Help with Former Breeder/Shelter Dog

[Amanda's Mom]

I had this all written out but was on too long and lost it so...I will try again. Sharlene suggested I post here and see if anyone has suggestions to help me.

We adopted Remy a 7 yr old bichon five months ago. He is the first dog I have ever met that doesn't seem to take to me. He came from a back yard breeder who had passed away. The dogs were not kenneled but lived on an attached porch. The man was a widower and he and his son cared for the dogs so they were not around women. I don't believe they were socialized much and they rarely were in the house. Remy's teeth were beyond deplorable and he had extensive dental work which left him with only four teeth. We had him neutered after he had fully recovered from the dentistry.

Remy has taken to my husband but not to me. He has decided his territory is under my dining room table and when I pass by he barks at me and runs around growling. He doesn't attempt to bite just tries to chase me away. He will also do this if he's sitting with my husband and I happen to stand up. He was very afraid of me for awhile and would become rigid and tremble. That seems to have stopped for the most part. He will take treats from my hand at times. He is good when I bathe and groom him. And in bed at night he will let me pet him and massage him. Sometimes he comes close in the middle of the night and nuzzles my hand for some petting. But let the light of morning shine through and he's off like a shot to the far corner of our bed.

The barking has gotten ridiculous. If I have to care for him when my husband is gone it means trying to catch him or herd him in a room where I can get a leash on him. It seems like we take one step forward and two steps back. He is cooperative at the vet's office and during my bathing and grooming sessions with him until I go to lift him down off the table and then he panics.

When we first got him he seemed OK with me at first but one day I came in the house wearing sunglasses and he started to bark at me and since then he wants little to do with me unless I am fixing him his favorite goodies. ( He will not take food from either of us unless we are sitting.) I don't know if I remind him of someone who hurt or frightened him or what happened but it's been five months and I feel like we have made so little progress.

I am all ears for any suggestions to stop his barking and to help him relax with me!

[Harley PoMMom]

February of this year I adopted a boy Pomeranian, Marvin, and he was also used for breeding purposes. He was kept outside his whole life (vet thinks he is around 11 years old) :mad::( so he really had no human contact. When I brought him home he was a terrified boy, went stiff when I tried to pick him up, cowered when I would put my hand out to pet him and he would not eat any people food, I made him filet mignon the first night he was here and he wouldn't eat it.

So, he has been home for about 4 months and he is slowly beginning to like me and loves people food now :eek::D He still does not want to sit on my lap and is not affectionate at all, however, whenever I leave the room he does follow me, so I think we are making progress, and I believe in time Remy will warm up to you too.

One of members, Saskia, is a certified dog behavioral trainer, if you would like, I would be happy to PM her and ask if she would have any advice for Remy?

Hugs, Lori

[Amanda's Mom]

February of this year I adopted a boy Pomeranian, Marvin, and he was also used for breeding purposes. He was kept outside his whole life (vet thinks he is around 11 years old) :mad::( so he really had no human contact. When I brought him home he was a terrified boy, went stiff when I tried to pick him up, cowered when I would put my hand out to pet him and he would not eat any people food, I made him filet mignon the first night he was here and he wouldn't eat it.

So, he has been home for about 4 months and he is slowly beginning to like me and loves people food now :eek::D He still does not want to sit on my lap and is not affectionate at all, however, whenever I leave the room he does follow me, so I think we are making progress, and I believe in time Remy will warm up to you too.

One of members, Saskia, is a certified dog behavioral trainer, if you would like, I would be happy to PM her and ask if she would have any advice for Remy?

Hugs, Lori

I would really appreciate any advice I can get. Remy will come sit next to us while we eat waiting for handouts. In fact he won't eat his own meal until he sees what he can get from us. We have probably spoiled him terribly trying to make friends. My husband can pick him up, snuggle him, etc but the only time he will let me cuddle him is in bed in the dark. The barking is so annoying like he's trying to chase me away. I'm glad you are making some progress. It's so hard when all we want is to love them and make them feel safe and happy.

[Joan2517]

I have a Puggle who was a puppy mill dog. His last owners tried to burn their house down with him and some others in it. The shelter that we got him from said that he didn't get on well with men, but was fine with women. My son was the one who got him and he took to him right away. The problems appeared within days...he had severe separation anxiety and panicked whenever left alone. My son tried everything and it just got worse.

He stayed with us during Hurricane Sandy and seemed to do better as we had 3 other dogs, so even though it broke my son's heart, he let him stay. It's been 4 years, but he still goes insane if anyone walks by the house or rings the doorbell. He goes through phases where he marks everything in the house, and is so nervous that any little sound will set him off. He also hates men in hats and sunglasses.

He is on Elavil and Valium which seem to help, but it is still a struggle. He is so exhausted at night from his constant vigil all day, that he sleeps soundly. There are days when I don't think I can take it anymore and then I look into his tortured eyes and I know I'll keep trying. When he's calm for a few minutes several times a day, he just wants to cuddle and be loved and I hold him and kiss him and try to let him know he is safe with us. He has come a long way and when my son visits they are inseparable.

Sometimes it takes years to erase whatever it is that they went through before they come to us. I too have never had a dog that I can't "fix"...my family calls me the dog whisperer or Saint Francis, but Cooper has been my biggest trial.

Remy sounds like he really wants to love you and have you love him, but he's not ready yet. The fact that he looks for comfort from you at night makes me think he will come around eventually. I hope so because it sounds like he needs a mom as caring as you.

[Amanda's Mom]

Oh Joan, I know what a loving momma you are and hopefully someday this little guy will finally release his fear and anxiety competely. It is so frustrating when we want only to love and protect them.

I do feel I am slowly making some progress with Remy. He came close in bed last night and snuggled near me. We were 'cheek to cheek' and I petted him and told him how much I love him. Then my leg which has been giving me fits with sciatica, was so painful I simply had to move it and that was enough to send him f lying to the end of the bed. This morning he did come and snuggle up next to me and I petted him some more. What is frustrating is once we are up and he gets under the dining room table he will bark and charge around at me whenever I walk through that room. Unfortunately it is the most direct route from the kitchen to the living room and master bedroom. So I get barked at a lot. :)

At least he loves my husband. It's unusual to find a dog who loves men and is afraid of women but perhaps a woman did something to frighten him. I don't believe he was abused at all. The breeder's son seems to care about the dogs and keeps in touch. But I don't think they had much socialization particularly outside of the breeder and the son.

