Shaking in a Cushionoid dog.

[maxismyboy]

Hello.

I was wanting to ask people that have more experience with this condition. My dog, Max, was diagnosed earlier this year with the disease and now he is on Vetoryl 10mg, twice a day. He also takes a blood pressure medication and a pill for his kidneys.

I notice, even on medication he shakes and pants a lot at night. He can be laying down and sleeping and all of a sudden jump up suddenly and look scared.

Is he in pain? Am I doing the wrong thing here by just medicating him and keeping him in pain. My heart is broken.

Would love to hear your replies.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Max!

I have manually approved your membership so now all your posts will be seen right away. Also, please just disregard the validation email that was sent to you from k9cushings.

I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you to us but glad you found your way here.

Is the shaking pertained to a certain body part? We have had other members who have worried over unexplained shaking/tremoring episodes and it is true that shaking/shivering are listed as a possible side effect of Vetoryl, however we don't know the exact reason for this and we wonder if it is somehow relate to rapidly changing cortisol levels.

One word of caution with the BP medication is that it should be used with caution with the Vetoryl because they both have the potential to lower aldosterone.

We love details and if you could tell us more about Max that would help us to provide you with more meaningful feedback, ok?

Could you get copies of all tests that were done on Max and post those results here? With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. Were any diagnostic and monitoring tests performed on Max, and if so, could you post those results too? Does Max have the pituitary or adrenal form of Cushing's? Is he taking any other supplements/herbs/medications? What symptoms did Max display that led you or the vet to test for Cushing's in the first place? I see that he is taking a pill for his kidneys does he have kidney disease? How old is Max and how much does he weigh? Did your vet provide you with instructions to always give the Vetoryl with a meal?

I am so sorry for so many questions but your answers will aid us in helping you understand what is going on with your boy. Keep your chin up, girlfriend, we will help in any way we can. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[maxismyboy]

Hi and welcome to you and Max!

I have manually approved your membership so now all your posts will be seen right away. Also, please just disregard the validation email that was sent to you from k9cushings.

I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you to us but glad you found your way here.

Is the shaking pertained to a certain body part? We have had other members who have worried over unexplained shaking/tremoring episodes and it is true that shaking/shivering are listed as a possible side effect of Vetoryl, however we don't know the exact reason for this and we wonder if it is somehow relate to rapidly changing cortisol levels.

One word of caution with the BP medication is that it should be used with caution with the Vetoryl because they both have the potential to lower aldosterone.

We love details and if you could tell us more about Max that would help us to provide you with more meaningful feedback, ok?

Could you get copies of all tests that were done on Max and post those results here? With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. Were any diagnostic and monitoring tests performed on Max, and if so, could you post those results too? Does Max have the pituitary or adrenal form of Cushing's? Is he taking any other supplements/herbs/medications? What symptoms did Max display that led you or the vet to test for Cushing's in the first place? I see that he is taking a pill for his kidneys does he have kidney disease? How old is Max and how much does he weigh? Did your vet provide you with instructions to always give the Vetoryl with a meal?

I am so sorry for so many questions but your answers will aid us in helping you understand what is going on with your boy. Keep your chin up, girlfriend, we will help in any way we can. ;)

Hugs, Lori

Hi Lori and thanks for letting me come on board!

I was referred to an internal specialist after finally finding a vet that would talk about the issues, the previous vet was very standoffish and refused to discuss it at all unless I set an appt and even than would only quote the pharma guide for the side effects. Initially she started him off at 30mg once per day and all he did was sleep, which was not good. We later went to 10mg once a day and then twice per day after several acth tests.

The current vet seems very informed of the disease and takes much time discussing it but I am concerned that I don't want to ask too many questions, I worry I will become a problem dog owner :-(

After being referred to the internal specialist she did several tests, including a blood pressure test and others and Max has high blood pressure. She said that it is common with Cushionoid dogs and started him on a very low dosage and he has seemed to respond to it. He is on Benazopryl(sp?) and I was told this would help 'normalize' his kidney function and slow down the process of removing protein from his blood stream and urinating it out. His weight has stabilized. He is around 40lbs, which is a few pounds lighter than what he used to be. He is a big beagle, perhaps crossed with a larger hound so he stands about twice the size of a regular Beagle. She suggested we do an ultrasound to confirm if it was an adrenal or pituitary issue but I simply couldn't afford the test. I have spent several thousands of dollars since last fall and my budget is becoming thin. They recommended I change his diet to Royal Canin Renal Support wet food and he seems to like the flavour 'T', whatever that maybe and occasionally has some of the dry dog food of the same brand and type. I have also, after being recommended by a friend, started to sprinkle some Organic Kelp onto his food and he seems to like that as well.

When I became alarmed is when he had accidents in the house and in the early summer he would just go outside and dig a hole underneath a tree and sleep out there for hours on end which is so unlike him. Apparently he has some kidney disease. The internal specialist said if there were four stages to it, Max would be at #2 and after taking the Benazapril and getting a blood test a few weeks later his numbers were much better.

I'm sorry. I don't have the numbers of all the tests, I guess I could ask for them but I don't want to bug them too much.

My concern is with the shaking. I worry he is suffering and in pain. I don't want him to suffer.

[judymaggie]

Hi and welcome to a fellow beagle owner! Lori has gotten you off to a great start but I wanted to mention that my beagle, Abbie, does exactly what you have seen Max do when he is sleeping -- she jumps up out of a deep sleep and looks scared. It takes her quite a few minutes to calm down and usually she doesn't want to go back to the spot she was in for a while. My vet and I have never come up with a good explanation -- the only thing I can think of is she is having nightmares!

Abbie is on amlodipine and telmisartan for high blood pressure and proteinuria. We do get a chem panel done periodically to make certain that aldosterone and other measures are okay. Abbie is on twice a day dosing also and this is supposed to help keep blood pressure steady.

I would encourage you to get copies of all of Max' test results -- you are the paying customer and, at least where I am in Florida, entitled to copies. I go to every vet visit with a list of concerns/questions. I think my vet would think something is wrong with me if I didn't! We are the best advocates for our pups -- start thinking of yourself as a "concerned" parent.

[Joan2517]

Hi and welcome also. My Lena has the shakes a lot. She had them before taking the Vetoryl. It got a little worse after we started, but it has calmed down. Now it happens if she gets startled ( she is pretty deaf and sudden movements from the other dogs frighten her), when she stands too long, and also after nightmares. It scares me when it happens, but then it stops.

I was also nervous about asking questions at the vet's, but not anymore. They poo poo'd me all along with my nervousness about the symptoms that were showing up and after being a part of this group, I know that if I don't ask, I won't get any answers. I don't think they liked it much when I started asking for copies of the blood work, but having this group behind me, empowered me.

My heart is also broken, but now I have some hope. I hope you can find some here as well.

Joan

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me too. The others have covered things but I wanted to add my thoughts on "asking too many questions." A good vet, or internist appreciates an owner who is very proactive and wants to learn more about what is happening with their dog - it actually makes their jobs a bit easier in a lot of ways and they do know you are with your dog day in and day out and see things they do not.

Keep us posted
Terry

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too. My dog also is on amoldipine and benazepril and trilostane. It does seem to be more common than once thought.

I am a firm believer in learning all you can and asking as many questions as possible. Most specialists are good with a pet owner who wants to know all about their pets issues and treatment. Have a frank discussion about it even, and say, you hope they don't mind, but you want to know all you can and just be very nice about. I'm sure you'll do fine.