Whiskey has joined our beloved at The Bridge [Archive] - Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums

lulusmom

04-25-2016, 11:16 PM

Hi and welcome to you and Whiskey.

You were very wise to question your vet about his highly unorthodox dosing regimen because it is not appropriate. I can tell you for a fact that there is no off label reasons to deviate from the dosing protocol recommended by Dechra, the manufacturer. Vetoryl has a very short half life, meaning it's effectiveness starts to wane within 8 to 10 hours of dosing and for that reason you never dose a dog less than once a day. It is very odd that you are not seeing any different in Whiskey on those days he has not been dosed because by the time he gets his next dose, cortisol should have been close to or at pre-treatment levels. Usually symptoms rebound well before then.

Because cushing's is one of the most misdiagnosed canine diseases, the fact that your vet seems to be not well versed in the drug he has prescribed raises my suspicion as to his experience with diagnosing canine cushing's. My own gp vet was unbelievably ignorant of anything that had to do with the canine endocrine system. He had treated my dogs for years and years and I trusted him implicitly. The price for that blind faith and loyalty was paid by my precious pup. I thought I was an anomaly but I have lots of company here who had a similar experience. We've definitely had other new members whose vets also prescribed every other day dosing and I believe we've been successful most the time in providing helpful resources to help educate those vets who are not following proper protocol. I have provided a link below to some really good reading material on Vetoryl as well as some general information on the disease and the diagnostic process. This information can be found on Dechra's website. You may want to share this information with your vet. Dechra is the manufacture of Vetoryl and we pet owners and our vets in the states have the good fortune to be able to call them for guidance. I highly recommend that you either call them to ask their opinion of every other day dosing or ask your vet to call them. It's been a long a time since I called them but I think the phone number is still good. It's (913) 327-0015. One of our administrators, Marianne, has spoken to them much more than I so hopefully she can confirm that number for us.

It would be very helpful if you could round up all of the test results that were done by your vet to confirm the cushing's diagnosis and post them here. With respect to the blood chemistry and cbc, we need only see the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. Dogs with cushing's lose their ability to concentrate their urine so they pee enormous amounts of dilute urine and they drink voluminous amounts of water to stay hydrated. Most cushdogs cannot hold their pee and are no longer housebroken. They do not just dribble, they pee frequently and a lot. Dribbling is a lot more common in a urinary tract infection or stones. Was Whiskey's problem limited to dribbling or did he pee huge amounts and frequently?

Because cushdogs have dilute urine, they are at high risk for urinary infection so that is why a the aforementioned tests should have been done to check the urine specific gravity (USG) which is almost always low in a cushdog. A lot of white cells are not picked up in dilute urine in a standard urinalysis so a culture should be done which allows the lab to identify the actual strain of bacteria, if any are present. The vet can then prescribe an appropriate antibiotic. Can you share the results of any urinalysis that was done as well?

Can you please post the results of the first acth stimulation test and can you tell us if your vet validated the acth stimulation test by way of an abdominal ultrasound, HDDS or endogenous acth test? All three not only validate the acth stim test, they differentiate between pituitary and adrenal dependent disease. Did your vet tell you which form of cushing's Whiskey has?

When using the acth stimulation test for monitoring treatment, the test must be done within 4 to 6 hours of dosing with a meal. Was that protocol followed for all of the acth stimulation test results you posted?

http://www.dechrace.com/pdfs/vetoryl/VETORYLTechnicalBrochure.pdf
http://www.dechrace.com/pdfs/vetoryl/VetorylClientBrochure5mg.pdf

This is a good summary of Vetoryl (trilostane) by Dr. Ellen Behrend, a recognized endocrine expert and frequent contributor to Dechra Continuing Education program offered by Dechra. Dr. Behrend conducted clinical trials on trilostane many years before Vetoryl was approved by the FDA.
http://www.plumbstherapeuticsbrief.com/article/trilostane

This is an excellent piece by Dr. Mark Peterson, a renown endocrinologist and frequent contributor to Dechra's Continuing Education program. Dr. Peterson's work is highly published and he has authored or co-authored chapters in many veterinary textbooks over the years. Dr Peterson maintains an informational site for vets and pet owners to learn and ask questions. I have asked him many, many questions and you can do the same. Feel free to ask him if he would recommend every other day dosing. You will see lots of questions being asked by pet owners at the bottom of the article. This particular piece is entitled Low-Dose, Twice-Daily Trilostane Treatment for Dogs with Hyperadrenocorticism
http://www.endocrinevet.info/2012/12/low-dose-twice-daily-trilostane.html

Wow, I see I have written a novel here and may have put you to sleep before I finished. Brevity has never been my strong suit. :o I look forward to hear a lot more about Whiskey's journey.

Glynda

labblab

04-26-2016, 08:31 AM

Hello and welcome to you and Whiskey from me, too! As you can tell, I am a retriever-lover, as well, and I can easily imagine how grateful you are to still have Whiskey by your side at age 13. He looks like such a sweet and handsome boy!

Glynda has already shared some very helpful info, including links to those Dechra publications. In particular, I want to emphasize their "Treatment and Monitoring of Hyperadrenocorticism" flowchart. If you go to this link and scroll down, you'll see the flowchart.

http://www.dechrace.com/pdfs/vetoryl/VETORYLTechnicalBrochure.pdf

Because in addition to the every-other day dosing protocol, I'm concerned about your vet's overall dosing decisions. First of all, I do want to say that, on occasion, I've seen vets recommend every-other day dosing. But typically this is only when patients live in a country where trilostane is only available as brandname Vetoryl in limited dosage strengths. Since the capsules should not be opened and divided, if there is no other option, I've sometimes seen vets recommend that the patient use the lowest dose capsule that is available on a rotating day basis. But here in the U.S., Vetoryl is available in 5, 10, 30, 60, and 120 mg. capsules. Additionally, veterinary compounders can customize literally any other trilostane dose that is necessary. So there is no reason why a suitable daily dose cannot be obtained.

As an aside, I am wondering whether Whiskey's monitoring ACTH tests have all been performed on days when he has received his Vetoryl, or on an "off" day. Because that's another problem with dosing that is not daily: on days when Vetoryl is given, the cortisol will be much lower than on days when it is not.

Anyway, turning to Whiskey's actual monitoring tests, these are the results you have given us:

These are the results of Whiskeys ACTH tests. SNAPshot Dx. I dont have the results of the first test, but he was only on 60 mg for a short time, then switched to 30 mg every day until the test on 10/19.
10/19/15 baseline 2.8 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 2.9 ug/dL
12/7/15 baseline 1.6 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 7.4 ug/dL-after this we went from 30 mg every day to 2 days on, 1 day off
4/4/16 baseline 1.0 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 1.3 ug/dL-after this we went to 30 mg every other day.

I am wondering if instead of what you have written, you meant to say this instead:

These are the results of Whiskeys ACTH tests. SNAPshot Dx. I dont have the results of the first test, but he was only on 60 mg for a short time, then switched to 30 mg every day until the test on 10/19.

10/19/15 baseline 2.8 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 2.9 ug/dL - -after this we went from 30 mg every day to 2 days on, 1 day off

12/7/15 baseline 1.6 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 7.4 ug/dL-after this we went to 30 mg every other day.

4/4/16 baseline 1.0 ug/dL, 2 hrs later 1.3 ug/dL
Otherwise, the dosing changes do not make any sense. For instance, it is reasonable that you might have wanted to decrease the dose a bit after a result of 2.8/2.9. And after the result of 1.6/7.4, you might have wanted to increase the dose, but you would not have wanted to decrease it. So I am hoping that perhaps you might have just mistyped, yourself.

However, the thing that is of most concern to me is that the most recent result of 1.0/1.3 is too low, and Whiskey's trilostane ought to be discontinued altogether, at least temporarily. As long as he is behaving normally, it may be OK to resume dosing after a week or so, but at a lower dose. However, if he is exhibiting any symptoms at all of overdose, then you would not resume the medication until you were certain that his cortisol had rebounded sufficiently.

Please do take a careful look at that "Treatment and Monitoring" flowchart, because you will see the warning about continuing treatment with an ACTH result as low as Whiskey's was on April 4. And once you've had time to look through that brochure, please do get back to us with any additional questions, OK?

Marianne

Whiskey's Mom

04-26-2016, 12:41 PM

Thank you for your responses. I'm totally devastated that I could be hurting my best friend. I had no idea. I have a call in to Dechra and my vet. Unfortunately I'm at work holding back tears and can't verify the numbers yet. I will let you know what I find out. Thank you for caring

labblab

04-26-2016, 03:03 PM

Oh, I'm so sorry for you to be feeling so upset, and especially while at work (that's always the worst!! :o). I am assuming that Whiskey is outwardly still doing well, or you would have reported otherwise. So he doesn't appear to be in a crisis right now and I am confident you will be able to get things sorted out quickly. I am glad you will be talking both with Dechra and your vet, because perhaps there is some sort of strategy here of which we are unaware.

So take a deep breath, and keep us updated, OK? I feel certain everything will be worked out.

Marianne

Whiskey's Mom

04-26-2016, 07:52 PM

OK. So I talked to the wonderful people at Dechra today, twice actually because I had a second question. They told me that they don't give dosing advice, they leave that to the Vet, because every dog is different. They said there are vets who dose differently from the traditional protocols, and they usually have a specific reason. My vet so far has done all the tests at the appropriate times. They said the vet actually sees and examines the dog, and needs to do whats best for that particular dog.
Then I spoke to my vet, she said her reasons for dosing as she does is due to how Whiskey is responding to the treatments, and she has dosed in this way successfully before. He is eating, drinking & peeing normally, and pretty much acting like himself whether it is an on or off day(we would notice!). She is also trying to avoid arrythmias, clots and the enlarged liver & spleen associated with untreated Cushings that she has seen in the past. She said she didnt want to "rock the boat" by underdosing since he is doing so well and I can't really argue with that. Perhaps after his next ACTH it will need to be changed again, which the people at Dechra told me does happen. Also, I should add that his ACTH stim tests are always done on the "on" day, 4 & 6 hours after taking his Vetoryl. I know the last numbers were low, but honestly, he wasnt acting different at all. He loves going to the vet and was his typical social self. Believe me, I don't take your kind advice lightly, and it is much, much appreciated. I will be watching him very closely for any changes. Again, thank you all so much for caring about our boy!:)

labblab

04-27-2016, 08:17 AM

Thank you so much for updating us re: your conversations. Based on our accumulated experiences here throughout the years, I still must tell you that your vet's dosing approach falls outside of the usual, and I remain uncertain as to why it is preferable to administering a smaller dose on a daily basis. But having said that, at Whiskey's age, I know you are grateful for any regimen that keeps him happy and outwardly healthy. So that part is very good. :)

Here's one persisting question, however. Did you tell the folks at Dechra what his exact ACTH results were on this most recent test? Results of 1.0/1.3 are uniformly considered to be too low by every clinician and treatment guideline with which I'm familiar. Perhaps Whiskey is "getting away" with a result that low because his cortisol is rising somewhat on the "off" days. But I remain very concerned about those values, and I encourage you to consult with Dechra specifically about those numbers if they were not explicitly discussed yesterday.

Marianne

lulusmom

04-27-2016, 12:38 PM

I join with Marianne in her concern with your vet's unusual dosing regimen and Whiskey's last acth stim test result that is quite low.
When speaking to pet owners, Dechra is very careful not to step on the toes of veterinarians but I believe they may have gone too far with their political correctness and have done you a disservice. Nowhere in their published dosing protocol or treatment monitoring protocol that is currently included in the packaging insert and was submitted to the FDA for approval, does it state that a pet owner should disregard these published protocols and defer to their vet's recommendations.

It is well known that trilostane's half life is very short and often does not effectively control cortisol long enough over the course 24 hours to see a resolution of symptoms in a good number of dogs. These dogs require twice daily dosing. Therefore, unless a dog has some level of adrenal necrosis from the effects of trilostane or a dog simply does not have cushing's, it is highly unlikely that one dose every other day would effectively control cortisol for a full 48 hours. Could your Whiskey be an anomaly? Yes, I suppose it's possible but unless your vet has done an acth stimulation test on the day of off dosing, there is no way to determine if cortisol levels are within an acceptable range that would mitigate the adverse effects of high cortisol on internal organs. Has your vet done an acth stim test on the off dose day since starting the alternate day dosing?

I am an insurance executive by trade so I am in no way, shape or form a veterinary professional or pharmaceutical expert. I am simply someone who has shared life with multiple cushdogs, have done obsessive research for over 10 years and have followed more case studies on support groups than most gp vets will see in a lifetime. Marianne has even more years than I and while she's not a veterinary professional either, I don't believe there are too many gp vets who possess her knowledge of Vetoryl (trilostane) nor do I believe any layperson or gp vet has ever had as many conversation with Dechra.

Please know that it is not my intention to upset you with my continued concerns nor should those concerns be interpreted as maligning your vet. We do not tolerate vet bashing on this forum but some of us find it difficult to defer to a vet's approach when it is in total conflict with safe and effective protocols. We are here for our precious canine companions and with cushing's being one of the most misdiagnosed diseases requiring very serious drugs, we will always do our best to educate our members....and we will always be looking over a vet's shoulder. Your help in providing us with more information about Whiskey's diagnostic and treatment process can a go a long way in helping us understand your vet's approach to things. More information will also allow us to do a better job of explaining any concerns and providing appropriate reference material that we think may help you in advocating for Whiskey.

Glynda

Whiskey's Mom

04-27-2016, 09:42 PM

I have been obsessing over Whiskey's ACTH numbers and am very touched by everyone's concern for him. I called Dechra again today, and spoke to a 3rd person who agreed that his low numbers were a concern, but it's not good to make a broad statement about Cushings, since it is a serious disease with very individualized cases. And his vet is the one who actually sees him.
There was also something in the Dr. Petersons endocrine vet website you sent me a link to that I thought was relevant: "the goal of Owner satisfaction in dog's improvement, that the owner's evaluation of the clinical response is key". So maybe we are partly to blame for his dosages since he has improved since starting Vetoryl and continues to do well. I wont quote the whole article, but I did also see the part about stopping the drug with a value under 2.0. Ugh:( I do know at times in human medicine you "treat the patient, not the numbers" but I dont know if that applies here.
After talking to the vet and thinking and re-thinking constantly, I don't really understand why a day should be skipped either. Our family thought it would make more sense to perhaps give him a lower dose every day rather than 30 mg every other day, or something like that. I will be speaking with the vet tomorrow. Hopefully we can get this sorted out, it's making me crazy. I should add that Whiskey is still doing well, his usual cheerful self, I just hope he feels ok. I think he's getting a little tired of his Mom staring at him & inspecting him:p

labblab

04-27-2016, 10:22 PM

If Whiskey is outwardly doing well, I surely understand your conflict about making changes. And honestly, for a 13-year-old retriever, I do believe that daily quality of life is a more important treatment determinant than is halting slow long-term damage associated with uncontrolled Cushing's. So that's why I sometimes don't even encourage treatment at all for senior dogs who suffer only mild overt symptoms, and I'm guessing that's where your own conflict over rocking the boat may come in.

