New cushings mom

[onlyg]

My beautiful 12yr old baby Maggie (Boston Terrier) has just been diagnosed with cushings. Started today on low dose of Vetoryl, 10mg a day since I am so nervous about it (she weighs 23lbs). She first started showing symptoms in Oct. 2015. I tried the holistic approach but she just got progressively worse. Once the horrible CC started I knew I had to do something more. I was previously giving her Melatonin and HMR lignans. I feel they helped her some. Is anyone using these along with the Vetoryl?

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Maggie! She sure is a pretty girl! Her starting Vetoryl dose is a bit lower than what Dechra recommends which is 1mg per pound, which is good.

Could you tell us more about Maggie and share some of her medical history with us? We ask a ton of questions and then based on your answers it enables us to give you our best possible feedback, ok? So here goes some questions from me!

Did her CC get diagnosed with a biopsy? What symptoms did/does Maggie display that led you or the vet to test for Cushing's in the first place? Could you get copies of all tests that were done on Maggie and post those results here? With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. What diagnostic tests were performed on Maggie, and could you post those results too? Does Maggie have the pituitary or adrenal form of Cushing's? Is Maggie taking any other herbs/supplements/medications? Does she have any other underlying illness? Did the vet tell you that Vetoryl has to be given with a meal and that the monitoring ACTH stimulation tests have to be performed 4-6 hours post pill? Is an ACTH stimulation test scheduled in 10-14 days to have her cortisol checked?

That CC is a bugger to get under control and I just want to warn you that it gets worse before it get better. We have seen that getting and keeping a dog's cortisol <=5ug/dl seems to be where that CC is better managed. Renee is our resident CC expert and I'm sure she'll be along soon. In the mean time I'll provide you a link to her thread: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5908

Melatonin with the lignans is the treatment used for Atypical Cushing's which means that a dog's cortisol is normal but one or other adrenal sex hormones are elevated. Has Maggie been taking this treatment for a while? If so, than it probably will not do any harm to continue with it especially if she is getting some comfort with it. The melatonin had a calming effect on my Harley.

Gosh I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but so glad you found us, and we will help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[onlyg]

So prior to this, Maggie was a happy go lucky Boston. She loved to run around with her brother Magoo (also a boston, 13) She had skin allergies that we battled from time to time but that was about it. Last summer I started noticing she was having a little trouble with her back legs. Being 12, I figured her age was catching up to her. Then I noticed her belly getting bigger, but she was always a little plump so I also chalked it up to age. Then started the excessive drinking, which I really didn’t notice until she had her first accident in the house. I Knew something was wrong right then. She NEVER had an accident in the house. I took her to the vet and he found that she had a UTI and also took blood to make sure she wasn’t diabetic. He also told me he suspected she could have Cushings but that extensive testing would need to be done. I immediately ran home and read everything I could on the disease. After the initial blood and urine tests came back and both said possible Cushings, I was devastated! I had lost my husband a few years ago to cancer and couldn’t stand the thought of treating her with drugs that were going to make her suffer till the end. So I made the decision to forego further testing and start trying to treat her holistically. I read many stories of people who had managed the disease with supplements and gave their pets quality of life for the few years they had left. I decided to try Melatonin, Lignans and Adrenal harmony drops. She seemed to be doing well, not drastically better but definitely not worse and she didn’t have hardly any accidents in the house so I took that as a good sign. This was in Oct. But then like overnight, she seemed to get worse. By the new year, the skin on her back became like a solid mass, thick and very dry. Then she started losing her hair. Her back legs go so weak, she would fall sometimes when she got up. I looked up the symptoms of her skin and realized it was CC and that she was just not going to get better unless I did something more drastic. I felt like I failed her because of my fears. So I took her back to the vet and told him I was ready to do whatever it took to get her better. He started with the low dose dex test which was inconclusive. 6.2ug/dl – 4.1ug/dl – 4.7ug/dl. He then scheduled her for an ultrasound and they found she had pituitary dependent Cushings. I already read about all the different treatments and we both decided that Vetoryl would be the way to go. He said he would start her on 10mg a day since I am so nervous. I started this morning right after she ate her breakfast and will do the same every day. She has her first ACTH stim test scheduled for day 12. (2/25/16) I am beside myself. I have not let her out of my sight all day. My biggest worry is that I have to go back to work on Tuesday and won’t be home with her all day. As far as the CC is concerned, it is just very dry and is not cracking or bleeding at all. My vet says I should just keep an eye on it and not do anything yet. Not sure if I can live with that but I need to read more before I consult with him again. I read someone had great results bathing her dog with Neutrogena Tgel. Has anyone else heard of this? Anyway, I worry about the effects on her other organs. That’s why I was inquiring about supplements. I know the melatonin helped her sleep at night and I read great things about the lignans. I feel maybe that’s why the CC hasn’t gotten real bad. I just don’t know if it’s ok to still give them to her since I started the Vetoryl. My vet isn’t very knowledgeable about supplements or doesn’t believe in them. He wasn’t happy that I went that route in the first place. I want to say thank you all in advance. Finding this forum is the best thing that has happened in all this. I felt so lost until I started reading all your stories. I was hesitant to actually write anything but after I gave her the first dose this morning, I felt like I couldn’t do it alone. Even Magoo, my other boston baby, seems as depressed as I am over the whole thing. Thanks for listening!