Maybe there isn't a magic answer for these guys and all we can do is keep trying. I can live with everything but the barking. My husband works from home and it's bad when he's on the phone with a client and Remy is barking and growling at me. At least for the most part he has stopped marking (neutering made a big difference!) and he will take food from us if we are sitting at the table. I boil him an egg every morning which he loves and he comes happily for that. We did try him on prozac for awhile but it didn't seem to have any effect.

Bless you for taking this little guy in and giving him love and security.

Hugs,
Claire

[Joan2517]

I know, Claire...it's so frustrating when they don't understand. We tried Prozac too, didn't work... at least he doesn't bark at us, but he barks at everything else. My husband also does phone work from home and it is annoying. And he will shoot up like a rocket ship at the first noise he hears and trample anyone or anything in his way. I got a black eye once when he ran across my face while I was lying on the couch! He's trampled the little girls a couple of times trying to get to whatever he heard.

I wonder if you can keep him from being under the table, since that seems to be "his" space now.

How are you doing otherwise?

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Claire :)

I am really sorry that I have not a lot of time right now but will be back later today or tomorrow. Since I am in The Netherlands we have some timedifference :)

But the first thing you have to do is to make sure Rmy can no longer go hide underneath the table. The barking at you is a behaviour you cannot change instantly and untill then, you will have to prevent the behaviour. The longer a behaviour exists, the more the dog is "rewarded" and "confirmed" in this behaviour. So close of the area under the table, turn the table upside down when not used or remove the table all together for now :D Whatever it takes. When Remy moves to a new "barking-spot" then prevent access to that spot as well... Prevention is the name of this game, at this time at least :)

And one last thing, for now, and it's just advice, it's not that I think you are doing this, but just in case, do not try and make Remy come to you actively. Do not try to "win" his love.... What you could do instead is be the most fun person in the world, make him curious after you. But without engaging with him. For example, when you're in the kitchen, with your back towards Remy, start talking in a high pitched voice...to yourself, NOT to Remy. Start clapping your hands or sing a funny song...whistle a tune, or rattle with a can of food, whatever you can think of that would spark some curiosity in Remy. If he appraoches you, continue what you are doing and ignore him, do not look at him, do not talk to him...just continue to whistle or whatever it is you are doing :) But...make sure you have some very yummy treats closeby. If Remy appraoches you, drop it on the floor casually. (don't throw it, the arm movement might scare him) But do not speak or look at him. Let him appraoch you without him feeling insecure, scared or nervous...and that can only be achieved if you do not appraoch him actively, if you do not speak or look at him.

I really do have to run for now, hope this was at least of some help and as I said, I will be back soon :)

Saskia :)

[Joan2517]

Saskia,

Such good advice...do you have any for me and my struggle with my puggle? :)

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Joan :)

To avoid hi-jacking Claire and Remy's thread, could you start your own thread about Cooper and provide me with as much info about him as you can? :) It's after midnight here so it will be tomorrow when I have some more time to respond...

Saskia :)

[Amanda's Mom]

Saskia I am so pleased to meet you. I told my husband I wish the table wasn't there but it is a huge, very heavy table. There is no way we can turn it over or move it anywhere. He will come right up to the door of the kitchen and bark or if he is in the living room with ,y husband and I come in or stand up he will bark at me. Sometimes he will bark if he even hears me in another room. Maybe I could block the table off with cardboard so he can't get under it. I don't want to give the impression he is always under the table when barking. He has taken over the whole dining room. He can watch me in the kitchen or across the hall he can watch my husband in his office. Sometimes he will come to the kitchen if I am preparing food but mostly he stays in the doorway and watches. Lately at night he will creep over to me in bed and seems to want me to pet and cuddle him. But if I move a little he will spring away as though he is afraid.
I spent two hours bathing and brushing him today. He was such a good boy and seems to enjoy it. When we finished I was in the kitchen and he stood in the door and barked at me. I will try to find a way to block the table . He is afraid of many things even shadows outside at night. He is afraid if a strange car parks by our house or when we set out the trash for collection. He never barks at noises outside, the door bell, other animals. He barks only at me or sometimes if we are paying attention to our other dog. He will bark as though he wants us to notice him. I will do as you suggest and try to make myself more interesting to him while not paying attention to him. Thank you for the suggestions!

[Amanda's Mom]

You're right Joan it is frustrating. We just want them to feel safe and secure and happy. I have tried to back off and not try to cuddle or hold him although he seems to enjoy it from my husband. As I explained to Saskia I can't move the table but maybe I can block it off although he mostly hangs out in the dining room, whether under the table or next to it. From there he can watch everything we are doing. Unlike your puggle he almost never barks except at me or if he is excited and wants to be noticed. I thought after five months we would be further along than this but at least he loves my husband. He is not yet 100% secure with him either but close. I cook him an egg every morning and now he comes in the kitchen and waits for it. It's progress of a sort.

[Amanda's Mom]

This past week Remy has started to come over to me in the night for some petting. Last night he spent the entire night next to me. I am a poor sleeper so whenever I am awake I will rub his tummy, scratch his ears or chin, whatever he seems to want. Maybe a little sign of progress?

Of course last night we were in the living room and Remy was sitting with my husband on the sofa. I stood up to go to the kitchen and he growled and barked at me.

I also watched him closely in the dining room. He seems to favor being under a chair at the end of the table. The chair is pushed in under the table and he seems to hang out around or under it. If I remove all the chairs he will be quite exposed as its a very large table. It's all the chairs around it that I think provide him with security.

I'm encouraged he will sleep next to me and isn't showing the signs of fearfulness where he stiffens up nearly as often.

[Joan2517]

Ahhh, progress...Such a good feeling~

[Amanda's Mom]

It is. I'm almost afraid to get my hopes up. It's one step forward and two steps back with him. But he has never spent the whole night next to me. I thought sure he would bolt as soon as I moved but he stayed put. I am going to keep trying to be fun and interesting to him. And I will trim him today so we will spend more time together.