I do definitely believe that daily dosing is generally preferable in order to keep cortisol levels lowered more consistently throughout a 24-hour time period. But even if your vet's dosing regimen is unorthodox, do you want to shift Whiskey right now, when he seems to be doing well? I understand why that may feel like a hard call. But with ACTH results that low, though, perhaps you might try giving him a brief break and then shifting to something like 10 mg. every morning instead of the 30 mg. every other day? If only we had a crystal ball to guide us...:o

Anyway, I do think it's important to talk over these most recent low results further with your vet. I know you're in turmoil right now, so good for you for being willing to pursue this further for Whiskey's sake. Whatever you decide, we'll be anxious to know how he's doing.

Marianne

Whiskey's Mom

04-30-2016, 12:49 AM

Hi
Whiskey is still doing well. I spoke to my vet about the dosing schedule again. She understood my concerns and to give me peace of mind she had me bring Whiskey in for an electrolyte blood test, which was perfect so we are keeping him at the 30mg every other day dose since it's working for him. We agreed that there's no reason to change anything or do another stim test at this time. Thanks again for everyone's advice!

Whiskey's Mom

05-01-2016, 08:00 PM

Has anyone noticed a change in their dogs food preferences since starting Vetoryl? Whiskey ate the same dry dog food without hesitation his whole life and soon after his diagnosis is seems like his taste has changed. We tried several different brands of dry food then switched to canned, which he rarely finishes. We have tried so many combinations and garnishes and it's been really frustrating. He is definitely hungry, we have various healthy dog treats for him and he gets a good amount of healthy human food too. Somehow he manages to pick through the dog food to eat the good stuff. :p If I would skip dog food completely I know he would empty his bowl,and some days I do that. His weight has been steady at 68 lbs. Is it wrong not to feed him any dog food?

Joan2517

05-01-2016, 09:06 PM

I did...Lena always loved her kibble, but after we started the Vetoryl, she wouldn't eat it anymore, so I started giving her some canned food mixed with it. She also wouldn't chew on the greenei's which she always loved. I thought it was weird since she always loved them. That is one of the things I miss the most, listening to her push all the kibble around in the dish before she picked the pieces she wanted and then happily running to the bed and eating them there. The Vetoryl does something to their appetite, which is not one of the side effects listed.

Whiskey's Mom

05-02-2016, 12:13 AM

Thanks Joan. It's so strange to have him turn his nose up at certain foods when he used to eat literally everything since he was a puppy. I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet little Lena. My heart is breaking for you. I just can't imagine my life without Whiskey. He's the one and only dog I've ever had and he's been by our side through so much. Such a sweet and loving presence, there are no words

Joan2517

05-02-2016, 07:59 AM

Thank you. I miss her terribly. Even though we had 3 other dogs (now 4), she was, and always will be, my baby.

Whiskey sounds like a sweetheart...Lena got tired of me staring at her all the time, too!

labblab

05-02-2016, 08:08 AM

For most dogs, trilostane treatment does not result in aversion to their usual food -- it just decreases their ravenous appetite. We have had some dogs who have become much pickier as their cortisol lowers, however.

The tricky part is that loss of appetite can be a signal that cortisol levels are dropping too low. In Whiskey's case, that is a genuine concern for me since his most recent ACTH is indeed too low according to all published guidelines with which I am familiar.

You had said earlier that Whiskey is doing great, but if you are having to tempt him to eat, then that is an issue. It may not be a serious issue -- as I say, some other folks have reported this type of problem and it has not advanced to anything more sinister. But it is definitely something to be wary about. And if you are going to shift to home-cooking, I'd encourage you to seek some professional dietary advice in order to make sure that all of Whiskey's nutritional needs are met. You may need to add in some supplements of which you are currently unaware.

I just feel compelled to repeat once again, though, that I believe his cortisol is currently running too low per that most recent ACTH test and that remains a worry to me. Now that you've seen how easily approachable the folks at Dechra are, I really hope you will encourage your vet to call them herself in order to discuss Whiskey's original diagnostics and treatment. Perhaps they can jointly decide whether there is anything unique about Whiskey's situation that justifies the need for the unconventional dosing, and they can also discuss these low ACTH results.

Marianne

Whiskey's Mom

05-02-2016, 01:24 PM

Thanks Joan & Marianne. I wouldn't say he has a loss of appetite. It's more of an aversion to certain foods and wanting to share our meals instead of his boring dog food. For example when he was a puppy we used to let him lick butter wrappers while saying the word "kisses" so he would learn to lick instead of nip the kids. I know crazy right? But it worked and since then he could hear the butter being opened from anywhere in the house! Now he turns away from it. Also bread and toast which he loved don't appeal anymore either. Today he ate his dog food for breakfast no problem and demanded extra treats at lunch time. I've been keeping a log of when he's fussy vs. Vetoryl dosage and there's no pattern. Marianne do you think it was pointless to have his electrolytes tested last week? That was my vets suggestion. I do truly appreciate your concern and I don't want to make any changes this week because I'm working longer hours and won't have as much time to observe him. My husband will be with him more and he thinks I'm over reacting because the dog is doing well.

Whiskey's Mom

05-02-2016, 01:30 PM

I did discuss a home made diet and the use of supplements with my vet and she also gave me links to vets that plan custom dog diets and also some recipes. I really can't afford it if I want to continue laser, Vetoryl and ACTH tests. So I'm still trying different flavor combos for him. Thanks !

labblab

05-03-2016, 08:43 AM

Marianne do you think it was pointless to have his electrolytes tested last week? That was my vets suggestion.
No, I don't think it was pointless, because there is the potential for two different types of issues for dogs whose adrenal function is being oversuppressed by trilostane. The first is low cortisol, which is what we've already talked about. The second is the possibility that aldosterone, another adrenal hormone, is being oversuppressed. If this occurs, the ratio of sodium and potassium can become unbalanced in the body. So any time oversuppression is suspected, it is best to check electrolytes as well as cortisol. If cortisol is too low and a dog is unwell, supplemental steroid such as prednisone is given as a "rescue" remedy. If aldosterone is too low and electrolytes are unbalanced, a different class of steroidal supplement is given.

It is important to monitor both cortisol and electrolytes when using trilostane, because one or the other of these issues can occur, as well as both simultaneously. So it's good that your vet did check Whiskey's electrolytes, and it's good if they were OK. However, that doesn't change the fact that Whiskey's recently tested cortisol level was too low per accepted protocol, and I do not understand why that is not a source of concern for your vet. Here's a relevant quote from Dechra's U.S. Product Insert for Vetoryl:

If the ACTH stimulation test is < 1.45 μg/dL (< 40 nmol/L) and/or if electrolyte imbalances characteristic of hypoadrenocorticism (hyperkalemia and hyponatremia) are found, VETORYL Capsules should be temporarily discontinued until recurrence of clinical signs consistent with hyperadrenocorticism and ACTH stimulation test results return to normal (1.45-9.1 μg/dL or 40-250 nmol/L). VETORYL Capsules may then be re-introduced at a lower dose.

Marianne

labblab

05-03-2016, 10:19 AM

Just wanted to add that your vet may be assuming that if Whiskey's electrolytes are within normal range, the low cortisol should not be a worry. And perhaps with naturally-occuring Addison's Disease, the combo of normal electrolytes and low cortisol is less common. But we have seen multiple cases here of dogs taking Cushing's meds for whom their cortisol production was driven too low but the electrolytes remained normal. Sometimes the cortisol suppression has remained a permanent condition, and the dogs have needed to take daily supplemental prednisone from that point onward. That's why we don't take low cortisol levels lightly here.

Marianne

molly muffin

05-03-2016, 06:37 PM

hmm, normally if the post cortisol goes under 1.45ug then you stop medication, wait for symptoms to come back and then start dosage at a lower rate.
I personally don't feel comfortable being under 2.0ug for a post number, as I like a safety net if you can call it that.

Based on the life span of trilostane in the body, I wonder if he isn't going super low on the days of medication and then bouncing upwards on the days that he doesn't get medicated?

If money weren't a factor (and that is only in some weird perfect world that none of us live in) then I'd do a test on a day he isn't getting medication just to see what his body is actually doing.

I'd think that if he is going up and down like that (and it is Only a curiousity that I have) then that would be a concern for me. Consider that the ACTH test is given at 4 - 6 hours after the medication is given with food. This is considered to be where they will be at their lower end of cortisol throughout the day, after that it begins to go up. (some vets test at 2 - 3 as that is the very lowest. I do my first draw (pre) at 4.5 hours) So, it would make sense that he is going up continuously throughout that time.
A dog with diabetes for instance, Must be given a split dose of medication so am and pm, to make sure that their cortisol levels remain leveled out through out the entire day, allowing for better control of the insulin.

This is all just information for you to have and consider.

Whiskey's Mom

05-03-2016, 11:35 PM

Thanks for all the info. Believe me this is pretty much all I think about these days. The low numbers bother me too and the dosing schedule makes me wonder if he's on a roller coaster with how he feels. If only he could talk! Anyway we are picking up a lower dose(daily) of Vetoryl tomorrow at the vet so I hope and pray he does well on it. I'm a nervous wreck! Wish I could just stay home with him every day...

molly muffin

05-04-2016, 09:55 PM

What lower dose did you decide on? 10mg?

Whiskey's Mom

05-04-2016, 10:45 PM

Yes it's 10mg once a day and repeat ACTH stim in 2 weeks unless there's a problem. Hope he's ok on this dose. I'm nervous.

labblab

05-05-2016, 04:24 PM

If you are switching to once daily dosing, I think 10 mg. seems like a very reasonable place to start. I understand why you are feeling anxious, but I hope everything will go well. Definitely keep us updated!

Marianne

molly muffin

05-06-2016, 03:18 PM

Let us know how whiskey seems to be doing on a daily dose.

Whiskey's Mom

05-09-2016, 07:51 AM

Hi & hope everyone had a Happy Mothers Day-whether fur kid or people kid! :p. Whiskey seems to be doing ok on 10 mg Vetoryl per day. We honestly don't see a difference in him. Watching for signs of drinking and peeing a lot. He's still picky about dog food but hungry for treats and people food. Still begging at the table and leading us to the treat cabinet as he's done all his life! He had a bit of diarrhea yesterday but normal before and after that. I did try another dog food that I mixed with his usual food but somehow the bugger managed to only eat the new stuff so that could be why! Maybe someone can advise me on this. I had switched to Hills Science diet older adult canned-chicken and barley was the only flavor he liked and I mix in boiled chicken. Only on some days would he eat every thing mostly just picked out the chicken. Now he doesn't seem to like it at all so I bought Rachel Ray Nutrish chicken Muttballs As a garnish and of course he loves those. But a dog his size would need 8 containers per day!!!!! It's expensive too & im not sure if it's right for him with Cushings. Ugh it's frustrating and I feel so bad cuz I know he's hungry but The food will just sit there til I throw it away. And he stares at us and leads us to the kitchen(his favorite room;)). Any suggestions of brands to try would be most appreciated! Also anything else I should be watching for with the dosage change? Thanks. Annie and Whiskey

molly muffin

05-11-2016, 11:03 PM

I have a hard time finding something for my dog to eat too. Have his teeth been checked?

What about a gravy mix in with the dry?

Whiskey's Mom

05-12-2016, 08:49 PM

Yes his teeth are good thanks. He eats crunchy biscuits etc with no problems. I've tried the dog gravy that you squeeze on the food. He hates it. We gave up on dry food after trying several brands & mixing with canned. Actually he ate really well the last two days-even his dog food. Today he ate around it and picked through it for the good stuff(chicken breast) He keeps us guessing. Debating if I should try yet another brand of food. It's such a process but at least he's eating and keeping his weight steady.

Renee

05-12-2016, 10:23 PM

My Tobey got very picky too for a while.

Here is what she currently eats: The Honest Kitchen preference base mix, with boiled ground turkey as the meat source. The way it works is you hydrate the base mix with hot water, and add in an equal amount of fresh meat (your choice). She has been doing amazing on this diet after many ups and downs last year.

My other pugs (non-cushings) eat the regular Honest Kitchen.

Whiskey's Mom

05-12-2016, 10:40 PM

That is something I have not tried & will definitely look into. Thanks so much!

Whiskey's Mom

06-11-2016, 07:51 PM

. :) I would appreciate any advice or opinions. Thanks

Harley PoMMom

06-13-2016, 09:22 PM

It's so worrisome when your furbaby becomes a finicky eater and it gets frustrating finding something that they will eat on a regular basis. My boys (cat and dog) eat Fromm dry food. If your looking for toppers usually for a dog the stinkier the better :eek::D some that I have used are tripe, grated parmesan cheese, yogurt, warm meat broth, boiled potatoes. Also carbs are a good filler such as pasta, oatmeal, barley, and quinoa.

I searched for food toppers and found this: http://www.flavoredspray.com/about.html

Here's a link to the dogfood advisor where you can search for dog food and see their ratings: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/

Hope this helps.

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

06-14-2016, 12:25 AM

Thank you so much Lori! ;)

Whiskey's Mom

06-19-2016, 01:21 PM

So Whiskey started on daily 10 mg Vetoryl on May 5. A decrease from 30 my every other day as per my request to the vet based on what I learned here. He was doing good and ACTH was scheduled for May 23. The morning of the test the vet office called to say they didnt have the stim agent & would have to reschedule. I was annoyed, but since Whisk was doing ok & the dosage was decreased we rescheduled for the following week. In between there he had soft stool/diarheea(no other issues) so I stopped Vetoryl, called the vet & Flagyl was prescribed. Fed him chicken & rice. The ACTH was rescheduled again because she wanted him on Vetoryl 7 days straight prior to the test. He still had diarheea(not all day long, just when he went it was like pudding off & on). A cobalbamin & folate test was scheduled, she thought maybe he had vitamin deficiency because he hasnt been eating alot of dog food. (he gets some every day, but it has to be mixed with chicken or fish & veggies). That test came back normal. Last Monday 6/13 was the ACTH. (He eats & gets his Vetoryl at 730, 1st draw is at 1130, 2nd draw at 130.) after the first draw the vet called to say his baseline cortisol was below 1!, and to not come back for the 2nd draw, stop the Vetoryl & in 1 week we would test the baseline again. we established that other than diarheea, he was fine. and had been at the vet's twice for testing where he was his usual social self with the staff & other patients. :) We all feel so guilty and terrible that our boy was probably feeling awful inside, and we had no idea. The vet said depending on the results & how he does this week, we will come up with a treatment plan. So, his last dose was monday and by wednesday his became less picky with his food and Wednesday & yesterday he had 2 major pee accidents in the house. He was so embarrased, poor guy. Plus he is now having drips or small puddles where he lays down, and we can hear him licking at night. These things havent happened since last summer before he was diagnosed. His stool is sometimes solid , sometimes not. And his back end seems a bit wobbly. I'm so confused and worried. This has been such a roller coaster, because its hard to know if all these things are old age or Cushings. The vet mentioned possibly every other day dosing again, & based on what I learned here, that's not good. Any advice or help or support would be greatly appreciated.
Annie and Whiskey

Whiskey's Mom

06-20-2016, 05:22 PM

Whiskey has been off Vetoryl for 1 week. His cortisol today was 1.8. Last Monday at the same time after 10 mg Vetoryl it was <.5. :(. The tech relayed the message from the vet to me that she wants him to take 10 mg of Vetoryl twice a week. Spaced evenly. And repeat ACTH in 2 weeks. I'm really upset & not happy with this dosage schedule. I have a call in to speak directly to the vet. My dog definitely needs to be on Vetoryl to control his urine leakage & accidents plus whatever is going on inside his body, but I won't put him on this roller coaster agaiin. Please we could use some helpful advice. Thanks.