[tank&kat]

Hi

My dog has been on vetoryl for 7 months with no problems. Those first few days he was on the drug are forever etched in my memory. I know everything feels like a complete disaster right now, especially since you can't go the holistic route that you intended. The reason the vet and I are against holistic treatment for Cushing's is simply because there are no studies to date that show these treatments are effective at lowering cortisol. I have researched this topic extensively. Being on a limited income, I had hoped for a different outcome. It hasn't been easy.

I hope you can find some solace in the fact that little Maggie is on a considerably low dose. The chance of her having an adverse reaction is slim. You are doing everything right by monitoring her consistently. I did the same with my boy. I didn't leave my house for a full week.

Is Maggie taking any type of supplement for her back leg/joints such as cosequin? I don't see any harm in continuing the melatonin. Many people here use it. Vetoryl doesn't seem to have an effect on CC. I'm not sure why, maybe someone with more experience can explain why and offer helpful solutions.

You did not fail her. Most vets will tell you that 4 months of untreated Cushing's will not do any severe damage. This disease progresses slowly and usually takes years before complications occur. I felt guilty for a long time because I knew my dog had Cushing's months before the vet did. Instead of listening to my instincts, I chose to listen to her when she said to wait and see if the ALKP decreases, instead of doing further testing. I decided to research everything I possibly could about this disease so I could help other pet owners advocate for their dogs. You will learn so much here.

~Katherine

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi
Vetoryl doesn't seem to have an effect on CC. I'm not sure why, maybe someone with more experience can explain why and offer helpful solutions.



We do have members, such as Renee, that do have dogs with CC and are having success with Vetoryl. The main thing is getting that cortisol at 5 ug/dl or lower. Like I mentioned, that CC will take a bit of time to improve, don't give up and unfortunately this disease does take patience to treat...which I lack :eek::o

[onlyg]

Thank you so much for your words of advice and support!!! I know I'm in for a long road and I will try my hardest to be patient. I just don't want my baby to suffer. She has always been happy go lucky and stoic, even when she had her bad skin allergies.The vet always commented on what a trooper she was. I hate seeing her so down. I hope that we get a little progress soon. I miss the sparkle in her eyes! Also, I haven't seen a lot written about the muscle weakness. I see a lot of dogs have it but nothing about whether it goes away when the medicine gets them stable. Her back legs are so weak. Will they get better and is there something I can give her to help them get stronger? As far as the CC is concerned, I am going to research everything I can on it. I have found many sites about it and some people have had some good experience getting a handle on it. I will leave no stone unturned until I find something that helps. So far, she's had no bleeding or cracking so I need to find something before it gets really bad.

[Renee]

Hi
Vetoryl doesn't seem to have an effect on CC. I'm not sure why, maybe someone with more experience can explain why and offer helpful solutions.
~Katherine

Hi Kat, this statement is just not true.

What is true is that we have some documented cases on this board, in the past, where people have not had success controlling CC when using vetoryl. With what we know now, there are two reasons for this. First is that for some dogs, vetoryl just does not work in general. Secondly, (and I believe this to be the bigger reason) is that unlike lysodren, the acceptable range of control with vetoryl usage is much higher, at 9.0 ug/dl. What we know about CC is that the post cortisol, regardless of control over other symptoms, simply needs to get below 5.0 ug/dl and stay in that lower range long-term. If a dog with CC stabilizes on vetoryl at a post cortisol higher than 5.0 ug/dl, then they may think they have controlled cushings, but not see resolution of the CC, due to the cortisol still being to high to significantly impact the CC.

My pug Tobey has not had the very worst CC ever, but she did have it fairly bad, and likely one of the worse cases on this site. Her lesions are documented somewhat in my album. Before it was all said and done, she had lesions from the top of her head down to her tail. It took 6+ months to heal, and only when I got her cortisol low enough. Time and again, I have seen it reoccur when she's rebounded higher than 5.0 ug/dl. In fact, she has a small active lesion now, which I think may be to due being off her meds for 2-3 weeks in December.