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Claire :)

I have been thinking about you and Remy (and his behaviour) a lot today. And to begin with, the absolute best advice I can give you, is to find a good animal behaviorist near you and have them come to your home. You know, the first lesson behaviorists learn, is to never give advice without having evaluaterd the situation with your own eyes :) It's not that owners lie about what is happening, but their interpretation of the dogs behaviour can be not so accurate :) And, it's never "just" the dog, it's the interaction between dog and human.... And also, I want to share a video that will explain how utterly important socialisation is for young puppies. Not that you don't know, but it opens our eyes, once again to the importance...a good reminder for many :)

https://youtu.be/qPGd7ElMCJ8

Having said all this, from what you have said and told about Remy and what is going on, I suspect that the lack of socialisation plays a huge role in his behaviour. He lived with a man and his son, so he had little to no exposure to females I assume, in those crucially important first weeks. He probably also did not have (enough) exposure to sunglasses (and many other things no doubt). So, here's a female, which to him is quite unsettling and then this female starts to wear unfamiliar, strange looking and very spooky sunglasses as well....and bingo, too much for the little man to handle. What do dogs do when they feal threatened, insecure, anxious, etc...? They try to chase the scary thing away by barking. (That's what some dogs do anyway, other dogs may react differently but since this is about Remy, and Remy is obviously trying to chase you away, that's what I use for now as the example behaviour. But it's Remy's behaviour, by no means is this meant to say that all dogs would behave simular under the circumstance)

So, Remy is not at ease with you, he finds a "safe spot" and starts barking. Then what happens next? You walk passed him and continue to where ever it is you are going. And therefore, in Remy's mind, his behaviour is succesful, he chased you away, right? :D That's why I said yesterday, prevention..is the most important thing at this time. By now he has learned that whenever he barks at you, you disappear. So whenever you do something that makes him uneasy, standing up, moving, etc..he will bark, trying to accomplish what he has learned...that often when he barks, you disappear (not necessarily disappear as in "out of sight" but the distance between him and you increases considerably) :)

That is also why dogs bark at the mailman or passers by the window.... The mailman comes to the door, dog barks, the mailman throws the mail in the mailbox, dog narks and the mailman disappears again...therefore, barking makes the mailman go away (dog logic :D ) Same with people walking by the window, dog hears people walk by, dog barks, footsteps of the people disappear in the distance (therefore, barking at people walking by the window, makes those people go away. Such a good doggy he is, chasing the bad guys away ! :D )

So, if you can't move or remove the table, my sugestion would be to make a place in that room, where you don't have to walk by him or closeby, if that is possible. Give him a basket or bed, something that's kind of safe...with higher edges for example. Not something he can disappear in completely but still makes him feel safe. Or a crate would do as well. Not a travel crate but the wire ones. Anyway, if you can find a spot in that room where he can be without you (or others) having to pass him all the time, that would be great. Next, you have to make sure he will go see that place as his safe place. You can do this by tossing (high valued) treats in his basket/bed/crate...when he is not there. He shouldn't see you tossing the treats. he must accidentally stumble upon them when he explores that place :) Keep throwing treats in it so he will want to go there in the hopes he will find something yummy :D (I would advice you to give him less of his regular meals so all the treats won't get him overweight :) )

Also, any other situation in which he barks at you, you should avoid. Like when he is sitting with your husband, and he will bark at you when you stand up, walk by or what ever it is you are doing, he should not sit with your husband when you are around. He could put Remy in his new bed for example, pet a bit with him and then walk away.

And as an exercise, you could do the following:

Remy is in his new bed and hubby is sitting next to him on the floor (if that is possible) and they could play for example. You enter the room, come in sight....at the biggest possible distance and and disappear again. Hopefully, Remy will not bark since the distance is too big and hubby is distracting him. So when he doesn't bark, hubby should reward him extensively. (If he does bark, pay no attention to it) But your goal is to find a way, a distance, a ditraction, so he won't bark. Do this 3 till 5 times in a row... you come in sight, no bark, immediate reward and you immediately disapear out of sight. (you say or do nothing, other then come in sight, go away. Not even looking at Remy, look up at the ceiling or come in backwards...avoid everthing that could cause stress) You want Remy to succeed...to not bark and therefore you have to set the exercise up so he has the biggest change at succeeding :) If it goed well, you can slowly make the disatnce shorter, hunny can move away a bit further from Remy, etc...you make it more "difficult" in very very little steps. If he does bark, go back a few steps in the exercise because him barking again means you went to fast :) And always remember that everything you do, you do it with the purpose of Remy succeeding :)

So, that's it for now. I you have any questions, feel free to ask...

Saskia :)

[molly muffin]

Saskia is one of the most successfully people I know with training dogs whom others would have completely given up on. Rescues that become certified aide dogs. Quincy is her latest and another wonderful success, such joy you've never seen. So I would give her options a go, even if it means cardboard around the table to block it or a wire crate, whatever works.
This is all temporary remember, but it is Not overnight either. This takes patience and time, much time. I know though that you can do it. You are a wonderful mom to all your furbabies.

Joan, Yes, start a thread for Cooper here under "everything else" what he needs will likely be totally different than what Remy needs and this will keep it all straight as to what is for Cooper and what is for Remy. Not to say you can't cross discuss, of course you can, but Cooper boy needs his thread too. LOL

[Amanda's Mom]

Saskia thank you so much for all the suggestions. We did try a cage at one point. He went in a few times, ate the treats and then lost interest. I think he likes his chosen spot because he can see everything that's going on. It's about five feet from the door to my kitchen where I spend most of my time. He has taken to laying out in the hall more often now too, as the floor is marble and nice and cool.

For awhile I tried ignoring the barking. I felt if I walked away he was getting the response he wanted, chasing me away. I do understand his fear of women and something different like sunglasses or a hat. I have noticed if I have to take him somewhere like the animal hospital and he is nervous or scared he will cling to me. Another thing I forgot to mention, if my husband is gone Remy hardly barks at all. Could he be trying to protect my husband?

