Buffy (Sweet Buffy has passed)

[buffysmom]

Hi everyone. Like most of you, we have gone back and forth trying to decide whether or not to begin treating our precious little girl. Buffy is a 16 years old cockapoo. We are trying to decide whether to let her live out what is left of her life without putting her through treatment. She was drinking a lot of water and urinating a lot. She is now drinking normal amounts but still leaking.

We originally thought she had bladder issues because she seemed to urinate in her sleep. I now set the alarm to wake up every 2 to 3 hours to take her out. She has a dog door but doesn't seem to know she us doing it. She has slight trembling but only for about 10 minutes and usually in the morning. She is on 50 MG of Proin given twice a day. She has had the leaking episodes for a long time but after 1 or 2 accidents they would disappear for about a year or so...always in her sleep.

She has always had ear infections and recently yeast infections. The vet had her on antibiotics for 3 weeks. The yeast and ear infections cleared up and are still clear but he kept telling me that her issues were old age. She has tumors that are filled with fluid on her stomach and her chest. It just didn't feel right so I took her to a new vet and said I wanted her tested for Cushings. I almost wish I hadn't. She called to tell us the results are positive. That was on May 18. I went and picked up her Vetoryl. The vet wants to start her on 15 MG a day. She weighs 22 lbs. I was fine until I started researching it. We called and told the vet we weren't going to treat her. I've been borderline hysterical ever since. I mean do we treat her when she doesn't seem to be suffering, chance having her react to the meds? Or do we treat her. I called her breeder and she said cockapoo generally live 14 or 15 years and she agrees with our decision.

That's fine...but then I found you guys...and now I'm second guessing again. We took her back today for a blood test for CBC/Chem/Electrolytes...we should have results tomorrow but I am thinking I will start her on the Vetoryl in the morning.

Sorry for the super long post...I will post the results of her low dose dexamethasone test. Will try just to post what you need. HELP PLEASE 😕
Time 1 Pre
Time 2 4 hour
Time 3 8 hour
Cortisol Sample 1 6.1
Cortisol Sample 2 Dex 6.3
Cortisol Sample 3 Dex 7.8

[DoxieMama]

Hello and welcome to you and Buffy! I'm so sorry for what brought you here, but you couldn't have found a better place on the web for information and support!!

I'm up way past my bedtime tonight, so I need to keep this short. But I wanted to respond and let you know someone has seen your post and is here with you.

What symptoms did you or the vet bring you to test for Cushing's? Please do post the results of the additional tests when you get those, as I'm sure they will be helpful. Are the symptoms affecting Buffy (or you) now? It seems even more difficult to determine whether to treat a senior dog, or if Cushing's will not affect their life so much in the remaining years as to make treatment necessary. It is a fine balancing act, for sure.

I would also like to share a response from one of our Admins to another member with an elderly pup who had been recently diagnosed:


Cushing's is typically a slowly progressive disease but it does have the potential to cause systemic damage over time (from high blood pressure, vulnerability to pancreatitis and infections, high cholesterol, kidney damage, liver inflammation, etc.). So for a younger dog, I'd certainly recommend effective treatment so as to eliminate some of these risks, improve longterm quality of life, and allow the dog to live out his/her normal lifespan. However, for a dog of Pepper's age, immediate quality of life issues seem of paramount importance to me. And there are some trade-offs to treatment, especially for an arthritic dog since the arthritis may actually worsen as the cortisol level drops, necessitating the introduction of additional drugs to better manage the discomfort. Also, especially at the beginning, there can be numerous vet visits and blood draws which can be less than pleasant for a dog who's nervous at the vet (and also hard on the owner's pocketbook :o).

I don't tell you any of this to dissuade you from treating if you and your vet agree this is the best path forward for Pepper. But I do think you are the best judge as to how uncomfortable her current symptoms are to you both, and if they are not bothering Pepper all that much -- as I say, you may want to hold off on treating for the time being.

With the information you've provided, at this point I agree with your decision to hold off on treatment as well. But we will be here and will support whatever decision you make.

Many hugs....
Shana

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and your sweet girl from me as well. WOW you've done a great job of keeping your girl healthy and happy up to age 16! The goal of therapy is to control those bothersome symptoms from Cushing's, if Buffy is outwardly doing well, I surely understand your conflict about treating. I do believe that daily quality of life is a more important treatment determinant than is halting the slow long-term damage associated with uncontrolled Cushing's. Those LDDS test results do point to Cushing's, however they do not differentiate between the pituitary or adrenal form.

The decision to treat is a personal one and only you know your girl best. Please know we are here to help in any way we can and if you have any questions do not hesitate to ask them.

Hugs, Lori

[lily]

Hi
buffy's mom. I recently joined bc we have a 6 yr old chihuahua with cushings. but our prior pet, a daschaund named Brandi was diagnosed with cushings at the age of 12. She wasnt sick, and we decided to not treat the cushings. She passed away at the age of 15. We are not sorry we did what we did. Our mindset was why put her through the treat and possibly make her sick. She did have urinary issues, but we went out ALOT...

[buffysmom]

Thank all of you for your posts :) I agonized all nite thinking I would be waking up to start Buffy's treatment this morning. I've decided, at least for one more day, to hold off. I hate being indecisive but I know once I start treatment it will be worse to stop.

I started taking Buffy to the vet for her ears and a cough. The first vet after moving to Mississippi treated them and removed a cyst on her hindquarters. She had a growth on her chest that I had him look at. He said it could be cancer but asked if I would treat and I said no so he didn't pursue it. I changed vets and all was good until recently. He ran a series of tests and said everything turned out normal, but again we had to treat for ears and a yeast infection. He treated her for 3 weeks with antibiotics and prednisone shots. We live in the country and the vets here pretty much believed all her symptoms were old age. After trying to have her tested for Cushings and getting a less than enthusiastic response I again changed vets who didn't believe it was Cushings but at least listened to me and tested. The results I listed in my first post and I will list the results from the blood work below.

I want to thank you so much for posting pros and cons at Ms. Buffs age. The only signs we are seeing is the water and urine, limited weakness in hindquarters that causes her to trip trying to get up her steps to our bed and she licks her left leg making me think it could be arthritis. Her walk is fine...no limping. She does love to eat and appears to be more excited than normal but isn't anymore demanding than usual...lol.

Cost isn't an issue luckily for us. We are lucky to live here I guess...vet bills are reasonable. Her med was 60.00 and her Cushings test was 155.00. I just hated putting her through it :(

Here are more results...hope they help. I'll only list the high or lows

Cholestrol...298. Normal range...0 to 199
amylase...1047 U/L. Normal...10 to 110
phosphorus...5.0. Normal...2.5 to 4.5
creatinine...0.5. Normal...0.7 to 1.5
urea nitrogen...27. Normal...6 to 20
calcium...11.4. Normal...8.7 to 10.4
alkaline phosphatase...231. Normal 38 to 126
ALT...77. Normal 3 to 73

There are other counts but the only one that is marked is PLT shows 1068

The above is from the blood work on June 25, 2015. I have updated for March 2016 I will post in a bit. We are having our Internet worked on and it's getting cutoff ��

[DoxieMama]

Hi again,

I'll watch for those updated test results from March, but one thing you mentioned in this latest post is that Buffy was on prednisone for 3 weeks. Was this recently? When was the last dose of prednisone, compared to when the LDDS test was done?

Shana

[judymaggie]

Hi! Welcome to you and Bufffy! The effects of Cushing's when untreated progress very, very slowly. Putting off treatment until you are absolutely certain that that is the direction you want to take will not harm Buffy. Also, you can always stop treatment.

Here is a link to Dechra's (manufacturer of Vetoryl) client brochure:

http://www.dechrace.com/pdfs/vetoryl/VetorylClientBrochure5mg.pdf

I would recommend reading the whole brochure but the "Quick Reference Guide" on page 6 has very useful information for someone just starting out with treatment.

[buffysmom]

Sorry it has taken all day to post the rest of the results but the vet just called and I wanted to add yesterday's results to the test from March 12, 2016. I'm not sure which are important so I'll just type whatever has a H or L next to it.

AMYL 723
Na+ 149
PHOS 5.0
CREAT 0.5
Ca 10.6
ALKP 463
ALT 210

WBC 16.90
PLT 1098

Results from yesterday
WBC 16.76
PLT 1585

ENZYMATIC CO2 21

CHOLESTEROL >325 ref range 0 to 199
handwritten in > 650
Amylase 979 ref range 30 to 110
phosphorus 6.4 ref range 2.5 to 4.5
urea nitrogen 26 ref range 6 to 20
calcium 11.4 ref range 8.7 to 10.4
AST 53 ref range 15 to 46
alkaline phosphatase 1251 ref range 38 to 126
ALT 351 ref range 9 to 72

I hope this helps. The test from yesterday has me very nervous. I told her I didn't give the meds today...she didn't sound happy but I told her Buffy appears happy and not really effected other than her water and urine and do I upset the cart now by treating or let her be. I know no one can answer but me...but I need as much info as I can get at her age.

[buffysmom]

Oh Doxie Mama...she received 3 shots of prednisone for her yeast and ear infections back in March of this year.

[buffysmom]

Ok...a new day and trying to calm down. I had already read Dechra's brochure but read it again. I was a mess last night after talking to the vet. She feels so strongly Buffy should be treated. I wish I was as sure. My husband and I both believe Buffy has had Cushings for quite a while. Each time we take her to a new vet we are told it's something different. We didn't test in the beginning because we were told there was no reason to if we weren't going to treat with chemo or surgery and we should just enjoy her. Anyway...other than the growths, coughing and uti's she did fine. The coughing has almost entirely stopped.

Other than her urination problem...she is fine now. She does sleep a lot but is happy to wake up and come with us for an outing. She has never tolerated antibiotics well...they cause vomiting. That is why I'm so worried about starting treatment at 15. Do we treat with possible side effects that could weaken her or do we cherish what time is left?

A couple of questions. Her Cushings test was done on a full stomach. The vet said it doesn't effect the outcome. I've read others say they withheld food the morning of the test. Also, if we decide to treat the vet has provided 30 MG vetoryl but said to only give half a capsule. I read the brochure says NOT to open the capsule. My plan is to wear gloves. But does opening it lessen the strength?

Thanks all of you for being here. She's my baby and like all of us...I'm trying to do the best by her.

[dsbailey]

Hi BuffysMom,

I only have a minute to answer your questions, others will come later with the reasoning.

I believe your vet was right about the LDDS test and a full stomach. If you start to treat the ACTH Stim test needs to be done 4-6 hours after the morning dosage given with a full meal maybe with a little cheese to bring up the fat content.

Do not break open the capsules.

Start closer to the recommended starting dosage of 20 mg (22lb dog). You can use a combination of two 10 mg caps. Test after 14 days to see how the medication is working, re-test at 30 days and make any dosage adjustments then, not before. To figure out the proper dosage you can use a combination of pills (this can be cost prohibitive in the long run) they come in 5, 10, 30, 60, 120 mg. Once you have that figured out through adjustments and testing (this may take a few months) then you can have the proper dosage compounded into one pill and this should save you some money.

Have you discussed with your vet "spay incontinence"? The cushings symptoms make spay incontinence worse. I have to treat my dog with DES (Diethylstilbestrol) every three days, it's a synthetic estrogen. This may help with the leaking / accidents which in turn can help constant UTI's. My girl gets eColi UTI's from leaking and licking.

