Sibbie

[Joan2517]

Hi all,

A question: Sibbie, our toy poodle, is 8 months old and up until this past week or so, acted very friendly with anyone who came up to her or tried to pet her. All of a sudden she is barking at some people and backs away from others when they try to pet her. No one has hurt her, so I don't know why this behavior has started.

My husband won't be able to take her to work if she keeps doing it and I can't stay home and take care of her...and she is still too young to spend all day home with the other dogs.

Do puppies go through a shy stage like toddlers do? And how do we stop it?

Thanks!

[Allison]

Joan, hi.

According to this article, yes, puppies do go through a stage where they lose some of their confidence and become more shy.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?articleid=1449

The article suggests spending lots of time with the puppy, play dates, and puppy classes. Maybe someone else will have ideas too?





Do puppies go through a shy stage like toddlers do? And how do we stop it?

[Joan2517]

Thank you, Allison...I will check it out.

A very good article, thank you. She has always been eager to go places and greet people and it just seemed strange that she all of a sudden started acting fearful. We take her everywhere we can with us. I may look into the obedience classes at PetSmart. Our other dogs are not very good at listening, so maybe I can get one of them to behave.

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Joan,

Sibbie is doing it by the books :D Around 8 - 9 months, dogs go through a second fear-stage (and a 3rd around 14 months and a 4th around 18 months)

It's not because she is not well socialized but this stage is caused by hormonal changes, growing up, physical changes :) It often will end spontaneous after a week or three. Also, she is becoming an adult slowly and that might cause some changes too. As a young pup, she was okay with strangers coming up to her and pet her...as an adult she may need more space. That could also be a reason.

Anyway, what you don't want to do, is to "force" her to do things she is no longer fine with (eventhough she used to before) Also, no need to avoid things but make sure she has space. For example, she was never afraid of the garbage can and now she is. Well, you don't have to avoid the garbage can but don't walk closely past it, create space and place yourself between the garbage can and Sibbie. (or any other object or situation she is fearful of at this moment) If there is a situation you cannot avoid, quickly throw some treats on the ground so hopefully she will start sniffing and eating. (Sniffing is a calming gesture so it will help her relax and distract her from the fearful situation) Also, on the greeting people subject, from today on, you no longer let people (known or unknown) walk up to her and let them pet her. Keep a distance between the person and Sibbie, she is comfortable with, meaning, she won't bark or back off. This behaviour may now be because she is in the fearful-stage but it can become a habit when she has the ability of showing this behaviour again and again. So tell people to stop and not pet her, not even look/stare! at her or talk to her, this all may be threathening to her. Just walk past people with a safe distance an be cheerfull, don't pay atention to the people (showing Sibbie they are not important at all, nothing to be worried about) In a few weeks, this stage should pass, and you just don't want her to learn bad habits in those few weeks :)

An obedience or (my personal favorit) a "fun class" is something I recommend to everyone that has a new dog (young or old(er) ) Doesn't matter how many dogs you have already had...how many experience you have with dogs, it's just a very good and fun way to build on your relationship with your dog and a better understanding of each other. ( I used to be a proffesional trainer, had several dogs and even I go to training with my dog, currently our 6th course and I have had her for only 2 years) But you want to take a close look at the different schools and the way they train. It has to be fun, reward based, clicker training for example, etc. No choke (or worse, shock) collars allowed, preferably no collars alowed but only harnesses, etc. Positive, fun and with eye for the dogs welfare, that's important, the most important. (like today, my dog got to play "basketball" during her course...so much fun for her and me :D

Hope this has helped some,

Saskia and Quincy :)

[Joan2517]

Thank you, Saskia! This helps loads...I was so worried that my sweet friendly little girl was going to start not liking being around people. We went to the farm yesterday and she seemed more like herself, standing in the front of the basket, greeting everyone as we walked down the aisles.

It also helps to know when to expect it again!

Thanks!

[Joan2517]

Sibbie is starting to get her confidence back and doesn't seem to be so timid. What I do like is that she is being selective. I was a little worried that she was too friendly, but now she holds back and doesn't just run to anyone anymore. So it looks like we made it through this stage! I do need to set up some obedience training though...she's so darn cute, she gets away with anything!

Thank you Saskia and Allison for your help~

[labblab]

Joan, we need an updated photo of Miss Sibbie! ;) ;) :) :)

Marianne

[Joan2517]

I'll pick one out tonight and put it in...should I just put in in Lena's album? Or start one of her own?

[labblab]

Joan, whichever you prefer will be fine. It's totally up to you! But we'd be very happy to see you start a brand new album for Sibbie if you'd wish. I have a feeling this may just be the start of many sweet pictures to come...;)

[Joan2517]

Not to mention questions...it's been 13 years since we had a puppy in the house!