I have a board certified behaviorist up in Michigan who is willing to try to work from videos. There is no one here who is a behaviorist. There is a veterinarian behaviorist at Mississippi who will be in Louisiana in September. I have been in touch with her about doing a consult then.

I absolutely agree, it would be most beneficial for someone to come to the house to observe Remy and how we interact. I am encouraged this week since he is seeking me out for petting and sleeping next to me. And he only barked at me a couple of times today. He enjoyed being bathed yesterday and trimmed today. It feels like some progress but with Remy nothing is consistent.

I will try to put into practice your suggestions and keep you posted. Thank you again!

[Allison]

Amanda, hi.

I can't tell you about former breeder/shelter dogs, but can tell you about unsocialized cats. Obviously, there are differences, but enough of what you wrote struck a chord with my situation that I thought I'd post too. Bootsie came to us as a feral about a year ago.

* She now comes to me to snuggle, but still doesn't like to get picked up. My husband tried to do this initially to show her how fun it would be. After a few attempts, he found that she no longer wanted him near her. He had to work again to earn her trust. We do our best to avoid picking her up except when necessary and even then prefer to lure her into a needed location.

* While she does enjoy snuggles, there are still times when she'll suddenly back away from attention. I know cats can be moody that way, but I don't think this is the case here. Her eyes flinch and she hunkers down. So, I think it's one of those situations when time and love are key. She's learning to trust us, but at times her feral instinct kicks in and she wants to be left alone.

* Last, I very much agree that this is a situation where you let Remy come to you. My husband tried to get Bootsie to come to him and it didn't work. From day one, she's dictated her progress. She told us when ready to come out of her crate. She told us when ready to explore more than one room. She told us when ready to sit near us. Now that said, I do sometimes break that rule. I do try to push her to take on small new challenges. But I only do this when she's acting as if ready to push herself to a new height.

All the best! When an unsocialized animal truly learns to trust, it's an amazing and precious gift.

[Amanda's Mom]

Thank you Allison, I do see similarities in Remy. I have pretty much ignored him lately and if he wants food or treats he will come to me. It's so funny that every night this past week he comes and snuggles up in the night. He will put his chin in my hand and then lift his chin so I will scratch under it. Then he rolls on his back and I rub his belly. He is usually still close when I awake in the morning. So at least he likes me some of the time. :) Even with my husband whom Remy adores, he has moments where he will back away or act fearful.
I am trying to implement some of the suggestions Saskia suggested. Had a bit of a setback yesterday when I had to take our other poodle Pork Chop to the vet and today he is deaf as a post. But on a happy note, Remy has not barked or growled at me at all today. Maybe it is progress...slow, but progress never the less. You are absolutely right though, attention can't be forced on these little guys!!

[Joan2517]

Oh, poor Pork Chop...Lena was deaf for a couple of years before she died. It took me a while to figure out that was why she didn't seem to be listening to me anymore!

Sounds like Remy is doing much better~

[Amanda's Mom]

Oh Joan it's so hard when they lose their hearing. Amanda's had declined too and since she was blind she was so dependent upon her hearing. The ear medication they put in Pork Chop's ears is a very thick gel. Hopefully as it is absorbed his hearing will improve. It seemed to me late last night that maybe he was starting to hear again. Poor Lena, like Amanda she had so many challenges to deal with. I miss her so much. And yes, Remy seems to be doing better. He snuggles near me in the night and there I am at 2 AM petting and loving on him until my arm is ready to fall off. :). But that's OK if he stops being afraid of me. And he only barked at me a couple of times yesterday so that was an improvement! He doesn't seem to become tense around me either anymore. Still can't move too fast around him though.

[Joan2517]

I know, Claire...Amanda was such a beauty! Lena never liked to dress up. It's probably a good thing as I would've gone broke buying her things. I'm hoping that Sibbie will like dresses and such...we'll see. I miss my Lee all the time...

[Amanda's Mom]

Joan I can't believe Lena didn't like to wear dresses. She looked so pretty in them I just assumed she loved being dressed. Every time I think about getting another poodle I think "what will I do if she doesn't like dresses?" Half my closet is filled with Amanda's dresses and clothes. You really can spend a bundle, they have such beautiful doggie clothes! I know how much you must miss her. There are days I just don't know how to deal with the loss.

[Amanda's Mom]

Hi Saskia, a bit of an update. We tried to get Remy to stay in a bed in the corner of the dining room out of the usual traffic pattern but he is not interested. I tried baiting it with treats but he will not stay there. He has gotten better with the barking although yesterday he was bad about it again. He comes to me in the night to be loved and petted. I awoke early this morning and discovered it was Remy, not Pork Chop who had slept snuggled against me all night. He has started to take treats from the palm of my hand instead of just from my fingers. In fact, when we are in bed he will come right up to me and beg for treats. In the morning he trots happily into the kitchen and stands beside me while I put his egg on to boil and then I hand feed it to him. All is fine up to this point. And then he goes back into his barking routine
if I come near the dining room. Even in the evenings he will now sit on the sofa between us and we both pet him and he rolls on his back for tummy rubs. So the main problem is the dining room during the day. Sometimes he will bark if he's in my husband's office and I approach. He doesn't seem nearly as afraid of me and he doesn't get rigid or tremble as long as I move slowy and gently. So there is some progress but we still have the issue of him barking in that room which he definitely seems to feel is 'his'. Remy seems to want to be where he can watch us both. This morning in bed he was on his back with his feet practically in my lap and I was rubbing his tummy. He didn't seem to have a care in the world and he was content and snoozing. The behaviorist will be coming to LSU in mid September. I don't understand why he seems to enjoy my petting and loving him and he will come for it in the night but once he has had his egg for breakfast he is back to barking although some days hardly at all and other days he is quite obnoxious.

[Joan2517]

Joan I can't believe Lena didn't like to wear dresses. She looked so pretty in them I just assumed she loved being dressed. Every time I think about getting another poodle I think "what will I do if she doesn't like dresses?" Half my closet is filled with Amanda's dresses and clothes. You really can spend a bundle, they have such beautiful doggie clothes! I know how much you must miss her. There are days I just don't know how to deal with the loss.