Hope this helps - Darrell and Lolita

[buffysmom]

Thanks Darrell and Lolita. None of the vets have ever mentioned DES which is odd since Buff has had such problems with UTI'S and infections. Never mentioned eColi infections either. I will ask our new vet about the DES.

If I decide to ho ahead with her treatment I'll tell the vet I'd rather not open the caosukes. She believes Buffy's correct dosage will be 30 but because of my concern she wants to start ger off at 15 mg

[dsbailey]

I'd feel safer starting at or under the recommended dosage so 15 mg is better than 30 and certainly better than the roller coaster ride you might find opening the capsules. There are multiple reasons for not opening the capsules, the mixture of filler and medicine aren't blended perfectly, and getting a perfect daily dosage would be near impossible without being a pharmacist or drug dealer ;).

I've had Lolita's urine cultured and eColi is the bacteria they always find. My theory is that she's getting eColi bacteria from spending too much time in her business area which must get itchy from the UTI, urine leaking on her skin, etc. When it itches everything (front and back) must be cleaned up. I guess she doesn't know the wipe only backwards female rule. She's also a toilet slurper from way back, my bad I'm a male and to stupid to put the seat down :rolleyes:. Regardless, spay incontinence can happen to middle aged to older females that were spayed at a young age, they lose some urethral sphincter control. DES is something to look into but carries it's own risks but to both of us it increases quality of life which most people here will say is the point of the whole exercise.

Darrell and Lo

[buffysmom]

Thank you again Darrell. That makes sense about not being able to get a true dose if I open the capsule. As for the DES...Buffy was nonstop licking back there. I was here to make her stop...but she sure wasnt happy and neither was I? The vet we were seeing at the time gave her antibiotics and said to buy over the counter cream for vaginal itch. We moved to a different vet and have since moved again.

[buffysmom]

Hi everyone...I'm really hoping someone is able to get back to me. I've posted Buffy's test results a couple of days ago. Maybe I'm reading more into them? But would love it if someone is able to ease my fears a little?? I've talked to my vet who says they are quite high but what does that mean? Basically she thinks we should treat Buffy. I know it's our choice...but we are going through into this pretty much blind. With results like these but few symptoms...are the results somewhat high, moderate or ?

I know it's the weekend and you all probably work, have a life and may have your own babies you are worried about...but if someone could give me some insight on the tests it would help. My vet is wonderful but feels strongly we should treat her. She asks if we have any questions...but without knowing what all thus means...I don't even know what to ask 😕

[molly muffin]

The ldds is certainly indicative of Cushing's.

A low dose like 15 mg might be all she needs with little symptoms. So you could give it a try and see if it makes any difference at all in the other blood work values.

We.know that high cortisol over a long period of time can have an affect on the other organs so that is where your vets concerns lays.

I would probably try the 15 and see how things go knowing that it can be stopped at any time if needed

[buffysmom]

Thanks Sharlene...appreciate your reply. I went ahead and called my vet to ask her to order pills in 15 mg. It'll take a little while but that will give us time to be sure.

Buffy seemed to wake up this morning really well and continued thru the day well. She did just have a little accident, but was able to be more active and went for a short trip in the car a little over an invoice hour without it totally wearing her out. Does Cushings symptoms come and go? Even her tummy was not so big this morning.

If possible I'd still like for someone to let me know what they think about her lab work. We know it shows she has Cushings...we've accepted that. But I remember we were asked to post as much lab work as possible. Was her last lab work as bad as it seems?

[buffysmom]

Am I possibly asking the wrong question? I need help...and appreciate some of the advice I've gotten...but I keep asking about Buffy's bloodwork. I totally understand no one here is a vet...but please...can someone fill me in on her liver levels. Are they horrible like I need to do something immediately? Or do we have time to see how she does? I'm goin to have to let her vet know tomorrow whether or not we are treating. Scared to death to make the wrong decision.

[molly muffin]

Oh gosh. No her liver levels are not bad at all. We are use to seeing alkp way higher over 1000 even in Cush dogs and most will also have an elevated alt.

You do want to make sure you aren't giving too much fat in her diet as that isn't good with Cushing's. Cholesterol I am looking at and Cushing dogs being prone to pancreatis. Looking at the amalyse which can have other causes for being elevated but I'd do a good protein. Not too high in fats.

Hope that helps you feel a bit better. And I would retest these after treatment to see changes. Might get better

[buffysmom]

Oh thank you so much! Guess I can stop holding my breath now. We are leaning towards treating her with 15 mg which I need to tell the vet to order tomorrow morning. Nothing was said to me about the fat but it makes perfect sense. Thank you so much again :)

[Harley PoMMom]

I do apologize that we didn't respond to you sooner and I'm glad that Sharlene has eased your fears. I think that Buffy's liver levels are pretty darn good especially for an elder girl.

Cushing's symptoms do not wax and wane, most of the time some of those symptoms; the peeing, drinking, and appetite, increase. Is Buffy still drinking/urinating normally?

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

No problem Lori...you know how us mom's freak out 😊. I spoke with the vet today and ordered the 15 mg. Buffy is a star at spitting her meds out so she is going to order it in a liquid form. It also apparently comes in a lot of favors...we chose beef. I'm still nervous as all get out but at least I'll know we tried.

Buffy has been doing really well the last 3 days. She does at times drink a lot of water and I'm still waking her up every 2 hours at nite to go outside. That usually stops accidents but not always. Days are better but I still make sure she goes out every few hours. She has a doggie door so goes out on her own a lot. She is currently on 50 MG Proin and the vet said hopefully after a couple of weeks we can discontinue that.

I haven't noticed her trembling for a few days...but she no longer gets up on furniture or goes up the steps to the bed without having a hand on her back. She does seem hungrier than normal but not too bad.

Thank you all so much for calming me down.

[dsbailey]

You're welcome,

Hey, Dad's freak out too. :D

[buffysmom]

You're welcome,

Hey, Dad's freak out too. :D

Awwwwww...sorry...I know you are right! Male or female, young or old...our babies mean so much to all of us 😊

[buffysmom]

Hi everyone...we are starting meds in the morning but I have a couple questions hopefully someone can answer. The dose is 1 ml once a day. Does this sound right? It's compounded at 15mg/mL and is a liquid. Buffy weighs 22 lbs.

Also, the vet said they don't need to test for a month as long as there is no adverse reaction?

I'm really nervous and the vet has given me prednisone to give her if she starts getting sick. Assuming I give this at the first sign?

I asked whether it mattered when I give her the dose, they said no, but I believe it was recommended here its best to give it to her in the morning or was that only on the day they are to be tested?

Thanks for any help...she has been doing pretty well except her bladder and that seems to be getting worse. Wish us luck

[judymaggie]

Hi! It can be nerve wracking to start treatment but you will do great. With regard to your questions ...

I am not that familiar with liquid dosing but, with the info you provided, it sounds like you are starting Buffy on a conservative dose which I, and many others here, believe is the best way to go.

The negative signs you would be looking for are lethargy, vomiting, diarrhea or lack of appetite. If any of these symptoms occur, you should stop giving Buffy the trilostane. If your vet's office is open, call them and let them know what is happening. You would want to take Buffy in for the vet to check her electrolytes and do an ACTH to check cortisol levels. If the vet is closed, you can give a dose of prednisone. If the symptoms are from too much trilostane, Buffy should perk up in a short while. Then follow up with the vet.

You should definitely give Buffy the trilostane after a full morning meal. The ACTH tests are done 4-6 hours after a full meal followed by trilostane. The timing of each test should be consistent so accurate comparisons can be made between test results.

Dechra, the manufacturer of Vetoryl (brand name of trilostane), recommends that the first ACTH after the start of treatment be done between 10-14 days with the second done at 30 days. Some vets do skip the first test if all is going well and I believe in an effort to help their clients' cut costs down. I tested at day 14--I was way too nervous to wait until day 30. No dosage changes should be made at that time so really your call.

Hang in there and we are all here for any concerns or questions!

[DoxieMama]

Liquid Trilostane compounded at 15 mg/mL means 1mL is 15 mg... which is exactly the level you were planning to start. So yep, sounds right to me!

However, you should plan on having an ACTH test done within 10-14 days. If you need to reduce the meds, you could do so then but do not increase. Then again in another couple weeks (so 30 days after you start the meds) you would have another ACTH test done. At that point, you could increase if you need to. (Or just follow what Judy said above. We were posting at the same time. :) You can skip that first test at two weeks but definitely don't skip the one at 30 days!)

Absolutely give her the dose in the morning, immediately following a full meal. Those ACTH tests should be started 4-6 hours after the dose for the day. Timing is critical.

Once her cortisol is under control, you should see some improvement in the accidents. That's the first symptom that resolves. :)

[buffysmom]

Oh thanks so much Judy and DoxieMama. It really is nerve-wracking isn't it 😊. One last question...if the med is suppose to be given 4 to 6 hours before the test, do you wake up in the middle of the nite to feed and dose? This is the test that takes 8 hours right? Is it also important that the med be given about the same time every day?

I feel so much better knowing you guys are here...it helps a lot!

[LauraA]

The test should only take an hour :) Usually I feed my girl and give her the tablet @ 7am and she has her test @ 11am. The 8 hour test is only done when diagnosing Cushings and fortunately shouldn't have to be done ever again - such a long day for the pups and us. The meds should be given around the same time each day.

[DoxieMama]

Yep, as Laura said, you should give her the Trilostane at about the same time every morning. I schedule the appointment for 4 hours after our usual breakfast time. For the test, they take a blood sample and then give an injection at that time. One hour later, they take another sample.

We live very close to our vet so we go home in between samples, because I believe it is less stressful for my dog than to stay at the vet's office for that hour. Others stay there with their dog, or even leave them there and pick them up afterward. Whatever works for you is fine. :)

[buffysmom]

Thanks LauraA and DoxieMama ! That is a relief it's only 1 hour for the test. I hated leaving her there all day. Well she has had her first dose. She had become a pro at not taking pills. We've tried everything so the liquid was super easy. Not sure how it will be tomorrow...but she did great today 😊

Now to try and give her a normal day...she does pick up on my emotions and I'm trying not to stare at her waiting for reactions 😊

Thanks everyone !

[buffysmom]

Well we got thru Day 1 😊. Buffy did really well altho I was surprised to walk into the kitchen about an hour ago to see she had 2 small piles. We have only had a problem with urine accidents 😕. I'm pretty sure she was headed to the doggie door and for whatever reason didn't quite make it.

Other than that she's been great and in fact was a little playful when her daddy got home 😊

[buffysmom]

Hi...quick question please! Buffy is doing great but her stool is looser than normal. She doesn't have diarreah...just looser. It is really dark tho and a little like tar. Is this normal?

[labblab]

I hate to alarm you, especially on the weekend :o, but stools that look like black tar can signal GI bleeding of some sort. The dark color and stickiness can actually be from blood that is passing through the intestinal tract. If stools of this nature continue, I'd encourage you to take a stool sample in to your vet first thing tomorrow, if not Buffy herself.

Marianne

[buffysmom]

Thanks...I'll take her and a stool sample in. Don't worry about alarming me...I'd much rather know. Appreciate it.

