Awaiting test results - Sophie has passed away

[Sophiesmom]

Hi all,
So glad to have found this forum. Our 14 1/2 pocket beagle was diagnosed with kidney disease 2 years ago after coming close to dying and has done fairly well till recently after antibiotic treatment.
The last month we noticed an increase in her drinking water and she was having accidents on our bed as well as in the house itself.
After checking her urine and blood for kidney issues an finding elevated protein the vet put her on amoxicillan (she also has chronic lymes).
Two weeks later she goes in for a recheck due to increased water consumption and still having accidents.
She does more urinalysis and blood tests and finds her liver enzymes are elevated as well as her cholesterol. She is getting the pot belly look despite not beng fed more and had gained 1 lb in 2 weeks despite beng put on a special kidney disease diet. I can tell she has gained more in less than 1 week.
The vet is having the lab test for Cushing's which she is pretty confident is the issue. We should have the results tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.
She has had shaking episodes and seems much more anxious to the point that she will not eat right away (she has always gulped her food down quickly and eats just abut anything).
She seems anxious about us leaving her while she eats and waits to make sure we stay right there while she eats.
She still has quite a bit of energy although her back legs are a bit weaker.
We are not sure what is the best plan for her and are anticipating a positive result looking at all her symptoms.
I have read where the medication can be toxic and very unpleasant for the dog.
Any ideas and suggestions are welcome. Two years ago when she had such sever symptoms our vet thought she may have a brain tumor. I came home and looked up the symptoms and realized it was kidney failure. The vet had given her pain meds and antibiotc and thankfully she came out of it. We just want to do the right thing for Sophie for a happy life. We hate seeing her shaking (this could be what I see some of you refer to as tremors). I showed the vet and she saw it when she fed her a bone and said she was excited. Hm...... She does it while sleeping and when she seems anxious. Can they do anything for these?

[labblab]

Hello and welcome to you and to Sophie! I apologize that I will not have time to write to you in more detail until later on today, but I wanted to make sure you know how happy we are that you've found us. ;)

So stay tuned and I will add a more substantive reply just as soon as I have the chance.

Marianne

[Sophiesmom]

HI Marianne and thank you for your warm welcome.
The vet called today and said her numbers were high. Normal was 13 and below and she had a 22 so now we are doing the all day blood test?
I have to call tomorrow and book this.
Im not sure what this will show as I could not speak with the vet when she called. i just got the message after work and now they are closed.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Did they do the ACTH test today? to check the cortisol level?

Tomorrow will be the LDDS test it sounds like (that is the all day) It can show whether cushings is pituitary or adrenal based. Although not always.

The medication can be very helpful to dogs with cushings, as the idea is to bring down the cortisol level to a normal range for dogs on treatment.

You are looking for under 9.0 ug post ACTH on treatment with symptoms controlled.

I do worry always with a dog who also has other chronic illnesses as they can have false positives on the tests. Cortisol will rise in response to chronic illnesses or other problems.

That being said, if all the test are positive and it is cushings, if using trilostane/vetroyl, the dosage recommendations have been changed recently to start with no more than 1mg/1lb. It is often over dosing which causes the dogs problems.

Doe she drink alot and eat ravenously?

The tremors are usually something that you see once medication has been started as that can be a side effect.

I'm concerned if she is already having tremors, as that isn't exactly excitability. It can be pain, it can be other things but what I am talking about is completely different than a dog being excited and one that is anxious and does not want to eat unless you are there, is generally not excited.

My dog gets the tremors in the mornings and I am still not positive what is causing it, but due to the circumstances, of when and for how long, wondering if it is tied to cortisol levels or to kidney (as my dog has protein in urine also and has been diagnosed with protein losing kidney disease)

There just seems to be several things going on and I'm hoping that your vet is well versed in cushings and treatment, but I admit to having those concerns, especially if you where the one who found out about the kidney problems.

Dogs with cushings can be prone to kidney losing protein disease. This is diagnosed if 3 UPCs are consistent with high protein, these are done several weeks apart and not during any time of gastro upset as the UPC always is higher for weeks it seems after a gastro upset. The treatment then would be put them on something like benazepril or enalapril. (also make sure BP's being checked if you have protein loss and high cortisol, as that can be affected too)

Gosh, I know I am all over the place in this post. I just feel like there is so much information that I need to let you know about, to consider. :)

Do you have the test results of recent blood work, etc? If so if you could post the abnormal high or low results with ranges, that might get us started.