Moving on to dear Maggie - it sounds like her CC has not erupted terribly and I do hope you have caught it early enough to head it off before it gets worse. My personal experience, through trial and error, has been that keeping it dry and bacteria free is most important while you wait for her cortisol to come down. If the lesions are not cracked, open, bleeding, or angry, then you are very lucky indeed. If any of the above happens, best to run a course of abx, since the lesions themselves are prone to secondary infection. Do not put any creams on the sores, especially not a steroid cream! I used tea compresses to soothe and moisten / loosen some of the harder patches so they could come off. I also dabbed with betadine when they started to dry up a bit. Sadly, CC does usually get worse before it gets better, but you may have caught it early enough that you won't experience that too much. I personally never bathed my pug during the bad part, but some people have used medicated baths to help. That's a personal choice. You may see some say that DMSO works. I'll leave that up to you. It can't hurt, but I found it to be a complete waste of time. The most important thing I can tell you is that there is nothing you will find to 'cure' the CC, other than to bring her cortisol down. There is nothing else that can cure it. Do not get too wrapped up in trying to find a cream, ointment, shampoo, etc that you forget your number one enemy - cortisol.

[tank&kat]

Excessive levels of cortisol act as a very strong steroidal anti-inflammatory and once that cortisol is reduced with effective treatment, the pain of arthritis is unmasked. This can be debilitating for some dogs. My dog's back end weakness has worsened but I am not sure of the exact cause. He will most likely have an xray to rule out more serious hip/spine issues before I start any type of pain management.

I have a trooper just like your girl, except he's a boy. He does not show that he is in any type of pain, ever. I'm thinking now that he may have been suffering more than I thought for the past few months, even though he didn't show it.

That sparkle you mentioned...my boy got his back after a month of treatment. It was such a bittersweet moment when I realized just how much energy this disease sucked out of him. Here he was running in the park for over a half hour without needing to plop down from exhaustion. When before, he could only run 5 minutes tops. I was in a state of shock for the rest of that day. The vet happened to call later that day to see how he was doing and I started sobbing like a small child. I honestly didn't think he was going to make it through the summer (this was back in July). He still has plenty of energy and most days I can't even keep up with him.

~Katherine

[onlyg]

Thank you so much Katherine. The story you told me about your boy's sparkle coming back literally brought tears to my eyes. I hope one day soon I can tell you the same!! And thank you Renee. I will keep that in mind. I also find comfort in your story as well. The knowledge and advice from all of you is priceless. I may actually get some sleep tonight. :)

[tank&kat]

What is true is that we have some documented cases on this board, in the past, where people have not had success controlling CC when using vetoryl. With what we know now, there are two reasons for this. First is that for some dogs, vetoryl just does not work in general. Secondly, (and I believe this to be the bigger reason) is that unlike lysodren, the acceptable range of control with vetoryl usage is much higher, at 9.0 ug/dl. What we know about CC is that the post cortisol, regardless of control over other symptoms, simply needs to get below 5.0 ug/dl and stay in that lower range long-term. If a dog with CC stabilizes on vetoryl at a post cortisol higher than 5.0 ug/dl, then they may think they have controlled cushings, but not see resolution of the CC, due to the cortisol still being to high to significantly impact the CC.

Rene, I appreciate you taking the time to explain that information. I wasn't aware of the cortisol needing to be <5. I will certainly share this from now on.

[onlyg]

So I am on day 4 of Vetoryl treatment (10mg x1day) and I think she is tolerating it well. My problem is her lethargy is so worrisome to me. She does get up and engage when I feed her and give her treats, but then she just goes right back to her bed and goes to sleep. I know this is probably normal for the beginning but I feel like I should be doing something to help her through this. Can anyone recommend a multi vitamin or supplement I can give her with the Vetoryl? I see people use them but no specific brands are mentioned. I'd rather give her something other people have used successfully then give her anything that might make her sick or interfere with the Vetoryl. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to be patient and not panic too much!

[tank&kat]

How much is she sleeping compared to before meds?

[judymaggie]

Hi! It is possible that Maggie is feeling sluggish due to her cortisol dropping. Things should even out as she gets adjusted to the lower levels. If all else is good (peeing, pooping, eating), I would suggest you not add anything new to her regimen at this time. You don't want to mask what effect the Vetoryl is having. Be sure to continue keeping a close eye on her and ask about any concerns.