I don't know why she didn't like to get dressed up, Claire. She would do it if I insisted, but I know she hated it. My Chihuahua on the other hand, gets all excited if I pull one out and show her! Lena didn't like bows or barrettes in her hair either...she was funny about those kind of things.

I just saw your latest post to Saskia and it sounds like pretty good progress. I think he will come around...maybe not as fast as your sanity needs, but in time.

[Amanda's Mom]

I guess some dogs just don't like clothes. Our bichon hated it if we tried to put a coat on him in cold weather. Amanda tolerated bows if they were small. The larger ones she would try to shake out. But she did love her clothes. Lena was so pretty in her dresses. Pork Chop would just love to wear dresses. He used to look longingly at me when I was dressing Amanda. I had a large sized dress and tried it on him and he was so happy. :). He does wear pjs to bed in the winter.
Remy does seem to be doing better. Taking food from my hand was a big step. I think he will stop barking as he learns to trust me more. It does seem to be slowly improving.

[SasAndYunah]

Well, what I would do , regarding the egg, is feeding it to him in the diningroom :) It really seems like he isn't well socialised and is okay when you are not (or hardly) moving (in bed) or slowly moving but when you move too fast, he becomes insecure :) You often see this same behaviour when dogs aren't well socialised with children. When the child is seated, everything is (more or less) fine, once they start running around (move fast and inpredictable) the dog becomes insecure and will start barking. So, if you have to walk through the diningroom and Remy is there, walk slowly, no suddden movements and drop treats as you move (if he is not barking). Feed him his egg in the diningroom (slowly and calmly), Walk into the diningroom and sit down. If Remy is quiet, feed treats, stand up, slowly and walk along (if he stays quiet, drop treats). Try different places in the diningroom to sit down...so he gets used to you being in that room in different area's. Do not be mad at him for barking, do not verbally try and stop the barking, do not adress the barking (in the diningroom) at all. Barking means...no reaction at all, not barking means egg and treats... He will learn eventually :) Just be aware of how you move, slowly, not sudden and calmly :)

[Amanda's Mom]

Good idea. He usually won't take food from me except when I am seated at my place in the kitchen or in bed. Remy has been doing better though. At night he is quite cuddly. He is sleeping snuggled next to either my husband or me now. He will nuzzle my hand in the night so I will pet him. During the day he is getting closer especially when I pet PorkChop. He wants to come and be petted too but he is afraid. Today he did for the first time come close enough for me to pet him. He still barks some but not nearly as much. I think it will just take time and I must continue to be patient and not rush him. At least at bedtime he enjoys being loved on. progress!!

[Joan2517]

I knew Remy would come around, Claire! It's almost like they have to put you through all kinds of tests first just to see how much you can take~

That's how it was with my other rescue, Gable. My son got him from North Shore and he was just too much to handle so I agreed to take him and try. After a week, I couldn't take it anymore either. He wouldn't calm down and he was already big at about 40lbs; was always going at my 2 year old grandson, so we kept him in the kennel whenever Josh was over. But even at that, if Josh went anywhere near the cage, Gabe would charge at him. Our walks were so exhausting from me trying to keep him in line.

I finally decided we would have to bring him back. My son and I cried the whole way there and by mistake I went in the wrong door and had to walk past all the cages with all the poor dogs waiting to be adopted. I knew I couldn't send him back there, so we got an extension on the "bring back" policy and brought him back home.

It still was a trial, but he started to calm down. One weekend he was still going at Josh, but the next weekend they were best friends. I never could figure out why, but didn't really care. That was 6 years ago and Gabe is so good with both grandsons, and all the dogs. I still can't walk him, he's now about 90lbs and is an escape artist (no matter how many different types of leashes I find, he can get out of them!).

I love him to pieces. He has been my rock since Lena died. I know he still misses her too. He's my guardian and I know they are all safe at home while I'm at work...and he is soooo patient with Sibbie.

Long story just to say that Remy sounds like my Gabe!

[Amanda's Mom]

Well Joan we aren't there yet but making progress. It's always one small step forward and two steps back. At least at night he enjoys being cuddled and will even nuzzle me a bit. I've had no luck feeding him treats in the dining room. He's like a little boy who doesn't want a girl in his club house. I'm about ready to block off the whole room.
It sounds like you and Gable have grown very close. Sometimes the ones that are the most trying are the ones who take over our heart. I'm so glad you stuck it out and gave him a second chance. If only we could know what is in their little minds. It's been almost six months and we still have a long way to go but I'm not giving up. At least I look forward to our night time cuddles. I miss having Amanda with me so much.

[Allison]

Amanda, hi.

I'm catching up on posts after having been on the road to visit family....

Sorry to hear about Pork Chop. A few of my dogs have been at least partially deaf. It's an adjustment on everyone's part.

Wow! Remy has certainly shown improvement since I last checked in. In another year, you might even forget how afraid he started out. A visitor came to see our family in June. I introduced her to our cats. Before I thought to mention, she had reached out to pet our feral. To my surprise, Bootsie didn't budge but instead acted like getting attention was perfectly normal. Not to say, she still doesn't have her scared moments, but that moment amazed and delighted me. It's only taken a year. ;-)

[Amanda's Mom]

Remy is still barking some but much better. It's so crazy because in bed he snuggles and nuzzles and seems to enjoy all the attention. He will get up, wait for me to fix his egg and hand feed him. Then he barks. LOL. All I can do is be patient.

We adopted a toy poodle over the weekend. She's older (prob 8-10 at least) been bounced around to several homes and needs a loving, stable home.

Claire

[Joan2517]

Oh, Claire, a new poodle! Put a picture of her up...the poor little thing. She has found a loving home, that's for sure! There's still hope for Remy, I think he loves you, but just doesn't want to admit it...LOL!

[molly muffin]

Awww Claire you are a real love. What a lucky girl to find a home with you.

You and joan are a wonderful example, as are many here, of what a kind heart can do and what a huge difference make.
It's cool how so many here open their hearts and homes to forgotten pets in need.