Sorry for the long scattered post.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you for your reply and information Molly. I didn't find your post all over the place at all. I followed it just fine :)
So, Sophie had the ACTH test last week right before New Year's so we had to wait to get the results till today. The number is 22.
The vet left me a message because I was working till 3:30 so by the time I got home, they were closed. I have to call them tomorrow to schedule the LDDS test.
I do not know her numbers but know her cholesterol and liver enzymes were elevated.
There was protein found in her urine but with the antibiotic (she also has chronic lymes) the numbers have improved. She did have kidney failure two years ago but medication helped then as well.
Her symptoms are drinking large amounts of water, accidents in the house and on my bed, the tremors (she can get these just lying down, when she knows we are leaving or for any number of reasons), more scratching and her belly is much bigger. We only feed her twice a day and sometimes give her a little nibble of our food but that is it. She has always been a dog who will eat any amount at any time so the ravenous part would be hard to tell lol
I will see if I can get a copy of her lab work.
Thanks again for the information and welcome!

[labblab]

Hello again! I'm so glad Sharlene had the chance to stop by and give you such a great welcome. At this point, I don't have a great deal to add as we await the results of the LDDS test. However, I just wanted to let you know that unexplained tremoring has been mentioned by other members, and my own Cushpup suffered from them both before and after he started trilostane treatment.

It is true that tremors are listed as a possible side effect of trilostane, but as I say, we noticed them in our dog even before he began taking the drug. For him, it looked as though he was shivering across his shoulders even though we knew knew he wasn't cold. It actually happened most often when he was at rest, and even while sleeping. They didn't seem to bother him at all, but they totally freaked me out! They worsened right after he started the trilostane, and then ended up disappearing entirely a few months later. We never did find an explanation. I have often wondered whether the tremors simply relate to large changes in cortisol level in either direction -- up or down.

At any rate, even though I cannot give you an explanation, I just want you to know you're not the only one who has puzzled over this! Do let us know when you are able to schedule the LDDS, and feel free to continue asking any questions that come to mind in the meantime.

Marianne

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you lablab. I scheduled her test for tomorrow.
Thanks for the information on the tremors. What you describe sounds exactly like what Sophie's tremors are. She shakes all over like she is cold. Since she is not on any medication yet for the Cushing's it will be interesting to see what happens if we do indeed put her on it.
I am pretty much convinced she does have it due to all the symptoms and the thirst and accidents not improving on the antibiotic.
We also notice she has become more anxious and cries and carries on during the night. She never used to but now it is every night. Because she moves all over the bed, snores and has accidents we put her n our large laundry room with her bed. It never bothered her before but the last month or so she has been relentless. I feel terrible but do not know what else to do. We are exhausted from putting her out a lot and cleaning up her accidents as it is.
I know she can't help it and we are not upset with her, more upset because we do not know what to do about the situation. She spends all day with me when I am home which is often.
It is tough to have your pet sick and elderly knowing time is not on your side. Again, thank you for all the advice, support and suggestions.

[molly muffin]

Hmm, I wasn't thinking about the tremors starting prior to treatment, but Marianne is right some do. My dog started the tremors after treatment. She had them, then they went away and now they are back.

Since Sophie has quite a few night time issues, it may be that if you start treatment, then a split dose am and pm would help to maintain a good level of cortisol through out the day. (something to discuss with your vet)

[Sophiesmom]

Thanks so much for your reply. She does seem to have more issues at night and for some reason, on my bed. She seems to be sleeping when it happens.
She hasn't had an accident near her bed in a few days which is good but we are putting her out every few hours to keep that from happening .
If she is not with us (like at nighttime) she is crying throughout the night.
I can have her sleep in our bed but again, afraid she will have another accident and she moves around so much we have trouble sleeping. I am not sure what the answer is for that. Will have to discuss with the vet. Sometimes she is good and has answers and sometimes not so much.

[molly muffin]

Sophie had her test yesterday? When do they expect results?

[Sophiesmom]

I am supposed to hear from the vet tomorrow.
No accidents in the last few days! She has been sleeping with us at night and this has been going well so far.
I am assuming if the results are positive she will want to put her on the medication. Are there any drawbacks from this? I read in an article t can be hard on the pet. Is this true?

[molly muffin]

If it is cushings, then the key is a vet with a good knowledge of cushings and the medication and following protocols.

For instance, if using trilostane, starting dose of no more than 1mg/1lb (this is new from the manufacturer and not all vets are aware) This is the safer starting dose.

The medication for cushings can be a life saver for the dogs and owner and is generally considered safe as long as the protocols are followed.

Did you hear from the vet today?