[onlyg]

She is sleeping way more than before I started the Vetoryl, but she is eating, peeing and pooping regularly. She has been eating a little less, but her thirst is still fierce. She isn't catatonic, but she seems dazed. It's breaking my heart and I just don't want to miss anything. She is on such a low dose that I doubt she's dropping to low. I don't know how I'm going to survive another week before her first testing!!:(

[tank&kat]

I don't think it's anything to worry about as long as it doesn't continue through next week. If it helps, you can always call the vet for reassurance.

[Joan2517]

My Lena was like this too...dazed, confused and not herself at all, to the point where I started questioning whether I was doing the right thing and was soooo close to stopping the Vetoryl.

She has just in the past week or so, started acting like her old self. She still gets very tired, but has stayed up longer and is beginning to do some of the things she did before, including wanting to be in my lap again, which she wouldn't do for so long because she was too hot. Now she is even asking to be picked up and sleeping on me. As soon as she does that, no matter what I'm doing or who else is on my lap, I free up just for her!

We started 10mg of Vetoryl in December, upped it to 20, then to 30 in January. She will be on the 30mg, 30 days this Saturday.

I hope this gives you some peace of mind....

Joan

[onlyg]

Thank you. That does help!! It was killing me that she didn't want to lay on me or even on the couch. Dazed and confused is exactly right. I'm only on day 4 so I have a ways to go. It helps to know that this may be normal. I had to go back to work today so I'm even more neurotic! I actually asked my friends daughter to go by the house and check on her. She has a doggie door but I need to know she's still ok. I am actually considering a doggy cam so I can check on her while I'm at work. I envy all the mom's that can stay home with their babies. Unfortunately, I can't. Not to mention I may need a 2nd job to afford the med and tests! I just didn't expect to see a change so soon. :(

[onlyg]

Thank you all for listening to my rants and taking the time to give me encouragement. I truly appreciate the support!!

[Joan2517]

That's exactly how I feel...it kills me to leave her alone (even though she's got three other dogs home with her. I know she feels better when I'm there. Right about now is when I'm watching the clock and counting down the minutes to get home to her AND THEY JUST DRAG!!

The vet bills are killing me too. I've been late paying other bills for the first time in years. Thank God my vet takes post-dated checks(not that I think I'll have the money by the date written on them anyway!), but it gives me some more time to figure out how to find the money.

[onlyg]

I know about counting the minutes. It's amazing I got anything done at work today at all! She is home with her brother who is a 13 year old Boston, and TG, old but healthy! I only wish he could call me with updates from time to time. :D

[Joan2517]

I know...I always tell my big boy, Gable, who is a lab mix, to take care of his brother, a puggle, and his little sisters Doree our Chihuahua, and especially Lena...so far he's been and excellent caretaker!

[onlyg]

Ok, so the good news is I came home and Maggie greeted me at the door. I was so relieved!! Now the not so good news. Her CC is starting to look really red and angry. She is rolling around on her blanket trying to scratch it. She feels very warm and her underside is really pink. Something I would have thought was a good thing but now not so sure. She ate after a bit of coaxing then barely finished. Again, not sure if that's a good thing. So my question is should any of this be a concern and is there anything I can do to help the itchiness? She finally just conked out so I would like to run out to get her something if anyone has any suggestions. Sorry, it's only day 4 and I'm such a wreck! Also picking up a web cam when I run out since I can't spend another day at work wondering if she is okay or if she needs me. (I know, so pathetic!!)
Thanks again everyone for giving me a place to vent and good advice!! I will let you know when I start selling everything I own on ebay to afford this. Maybe you can all find some good deals!! ;)

[tank&kat]

That's exactly how I feel...it kills me to leave her alone (even though she's got three other dogs home with her. I know she feels better when I'm there. Right about now is when I'm watching the clock and counting down the minutes to get home to her AND THEY JUST DRAG!!

The vet bills are killing me too. I've been late paying other bills for the first time in years. Thank God my vet takes post-dated checks(not that I think I'll have the money by the date written on them anyway!), but it gives me some more time to figure out how to find the money.

I do the post dated checks also lol. Somehow it always manages to work itself out.

[Joan2517]

I would love to get a webcam so I could be sure she's okay! I have no idea what I did or didn't do at work today. I hate being away from her~

[molly muffin]

Remember that the dreaded cc, Always gets worse before it gets better. Those calcium deposits have to break through the skin and come out and that makes them red, then open sores, weepy and finally clearing up. It's a cycle that those who have gone through it say takes months and months, I've hard 6 months some places, so don't despair yet. Keep it clean and dry, an make sure you have an antibiotic spray for when it gets open, as you don't want any infections to get into it.