[buffysmom]

Marianne...I called the vet and she just called back. I'm taking her and a sample in early afternoon tomorrow. She said it's not a hot rush but should be looked into and that is right...black stool is a sign of blood.

Trying to remain calm...she is just doing so great except this 😕

[labblab]

I'm so sorry for the worry between now and then, but I think you're doing the right thing by having this checked out. Since Buffy is otherwise doing well,we'll hope this turns out to be a false alarm. But again, it's good to have it checked out. Please do keep us updated!

Marianne

[buffysmom]

I sure will let you know as soon as we get home. So thankful for your reply. I thought we were doing so well and hopefully we still are. She had no trouble eating tonight 😊

[buffysmom]

Hi Marianne. I woke up this morning to near perfect stool from Buffy. Called the vet and we decided I will just keep my eye on her for now. I am so grateful that you alerted me to the problem....thank you...thank you!

[molly muffin]

She might be having a bit of a tummy upset. My dog gets that quite frequently and perhaps a bit of pepcid would help with that before meals.

[buffysmom]

Hi Sharlene...I guess that could be true although she has really been happy to eat ��. She still sleeps a lot but not to the point I would call her lethargic and last nite the little bugger was up a lot just playing I guess. I think it's because she slept so much during the day. I'd get up to check on her and she was outside or barking or on her way back to bed. She is now getting up and using the doggie door at nite instead of going in her sleep.

[molly muffin]

That is progress, using the doggie door. It means she knows she has to go and can get there without any accidents along the way. Yay

My dog is just prone to tummy upsets, so that is why I thought of it. It might not be the same thing though for Buffy.

[buffysmom]

It really is progress. I was setting the alarm every 2 hours to take her out and still there would be accidents. Last nite I set it for 4:30 and she was already up and outside...phewwww. as for her tummy...trust me...I'll keep that in mind if that stool comes back. Sorry your baby has stomach problems. Buff has always had a cast iron stomach but I know with Cushings...everything can change

[labblab]

So glad to hear that things are back to normal again today. :)

By any chance, though, is Buffy taking any medication for her possible arthritis? Some of the meds that treat arthritis have a higher risk of causing GI irritation or bleeding, especially when used in combination with a supplemental steroid or in Cushpups who have high levels of naturally-occurring cortisol.

Marianne

[buffysmom]

Hi Marianne...no nothing except Proin, which she hates and the vet said I could stop that as soon as Buff stops going in her sleep. I decided to decrease each day just in case this was a fluke. She was licking her private parts and I was worried she could be getting a UTI again, but she has been fine today

[buffysmom]

Hi everyone. Ok...having a slight problem with Buffy. She won't eat so I can give her her medicine in the morning. It's not that she isn't hungry...I think she has figured out if she eats...she will get the medicine. We tried all kinds of food this morning before she would eat. Once I gave her the medicine she ate and ate. That was around 11. Usually she eats by 8:30. Now it's 7...her food is out for an hour and she won't eat. Trust me...if we eat...she will be begging for food. Any ideas how to handle this?

[kanga]

Hello Buffy!Hope you will get better now.
Didn't read all the post but hoping some good improvements about your lovable pup.

[Harley PoMMom]

Buffy is taking the liquid form of Trilostane, right? If so, I wonder if it upsets her tummy? I would ask the vet if giving her Pepcid AC 20-30 minutes before her Trilostane is ok. Another thing I would try is after Buffy gets her Trilostane I'd give her a treat that she really loves, even if it is people food, in that way she may have a positive association with her medicine.

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

Thanks Kanga and Lori. Yes Buffy is taking the liquid Trilostane. I don't believe it's an upset stomach...she will eat our food or treats. It's just her own food she refuses to eat. Spoiled rotten 😊. I did jyst call our vet about it and she said it's ok to give the med later in the day as long as it's with food. What worries me tho is sometimes we both need to leave before 11 in the morning. Vet said to watch her and be sure she doesn't stop eating altogether. I'm wondering if I fix meat like hamburger or something to give her when we have to leave early would be ok. We gave her a can of dog food yesterday from our other dogs and she ate almost the whole thing after refusing her food with goodies 😕.

Oh...once she eats and I give her the medicine...we clap and tell her good girl and give her a treat. She loves that 😊. I just hate this disease. I know compared to others here we have it fairly easy...but at her age...I hate that it's keeping her from having her remainder time carefree and happy.

[lulusmom]

Having had two cushdogs in the past who continued to have very healthy appetites even with treatment, I am not used to dogs with waxing and waning appetites, dogs that don't eat frustrate me. My current pup is a lean, 10 year old Goldendoodle who is a very dainty eater and gets bored with her food quite often. I have had excellent luck with heating Swansons unsalted chicken stock and pouring it over her food. You can make your own stock or bone broth but I've gotten lazy since I found Swansons, which is the only unadulterated brand that does not have onion extract in it. It's not easy to find in the grocery stores but Walmart carries it. It only comes in chicken and is unsalted stock, not broth. It's worth a try.

[buffysmom]

It is worth a try...everything is. This is really frustrating because she has always eaten everything in sight and wanted more. I did try tuna juice...my mom always used it and it worked. I'll sure try to find tge chicken stock. Thanks

[buffysmom]

Lord...just fixed her a scrambled egg and she ate it up. My husband fed her a bit of pork chop and she ate a couple of bites oh her own food. It was noon and I had to give her her meds. Doesn't that sound like she is just spoiled? If I didn't need to give meds on a full stomach I would let her skip a meal

[molly muffin]

Glynda! You doll! No salt chicken broth, might be the answer for us too. Think I'll be checking that out tomorrow. Stores closed today.

I have been cooking a ground protein, like ground chicken or turkey and putting that on top of her food to get her to eat. It's home cooked, and she liked that, chicken is preferred over turkey it seems as she tends to not eat the turkey as well. Luckily I have a butcher and seem to be spending a lot of time there to get her stuff that doesn't have junk in it to cook. She is taking her pills well in a shaved ham that I get them to do for me. I don't have to buy tons at a time luckily so just add it to my grocery bill.

[judymaggie]

Hi! Just going to throw something out there ... it sounds like Buffy knows that, if she refuses to eat her dog food, eventually she will get human food and/or treats. If you and your husband can bear the sad eyes and possible whining, I would suggest that you put down her regular food for 20 minutes. If not eaten, then pick it up and do not give her anything else to eat. Do this three times a day. When she eats some of it, start the cheering but still nothing else to eat. I don't think it would be harmful to stop the trilostane during this time period unless she eats enough to constitute a full meal. I know this all sounds mean but it may be the only way to get her to eat regular food. Also, since Cush pups can be prone to pancreatitis, I would stay away from any pork products.

[buffysmom]

Hey Judy and Sharlene...thanks for the replies. I just might try cooking up ground turkey. Our problem is it takes an hour to get to the store so I guess I could freeze some. Not sure I want to try not giving her her med since she just started. I'd like to wait at least until she is tested after a month. But I was thinking of picking up her meal tonight if she doesn't eat. I give her Proin at nite but I wasn't told that has to be given with a meal. It's our fault for giving her people food...could kick myself but it's never been an issue until this happened.

[buffysmom]

Ok...now I'm kind of freaking out a little...hope someone can help. Buffy once again refused to eat this morning. It's 2 pm and she still won't eat plus she hasn't had a bowel movement since yesterday morning. I took her on a nice long (for her) walk this morning to loosen her up. This just isn't her 😕. I called the vet this morning and they said I can give her the me tonight when she eats and not to pick up her food but let it stay in case she wants to eat it.

What do you guys think. Concerned also we are coming up on a long weekkend.

[judymaggie]

Hi! I'm not a vet and certainly don't want to give you guidance that is contradictory with your vet's advice. Did you cook up the ground turkey? Maybe try some of that mixed in with a small amount of her food.

[buffysmom]

No...I didn't have any ground turkey and the store is over an hour away. I do plan on getting it tho. Probably Tuesday. I finally baked a hamburger patty and she gobbled that up. Enough to give her medicine. She is eating her own food now as I'm typing. I don't understand 😕. I thought maybe she was constipated...but she still hasn't gone. So now I'm wondering if like I said...she is spoiled and decided to get stubborn wanting our food. This stupid disease...so mush guesswork and it just scares me to death that I'll make the wrong choice.

I appreciate so much you guys being here.

[judymaggie]

Hi! Don't beat yourself up -- you are doing fine. Keep in mind that Cushing's is a disease that progresses very slowly. Yes, you want to get to a point where you are consistently giving Buffy her meds but, if you miss a few doses or a few days without dosing, you are not doing Buffy harm. Trying to find the right balance of food that she will eat on a regular basis is important. It might be that rotating some foods will work -- some dogs get bored with their food. Maybe one day give her her food with some ground beef in it -- add some hot water or beef stock/broth to make a gravy. The next day maybe food with turkey. I have found that heating up Abbie's food makes it much more palatable to her. Her food is now some kibble mixed with canned food, pumpkin and chicken.

Hang in there!

[buffysmom]

Thanks so much Judy. I guess I freak a bit because of her age. At 16...I know she doesn't have a whole lot of time left and I just want it to be happy for her. But actually...probably my stress is effecting her the most.

We actually have tried making gravy, adding meat, changing to give her variety...but your meal sounds great. Do you know if their taste buds change with the medicine? She was definately hungry this evening but would only smell and walk away except for the hamburger. Once my husband ate and she realized she wasn't getting a bite...she went over and ate...but earlier nothing was going to tempt her.

[molly muffin]

I don't know if the taste buds change or not. I think nose sensitivity is the big thing. Also I know with Molly she prefers things closer to room temperature than cold.
Molly won't eat if I am not in the room with her. If I walk out of the kitchen she will go lay down somewhere until I go back in the kitchen. She too has been eating if she knows she isn't getting anything we have.

[Whiskey's Mom]

hi! We also had quite a saga with Whiskey and his food. I agree with Sharlene, not sure if it was his taste buds that changed or his sense of smell or both but something definitely changed. We tried many dog foods, dry & wet. Adding people food to get him to eat, serving it hot, cold, room temp-we were desperate and it was expensive! so I understand your frustration. Whiskey has been a foodie his whole life so it was upsetting to see him sniff & look at us like "really?" Then walk away from his dish. Yet he still begged at the table and ate his treats, so his appetite was there. At his age I didn't want to punish him with food, just wanted him to enjoy his meals like he always did. We would garnish his dog food with poached chicken breast & rice with the broth, hard boiled or scrambled eggs, and poached white fish. My big concern after awhile was that he wasn't eating enough dog food to get the vitamins he needed. We finally found a wet food that he liked and began adding less & less people food to it. Then I started adding the matching dry food and now we've transitioned back to all dry. During all this his Vetoryl dosing was changing so Im sure that had something to do with it, and now that his dose is stable his appetite is more consistent. sorry for the long post but I know how frustrating it is, and I hope this helps. :o

[buffysmom]

Thanks Sharlene...Buffy also has liked food warmed up. I think it must release the smells or something. Buffy never needed me right by her to eat...but now does seem to relax and eat better if one of us sit with her. She ate the 2nd half of the hamburger pattie yesterday and walked right over on her own to finish her breakfast last night. I did change her food from the morning because I had mixed a scrambled egg in it and I didn't like it sitting there.