[Sophiesmom]

The vet called last night and Sophie does have Cushing's Disease.
The vet put her on Vetoryl 10 mg. Sophie is 16 lbs and change.
She is hoping this will alleviate her thirst and wetting.
She says this should be tolerated well (hopefully) and she will be on it for the rest of her life.
We shall see how she makes out with it. We had to go out for less than 4 hours and she had peed on her pee pad even though we had put her out right before we left.
It would be great if the medication works and there are no side effects.

[labblab]

When you have a chance, it will be great if you can get us the actual numbers from the Cushing's test. In the meantime, good luck with the Vetoryl and please keep us updated!

Marianne

[Sophiesmom]

I have been pretty busy but hoping to get a copy of the lab results in the next day or so.
Sophie has been doing well except tonight she peed on my bed (and down comforter) again. :(
How long does it take for the medication to start working?
I have not seen any difference at all. She still drinks a lot of water, needs to go out all the time, has the tremors and I've noticed her back legs are a bit weaker.
I am at my wits end on what to do about her incontinence. She wants to be with us 24/7 but I never know when she is going to leak all over my bed, rug or floor even when I put her out frequently. I've tried diapers and they just fall off. What do you do for your dog's incontinence and keeping your home from smelling like a urine factory? She does fine for several days or so then has accidents. I do not know what to do about her sleeping on our bed either. She moves around frequently so it isn't like I could put a pee pad in a specific area. It is very frustrating!

[My sweet Ginger]

Hi, welcome from me too.
Your last post this evening took me back to three years ago. I so understand your frustration and hopeless feeling. My pup was peeing like every 30-45 mins so taking her out often didn't really help. I'd tried every type of diapers I could find and none will stay on!
By a stroke of luck I found this harness/diaper and my house has been puddle free ever since. She wears them 24/7 although i still take her out often. To me it's a godsend.
It's called 'peekeeper' and you can see my pup wearing them if you go to her album. Check their website 'peekeeper.com'
It's not so easy putting them on and off at first but once you know how it gets much easier. If you decide to try this I can give you a more detailed tips on what kind of pads to buy and the easiest way to putting them on and off.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you so much for the suggestion. I am very much interested in hearing about the right pads to buy and tips for use. I've heard of the harness and pads but wasn't sure it would be secure enough or placed in the proper position to catch it. It happens mostly on my bed, when sleeping.
Yes it is so frustrating and so far the medication isn't helping but she hasn't been on for that long. Hoping it starts working soon!

[My sweet Ginger]

Sophie's been on Vetoryl only for a few days now and I'm sure you will notice a change soon. With this disease patience is the key.
In the mean time I hope the diaper/harness will help you and Sophie.

After many trials with different types of pads I found adult 'Tena' serenity pads worked the best (I buy them at Walgreens), 36ct (5 dots ) or 42ct (4 dots) depending on the thickness.
I cut them in half and tape the cut sides with wide enough fabric tape from drug stores.
I peel one off ( a half) and stick it on the harness while making sure the cut side (thicker end) facing up the tail so that most of urine will be absorbed in the thick end of the pad.
Although there is a video of how to put them on I find my way works better. It gets tricky as all the Velcro sticking to each other when you don't want them to yet but soon you will get the hang of it. Patience here too.
I make sure the belly side Velcro strap is closed already before putting the harness on my pup and then start from
' Head in - Front leg - Back leg - Tail' and then close left and right flaps of the Velcro.
To remove it you go exactly the backwards,
UN-Velcro left and right flaps - tail out- back leg out- front leg out - head out, not touching the closed belly strap Velcro at all.

Hope this helps you and Sophie. My pup hated them in the beginning, running away from me if she sees me with the harness in my hands.
Give yourself long enough time and soon you will be a pro. I have two of them so I will always have a spare for unexpected accidents and they do happen more often than you'd like to.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you so much for the suggestion.
The hard thing is she has only peed on my bed lately although has peed other places in the last 2 months.
This may sound silly but I was seriously considering connecting a black garbage bag underneath my top quilt on my bed so when she pees it will only go through the quilt and not the down comforter. I can wash the quilt easy enough. I could also buy the pads and harness and put it on her when she is on my bed (which is most of the day) but I feel as if I would waste a lot of diapers when she isn't peeing unless you can keep them on as long as she doesnt soil them. Do you have to change the pad every time you take the pad and harness off?
I am praying the pills work and she stops the accidents.

[labblab]

Song has given you some terrific help here. In addition, I want to tell you to please not give up hope so soon! Sophie is being started out on a very conservative dose of the medication which is very good in terms of safety, but she may very well end up needing an increase in order to gain control of her symptoms. The medication usually is not increased until after a month on the first dose, and it will depend upon the results of monitoring blood testing and also how she is doing at that time. So I know it is very hard to be patient in the midst of all the peeing :o, but there's still every chance that she will improve in the coming weeks.

