Terry

[terrykg]

Hello,

I have a 9 year old dacshund who has just been diagnosed with cushings. Are there any holistic alternatives to manage this condition instead of trilostane? What are the true side effects?

Thanks so much!

[LittleArfinAnnie]

Hi, Terry . . .

I, too, have a nine-year old Dachshund who was just diagnosed with Cushing's Disease.

As a Doxie parent, I can only imagine how concerned and upset you must be. I was pretty much a basket case when I found out about my little Annie's diagnosis.

Please understand that I am definitely NO expert ( yet ) and Annie is just on Day 6 of her Trilostane treatment.

Before I agreed to start her on Trilostane, though, I hit the Web with a vengeance. I lost many a good night's sleep gathering as much information about this insidious disease as I could.

I read about Melatonin . . . and lignans . . . but just ended up getting myself so confused ( sleep-deprivation doesn't help, mind you ) that I was almost starting to panic.

It was only when I read about the new, amended dosing protocol for Trilostane ( Vetoryl ) that I found myself starting to relax a bit.

Once I made sure that Annie's vet was also up-to-speed on these new dosing amounts, I agreed to give Trilostane a try.

Annie weighs 18.2 pounds and she gets 10 mg of Vetoryl twice a day - spaced precisely at 12 hour intervals.

Since the recommended dosage is 1 mg / lb of body weight, she is well within these new safety margins - especially since the medication is spread out over 24 hours.

And because the proper functioning of her endocrine system is SO fundamental to the proper functioning of all other body systems, I decided to trust the scientific professionals on this one.

I, too, am all FOR natural, holistic therapies. I very much believe in the body's ability to restore balance and heal itself when provided with the proper support . . . Nutritionally or otherwise . . .

But Annie's Cushing's Disease seems to be the result of a benign tumour on the pituitary gland in her brain.

I wouldn't BEGIN to know how to address that holistically.

For what it's worth, Annie is tolerating her Vetoryl treatment program quite well so far. I'll know more after her first ACTH stimulation test next week.

Her water intake is beginning to slowly decline and I'm no longer having to deal with "accidents" in the house.

Obviously, you are faced with a personal decision. I just thought you might like to know that this Doxie "mom" researched and considered all sorts of alternatives to Trilostane initially. I was TERRIFIED of the possible side effects.

With this new dosing protocol in place, I find that I'm a lot less nervous than I was.

Warmest wishes . . . I'm thinking of you !

Catherine

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Catherine is correct, we have not, through all these years found anything holistically that will actually lower the cortisol. It is the cortisol that causes the cushing symptoms, ravenous appetite, drinking tons, peeing tons, muscle loss and weakness of limbs, hair loss, sometimes sores and damage to the internal organs.

The cortisol production is due to either a tumor on the adrenal glands or a tumor on the pituitary gland. Pituitary is the most common and normally they are very small.

What symptoms does your doxie have? How was she diagnosed for cushings?

We can try to answer any questions you might have but generally speaking if you plan to lower the cortisol, then will at some point need to treat medically.

We've had many dogs on treatment for years and years. As long as the proper dosage protocols and testing protocols are followed, treatment can have very good results for both you and your furbaby.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and your furbaby!

I'm so glad you found your way here although I'm sorry for the circumstances that brought you to us.

It would help us greatly if you could tell us more about your furbaby and her/his medical history, in this way we can provide you with our best possible feedback, and the way we get this information is with a lot of questions, so here goes some of mine ;)

Could you round up all copies of the testing that was done on your furbaby and post the results here. With respect to the blood chemistry and CBC, you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges. We are especially interested in the results of the test/s that were performed to diagnose the Cushing's, so if you could post those too that would help us a lot. Was an urinalysis done, and if so, could you post those findings too? Were other non-adrenal diseases ruled out? Was your furbaby diagnosed with the adrenal or pituitary type of Cushing's? Is your furbaby taking any other herbs/supplements/medications? How much does your furbaby weigh?

The two medications that are usually prescribed for Cushing's are Vetoryl/Trilostane and Lysodren/Mitotane. These are strong drugs and both have some pretty scary side effects, however, adverse effects are usually not seen unless the proper treatment protocols are not followed. We have many members that are treating their cushdog with either Vetoryl/Trilostane or Lysodren/Mitotane and are experiencing success. The key to facilitating safe and effective treatment is an experienced vet and an educated pet owner, so the best advice I can give you is to do your research on Cushing's, the treatment protocols, and how it is diagnosed. With treatment dogs with Cushing's can have a good quality of life and there is every reason to believe that they can live out their normal life span.