She did greet you at the door! That's is a good thing and a positive for the day!!

[onlyg]

Thank you! It did my my day until I saw her back! Do I have to get the spray from a vet? Is there anything I can get from the drugstore in the meantime? I'd hate for her to rub it raw before I can get to the vet tomorrow. I know patience is needed for CC but I hate to see her so uncomfortable. Also, would a 100% white cotton tshirt help her from getting it infected? I worry also that her brother might lick it. When she is not well, he likes to lick her face to comfort her. Now I see him trying to sniff her back. I would hate to see him start liking that! Not sure if I should be covering her with a tshirt or if it would be worse covered.

[molly muffin]

Of course my mind does a blank, but no you don't have to get an antibiotic spray from the vet. I know you can order them like TrizCHLOR spray, (that one is from Dechra, also makers of vetroyl) I know there are others, Vetericyn is another I can think of. Yes a tshirt would work, we have had other members use that method.
I don't think you have to run out and get some antibiotic spray tonight, this is a just a very generalized, good things to have on hand for cc. The t-shirt would probably work fine to keep her from bothering it. Cut away any hair around a sore, so it doesn't get matted, that sort of thing.

[onlyg]

Thank you!!!!!

[Renee]

A shirt is good to cover her back.

Antibiotic spray is also good for preventative measures -- but, you may consider a course of oral abx as well. If they are breaking open and weeping / sore, then they are at their most vulnerable for infection. I opted for a course of abx every few months with Tobey. I never used antibiotic spray, but did use betadine for a topical.

Also, for what its worth, my other pugs NEVER licked Tobey's CC lesions. If they got near enough to sniff them, they backed away like she had leprosy, lol. It's like they knew those lesions were bad. We had another boston on this board, Cosmo (RIP), whose brother wouldn't come near his CC either.

[onlyg]

Thank you! Magoo doesn't treat her like a leopard but you're right, he hasn't tried to lick it. Just sniffs her a lot. He seems to feel really bad for her as well and he actually goes to where she is laying down and checks her from time to time. Such a sweet boy!! I feel bad because he is a real Momma's boy and I haven't been giving him the usual amount of pampering since Maggie has gotten so sick. She was always independent so he had me to himself a lot. Now she is more needy and I think he feels a little neglected. :( I broke down last night and put a little Mupirocin on the spots that looked the worst. (I read somewhere that somebody else used this) They didn't look so angry this morning. I finally started an album with her test results and some pictures of her in better times as well as her dreaded CC. If any of you have a second to look at the test results, I would appreciate any input. There is mention of a liver issue in the ultrasound that I don't really understand and would appreciate some feedback before I call the vet freaking out. I just got the report this morning and he never mentioned the liver when we met after to discuss the confirmation of Cushings. You are all so knowledgeable I know you will be straight and let me know if I should be concerned. Thank you in advance for all of your help!!!! I also broke down and bought a webcam last night so I could have some piece of mind while I was at work. Pretty much, all she has done all morning is sleep, beside a potty break. Hasn't rubbed her back at all. That makes me feel a little better.

[onlyg]

I have 2 questions whenever anybody that has time to chime in. Firstly, Maggie is on day 6 of Vetoryl. Overall, I think she is doing well. Even though the dose is very low, 10mg a day (she weighs 23lbs) she is definately drinking less, eating more normal and not panting. She sleeps a lot but still jumps up to follow me from room to room. Even the CC has seemed to just stay as is for now. Dry and crunchy. The problem is her back legs are still so weak. She has such a hard time walking, I think she is so tired just from the effort. I know it's only been a week but how long until she starts getting strength back? It breaks my heart to see her struggle so hard to stay standing. The 2nd question is I see a lot of posts about pancreatitus becoming an issue. I am not a great cook and wouldn't even know where to begin cooking for my dogs so I have always given them kibble. I feed them grain free Wellness because I read that the higher protein content would help her leg issues. Now on this forum I read a few threads that said she should be on low fat, low protein because of the cushings. I'm very confused and would appreciate some suggestions.I really want to do the best for her all the way around. I don't want to create other problems because I'm not feeding her right. Thanks in advance.

[Harley PoMMom]

Unfortunately it generally takes months to see improvement with the rear end weakness.

Dog's with Cushing's are prone to get pancreatitis and if this would happen there are more than a few of us that have dealt with this in our dog so we will be very happy to help you IF Maggie would develop pancreatitis. When my Harley was diagnosed with pancreatitis I had a diet formulated for him by Monica Segal who is certified in Animal Health Care.

