Hi, I'm new and very worried, in fact in panic mode.

[Jazz]

Hi everyone.
My name is Christine and my little dog is called Jazz.
She is a Bishon aged 13 and a bit.

A bit of background.

Up until last Tuesday morning I had an aging, but as far as I was concerned a happy healthy little dog.
About 5am I woke to Jazz having a massive fit. It was the most awful thing I have ever seen despite having been a dog owner for more years than I care to think about.
Hubby and I of course panicked as we didn't know what was going on and rather than leaving the seizure to run its course we tried to revive. I think now we probably prolonged things.
We were at the vet by 8:30 that morning. Bloods were taken. We got a phone call later in the day to say that there were liver issues and they wanted her in for tests a few days later. At 5pm Jazz had her second seizure. I administered anal diazapalm and she came round much quicker. Back to vet and tablet diazapalm was given and a cannula was fitted in case we needed emergency care during the night. As you can imagine we didn't sleep much but Jazz did.
Into the vet the next day and tests for Cushings were done. No adrenal tumours but tested positive for Cushings. A pituitary tumour is suspected. A liver biopsy was mentioned as was a brain scan.
Well hubby and I have had time to think and have decided not to put our lovely girl through anymore tests. We sort of think....what's the point. If they find a brain tumour then it's not operable. If the find a liver tumour then the same applies. They did find a liver lesion in the scan.
So....we have kind of decided to just go with things and try and support Jazz in the most natural way we can.
No more kibble, just natural foods. Milk Thistle tablets on order. Dandelion drops been given.
We never really noticed Cushings symptoms. She doesn't drink much, she is active and bouncy and can jump just as high as ever. She does have a voracious appetite and begs a lot but she always did this.
It's the seizures that concern me. I'm now watching every move and seeing things that are probably not there. She is my third baby. My other two have been to uni and flown the nest. This is my most special girl and I will do absolutely anything I can to help her....but there is a line in the sand for me.
Just because I can intervene with drugs doesn't mean it's the best thing for Jazz at her advanced age.
Sorry everyone for the very long post.
I guess my question is....well what do I do.
If I can get her liver into better shape then will the seizures abait.
Any tips on a natural diet. I'm feeding rice, chicken, carrots. Eggs and porridge at the moment. She loves it because she will eat anything.
I'm so glad I found this forum with knowledgable people that might point me in the right direction and hold my hand as I embark on the final journey with my very special and much loved little girl.
Sorry for the very long first post.

Thank you

[DoxieMama]

Hi Christine and welcome to you and Jazz! I am sorry to hear of the seizures she is having, and even more apologetic that I don't have any answers for you. Would you happen to have copies of the test results that were done on her? If so, please post the abnormalities, as well as the results of the tests that were used to diagnose Cushing's. Those numbers are always helpful for the admins and other knowledgeable folks around here to give you the best possible support.

Long posts are often very good, as the more information you can provide, the better support we can give you. Hang in there...

Hugs, Shana

[labblab]

Hello Christine, and welcome to you and Jazz from me, too. I am very sorry for the problems that have brought you to us, but also very glad that you've found us.

It sounds as though there are several issues to be unraveled here and in honesty, I'm not yet really sure why Cushing's is being suspected unless it's just on the basis of elevated liver enzymes. The two diagnostic blood tests for Cushing's are both subject to returning "false positives" when a dog is under stress or suffering from other nonadrenal illnesses (the LDDS even more so than the ACTH). So if the blood test was performed in the midst of what sounds like hospitalization associated with grand mal seizuring and the stress of treatment and other testing, I'm not sure that I'd trust the result to be accurate. Aside from a hearty appetite, has Jazz exhibited any other outward symptoms that are consistent with Cushing's?

When you say that an adrenal tumor has been ruled out, is that on the basis of an ultrasound? If so, did the adrenals look to be of normal size and appearance? The reason why I ask is because the majority of dogs suffering from pituitary tumors will exhibit enlargement of both adrenal glands. It is not always the case, but if Jazz's adrenals both looked totally normal on ultrasound, that is another piece of things that throws a bit of question on the Cushing's diagnosis. So returning full circle, if the only known abnormalities are elevated liver readings, I don't think you have enough info yet to rule out a primary liver problem as being the genuine issue.

Setting all of that aside, let's turn to the seizures. As you probably already know, there can be a number of causes including brain tumors and certain types of liver abnormalities. Low thyroid function can also trigger seizures. I have a nearly 12-year-old nonCushing's Lab girl who started having grand mal seizures of unknown origin at age 6 (and to this day, we still do not know what prompted them). We did not want to rush into medication, either, but within two months her seizures increased in frequency and we decided that further worsening would be dangerous to her and intolerable for us to witness. We started her on phenobarbital, and we have been extremely fortunate because she has suffered minimal side effects and has now been 100% seizure free since that time. There are also a number of newer neurological medications that are also being used to treat canine seizures as well as humans.

