My sweet fur baby Abby

[Abbygail]

Hello, my name is Tammy n my dog is Abby Gail, Abby for short.
Abby is my 15 lb, 9 yr old min pin. She was very sick in January, with lethargy, shaking, loss of appetite n kept going outside to potty often(doggy door). Vet treated for a possible uti, with pain med n antibiotics. She has had just 2 more off days since, but not near as bad. I took her back in to vet this week for a follow up. Vet asked if she has always had a puffy tummy. I said yes n that we have had her on weight management food for a couple of years. Vet said we should run blood panels. Tests showed thyroid fine but pointed to cushings, high cholesterol, triglycerides, enzimes in liver, etc. They didnt do urinalysis. Vet had her all day Wed doing the ldds. We will have those results on Wed, and we will know the type of Cushing's. Right now the vet said she seems to be only having episodes. I thot that was strange.

Abby only takes a pro-sense senior dog vit n a cosiquin ds.

I've done some research which is all very scary, then I found this site. I feel a little better after reading many things on here. Thank u for all the helpful info n great ideas n suggestions of what to ask vet. I have so much to learn, but it makes me feel better knowing that u r here. They r looking into Vetoryl n how many mgs to prescribe for her, after results next week. Again, thanks for being here for all of us, it means a lot. God bless u, Tammy

[Roxie]

Good luck to you and your pup! Whatever you do be sure to post lab results here. The people here are very great people and they know this disease better than some vets do!

[tank&kat]

Hi Tammy,

I'm sorry to hear about Abby not feeling well. I want to tell you that Cushing's is not a scary disease. It's only scary if left untreated. The medications do not cure the disease, however they do keep the cortisol in normal range so the dog doesn't suffer the consequences of prolonged hypercortisolism.

I am concerned about the vet wanting to wait until test results next week to determine the dosage of vetoryl for Abby. Vetoryl dosing is guided initially by the weight of the dog. After the 2nd ACTH test, the dose can be adjusted based on test results/symptoms, if necessary. There is a link below that explains the manufactures new low dose protocol. Very important Abby starts the drug at no more than 1 mg/lb or 2 mg/kg.

I am glad you found us through your research. Looking forward to seeing the results next week. Do you have any idea what the vet meant by "episodes"?

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/new-lower-starting-dose-for-vetoryl/


~Katherine

[Abbygail]

Hello Roxie n Katherine, thank u for posting ur kind words.

The vet said she didn't want to start meds on blood panel reults alone, she wanted the ldds results to confirm her diagnoses first, she didn't want to be wrong n have started her on an unneeded med, especially one so risky that it could ruin the gland if this isn't Cushing, and cause something called addisons disease. Hope I said all that correctly.

The vet said since Abby only has shown symptoms on three occasions, not all the time, she called it episodic. The only symptom that she shows all the time is her belly chubbiness, lol. She is my easy keeper. Oh n i made a mistake in my first post, Abby was sick the first time in DEC, not to long after Thanksgiving, thats why vet wondered if she got some food with a lot of salt, like ham, that's when he was thinking pancreatic. We did have 15 people, some kids, but I didn't see anyone feed the dogs, it isn't allowed.

Then she had an off day in Jan n another off day last week, both minor, she was just tired, a little lethargic n shaky all day, she ate n everything just fine. Other than that she has had no symptoms. Thats why at first they thot she might be having a pancreatic attack or had a uti. I didn't take her in on the two days when she was just feeling under the weather. So I made appointment for followup n that's when she decided to do ldds.

I will get results for tests as soon as available n post. Thanks so much.

Have a blessed day, Tammy

[tank&kat]

Tammy,

That makes sense now and you explained it perfectly. I'm skeptical of a positive result for Cushing's based on Abby's symptoms alone. Glad to hear the vet is taking the necessary precautions. Was there a UCC (urine cortisol creatinine ratio) test done?

[Abbygail]

No Katherine, I don't believe a ucc was done. If so, it would of had to been done the day they kept her for ldds.

Tammy

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Tammy,

Welcome to you and Abby! Cushing's is a treatable disease and many of our members are having success in treating their cushdog. It takes an experienced vet and an educated pet owner to facilitate safe and effective treatment and when one or both is missing is when dogs get into trouble.