Marianne

[My sweet Ginger]

In your case I'd still see the benefit of getting at least one peekeeper on hand for when needed. I'm sure they have smaller cts of pads available too. In these peekeepers the diapers stay on beautifully and catch urine really good as long as they are snug enough while the pup is in lying down position. I think it will be an investment you will not regret in the long run.
No, you DO NOT have to change pads each time you take the harness off. There's no need to change them when they are dry.
They come in S, M and L and take a good measurement so that it fits good. I've been modifying my pup's harnesses as she steadfastly loses weight (from 10.6 down to 6.4 lbs these days) so a bit of modifying work can be done if necessary.

[Renee]

Another peekeeper advocate here! They work beautifully, for boys and girls.

And, I also must agree with Song - the best pads to use are the urinary incontinence pads, not feminine hygiene products. I use the generic incontinence pads from target, moderate absorbancy, for my male pug. I don't cut them in half like Song does, but that may be worth trying out. I only change the pad as it gets wet. Where I live, a pack of 20 (or maybe 24?) pads is less than $4.

[Sophiesmom]

Well she just peed on my bed AGAIN after letting her out numerous times today. I am going to have to go find this harness and pads because I do not know what else to do. I am so frustrated (and yes sick of having to wash my bedding) but know she cannot help it. Does the medicine always work?
The closest Walgreens is half an hour away. I have CVS and Rite Aid near me so will look online to see if they carry them. So you use normal people incontinence pads or are you talking pads for dogs?
The diapers are horrible although tinkle trousers were suggested with a Huggie's diaper put inside.
Thank you so much for all your help!

[Renee]

Yes, incontinence pads made for people. Any generic brand should be fine. Maybe the Tena ones are better quality for cutting? I've been using the generic target ones for the past 2 years.

Also, the disposable female dog diapers never stayed on my girl pug, but the washable ones I ordered from Amazon did stay on. I ordered these ones:

http://www.amazon.com/Simple-Solution-Washable-Diaper-Cover-Ups/dp/B00331B22I/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1452723777&sr=8-6&keywords=dog+diaper

[labblab]

Song has given you some terrific help here. In addition, I want to tell you to please not give up hope so soon! Sophie is being started out on a very conservative dose of the medication which is very good in terms of safety, but she may very well end up needing an increase in order to gain control of her symptoms. The medication usually is not increased until after a month on the first dose, and it will depend upon the results of monitoring blood testing and also how she is doing at that time. So I know it is very hard to be patient in the midst of all the peeing :o, but there's still every chance that she will improve in the coming weeks.

Marianne
I just wanted to repeat my earlier reply because I think it got buried on the bottom of the preceding page...

[My sweet Ginger]

I cut Tena pads in half because they are too long for the size of my girl and harness itself. It just fits perfect that way inside of the harness and the the absorbance of tena pads are great. Although the price of tena may run a little higher than others I think it's not too bad when you cut them in half and double the ct. I highly recommend peekeeper before you invest in anything else.

[Sophiesmom]

Thanks everyone. Please know I do appreciate all your help and suggestions and Lablab I did miss your post so thank you for reposting. I will order the peekeeper tomorrow. The issue has been going on for some time with the vet thinking it was her kidneys and why I am feeling overwhelmed.
She has now peed a third time on my bed. It seems to be getting worse. I realize it all takes time.
I put a diaper on hoping it will hold while she at least sleeps.
She has cataracts, is hard of hearing and her back legs are getting weaker. I think all of these symptoms just upset me because I know she is getting older and what is coming down the road and I am not liking it. Also, I leave to go see my parents Sunday (mo mom has Alzheimers) so we leave her at the kennel of the vets and I am worried about that. I do not have anyone who can stay that will be home to monitor her and take care of her.

[molly muffin]

Touch base when you get back from visiting you mom and let us know how things went with Sophie.

I send my regards concerning your moms Alzheimers as my dad had it and it can be so heartbreaking. Those visits though are so important.

[Sophiesmom]

As you may know I am away visiting my parents and helping out as my mom has Alzheimer's. I did not like leaving Sophie but also cannot neglect seeing my parents.
Sophie always stays at the kennel where our vet is.
I feel good knowing she is close by in case something arises and the people there love her.