Renee

06-20-2016, 06:12 PM

I think your vet made a bad choice by not going forward with the full ACTH. That baseline figure can be quite low and still have an elevated post figure. Now you've made a number of changes, all without the knowledge of where his stimulated cortisol actually is.

And, there are 5mg capsules available if you want to try a lower dose.

I really think that before making any more changes, you should go through with the full ACTH.

molly muffin

06-20-2016, 07:13 PM

Sigh. Baseline cortisol is in no way an accurate way to gauge how the medication is working and Never should a vet make a dosing decision based on it. Base,one cortisol goes up and down all day long. You can have a .5 base and a 3.5 post which would be fine.
I hate to say it but your vet isn't helping you or whiskey by not understsnding how the medication and adrenal glands work together. Dechra completely discounts baseline results when testing cortisol for that very reason.
Twice a week dosing of 10 mg just proves my,point of a vet who is not knowledgable or comfortable treating a dog with Cushing's.
I know I am being tough but my concern is more,for whiskey

Whiskey's Mom

06-20-2016, 07:34 PM

Thank you for caring about our dog! We appreciate the honest and straight answers. It's what we need to hear. We had no idea about the post being important with a pre so low. It's all so confusing and stressful. And expensive. We're doing the best we can to keep Whiskey happy and he is, just wish he could tell us how he really feels. :(
I don't have many vet options in my area and I'm considering getting another opinion, but I don't know how much knowledge, if any, the others have. The nearest specialists I can find are more than an hour away and with our work schedules it will be tough plus I don't know anything about them either.

molly muffin

06-20-2016, 08:44 PM

The only thing I can think of is to give them a call. Ask how much they charge for ACTH, how many Cushing's dogs they have treated successfully.
If you stick with the current vet demand an ACTH be done. At least one and never make a change based on a pre value alone.
If you need to go with a specialist get your vet on board. Make sure you have copies of all the test done so far. You may not need to make more than one or two trips to the specialist. Year if your vet will work with them.

molly muffin

06-20-2016, 08:47 PM

Please dont think I am upset with you. I'm not. You are just starting this journey and it's a lot to learn. A vet does not have that excuse. That is whAt bothers me about so many vets who don't take the time to learn. They have our pets life in their hands and should do better with it. It's precious to us who love them.

Whiskey's Mom

06-20-2016, 09:24 PM

Thank you! All the info gathered here really helps. I spoke to Dechra today also. I just had a long talk with my vet. we decided to try 5 mg Vetoryl daily and do a full ACTH 10 days after the first dose. If 5 mg is too strong then we will do compounded trilostane at a lower dose.

Whiskey's Mom

07-02-2016, 07:42 AM

Whiskey has been on 5 mg Vetoryl once a day for the last 10 days. His appetite and drinking are back to normal. No more pee accidents-yay! His poop is back to normal too. HIs weight has been steady at 68 for the past several months. we transitioned back to dry kibble after all the trials and errors and now he only wants that. Go figure! He's a happy guy right now :) and we are so greatful. His ACTH numbers from yesterday are:
Pre: 2.1.
Post: 8.4
The vet is happy with those numbers since he is doing so well. Dechra called me for an update and they agreed. Do you guys agree?
Thanks!

Joan2517

07-02-2016, 09:00 AM

Wonderful news! So happy to hear that Whiskey is doing better. You must be so relieved....

DoxieMama

07-02-2016, 10:11 AM

I was just wondering how Whiskey was doing. Since his symptoms have resolved, those results are great! If there were still symptoms, you'd want a lower post number but that's perfect as is.

Harley PoMMom

07-02-2016, 10:16 AM

Whiskey's Mom

07-02-2016, 01:26 PM

Thank you so much Joan. We are very relieved. We are thankful for every day with him.
We will be watching closely for any returning symptoms. Believe me, our lives revolve around him. :D

Whiskey's Mom

07-02-2016, 01:35 PM

Glad to hear that Whiskey is doing well! Those ACTH results are good especially since his symptoms are controlled, just be aware that the cortisol can continue to drift downward during the first 30 days of treatment. If he starts to exhibit signs of too low cortisol such as vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, or he just isn't acting his normal self, you need to stop the Vetoryl and have another ACTH stimulation test performed to see how low the cortisol dropped. Is he scheduled to have an ACTH stim test at the 30 day mark?

Hugs, Lori
Thanks!! Whiskey started out last September on 60 mg. he weighed 70 lbs. his dose was lowered to 30 mg, then 10 mg, now 5 mg. Do I still need to worry as much about the cortisol drifting down? I will always be watching for symptoms anyway though. :rolleyes: I have to call the vet on Tuesday to schedule the next test, I wanted the results before the long weekend. Even though Whiskey is good I'm still nervous.

Harley PoMMom

07-02-2016, 02:55 PM

You just never know how a dog will react on Vetoryl, some are more sensitive to it than others. :( Since Whiskey's been having a roller coaster ride with the Vetoryl, if this were me, I would have his cortisol rechecked maybe in a couple of weeks but no longer than a month...but that's just with me being such a worry wart :o

HUgs, Lori

molly muffin

07-03-2016, 01:36 AM

Y a I would recheck often till you feel he is on the right dose for him and his levels remain consistent. Then you can go longer in between unless something occurs to make you concerned.

buffysmom

07-04-2016, 01:33 PM

Wow...big drop in dose! So happy Whiskey is doing so well

Whiskey's Mom

07-04-2016, 03:08 PM

Thanks! I read on here that sometimes bigger dogs have lower dosing as time goes on. Guess that's the case with him
Hehad kind of a strange day yesterday. Not much appetite for his actual dog food again. Then later in the day he was drinking and going out to pee a lot. Slept soundly through the night though and seems fine today. Normal poops which I'm happy about. Of course I start to worry what's next but I just keep telling myself one day at a time.

Harley PoMMom

07-04-2016, 05:59 PM

Thanks! I read on here that sometimes bigger dogs have lower dosing as time goes on. Guess that's the case with him

Yep, you are correct and here's a link to that published article: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/journal-scan-bigger-dogs-may-need-less-trilostane-control-hyperadrenocorticism

Hehad kind of a strange day yesterday. Not much appetite for his actual dog food again. Then later in the day he was drinking and going out to pee a lot. Slept soundly through the night though and seems fine today. Normal poops which I'm happy about. Of course I start to worry what's next but I just keep telling myself one day at a time.

Increased drinking/urination along with a reduced appetite can be a sign of an UTI. Since cushdogs have diluted urine a regular urine analysis may not pick up the bacteria in the urine so an urine culture and sensitivity test is recommended.

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

07-04-2016, 07:09 PM

Thanks. He just finished his third round of metrodiazonole since he had diarrhea for awhile. Hoping we don't have to start again. But actually he just gobbled down his dinner so hopefully it's nothing. Worry worry. That's me.

Harley PoMMom

07-04-2016, 07:30 PM

Worry worry. That's me.

We are all with you so you're in good company!!!!!!! ;)

kanga

07-04-2016, 09:17 PM

Hello welcome to the forum! How's Whiskey now? Is there any good improvement?

Whiskey's Mom

07-04-2016, 11:54 PM

Whiskey is a happy guy so it's really hard to tell how he's feeling. Since last August it's been one thing after another. We just got his poops back to normal last week, now it seems the past 2 evenings he's leaking pee when he's napping on the tile floor. :( we will Keep watch and see if it still happens. Then I'll be calling the vet. Again. Also he has always hated fireworks, barking and growling at them. (We live in the country so lots of people use them and it echoes through the valley) This year he doesn't seem to care about them. A few grumbles that's it. I know his hearing is fine because he can hear the fridge or a kitchen cabinet opening from anywhere in the house and he hears my husbands truck coming before I do. Just seems odd & thought I'd mention it. Thanks for listening

molly muffin

07-08-2016, 11:08 PM

That is strange about the fireworks not bothering him. I give mine melatonin when i know there will be fireworks or thunderstorms and that seems to help her.

Always something isn't it. Is the leaking continuing?

Whiskey's Mom

07-09-2016, 12:02 AM

Nope no more leaking for now. I guess it's something that we have to expect once in awhile since he's going on 14. :) we'll deal with it as long as he's happy. Knock on wood he's been eating better and his poops are pretty normal too. My husband takes him out at 6 am every day and there was a deer in our front yard yesterday. Whiskey took off like a shot to chase it. :eek: thankfully he didn't go into the woods and he's not limping. I coddle him because of last years ACL tear, which happened on a slow walk anyway. so I guess I need to let him have some fun. Sigh. Always something for sure.

Whiskey's Mom

07-12-2016, 10:49 PM

Hi!I was just looking back at my thread & I realized that I never posted the first test results that we had done to diagnose Cushings. I'm so sorry if that seemed rude, but I was so frazzled and upset back then I just forgot. It's a bit after the fact but maybe someone else can benefit from our experiences as I have from reading other's posts. So we noticed Whiskey was leaking urine while he slept and when he would stand up quickly, also we would find a puddle where he was laying and he would always be licking himself, especially during the night. The vet did urine tests & he had a UTI which took awhile to get rid of, but the leaking continued. (sorry the only results I dont have are the urine tests, but I know a UCCR was done). We noticed his hind legs seemed a bit weak at times, he stopped jumping over our fence to chase critters :p, and he didn't have the stamina to take long walks anymore. The bones in his head and spine were more easily felt. He was always a big eater and drinker, so that didnt seem like an issue, and he had no fur loss, rashes or pot belly either. We thought all this was due to his age(almost 13 at the time) and the summer heat, but he had never had any health issues before this and was pretty much acting like his usual goofy self :D. The next blood work results that were abnormal:
Alk Phosphatase 687 High range 5-131 U/L
GGTP 16 High range 1-12 U/L
Cholesterol 372 High range 92-234 mg/dL
Then he had his first ACTH stim(SNAPshotDx), before Vetoryl :
baseline cortisol 2.5 ug/dL
2 hours later cortisol >30.0 ug/dL range >22 -in the presence of supporting clinical signs, results are consistent with Cushings
For financial reasons, we didnt get an ultrasound, and I dont think we'd be doing anything differently as far as treatment anyway. He started at 60 mg Vetoryl daily (he weighed 72 lbs ) and the rest is in the thread. There have been some rough times, but now he is on 5 mg Vetoryl daily and is doing well. We are enjoying every minute with our crazy funny loving sweet boy! This forum has been fantastic-both the knowledge and the kindness, and it warms my heart to see how much we all love our dogs.
Annie and Whiskey

lulusmom

07-13-2016, 08:59 AM

Annie, thank you so much for this additional information. I promise you that nobody thinks you are rude for not sharing it sooner. I had to smile when I read that because I remember when I was new to the disease. I was so focused on giving Lulu her meds properly and staring at her all day waiting for her to get sick that I was lucky to remember my name. :D Reading that Whisky ultimately ended up on a fraction of the original dose prescribed brings a study to mind that suggested that perhaps bigger dogs can be effectively treated with smaller doses than normally recommended for their weight. Of course, like so many other studies, additional studies would be needed to prove that theory but I think we've seen enough here to validate those findings. My 4.5 lb Pomeranian stabilized on 30 mg once a day so go figure.

I was glad to read your prior post and see that Whiskey is doing well. We'll be keeping fingers and paws crossed that he continues to do well. Please keep us posted.

Glynda

Whiskey's Mom

07-15-2016, 06:59 AM

Thanks Glynda. I still stare at Whiskey and watch constantly for changes but he's getting used to it. I'm so worried that on this low dose his symptoms will return that I over analyze everything. I'm trying to control myself but I did just measure his belly so I could compare numbers if I thought it was getting bigger. He stood there patently but the look on his face was priceless. :rolleyes:
He was a bit quiet and picked the good stuff out of his dinner yesterday but it's really hot & humid here. Hoping we're not headed for diarrhea and meds again. One day at a time.

DoxieMama

07-15-2016, 09:33 AM

Crossing our fingers and paws that Whiskey tolerates this dose and continues to do well!

molly muffin

07-16-2016, 02:58 PM

Sending good thoughts to Whiskey and you.

It's funny how they pick out what they like. Molly always has a pile of food she decides she doesn't want beside her bowl. She puts it in her mouth, nope not what I wanted, spits it out on the floor. They sure do have their minds made up.

Whiskey's Mom

07-16-2016, 06:26 PM

Thanks guys! Whiskey spits his food out too, sorts through it in his mouth. The last time he ate "muttballs" he actually spit them out in a neat little row! I'll put the pic in my album. Too funny. Other times he just makes a big mess which he never used to do. You never know.
The last few days he's been fussy with his food again. Hungry but not for dog food. And when he poops it's solid followed by soft. And it's been more brownish yellow than orangish. Then he squats a few more times but nothing comes out. Darn. (Sorry-gross- I know) Last time I talked to the vet she felt it was not Cushings related. I tend to agree. I'm waiting to see how he is tomorrow and I'll call the vet Monday to see if he needs metronidazole(Flagyl) again. Does anyone know if it's dangerous for him to be on it so much? I did see some info about high dosages not being safe but I also read that some dogs need it often. Cushings pups are more prone to infection correct? So I guess this is his weakness. :(

judymaggie

07-16-2016, 06:50 PM

Hi! Abbie had a long history of chronic diarrhea/soft stools. When really bad, she was on twice daily metronidazole. I was concerned about side effects but never saw any. Now Abbie is on a daily dose of metronidazole (1/2 tablet = 125 mg.) and also a daily packet of Forti-flora. She weighs 24 lbs. Also, her cortisol has been in control for several months. Folks here and my vet advised that uncontrolled cortisol can increase inflammation of the intestines resulting in diarrhea/soft stool.

Whiskey's Mom

07-16-2016, 07:15 PM

Hello & thanks for the helpful advice! I'll check into the Forti flora for him. I have refills on the metro here but I always hate to rush into giving it to him. Yet I think if I wait to long it seems to take longer to get his poops back to normal. I feel better about it since reading your response. I gave him pumpkin last year when he had a bad case, but since then he has a big aversion to anything pumpkin. Don't know if he associates it with being sick but...it's not an option.

Whiskey's Mom

07-17-2016, 08:32 AM

Whiskey still gets Denamarin every day. Just wondering if it's worth while or necessary. Thanks

lulusmom

07-17-2016, 09:48 AM

Whiskey still gets Denamarin every day. Just wondering if it's worth while or necessary. Thanks

Dogs with cushing's do not have liver disease, they have enlarged livers due to increased glycogen storage. Providing liver support doesn't address the underlying cause of changes to the liver in dogs with cushing's so if cortisol is not reduced, the liver will continue to over accumulate glycogen, which is the reason why dogs with cushing's have enlarged livers. While no studies have been done, it is thought that because Demarin and other similar supplements that promote glutathione, it may help support liver function. Again, these liver support supplements do not eliminate the cause of the over accumulation of glycogen which is excessive amounts of cortisol so you probably won't see any improvement in liver enzyme abnormalities until cortisol is reduced by effective treatment. Even then ALKP may not completely return to normal.