[Amanda's Mom]

UGH Remy is back to barking and growing at me. Maybe he's jealous of the new poodle girl. Well, she needed a home and I figured there was no point in waiting. I'm sure Amanda understands. Maybe she sent
"Angel" to me. She is a little 6.5 lb. girl. She is skinny and of indeterminate age. Hopefully my vet can do better estimating how old she might be. We figure somewhere between 8-10 but she could be older. She has the start of a cataract in one eye and lot of little old dog warts and tiny growths. Her teeth aren't that bad for a poodle but quite worn and definitely could use a dental. She is quite a jumper and leaps from chair to chair easily. She also likes to play with toys so she has some spunkiness to her. It's been just over 48 hours since we got her and she fits in like she's been here for ages. I will see if I can put a picture up in Amanda's album.

Pork Chop has cataract surgery tomorrow on both eyes. He is 15 and his quality of life has been so compromised by the loss of his vision. His hearing isn't the greatest and I think getting his sight back will help him a lot. I'm nervous but hoping he will be so much happier!!
I guess I am just a fool for old doggies who need a loving home for whatever time they have.

[Amanda's Mom]

I posted a picture of Angel in Amanda's Album. It will be the first one. She is on a pink and white check blanket. It's the picture I saw from the rescue and fell in love with her.

[Joan2517]

She's beautiful, Claire! Remy probably is a little jealous, but he'll get over it. She looks like she needs you...and a perfect name.

Funny, my rescue boys accepted Sibbles right away...they are such good boys and I love them dearly, especially my big guy Gabe.

My Sibbie turns 7 months old today...and Lena's been gone 5 months today. Bittersweet is what the 19th will always be for me. Yesterday I was holding Sibs at the front door like I used to do with Lee, and I said to her, I love you, Lee...I don't think she noticed!

[Amanda's Mom]

Ah, I know just how you feel. When I lost Rose it was months before I could bring myself to adopt. But I'm not getting any younger and this little girl needed a stable, forever home so......you know how it goes.
I have little websites for my kids that are waiting at the bridge and I write them almost ever night. It helps.

Rem was definitely jealous. By last night he was growling and barking at me like he did weeks ago. I felt like we had taken 50 steps backwards. He wouldn't take treats from me or let me touch him even in bed. So I had my husband keep him there so he couldn't jump away from me and I gave him a pat and told him I loved him. Kept petting and then progressed to some massage. Finally he reached out for my hand. I gave him some treats and eventually he moved over next to me and wound up sleeping next to me again all night where I would rub his tummy whenever I woke up. I do think he had his little nose out of joint over Angel. It's so crazy because he just doesn't have that much to do with me except in bed when I guess I'm good for treats and tummy rubs.

Angel is totally into our routine. She is a crazy little thing. Jumps like a jumping bean! Something I am NOT used to. Our bed is a good 3' high and she can jump up on it. I really don't want her to do that for fear she will injure herself or herniate a disk. She is just fearless!

My Pork Chop is having his cataracts removed today. Big day for him! Since his vision got so bad he just sleeps all the time and I hope he will regain some of his mobility and enjoyment in life.

Tomorrow Angel will go in and have a good checkup. Get on some blood work antibiotics so she can have her dental and see if we can better estimate her age. It is a revolving door here to the animal hospital!! :)

Joan, always remember how much Lena loves you and she is watching over you!!
Hugs!!
Claire

[Joan2517]

I write to Lee, too, every Friday when it's been another week and sometimes in between when I'm especially sad.

Sibbie is a jumper, she's got these long, long legs. Lena was such a tiny thing and I never let her jump when she was little, so she just never did! I remember one time the vet put her on a chair and stood there watching her. I asked him what he was doing and he said he wanted to see if she could jump...I said are you nuts??? and picked her right off that chair.

Good luck with all the vet visits...Angel has that look in her eyes that seems to be asking to be loved...I would've taken her as well. There are so many that need us! I wish I could just quit my job and take them all in...wouldn't be able to pay any vet bills, though~

[Amanda's Mom]

I miss my babies so much. I know how difficult it must be for you without your precious little girl! Amanda of course being blind didn't jump or move fast. Angel can fly through the air. I'd rather she didn't. At her age she could so easily injure herself. She has long legs too.
I will have my hands full tomorrow taking Angel and Pork Chop together. He is still sleeping off the anesthesia. When he rouses he wants to rub his eyes and he absolutely cannot do that. I'm sure it's not comfortable sleeping with a cone or visor around his head but it has to be. Poor old guy he can't understand what's happened to him. I just hope his vision will be back after all this!
I wish I had the money and physical ability to care for all the old ones. It's. So sad to see them displaced or thrown away. Angel has totally bonded. She seems very happy to be here with us. Such a sweet girl she is.

[Allison]

When we introduced a second and then third cat to our house, our first cat was definitely jealous. She did a lot of hissing and growling at everyone. My funny story about her is that one day she asked to go to the basement. This is her favorite place of retreat. She stayed down there for hours, much longer than normal. When she came up, she had turned back into our loving cat. We were so relieved!


Rem was definitely jealous. By last night he was growling and barking at me like he did weeks ago. I felt like we had taken 50 steps backwards.

[Joan2517]

She must've done some meditation! We had a cat who was not jealous, but scared to death of the lab mix when we first got him. He retreated to the basement and would not come up. He would sit by the basement door and run every time the dog would go near him and of course that made him a moving target. We put a gate up so he could at least stay close and still be a part of the family. He was a gorgeous sweet cat. Our old dog who died in 2011, loved him and he loved her, so he just couldn't understand why the new dog would rush at him. I tried everything, but the only time he would come up out of the basement was at night after the dogs went to bed, so I started staying up and reading while I sat petting him or just let him explore safely, and Lena would be with us.

He died of kidney failure two weeks after Lee...I am so glad that I stayed up with him all those nights, sometimes until 1 or 2 in the morning. Everyone in the family thought I was insane, but I loved him and hated that he couldn't feel safe enough to be with us during the day.

The things we do for our furbabies!

[Amanda's Mom]

Joan what a sweetheart to have sat up with your kitty so he wasn't always lonely. It's so sad when we just can't explain things and help them understand.