I got a call from the vet this morning saying she did not eat last night or this morning and has bloody diarrhea. She felt it could be due to the medication and asked to do a cortisol test which I readily agreed to.
She said once she does the test she will know more and if her level is too high would lower her dosage to every other day. She is taking 10 mg (?) and she is 17 pounds.
If it is not the cortisol then she has to look for other reasons.
Has anyone heard of these symptoms before and how dangerous is this?
Thank you for all your help. I hate being so far away from her and feel terrible she is there alone and not feeling well. Tough to have aging sick parents and a sick dog at the same time :(

[lulusmom]

I have merged your last post with your original thread so that we can keep all of Sophies information in one place.

I am sorry to hear that Sophie isn't well right now. If Sophie's dose of Vetoryl is too high, it could have dropped her cortisol too low which is what your vet suspects. Symptoms are vomiting, diarrhea and no appetite. The acth stimulation test will let your vet know if that is the case. Can you please get the results of that test and post them here? There are usually only two numbers, a pre and post stimulated result, so you can get them over the phone from your vet. We will be looking forward to your update and will be keeping fingers and paws crossed that Sophie starts to feel better very soon.

Glynda

[labblab]

I'm so sorry Sophie is sick. I know how much you hated to leave her in the first place, and this makes things even harder. If cortisol isn't the issue, though, perhaps she is just experiencing some colitis due to feeling somewhat stressed by being boarded. Bloody diarrhea can result from intestinal irritation; all my dogs have had it on occasion. If that's the problem, resting the GI tract followed by small bland meals can be helpful. The good thing is that your vet is there with Sophie, and undoubtedly has Rx food and intestinal soothing medications.

How soon will you be able to head back home, or do you know yet?

Marianne

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you so much for your replies. I am still waiting to hear what the results are and will definitely get the numbers from her.
Yes, I was worried about leaving her but she is used to going to this kennel and I felt better at least knowing if anything happened she was at the best place possible.

I am scheduled to come home next Friday. I cannot tell you how awful it is not having answers and worrying about Sophie and being here trying to help out my dad and seeing them failing a bit as well. My dad is pretty active but taking care of my mom wears on him and I have been cleaning up after them and cooking. He has gotten bad about picking up after himself. Luckily they have a cleaner come every two weeks but eventually something will have to be done and my dad is as stubborn as can be. Oh well, one thing at a time. Again, thanks for the suggestions and support. I wasn't sure if this was a normal side effect or something more serious to worry about. Since she is 14 1/2 I always worry the slightest thing could get bad fast at her age.
Will let you know numbers as soon as I hear back.

[molly muffin]

Okay, if the cortisol is low, then no, don't drop the dosage and go to every day.
Stop it completely, wait for symptoms to come back, retest and if needed start her on a lower dose.

Colitis is a very real possibility. My dog who boards at the same vet all the time, often gets diarrhea when there and doesn't eat as well. It's a real bugger in fact and we are glad when she has had a good stay with no diarrhea. Remember too that with her cortisol coming down, she could stress even more easily and not have a bit buffer of cortisol to get her past it. (that is just a thought and a guess on my part of course)

We do know what it is like to have aging parents to take care of that you don't live close too. Well I do anyhow and my dad had alzheimers too. We went with an assisted living facility. As long as my mom was with him, he was okay, but when she passed, he had to go to one with an alarm system specifically for alzheimers patients so they couldn't walk out. Sundowning can be a real problem for them.
Just sharing my experience with that sort of situation also.

[Sophiesmom]

Thanks for your input Molly. My mom is in a wheelchair so not to much mobility. She can push the wheelchair walking behind it for very short distances but that is it. My dad does everything. Ive suggested assisted living but of course my dad says no. If something happened to my dad she'd have to go in a nursing facility. She cant do anything for herself.

The vet called and said Sophie has not had anymore diarrhea yet she will not eat. She just gave her a steroid and gave her water under her skin (assuming IV?).
She says she seems peppier and will have the cortisol results tomorrow morning. I will hold onto the peppier part of the conversation and hope this will subside soon. Thanks for the support!

[Sophiesmom]

Good Morning,
The vet called and said Sophie seems to be back to her normal self and eating. No more diarrhea .
Her cortisol is 5.6
While doing the test to check her levels and look for Cushing it was 15.6. The vet said she is going to go every other day because of her tummy issues and will have her go back to daily once we return. She doesn't think the troubles are from the medication.
Just so glad she is back to normal.

[molly muffin]

So glad she is back to normal too. Yay

[judymaggie]

So glad that Sophie is back to her normal self! You said that the vet is going to go to "every other day". Is this referring to the steroids she was giving her?

[Sophiesmom]

Im sorry, no the Vetoryl will be given every other day till we return because of her tummy issues. She only gave her the steroids once.