[buffysmom]

Thanks Whiskey Mom. It sure is frustrating...and sad to see them rejecting food that they have always loved. We were also dealing with her constipation and the fact she needed to take her meds. The vet said not a problem to give it to her at night but I'll have to ask her how we can get her test done the next morning. She had a bowel movement finally...not a lot but was firm and is back to her old self altho I haven't given her breakfast yet. My sister suggested breaking her routine and waiting to put it down. Who knows 😊

I believe the vet said you need to leave 12 hours between doses?? I'm not going to give it to her this morning in case I misunderstood that. She has been taking it around 8 am. It sounds like you also have gone through a frustrating time with Whiskey. Buffy has never eaten kibble. I made the mistake of starting her out on Caesars and she WILL NOT change. I tried years ago and the little stinker went almost 3 days without eating. She is most definately stubborn 😊

[buffysmom]

Does anyone know how many hours you have to wait between doses of Vetroyl? Since Buffy wasn't eating...her last dose was last nite. She ate this morning and I'd like to get her back on track of morning doses.

[judymaggie]

Hi! Hooray for eating! :D You really should have 12 hours in between doses and you do need to get back to a morning dose so you can have food and meds before the next ACTH. I would suggest you skip tonight's dose and then get back on schedule tomorrow morning. I'm not sure if your vet was thinking about the monitoring tests when suggesting a night-time dose was okay.

[buffysmom]

Hi Judy...thanks so much for the reply. I think that's what I'll do...good advice 😊. The ground turkey is a miracle worker 😊

[molly muffin]

Glad the ground turkey worked for you. Molly doesn't care for it as much as for ground chicken. That she goes nuts for and mix it with rice and she's a real happy girl. Throw some probiotic on top of it and she thinks she is having a gourmet meal. I just want to get it her eat with her regular kidney dog food (hello no flavor at all she tells me) so she is getting a more balanced meal. Arggghh hard isn't it. :)

[buffysmom]

Hi Sharlene...just lost a post I was writing. I mainly wanted to say thanks for your post and update on Buffy. It's late so I'll do the update tomorrow but wondering if you or anyone knows if it's harmful to feed mainly the ground turkey or meat. Buffy has decided she will get tastier food if she refuses her own food. It wouldn't be so bad if she didn't need to eat with her medicine 😊

[molly muffin]

I think that if you Only feed the meat then you'd have to eventually add in some vitamins so they get a complete nutrition. What I have been doing since now is heating up a bit of the ground chicken and mixing it Thoroughly into her dog food, so she gets a complete nutrition but the flavor of the chicken. Even adding a bit of that no sodium chicken broth if need be to get the flavor mixed in.

[buffysmom]

I have tried mixing it into her food. Sometimes it works...usually it doesnt. I know it's not that she has stopped eating because after trying her food, even with the turkey mixed in, she will devour the heated ground turkey or hamburger. She has always been such a stubborn girl 😊. I worry if she is only eating meat she will get backed up. Maybe add some veggies ground up? I'd call her bluff if she didn't need to eat to take her meds.

She is doing so well. I could kick myself for being so afraid to try this medicine. She went last night with me only seting the alarm once to take her out...NO ACCIDENTS! She also isn't sleeping all day and night. Still does take a lot of naps...but at 16 I think normal. But she has her puppy moments back where she plays or will come charging in from outside and run thru the living room. Love it. Only negatives I've noticed is her hind legs are a little weak and she does a little grunt when she lays down. I'll keep an eye on her for pain.

I don't think I could have done this without you guys. Seriously. Thank you all so much 😊

[Whiskey's Mom]

Your girl sounds like our boy-very clever when it comes to food! Hopefully youll find a combo that she really likes and (almost) consistently eats. Whiskey can still be such a stinker with his dinner, especially if I'm cooking-he knows there's something better than dog food coming up. It's so great when our senior dogs have those puppy moments, I love it too! I'm so glad she's doing better on the meds, great job

[molly muffin]

From what I understand and I'm trying to remember if I read it here or somewhere else, when you are giving things like chicken/turkey they digest pretty well and so you actually end up with less and smaller poops. I've noticed this with molly too.

I think a bunch of it is just that, lets face, the chicken and the turkey taste better so they will hold out for it.

[molly muffin]

hmm, what about adding some steamed vegetables into the turkey?

[buffysmom]

Well about the time I think I have her figured out...she totally changes. As of tonight...she didn't want her chicken. She felt fine...was hungry...but refused it. Wouldn't have worried, but it was time for her flea, tick, heartworm medicine and since she always eats her turkey, I ground it up in the turkey. Stink pot refused it. At 20.00 a pill I wasn't going to give up either. Tried hit dog slices, nope. Tried tiny bites of pork chop, she picked it out and ate it. Tried chicken stock, kicked that and left the food. Finally took little slivers if puperoni and put one piece in at at a time.

I know what you mean about wanting what I'm cooking and figuring she'll get some...but tonight she was mistaken 😊. Sounds unreal but we think she may have figured out her medicine comes after she eats. So if she doesn't eat...no medicine...lol.

Taking her to the vet in the morning. She had a growth removed 2 years ago from her back end. It heals..and then will break open. I think it could itch her and she scoots...but unless she did it outside...she didn't scoot this time. Poor little one...always something. I have put bactine on it...but want it looked at.

[buffysmom]

Ok...new day...new problem 😕. I figured this would show up...Buffy is licking her left front and back leg and is favoring it. I tried to search for info here but for some reason my search isn't working. Buffy was at the vet today...not for this but I did mention it. The vet said she really hates to give meds until it's really necessary and I agree. But if it gets worse...do I use heat or ice? I'm thinking I u may have made matters worse last week. Lightening hit our air conditioner and we had to wait for a part. It got really hot in the house so we put up a couple fans. She layer right in front of it. She still got too hot so I got her wet with room temp water...but later she was panting so I got a wet dish towel and put it on her. She kept it on for about an hour.

I asked the vet to move her test up to this coming Wednesday which will be 3 weeks on the vetroyl. I want to be sure if the dose is right and to be sure we have time to get more.

[Harley PoMMom]

With treatment that elevated cortisol is lowered and sometimes this can unmask arthritic issues, which may be what is happening with Buffy. There are medications and supplements that can help with arthritis.

From what I have read glucosamine/chondroitin are two supplements that are usually given for dogs with arthritis, another medication that some members have used is called Adequan, which is an injectable medication. Fish oil also has some anti-inflammatory properties. Duralactin is another supplement that can be used for arthritis, here's a link to a thread where this medication is discussed: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=58306&highlight=duralactin#post58306

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

With treatment that elevated cortisol is lowered and sometimes this can unmask arthritic issues, which may be what is happening with Buffy. There are medications and supplements that can help with arthritis.

From what I have read glucosamine/chondroitin are two supplements that are usually given for dogs with arthritis, another medication that some members have used is called Adequan, which is an injectable medication. Fish oil also has some anti-inflammatory properties. Duralactin is another supplement that can be used for arthritis, here's a link to a thread where this medication is discussed: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=58306&highlight=duralactin#post58306

Hugs, Lori

Lori...thank you so much for the information. Buffy has been doing so well I hate this has happened. She finally ate around 10 today...and seems to be walking ok...but she lays down and licks her front and back foot on her left side. She also shakes or spasms on that side. The vet said I could but cold on her...but not sure exactly where to put it. Trial and error I guess. I read the thread...thank you! I'll check with her vet to see if there is any reason not to add this. Thank you! Thank you!

[buffysmom]

The vet just ordered Capafin? for Buffy. An anti inflammation drug. Anyone know anything about this?

[lulusmom]

I believe you mean Carprofen which is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug that is prescribed for arthritis as well as muscle and ligament strains and sprains. I've provided a link below to the packaging insert which provides a whole bunch of information on the drug, including reported adverse reactions.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/DrugLabels/UCM050400.pdf

[buffysmom]

Oh thank you so much...I'll read t

[buffysmom]

I just don't know what to do...and sitting here crying isn't the answer. Buffy has been doing so well...but has stopped eating. I did get her to eat half a pork chop this morning...but she's had nothing since. Offered scrambled egg, pork chop, chicken. She will finally try a small bite but spit most of it out. I picked up the Carpifen thus morning but she didn't seem to be in pain until late this afternoon so waited until then to give it to her. I promised her we won't let her hurt 😕

It breaks my heart for her not to eat...she has always loved eating. Any of you think this is a really bad sign? She wouldn't eat last week but only for the morning meal. She doesn't appear to be in pain since she had the Carprofen. Do you think it could be upsetting her stomach?

[Aunt Jana]

Hi, I'm so sorry about Buffy.

The way I give my Pup her pills, which are many! I buy grain free waffles (she has a grain free diet), canned puree pumpkin (only pumpkin). I toast the waffle, slice into 10 diagonal pieces-- a tsp or tbls of pumpkin on each piece with the pill hidden......Done! My Bubbles loves it. We do this twice a day, it's her special treat and the pumpkin--it's fibrous and helps the food nutrients to be absorbed, and she loves it.

I hope this may be of some help. :)

Janet

[buffysmom]

Thanks Janet. I got the Vetoryl in fluid for so I'm able to simply use a little syringe to put in her mouth. The problem is...unless she eats it can't be given. I give her that in the morning. At nite I have to give her Proin which I smash up and put in a tiny amount of frosting...put on my finger and put on the roof of her mouth. She finally ate a little more pork chop late last nite. I figured she would be starving this morning...but nope. Fixed ground turkey...she ate maybe 3 small bites, hamburger...wouldnt touch. I thought yesterday's problem might have been she hadn't had a bowel movement...but she had one lady nite. Waiting for my husband to get up because she trusts him more...he never gives her meds. I'm at a loss. She seems fine other than not eating. You are so lucky you can hide meds in her waffles. Buffy eats whatever it's hidden in and spits out the pill. Always has...even pnut butter. She only wants little bites 😕.

I'm at a loss and it's breaking my heart. I'm thinking I should not try to feed her anything this morning and give her Vetoryl this evening or skip a dose but she is due for her test on Wednesday. Anyone know if that would mess up the test?

[DoxieMama]

Hi... I am not familiar with Carprofen but I searched and found "The most commonly reported side effect is gastrointestinal upset which may result in vomiting, diarrhea, and lack of appetite." So yep, could be upsetting her stomach. That could be helped by giving it to her with food... :/

How is she doing this morning?

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so sorry that Buffy's appetite has not improved and I felt that hopelessness when my boy, Harley, refused to eat.

Dogaware has a really informative article on their website that pertains to a dog with a loss of appetite, here is the link: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjinappetence.html

One of the supplements they recommend is slippery elm bark (SEB) which I and others have tried with success. One caution note with SEB is that it slows down the absorption of other drugs or herbs so it is recommended that it be given 2 hours before or after other herbs or medications. I'm providing a link with information regarding SEB: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

I hope that Buffy's appetite picks up real soon, I know how worrisome it can be when your furbaby does not want to eat.

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

Hi... I am not familiar with Carprofen but I searched and found "The most commonly reported side effect is gastrointestinal upset which may result in vomiting, diarrhea, and lack of appetite." So yep, could be upsetting her stomach. That could be helped by giving it to her with food... :/

How is she doing this morning?

I read that also before giving it to her...but I didn't see any of that. She was refusing food before 😕. It did seem to help the shaking and spasms but unless I feel she is hurting today...I won't give it to her. Thanks for the info tho.