[labblab]

Boy, I hear that! My hubby is already making puppy hints (:o :o), but I'm just not sure whether on not I have another puppy in me at this stage. Maybe an older rescue a little later on...we'll have to see.

[Joan2517]

After Lena died, the Executive Director of Poodle Rescue of Vermont was planning on giving me one of the rescues because she knew how devastated I was, but my husband beat her to it.

[molly muffin]

I don't know if my husband will ever be ready for another dog, little lone a puppy.

Gosh you are a sweetheart to take on puppyhood. I know others here who have done the same. That take courage!! LOL

I'm glad that Sibbie is getting through these stages like a little trooper.

[mcdavis]

It sounds like you're through that stage, but just in case, the one thing we found helpful was not making a big deal of the fear, because that would just enforce it. We just tried to avoid situations which made him nervous, but if they did occur then we just acted as if everything was fine no matter what his reaction.
Good luck - puppyhood is both way too short and way too long ;)

[Joan2517]

I know, I've already forgotten the first few weeks, but I think I was still in shock over Lee and just couldn't let Sibbie in.

She's in now, though :)

[labblab]

Omigosh, Joan, your new pics of Sibbie are precious -- especially the one of Josh holding her! :o ;) :)

She is a beautiful little girl, I'm sure inside as well as outside. Thanx so much for posting these!

[DoxieMama]

I love all the pictures! She is adorable!! And Josh just looks so proud of himself; what a good job he did keeping the secret all day.

[Joan2517]

He was so proud of himself and so excited, Shana. Imagine a 7 year old not once even hinting about it, but I was still in shock and may not have picked up on any cues...and I was not happy at all. I was furious that my husband would do that while I was still mourning my Lee.

Now of course, it seems he was right. She got me off the couch because someone had to take care of her (not that I will ever admit that to him!). She managed to keep herself busy, while me, Gable, Cooper and Doree just watched from the couch, until the day we came back to life and started to enjoy her...and now I feel bad that I missed those first days of bonding.

She's a darling and a monster all rolled up into one cute little girl...and I think Lena would have liked her. Josh likes to remind me that it was a good idea after all, and she just loves him and his brother, Alex.

She'll never replace Lena, but I have room in my heart for more...and I'm a sucker for any animal who needs a mom. She's my baby and I love her to pieces!

Marianne, thank you for suggesting pictures...I hadn't even thought about it and looking back at them, I see how much she's grown and matured in the last 7 months.

Sharlene, you'll know when the time is right for you. You have a big heart, too, and we animal people just don't feel right without one around and I think Daniel will be able to open his heart for another. A man who could love Molly as much as he did, will need to feel that love again.

[Allison]

Joan, I'm glad to hear that Sibbie is starting to get her confidence back. It's been so long since our family has raised a pup that I didn't really know how to answer other than through research.

I suspect that no matter what we do the awkward stage will spring up on us. Our youngest cat once used to be extremely brave and affectionate. To a certain extent she still is, but she also went through a stage of pulling back from being curious and loving, which honestly took me by surprise. I guess she was growing up on me.

[Joan2517]

Thanks, Allison...She just doesn't just run up to anyone now. She will check them out before letting them touch her, which makes me feel a little better. The fearfulness has turned into caution. She's growing up!

We were at a wedding yesterday, just went to the church to see the bride and groom afterwards, and at first she was afraid of the crowd, the photographer and the noise. But then she started letting people touch her, made friends with the photographer, and she knows the bride from my husband's office. Once she saw the bride, she was very excited and relaxed. She will also be in some of the pictures at the bride's request...how awesome is that?

[Joan2517]

And she's at it again! She'll be two in December. In the past two weeks, she's bitten a couple of my husband's clients, and today lunged at one. She lets people pet her, but when they take their hand away, or turn around to leave, she lunges at them. I told him to keep her on the leash in his lap, and not to let anyone touch her, until I get there to pick her up. I guess she'll have to stay home from now on with the rest of them.

She's not doing so good with other dogs either. She's so bossy at home to the bigger ones...takes Gable on without a second thought. I've been thinking of a training class, but how will that work if she's being nasty with the other dogs?

[Whiskey's Mom]

Can you try a private class? I know they might be expensive. I got a free one at Petsmart because Tex is a rescue & the trainer was really fabulous. They had a holiday special, buy 1 private class, get one half off, and I decided to try it since there's a few things I'd like to work on with Tex. That was last week, maybe the sale is still on.
I also have friends who rescue, and they have had an animal behaviorist come to their house, it's pricey but was worth it.

[Joan2517]

Thanks, Annie...I guess I could try with a private class first. I can't have anyone come here because the three others would be a distraction, and none of them are trained. Today will be her first day at home for more than 5 1/2 hours without either one of us :(. Probably close to 9 hours. I'm dreading it.