Dr. Mark Peterson responded to a pet owner who asked a similar question on one of his Q & A pages for vets and pet owners; "The Denosyl and Denamarin can't hurt your dog and may help some types of liver disease, but they probably aren't going to change the clinical course if he does have Cushing's disease."

Whiskey's Mom

07-17-2016, 06:58 PM

Interesting. And and a bit confusing. I always seem to be second guessing every decision I make regarding Whiskey. today his poop was normal. He ate pretty well, but he's kind of quiet. My husband says to give him a break. He's almost 14 & seems content & relaxed with his life as it is.

Whiskey's Mom

07-18-2016, 09:56 AM

Whiskey has been very quiet the last few days. I wouldn't say lethargic just subdued. And he's back to not eating his dog food. Just whatever else is in his dish and any dog treats or people food. Normal poops. I didn't give him his Vetoryl today. I hate to experiment on him but I'm thinking of not giving it to him for a few days to see if he improves. I read on here that it's ok to hold off since it's a slow progression of Cushings. But I also just got a post by judymaggie(thanks!) on my thread that uncontrolled cortisol can lead to inflammation of the intestines. I'm assuming uncontrolled means high? Also these things could just be the actions of a senior dog which I hate to admit. I'm so worried and unsure of how to proceed. :(

buffysmom

07-18-2016, 10:26 AM

It's the indecision that is the worse right? I'm going thru almost the same with Buffy. She ate her ground turkey this morning and I think that's because other than some beef last nite that my husband gave her and a couple of treats she wouldn't eat her food. She is having her test wednesday so unless she stops eating or shows other signs I dont want to stop her meds. I sure hope Whiskey starts feeling better.

Harley PoMMom

07-18-2016, 11:01 AM

Elevated cortisol over a period of time does have the potential to cause systemic damage. But if there are concerns with regards of Whiskey acting "off" than withholding the Vetoryl is the correct thing to do. ;)

Hugs, Lori

lulusmom

07-18-2016, 11:10 AM

Giving Vetoryl (trilostane) to a dog who is not eating is not recommended. I would like to share a response by Dr. Mark Peterson, a recognized endocrine expert to a pet owner who asked him about her dog who was not eating; "Dogs with Cushing's should feel pretty well and they should have a good appetite. If your dog isn't eating, this is a big problem. Either a concurrent disease is present or the trilostane is lowering the cortisol values too much. You should recheck with your veterinarian as soon as possible. In the meantime, I would not give any more of the trilostane." Another very important reason to not continue dosing a dog without a normal appetite is that Vetoryl is fat soluble and it must be given with at least a small meal for proper absorption. If a dog is not eating at least a small meal, Vetoryl will not be effectively absorbed. If not well absorbed, an acth stimulation test would not accurately reflect the appropriateness of the dose being given.

Glynda

Whiskey's Mom

07-18-2016, 02:01 PM

Thanks everyone. I went home on break to check him and he seemed a bit better. Was exploring the yard etc. he ate some chicken and a hard boiled egg plus treats. The dog food kibble remained untouched. We'll see how he is tonight then go from there. :(:confused:

DoxieMama

07-18-2016, 04:11 PM

Whenever V doesn't eat, I know he doesn't feel well. I hope Whiskey is feeling better soon.

Whiskey's Mom

07-18-2016, 06:31 PM

When my husband got home Whiskey led him right to the dog treats. He just now ate part of his dinner. The human food part. Left the dog food even though I put some gravy in it. Now he's begging at the table. This keeps happening with him. It's almost as if after about a month on a certain dog food he gets tired of it. What a roller coaster!

Harley PoMMom

07-18-2016, 08:59 PM

Have you tried warming up his food in the microwave? Just throwing some thoughts out......

Whiskey's Mom

07-18-2016, 09:07 PM

Oh I appreciate it! But yes. I've tried that. He will eat the people food at any temp. Won't touch the dog food at any temp. He pretty much sucked the gravy off of it before spitting it out tonight. Sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel on dog food and feeding him whatever he wants.( Adding supplements )

Harley PoMMom

07-18-2016, 09:25 PM

Sometimes I feel like throwing in the towel on dog food and feeding him whatever he wants.( Adding supplements )

At his age I would be inclined to do the same, sometimes it's more important that they eat and not what they eat. When my boy, Harley, got real picky with eating I'd buy McDonald cheeseburgers for him, he really liked them.

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

07-18-2016, 09:48 PM

Thanks Lori. He just loves all kinds of food & and within reason I'm going to let him have it. He loves McDonald's cheeseburgers too and many other things. It's pointless to keep throwing dog food away. And pointless to feed him something he doesn't like! Up until a few months ago, he happily ate(inhaled)his dog food & never gave us a bit of trouble his whole life. Now is his time to be rewarded. :)

molly muffin

07-18-2016, 10:38 PM

Discerning taste. Whiskey knows the good stuff. Molly is the same but sometimes if I get the chicken mixed in with her reg food she will eat some of it. Not always but sometimes.

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2016, 01:11 AM

I, also, believe with our elder pups that they tend to lose their ability to smell things like they used to. I've heard or read that the stinkier the food is the higher chance you have at enticing them to eat :confused:

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

07-19-2016, 06:38 AM

Oh I agree-I hear a lot of sniffing going on before I hear chewing!
Discerning taste as Sharlene said! I made him frozen yogurt treats and he absolutely loves them. I'm wondering if the probiotics in the yogurt are helping his tummy.

Joan2517

07-19-2016, 09:12 AM

Lee loved her cheeseburgers, too! I could've hid anything in them and she would gladly eat whatever it was!

Whiskey's Mom

07-19-2016, 09:25 PM

Whiskey got his cheeseburger for dinner tonight! No hesitation eating that. Spent some time looking at dog foods today wondering what to try next, wish you could just buy a sample to see if they like it!
It's his second day of not having Vetoryl. He seems a bit more active but it's also cooler & less humid here. It's so hard to figure out if he just didn't feel so great Or if the Vetoryl truly doesn't agree with him. Wish the ACTH test was easier & cheaper so i would know exactly what's going on there too. :confused:
I don't know if I should give vetoryl to him tomorrow with breakfast as usual or hold off a few days. Help!?!? :confused::confused::confused:

Harley PoMMom

07-19-2016, 10:00 PM

I wonder if you were to send an email to the dog-food companies asking for a sample of their product that they just might either send you a sample or a coupon for it??

If he does seem to acting and eating better off the Vetoryl I would be inclined to continue withholding it.

buffysmom

07-19-2016, 11:53 PM

Sounds so much like Buffy. I've tried everything. Sometimes she will eat some of the canned dog food and by dinner won't touch it. Won't touch dry food. Loved her turkey for about 3 days and then stopped. It gets so expensive and frustrating...especially when they beg for people food. We are giving ground turkey or some type of meat for breakfast. If she doesn't feel like eating dinner we aren't trying to make her. I have gotten her to eat a scrambled egg now and then. Just wanted you to know you aren't alone 🐶

Whiskey's Mom

07-20-2016, 07:20 AM

Thanks for your kind words. It's great to have support on this forum.
I'm going to email some dog food companies to ask for samples. It's hard because now his poops are normal and I hate to be trying all these different dog foods. Although this past week he's been eating everything from cheeseburgers to honeydew melon with no issues. Go figure!

Squirt's Mom

07-20-2016, 09:20 AM

Have you tried some tuna water over the feed? You might also try some, maybe one or two, sardines crumbled in the feed. Like Lori said - something that has a strong odor. :)

Whiskey's Mom

07-20-2016, 06:52 PM

I've tried tuna and soaking the kibble in tuna water. He just picks out the tuna and licks around the dry food but thanks so much!
So after walking the dog food aisles at pet smart :confused: I bought a random can of dog food that seemed appealing. And -success! He ate half the can and sat by the counter staring at the can and me -wanting the rest. I didn't want to give him too much to see if it agreed with him but it seems to. I also tried giving him his dry food then and he refused it. His poop was a bit softer now but ok. He was a lot more cheerful this morning-wagging his tail and more energy. So I with held the Vetoryl again. Just watching for signs of high cortisol & taking it day by day. I'm sure in a few weeks he'll get bored with this food but for now I'm relieved & he's happy.

Whiskey's Mom

07-25-2016, 09:42 AM

Today is one week without Vetoryl. Whiskey just seems happier over all, he is more alert and less quiet. Though we do notice his back legs seem a bit weaker and he's definitely hungrier. We'll continue to watch for signs of increased cortisol and go from there. I wouldn't hesitate to restart the Vetoryl again if he needs it. And I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying it based on my experience. It still puzzles me how Whiskey could go from needing 60 mg daily to nothing but whatever works for him we will do. I'm going to call the vet this week to keep them informed. And I will schedule laser therapy for his back legs. Since it helped heal the injury Maybe it will help keep his legs stronger in general. Does anyone think I should try a lower dose than 5 mg rather than nothing? I'm open to advice or suggestions & thanks for being here! :)

Harley PoMMom

07-25-2016, 12:04 PM

I would definitely wait until symptoms of high cortisol return before starting the Vetoryl again. Hypocortisolism can develop at any dose of Vetoryl and in some cases, it can take months for those adrenal glands to regenerate.

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

07-27-2016, 10:03 PM

Thanks Lori, I'm watching closely. So far so good. There's been a lot more tail wagging going on around here, a good sign! And I'm gradually introducing his current preferred dog food. ;) Mister gourmet keeps us guessing!

Harley PoMMom

07-27-2016, 10:08 PM

Just loved Whiskey's recent pic!! My Harley not only wanted the burger but the fries too!!!! I swear he would eat anything! :eek::)

Whiskey's Mom

07-27-2016, 10:18 PM

Oh Whiskey would have eaten everything on that table if I let him! I used to, but I'm so afraid of pancreatitis or anything bad that could happen from it, since his poops aren't always perfect. But he tolerates the burgers well!

Whiskey's Mom

08-03-2016, 12:01 AM

Hi! So we're still holding our own here without Vetoryl. I hope I'm doing the right thing but Whiskey is really happy so I'll go with that. I'm very greatful. when should I be scheduling an ACTH for him? Should I wait until symptoms return? I'm so afraid of making a mistake with him. If it was me I wouldn't care ;) But He's truly the center of our little world.

Harley PoMMom

08-03-2016, 05:13 AM

Personally, I would wait until symptoms have rebounded before having an ACTH stimulation test performed.

DoxieMama

08-03-2016, 09:16 AM

Yep, I'd wait too. I *am* waiting! :)

Whiskey's Mom

08-03-2016, 10:06 PM

Thanks Lori! & Shana yeah that's right-you're waiting too!:)

Whiskey's Mom

08-07-2016, 05:00 PM

So Whiskey has been on a strange up and down trend here between normal stool habits and diarrhea/soft stool/metronidazole on and off for several months. Here's our situation now: whiskey is acting fine & seems to be feeling good & eating well. When he poops, he first makes a solid normal stool. Walks to another part of the yard and makes a soft stool then walks away and squats again with soft/runny stool. All this within less than 2 minutes. Has this ever happened to anyone?? I'll be describing this to my vet this week- just looking for input. Just when we think he's back to normal it starts all over again.

judymaggie

08-07-2016, 05:13 PM

Hi! My Abbie had the same pattern of bowel movements for a very long time. Since I have her on a regimen of pumpkin mixed in with every meal, Forti-flora once a day and a daily low dose of metronidazole (125 mg. -- she weighs 24 lbs.), she has had firm bowel movements.

I am very grateful about the improvement since, starting several months ago, she rarely makes it to the grass before her poop comes out. Since her poop is now solid, I can easily pick it up from the sidewalk/street/neighbors' driveways without having to go back and rinse everything!

labblab

08-07-2016, 05:32 PM

My non-Cushpup, Peg, also suffered from intermittent stool issues for large sections of her life. Sometimes she would do just as you are describing; other times she would advance from solid to mushy within the duration of a single poop. We also dosed her with metronidazole during flares. And I don't know whether it was just coincidence, but as is the case with Judy's Abbie, we seemed to see longer periods of remission after we started daily probiotics (we used Vetri-Science Mega Probiotic capsules) and a higher fiber supplement (pumpkin never seemed to help Peg but she tolerated a "Missing Link" veterinary blend supplement pretty well).

As I say, I'm not sure whether these supplements really "did" anything or not. But we figured they didn't hurt Peg and they might have been helping. Mostly, though, I just wanted to tell you that I understand your frustration and your wish to be able to help Whiskey overcome this issue, having been there and done that myself. :o

Marianne

Whiskey's Mom

08-07-2016, 06:23 PM

Thank you both so much for your quick and thoughtful responses. You guys are amazing! :) I know at his age to expect these things but I want to help him as much as I can. So I'm going to try a sneaking in some pumpkin to start with. Then move on to adding probiotics. Hopefully this will help our boy as it did for your dear sweet girls. Thanks again, I'm truly greatful.

judymaggie

08-07-2016, 06:35 PM

Do start off with just a little bit of pumpkin -- Abbie liked the taste right away but it is important to gradually increase. Pumpkin is a tricky thing -- too little and it doesn't help; too much and it makes things worse. Abbie now gets 1/2-3/4 teaspoon in each of her three meals.

Also, be sure to get plain pumpkin -- not pumpkin pie filling! I hunted all over the grocery store and finally discovered it in the cake aisle, not the canned fruit section.

dsbailey

08-07-2016, 08:05 PM

Just throwing this out there. I read a while ago while researching new food for my girl that this condition can be caused by malabsorption from overfeeding. I'm guilty as charged - :o

Darrell and Lolita

Whiskey's Mom

08-08-2016, 12:34 AM

Tried mixing in about a tablespoon of plain pumpkin into half of Whiskeys dinner. He wouldn't eat it! Sniffed and looked at me. So I gave him the other half of dinner with no pumpkin and he ate it all. So we'll try the probiotics( not sure of which one to choose!) because tonight's poop was all mushy. Ugh. I feel bad for him because he squatted for so long that his legs were all shaky. Also we noticed his coat is a bit dull, not bad, but not as shiny and soft as usual.
Darrell, actually my concern has been that Whisk hasn't been eating enough. He's been a steady 68 lbs but feels bony. He only eats 1 can of dog food / day. Half at breakfast & half at lunch, mixed with rice and chicken. According to the label on the can he should be eating around 3 cans per day. I've tried feeding him more but then he doesn't finish. He gets healthy dog treats and people snacks too like eggs & I make home made frozen treats too. But the word malabsorption strikes a chord because if the food is moving so quickly through him & he's not getting enough nutrients that would make his coat dull, right? :confused: something else for me to obsess over.

Harley PoMMom

08-08-2016, 01:05 PM

Squash is another alternative to pumpkin, I used to purchase the butternut squash baby-food (stage 1) for my boy and he would eat it.