[buffysmom]

I am so sorry that Buffy's appetite has not improved and I felt that hopelessness when my boy, Harley, refused to eat.

Dogaware has a really informative article on their website that pertains to a dog with a loss of appetite, here is the link: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjinappetence.html

One of the supplements they recommend is slippery elm bark (SEB) which I and others have tried with success. One caution note with SEB is that it slows down the absorption of other drugs or herbs so it is recommended that it be given 2 hours before or after other herbs or medications. I'm providing a link with information regarding SEB: http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

I hope that Buffy's appetite picks up real soon, I know how worrisome it can be when your furbaby does not want to eat.

Hugs, Lori

Hi Lori...thanks...I'll read these and check with the vet about the slippery elm bark. I'm just at a loss here. Everything just seems fine except this.

[molly muffin]

Would the arthritis injections perhaps help? Then you might not need the Carprofen and that might make Buffy feel better and want to eat?

Just a thought, but might be worth it. I had about a week or so of molly not wanting to eat too and it scared the bejeebes out of me.

If you skip a dose, it probably will be fine. And then if Buffy eats breakfast, you can give it to her. I give breakfast and then the medication to make sure molly is eating first. So that's a thought too.

Without any pills, just try some different options and see if Buffy will take any of them. Literally getting them to eat is most important for over all health I think. So, pork chop, cream cheese, waffle, whatever she will take, when you have that big of a problem with food intake, then it is more of a matter of getting them food than in what the food is. Especially for small amounts.

[Aunt Jana]

Maybe ask the vet for a different drug, sounds like it is not helping with what you were already were dealing with. There usually is something else out there. We went from Fenarbitol to Keppra. Also, there are people drugs for appetite loss--maybe dogs can take it.

I hope you find some something to help your situation.

[buffysmom]

Thanks Sharlene and Aunt Jana. All very good suggestions. I only gave Buffy the one pill. She stopped shaking and clutching within about 20 minutes and went to sleep for a little nap. She finally started eating yesterday. She wouldn't eat for either of us but finally...I broke off a little piece and when she took it and ate it...I started clapping and saying good girl...lol. My husband looked at me like I was nuts...Buffy decided it was fun so we did that for every bite. Hey whatever works...lol. We talked about it and decided maybe she just doesn't need to eat as much so we cut out last night's meal...gave her a couple bites of beef we had for dinner and this morning she finished her turkey.

I will remember the arthritis shots...surprised the vet didn't offer that. Buffy is showing minor signs of arthritis and she has definitely lost muscle in her hind legs but I was so shocked she was having pain like that.

Once again you guys have walked me thru this and calmed me down. I hate calling the vet all the time...but I'll do anything to help my baby. I understand they are busy...but I have this fear I'll not call or something and cause Buffy a bigger problem or worse. You all will ever realize how much you have helped me already!

[lulusmom]

Hi Buffysmom,
I have posted once or twice to your thread to answer immediate questions but I have just now gone back and digested all of your posts. I have a multitude of questions about the diagnosis and the lab results you posted. At this point, without more information from you, I have great concerns about the validity of the cushing’s diagnosis.

Let’s start with symptoms that you felt were strong enough to make you convince your vet to test for cushing’s. You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that Buffy had a problem with increased drinking and peeing and urine leakage when at rest. You also stated that the increased drinking and peeing got better she continued to experience incontinence when sleeping. You also said the vet put her on proin. Since the drinking and peeing improved well before you started treatment, I have huge concerns that the only symptom Buffy had associated with cushing’s resolved on its own which suggests that perhaps cushing’s was never the problem.

With abnormal drinking and peeing being the primary symptoms, your vet should have immediately done a urinalysis, including a urine culture. I didn’t see that you posted any urine test results? Were any done by your vet to rule out a urinary tract infections and to check urine specific gravity (USG). If Buffy’s increase and drinking and peeing were being caused by excess cortisol, her USG would be low and there would be a very high probablility that she had a urinary tract infection; hence, the need for these urine tests.

You mentioned that the diagnostic tests were done on a full stomach and that your vet said that non fasting would not be a problem. I disagree with that statement. A low dose dexamethasone test must be done with a fasted specimen as it is well known that food can cause an increase in cortisol which could yield a false positive result. Was Buffy fasted for the LDDS? Any blood chemistry done on a dog suspected of cushing’s should be fasted for blood chemistry as a recent meal can skew some of the same blood enzymes that are commonly abnormal in dogs with cushing’s. For instance, a recent meal can put extra fat in the blood which will increase cholesterol and triglycerides, both of which can be mildly elevated by cushing’s. Were the blood labs on June 8th done with a fasted specimen?

At this point in time, you stated that your vet was upset because you had not started treatment with Vetoryl. Why is your vet convinced Buffy has cushing’s? The LDDS doesn’t tell her whether Buffy has pituitary or adrenal dependent disease and Buffy’s only symptom seemed to resolve before treatment even started. Was the last blood chemistry done with a fasted sample? I ask because there are abnormalities and higher than the usual elevations in some of the abnormal values that we don’t see in cushing’s which could suggest that something else is going on with Buffy. Did your vet do an abdominal ultrasound to determine which form of cushing’s Buffy has as well as to check the adrenal glands and liver for the usual abnormalities associated with excess steroid? The ultrasound could also identify any problems with surrounding organs.

Lastly, I’d like to discuss Proin. Is Buffy still receiving Proin? If so, you should know that while most dogs do quite well on the drug, some dogs can experience one or many of the known side effects, some of which can be very serious. “The most commonly reported side effect were vomiting, loss of appetite, diarrhea, excessive salivation, agitation, tiredness, vocalization, confusion, increased water consumption, weight loss, weakness, fever, panting and reversible changes in skin color (flushing or bright pin). Abnormal gait, seizures or tremors, as well as liver enzyme elevations, kidney failure, blood in urine and urine retention have been reported. In some cases death, including euthanasia has been reported, Sudden death was sometimes preceded by vocalization or collapse.” As you can see some of the symptoms you have shared with us are included in that list.

Knowing what I’ve learned over the last decade, if Buffy were my dog, I wouldn't be able to determine if the diagnosis is correct and I most certainly would not choose to treat my 16 year old dog unless I was sure she had cushing’s and even then, if her blood pressure was okay and she didn't have any protein in her urine, I wouldn't opt to treat at all. If I were to opt to treat, I would absolutely not be giving my dog Vetoryl if and until her appetite was normal again. Giving bites of people food here and there is not normal. When is the last time Buffy had a normal appetite and was eating a dog appropriate diet, whether commercially or home prepared?

I apologize for the novel but your answers to my many questions will help greatly in trying to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and there are more than a few missing pieces of Buffy’s puzzle. I honestly cannot follow your vet's rationale based on the information you have provided thus far so I will reserve judgment about his/her experience but based on what you have shared, I would have to assume that his/her experience is limited. I hope I have not overwhelmed you too much and I will be looking forward to hearing a lot more about your precious Buffy's diagnostic journey.

Glynda

[randomguy]

Hi Glynda, not sure if this is the right place or not to ask, but since I read your reply and it's in this thread I figured I'd ask: why not treat your (hypothetical) 16 year old dog if it had Cushings if BP and protein in the urine weren't a problem? Again, apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, and thanks! :)

[lulusmom]

Hi Glynda, not sure if this is the right place or not to ask, but since I read your reply and it's in this thread I figured I'd ask: why not treat your (hypothetical) 16 year old dog if it had Cushings if BP and protein in the urine weren't a problem? Again, apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, and thanks! :)

Cushing's is a very graded disease, moving at the proverbial snail's pace and up until a few years ago, nobody on this site would recommend treatment in the absence of symptoms. The goal of treatment had always been to resolve problematic symptoms, which are usually more a problem for the pet owner than the pet. What changed our longstanding feedback was a study that came out a few year ago suggesting that perhaps early treatment isn't such a bad idea especially if the dog has high blood pressure and persistent proteinuria. Both of these conditions can definitely do some damage over time so you definitely want to keep an eye on those things, whether you treat or not.

If I had a very senior dog, and as a small senior dog rescuer, I've had plenty of those, I would put quality of life over quantity of life, especially if a dog was at, near or over their life expectancy and had the complications of degenerative joint or disk disease. Lowering cortisol via treatment can greatly compromise quality of life so why subject a geriatric dog, with mild and/or manageable symptoms, who will probably die of old age before cushing's take his/her live, to the poking and prodding of the necessary testing that comes with treatment and the severe pain of arthritis or other debilitating issue that is unmasked with treatment? Here is an excerpt I shared with another member from the Feldman and Nelson Canine and Feline Endocrinology and Reproduction veterinary textbook that might help:


To Treat or Not to Treat

The “urban legend” exists that survival is the same whether or not a dog with HAC is treated. That statement has never been scientifically evaluated. It may be true for some dogs, but likely not all. Importantly, treatment typically greatly improves quality of life for both the owner and dog.

On the other hand, not all dogs with positive tests for HAC need to be treated and the decision should be made on a case-by-case basis. In deciding when to treat, consideration should be given to the dog, quality of life, the owner, and clinical signs. None of the drugs are cheap and neither mitotane nor trilostane are benign; therefore, treatment is not to be taken lightly. If the only clinical sign is a benign clinicopathologic finding (e.g. elevated serum ALP activity) treatment is not warranted (neither is testing). If the issue is only cosmetic (e.g., poor hair) or very mild (e.g., slight increase in thirst and urination), a frank discussion should be had with the owner of the risks and benefits. In making the decision, further questioning of the owner on issues that might relate to clinical signs (e.g., the dog has stopped jumping on furniture –a sign of possible muscle weakness) can be helpful, as well as seeking evidence of clinical signs that the owner might not note (e.g., serial evaluation of urine samples collected at home for consistent suggestion of polyuria/polysipsia). It is also important to test for proteinuria by measurement of a UPCR and for hypertension by measurement of blood pressure. Both can damage the body; so if either or both are present and due to HAC, treatment may be more imperative. On the other hand, clinical signs may be recognized in retrospect; for example, an owner attributes decreased playing to old age, but when HAC is treated, the activity increases. Treatment of HAC can unmask diseases that may be inapparent due to the anti-inflammatory effects of hypercortisolemia. For example, clinical signs of atopy or degenerative joint disease may develop with treatment of HAC as cortisol concentrations decrease.

Therapy without knowing whether AT or PT
At times the differentiation between PDH and AT is not possible due to such issues as owner financial constraints or inconclusive or conflicting results on differentiating tests. In such a situation, given that the vast majority of dogs have PDH, therapy can be initiated accordingly. However, the owners should understand that an accurate prognosis cannot be given and that attempting to differentiate between the forms once therapy is started is quite difficult, if not impossible.