[molly muffin]

Shana went through some training with jackson and it really helped him, especially in interaction with the other dogs, but I'm not sure how that will translate to home. The private lesson idea sounds good, especially if they would actually come to your home and see the interaction beetween her and the others for themselves.

[Joan2517]

The person would probably give me my money back, wish me good luck, and run!!

[DoxieMama]

The person would probably give me my money back, wish me good luck, and run!!

LOL! I doubt it. But if they do, that's good. They're not worth giving them your money, IMO.

I did take Jackson through a normal "basic obedience" class, as well as the follow-up "intermediate obedience" class. Both were with other dogs in the room and did help him immensely, as Sharlene said. I also took Kira to the same "basic obedience" class, with a different trainer. The reason I took my dogs to this class was mainly for them to be around other dogs and practice focusing on me - just like I need them to do when we are out and about. Or at home. It built trust between me and each of the dogs (mostly Kira though to be honest) so they don't "act out" (as much ;)).

It also taught me a TON, even though I'd been through the very same basic class many years ago. Oh - and I took a class they offer for people only in understanding dog body language which was awesome! That reminds me, I want to see when they offer it and go again (I can repeat it as many times as I'd like at no additional cost).

Before I went to any of the classes this year though, I emailed a behaviorist associated with the training place and scheduled for her to come over to our house. Remember we had Pepper the beagle at the beginning of the year, and Jackson didn't like him so much? She and I communicated quite a lot over email even before she came over.... and since we decided not to keep Pepper, she never came over. I still learned quite a bit from chatting with her.

Well - that's been my experience anyway. A class might be helpful. Or a behaviorist - not a trainer. A behaviorist.

[Joan2517]

Well, she can't be an emotional support dog anymore if she's traumatizing them, that's for sure! Maybe she's sick of listening to their problems! Get over it!

Anyway, nothing anywhere when I got home yesterday, I did leave a little early...and nothing today after 7 1/2 hours. Even from Cooper. Maybe she just didn't like having people touching her all the time. She seems quite happy at home, is in my lap now, and didn't even make a move to leave with Victor this morning.

I'm still going to look into training though...she's kinda spoiled, can't understand how that happened... :)

Thanks, Shana~

[molly muffin]

Spoiled, Sibbie! shocking hahahaha

Maybe emotional therapy won't be her thing, and it's just the people aggravating her. You could try a bit of a break and see if that makes a difference, reintroduce her gradually and if you notice a point where she starts getting snippy again, then know that is her saturation point for this type of activity.

I'd still try the classes, just to see how she does and what reaction triggers she might have.

[Whiskey's Mom]

I've been brushing up on my training rules these days, and maybe the tension from the people seeing your husband is transferring to Sibbie. Just a thought. I know you'll do this but my friend told me to do your research into behaviorists, get some recommendations from other dog people or your vet, because in her shelter/rescue work there have been some who are less than great, and I don't think they're regulated by law.
Can't imagine how Sibbie could possibly be spoiled! Tex isn't spoiled at all! ;)

[Joan2517]

I'll bet he isn't spoiled!

She came with me today traveling around doing all my errands, the first Saturday since she has "retired" from emotional support therapy, and she was good. But when we got back home, she was exhausted. Slept through all my vacuuming, taking down all the Halloween decorations and moving a half a cord of wood that was delivered.

Maybe she was just tired, or didn't like leaving our home while the rest of them got to stay home...who knows.

She is so different from Lena. Lena would've loved to go to work everyday with Victor, or come with me to just stay in my lap all day. I miss my Lee all the time. I love Sibbles to pieces, I love them all...but it was a different kind of love with Lee. I feel so guilty loving Sibble when I loved Lee so much. Sometimes I call her what I used to call Lee and I stop because it doesn't feel right, and it's not Sibbie's fault. I know she loves me, not the way Lena did, and I know she knows NOW that I love her, too, but she's so different. She is so independent, where Lena wasn't, not that she couldn't be, we were just so attached, so a part of each other. Every single memory has Lena in it. I don't want to forget anything that has to do with her.

I've already taken a million pictures of Sibbie so I'll have them when she's gone. It was only film when we got Lee and i'm not even sure I even developed them...and I regret that. I search all the digital pictures all the time hoping she'll be in there...I miss my baby girl.

[molly muffin]

They are all so different from each other aren't they.
I think the difference can really pop out at you when there was one that you are/were so close to. It just makes differences that much more apparent.

I would likely have the same issues with the differences between any other dog I get and Molly. She was such a diva.

I know you love Sibbie and she knows it too. Jut she is who she is. I think she is probably has the potential to be the boss of the house.