Hugs, Lori

Whiskey's Mom

08-15-2016, 06:19 PM

Whiskey had blood work on Thursday. Here's the abnormal(high) results with the ranges.
ALT(sgot) 125. (12-118)
Alk Phosphatase 920. (5-131)
GGTP 34. (1-12)
Urea Nitrogen 32. (6-31)
BUN/creatinine ratio 46 (4-27)
Cholesterol 339 (92-324)
Platelet Count 438 ( 170-400)
He's happy & acting normal except for diarrhea. He's still on metronidazole 500 mg twice daily. when the vet called me the only results she mentioned were the liver values so we started him on Rx for Pets Hepato support(she said it would be better for him than denamarin) and Proviable DC probiotics. I picked up a copy of the results today & they upset me. :( again now he doesn't like the dog food he's been eating for the past 3 weeks. I mixed ground turkey & potatoes with it and he's picking through it, walks away. He will eat what I made if I omit the actual dog food. If I want to home cook I know I need to add minerals etc to the food and it's all very confusing to me. I don't want to go crazy adding all these thing to the poor dogs diet all at once. I'm going with the liver support & probiotics and I'll feed him what he likes for now. Does that sound ok?? :confused: Feeling very overwhelmed, but I don't want Whiskey to know that. He's very in tune to my feelings. I just want to do the right thing for our sweet boy.
Also my vet said the only way to know what's really going on is to do an ultrasound, which I can't afford but the treatment would probably be the same since surgery wouldn't be an option either. Just trying to keep Whiskey happy & feeling good.

Renee

08-15-2016, 06:48 PM

May I make a suggestion on the food? My Tobey got very, very picky with her food after a while. The solution I found was to use the base mix from The Honest Kitchen. Basically, it is a dehydrated mix that you rehydrate with hot water and then add in the protein of your choice. Tobey eats Preference (one of the base mix flavors) with added ground turkey. It is NOT a complete meal unless you add your own meat. Rehydrating the mix is just like making instant oatmeal. You measure out the dried mix, add hot water, let it set for 10-15 minutes, then add in your cooked meat. She has been on this for the last 6 months and had no upset belly and she really likes it.

In terms of just feeding him what he will eat - most dogs are fine eating an incomplete diet for a while. It won't hurt in the short term, but it will hurt in the long term. You just do what you need to do.

If mal-absorption is a concern, you may try administering Pepcid AC an hour before each meal. It should slow down his motility and decrease the acid production, allowing him to absorb the food better.

I sure feel your frustration. It's hard trying so many things and never knowing what will or won't work.

DoxieMama

08-15-2016, 06:49 PM

Hopefully one of the admins will be by to provide their insight as to those results.

I'm not sure what you would need to add to ground turkey and potatoes... maybe calcium because they need quite a lot of that and a good multi? The DogAware.com (http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html) site has a lot of good information. Maybe that will help.

Hugs, Shana

Whiskey's Mom

08-15-2016, 07:29 PM

Thanks so much guys truly. I was having a moment when I posted :rolleyes: but after some doggie cuddles and reading your posts I feel better. I was on the dr Dodds website (from you Shana) where I saw the potato & fish(or other meat) recipe then adding veggies & Missing Link supplements. Then I try to calculate how much food & supplements he needs and I get all goofed up :eek: Renee you had told me about Honest Kitchen before I think but I of course forgot. That sounds like a great option for us.
I think his alkaline Phosphatase is high because of the Cushings & he's not on his Vetoryl right now.
Again thanks :) sorry for sounding crazy

Renee

08-15-2016, 08:06 PM

I home cooked for a while, and yes, getting all the ingredients & supplements straight can be a challenge. I'm not a huge fan of Dr Becker, but I agree with her statement that the worst commercial dog food is still better than a dangerously incomplete homecooked diet. Calcium is one of the most important supplements and many people forget it or miscalculate it.

There is an excellent vitamin mix, which includes calcium and most everything else, that you can use. I used it. It's by Call of the Wild. If you use that, along with your cooked food, then you should only have to add a fish oil as well. But I would suggest taking your time formulating any long-term homecooked diet.

Anyway, as for the Honest Kitchen, they will mail you free samples. Just check their website. And, they are carried by a lot of dog food supply stores as well. I think they have a search engine on their website to find retailers.

Whiskey's Mom

08-15-2016, 08:29 PM

Thanks for the info! With so many supplements out there it's hard to know which one to pick. I just ordered the free samples from the Honest Kitchen. So we'll see if Mister Whiskey approves :p.

Harley PoMMom

08-15-2016, 08:56 PM

ALT, GGTP, and Alk Phosphatase are all liver markers however the ALT and GGTP are more specific to the liver which would be concerning to me too.

Another test that can show if the liver is functioning properly is a bile acid test, I'm not certain how much it cost, maybe ask the vet if this would be a viable option for Whiskey.

Hugs, Lori

Joan2517

08-15-2016, 10:14 PM

Lena would eat any people food, but she wouldn't eat her kibble at all anymore (which she used to love!) I still miss hearing her pushing all the pieces around in the bowl. So as long as she still ate people food, I would mix her kibble with warm water, mush it up and then add anything that she liked. I also bought her some of the Wellness entrees and mixed that in there (that was a treat as they never got wet dog food).

In the mornings I would make her eggs, scrambled or poached and mix mushy kibble in that too. Getting her to eat became a full time job in the morning and at night.

It's so hard when they won't eat, especially when all they used to do was eat. You'll find something Whiskey will eat, you'll just have to get very creative and sneaky!

Whiskey's Mom

08-16-2016, 12:38 AM

Lori I've read alot about the bile acid test in here, guess I'll see how Whisk is doing after awhile on his new supplements before I have it done. Thanks
Joan-thanks for the vote of confidence! I've tried so many ways of disguising dog food but he's like a detective at finding it and removing it! If I mush it up too much then he won't eat. And I've tried so many dog foods but They only interest him for 2-3 weeks. He will eat almost anything thats not dog food. So when I cook for him I make nutritious things, but I know they're lacking. he still eats dog treats so I have a variety of healthy ones that he never refuses. Every time he does something cute(which is often;))-he heads over to the treat cabinet for his reward. :) But I'm hopeful about the Honest Kitchen brand that Renee suggested. The samples are on their way

molly muffin

08-16-2016, 04:11 PM

I see the BUN/Creatinine ratio was elevated but I don't see whether it was the BUN or the Creatinine that caused the elevation. BUN can go up for many reasons, including dehydration, while Creatinine is more specific to the kidney.
If neither are elevated then it is probably not kidney related is my guess.

Food, ugh I hate thinking about food too. LOL I did get one of the royal canine renal food finally that molly likes (today at least) The last one she started out liking and then refused. Luckily my vet will take back anything that molly stops eating, so I'll be exchanging on renal can for another to top her food with and see if that helps. I'm currently going down the more ..hmm..aromatic route to entice her. :)

Whiskey's Mom

08-16-2016, 07:26 PM

LOL! Miss Molly Muffin liking her stinky food.:) Cutie pie!
Whisk ate some dog food mixed in with his chicken & rice today. Surprise! Poop firming up so hope we're on a trend here.
On the lab work his Creatnine was 0.7 with a range of 0.5-1.6. So that was normal. There was no BUN value alone. It's odd but Whisk does most of his drinking later in the day. His lab work was done early afternoon, so possibly he wasn't up on his fluids. My daughter mentioned BUN levels & dehydration in humans & thought maybe he didn't drink a lot before his tests. The vet didn't mention it either.

Renee

08-16-2016, 08:23 PM

The Uria Nitrogen is your BUN. Which is just one point out of range.

molly muffin

08-16-2016, 10:55 PM

Right Renee, missed that. With creatinine being normal, then I'm thinking probably dehydration too. It's pretty common in dogs actually when they go to the vet it seems.

DoxieMama

10-22-2016, 09:24 AM

How's Whiskey?

Whiskey's Mom

10-22-2016, 10:28 AM

Hi & thanks for asking! Funny I was wondering the same about V. I haven't been on in awhile & noticed that you hadn't posted either & I was hoping things were ok. :)
Whiskey is doing great, aside from the occasional diarrhea, which is pretty random. If that's his only issue, at almost 14, we can deal with it. I know his liver isnt the greatest but he's a happy guy. He takes Hepato Support, a probiotic & occasionally metronidazole. Walks are short, but now that it's cooler we can go a bit farther. He's the star of our little neighborhood, so we stop to visit both doggie & people friends, and he enjoys every minute of it. There is a 1 year old golden up the street & Whiskey actually play bows at him to start some fun! It warms everyone's hearts.
His Cushings symptoms have not returned, for which I am grateful. But I have to wonder if he ever even had Cushings in the first place. I go back over his initial symptoms and after learning so much from this forum, I do have doubts. Especially since there are no signs now that he's not taking Vetoryl. Before finding this wonderful forum, there were things happening that really scare me now. Last Thanksgiving weekend he had vomiting & diarrhea, lethargy & some tremors-I have to wonder if he was having an Addison's crisis. If I would have been on this forum I would have known more, and I am forever grateful that he survived whatever that was. Something told me to stop the Vetoryl til he felt better, which I did, and he slowly improved, but I shudder to think what could have happened.
So I feel a bit like a fraud being on here, since I may not really have a Cush pup, but if others can learn from us, that's great.

DoxieMama

10-22-2016, 10:36 AM

So glad to know he's doing well! When is Whiskey's birthday? Maybe he and V can celebrate turning 14 together. :D

Maybe our pups have Cushing's, maybe not. But now that you're here... you're family. <3

Joan2517

10-22-2016, 10:48 AM

Whiskey's Mom

10-22-2016, 11:45 AM

That sounds great! Sometimes I wonder if I had stopped the Vetoryl or gone back to 10mgs, if Lena would still be here. If I had been on this forum longer, I think I would have known better. If I ever have to go through this again, I will definitely be better informed.

We torture ourselves with doubt and guilt, always second guessing. our pups love and trust us so we do the best we can. But some things are unfortunately out of our hands. Thankfully there are places like this where we can learn & get support.

Whiskey's Mom

10-22-2016, 11:46 AM

judymaggie

10-22-2016, 06:41 PM

Hi -- I'll be happy to change the title of your thread. Maybe "Whiskey -- Possible Cushing's" ... or whatever you want.

Whiskey's Mom

10-23-2016, 07:34 AM

Hi, sure that's fine. Whatever you think is best. Thanks! :)

molly muffin

10-26-2016, 09:54 PM

We were for a long time, a Maybe Cushings dog too. :) maybe it is, maybe it isn't, maybe it is this or maybe it is that. LOL like a revolving door of maybes.
or ping pong. Boing! LOL that was how I felt often

Whiskey's Mom

10-30-2016, 11:14 PM

Yeah Sharlene-i always say it's like a roller coaster! Last year at this time I really couldn't afford an ultrasound knowing that I'd be having to pay for ACTH tests and vetoryl( of which I have so much leftover) but maybe it wouldn't even have been a definite Cushings diagnosis. In hindsight I don't think I'd do that much differently(except find this forum sooner ;)) Because then we had to pay for the laser treatments on his ACL injury-which was well worth it.
Today it was strange, Whiskeys back legs were really wobbly in the morning. He needed help on the stairs. We were so worried but after about 2 hours he was back to normal. No other changes. He ate and begged at the table as usual. It was damp here today so we thought maybe he was stiff from sleeping funny. I , of course ,thought the worst, but now he seems fine. Always watching for symptoms to return.

Whiskey's Mom

10-31-2016, 06:43 PM

Whiskey isn't one for costumes but I did post a Halloween pic. He's ready for the trick or treaters- he loves kids!

molly muffin

11-02-2016, 05:53 PM

awww love the halloween pic! Go whiskey!!! LOL

Whiskey's Mom

12-03-2016, 07:15 AM

Hi all. Whiskey went for blood work & check up last week. He shows no symptoms of Cushings thankfully, but we're still dealing with bouts of diarrhea- here one day and gone the next. There's no pattern that I can find, I kept a food log to see if there were any triggers but couldn't find any. Outwardly he's a really happy guy but vet saw that his gums were a bit pale and his liver/spleen feel enlarged. Don't have the actual numbers yet but his liver values continue to rise. his RBC & platelets are normal so thankfully he's not bleeding internally. Vet thinks it's likely given his age, breed and symptoms that he has a tumor there. :(But ultrasound is the only way to know for sure. We discussed options and outcomes, and we're gonna love him and spoil him as much as we can. We will Continue giving him his Hepato support & probiotics, & possibly low dose daily metronidazole. I'm beyond heartbroken and devastated-there are no words. but I have to hide my tears from Whiskey, He is very sensitive to our emotions. We are living in the moment and I can tell you that he is enjoying life 100%. We spend all our free time with him and love every minute of it. He will be 14 on Wednesday, bless him. I'm posting a pic of him under our Christmas tree. He loves laying under it, always has. And makes himself even cuter by curling up next to our manger scene, which was my grandmothers, so it's really special. It was so so hard to type this, but Thanks for being here.
Annie and Whiskey

labblab

12-03-2016, 08:35 AM

Hi Annie, I sure do understand your worry and also the bittersweet days associated with an aging companion :o. I just wanted to point out, though, that a liver tumor may not be at play. If we were assume that Whiskey does indeed have Cushing's, then the swollen abdomen and rising liver enzymes would be par for the course and not necessarily acutely sinister. Regardless, given his age, I know you are especially treasuring every moment you have with him.

And I can sympathize re: the diarrhea. My 8 y/o nonCushpup Lab has been having on-and-off bouts of soft stools for a month now, with no explanation. She's been worked up for parasites, all bloodwork is normal, and she otherwise acts totally healthy. So at this point I'm going to experiment with changing up her food -- although if it's the food, why wouldn't she be consistently bad? These guys do like to keep us on our toes, don't they!

Anyway, sending many hugs your way, and hoping that you'll all be able to share the love of the holiday season with your sweet boy today and yet for many days to come.

Marianne

DoxieMama

12-03-2016, 08:49 AM

Hi Annie, it sounds like Whiskey is doing well, aside from the occasional runs. I am glad that he's still happy, enjoying his short sniffing walks you described on another post. The Christmas scene sounds almost magical. Please give him a couple ear scritches for me... :)

Is he going to get a McD burger for his birthday?? :D

Joan2517

12-03-2016, 08:59 AM

That's a beautiful picture of him, cradling the creche. He looks happy and that's what counts. It's so sad that they age so much faster than we do. They are never here long enough. Fourteen! Wow!

I can see how beloved he is in all his pictures. You are lucky that you have time to enjoy and make more memories...I wish that I had had more time to prepare with Lena. I love the paw prints! I am going to do that with all my babies. The only one of Lee's that I have is the one the ER did after she had died...as glad as I am that they did it, it hurts to look at. Did you use a kit? Or prepare the mold yourself? I looked at kits in the store and they were $10 each and I have 4 dogs.

Whiskey is such a beautiful boy. I know you are hurting. It's amazing how they pick up on our feelings, isn't it. When I cry for Lee, Gable gets upset and clings to me. Before Lena died, she wouldn't look me in the eye anymore. It was like she didn't want to see the worry in my face, or she didn't want me to see that she didn't feel right. Most of the pictures I have of her in the last year are of her with her face turned away from the camera. I have lots of pictures of her back and you can see how enlarged her belly was...I knew something was wrong, but couldn't figure out what.

It will be a year this week that she was diagnosed. Thanksgiving was hard enough, but Christmas is going to be a killer. I picture her happy and well again, maybe in my father's lap and I try to find comfort in that...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Hugs and comforting thoughts to you....I'm thinking of you...I know how you feel.