Given an apparent lack of corroborating symptoms, I do understand your hesitation re: leaping into Cushing's treatment at this time. However, depending upon whether or not the seizures continue, you may decide that anticonvulsant therapy will be important for Jazz's health and quality of life. Obviously, the ideal scenario is to uncover the cause. But barring that, you may still want to try your best to keep the seizures under control.

Again, we're so glad you've found us. And as Shana has said, any actual test results that you can provide will be very helpful as we try to chart the best path forward for Jazz.

Marianne

[judymaggie]

Welcome Christine & Jazz! I am sorry for the reasons that have led you here but, hopefully, we can help you get through this scary time and ease your mind a bit.

My last beagle, Maggie (also a Cush pup), had seizures and I found a great website:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

I learned a huge amount about seizures from this website. It is very important to keep a log of each seizure, including, what was your dog doing when the seizure started, how long it lasted, etc. Seizures are so traumatic for us dog parents that it is impossible to remember details later on. There are also some great tips about what to do during the seizure and immediately after.

There is an excellent section on nutrition and you may find some helpful suggestions there.

I think it makes total sense to focus on the seizures and how to help Jazz in that regard rather than pursue further diagnostic tests and treatment with regard to Cushing's.

Hang in there!

[Jazz]

Thank you all for your replies.
I think I need to ask a lot more questions of my vet. Of course at the time it's just pure panic and you don't really take much in.
The vet did want to do another Cushings test. Belt and braces was how she described it. As Jaz becomes very distressed we decided against the second test as we had already decided that she had enough, for now anyway.
I will ask for a print out of her readings but from what I remember it was more the slight rise in liver readings that was the main concern along with the small lesion discovered during her scan.
Up until her seizure she was just a normal elderly Bichon. No excessive thirst, no excessive peeing. Her coat is thick and reasonably healthy. She does have some skin tags and a few little wart things. All typical of white coated dogs. She weighs 5.6kg so is not over weight for her breed. She is cheeky yappy and loving. It took her a few days to bounce back but she had had a rough couple of days. I think that's why the big seizure she had was such a terrible shock.
I will get her test results and report back and see if anyone can shed light on them.
I feel as if my vet, although caring, is a bit test happy and forgets that she is dealing with a very old lady.
This is a learning curve and I have a lot to try and take in.
I'm beginning to question just exactly what we have been told.
I will post her test results when I get them.
Thank you for the link re the epilepsy. My vet suggested at her age it was more likely to be a brain tumour on the pituitary gland. We can't do much about that except support her the best way we can.
It's a very nervy time and we are very wary of leaving her alone.

Thank you all again for taking the time to reply.

Christine

[spdd]

Hi and welcome to the forum. My dog had seizures his whole life on and off, and was diagnosed with Cushings, however it's a long story and we aren't sure if he ever had Cushings. I thought I'd bring this up though, one day the dog was making a racket on my bed and I ran into the room in a panic. I had never seen anything like it, and was completely beside myself. I couldn't lug him to the car to take him to emergency vet, so called a hotline that was available. They told me to check the gums etc., but to make a long story short, I was at the vets first thing. Well he was fine by that time, and just as I put him in the van it happened again. The vet rushed out, and of course it was over by the time she got there. I did some research, and it turned out it was what they call a reverse sneeze. If you youtube it, you can see what I mean. There was not too much difference in his seizures and this reverse sneeze, other then he was quieter when having a seizure, and his teeth chattered when seizing as well. I don't know what is going on exactly with your baby, but I just thought I'd mention it. My vet wanted to do all kinds of testing, but I figured it out on my own...... worth mentioning to you.

[Jazz]

Thanks again. It was a full grand mal seizure. The vet asked me to video it if it happened again so she could see for herself. I did and she said it was a classic fit. Not quite sure how I managed it though.

I asked the vet this morning for a copy of the test results and this is what I got.

BILE ACID STIM. TEST.
BIOCHEMISTRY
Test result Alert Units Reference range.
Total Bilirubin 1.3 mol/L 0.1 -4.2

BILE ACID STIMULATION TEST
Bile Acids (fasting) 4.0 umol/L 0.1 -5.0
Bile Acids (post fatty 30.8 High umol/L 0.1 - 10.0 meal )

Her comments were.
While the post prandial bile acids are mildly increased, this result is not suggestive of significant liver functional impairment.

This is all really double Dutch to me. The vet was busy this morning so there was no opportunity to discuss things further.
This leaves me now wondering what on earth caused the two seizures. Doesn't now sound like Cushings and neither does it seem her liver is unable to cope with toxins in her body. Perhaps it's a tumour in her brain.
We did speak to the vetinary nurse. He has encouraged us to keep a seizure diary and to return if we need to with a view to treating her with anti seizure medication to control things.
Can I please ask. How do others cope with a dog with seizures with regards to leaving them alone. We never leave Jazz for very long but if one of us always stays with her hubby and I will never go out together at all. Also we are booked to go on holiday in five weeks time. Not a very long car journey, about three hours. It's a quiet self catering cottage so it will be peaceful. Jazz has always been a happy holiday maker. Am I wrong in taking her. I'm thinking of contacting a vet in the town we are going to to explain and find out what their emergency care services are like. Any opinions or tips on travelling with her would be appreciated.