Shaking, loss of appetite, and episodic symptoms are not clinical signs commonly found with Cushing's disease, these symptoms fit more with either high or low blood sugar. Dogs with diabetes can also have that pot-bellied appearance. Has her blood sugar been tested?

We're a nosy bunch here and we would really appreciate it if you could tell us some more about Abby's medical history, in this way we can provide you with better feedback, ok?

Could please get copies of the testing that was done on Abby and post the results here that would be great. With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. We are also interested in those LDDS test results so when you get them please post them too...thanks! How much does Abby weigh? Does Abby have any underlying illness that she taking herbs/supplements/medications for, if so what is it and what is the medication?

I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but so glad you found us and we will help in any way we can. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[Abbygail]

Hi Tammy,

Welcome to you and Abby! Cushing's is a treatable disease and many of our members are having success in treating their cushdog. It takes an experienced vet and an educated pet owner to facilitate safe and effective treatment and when one or both is missing is when dogs get into trouble.

Shaking, loss of appetite, and episodic symptoms are not clinical signs commonly found with Cushing's disease, these symptoms fit more with either high or low blood sugar. Dogs with diabetes can also have that pot-bellied appearance. Has her blood sugar been tested?

We're a nosy bunch here and we would really appreciate it if you could tell us some more about Abby's medical history, in this way we can provide you with better feedback, ok?

Could please get copies of the testing that was done on Abby and post the results here that would be great. With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. We are also interested in those LDDS test results so when you get them please post them too...thanks! How much does Abby weigh? Does Abby have any underlying illness that she taking herbs/supplements/medications for, if so what is it and what is the medication?

I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but so glad you found us and we will help in any way we can. ;)

Hugs, Lori

Hello Lori, thank you for showing such concern.
Abby is 15 lbs and will be 9 yrs old on the 15th. she really has had no health issues until now other than weight issues. She had an abscessed tooth in 2014 and had to have surgery to remove it. They did not suspect cushings until the blood panel came back, at first they suspected thyroid.
She only takes a pro-sense senior vit. and a cosiquin ds chewable each day. She was on a pain pill and antibiotic for a week in Dec since they thot she might have a uti, but weren't sure. Her blood sugars might have been tested, but that i'm not sure, if so they weren't a fasting draw. I will get the blood panel results tuesday when the vet office opens, cus closed monday. She is still doing fine this evening. Out of curiosity, when they say, DOG DRINKS A LOT OF WATER, how much would that be? She seems to drink a little bit every so often, doesn't just stand at water and drink and drink. But i don't know if she goes back more than normal.
Again thanks, Tammy

[tank&kat]

Hello Lori, thank you for showing such concern.
Abby is 15 lbs and will be 9 yrs old on the 15th. she really has had no health issues until now other than weight issues. She had an abscessed tooth in 2014 and had to have surgery to remove it. They did not suspect cushings until the blood panel came back, at first they suspected thyroid.
She only takes a pro-sense senior vit. and a cosiquin ds chewable each day. She was on a pain pill and antibiotic for a week in Dec since they thot she might have a uti, but weren't sure. Her blood sugars might have been tested, but that i'm not sure, if so they weren't a fasting draw. I will get the blood panel results tuesday when the vet office opens, cus closed monday. She is still doing fine this evening. Out of curiosity, when they say, DOG DRINKS A LOT OF WATER, how much would that be? She seems to drink a little bit every so often, doesn't just stand at water and drink and drink. But i don't know if she goes back more than normal.
Again thanks, Tammy

Tammy,

I can answer that for you. Normal water intake for a dog does not exceed 1 ounce per pound. Also, you can check to see if her urine is dilute or clear. That would indicate PU/PD (excessive drinking/urinating).

[WeLoveAthena]

Hi Tammy, I'm very new here and just learning everything. I just want to say that this site has been a lifesaver for our little family. The people here are wonderful. They are Angels. You will learn so much here and be able to get through this tough time knowing you are not alone and these awesome Angels are always here to listen, support and help you learn so that you can make informed decisions about your baby Abby.

Just wanted to say hello and thinking about you. Our Silver Lab, Athena, is on day 5 of Vetoryl for Cushings. We are just coming out of the shock of her testing ( She had a reaction to the Low Dex) and the diagnosis. One thing that has helped is we don't feel alone with this site to turn too. It's a true blue lifesaver.