Joan

Whiskey's Mom

12-03-2016, 07:25 PM

Thanks so much for all your kind words. It really means a lot
Marianne: in my distress- I had forgotten that the vet still thinks he has Cushings even tho he has no symptoms and that could also possibly be the reason for the enlarged organs she feels and the liver values. are you treating your pup with antibiotics for the diarrhea? I did hear from Judy that her girl is on the maintenance dose of metronidazole. I'm considering it too. It's so dejecting when they have a few normal days, then go back to a day of the soft or mixed textured poops! I'm going to try just my home cooked chicken breast & rice for awhile & see what happens. He loves it & gobbles it up. When I mix it with dog food he's not so thrilled to eat sometimes.
Shana: ear scritches from you are already done. And burgers are on the menu for his bday!
Joan: I made a basic salt dough recipe that I found online. I rolled it out and cut out circles with a coffee can, poked a hole with a straw for the ribbon & pressed his paw in. It was easy & inexpensive. the paint was acrylic in the little bottles- they're only about $1. I also wrote on the back his name & date. If I can find a link I'll post it here. I know how much you're missing Lee, especially with the holidays coming.
My heart breaks for all of you losing your pups this past year. It's awful. I love all animals, but we always wonder why can't dogs have a longer lifespan. It's so unfair.

molly muffin

12-04-2016, 12:41 AM

I wish they had a longer life span too.
I think we all get the spending as much quality time as possible with them as every day is precious that they are with us.
I loved the pictures. Nothing better than a dog under the Christmas tree. I'll miss that this year as it was Mollys favourite spot.

labblab

12-04-2016, 07:57 AM

Whiskey's Mom

12-04-2016, 09:31 AM

Whiskey's Mom

12-04-2016, 09:42 AM

Hey Annie, yes, we tried a short course of metronidazole and also some probiotics. The probiotics actually seemed to make things worse, so I stopped them. Luna was better for several days after the metronidazole, but then started back again with the intermittent issue. She doesn't have frank diarrhea, but on occasion has big soft stools with mucous. Since she otherwise seems fine, I think I'll just try a food change for now. If that doesn't solve things, I may ask about a longer course of the metronidazole to try to calm things down for good.

Marianne
Interesting about the probiotics. I cant say whether they're helping or hurting, unfortunately all this involves experimenting(in a kind way of course). Whiskey doesnt have "frank diarrhea" either. He will go 3 times in one outing, the first starts out normal & ends soft, the other 2 he squats longer with small mushy amounts. And he's not asking to go out more than usual either. The next day he's back to normal until it happens again. There are no other signs, his appetite & personality are the same. My vet suggested 5 days of the full course of metronidazole(2 pills per day), then 5 days of one pill per day, then on to 1/2 pill once per day long term for maintenance. Provided things stay firm. ;) Always on poop patrol in our house.

Joan2517

12-04-2016, 09:46 AM

Thanks, Annie...I would love to do the paw prints the same way you did. Funny, Gable poops the same; starts out normal, goes again and a little soft, then once more very soft and mushy. Next day, fine. I haven't been able to figure out what might be wrong, if anything!

Whiskey's Mom

12-04-2016, 09:52 AM

http://www.craftymorning.com/salt-dough-puppy-paw-print-christmas-ornament/
Joan,
This is the link for the paw prints I made for Whiskey, there are lots of others online & on pinterest, and many ways to paint & accent them. I really enjoyed doing it with him. I'm not a crazy crafter, but I also took the picture of him that I posted here, and framed it as gifts for my daughters as well. I used the fun foam kits from the craft store. They were both in college at the time so it was easy to display in their teeny apartments, and very meaningful since they missed Whiskey so much(still do-come home to visit him every chance they get!:))

Joan2517

12-04-2016, 10:03 AM

What a great idea! Thanks, Annie...

Whiskey's Mom

12-14-2016, 07:48 AM

Hi everyone. Thankfully Whiskey is holding his own, no signs of anything sinister as of now so we're making every day count, taking lots of pics & videos too. ( I added a few new ones ;) ) He loves winter & rolling in the snow & he enjoyed his 14th birthday & opening all of his presents. :) I did make a change in food to the Honest Kitchen. Renee had suggested it to me awhile back and for now he has no diarrhea- just a rumbly tummy sometimes which doesn't seem to bother him. Fingers & paws crossed it stays that way. We send love and gratitude to all during this holiday season.
Annie and Whiskey

Joan2517

12-14-2016, 08:30 AM

That's great that Whiskey is doing well, Annie!

labblab

12-14-2016, 08:36 AM

Awwwww, thanks so much for the update and new pics, Annie -- they are wonderful! Hoping for a great holiday season for you guys, too, and please give Whiskey a giant hug from his family here! :) ;)

Marianne

DoxieMama

12-14-2016, 09:36 AM

Happy birthday, Whiskey!!!!

molly muffin

01-09-2017, 11:44 PM

Happy New Year to you and Whiskey

How are things going?

Whiskey's Mom

01-12-2017, 01:22 PM

Happy New Year to you! I was thinking of all of you during the holidays who were missing your dear pups, and hoping you were doing ok. I can imagine how bittersweet it was.
Things are ok, thanks. Whiskey is his happy self, but we do see some changes in him as he ages. He has some moments where I wonder if he's not feeling great but it passes. His appetite and thirst are not what they used to be. Can't seem to get Rid of the off & on diarrhea. Just switched to a new Probiotic so maybe that will help. My daughters were both home for most of December so it was great having someone home with Whiskey all day, they totally spoiled him of course. :) most of our holiday celebrating took place at home so we could be with him. If he couldn't come along,then we didn't go. I actually think he's a bit depressed now that they're both gone and I'm back to being a nervous wreck all day at work,hoping he's ok. We are just enjoying every moment with him and trying not to think too far into the future. But I'm a worrier and I can't help it.
Funny story: One day my daughter was sitting with him and she had a glass of water. He stuck his snoot right in the glass & drank the whole thing! So now he has his regular water bowl on the floor but we got him His own special cup that we offer him twice a day & he drinks! King Whiskey. ;)

DoxieMama

01-12-2017, 03:03 PM

Bahahaha @ the water story. What a character!

labblab

01-12-2017, 03:07 PM

Being a born worrier myself, I understand how hard it can be to keep the worries from overshadowing the moment at hand. :o

But I wish your family many more loving moments with your sweet boy. And yup, the water story is a great one! ;) :p

Marianne

Joan2517

01-12-2017, 03:40 PM

I remember one time when Lena was just a puppy, I was picking vegetables in the garden and put my gin and tonic down on a stump and the next thing I knew she had her little head in my glass! I dropped everything and ran! I'm not sure she drank any she seemed fine, but it was the first of many panic-stricken calls to my vet. They probably laughed every time I called...

molly muffin

01-14-2017, 12:35 AM

Molly always wanted to drink out of glasses of our water. I got her a special glass too. A bit wider at the bottom and top, so she could drink from it and plastic so it wouldn't break. Too funny.

How about setting up a video cam at home to keep an eye on Whiskey while at work?

Whiskey's Mom

01-31-2017, 11:20 AM

I've thought about that but he does move among different rooms to snooze in his favorite spots during the time we're gone. I know because I put treats there & they're gone when we get home. ;)
I'm just afraid something terrible will happen and he'll be all alone.

Joan2517

01-31-2017, 12:53 PM

I worried about that too, Annie. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better if she had died at home surrounded by the boys and Doree, instead of with strangers in the ER, or if I had been there with her when she passed...

But then I realize that no matter how she died, I would still be consumed with guilt, sadness and "why"...nothing will make it better for me.

Whiskey's Mom

02-01-2017, 06:31 AM

Aww Joan I'm so sorry. You're such a loving person and your bond with Lee will never be broken. But I understand how you feel.

Joan2517

02-01-2017, 08:33 AM

I know you do, Annie...I'm so glad that you have time to enjoy Whiskey and I love how you leave treats in different rooms for him. What a great idea. They just love to be spoiled! And he must've been sooo happy to have the girls home for the holidays! He is one lucky fella...

I have a hard time going out without Sibbie. She is so used to being with one of us. She does stay home for a few hours with the rest of them when she can't go where we are going (and I think she likes it), but there are too many of them for all of us to go, even for a ride. I think that because it has hit me so hard with Lena, I want to spend as much time with them as they might have. The boys are both going to be 9 and Doree is either 12 or 13 (I can't remember).

I think of all of you often...and it makes me smile when I see Whiskey's picture. He looks so happy!

molly muffin

02-02-2017, 07:21 PM

I too think that is so cool leaving treats in different rooms for him. I bet there is nothing better than going around and finding those during the day.

Have you thought of setting up web cams in the house so you can keep an eye on him periodically?

Whiskey's Mom

02-02-2017, 08:19 PM

Joan-We did enjoy the holidays with him so so much. He just loves the tree and opening presents. He thinks they're all his!!! Of course I was thinking that this could be his last Christmas with us but that could be said about anyone at any time, so I was determined to push those thoughts away as much as possible.
Sharlene-good idea about the webcams! I'm clueless about how that stuff works so the poor dog would end up tangled in wires with me in charge! As of now he is home alone 4 days/ week but never longer than 4 hours at a time so It's going ok. I can take him to work with me but it's not an ideal place for him and I really think he's more comfortable at home. If there's ever a day that I'm really worried I will take him along.
My main concern now is his appetite. It's so unpredictable. But we keep trying and whatever I can get him to eat is what he gets. Yesterday I offered chicken & rice-no. Then beef & pasta-no. I was eating raw cauliflower(no dip/I'm On my millionth diet) and I dropped a piece- he snapped it up and wanted more!! Go figure.:p I only gave him a little because yikes-he sleeps next to me after all and I didn't want him to get a tummy ache. I never know what to expect so we just roll with it and let him decide. He does have an appetite- it's just finding the right thing at the right time. Other than that he's a happy guy. I found an old ball in the closet and it's like he was reunited with a long lost friend. :) He's been carrying it around for days, dropping it and pouncing on it. Taking it outside with him. Sleeping with it. Too cute. The only thing he hasn't done is chew it to bits(yet) which was always his thing to do. He could chew the hide off a baseball in Less than a minute so he was only allowed Kong balls during unsupervised play :D it's been fun watching him enjoy something so simple!

Joan2517

02-03-2017, 08:18 AM

That sounds so lovely, Annie...

Whiskey's Mom

02-06-2017, 04:49 PM

So as I said in my last post, Whiskey has gotten very picky recently. I realized today that this kind of coincides with his being on 1 dose daily metronidazole for his stool issues. I don't really think it's helping, his stool is still soft & today it was even softer than usual. But I did read that it could affect appetite in dogs and can create a metallic taste in humans- which could be the case here. I have a call into the vet but I think I'm going to stop it for awhile to see if his appetite perks up. He's still eating, but at times refuses even his most favorite things which is so upsetting. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated!
Annie & Whiskey

molly muffin

02-06-2017, 05:49 PM

How long has he been on the metronidazole? I know I only gave it for a few days to clear up any bacterial causes of soft stools.
It is possible that it is affecting his appetite if on it for a long time.

Harley PoMMom

02-06-2017, 07:39 PM

Tylan Powder also known as Tylosin is one med that have used in the past to treat diarrhea.

Whiskey's Mom

02-06-2017, 09:12 PM

He's been on metro since 1/12. Twice a day until stools firmed up then once a day maintenance dose since he's been having issues for several months. He still had on & off soft stools and occasional diarrhea so it really wasn't helping much anyway. I spoke to the vet and we decided to stop the metro to see if his appetite picks up. we are adding Rx Clay to his food twice a day and trying Probiotics again too. Tonight he ate his whole dinner with the Rx clay powder on it. Phew- I really didn't think he would touch it but I'm really happy that he did! Fingers & paws crossed this helps.

molly muffin

02-07-2017, 08:37 PM

Yay for eating dinner. :)
Tylan is a good option to as Lori mentioned if the soft stools don't clear up.

Whiskey's Mom

02-09-2017, 08:09 PM

Thanks for the info on the Tylan. That will be my next move if the clay powder doesn't help. He had a normal poop today! I almost hate to say it so as not to jinx it but I'm hoping it continues. His appetite is still a bit off but he ate the food with the clay powder on it. It has no smell just made the food a bit grey. :eek: he also has some yellowish drainage from his left eye which I got drops for from the vet. It doesn't seem to bother him but hopefully it will clear up.
I took Whiskey to work with me today. I work in a big flower shop and everyone there knows him. He greeted all the customers and acted like he owned the place! Took some pics-I'll post them. Now I know he feels comfortable there so he can come with me sometimes. We also had a snowstorm and he loves the snow so he had a good day. Every day with him is a such a special gift.

Joan2517

02-09-2017, 08:23 PM

Holy cow! You work in a flower shop? I work in the 1800flowers building in Carle Place, Long Island (not with flowers, but i do love them); my husband is a horticulturalist;he has worked on estates for the last 45 years growing flowers in gardens, greenhouses, etc. We turned our garage into a greenhouse. Our backyard is planted with everything he planted on our last two estates.

I got a snow day today and Sibbie, Doree and the boys had a great time while I shoveled paths in the backyard for them to run around on!

Whiskey must love the snow...my boys do and Sibble had the best time today. Lena used to love the snow, even though it stuck to her like ulcers! She would come in covered in these snowballs. Sibbie did today, too. She didn't know what was happening, but we had fun removing them and letting her eat them like ice cubes!

Whiskey's Mom

02-09-2017, 08:54 PM

Wow how bout that? Yep It's the only job I've ever had. The shop has been in my uncles family since 1896. There are greenhouses and garden center and we grow our own poinsettias, fall mums, annual flowers and vegetables & herbs. I work with cut flowers so this week will be crazy! I'll bet your gardens are fabulous and unique.
Whiskey just loves the snow and cold. He takes his ball out & pushes it in the snow with his paw then digs for it with his snoot! He comes in covered with those little snowballs too, especially his toes.

Joan2517

02-09-2017, 09:14 PM

We are Kindred Spirits, Annie!

It's going to be a year on Feb. 19 since Lena has died, but I have met so many people through this forum, that I almost think that Lee has orchestrated it. I want so badly to think that...

Whiskey's Mom

02-09-2017, 09:47 PM

Oh Joan, 1 year. Anniversarys are so hard. All the firsts too. So tough. I really do think Your little angel guided you here. Those bonds can't be broken, she will always be a part of who you are. This forum is such a source of comfort and support and I have learned so much too.

Whiskey's Mom

02-12-2017, 06:58 PM

It's getting harder and harder to find foods that Whiskey will eat. Dog food is a thing of the past. I've tried so many. Now most days he won't eat My home made chicken & rice or eggs which he never refused before. He eats treats, as many As we give him but his taste changes with those too. (Might not eat one kind in the morning but at night will ) He Loves the cold cuts that I wrap his pills in but I'm afraid to give him too much even though they're "heart association approved". He begs to have what we're eating. Tonight he had spaghetti & meatballs.: I hesitate with things like that because of his stool issues. So I'm so twisted about what to do: it doesn't seem to matter what he eats- he still has occasional diarrhea and more often soft stool than firm-but I'm sure all these different foods aren't helping. Is it wrong to feed him what he likes even if it's not the healthiest choice rather than nothing at all?:confused:

Squirt's Mom

02-13-2017, 10:44 AM

Avoid feeding him anything that contains onion of any kind. Be sure to check the ingredients of any canned, frozen, prepared foods you eat that you might share with him for onion content.

There comes a time when getting them to eat is the priority. With a young, healthy dog it's not out of bounds to let then go a day or so with no food in order to build up the appetite so they will eat things that are better for them. But with our older babies that is not always possible so food period is the goal.

