and Skippy.

Laurie

[LaurieS]

We said goodbye to our sweet Charlotte today. My heart is broken. She fought so hard but this afternoon, after a fairly normal morning, she started running frantically through the house and I couldn't calm her down. I knew it was time. The tumor had taken over and although today I was there to give her some tramadol, which settled her down quickly, I couldn't let this happen while I was at work and she could hurt herself as well as being alone and scared. My client who is a vet came out to our house and it was very peaceful but it was so hard to say goodbye. In 3 short years she worked her way into our hearts and she will never be forgotten. Fly free baby girl, we love you!

Laurie

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie,
I so feel your pain and I'm so glad that you waited until you knew for sure that sweet Charlotte could go no further. I hope that you know that you did all that you could possibly have done to save and help her.
And, that I and so many others here are here for you. Charlotte was indeed very brave and such a fighter. Charlotte deserved you and you were an extraordinary mama to her. I hope that in time you can recall all of the wonderful memories with Charlotte and that the struggle over the past months will fade. We have both painfully learned so much in this fight and I hope that in time you will be able to share your wisdom and Charlotte's battle with others. My heart goes out to you.
With warm regards,

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry for your loss.:o

Fly Free Charlotte, Fly free!!

Hugs,
Kathy

[Whiskey's Mom]

Dear Laurie,
So broken hearted about the loss of your sweet girl. You were such a great mom to her and gave her the best of care and all your love too. My heart and thoughts will be with you.
Annie

[Joan2517]

Oh, I am so sorry, Laurie...you and Charlotte tried so hard to beat this. The dear girl is at rest now...sending comforting thoughts your way.

[labblab]

Oh Laurie, I can barely see through my own tears to type. I am so, so sorry. Right now, other words escape me. But please know my heart and my thoughts are with you all.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh Laurie, like Marianne, my tears cloud my fingers as I type and I can barely see the words on the screen. Precious Charlotte and her family fought as hard as possible for as long as possible and when no more could be done, you gave her the greatest gift of all. Today her mind is whole and strong once again, her body hers to command as she wishes thanks to you. The love you gave her will be in her heart for all time and when your time here is done, Charlotte will be there to greet you and return that love once again.

Please know we are here for you anytime you need to talk. We do understand, so well.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Trinket, Sophie, Fox, Bud and all our angels



Your Pet In Heaven
by Ken D. Conover

To have loved and then said farewell, is better than to have never loved at all.
For all of the times that you have stooped and touched my head, fed me my favorite treat and returned the love that I so unconditionally gave to you. For the care that you gave to me so unselfishly. For all of these things I am grateful and thankful.

I ask that you not grieve for the loss, but rejoice in the fact that we lived, loved and touched each others lives. My life was fuller because you were there, not as a master/owner, but as my FRIEND.

Today I am as I was in my youth. The grass is always green, butterflies flit among the flowers and the Sun shines gently down upon all of God's creatures. I can run, jump, play and do all of the things that I did in my youth. There is no sickness, no aching joints and no regrets and no aging.

We await the arrival of our lifelong companions and know that togetherness is forever. You live in our hearts as we do in yours. Companions such as you are so rare and unique.

Don't hold the love that you have within yourself. Give it to another like me and then I will live forever. For love never really dies, and you are loved and missed as surely as we are.

Your Pet In Heaven,
{Charlotte}

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Laurie,

I am so sorry too, and my heart goes out to you and your family. We are here for you and understand the pain you are feeling so please do lean on us for support.

With Heartfelt Sympathy, Lori

[DoxieMama]

I am so sorry.

Fly free, sweet girl.

Gentle hugs to you, Laurie, and your family.

[molly muffin]

:( Laurie, I too am so sorry and my heart goes out to you and your husband.
There is just no way for our hearts to be prepared for the pain of the loss, no matter how much our mind says it is time.

Big Hugs and I'll just pass over my kleenex box, sorry I used most of them when I read of Charlottes passing. :(

[judymaggie]

Laurie -- I was so sad to read that Charlotte has passed. You and your husband provided such wonderful care for her -- everything going on was just too much for her to endure. Prayers and gentle hugs sent your way.

[LaurieS]

I'm sorry I haven't replied until now but I needed some time before I could come back here. I want to express a heart felt thank you to all of you for your kind words and warm thoughts about Charlotte's passing. I couldn't have gone through this without all of you and your help/knowledge regarding this horrible disease. I stayed positive until the end and Charlotte fought hard to stay with us as long as she possible could. I hope I will be able to share with others on this forum and help them as you all have helped me.

Charlotte's ashes came home to us this morning so there have been more tears shed today but we are trying to remember all the good times we had with her. I'm so honored to have been able to care for her in the short 3 years she was with us. She worked her way into our hearts like I never knew she could!

The medical researcher who was helping us at the end has made a Cushings file in Charlotte's honor and we hope it will be helpful to others in the future. As I'm sure all of you agree, we don't want our pups' passing to be for nothing, we want to help others through the knowledge we have gained.

Thanks again to everyone who has been there for us through this journey!

Laurie and my dear sweet Charlotte

[molly muffin]

Big Hugs Laurie

This after time is really hard. We sure do know and understand that.

What a good idea for the vet to make a cushings file. Hopefully it will help other dogs going forward.

[Squirt's Mom]

Good to see you again, Laurie. It is so so very hard to come back here after our babies have Crossed over...and even harder to stay. ;) But I am glad you popped in and hope you are healing a teeny bit as each day passes. We will be here for you any time.
Hugs,
Leslie

[Whiskey's Mom]

Aww Laurie, you & sweet Charlotte have been on my mind. I can believe it would be hard to come back here, but I'm so glad you did.
Sending hugs & comfort your way.

[Carole Alexander]

Laurie, I too am so glad you came back and know that it must be very hard after losing Charlotte. I think that you have learned so much through Charlotte's hard fight and hope that you are able to stay with us and share with others your knowledge and experience. Thank you for asking about Skippy; I am going to post a lengthy tome about my consultation with the Purdue people shortly. If easier, just read the last paragraph, but know there are no miracles with Cabergoline yet and maybe never. Thinking of you,

Carole

[Joan2517]

I'm glad to see you too, Laurie...how is your husband doing with Charlotte's passing?

The day the ashes come back is so sad, but also such a relief...to have them home again. That whole week waiting for Lena was torture for me. I just wanted her home with us.

[LaurieS]

Thanks for asking about my husband Joan. It's been hard on him and he hasn't been home since Charlotte passed. He said his goodbyes before he left and I think it was easier for him that he wasn't here. He has had dogs all his life but Charlotte was his special dog. There was just something different about her and their bond was amazing. What surprised me is how attached I got to her. She was gone with him so much I never really had time to bond with her until the end. The last 6-8 months were a special time for the two of us and the last few days were very precious. She will be greatly missed but I'm glad she is back home with us now, sitting next to my special dog, Tanner, the dog that passed 24 hours before Charlotte arrived in our life.

Laurie

[molly muffin]

My hubby was very attached to our molly too. I don't think I expected how hard it would hit him when we lost her. I knew I was going to be devastated, but having him so broken up missing her so just double heart breaking.

They come into our lives and make this huge impact. It leaves a pretty big hole when they are gone.