[randomguy]

Thank you very much for the reply. It certainly is something to think about. Now I wonder if I should be treating my 14-15 year old dog. How do you decide if it's worth treating or not? The vet and I talked about it and he certainly seemed to think it was worth trying. We talked about possible arthritis and so far my dog doesn't seem bothered by that. I definitely noticed muscle wasting and lower energy, so I thought I was doing the right thing. I think he's still got life left in him; he's a pretty happy guy. He seems to be tolerating the medicine well too. I think I'll wait for a while and then decide. Ugh...I dunno what to do! :(

[lulusmom]

If you and your vet talked about treatment and you decided to move forward with it, then please don't regret it. It was certainly not my intention to raise questions about anybody's decision to treat. It is a very personal decision and you know your dog best. My goal is to share my own opinions based on the facts presented as well as share credible resources for those who may want or need to know. I am following your thread, randomguy, and so are many others. If we members had questions about your decision to treat based on confusing diagnostics or other circumstances, we would have asked questions or shared appropriate information. Just keep following proper treatment monitoring protocol and keep us posted. By the way, you are now part of the family so you aren't such a random guy anymore. :D

[randomguy]

Thank you for the kind words lulusmom! You guys have really been amazing. I really appreciate everything you're doing for everyone! :) I am starting to wonder if my dog is just kind of tired from being on Vetoryl initially or if he has arthritis. I guess I'm about 50/50. Didn't notice any tiredness for the first few days but I think I have been lately, and I dont know what its due to. Appetite and everything else is great, though. I'll save that for my thread, though, so i dont clutter this one! Hmm... :/

[Joan2517]

If I had it to do over again, knowing what I do now from being a part of this forum, I would not have treated my Lee. I would have let her live out whatever time she had left without all the testing, vet visits and medication. I was so consumed with treatment that I did not enjoy the time I had left with her, and as it turned out, it was very short. I thought we would have more time.

[buffysmom]

Hi Glynda...so sorry I didn't read this earlier today. I'll try to answer all your questions the best I can. I have had 3 separate vets over the past 3 and a half years. The first vet said he believed Buffy had cancer because she kept coughing and had lumps on her chest. After asking if I would treat her for cancer I told him no. He agreed with my decision and said she wasn't in any pain. I took her to vet number 2 and he didn't think she had cancer but agreed not to test her if I wasn't going to treat. He felt she had allergies, treated her for the cough and yeast infections several times over the year or so. She was licking her private parts all the time and even tho she is groomed monthly...she has always had problems with her ears.

When I began researching Cushings and insisting on the test she was compulsively drinking water and urinating while asleep. I began waking her at nite at least 5 times and still her bed would be soaked. We noticed her hindquarters weren't allowing her to climb up the stairs to our bed. She was sleeping almost all day and night and only once in a while refused to eat her breakfast.

Proin was given to her by the first vet for leaking. It helped and I stopped it until she would start leaking again. The 2nd vet increased from 25 to 50 MG when it stopped helping and that worked until about 3 months ago. I was told by him she is just getting old and other than an operation there was really nothing else to do. That was his explanation for sleeping so much also.

I changed vets to the current vet because he was always just to busy. Buffy was given the test on a full stomach. I did ask before the test day came and she said that was fine. So if it's not fine or if Buffy doesn't have Cushings will the test this Wednesday tell me? Obviously she will gave to eat for the test to take the meds.

Urinary tract infections. Yes, Buffy has had urinary tract infections and was treated for that with the yeast and ear infection with prednisone for 3 weeks about 2 months before I suspected Cushings.

I have asked tge current vet about her blood pressure but she says she can't get an accurate reading because Buff is so hyper at the office.

The vet said the test showed that Buffy definitely has Cushings and said treating her is important for liver, etc. I asked her what kind of Cushings and she told me the test doesn't show that and it didn't really matter unless I wanted to do surgery.

Please don't apologize for caring. It's why we are all here. Buffy ate this morning, did not want her dog food tonight but had some beef.

Now it's my turn to apologize. I need to get to sleep. I'll read the rest tomorrow and reply if I've missed some. Thank you so much.

[buffysmom]

If I had it to do over again, knowing what I do now from being a part of this forum, I would not have treated my Lee. I would have let her live out whatever time she had left without all the testing, vet visits and medication. I was so consumed with treatment that I did not enjoy the time I had left with her, and as it turned out, it was very short. I thought we would have more time.

I am so sorry you are second guessing your decision. I don't know how much time we have left with Buffy...what I do know is as devastated as I know I will be...I'll also know I tried my best to make the right decisions. I'll know she had a great life and knows how loved she is. I also decided from the beginning I wasn't going to treat her. It's actually from the vets advice and reading this forum that I changed my mind. Buffy is doing better most days and I know I will not let her suffer. I have some questions for the vet because of the discussions here. I understand about hating the meds and vet visits tho.

[Joan2517]

As it's been pointed out to me many times, by many people, I would've second guessed myself no matter which way I went! I know I did everything I could for her with the knowledge I had at the time. I loved her so, so much...I just wanted her to feel better, but I don't think she did. The vet visits started to frighten her and she got very suspicious of her food, knowing there were pills mixed in there.

I just miss her every day and wish the outcome had been different. I would like to have had more time to get used to the idea that I was going to lose her, even to old age. She never seemed old to me, even at almost 15. I just never wanted to face the fact that she would leave me at some point.

[DoxieMama]

Buffysmom, randomguy and Joan.... I've read each of your threads and I hope Buffysmom doesn't mind my replying to all of you in hers. You have all done, and continue to do, the very best given your knowledge and information at the time. They say hindsight is 20/20 but I believe that is not always the case, especially concerning health decisions. And when it comes to our pets? Fugetaboutit!!

We just have to try to show our pups as much love as they show us. That's what counts to them... that's what counts.

Hugs,
Shana

[Squirt's Mom]

What Shana said!!!

[molly muffin]

Shawna really did say it well.
We do what we can with the knowledge we have.

[buffysmom]

Shawna and all of you...I agree. Buff goes for her test tomorrow. I will question the vet again about having the first test on an empty stomach. Her appetite was good this morning and tonight. I'm concerned about a growth on her hind flank. I'm not sure if she licks the skin off or scoots. I had the vet look at it and she gave me some cream to heal it. It did work..but this morning I woke up and it was wide open again. We had it burned off a couple of times in the past 3 years but it just grows back even larger. Vet said it needs to be surgically removed but she doesn't want to put Buffy under unless absolutely necessary. It doesn't seem to be tender or bother her once it breaks.

[buffysmom]

Long story...but there was a mixup and Buffy didn't get her test. Buffy is starting to show signs of needing a higher dose. She has gone in the house twice today altho the weird thing is...we can't find any place that is wet. She is right here in tge living room with us both times. She was licking but we've stopped her fairly soon. I just find it hard to believe she could get that wet by licking for a few seconds. My second thought is she could be leaking and her hair is catching the fluid. She is also eating again. I've been giving her a new dog food but she can't seem to get enough food. Sure sounds like before.

We can't increase her medicine until we have the test right? The vet just ordered what she needs yesterday. Like I said...there was a mixup on her end. Not sure what to do here.

[Harley PoMMom]

Gosh I'm sorry that Buffy wasn't able to have her ACTH stim test performed, this must be so frustrating :( I would highly recommend not increasing her Vetoryl dose until you know where her cortisol level is at because we have seen dogs that were acting fine and then when tested their cortisol was actually too low. Another thought, the accidents and licking can be symptoms of an UTI, so if feasible, I'd have her urine checked.

Hang in there, ok!

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

Hi Lori...to say the fact that Buffy wasn't tested is frustrating is a major understatement! We went to pick up her vetroyl yesterday that was suppose to be rush federal expressed to the vet and after tracking it the vet explained it won't be in until Monday afternoon. That means days without her medicine. Will that effect her test which is now scheduled for Thursday?

Buff is doing better with the licking...but after a couple of days of her enjoying food she is once again refusing dog food. Her stools are normal...of course today is the first day of not taking the meds. Too long of a story to go into everything we have been thru and so far the only good part is she is doing well.

We also learned that the tests will cost 350.00. I wondered why since we were told mistakenly a blood sample was all that was needed. Her low dose test was only 150 I believe. I did ask if we could split the vial for the 1st 2 tests and we are doing that (thank you guys for letting us know to ask for that). After that the vial needs to be used within a month so we can't do that.

I will have her checked for a UTI but in the past we have known because of the nonstop licking. Thanks so much for your continued support and info.

[buffysmom]

Tried to get her tested...but they couldn't get a urine sample. Her test is Thursday so we are going to see how she does till then. Her only symptom is licking and even tgat has gotten better.

[Harley PoMMom]

We went to pick up her vetroyl yesterday that was suppose to be rush federal expressed to the vet and after tracking it the vet explained it won't be in until Monday afternoon. That means days without her medicine. Will that effect her test which is now scheduled for Thursday?

If she started taking her Vetoryl on Monday and her ACTH stimulation test is not until Thursday, I think that is enough time for the Vetoryl to be in her system to get accurate results, just remember to give her the dose of Vetoryl with a meal on the day of her stim test and make sure that the test is performed 4-6 hours post pill.



We also learned that the tests will cost 350.00. I wondered why since we were told mistakenly a blood sample was all that was needed. Her low dose test was only 150 I believe. I did ask if we could split the vial for the 1st 2 tests and we are doing that (thank you guys for letting us know to ask for that). After that the vial needs to be used within a month so we can't do that.



Unfortunately those ACTH stimulation tests are ridiculously expensive, and it's due to the stimulating agent, Cortrosyn. :mad: The ACTH stim test consists of 2 blood draws; the first one is for the baseline/pre level than the Cortrosyn is injected and an hour later another blood draw is collected which is the post result.

I'm puzzled as to why the frozen reconstituted Cortrosyn needs to be used one month...according to Dr. Peterson:


When frozen properly, aliquots can be stored for up to 6 months without loss of efficacy.

You're doing a great job especially with all the frustrations you are going through!

Hugs, Lori

[buffysmom]

Lori...thank you so much. I'll bring it up to our vet what Dr. Peterson says. I should probably take info in with me...is this here in the resources?

Buffy did really well while off the medicine, but started leaking today. Today was her first day back on because we weren't able to get it until around 5 last nite and I wanted to get her back on a morning schedule. Her test is still scheduled for Thursday.

Thanks so much...this week has been one of the worst. I feel like sometimes people really think I should butt out...but I'm not going to do that. I know we don't have a long time left with her just due to her age...let alone Cushings, but while she's here...I'm her protector and that's just something I'm not willing to go on blind faith.

[Harley PoMMom]

Lori...thank you so much. I'll bring it up to our vet what Dr. Peterson says. I should probably take info in with me...is this here in the resources?

Here's a direct link to that article on Dr Peterson's blog: http://www.endocrinevet.info/2011/03/how-to-extend-your-supply-of-cortrosyn.html


I'm her protector and that's just something I'm not willing to go on blind faith.

We certainly understand how you feel about your precious girl and I think it is commendable that you are so actively involved with Buffy's health care.

Hugs, Lori

[labblab]

How many days did Buffy go without the Vetoryl before resuming it yesterday? If it was quite a long time and she will only have had three doses by tomorrow, I think I would postpone the test until early next week.

Marianne

[buffysmom]

How many days did Buffy go without the Vetoryl before resuming it yesterday? If it was quite a long time and she will only have had three doses by tomorrow, I think I would postpone the test until early next week.

Marianne

She was off since last Friday...so almost a week. Counting tomorrow she will have been back on 3 days. I did ask about that...but she said it would be fine. Please let me know if you think we should wait. Appreciate it 😊

[buffysmom]

Oh Lori...thank you so much for the link...I will take the article and show her. Thanks for the compliment about taking care of Buffy. Sometimes I think it it's the hardest part of this disease dealing with people. We are already emotional about our babies and then you get the eye rolls or people saying just let her go...she's already 16. Anyways...another day 😊

[molly muffin]

I think I would want a good week or so under your belt again before doing an ACTH test after being off that long. Just my thoughts.