In general, cushdogs should be fed a high quality moderate protein diet. A low-fat diet would probably be needed if the cushdog's cholesterol and triglycerides are high, which is common with our cushdogs.

Hope this helps.

Hugs, Lori

[onlyg]

Thank you!! It does help. I am going to look into food with a little less protein.

[labblab]

One cautionary note -- I would not make any changes in Maggie's food until she is fully stabilized on her Vetoryl. That means I'd wait for a month or two. Since GI upset is one of the symptoms that makes you worry about low cortisol, it's best not to alter food at the same time that she is adjusting to the med. The less variables you are dealing with right now, the better. :D

[onlyg]

Thank you!! I didn't think about that. So far she hasnt had any GI problems so youre right I shouldnt chance it. I'm so nervous about all this I am overthinking everythijg! I just want my baby girl to have the best chance possible.

[hermine]

I'm a new mom, too. Could someone tell me what CC is?

[tank&kat]

I definitely agree with Marianne. Best to wait a few weeks.

[onlyg]

I'm a new mom, too. Could someone tell me what CC is?
It stands for calcinosis cutis. If you put that in the search bar you will find many threads explaining exactly what it is and different ideas on how to treat it. I am very new to this so I don't know enough to explain it. If you put it in the title of your thread, many knowledgeable people will chime in. I learned a lot from this forum.

[molly muffin]

hermine, calcinosis cutis is tiny hard calcium deposits that come up through the skin causing sores. The calcium deposits are almost always due to high cortisol levels and they can be a real bugger to get rid of and take the longest amount of time. Not ever dog develops these but some do.

[kaibosmom]

Hi. I haven't read every page, but I can chime in with Renee. Trilostane can be helpful with CC. Although, sometimes I question whether or not Kaibo truly had CC…but I guess there is no denying a biopsy that identified the CC. So…I guess I should just say that I was lucky or we caught it early enough and that Kaibo responded well to the trilostane treatment, that it didn't become a huge issue and there was no further CC areas beside his elbow (which is a rare place to see CC so I was told). That area turned into a hygroma which became the larger issue for us to be honest. At any rate, with the help of trilostane, Dog Leggs for the hygroma, and traditional chinese medicine, we have kept the CC at bay. Renee was a huge help to me when I was told Kaibo had CC! Good luck.

Nikki

[tank&kat]

Just wanted to check up on Maggie and see how she is doing. The first month is always the most challenging. How are you holding up? Only have a moment but wanted to add that when you change her diet, definitely find something with low fat, <10-12 % is ideal. You don't want high protein. The normal amount is fine.

~Katherine

[onlyg]

Thank you for asking, Katherine! I think Maggie is doing well. She sleeps a lot but seems comfortable. No panting and her eating and drinking have slowed way down. Today is day 10 and I'm not sure what to think because she is on such a low dose but I think she's better. Her CC's all over her back but still dry and crunchy. Started to look a little angry one day, but I bought the Trizchlor spray and used it on her and now it's back to dry. She tries to play a little but her poor little back legs just don't let her get far. It breaks my heart to see how hard it is for her just to walk to the grass to do her business and make it back inside. She still insists on following me around the house, but by the time she makes it to the room I'm in, I'm usually on my way to another. I try to resist carrying her around since I don't want her to lose all the muscle in her legs, but it's so hard to see her struggle. I guess patience is the name of the game with this disease and I wish I had more. I am anxious for Thursday when she has her first ACTH test. That should give me some answers. Fingers crossed!! I am so glad you finally got good news about Tank!! Did they give you something for the arthritis or are they just watching because it is mild?

[tank&kat]

Tank has been on deramaxx for 3 days. So far, no improvement but it's still early. I'm mostly hoping this will help him get up easier after periods of rest. He still follows me around the house...everywhere I go. I've slowed down a bit so he won't think he is the one slowing down lol.

I'm hoping Maggie's cc improves. The pics look awful, poor girl.


~Katherine

[molly muffin]

Hope the ACTH comes back just where it needs to be. Crossing fingers.