We have a wealth of information regarding Cushing's in our Helpful Resource thread, which does include articles written by some of the most renown veterinarians that specialize in endocrinology such as David Bruyette, Mark Peterson, and Edward Feldman. Here's a link to our Resource thread: Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)

We understand that you are fearful but we will help you and your dear furbaby in any way we can, we will walk this journey with you, ok? ;)

Hugs, Lori

[terrykg]

Hello Everyone!
Thank you so much for your messages! I actually went through this "initiative" about 8 years ago with another Doxie - Herman. that there is 8 more years of "science" it appears that the vets are mover comfortable treating this condition. Mozart has the typical pot-belly and about 4 months ago begin to transition regarding the symptoms - drinking more, always hungry. So in the back of my mind - I was concerned. He was a sick pup when I got him - and was diligent on trying to keep him as healthy as possible. Good food - supplements, little stress, etc. So - here I am. We had an ultrasound done and it was pretty evident that things were off (no tumor - that is good news). Alk Phos (533 now) was elevated so we finally did the ACTH stim test and confirmed cushings. They are recommending Trilostane dosage of 10. I have not started treatment - still processing but will probably move forward early next week. Thanks so much!

[LittleArfinAnnie]

Hello again, Terry . . .

I continue to be astonished at the number of little Dachshunds that develop this condition, you know.

When I first brought Annie home, 9 1/2 years ago, the only thing that I was terrified about was that something would go wrong with her little back.

Who knew that Cushing's Disease was on the horizon ?

10 mg of Trilostane sounds like a good place to start for your little guy. Of course, that will all depend on his weight.

Annie is getting 10 mg twice a day at 12 hour intervals and she weighed 18.2 pounds the last time that she was weighed at the vet.

We are on Day 8 ( but who's counting ) of her treatment and I booked her first ACTH stimulation test for next week.

So far so good . . . I'm not noticing any side effects whatsoever and believe me, I'm watching her like a hawk !

I'm a retired teacher so she and I are pretty much joined at the hip.

If I were to "speculate", I'd say that her water consumption is beginning to taper . . . but it's pretty incremental at this point.

Slow but steady wins the race and I'm much happier with her dose being well within the margins of safety.

This morning, though, she did something which she hasn't done for well over a year.

As you know, doxies love to burrow under the bed covers. That had pretty much stopped because I'm assuming that she just became too hot and uncomfortable.

This morning she started doing it again and I woke up to a little face staring out at me from under the sheets. Actually, what woke me up was the up-and-down movement of the covers as she used her head to really get in there and turn around !

Perhaps just a coincidence ? I prefer to hope otherwise. It would be so wonderful to get my feisty little girl back.

Now if only only Trilostane could do something about her stubbornness ! ( lol )

I can remember being in the "processing" phase to which you referred. Just remember that if you elect to start treating your little fellow and you aren't happy with how he is responding, you can always stop. Granted, the Cushing's symptoms will return but Trilostane ( Vetoryl ) only remains in their systems for about 12 hours or so.

That's precisely what I told myself when I opened my first box of Vetoryl. And it's still always in the back of my mind, too.

Warmest wishes . . .

Catherine and Miss Annie

[molly muffin]

How are you and Mozart doing? Did you start him on trilostane?

[terrykg]

How are you and Mozart doing? Did you start him on trilostane?
Hello Sharlene,

I am starting Mozart's Trilostane this morning. I am going with twice a day treatment. I did get a recommendation for 1/day from another vet but didn't think that was a good idea. Now - I believe I take him in for a Stim test in 10 days or is it 14 days? Thanks!

Terry

[Harley PoMMom]

I see from your previous post that they were starting him on 10 mg to be given once a day, so is Mozart getting 5 mg twice a day or 10 mg twice a day? Dechra, the makers of Vetoryl, recommend a starting does of 1 mg per pound of a dog's weight. How much does Mozart weigh?

And yes, the first monitoring ACTH stimulation test should be performed with 10-14 days following the start of treatment. Please post those ACTH results when you get them.

Hugs, Lori