[Harley PoMMom]

Good Morning,
The vet called and said Sophie seems to be back to her normal self and eating. No more diarrhea .

I too, am glad to hear that Sophie is feeling better, it is always so worrisome when they are not acting quite like themselves.


Her cortisol is 5.6
While doing the test to check her levels and look for Cushing it was 15.6.

Can you clarify those numbers for me, is the 5.6 her pre value and the 15.6 the post?


The vet said she is going to go every other day because of her tummy issues and will have her go back to daily once we return. She doesn't think the troubles are from the medication.
Just so glad she is back to normal.

Every-other-day dosing is generally not a good option. Since the medication remains active in the body for no longer than 24 hours, skipping a day only sets up a roller-coaster of higher cortisol one day, lower cortisol the next.

Since Vetoryl is known to cause gastric issues Pepcid AC may help with that, it should be administered about 30 minutes before the Vetoryl is given. Maybe talk this over with Sophie's vet and see if this could be a viable option for her.

Hugs, Lori

[Sophiesmom]

Hello I am back! Got held up flying home due to snow.
My son picked Sophie up and I came home to find Sophie has lost weight! She was only 17 pounds to begin with.
I called the kennel to see how much we owed so we could pay by cc over the phone. The bill was 1100.00!
Not only that but the girl who I spoke with had the vets office call me back because unbeknownst to me they've kept her at the vets. On top of this, she has been on an antibiotic (no idea why) and tummy meds. No more vetoryl.
They told me they are giving her ID for her tummy (wet) and giving her small meals. I thought this very odd. Well, now I know why. She is eating 1/4 cup of wet at most and won't eat the dry.
There is obviously something going on that I am not aware of and they didn't feel the need to tell me (or were afrail to). I have to wonder why they didn't call me to tell me what was going on and the girl told me she had vomited. They called me at first when she was sick with diarrhea but then called and said she was great and back to normal. Yes her spunkiness is but not her eating!
You can trust I will be calling them this morning. Shouldn't I have been called?
Maybe because I've been gone so long they assume I do not care about her? I have a mother with Alzheimers I have to visit and give my dad a break from all the work.
I have my grandchildren Thursday to Monday and we are supposed to bring my grandson overnight for two nights to play in his hockey tournament. We are going to have to figure this out. One of us may have to drive back and forth. My daughter is away and my son-in-law is in the coast guard and out to sea till Easter.

It is clear something is wrong although she is still spunky and seems happy. I don't get it!
Is she just slowly failing?

[Sophiesmom]

Sophie ate more of her soft food and seems ok otherwise. It seems like it is hwr,stomach that is the biggest problem. Anyone else have these problems with using Vetoryl?

[molly muffin]

Over stressed maybe from your being away, so not eating properly then stressing causing diarrhea and the cortisol ups and downs, it could have alll come together and compounded the problem.
It's good she is eating some soft food, so I'd just give her small meals several times a day, not too high in fat content to start out with till her system sort of settles down.
A small bit of pure pumpkin (not the pie style just the plain canned pumpkin) will help with diarrhea too. Now you are home you can try these things out and see if she doesn't rebound.

[Sophiesmom]

Thanks so much for your reply. Sophie seems fine just thin and tired.
The weird thing is,she knows the girls at the kennel and has never had a problem. I am seriously thinking it was the med.
Keeping an eye on her and will get her some pumpkin. Thank you for the suggestion! Much appreciated!

[WeLoveAthena]

Our Athena was diagnosed on the 9th officially and started her Vetoryl on the 9th. She has not had side effects from it. She sleeps more and she had backed off from eating much but tonight she seemed overly hungry again. That's all we have noticed.

Hope your baby will feel better soon.

EDIT: PS: We have used Pumpkin as well in the past for any issues with diarrhea. It helped alot.

[tank&kat]

My dog had a reduction in appetite at first as well. It didn't last long at all. There were a couple days he didn't eat his full breakfast but always finished it in the afternoon time. Call the vet if it she doesn't eat for more than 24 hours.