It is certainly hard on us to see them slowing down. Molly has slowed down a lot too in the last 2 years, but she still has bursts of energy that astound me sometimes. They seem to come out of the blue. I'll be thinking about how she is sleeping more or something and the next thing I know she is bouncing down the sidewalk on her walkies. Some days are slow, but others she just goes and goes. They are so funny when they do that too, she always looks back like hey are you coming too? :) :)

[onlyg]

So Maggie had her first ACTH test on Friday, 14 days after starting Vetoryl 10mg daily. (She is 22lbs). I just got the results and if I am reading correctly her results are as follows:
Pre 4.0 ug/dl 1.0-5.0 RE:
Post 6.6 ug/dl
I uploaded the actual test results in her album in case I am reading it wrong. The doctor said it was great and not to change anything with the dosing. I should be happy, but I'm a little shocked. Could she be doing so well in such a short period of time with such a little dose? Her symptoms as far as water consumption and eating have definitely subsided. She is actually eating much less than before Cushings which actually worries me a little. She is also a little more energetic than when she first started the meds but the CC is raging. She has it all over her back and now coming through on her shoulders. Does this have to run it's course despite her levels being okay or should her levels be even lower to control this. Also, her leg weakness isn't any better either. I know it's a very short period of time so I may just be expecting too much too soon. I want to be happy and optimistic about the results but don't want to miss anything. If somebody has a second to look at the results, I would appreciate any input you could give me. Thank you!!

[judymaggie]

Hi! Those are great numbers. As you may have read already, cortisol often continues to decline as time goes on and you may see lower numbers at the 30 day ACTH. It is good that you have seen some symptom control already and that is not unusual, particularly with regard to water and food. As has been said in previous posts by those familiar with CC, the goal is to get the post below 5.0 in order to get better control. The leg weakness may lower over time but may remain to some degree, especially if arthritis is a factor. Lowering the cortisol does bring arthritis to the forefront.

Keep up the good work -- you are being a great Mom!

[DoxieMama]

Hi -

I'm also new to the site, pending confirmation of diagnosis for my little guy. Maggie is adorable! I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your sharing how things are going, including (especially) all your questions and fears. Because then I will know that I'm not alone in my worries and concerns, and seeing how Maggie does may help me with my little guy.

Sounds like things are going well, so far. That's great news!

Shana

[onlyg]

Thank you!! I wanted to feel good about the numbers but wasn't sure. :) Another question though, if she is doing well with the meds, is there something I can give her to help with her legs? I am doing everything I can to manage the CC but the leg problem is a big issue. It seems more like muscle atrophy. She practically drags one leg. Breaks my heart! My vet is more concerned with getting the Cushings under control of course, but I feel like I should be helping her get mobility back now before it gets worse. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[onlyg]

Thank you Shana. I know exactly how you feel. I read everything everyone else posts trying to get answers. The people on this forum are so knowledgeable and I gain so much more from reading then I get from my vet. You are in great hands here. Good luck with your beautiful Visuddha. I know you will find a lot of comfort and guidance from this forum!!

[Renee]

Those numbers are really, really good. Do not change the dose. If she dropped this far after only 14 days, then I would guess she may drop just a bit further over the next few weeks. Test again in 2-4 weeks and see where she's at. She may rebound, and indeed need an increase, or she could continue drifting down into range and stay right where she's at. It's too soon to make a change.

The dreaded CC will definitely get worse before it gets better. All those deposits have to work their way up and out of the skin. You'll know things are improving when they start to dry up and aren't so raw / angry. The first lesions my girl had were very raw, open, weepy, and just sore. Almost like someone had burned her and then peeled away the skin. As she started healing, the lesions got drier and less angry. That is when things started looking up. It took over 6 months for the lesions to heal and subside. Patience. Also, run some abx right now, while they are spreading. They are very susceptible to secondary infection during this stage.

[onlyg]

My vet wasn't keen on giving her antibiotics right now. He said they weren't infected. I have the Trizchlor spray that I use when any of the areas start to look red or oozy. I also have Mupirocin I alternate with. Do you think that's enough? I do have a prescription for Clavamox that has refills. (she's had 2 uti's) Should I give her a round as a precaution? I can feel the more bumps under areas where she hasn't lost hair yet, which there isn't a lot of left. :( My biggest fear is it reaching her head and neck area which hasn't been affected yet.

[Renee]

Well, I don't want to advise against your vet, so I would defer to him on the abx. Just watch them close, as I know you are, and if in doubt, ask him to run the abx anyway. It can't hurt.

Unfortunately, those bumps under the skin may indeed work their way out. My girl's CC spread from the top of her head down to her tail. The lesions were never on her underside, just isolated all along the spine, going in both directions. She still has many bumps I can feel under the skin which have not bust through. What is crazy is that in both her xrays and her CT, you can literally see the deposits inside her body. Before we knew she had CC, my vet thought she had kidney stones. Turns out (confirmed on CT), those stones are actually internal CC deposits. She just went through a bunch of xrays last week (super sick, long story), and I could see at least five CC under her skin along the spine still.

I wish it was better news .... but, know this - you and your girl can and will get through this. There is light on the other side of the tunnel with CC. It takes patience and perseverance, but it can be overcome.