Our new baby is a sweetie. She seems totally comfortable like she's always been here. And the there's Remy who is back to growling and barking. I am threatening to send him to a boarding kennel for a week LOL! He does better for awhile and then reverts back to the barking. Of course he never barks until after I've made his egg in the morning. And so many nights I wake to find him snuggled against me at night. I sure can't figure him out.

[Joan2517]

He sure is a mystery, Claire! I'm so glad that Angel feels like she's home...that says a lot about you and your family.

As nutty as my puggle, Cooper is, I know he feels he belongs...every time he pees or poops in the house I threaten to send him back, but it's been 4 years so I think he knows I'm bluffing :)

My big guy, Gabe seems so old since Lena left us. I don't know if he's still grieving or if he is just getting old. He's slowed down a lot, sleeps a lot, and can't seem to stay on his feet long. He's only 7, but he's big...my concern is Cushing's, but I'm not ready to ride that roller coaster again.

Sibbie gets spayed on Wednesday...I'm trying not to freak out. I'll take off the rest of that week to stay home with her, then we'll have the weekend, and my husband is home on Mondays, and goes in later on Tuesdays, so she should be ready to go back to work with him by then.

There's always something, isn't there....

[Amanda's Mom]

I know what you mean. Good luck to Sibbie. She will do fine with her mommy and daddy looking after her!

Pork Chop who is a 15 yr old miniature poodle (we adopted him 2-1/2 yrs ago) seems older since Peyton died. They used to play and chase each other. But his hearing has really declined and he was pretty much blind. I'm so glad we had the cataracts removed. He has one more week of wearing his cone. I'm hoping he will be able to enjoy his life again once his recovery is complete.

Sometimes I want to give up on Remy. His behavior is so crazy. I get that since he has never really had people in his life he doesn't need the companionship but the barking and growling is so irritating. The behaviorist will be in Louisiana in early September so maybe she can help. I sure hope so!!

Hugs to you and your babies!!

[Amanda's Mom]

So this morning Remy was especially cuddly. He was on his back next to me and I rubbed his tummy,massaged his paws and he stretched his head way back so I could scratch his throat and rub his neck. He was as exposed as he could possibly be. No sign of fear. He even gave me some kisses. We got up and I fixed his egg and fed it to him. Then he went off to the dining room and started his growling routine. I am SOOO over all this! I simply do not understand him!

BTW he seems to be OK with Angel now. They are all getting along. She is a doll very much like Amanda and my other little poodle mix Rose all rolled into one. One week and she has totally gotten with the routine and seems completely happy with us. Even in one week she looks so much better! I bathed her again and her skin is looking better, fleas are all gone! I will put another picture of her up on Amanda's album.

[Allison]

Joan, hi.

Your stories brought back memories! When we first took Gizmo on as a foster, no one knew how he'd react to cats. Well.... once he became comfortable with us, he made clear that how much he disliked them. Any time our cat Lucy came near him, he'd growl and bark. So we sprayed the air with pheremones, bought baby gates, and created a partition on our bed. When Gizmo started to have bathroom issues, my husband made a sleeping area instead from stacked cubes and pillows that he put near our bed. For a time, Lucy tried to hide out in our bedrooms, and I worked there whenever I could to stay close to her. Eventually, created more climbing areas for her so she could rejoin us in the living room. Yes, the things we did for our pets!

PS Incidentally, we lost her to kidney disease too.


She must've done some meditation! We had a cat who was not jealous, but scared to death of the lab mix when we first got him. He retreated to the basement and would not come up. He would sit by the basement door and run every time the dog would go near him and of course that made him a moving target. We put a gate up....

He died of kidney failure two weeks after Lee...I am so glad that I stayed up with him all those nights, sometimes until 1 or 2 in the morning. Everyone in the family thought I was insane, but I loved him and hated that he couldn't feel safe enough to be with us during the day.

The things we do for our furbabies!

[Joan2517]

Hi Claire,

We had a Siamese cat who we had before my daughter was born...we were worried about how he would react once Jess was born. I tried everything to keep him away after I brought Jessica home from the hospital, but he would have none of that...he loved her from the first moment he saw her and they were inseparable from then on. Temujin loved her and wanted to be with her always...he slept in her crib, laid down with her on the floor, playpen, rocking chair, followed us on our walks. He even ran back and forth at her feet while she was in the Johnny Jump-up, just to hear her laugh, while he spun her around in the doorway where she was hanging.

We went to her kindergarten open house and her story was how her cat, Temujin, licked her hair to clean it while she slept...we pretended we weren't the parents...LOL!!!

When we got our first dog, for my son Jeremy, Temujin was furious and refused to come downstairs. He pooped on Jess' bed just to show how mad he was. We had to put a litterbox in Jess' bedroom for him and that is where he stayed for a few years, I think.

Our poor Tem died of Kidney disease at the age of 19 and a half (Jess was a senior by then) and it was devastating for all of us...especially me because the sicker he got, the more time I spent with him. Jess and my husband would not let me put him to sleep.

I force-fed him, cleaned him up when he couldn't move anymore, comforted him when he cried because he became blind and didn't know where anyone was and wanted his mom, and slept with him every night until the night he died in my arms.

My mother-in-law used to call me Saint Francis...I love animals...I can make anything my baby. I just wish I could do something meaningful or useful with this...but I am afraid that it would break my heart to pieces to see abused and neglected animals. I would have to take them all home.

[Amanda's Mom]

Oh Joan what a sweet story about your kitty. He really loved his family! It take a special person to make the sacrifices necessary to care for the older ones when they are very ill and the hands on care is constant. Their needs take precedence over everything else. You possess that social heart and soul and while it can just about tear your heart out, you have to know there is a special place for those who love and care for these old and infirm furbabies to the end of their days. You are blessed for it dear Joan!!

Hugs,
Claire

[Joan2517]

I think you are as well, Claire~

How are Remy and Angel doing?

[Amanda's Mom]

Angel might be misnomer. LOL! She is quite the little dickens! Runs like the wind and jumps like a kangaroo. Happiest when pulling the ears or legs off a toy. She's a very active old girl and lots of fun.