I can't offer as much knowledge as these great folks but I understand the feeling of just finding out and going through so many emotions. I wish I could offer something to you but all I have is to be able to say that you are not alone and you will get plenty of help here.

Sincerely,
T~

[molly muffin]

I do think it is a good idea to wait to get results before starting any kind of treatment, the clinical signs as mentioned not being in line with normal symptoms of cushings. I might also wonder if they checked her for pancreatis, just in case.
The blood test might show something that will help to determine that but if not that might also be something to discuss with your vet. (as a precaution)

Welcome to the forum

[Abbygail]

Hello, thanks everyone, very supporting to hear from everyone. The Vet called a while ago, but just finally got me the test reports. Ok this might get crazy, our family does everything different n more complicated than most, so why should my dog be any different, ugh. This is what vet said, cushings results is 1.36, a low cushings readings would be 1.4 so she does not have cushings, if anything she would be considered borderline cushings, so we cannot treat it. So we need to address what could be causing her to be borderline. Here in lies the problem, how to treat n/or what to treat. Grr. So we could start with two things, do an ultrasound in case it's a tumor causing the bad labs (vet said possible, but unlikely since her symptoms come n go n have improved) or change her food to a Low Cal dog food like Hills LC n c if we can get her cholesterol n triglycerides n liver enzymes to normal levels (vet says that it is possibly her chol n trig causing problems). Vet said we would switch foods for a month n then run labs again n also be watching for any more symptoms or problem, etc. So we have to decided which to do, food change makes sense but then IF IT IS a tumor, that means we have waited a whole month without doing anything. After deep thot n considering both options we r going to try the food change n see how she does with that, n just pray that we r not making the wrong choice. Please pray n keep us in ur thots. She is doing great today. Hasn't had a prob since super bowl weekend. Hugs to all. Please feel free to read labs and give me any n all advice. You all have been so much help. I read tons here, some of the threads of others make me feel like I'm not alone in this. Thanks again, Tammy

Animal ID: Wilson/Abbi
Owner: Wilson, Tammy
Species: Canine
Breed: Miniature Pinscher
Age: 9 Years
Sex: Spayed Female
General
Specimen: Serum Verified: 02/15/16 10:07 AM ID: Wilson/Abbi
Test Result Low High Units Meter
Cortisol−Pre 9.84 1.0 5.0 ug/dl
Cortisol−4 hr Post <1.0 ug/dl
Cortisol−8 hr post 1.36 ug/dl
NORMAL: Cortisol level less than 1.4 ug/dl 8 hours post−dex.
ADRENAL TUMOR (AT) or PITUITARY DEPENDENT (PDH): Cortisol level
greater than 1.4 ug/dl 8 hours post−dex.
PDH ONLY: Cortisol levels less than 1.0 ug/dl 4 hours post−dex and
greater than 1.4 ug/dl 8 hours post−dex supports PDH.
Approximately 5% of dogs with PDH have normal results.
Alternatively, false positive results may occur with stress or
nonadrenal illness.



VETSCAN VS2
COMPREHENSIVE DIAGNOSTIC
RANGE
ALP 343 5-131 U/L
TBIL 0.7 0.1-0.3 MG/DL
GLU 168 70-138 MG/DL
NA+ 156 139-154 MMOL/L
TP 8.1 5.0-7.4 G/DL
GLOB 4.9 1.6-3.6 G/DL

HEM 3+ LIP 3+ ICT 0

VETSCAN VS2
THYROXINE (T4)/CHOLESTEROL TEST

RANGE

T4 2.6 1.1-4.0 UG/DL
CHOL 329 125-270 MG/DL

HEM 3+ LIP 3+ ICT 0

LYM 0.42 1- 4.8
LY% 3.4- 12-30
MO% 4.3+ 2-4
GR% 92.3 62-87

MCV 61 60-77
MCH 19.5 19.5-24.5
MCHC 31.8 31-34

[Abbygail]

hello Sharlene, what would i look for on the labs that would give me an idea if they checked her pancreas? TIA for your answer.