[onlyg]

Thank you for the encouraging words and for taking the time to reach out. I know what a rough week you and Tobey had!! So glad she pulled through and I hope she's getting stronger every day!!! I am trying my best to be patient, but it's so heart breaking to watch them struggle! Fortunately, Maggie is stronger than I am! :o

[molly muffin]

Renee is right and she has the experience to back it up with that awful cc. You're looking at months and months to get that cleared up, keeping the cortisol controlled is key and you are well on your way to doing that and keeping them from getting infected is important. The sprays you have should help them to not get infected too.
As for the rear leg weakness, that is a hard one too. It takes them quite awhile to get the strength back, using it helps of course and hopefully she will start to do so more and more but it takes a long time and may never be what it was. You just don't know for sure how they will respond and if there are any problems like arthritis that will make her not want to use it.

[onlyg]

I haven't posted all the details of the last couple of weeks since I feel all the seniors time would be better spent helping the baby's and parents in crisis. But now I need some guidance. Maggie had her 2nd ACTH test since starting 10mg of vetoryl a month ago. (still weighs 23lbs). I also asked for complete bloodwork, even though my vet didn't think it was necessary yet, to see what all else may be going on. My vet is very focused on the cushings and though that may be right for the moment, I don't want to miss anything. I think the ACTH results are great considering she is on such a low dose. I posted the results in my album since I'm not sure what all you need to see. The pre was 2.3 and the post was 5.4. My vet is off for the next couple days so I didn't get to discuss any of the results with him. That's why I don't know if that is great or too low too fast. She seems good and I think the CC looks a lot better. I also posted the latest pictures of the CC. Her drinking is normal and she is eating. Not as much as she used to, but I don't know how long she's been sick so I really don't know what normal is anymore. But suffice to say, she eats about as much as her 13yr old brother. She sleeps a lot, but when I'm home she's up and following me from room to room as best she can (her leg weakness is about the same) . I would really love it if someone could look at the test results -ACTH and CBC - and let me know what you think. I can't wait 2 more days to find out if I should be concerned about anything. There are a couple of things in her bloodwork that are out of wack and I believe they are liver related. I don't want to ignore any other problems I should be addressing. Any comments would be appreciated. I want to hug her tight and not cry for a change!!:o

[molly muffin]

I would be very happy with that ACTH result especially if the cc is doing so much better which you are right, it does look better in the pictures.

Yes the alt is liver relat d. If you aren't doing the milk thistle, Sam-e supplement lik denamarin then I'd add it in but sometimes those values don't go down much, even on treatment.

Keep an eye on the glucose as it is just a tad out of range high. It might be nothing and not go higher. The other stuff isn't terribly worrying I don't think. I expect to see a bit higher calcium with cc involved.

I'd say good job! No need for tears. Rather a big smile. :)

[onlyg]

Thank you sooo much!!! Your response actually made me cry happy tears.I have been so unbelievably stressed by all this!I I actually already started milk thistle a couple of days ago since I read a lot about how this stresses the liver. I hope it helps. I was also concerned about the sugar since I read other dogs have gotten diabetes as well but since I really don't know how all the numbers work, I just wanted to be sure. I will make sure we watch this. Like I said, my vet is very focused on the Cushings and I feel like I am going to have to keep on him so he doesn't ignore any other problems. Thank you again for taking the time to look at all this!!! I would have probably had a nervous breakdown by the time my vet gets back to me. :eek:

[molly muffin]

This is why we are here. :).

So set up a schedule to recheck values like the glucose. Ask if they have an in house test for something like that. Sometimes vets do and it is cheaper than doing a full index blood test if you just want to have a quick check of blood sugar.

You can then make another schedule to do full blood check. I do this less often unless watching something that is really concerning. I do 3 months. Sometimes 6 months if things don't seem to be changing.

Liver enzymes even on milk thistle can take months to move.

[onlyg]

Another question. Does anyone know what "Lipemic Serum" means? It is noted under "Lab Comments" on the last page of the Blood report? Again, my doctor won't be back until the end of the week so I have to wait to ask him. Patience is a virtue I don't have! :(

[Harley PoMMom]

Lipemic is referring to high concentration of lipids (or fats) in the blood. High levels of lipids can cause anomalies in other lab values, usually the lab marks with a + when elevated lipids are seen, the more +'s the more interference is noted with the other lab numbers.

[onlyg]

Thank you!! There are only 2 + signs and they are the potassium and sodium. Both are in good ranges so I guess that means there was little interference. :) Phew!!

[molly muffin]

It's nice to have good news once in awhile eh. :)