~Katherine

[Sophiesmom]

Hi Eveyone just checking in and reading up on everyone' stories. It is so hard to believe so many deal with such a frustrating and difficult disease. When I talk to people about Sophie many have never heard of Cushings.
Sophie is eating the wet food more so than the dry and has started peeing in the house again. She was doing well for awhile. I noticed her eating dirt the other day and know that is a sign of the kidney disease. Ive been trying to mix the KD (dry) in with her wet ID food. I am not giving her any medication for the Cushings since she got so sick (vomiting, very bad diarrhea) from it. I went to buy her dog food from the kennel the other day an the girl there told me there was another dog boarded there on the Vetoryl and they kept the dog on it and it had the same symptom as Sophie and is not doing well at all. I do not understand why you would keep the dog on the medicine if it is making her sick.
I am going to try and order some type of diaper contraption for her though I dread doing. I have heard from someone here Peekeeper is good and someone else told me about Tinkeltrousers. I am praying one of these works. We are in the midst of fixing up or home to sell and I can tell you pee stains on a new floor or rug are not going to be good. It is very stressful and no matter how often i put her out she will pee. I had her on my bed the other day and ran downstairs for two minutes and when I came back up she had jumped off the bed and squated on my bedroom rug and was peeing! She didn't even try to come downstairs to go to the door and I had just put her out recently before this. Thanks for listening. Any advice please let me know. Frustrated and heartbroken.

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that she is having so many of the problems with kidneys and peeing in the house. I haven't gotten to the point of using peebands with my girl so can't offer much advice there, but others have.

I struggle with getting my girl to eath the kidney food too, she just doesn't like it, and spits it out of her mouth on the floor next to her bowl and then eats the stuff I mix in to try to get her to eat. It can be seriously frustrating.

Have you tried the little green machine? Bissel. I have one and when molly does have an accident it is very easy to clean up with that and I don't end up with any stains, even on the good wool rugs. Yikes and if you use the bissel dog odor remover in it, then I haven't noticed problem with odors after an accident either. So that is a thought.

[Sophiesmom]

Thanks so much for your reply.
Sophie spits hers out next to her bowl to if I mix it so I've resorted to mushing the cans of ID food and adding a trickle of water. This way she cannot eat just the wet canned food and it flavors the dry kibble. Always trying to find ways to trick them aren't we?
I have the Bissell stain remover but because we are going to sell our home and will be replacing the carpets, I feel it is safer for her to wear diapers when roaming about. I hope your fur baby is doing well. It is tough when they age and their bodies start breaking down.

[judymaggie]

Hi--just wanted to mention another tip re getting a dog to eat. I am finding that, if I heat up Abbie's food for just a few seconds in the microwave, she is much more inclined to clean her bowl.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you! I will try that too!

[Sophiesmom]

We have noticed the last few days that Sophie seems to be changing. She isn't eating as much and sleeping more. She seems more lethargic and has thrown up bile a few times though still wags her tail, can climb the stairs etc. I feel as if the Ned is coming and obviously do not want her to suffer but right now she is still wagging her tail and eating. When do you know? Like I said, I don't want her to suffer but also do not want to do it if I can hold on. She is almost 15. What do you suggest?

[Harley PoMMom]

Is Sophie still taking 10 mg of Vetoryl? If so I would withhold her Vetoryl because it could be that her cortisol has dropped too low, which can happen even though a dog has been taking the same dose of Vetoryl for a period of time. If this were me, and if it has been a while since her last ACTH stimulation test I would have one performed to see where her cortisol level is.

[Sophiesmom]

Hi Harley,
She is not taking the Vetoryl. I
t made her very sick.
My husband said she ate more food and seems peppy this afternoon.
Maybe she had a bad morning?
I'm glad she's feeling better but obviously watching her closely. As long as she seems happy and eating I won't feel as if she is in pain or suffering. She refuses the KD but eats the ID soft food, just odd she didn't eat all this am. She usually eats it so fast she chokes sometimes and her lethargy this morning was out of the norm for her.

[DoxieMama]

When was the last time she took the Vetoryl?
When was the last ACTH test done?

[Sophiesmom]

She had the test done in January I believe and stopped the medication sometime in February.

She had been doing pretty well until the last two days even with the vomiting bile a few times she was eating all her food and peppy. No changes in her behavior.
She also has kidney disease and will be 15 July 1st.
I do not want to give her the medication (she was on the lowest dose) because she was so sick and from what the vet told me it only helps with the symptoms but does not help with the disease itself. I felt, at the time, I would rather have her be happy and feeling better than vomiting and diarrhea with the medication. Right now she seems to have sprung back to her normal self. I am very perplexed by her behavior this morning. Could she just be having trouble getting going in the morning? She has had a few morning where she leaves her food but then comes back to it later and eats it. Besides the fact of not wanting her to pass, I never ever want her to suffer or be in pain.

[Harley PoMMom]

I completely understand your decision in not treating and in your situation I would not treat as well. Quality of life for our furbabies is the utmost importance. With kidney disease they can get nauseated, Pepcid ac may help with that.

[DoxieMama]

Oh, I'm glad Sophie's not taking the medication when it makes her so sick.
How is she doing today?