Thank you
Christine.

[judymaggie]

Christine -- Kudos for having the presence of mind to take a video while Jazz was having a seizure. I'm sure that you just wanted to hold her instead of the camera!

I was working full time when my Maggie started having seizures. It was very stressful for me and I'm sure I was not 100% at the office. There was no pattern to her seizures so it was impossible for me to even ask someone to come in and check on her when I was at work. Maggie's seizures started out as tonic seizures and, over a period of months, progressed to grand mal and then into cluster seizures. I honestly did not leave her other than to go to work and did not take any trips. I knew that her time with me was limited. She had been ill for quite a while.

You are in a different position with Jazz. I think that taking your holiday with Jazz is reasonable but I think your idea to identify resources in the area is excellent and, in particular, a 24 hour emergency hospital. I would suggest you discuss with your vet a plan as to how to handle future seizures. The website I gave you has good suggestions in that regard.

You may never know why Jazz is having seizures. That can be frustrating but the important thing is to learn how to deal with them.

Take care!

[Help4Bailey]

Hi Christine,

I am glad you found this forum and hope that those that are knowledgable about dogs with seizures can help you. My 10 year old girl, Bailey, was diagnosed in February with Hypothyroidism and Cushing's but has not had any seizures.

I am responding with regards to your comment about natural foods and no more kibble.

I have changed Bailey to homemade food of chicken, turkey, egg, veggies, and canned salmon. Additionally she receives bone meal and necessary minerals that are purchased and ground into fine powder.

The vet that wrote the book Dr. Becker's Real Food For Healthy Dogs & Cats (Fourth Edition) is what I am following. Dr. Becker is actually a proponent of feeding a raw diet but I am cooking the food per my vet due to Cushing's. The book gives you recipes with appropriate amounts of meat/protein, veggie, bone meal, and minerals based on the dogs weight and portion size. I have found it to be pretty easy. I was able to find all the appropriate vitamins/minerals that were recommended in the book. I slowly introduced each different protein, veggie, and even slowly introduced the bone meal and vitamins/minerals.

It sounds like you have already started Jazz down the path of homemade food which is pretty close to what I am feeding Bailey.
Bailey will also eat anything so I haven't had any problems in switching her from kibble to homemade food. I do have a VitaMix blender that has been useful to blend all the veggies to better help digestion and for grinding up the minerals into powder. I additionally have a gram/oz scale for measuring some ingredients as it proved to be more accurate.

Hope this has been helpful if you decide to continue with homemade food.

All the best to you and Jazz,
Lynette

[Jazz]

Thank you both for your posts.

As I was filming Jazz hubby was comforting her otherwise I wouldn't have been able to video it. After the vet had seen it it was deleted. Not a memory that I want to have.
It's so hard to leave her alone but I guess at some point it will happen. Just not quite yet.
Hubby is a lot calmer about the whole thing now which is good....me I'm still anxious and watching her every move which is not doing either of us any good.
The transition onto home cooked foods has been fine except for a few bowel changes which is to be expected. She thinks it's her birthday as she loves "human" food.
As I'm now questioning the initial thoughts re Cushings I'm not really sure I will be able to contribute to this lovely forum in any meaningful way.
Thank you everyone for your kind words and reassurance.

Christine and Jazz.

[molly muffin]

Hi Christine and Jazz. I can certainly understand your panic. Molly only once had a seizure, or something and it was horrible. By the time we got her to the vet she was fine (15 minutes maybe?) We went to emergency. For my dog there is a nerve that can be pinched if they pull at a collar leash. She wasn't pulling when it happened, just sitting but that is what they thought it was. They said over all, that if it never happens again, then we are lucky, if it does record them and if they need to they would put her on seizure medication. It never happened again and that has been just years and years ago now. Way before we came into the cushings world and she has only had a harness from that day forward.
So I totally get how panicky that would be to see. I'd definitely take her on holiday with you, I'm sure she will love it and that is a great idea about sourcing out the vets and emergency care in the area. Better to know than be stuck if you need someone. (which hopefully you won't)
It sure doesn't really sound like cushings though does it. I'm thinking seizure of unknown source which is way too common as Marianne can attest to.

[Joan2517]

Finding a vet in the area is a good idea. I was going to take Lena to PA for a weekend (which never happened), but I found a vet right in Hawley who was very knowledgeable about Cushing's. I called and spoke with them and they assured me that if anything happened and I needed help that I could bring her to them. It's one less thing to worry about.