I went thru this with Squirt after her stroke - I think we tried every dog food PetCo carried, even the cheapo ones like Purina and Iams that scared me to pieces and that I wouldn't feed a stray much less my heart-n-soul dog....but desperation drives us so we do things we normally would never consider. I bought every kind of animal protein my grocer carried to cook for her OR feed raw...and I am NOT a raw proponent at all. We would cycle back around to FreshPet and she would usually eat that for a day or maybe even two but then turn her nose up at that again so off we would go searching for something, anything she would accept. I even tried hamburgers from fast food joints! :eek: Thankfully she never wanted more than a small bite of them. So I can empathize with your efforts with Whiskey. Just avoid onion and continue doing the best you can.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Harley PoMMom

02-13-2017, 11:38 AM

It is heart-breaking when your furbaby does not want to eat, my Harley did that. And it can be frustrating trying to find something that they will eat.

I'm with Leslie in that trying anything that will entice them, I, too, even bought fast-food burgers (no onions) for Harley :eek::) In this situation, I believe, getting them to eat is more important than what they eat. I am so sorry that you and Whiskey are going through this.

Many hugs being sent to you and sweet Whiskey, Lori

judymaggie

02-13-2017, 04:10 PM

Annie -- as I have mentioned before, I am going through this with my Abbie. The latest thing I am trying with her is to make a topper out of cat food -- yup, chicken and liver pate ... My vet suggested this. I started doing this on Thursday evening and she ate 7 good meals! This morning, unfortunately, she left half the food in her bowl but am going to try it again tonight. I mix a little bit of the cat food with hot water and put it on top of her food. I am still mixing in tuna and chicken and added some water before I heat it up in the microwave -- this creates some "gravy". Just a thought for Whiskey ...

molly muffin

02-13-2017, 07:04 PM

Wow, how lucky are you to work with plants all day! I'd love that. Imagine since 1896. That is so awesome.
Joan, lucky you girl! A horticulturist for a hubby. I'm just wowed. :) (obviously I love plants and spend a good deal of time at the local nursery.)

I loved the picture of whisky with the snow on his nose and then him under the flowers. Very nice.

I did the cat food thing with molly, not overly much but I did try it. It worked sometimes for her, but I had to keep switching things and when she got very bad with the kidney failure, I was literally buying a can of everything I could find to try to entice her. It can be soooo frustrating when they don't want to eat you and you don't know which way to turn next to get them to.

Whiskey's Mom

02-14-2017, 01:03 AM

Thank you all so so much for your kind replies-just got in from a long work day so I'm late responding. All that you describe is exactly what we're going through. It's hard to see the dog who always inhaled anything we fed him be so fussy. When I got home tonight he led me to the fridge & he ate some ham and cheese then a bunch of salmon dog treats. So at least he still has an appetite. I'm going to try all of your suggestions. I'll do anything for him it's just so upsetting and frustrating and heartbreaking, my poor boy.
Leslie-hate to admit that up until last year Whiskey ate nothing but Iams, what a dummy I was. But thanks for the advice!
Lori-thanks for understanding and the hugs.
Judy- yay for 7 good meals! Hoping for 7 more. What did you put the cat food topper on top of?
Sharlene-with V-day tomorrow I'm not loving flowers so much. I'll be counting roses in my sleep!
Again, many thanks to all of you here, I knew I could count on you guys! Love to all on Valentine's Day
Annie and Whiskey

Joan2517

02-14-2017, 09:08 AM

I've been so busy at work that I haven't had time to post, but I am thinking of you and Whiskey, Annie.

Squirt's Mom

02-14-2017, 10:34 AM

aw Annie, we all do the best we know until we know better, then we do better. I fed Squirt horrid food for years until I learned a bit about dog food...then I did better. But that didn't stop me from feeling terribly guilty when she got Cushing's, believing I had caused it from her horrid diet. A good website for comparing commercial foods/feeds is this -

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Whiskey's Mom

02-14-2017, 08:25 PM

Thanks Joan and Leslie. This morning he ate some tuna with rice. I had to put some in his mouth and then he ate everything In his dish on his own. He really likes the Blue Buffalo salmon treats so I went to Pet Smart(again) and got their salmon food- canned and roll. Didn't get the dry kibble cuz they only had big bags. He didn't really like either of them, unwillingly ate just a bit(I think he did it just to appease me, I really do! Bugger). Guess I'll try again in the morning- you never know. My husband had got him a Fast food burger earlier & he was salivating over it & ate the whole thing. He was out exploring the yard & playing in the snow today & now he's chomping on a Nylabone so I guess he feels ok. One day at a time. Thanks for the support on here, it's truly a lifeline.

Whiskey's Mom

02-15-2017, 05:58 PM

Don't know if I mentioned this but last week Whisk's left eye had a bit of yellowish pus in the inner corner. After a day or 2 of this I called the vet & he was put on Tobramycin drops for one week. The eye is exactly the same. No worse no better. Not a lot of goo just enough for me to wipe out 2-3 times a day and it's not swollen or red. He's not rubbing it or anything. The vet wants to see it tomorrow. But I mentioned to the Tech about his food issues. When she called back I felt like I was being scolded for not "consistently feeding him the same thing" I don't know what they expect me to do. I'm not force feeding him. I'm also not going to starve him!! Just hoping my vet understands what I'm dealing with at our appointment tomorrow. (You would think she would) Sorry to complain but I needed to vent. Maybe I'm being Too sensitive. Thanks for listening.

Joan2517

02-15-2017, 06:03 PM

They have a lot of nerve...you feed him whatever he will eat, Annie. I doubt his eye has anything to do with his food.

Squirt's Mom

02-15-2017, 06:05 PM

Techs can sometimes get too big for their britches, as we say here in the South. ;) One of the techs at our vet's office read me the riot act and told me I could not bring my babies back until they were all up to date on vaccines - there were ALL special needs and Doc and I had already discussed the fact that none of them needed any more vacs. I told him what she had said and she no longer works there. I almost felt bad when he fired her but learned I was not the only one she had gotten snippy with and that she had presumed to speak for him with others on several occasions. So don't take it to heart - you are doing all you can and WE know that as does Whiskey...and that's all that really matters. :D

molly muffin

02-15-2017, 06:11 PM

Whiskey's Mom

02-15-2017, 06:39 PM

Thanks guys! I'm not an idiot & obviously I know the process of changing a dog's food. It just doesn't apply here at all. I'm pretty sure she was relaying the vet's message & she's may be new cuz all the techs there know & love Whisk. But still- it all looks good on paper but try actually doing it. I'll have time to cool off before the appointment so I don't flip out on anyone.
Also- yesterday he had a McD burger & god knows what else my husband gave him (he's desperate to find something too) and his poop this morning was the most normal I've seen in a long time! Go figure!

Whiskey's Mom

02-15-2017, 06:48 PM

pffft, when a dog won't eat consistently it's pretty darn hard to feed something consistently. They need to just remove that from their vocabulary if they can't distinguish when it should be used and shouldn't. So...pfffttt and a hmmmph

Hope you survived Valentines with fingers in one piece and minimum nicks. :)
I love that! Pffft & hmmmph is right. Thank you!
Oh how did you know my hands are a mess! They sting when I wash them & feel like sandpaper. No such thing as a manicure for this girl!

DoxieMama

02-15-2017, 07:53 PM

I'm probably weird, but I'm really happy to see that Poop Patrol is still on duty. Funny about the McD making things look normal.

Pfffft and hmmmph... techs too big for their britches, indeed! I'll refrain from adding my commentary regarding my vet's tech, yet again.

As for the food, I know it's not "the best" or "what is recommended" regularly but I think you're feeding Whiskey consistently. Whatever he wants that day, just like me! ;)

Hope your hands heal quickly from all those thorns.

Joan2517

02-15-2017, 07:59 PM

Lena loved McDonald's cheeseburgers! We would share them on road trips. After the Cushing's diagnosis, whenever we went to the vet, we would get a couple on the way home and sit in the car by the beach and eat them.

It was months before I could eat them again after she died. It's almost a year and I still get weepy thinking of her and how much she loved them...but then I smile, thinking of her and how much she loved them.

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 09:10 AM

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 09:12 AM

Joan2517

02-19-2017, 09:31 AM

Every fiber...how true!

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 09:33 AM

Whiskey had his vet visit last week. The tech I had has a 16 year old dog and agreed that you feed them whatever they want & whenever they want it. The vet said the same. Whiskey's weight has been a steady 66 lbs for 9 months (he was always around 72) so I'm happy that he hasnt lost any more weight. She put him on Reglan to see if he will want to eat more. She said it would move the food out of his stomach faster. I really don't understand why she did that because he has never vomited or had signs of vomiting, just turns his head away like the sight or smell of things makes him sick. I didn't know anything about the drug until after we left(she used the generic name & I wasn't familiar with that). She also mentioned an appetite stimulant if this doesn't work. He had the Reglan twice yesterday & was no different, in fact he refused all treats except stinky salmon jerky that my daughter brought him! He seems to like things that are well seasoned as opposed to bland. I made him his own meatloaf last night & he ate it, refused rice, pasta & potatoes so I'm worried about too much protein. My daughter is a pharmacist & didn't understand the Reglan, but said to try it since she only works with humans. We'll give it a week, and she suggested Pepcid instead-less side effects.
As far as his eye, the vet said they are a bit sunken from loss of fat in the head & this creates a small gap between the eye & lower lid which can get a bit infected. Also older dogs sometimes dont' blink as much & their eyes can be dry. His eyes are still glossy, which is good, and she wants me to continue the Tobramycin drops in the goopy eye & use artificial tears in both eyes. I only have to clean the goopy eye in the morning so I think its getting better. Did anyone ever hear of this?
His temp was normal, gums still pale. We will repeat bloodwork in the near future. Vet mentions the high likelihood of cancer-which I think is the case, and also untreated Cushings, but he has zero symptoms and I still say he was misdiagnosed. At this point I'm not arguing with her. I just want to keep him comfy & loved & fed, I can see him fading but the spark is still there most days. Our hearts are breaking

Joan2517

02-19-2017, 09:41 AM

Awww, Annie...he's happy and he knows that he is loved.

DoxieMama

02-19-2017, 09:57 AM

Visuddha had an eye infection and my vet also tested and said he had dry eyes, so we had a couple different things (artificial tears and ... I can't remember the other but it was for infection).

I'm glad that both the vet and the tech you saw agreed to feed him the way you are doing! You are doing fantastic for him... stinky salmon jerky sounds good!

What about putting veggies/potatoes into the meatloaf?

I agree with Joan though... Whiskey is happy, comfy and loved and that's what counts.

Squirt's Mom

02-19-2017, 12:11 PM

As our babies age, their sense of smell diminishes so the stinkier the better is often the route to go. Parmesan cheese, tuna or the water from the can, tripe, etc. are good things to try. Salmon and cod are pretty stinky fish as my house can attest since that is what I am cooking for Trink....beef liver (not calf) is also quite odorous. :D

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 03:30 PM

Shana-great idea! When I made his meatloaf I added egg & bread & cheese & some tomato sauce but never thought of veggies! I'll try it.
Thanks Leslie-He turned away from tuna last week so I'll try again with that. Tonight I'm making cod so he'll get some too if he wants. The thought of cooking tripe or liver grosses me out, but I'll do it for him! He always loved pork too so I'm going to try that this week.
My younger daughter came home today to visit him- I had to be honest with her about Whisk. She kind of knew but I think we're all in denial. This was the first time she saw him refuse treats and peanut butter- which is both of their favorite food . She was 8 when we got him so this is really hard for her. She was in an accident when she was 16, (followed by a streak of bad luck) & spent a lot of time at home recovering with Whiskey by her side. This is so painful.
On a lighter note, the neighbor kids were out playing and he heard them & ran over there & stole one of their balls, just like he always did! Tail wagging and totally ignoring me!

Budsters Mom

02-19-2017, 03:45 PM

Genteal Severe Ointment has been used by several of our pups for dry eyes, including mine. I use it myself. It was recommended by a veterinary ophthalmologist. Use only the severe formula. The liquids are too runny and don't stay in the eye.

Kathy

judymaggie

02-19-2017, 03:56 PM

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 04:20 PM

Whiskey's Mom

02-19-2017, 04:23 PM

Annie -- be careful with the pork. With Whiskey not eating, you want to stay away from anything with high fat content.

I've landed on something that Abbie is willing to eat (at least for right now)-- she has even eaten three times a day for the past three days! It is Hills Prescription Diet Digestive Care i/d low fat Rice, Vegetable & Chicken Stew. I have no idea why she likes it but you might get a can for Whiskey and see what he thinks. I heat it up in the microwave for a few seconds. You would have to get it from a vet.

Oh yes I'm careful about fatty meats for us too. I usually do a lean cut in the crock pot & he always goes crazy for it so that was my plan. Thanks for the info on the food-I'll see if my vet has it. Have you ever tried the Fresh Pet rolls?

Harley PoMMom

02-19-2017, 04:31 PM

One of the ingredients in Harley's formulated diet was chicken gizzards :eek: you can buy them separately and they are pretty cheap, Harley really liked them.

Hugs, Lori

molly muffin

02-19-2017, 11:44 PM

Chicken gizzards and the food Judy mentioned are good ideas.

Whiskey's Mom

02-20-2017, 04:21 PM

Yuck! But thanks-I'll do it if I have to. Last night he ate cod and today chicken plus some treats that he had been refusing. It's unseasonably nice weather here so he's enjoying it & his "girlfriend" came by to visit. He went charging outside to greet her, tail wagging, and they explored the back yard together. So sweet- she's a golden also. :p he seems much better today so we're relieved.

Whiskey's Mom

02-24-2017, 07:36 AM

We had a vet visit this week and decided to do an X-ray. Our poor boy has a large tumor in his abdomen & going upward into his chest. It's pressing in his stomach which is why he hasn't been eating. Surgery is out of the question and his time with us is very limited. He is acting pretty normal but slowing down a bit. My daughters are home early for the weekend to love comfort and spoil him.( which we always do anyway) We are beyond devastated. I know we are lucky to have him 14 years but he is everything to us. We know decisions will need to be made. It's so so hard. our hearts are broken in a million pieces.

labblab

02-24-2017, 08:18 AM

Annie, I am sending a million hugs your way! I can only imagine how bittersweet this weekend will be for your family, but what a gift for Whiskey that he will be smothered with love. And what a gift for your family that you will all be together to make memories that you can tuck safely away in your hearts forever. But I know there will be tears, as well, and I am so sorry for your pain. You have done such a wonderful job of caring for your sweet boy. No doggie could ask for a better life or a more loving family. My own heart is with you all this weekend, and in the days to come.

Marianne

Joan2517

02-24-2017, 08:54 AM

Take a lot of pictures, Annie...I didn't take a lot of Lee those last couple of months (I thought we would have more time) and now I wish that I had.

DoxieMama

02-24-2017, 09:45 AM

Annie, I am so so sorry. As crushed as I feel to hear this news, I can only imagine how difficult it is for your family. Please be kind to yourself, give Whiskey all my love... hugs and kisses and tears abound. You are and will remain in my thoughts.

Shana

Harley PoMMom

02-24-2017, 11:50 AM

Oh Annie, I am so sorry too. Holding you all in the thoughts and prayers and sending comforting loving hugs your way.