Well some will never get it and always roll their eyes. Then there are those of us who just do get it and are the same way. :)

[Whiskey's Mom]

In the past, My vet wanted Whiskey to be back on his Vetoryl for 7 days straight before doing an ACTH again.
Ohhhh, the eye rollers. They just dont get it! Who cares, everyone here gets it! If I have to hear, "oh look at that white face!" one more time :mad:

[DoxieMama]

Pfffffft on all of those people. I am sorry they don't get to experience what WE do with our babies. They're missing out.

[buffysmom]

Thank you so much Sharlene, Doxie Mom and Whiskey's Mom. I am going to wait on the test. I'll call the vet when they open. It just doesn't make sense to me that we would get a good reading after only being on for 3 days and I don't see how it could hurt to wait a few days to a week.

Wanted to especially thank all of you and everyone else here for your much needed posts. I guess I know to ignore the eye rollers but some days it gets to be a bit much I guess, but coming online reading your posts really is uplifting. Thank you so much 😊

[buffysmom]

So confused. Buffy has been doing really well altho is not interested in food. But las night I woke up and she was licking her back leg to tge point I thought she had wet. I got up and put a cold pack on her for about 5 minutes and she seemed fine. Went back to bed and she began licking her front foot. She finally did stop but about an hour later I saw she was licking again but this time she had wet her bed. Got her cleaned up and she slept.

This morning once again she is refusing to eat. She isn't in pain...I took her out on a leash to see her dad leave (my husband) and she was running and playing. Came inside and just wants to sleep...still not eat. I finally cooked some breaded chicken which she loves and she ate enough that I felt comfortable giving her meds. I have pain pills...but other than last nite I really don't think she is in pain. Ackkkkkkk

[Whiskey's Mom]

Ugh it is confusing! Whiskey has been licking the bottom of his front paw. It's not red or irritated & he's not limping. Wonder if it's a bug bite or just habit. Hopefully you can get her to eat her favorites for now.

[buffysmom]

I've made every favorite she has today with no luck. She gave me quite the scare this afternoon. She was laying on her bed and started shaking. I called the vet and unfortunately she had left early and will not be in tomorrow. I was in a bit of a panic. I didn't want to give her a pain pill because I really didn't feel she was in pain. I thought about giving her prednisone...but she had her med in tge morning so I didn't think that would help either. I ended up giving her a teaspoon of mineral oil because she still hadn't had a bowel movement. She stopped shaking but still wouldn't eat. She finally ate some more breaded chicken...but as of now...still no bowel movement.

[DoxieMama]

Oh how we understand the struggle of what to do, when...

She hasn't eaten much lately, right? That may be why there's no bowel movement... she's absorbed enough to not have anything left. At least that's what I tell myself when my guy is that way...

[Harley PoMMom]

I don't know if this was asked, so forgive me if someone already did :o Has Buffy's mouth been checked out to see if she may have a bad tooth or something else in her mouth that could be giving her trouble which could make it difficult or painful to eat?

[buffysmom]

I don't know if this was asked, so forgive me if someone already did :o Has Buffy's mouth been checked out to see if she may have a bad tooth or something else in her mouth that could be giving her trouble which could make it difficult or painful to eat?

The vet does look in her mouth but more to see the color of her gums. I had the same thought and have looked but will ask the vet to look for any problems this week. Buff finally had a bowel movement last night. Now my only concern is this morning her stool was between yellow and orange in color. From what I've read that could indicate anything from liver to the fact the food traveled too fast thru her digestive tract. Oh goodie and they all suggest giving olive oil instead of mineral oil. Geeeez...so hard to know what to do for our little ones.

Thanks for your question...I will for sure ask about her mouth 😊

[buffysmom]

Oh how we understand the struggle of what to do, when...

She hasn't eaten much lately, right? That may be why there's no bowel movement... she's absorbed enough to not have anything left. At least that's what I tell myself when my guy is that way...

Smiling right now because I've had the same conversations with myself. Just getting up this morning and reading these comments help so much. She got up to go outside but is back to bed which is normal. Crossing my fingers she will want to eat this morning. I guess dog food is a thing from the past now. She was loving ground turkey but hasn't wanted that lately either.

[Whiskey's Mom]

Me too! My head spins with all the questions & answers & trying to remember what I read here!! Whiskey has had the yellowish orangish brownish goldish stool for awhile now too. And we were back to normal texture for a bit but today we had normal followed by mush. Where he was squatting for awhile after with no results :(. But he ate normally(half the new dog food half chicken and rice). Plus you wonder if they have a tummy ache or what ever else. How about feeding her some fish? Or plain potato? Pumpkin? Don't want to repeat the advice of others but it's hard to keep it all straight in your mind isn't it?? :confused:

[buffysmom]

Me too! My head spins with all the questions & answers & trying to remember what I read here!! Whiskey has had the yellowish orangish brownish goldish stool for awhile now too. And we were back to normal texture for a bit but today we had normal followed by mush. Where he was squatting for awhile after with no results :(. But he ate normally(half the new dog food half chicken and rice). Plus you wonder if they have a tummy ache or what ever else. How about feeding her some fish? Or plain potato? Pumpkin? Don't want to repeat the advice of others but it's hard to keep it all straight in your mind isn't it?? :confused:

She refuses dog food anymore...so we've been trying to get her to eat meat which the vet said would be ok. She's back to eating today...phewwww...but I did get a bit of rice in her hamburger tonight for fiber. I also bought some oatmeal today which I will try tomorrow. I don't see her eating it...but you never know. She has had a good day today...which means so have I 😊.

I did try tuna yesterday and she has never liked potatoes. Thru the years if she has had a stomach upset I've given her rice and she ate it...so made some tonight. Little babies...sure wish they could talk.

[buffysmom]

Ok so Buffy doesn't want food again and has not had a bowel movement sine yesterday morning. My husband has said several times to stop giving her a morning meal...which would mean I couldn't give her her medicine. He said do thus during the time she isn't being tested then have her eat and take meds tge morning if the test two questions please.

1. How much time needs to be between the doses. For instance if I've given it to her say at 8 pm and then have to give it to her 8 the next morning...is that enough time?

2. Just how much food is needed when she takes it? Is it just enough to help it down the digestive tract or does it need to be a full meal?

Thank you ��

[judymaggie]

Hi! I apologize for not responding sooner. In order for the ACTH to be accurate, Buffy really needs to be taking Vetoryl consistently -- I would think for at least 10 days. By consistently, I mean every day at the same time, i.e., after a full morning meal. Unfortunately, a little bit of food given so that the Vetoryl is swallowed is not sufficient to help with absorption. If you are dosing Buffy once a day, then 24 hours should pass in between doses in order to keep a level dose of Vetoryl in her system. It is okay to vary this a bit, i.e., 8 a.m. one day and 8:30 a.m. the next.

Have you spoken with your vet about Buffy's lack of appetite and the difficulty with keeping her on a regular dose of Vetoryl?

[buffysmom]

Yes...we have talked to the vet about Buffs lack of appetite. She doesn't seem concerned as long as it doesn't last more than a day and as long as she is drinking water. So far we have not had to miss a dose but there were a couple of days we couldn't get her to eat until 11 or so. I doubt we will ever get her on a consistent schedule. This morning she actually woke up wanting to eat so I'm praying it's going to continue. She seems back to her old self today 😊. She is suppose to have her test tomorrow but I will ask about the different times. This is already a week past when the vet wanted to do the test.

Thank you for your post. If it has to continue being within a half hour each day...we are lost 😕

[judymaggie]

If it has to continue being within a half hour each day...we are lost 😕

Hi! Don't have angst over the timing -- it is more important that Buffy is eating and feeling good!

[buffysmom]

Buffy finally had her test today...she is such a good little girl. Anyways...asked about the timing since we can't get her to eat at a consistent time. She said that would be ideal but with a dog who often doesn't want to eat you just can't always. Her weight has remained consistent so thats great. She was starving after the test...does that happen a lot? She didn't want to eat this morning so I fixed her a scrambled egg. She's been feeling great, eating and playing today 😊

[buffysmom]

Thought I would check in. Buffy has good and bad days...mostly good I guess. She sleeps so much but seems fine when she's awake. She has started having accidents again at nite and drinks a lot of water. I asked if her meds should be increased but the vet said she hates to increase again since she did after her last test. She is taking 1.1 mL once a day in liquid form and is now back on Proin 50 MG at nite. She has quite a few spots that looks like warts on her body and 2 have opened and bled. One other problem is at times her stool appears very dark with almost a foamy substance. The vet said she really feels that's due to her liver. We feel blessed to still have her with us still. She still has her fun little personality most of the time but at other times I feel so bad for her.

[Squirt's Mom]

awwww, sounds like things are going pretty good all things considered. Squirt had many bumps, etc. in her latter years, thankfully none were anything more than unsightly and at times messy - but they served to give me something else to worry about any way. :D Hope Buffy continues to enjoy her days, even if that means one lovely nap after another. ;)

[buffysmom]

Well...I'll try this for the third time...lol. thank you so much for your kind words. These spots aren't hurting her...not yet anyway but you are right, they are unsightly. It's fine as long as she's not hurting but they do itch and when she scrathe they tend to break open. I'm not sure what to do about her grooming. They use an electric razor and even tho I ask them to be careful it seems they shave the tips off. We are in a tiny town and she isn't tolerating long rides anymore so I may just have to learn it myself!

[molly muffin]

Maybe they could use a blade for a longer cut that wouldn't get as close to the skin so as not to take the tips of the warts off?

I always go by quality of life, as long as they are enjoying their days and not suffering then you are doing good. :)

[buffysmom]

Hi Sharlene...actually I asked for a longer cut thinking it would solve the problem. It didn't. I'm either going to start grooming myself or try to find someone who gives a scissor cut. I totally agree...quality of life is my No. 1 concern. I made her a promise when she was diagnosed that we will battle this together but that I will never let her suffer.

We had to stop her Proin for a few days...she is vomiting once a day. The vet thinks it's the Proin...I don't think so...but will try.

[judymaggie]

Hi--my previous Cush pup, Maggie, was on Proin for quite a while but it never worked well. I talked to my vet about trying "Leaks No More", a holistic product, and he said there was nothing in it that would bother her and it was worth a try. It worked great! After a few months I didn't need to use it any more. I bought the first bottle at a health food store that also carried pet products but later found it less expensive at on-line stores. Just a thought --

[buffysmom]

Oh I'll look into that. I asked our vet if there was anything at all we could try and she said no, nothing. Proin has worked well for us until now and I'm really not convinced it's what is causing her problem but she hates the taste so much. She had 2 accidents yesterday and last nite without the Proin. Thank you so much for the info.

[molly muffin]

Oh hadn't heard of Leaks No More Judy. Good idea. I hope it helps Buffy too.

[buffysmom]

Anyone experience their baby vomiting bile? Buffy has lost her appetite and does finally eat so it's not an empty stomach but this morning stood up and it just came out of her mouth. No heaving or anything. It wasn't much but then walked into the kitchen and vomited a lot of bright yellow. I'll call the vet tomorrow, but I'm really worried. She has been spitting up for a few days but nothing like this.