[molly muffin]

Hopefully it was just an off morning for her and she is feeling better. I agree, Quality of Life is everything.

[Sophiesmom]

It is with a heavy heart that I tell you poor Sophie was going downhill quickly and we saw that she was not feeling well. I cannot tell you how hard it was to bring her to the vet and make such a hard decision. She was still wagging her tail when she saw us but barely eating even though she could still go up the stairs and bark at my husband when he ate. Our vet said it is better to put her down on a good day then wait till she is suffering. She had lost 4 lbs since February and her heartbeat went from over 100+ to 60+. I really like this vet as she is so kind and compassionate unlike another we had seen. She said Sophie had too many things going against her with the chronic Lyme, kidney disease, Cushings, it was too much.
She cried, the assistant cried, we all cried.
It broke my heart to have to do it but I know it was better for her. My husband and I still cannot believe she is gone. Just wanted to let everyone know. :(:(

[judymaggie]

I am so, so sorry that you had to let Sophie go. The decision to do so is an agonizing one and it sounds like you really did the best thing for Sophie. Please take care of yourself during this tough period and, hopefully, gain some peace knowing that Sophie is now pain free.

[Joan2517]

Such sad news...it is so hard to let them go. I am so sorry for your loss.

[DoxieMama]

Oh, I am so sorry for your loss. Please take care of yourself while you grieve.

RIP Sophie. Run free...

[molly muffin]

I am very sorry to hear that Sophie has passed.
My sincerest condolences to you and your husband.

[CharliesMum]

hiya, so sorry for your loss from this nasty horrible disease. This past week we have been preparing ourselves to put down our 17 yo JRT x Daschund. Reading what you went through is helping. We also have a lovely vet. We were about to go away on holiday, I hoped to take him back to some beautiful English countryside for the summer again after such a muddy wet winter. We had a nice few weeks booked at some really lovely campsites, couldn't wait to see him rub his face on the nice dry grass! Really had to look at his quality of life and take my heart and wanting to keep him with us out of the equation. He isn't wanting to eat, even bacon, so know he must feel really bad. Just want to fast forward the whole vet thing, I feel sick at the thought. Why do we love them so much?? xx best regards. Nicky, (Charlies Mum)

[gradona]

It is with a heavy heart that I tell you poor Sophie was going downhill quickly and we saw that she was not feeling well. I cannot tell you how hard it was to bring her to the vet and make such a hard decision. She was still wagging her tail when she saw us but barely eating even though she could still go up the stairs and bark at my husband when he ate. Our vet said it is better to put her down on a good day then wait till she is suffering. She had lost 4 lbs since February and her heartbeat went from over 100+ to 60+. I really like this vet as she is so kind and compassionate unlike another we had seen. She said Sophie had too many things going against her with the chronic Lyme, kidney disease, Cushings, it was too much.
She cried, the assistant cried, we all cried.
It broke my heart to have to do it but I know it was better for her. My husband and I still cannot believe she is gone. Just wanted to let everyone know. :(:(

I'm so sorry, I had to let my Boxer "Big Ben" go last Tuesday. Ben had many of the same symptoms as Sophie. I had a dog door put in in Feb because I could not keep up with the outdoor trips. In march he became very lethargic and a Stim test showed that his numbers were very low so between my vet and Cornell U it was decided to lower his dosage of Trilostane. He continued to decline in health. I made the decision last Tues that it was time. Even though my Vet agreed I still feel the guilt. Like you said, when do you really know that it's time. The only relief I get right now is knowing that he no longer has to deal with this horrible disease.

Hopefully time will heal both of us.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you so much for the support and thoughtful words.
Nicky I feel for you also having to make such a hard decision.
It is hard to accept they are so sick and even harder to make that awful decision but when you look at them and realize how bad they feel, keeping them going would be selfish. Gradona, I feel so bad for what you too had to go through. This is the one very bad thing of owning a pet. I was leaving for Florida the following day to check on my mom who has Alzheimers. It's been a terrible time for us. I know how painful it is to make the tough decision and I feel your heartache.
Know I am praying for you, Nicky and others facing this sad time of loss. Our pets are always there, always with us by our sides and to have them abruptly taken is something that is hard to get used to. Their presence completely gone is like a deep hole left in their place.
My deepest sympathy to you on the loss of your beloved boxer. XO

[budindian]

So very sorry to hear of Sophie passing. My heart goes out to you and your family.

[Sophiesmom]

Thank you so much.

[Tammysmom]

So sorry for the loss of your sweet Sophie. They are such a big part of our family. May all the happy times you shared comfort you. Brianna