Newly diagnosed: advice re: diet, Anipryl?

[Mom2kdnh]

In the week or so that we've learned of Huntley's Cushings, I have read many articles at 'pet-health' type sites. I'm on information overload! My Huntley is 11 yrs old, Golden Retriever. Happy fella who loves to eat! He met all the conditions for a Chushings disgnoisis except he has lost weight, not gained. He's lost 20lbs in the past few months. Vet's tests have ruled out tumors, thank God! I hope to speak to her today to learn more specifics as to the type of Cushings we are dealing with.
My question for the group, what type of diet - one of the articles I read said to stop dry food. He has been on Merrick, no grain, salmon based kibble. Prior to now he was thriving on that. I know Raw diet is recommended for Cushing dogs, but I'm not sure I want to go that route, especially since I have 3 other dogs who would be a bit upset to not join in that feast! I purchased Nature's Variety Instinct Grain Free. He's doing fine, no 'digestive' issues as we transition him. I'm wondering if the reason there was an edict saying NO SOLID FOOD was because most commerical dry foods are high in grain & other non-essential ingredients. The Merrick is not one of those foods. So can I keep him on it? Maybe half/half with the Instinct? Or would you recommend going to 100% Instinct? For his treats, (which he LOVES) I started giving him only carrots, bannanas and apple slices. He loves watermelon, cantaloupe, etc. and as the seasons change he will get those as well.
Appreciate the advice anyone might offer! So happy to have found this group.
Thank you, Linda

[labblab]

Hello Linda, and welcome to you and Huntley! We are so glad to have you here with us, and we will be very interested to learn more about Huntley's overall medical history and his Cushing's diagnosis. When you have the chance, it'll be great if you can give us some specifics about his symptoms and the diagnostic testing. That will permit us to give you our most accurate feedback and suggestions. I will note that weight gain is the norm with Cushpups, as opposed to weight loss. However, my own Lab also had lost a fair amount of weight prior to his diagnosis, as well. So there are always exceptions to every rule. He did have the classic ravenous appetite, but we never fed him any extra treats or scraps, so I've always just supposed that the elevated steroids were somehow increasing his metabolism rate.

Anyway, getting to your main question...As I'm sure you're aware, there are a lot of folks who have very strong opinions about the best foods to feed dogs. Just recently, we've had several folks join us who have told us that they've read that raw diets are best for Cushpups, but I do not know where that info is coming from. I am unaware of any documented scientific studies that have established that any single type of feeding choice is better or worse for all dogs with Cushing's. Such studies may be out there, but I've not yet come across them. Of course, people do share their opinions and anecdotal experiences on the internet, though, and for what it's worth, here's mine.

In honesty, I can't say that during my decade spent on Cushing's forums, I have felt as though any particular style seems more suitable or more helpful for Cushpups. I am not a fan of raw feeding myself, but we do have some folks who feed raw food. Other folks feed the whole range of commercial wet, commercial dry, and homecooked. We have seen dogs who have done very well on each type of food, and dogs who have had problems on each type of food. So my personal, nonscientific opinion is that there is not any single choice that is generally better or worse -- it all comes down to each individual dog's GI system and constellation of health issues.

The general recommendation I do often make is to serve a food that has a moderate level of good quality protein, and also lower levels of fat. Cushings can affect the kidneys in such a way that protein gets spilled into the urine. If a dog experiences significant urinary protein loss, then it's probably best not to include high levels of protein in the diet. The rationale for the lower fat is due to the fact that Cushpups may have a higher vulnerability for developing pancreatitis, and higher fat diets may heighten this risk for some dogs. But as I say, these are just general recommendations. So if Huntley was thriving on his previous dry food, I honestly would see no reason to make a change now.

Also, here's one big cautionary note: if you are planning to start giving him medication to treat his Cushing's, this is a bad time to make a feeding change of any type. Two of the key signals of possible medication overdose is the onset of vomiting or diarrhea, so you want to limit any other variables that could also cause these types of problems at the same time that you launch into treatment. Don't introduce new foods or new treats right now unless you absolutely need to. So if you want to transition him to a different food, I'd follow through and make sure he's stable on it before starting Cushing's meds. Or, in the alternative, I'd return him to the Merrick for the time being, especially since he's been doing well on it. Once he's established on the medication, you can then revisit the dietary change if you're still interested in doing so.

Marianne

[Mom2kdnh]

Thank you Marianne, I really appreciate the information & your experience with this disease. After I speak to Vet today I will post the specifics of his diagnosis. Meanwhile he is a happy boy hanging out with his bros!

Regards,
Linda

[molly muffin]

Hi Linda and welcome to the forum.

I can't really add much to what Marianne has already said, moderate protein and lower fat usually works no matter what "kind" it is, everyone seems to have their preferences to that, but as Marianne said, don't start a diet change and medication at the same time.