[Harley PoMMom]

Is she still taking the Proin? One of the side effects of Proin is vomiting and lack of appetite.

[Harley PoMMom]

Does she have diarrhea? And when was her last ACTH stim test and what were those results?

[buffysmom]

She is still taking Proin. She doesn't have diarreah which is great because she has had a loose stool that finally firmed up about a week ago. Her next test is November 14 and the vet said because of symptoms, drinking so much and having accidents, that we will most likely need to increase but wait and see. We took her to the vet Friday because she has an ear infection. She jus ate some soft kibble on her own...usually we hhae to really coax her.

[dsbailey]

If your girl is having a problem with Proin the alternative is DES (Diethylstilbestrol). That's what my girl has taken for about 3 years. I just thought I'd throw that out there if you start looking for an alternative. ;)

Darrell and Lolita

[buffysmom]

Thanks so much. I wish I knew what is going on. I've had several vets tell me there is nothing else to take so I'll look into all that you here have told me about. She seems fine now that she emptied the bile and got something on her tummy. I I'm also going to try and give 3 small meals if I can get her to eat. Love her so much and worry when things like this happen it's nearing the end

[dsbailey]

They may be unfamiliar, my vet gets it compounded. It carries the pregnant women shouldn't handle it, etc. warnings. It's a synthetic estrogen and should be used at the lowest possible dose that controls breakthrough. My girl takes 1 mg every three days.

[molly muffin]

Does sound like a stomach upset. Maybe a snack before bedtime will help with the mornings?

[buffysmom]

It's been quite a while since I've been back. It turned out Buffy had acid stomach and we started giving her 5 mg of an over the counter acid pill and after a few days she began eating again. She has been doing really well but now has started losing a lot of weight. 6 lbs in about 5 months. We just had another test run and the vet believes she has 6 months to live...I believe less. She is anemic so we are going to treat her for that plus she may have beginnings of Addisons. At her age we are not going to stress her with new tests and treatments.

Incredibly sad, but our wonderful vet together with all of your support has bought us 9 months and maybe another 6 months of time with her. She is not in any pain and we are blessed with that. Thanks to all of you.

[Whiskey's Mom]

Oh that is so sad. I'm sorry. You have been such a great Mommy to her, loving her and caring for yer. And I know you'll shower her with love for however much time she has left. I was thinking of you the other day, wondering how things were going. We are kind of in the same boat with Whiskey. Vet didn't give me time estimates but things are changing and I have to face that. It's so so hard:(

[Squirt's Mom]

I am so sorry to hear this. Create moments you can remember and that she can carry with her on the next portion of her journey. Love her, let her eat what she wants when she wants, talk to her, touch her, listen to her...cherish every moment you have left together. We are here anytime you need to talk.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[buffysmom]

Oh that is so sad. I'm sorry. You have been such a great Mommy to her, loving her and caring for yer. And I know you'll shower her with love for however much time she has left. I was thinking of you the other day, wondering how things were going. We are kind of in the same boat with Whiskey. Vet didn't give me time estimates but things are changing and I have to face that. It's so so hard:(

Thanks so much. I just can't imagine life without her and for now I'm not going to try. Buffy has always been extremely sensitive to when I'm upset or sad. Yesterday after talking to the vet I was crying and my husband stood up and was holding me. Little Buffy got right up and stood by us looking up all worried. I won't add anymore stress to her and will enjoy what time she has left. I'm so sorry Whiskey isn't doing well. They are our babies and it's so hard not being able to talk to them and explain what's going on...maybe that's better tho.

[buffysmom]

I am so sorry to hear this. Create moments you can remember and that she can carry with her on the next portion of her journey. Love her, let her eat what she wants when she wants, talk to her, touch her, listen to her...cherish every moment you have left together. We are here anytime you need to talk.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Thanks Leslie. We are doing just as you suggest and have been except letting her eat everything she wants since she was 10 weeks old. She's a very spoiled girl...lol. I just took her for a little walk, the vet said try it and if she hurts...don't try again. She didn't appear to hurt at all but on the way back her little face on the right kept shaking and the right side of her mouth would pull up. Scared me to death, she has had no signs of anything like that. Seems fine now but wondering if it was the start of a stroke or possibly the sun in her face like we you have to sneeze when looking at the sun? Love this little girl...such a trooper

[Whiskey's Mom]

Thanks so much. I just can't imagine life without her and for now I'm not going to try. Buffy has always been extremely sensitive to when I'm upset or sad. Yesterday after talking to the vet I was crying and my husband stood up and was holding me. Little Buffy got right up and stood by us looking up all worried. I won't add anymore stress to her and will enjoy what time she has left. I'm so sorry Whiskey isn't doing well. They are our babies and it's so hard not being able to talk to them and explain what's going on...maybe that's better tho.
Oh same here. I'm trying not to torture myself thinking about my life without Whiskey either. He is also very sensitive to our moods & emotions. Gets very upset when I cry. So Ive got to learn how to control that. It's not fair to him. Yesterday he had done trembling on his left side also. It was strange but went away quickly. It freaked me out though. Hope little Buffy has tons of good days ahead

[Joan2517]

Lena stopped looking me in the eyes...I know she could see how worried I was. The times our eyes met, I think we both knew. I tried so hard not to let her see, but we knew each other too well.

I remembered after she died, that the ride to the ER that night, she just stared at me. Every time I looked down she was quietly watching me...I think she knew, but I was too shocked that we were on our way again after being there the night before, that I did not pick up on it. I wish I had, I never would have gone home...

[molly muffin]

They absolutely know when we are upset.
However, by living each single day to the very best we can with them, they too will live every single day happy with us. That is sometimes the best we can do along with making sure that all the basis are covered medically which you are already doing. Kudos. It's not an easy place to be. I know it all too well as many of us do, but you can do this for yourself and for Buffy and for your family. We're with you all the way.

[buffysmom]

We lost our precious little Buffy yesterday. My heart is broken. She fought so hard with this disease but apparently got cancer. We think probably stomach cancer. She went downhill so fast. Love you Buffy to the moon and back. You are missed more than you will ever know

[Joan2517]

Oh, I'm so, so sorry for the loss of your sweet Buffy. Many comforting thoughts for you and your family.

[labblab]

Oh, I am so terribly sorry, as well! Thank you so much for returning to tell us what has happened, though. Buffy now joins our other angels on our special memorial thread of honor:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8383

And we will always remain here, eager to offer whatever support to you that we can. So please do feel free to return at any time, now or in the future, in order to share special memories or just to tell us how you're doing.

You'll see that I've moved your posting here, into your original thread about Buffy. And this is where you can always return to talk with us.

Always in loving memory of your precious girl,
Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so, so sorry for the loss of your beloved girl, Buffy, and my heart goes out to you and your family. Please know that we are here for you and always will be.

With Heartfelt Sympathy, Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh I am so so sorry to hear she is gone. :(:(:( I know your heart is broken into a million pieces. You were a great mom to her and she left this life on the wings of your love. Now she will watch over you just as you watched over her.

Our deepest sympathy,
Leslie, Trinket, Sophie, Fox, Bud, and all our angels


Tribute To A Best Friend

Sunlight streams through window pane
unto a spot on the floor....
then I remember,
it's where you used to lie,
but now you are no more.
Our feet walk down a hall of carpet,
and muted echoes sound....
then I remember,
It's where your paws would joyously abound.
A voice is heard along the road,
and up beyond the hill,
then I remember it can't be yours....
your golden voice is still.
But I'll take that vacant spot of floor
and empty muted hall
and lay them with the absent voice
and unused dish along the wall.
I'll wrap these treasured memorials
in a blanket of my love
and keep them for my best friend
until we meet above.

Author Unknown

[Whiskey's Mom]

Oh I'm so so sorry for the loss of your sweet girl. Truly, my heart is breaking for you. You did everything you could to give her a happy life, and she loved you for it. I will be thinking of you.

[DoxieMama]

I saw the thread title change and my heart just fell. I'm so sorry. Thank you for letting us know. Please accept my heartfelt condolences, and know that you will be in my thoughts in the coming days as well.

[judymaggie]

I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet girl. You were a wonderful pet parent and am sure that Buffy knew how hard you worked to give her a great life.

[molly muffin]

Oh I am very sorry to hear that Buffy has passed. :( My heart goes out to you and your family in this awful time.

My sincerest condolences.

[buffysmom]

Thank you all so much for your kind words. We received her ashes yesterday and yes I cried...but I also felt a calmness of sorts that she was home and safe. The last nite of her life is something I want to forget and something I will cherish. Strange isn't it? That night I held my baby telling her to go ahead and go. My husband who adored her either didn't believe or didn't want to believe she was so sick and had gone to bed.

I called the vet and left a message it was time. She wasnt coming into the office until 10. I told her she is in pain and we hadn't given her anything for it because she hadn't eaten the day before. She told me to try, which I did with an antacid and she relaxed and finally slept for 2 hours.

So sorry if this is too much information. I've left a lot out. Anyways, people keep saying it will get better and I'm sure it will. For now...an enormous piece of my heart is missing.

[Joan2517]

It's not too much...we've all been there and understand completely. When I got Lena's ashes back it made it so final...and I'm still crying...

Sending comforting and peaceful thoughts to you....

[buffysmom]

Thank you all so much once again. I am getting better altho I'm still crying at the drop of a hat. I'm ok wit that. I loved Buffy and still do and the hole she left is real. Yesterday when the I got home there was an envelope in the mail from where she was cremated. A nice card with stories, etc. I was doing ok but as I opened it...there was her little footprint on the inside. Well...once again I lost it.

I miss her little white nose always pushing open the bathroom door. I miss how she always pranced out to the living room when I brought my husband something to eat but mostly I miss knowing she is here so I could love on her.

My mom who passed 2 years ago told me I would feel her still in the house. That first day I couldn't at all. My husband did...not me. The next morning I could a little. But that evening, I was walking from the kitchen to the back and it hit me full force...and I have to say...for some reason I was instantly queasy. It passed in seconds...but was real, very real. I haven't felt anything that strong since and it made me wonder if it was her saying a final goodbye.

Anyway...this probably sounds a bit nuts, but you all have been here with love and support at my darkest times in caring for Buffy and I appreciate you all. Thank you so much!

[Joan2517]

It's not nuts...for a few weeks after Lena had died, every once in a while I got a whiff of the lotion that they had put on her before they gave me her sweet little body to take home...just all of a sudden I would catch the odor, not anywhere where she had been...

Our house still seems empty without her, she was a huge presence for such a tiny, little girl.

[molly muffin]

I still go outside and talk to mollys star in the sky. I probably always will.

i know how hard it hits you when you open the cards. I went through that too, just dropped me to my knees crying it was so profound of a sense of loss.

We all understand.

[Joan2517]

Last Halloween, my husband brought her tin of ashes out and put them on the stoop so that she was sitting with me like she always did every Halloween since 2003.

We had them in the kitchen while I made shortbreads for Christmas, her absolute favorite time of year...

I still have days where I just spend the day crying, looking at her pictures and thinking back over our almost 15 years together.

It's snowing today, and she just loved snow days...me working from home, going out to shovel a path for her and Doree in the backyard and a nice fire going with their beds in front of it when we came in...so many memories...