More hugs, Lori

Squirt's Mom

02-24-2017, 03:12 PM

Oh, Annie, my heart just crushed like tissue paper reading your post. :(:(:( I know you and your family are devastated. Love him as much and as long as you can, making many memories to cherish over the years to come. Know we are here anytime you need to vent, to talk, to cry, scream, whatever - we DO understand.

Hugs and gently belly rubs,
Leslie and the gang

molly muffin

02-24-2017, 04:55 PM

Sending you big big hugs.

I'll be back next week to see how you and Whiskey are doing.

Whiskey's Mom

02-25-2017, 04:10 PM

Thank you all for your love and kindness and concern. We are having a great family weekend with our sweet boy. Honestly, if not for the X-ray we wouldn't know anything was wrong. I'm not in denial that something is wrong, just greatful that he seems to be holding his own. It's been unusually warm here so we grilled and he ate and spent time outside exploring the yard & visiting the neighbors. So we're just loving him and spoiling him (more than the usual). We'll be taking things one day at a time and hoping for the best. Again, thank you all for your support-it means the world to us.
Annie , Whiskey and family

labblab

02-25-2017, 04:15 PM

Oh, I am so very happy to hear about your lovely (and loving!) weekend. Annie, please give Whiskey a huge hug from his family here, as well, OK?

DoxieMama

02-25-2017, 05:14 PM

Yay! A beautiful warm day spent with friends and family, can't get better than that.

Whiskey's Mom

03-01-2017, 09:03 PM

Just checking in with a Whiskey update. He is doing pretty good- about the same as he was before we got the sad news, except his appetite is actually better. We are in a groove with grilled chicken and / or meatloaf and he cleans his bowl at mealtimes with treats all day. Sometimes we have to kind of put the food against his teeth so he gets a taste of it & then he eats everything. I don't know if his sense of smell is off or what but it works. My girls had a great weekend with him & though we had tearful goodbyes, they were happy to see him looking so well. He is really enjoying working with me & greeting customers, and all the pats and attention. I had some families in for funeral flowers and they were all so happy to see him. The one woman told me petting him was just what she needed and it was the first time she smiled in months. :) I don't know what's next for our sweet boy but we are loving every minute we have with him & taking it day by day. Thanks to everyone for your care & concern. Annie & Whiskey

Joan2517

03-01-2017, 10:20 PM

He has graduated to emotional support dog, Annie! It's amazing how many people will tell you their stories while enjoying petting your dog. I have had many people come up to me and Sibbie and they will open up about their pets, and also their losses.

Then I cry with them....

DoxieMama

03-02-2017, 09:14 AM

Such a wonderful update. Thank you for checking in, Annie. I think of you and Whiskey often.

labblab

03-02-2017, 09:16 AM

Me, too!! ;) :) :)

Squirt's Mom

03-02-2017, 10:54 AM

Those pats mean all the world to him and to those people in pain. They help calm and sooth both parties so I think that is wonderful. Thank you for sharing such a great update on our sweet boy!

molly muffin

03-05-2017, 09:39 PM

Awww great update. :) Pats are special :) So glad to see that Whiskey is doing well and enjoying his doggy days at work with you. :)

Whiskey's Mom

03-13-2017, 10:56 AM

Hi everyone,
Whiskey is still holding steady, and we're very very greatful. I would say our biggest issue with him still, is eating. He is so so changeable with what he wants, so I have a variety of options for him. He will eat the same thing for a few days, then decide-nope, that's yucky, now I want something new. We're trying to find the humor in it, rather than getting frustrated, because he can really sense that. We keep trying and roll with the punches and feed our little gourmet whatever he wants. A friend visited and brought him Milkbone Maro Treats, which is something he never had, and he LOVES them. He was sticking his whole face in the box and eating them like dog food. :D He also likes Rachel Ray Soup Bones. So sometimes those things are all I can get him to eat, which I've come to accept as OK. It's better than him eating nothing at this point. I know I'm not the only one on here having trouble with our pups eating, maybe you can try these things too. I did have my mini vacation in Florida and everything was fine while I was gone, our hearts were in PA with Whiskey though. Now we are hunkering down for a big snowstorm. :(

Harley PoMMom

03-13-2017, 12:10 PM

I am so glad you are finding foods he will eat, and yep, I do believe that when they do not want to eat that anything is fair game, it is more important for them to eat and not what they are eating...Good job, Mom!!!

I'm from PA too! Man, I hope we do not get what they are forecasting...12-24 inches is just wayyyy too much. :eek::eek:

Hugs, Lori

Joan2517

03-13-2017, 12:24 PM

So glad you had a good time away, Annie! As long as he eats, give him whatever the dear boy wants~

molly muffin

03-13-2017, 09:26 PM

Yay Whiskey, what dog wouldn't love to have treats for dinner. :) LOL
If it works, it works. That's whats important now as you said.

So glad you got to have your mini vacation and it was all fine. A break is likely just what you needed.

I'm super glad to hear that Whiskey continues to just be, well Whiskey. That's really good news and makes me smile.

Whiskey's Mom

03-14-2017, 10:57 AM

Lori- we have over a foot already & still snowing heavily. I'm in the northeast/Pocono region so we usually get a lot but this is ridiculous!
Whiskey loves the snow but it's way too deep for him to trudge through, although he tried to go visit the neighbors. Last night and today he wouldn't eat any of the usual meals I make for him. He did eat treats & was pretty active in the snow, but I'm still worried. :( He's drinking ok so hopefully I'll find something else to feed him. It's so hard, especially knowing what we know.

Joan2517

03-14-2017, 11:35 AM

Our blizzard is a bust! Only about 3 - 4 inches...lots of wind though so we do still have a nor'easter. Rain and sleet, ugh. I'd rather have the snow. At least I got to stay home with my darlings and we are all on the couch while I work from home.

How about eggs for Whiskey? Does he like them? Even though Lena got very picky at the end, she did love her scrambled or poached eggs, sometimes with bacon crumbled up in them and some buttered toast pieces....that's what my MIL used to give my kids and they loved it, so I started making it for Lee. Or grilled cheese, she loved that too. Not very good for dogs, I know, but who cares??

I think about you and Whiskey every day, Annie...

Whiskey's Mom

03-14-2017, 11:43 AM

Really?? I thought Long Island was getting hammered.
He used to love eggs, but now won't touch them. Or peanut butter. So many things have gotten crossed off the list over the last few months, it's so hard. I see what's happening and I have to accept it, but it doesn't make it any easier. But I will make grilled cheese today -I haven't tried that yet. Thanks for all the suggestions and your kind thoughts.

DoxieMama

03-14-2017, 03:15 PM

I think about you and Whiskey every day, Annie...

Not much else to add, other than a "Me too!"

Whiskey's Mom

03-14-2017, 07:03 PM

Thanks so much guys, it means the world to me to know I have this place to come to. And to know so many of you truly care and understand what we're going through.
I'm putting a pic in his album of him in today's snowstorm.

Harley PoMMom

03-14-2017, 07:21 PM

All total, we got 16 inches of that damn white stuff :mad: And it's still flurrying a bit, hopefully it will stop soon.

Wet cat food is something Harley would eat for a while. It is so heartbreaking when they refuse to eat, I tried anything that I could think of that would get him interested to eat, including baby food, fast food, ice cream...you name it. I feel for you, sending huge loving hugs for you and Whiskey.

Whiskey's Mom

03-15-2017, 09:34 AM

We got close to 20 inches here I would say. Hard to measure with the wind and drifting. I can barely move today from shoveling.
During the day Whiskey had milk bones and had some of my cereal with blueberries of all things. :confused: he wouldn't eat his dinner at 5. Around 7 he was hanging around the kitchen so I gave him the chicken from dinner, right outta the fridge. And he ate it-cold! He keeps me guessing, my boy. So I gave him some vanilla ice cream which he loves. I had forgotten (thanks Lori, for the suggestions)
Joan, I tried grilled cheese & he wouldn't eat it. But that was yesterday, today who knows?

Joan2517

03-15-2017, 11:22 AM

We got maybe 5 inches, but with the wind, it blew into a lot of snow drifts. They were so hard that Sibbie just climbed up on them and walked around. I dug one path down the middle, but the snow was so wet and heavy, that was all I could do. They didn't seem to mind!

Doesn't like grilled cheese...hmmmnn. Does he like any cheese? My guys love ricotta. We make pasta with ricotta, which was another of Lena's favorites. (she was only picky with dogfood, she would eat just about any people food) Just mix the ricotta with the water from the pasta to make it soupy and mix it in. Very filling.

Carole Alexander

03-15-2017, 06:45 PM

Hi Annie,
Last night and earlier this morning I read your entire thread and looked at the pictures of your handsome Whiskey; your posts left me at a loss for words. You, your family and Whiskey are incredible and I so appreciate your love, kindness and tender caring for Whiskey. What a wonderful life he is having. While I know that the end is likely sooner than later, I hope that you will always remember and embrace the thousands of ways that Whiskey is enriching your lives and you are enriching his. I know that losing him will be full of pain and grief but I am certain that the grief will never erase the joy, memories, wisdom and happiness that are his gifts to you for all of your lives. You all are my model for courage and caring and I even promised Skippy that I would never yell at him again (like I did for the first time last night) because he wouldn’t eat.
Thank you for your kind note regarding Skippy; I took him off Vetoryl on Monday and did the special food run to Pet’s Mart this morning; so far Skippy likes the Blue Salmon Topper without any “bottomer” of course, but he’s eating. Purdue is stepping up bigly and called today to inquire about the boy’s well-being; I’m sure more tests will follow next Tuesday. In the meantime, I hope you and Whiskey can live in the moment. Please know I’m thinking of you, Whiskey and your wonderful family.
“Piglet noticed that even though he had a Very Small Heart, it could hold a rather large amount of Gratitude.”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh

Whiskey's Mom

03-15-2017, 09:18 PM

Wow Carole, your post brought me to tears! Thank you so much for your kind words. Sometimes I feel like I could have done more for Whiskey in the beginning of this journey, but he is still with us for a reason. I know it's so frustrating when they won't eat, but we are only human so if we lose our patience it's out of love for our pets. I served him meatloaf, chicken and salmon tonight and he refused it all. He ate the meatloaf for breakfast though. I can't force feed him and since he was out in the freezing cold playing in the snow with his buddies this afternoon, I'm trying not to worry. We start fresh in the morning and try it all over again. I hope your sweet little Skippy feels better soon and I'm glad you had success with the topper as a meal. It does feel so awesome when they actually eat, doesn't it?
Thanks again & I love the Piglet quote :)

Whiskey's Mom

03-15-2017, 09:29 PM

Hi Joan, Whiskey used to eat everything no questions asked but now not so. He will eat a bit of shredded cheddar but not much. Not pasta or rice or potatoes. The list keeps shrinking. I know his liver enzymes had been rising, and a friends dog had liver failure years ago & I do remember them desperately trying to get her to eat. So I'm afraid that is an issue in addition to the tumor. We could always tell exactly what time it was because he ate by the clock & made sure we knew it was time to eat. Now he will sleep late like a teenager and is in no hurry to eat ever. It's sad. But when he's hungry, he eats and he still drinks. We have about 10 different kinds of treats in our closet, he eats certain ones one day then won't touch them the next. So we go thru the rotation til we find the treat of the moment. Sometimes it's none of them. thanks for your suggestions, we always offer him some of whatever we're eating too, so I'll try the ricotta trick.

LaurieS

03-15-2017, 11:31 PM

I feel for you Annie, Charlotte is the same way. She used to gobble down anything, there was nothing she wouldn't eat. And now I never know what she is going to want, each day is different. I smiled when you said Whiskey loves vanilla ice cream because that was a favorite of my Golden mix, Tanner. In the end it's the only thing I could put his pills in. He passed about 3 years ago and I still miss him terribly. Your white faced boy reminds me of him so much!

I'm glad to hear he is still enjoying the snow and playing outside. It's all about quality of life. But the eating thing is so scary, today Charlotte hasn't eaten much at all. I'll be thinking of you and praying Whiskey finds something to his liking in the morning.

Laurie

molly muffin

03-16-2017, 06:56 PM

I often think that the not eating is one of the worst things to go through. You wouldn't believe all the dog food and treats I had left after molly passed. Sometimes I would do 3 runs or so up to pet stores looking for food for her. There wasn't much of anything that I wouldn't try at some point. Like, if they are eating, then you know that life still is going on and there is a chance it will go on longer. Don't eat and it's like a panic attack of what will they like, what can we do to help them. Because all we want so very much if for them to happy and as healthy as can be given the circumstances.

Blueberries works btw. If he'll eat them, it's a good treat.

Whiskey's Mom

03-16-2017, 08:03 PM

This morning I set out a smorgasbord for Whiskey. 3 plates- salmon, chicken & meatloaf. He ran & hid from me!:confused: So I gave him a Nutrish Soup Bone and he ate the whole thing really quickly. Then later my coworker was eating cheesy garlic bread & he came running & sat next to her begging, tail wagging. he ate a piece with my permission (I know-garlic, but at this point whatever) he stayed by her staring at every bite she put in her mouth but was satisfied after a few bites. He pretty much followed her around the rest of the day. He also had a peanut butter cookie. Then my husband tried giving him treats that he's refused for the past 2 weeks and he ate a lot of them. No rhyme or reason here!! Whisk was very eager to greet the customers today, which I take as a good sign, he hasnt been at work for a week so I wondered how he'd be.
I just keep telling myself, one day at a time, but it's hard.

Joan2517

03-16-2017, 10:31 PM

Go figure, garlic bread! I'm glad he had a good day, Annie.

LaurieS

03-17-2017, 02:32 AM

So glad to hear he did well with eating today! Charlotte started the day not wanting anything then by tonight she was eating everything i gave her. Its so weird and random. I never thought i would long for the ravenous hunger to return!

Laurie

LaurieS

03-22-2017, 10:43 PM

Been thinking about you and Whiskey, i hope he is doing well and eating for you.

Laurie

molly muffin

03-23-2017, 07:07 PM

I suppose it's a matter of who knows what might be appetizing at any given moment. It's hard not to let it worry you but it is what it is and if he wants something then, yep, that sounds good to me too.

So nice that he was able to come to work with you and he enjoyed it.

Whiskey's Mom

03-23-2017, 08:13 PM

Whiskey continues to be the same old pup, thank God. His diet is very "weird and random" as Laurie said, and if I wrote the things he eats on any given day, you'd all think I was nuts and probably disapprove. :eek:But it's obviously keeping him going. He made it past the one month mark the vet told me he had. In her words through her tears: "Whiskey is a ticking time bomb, I give him a month, maybe". Who knows? When he was a puppy my girls nicknamed him "Cuddles the Wonder Dog" (among other things:D) so maybe that name was appropriate. We're trying to take one day at a time, enjoying each day, but it's hard not to worry about the inevitable, wondering how, when, where something is gonna happen. He still happily greets every customer at my work, and shares a bit of everyone's lunch-if it's to his liking. Some of my co workers have had many dogs, and since Whiskey is my first I'm relying on their advice for when it's "time", and there are no signs, but I'm glad to have them to guide me too. I was really nervous during our snowstorm, because I was alone with him and afraid if something happened I wouldn't get out of the driveway, much less the ER Vet-luckily I worried for nothing-but that's just me.
Hoping for the best, and thankful for this forum, Annie and Whiskey