Remy will snuggle in bed even to the point of laying his head on my leg. But when he's under his table he will still bark at me although not as much. My neighbor just loves him but he will not let her touch him. He seems afraid of all women, noises, birds, garbage cans, a falling leaf. Poor guy is afraid of everything. I think his yard and the porch or room he lived in was his whole world and everything else in this big new world is terrifying. But we do seem to make progress in very very small steps.

Pork Chop's eyes are pretty much healed. He seems so happy to be able to see again! Considering how poor his hearing is I'm so thankful we could restore his eyesight!!

How are your babies?? Hope they are all doing great!!

[Joan2517]

I'm so glad Pork Chop can see again! I think sometimes that it is more important than the hearing. Lena seemed to get over being almost deaf more than I did, but as long as she could still see, she seemed fine.

that's funny about Angel. I've got a kangaroo with Sibbie, too, and I think she's also part monkey. She has realized that she can jump up on the furniture now, but has not gotten the fact that she can jump back down! I've got pillows all over the floors by anything that she can jump on. She looks so proud of herself when she's accomplished a new piece of furniture. We found her on the table one day! We have to clean off anything she can get to and she loves chewing up shoes. Do they go through another teething stage at 8 months?? I am constantly running after her to get my flip flops back and they've all got teeth marks now :).

But she does love her toys. It's like a zoo in my house when her and Cooper start stealing each others toys and chasing each other through all the rooms. Cooper used to be safe on the furniture, but not anymore...there is no safe place now that she can get to him...

It's amazing to see her fly up, though...with those long horsey legs. Lena was so tiny, and had such little legs, she never could jump up on anything higher than a few inches. I miss her so much. We're coming up to 6 months next week and I still cry every day.

I think Remy will turn out to be a great companion, Claire. Sometimes the most troubled ones really surprise us. If anyone had told me in the beginning that my big guy, Gable would be the wonderful dog he is now, I would've said they were nuts.

[Amanda's Mom]

Angel is definitely a kangaroo and monkey combined. She will climb on tables and has no fear! What really scares me is she will leap long distances and I'm so afraid she will hit something and hurt herself. She wants to tear apart and eat her toys. The two boys just ignore her. Neither of them wants anything to do with toys!

Sounds like Sib is a crazy monkey too!! I think they will chew up until a year or so. Better hide those flip flops! :). They are entertaining little creatures aren't they! LOL! Angel has long legs too and she climbs and jumps and dances like a gymnast!

Last night Remy had his head resting on my thigh when we were in bed. He let me love on him and pet him and cuddle him. But in the day time he acts scared to death. I think when he sees me petting Pork Chop and Angel he wants to come over but he is too afraid. Sometimes he barks, other times he sort of swishes back and forth or circles us making funny little " rahr rahr rarh " noises. I don't know what to do to show him I will never hurt him.

Rose never adjusted to being blind. Amanda didn't seem to let it impact her but she was blind when I adopted her. Pork Chop was getting lost and stuck and now that he can see again he's much happier. I was supposed to get his ears flushed out today but had to cancel due to all the rain and flooding down here.

[Amanda's Mom]

It has been three weeks since Remy and I visited a veterinarian/ behaviorist. We spent a couple of hours together during which time she was able to observe my troubled boy. The doctor wound up prescribing trazadone to help with his anxiety and she gave me a couple of exercises to do with him. One is called "Touch" where using a high value treat, I try to get Remy to 'touch' my fingers as I say "Remy Touch".If he does he gets the treat and a "Good Boy!"

Well, all I can say is within a couple of days there was a big improvement and I was shocked to look down and find him standing with the other dogs, tail wagging waiting for me to get some treats out of the cupboard. The exercise (and the medication) has really helped. Remy will now come out in the kitchen when I'm there, he will walk close to me and sometimes even sit near me. He even ran to me as I sat down in my chair, tail wagging and I put out my hand and said "Touch" which he did. All this while small steps is fabulous progress in a very short time. The doctor did say it would be painfully slow but so far there have been more ups than downs. AND best of all, he hardly barks at me anymore. Once in a while but nothing like before!

Of course when I took him to LSU he sat on my lap and stayed close to me. Apparently being there was more traumatic than being near me so I was the 'lesser of the evils'. I am hopeful that perhaps by Christmas he will be much more trusting and comfortable. The plan is to wean him off the mediation eventually.

Oh and one more thing, the other night I heard barking and knew it wasn't Angel or Pork Chop. Remy was in the living room trying to play with a toy and barking at it. He didn't know quite what to do with it but he was trying. He has been watching Angel who is the 'toymeister' and we hope he will learn to enjoy play and having fun. The behaviorist had suggested puzzle toys for Remy and we have some of those as well. Of course once he has the treats out he loses all interest and he is very adept at getting them out. It is so wonderful to see our boy coming out of his shell. His tail wags furiously much of the time, he is exploring the yard (still scared of cats, falling leaves and garbage cans) but he is becoming more comfortable in the back yard and enjoys sniffing and skulking around the bushes.

Remy may never be as comfortable as a dog who was socialized as a puppy but hopefully he will be able to enjoy his life and not live in fear. We can see the dog he can be. And he has all the potential to be a happy, fun, inquisitive little guy if he can move beyond the fear he carries. :) !!! This is just 'phase one' but we are so happy for him!

[Joan2517]

Claire~ I am so happy to read this...what a relief it must be to you, I knew you could do it though :)

And how nice for him to be able to calm down and enjoy some of the little things in life!

I may ask my vet for the trazadone for Cooper, since the Elavil isn't doing much. I just received a belly band from my poodle rescue group and am getting him used to wearing it while I am home before I try it with us gone all day.

Good news!

Love,
Joan

[molly muffin]

This is great news. I'm sure his life is so much better and happier with less anxiety in it. Your little buddy now :)

[Amanda's Mom]

Well Joan we aren't there yet but tremendous improvement. I am hoping by Christmas maybe he will be close to truly trusting me. At least now I feel we will "get there" with patience.
Is Cooper marking? In the past I had good luck with Prozac for marking. Sounds like you have tried some meds already. Trazadone has worked well for
Remy. We just want him to be a happy boy and feel safe and secure. Good luck with the belly band. It's a pain taking it on and off but definitely saves on clean up!