[Renee]

My personal opinion is that while diet can be hugely important to the overall health and well being of your pet -- there simply is no diet that can or will reduce / eliminate / cure / prevent something like cushings. There are changes you can make, such as reducing the fat, but in reality, you just need to find what works for you and your dog and go from there.

Welcome!

[Mom2kdnh]

Hi, more specifics on my Huntley; his Cortisol Serial 2 (ACTH) results were high - Sample 1, pre Lysodren was 6.3 and his Sample 2, post was 49.7, way off the charts! So this number combined with the 20lb weight loss are the most concerns. His blood pressure was high at the time of testing but since starting him on Enalapril (10mg) 7 days ago, he appears more comfortable.
Vet said to add more food to his meals, no problem. My Vet did say he can have either or both the dry or wet foods so I give him some of both & he gobbles them up! His access to water is constant & since I am home,retired, he can go in & out to the fenced yard anytime he needs. His demeanor is good, he's a Golden...always been a love-bug, Mommy's boy.
We considering Vetoryl however I've read that Ginko can be used in conjunction with Anipryl. (Ginkgo said to reduce corticosterone secretion). Going to speak with someone today who is an expert in the alternative meds. I know we need to introduce the Vetoryl first & see how it performs before adding any homeopathic treatments.
So that's my update. Greatly appreciate any advice from those of you who have dealt with this disease in their furbabies.

[molly muffin]

How did the appt yesterday go in regards to the alternative meds.

hmm, interesting, I'm not sure that I can remember anyone trying the Ginkgo route to reduce cortisol. I guess the question would be whether or not it would reduce it enough. That is the same with melatonine, it will reduce some but never enough if the cortisol is truly high.

We use vetroyl My dog is currently 16.8 lbs and we have worked our way up from starting at 8mg a day to 24mg a day with good control. In hind sight I probably should have started at 16mg, but I was concerned about reaction so didn't do that.

[Mom2kdnh]

Researching medication options; wondering if anyone has experience with Anipryl - this med allows the use of Ginko along with it; the Ginko reduces corticosterone secretion. ( If I sound like I know what I'm talking about, I don't, just cobbling together information from many articles I've read - hence the danger of misinformation!) Visiting our vet tomorrow, appreciate any info if you are familiar with this med.

thank you,
Linda & Huntley

[labblab]

Hi again! You'll see that I've merged your new question into your original thread about Huntley. We like to keep all posts about any individual dog consolidated in one single thread. This way, it's much easier to follow the dog's history/experience and also to avoid duplication of info. But since you are specifically wanting to know more about Anipryl, I've edited your thread title to reflect your new question.

We have had a few members for whom Anipryl has provided symptom relief for their dogs. However, cumulative research over time has shown that it is helpful for only a small percentage of dogs who suffer from tumors in a particular location in the pituitary gland. If there are reasons why either trilostane or Lysodren are not good treatment options for a dog, then Anipryl can be an alternative choice in the hope that it may work. However, generally it is no longer offered out as a front-line choice by vets who are experienced with Cushing's treatment because trilostane and Lysodren have been proven to be much more universally effective.

If your only reason for considering Anipryl is just because you can also give ginkgo, too, I have to ask: what is the advantage of ginkgo over the proven alternatives? Trilostane and Lysodren both effectively lower cortisol into therapeutic ranges all on their own -- they don't need the addition of another supplement. So I am puzzled as to the appeal that ginkgo is holding for you? Does it have some other benefit besides a possible effect on cortisol? If it were me, I would not want to sacrifice the known effect of the other drugs for the "question mark" of ginkgo unless there is some particular advantage that ginkgo offers.

Marianne

[tyry]

Hi Linda,

I wanted to let you know that my dog was one of the rare ones that also lost weight. Once we put her on Vetoryl, her weight went right back to normal. We also tried doing holistic things without the meds and I will never do that again, so it's good to hear that you are willing to try Vetoryl. We started very low and slow and that worked well for our dog.

I'm also someone that recently started switching Jen's (my dog) food. She's been on kibble (Taste of the Wild) and we only switched her as she has a weird cough that now seems to get worse on kibble, otherwise I would have left her on it. In the last couple of weeks I've learned that some raw (which I thought was good) really has too much fat in it. At this moment we've got her on Honest Kitchen and we'll see how she does on that.

[Mom2kdnh]

Thank you everyone! Such great help, guidance. I'm so appreciative. We go to Vet in about an hour & I feel more confident with using the Vetoryl. I feel like the Vet knows some of the disease but the folks posting here have lived it and have a wealth of knowledge & experience to share.
Will update when we return! THANK YOU!!

[molly muffin]

Okay so you've been to the vet, what did they have to say? How did that go?