[Abbygail]

T, very glad to hear that Athena is doing ok on the Vetoryl, Sorry the test was so hard on her. I was worried bout that, but Abby luckily had no side effects at all. I agree being able to talk here and get advice and support makes this horrible thing more bearable. Still not sure what the think about tests. Never have I heard anyone say anything about being borderline. But I don trust my vet. Thanks again, Tammy

[Abbygail]

Hello Kat, Abby has normal looking urine. Yellow, no different smell, even though we have a doggy door, (i've been watching closely) I still do not feel that she has been going any more than an average dog. Thanks

[tank&kat]

I'm not sure I would call that borderline simply because Abby has no clinical signs of Cushing's. ALP and cholesterol are elevated which can be indicative of the disease but could also be related to a number of other things.

I see nothing wrong with doing an ultrasound if you want to definitively rule out an adrenal tumor, however, the chances of finding one are extremely rare in Abby's case.

If her urine is concentrate (yellow), that's another sign pointing away from a Cushing's diagnosis. Cush pups have a low urine specific gravity which means their urine is dilute or clear as a result of PU/PD.

~Katherine

[Harley PoMMom]

I see her glucose (GLU - 168) is elevated, did the vet mention anything about this?

[tank&kat]

Can you verify her LDDS 4 hour post cortisol result, the first test you listed? Or is it <1?

[Abbygail]

Kat, so what does the ALP stand for?
No they did not mention the GLU levels to me, but i do know they said she didn't show signs of diabetes..?
I double checked n yes, the ldds 4 hour post cort results was <1, less than 1.
So am I ok agreeing with the vet in just trying the food for a while to see if that makes a difference. I'm glad we all agree that it prob isn't cushings, but that means I'm back to not know why she feels sick some times. Thanks for all your quick responses. Hugs to all n God Bless

[tank&kat]

Thanks. I knew it was <1 after I responded, just couldn't delete my comment. The ALP is alkaline phosphatase, a liver enzyme.

"A high ALP value is a very common lab finding. 39% of all dogs have a high ALP and 51% of dogs over 8 years have a high ALP. Because there are so many causes of a high ALP, many of which are benign (harmless) processes, determining the cause of an individual patient’s high ALP can be a diagnostic dilemma."

http://www.wagsandwhiskers.com/19-community/261-higher-than-normal-alkaline-phosphatase-levels-in-dogs-what-to-make-of-it

I'm not as experienced (yet) as some of the other members are with lab values but based on what I do know, I believe you are safe to change the food and not pursue testing at this time. I would do another chem panel in a month or two to see where her levels are. Let me know how she does over the next couple of weeks.

~Katherine

[Abbygail]

Thanks Kat, I sure will keep posting as we make the changes. I'm waiting for the vet to get the Hills LC food in stock still. I'm ready to make a change n get this party started. She is doing ok on the outside, but I'm not gonna lie, I set here n watch her n wonder how things r on the inside. I can just visualize her insides screaming at her, even though she seems to be doing ok. I know when my tummy hurts I sometimes don't show it, so I know that can happen to them to. By the way thanks for letting me know that the ALP was the liver enzyme, the vet mentioned to me that the enzyme was high, but I didn't know which number was the specific one. Now I know what to look for when we retest. N thanks to you, I also know that it gets high with age, etc, she is 9 so might even be just normal for her, due to age n weight. Hope all is well, Thanks my friend n God bless, Tam

[tank&kat]

Your welcome. It's not easy when we know they are sick and there's not much we can do about it. Listen to your gut. If you think she needs an ultrasound, do it. It may just be a UTI or a cold/sickness that will resolve in time. I learned the hard way. If I would have listened to my instincts, Tank would have had a diagnosis almost a year sooner. Luckily, he didn't have any of the complications that can sometimes occur with untreated Cushing's.

I'm not saying Abby has Cushing's. I don't think she does. I mean if you think something else is not right...call the vet and discuss your concerns. Ask about a differential diagnosis and what the next step in testing would be. I hope in Abby's case, it's temporary and that she's back to normal soon.

~Katherine

[molly muffin]

Making a spreadsheet so you can monitor test results from each time will let you get a good picture of how she is responding to the food change too. (a good reason to always have a copy of the lab results, so you can refer back)
katherine makes a good point, if you think something is off, it probably is for some reason, so listen to what your instincts say and have those discussions with your vet. It really makes a difference in staying on top of any possibilities.