Anyone had/has a Cushing's dog that has had vestibular disease?

[Eva Cicmirko]

My dog Max has been sick for a year now, the urine test was positive, the next one was not and recent ultrasounds show that his adrenal glads are indicating Cushings. If I understand correctly, Cushings can affect bowels and pancreas. Max has had problems in areas that indicate to me that he is Cushings. My vet calls it pre Cushings. Now Max has had a bout of Vestibular disease which makes him unbalanced. I am wondering if his current behaviour is also attributable to Cushings rather than Vestibular,. For example, losing strength in the back legs. He is a Maltese/Cavalier cross. Has anyone had experience with Vestibular? Max has just turned 12 and was very lively a year ago. Thanks Eva

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Eva,

Welcome to you and Max! I am sorry that Max is having some issues and hopefully we can figure out what is going on with dear Max. In order for us to do that we need to know more about your sweet boy, in this way we can provide you with our best feedback, and the way we find this information is through a lot of questions. So here goes some of mine:

1) Could you get copies of all tests that were done on Max and post any abnormalities that are listed? With respect to the blood chemistry and complete blood count (CBC), you need only post the highs and lows and please include the normal reference ranges.

3) The urine test you mentioned is this the urine cortisol:creatinine ratio (UC:CR) test? Has the vet performed any other Cushing's tests, such as the LDDS or ACTH stimulation?

4) Besides the rear end weakness does Max display any of these common signs of Cushing's: excessive drinking/urinating, ravenous appetite, skin/hair issues, exercise intolerance?

5) Does Max have diluted urine along with a low specific gravity?

6) Does Max have any underlying illness that he is taking medication for? And if so, what is it and what is the medication?

7) Does Max have the peripheral form of vestibular disease? And is he displaying some of these symptoms: head tilting, circling and stumbling jerking eye movements from side to side or up and down?

I know there have been a couple members on the forum where their dog went through vestibular and here are some links to some posts:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showpost.php?p=22842&postcount=385

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21478&postcount=323

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21716&postcount=326


Cushing's is when a dog's system is producing an excessive amount of cortisol, and yes, that elevated cortisol can cause systemic damage, however this takes a long period of time because Cushing's is a slow progressing disease and moves a snail's pace.

Please know we are here for you and Max and we will help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Hello, Lori has gotten you off to a good start with her questions that will help us to give you better feed back.

The LDDS test and ACTH test she mentioned are the key tests used for deteriming Cushings and cortisol levels.

High cortisol does cause weakening of tendons and ligaments which can in turn cause the rear legs to become weaker.

I am assuming that the ultrasound showed adrenal glands enlarged?

[Eva Cicmirko]

Hello Harley and Molly Muffin. Thank you for your reply and your concern. I was stumbling around the net trying to find info on Cushings and found this site. Great, really great. To answer some of your questions. The wee test was the first test you take followed by the LDDS test. Urine test came back positive, the LDDS test ( done in May 2014) was negative. He does display other symptoms such as excessive drinking and weeing, panting, he has had 2 siezures, pancreatitis and IBS. Plus he has a bit of arthritis in his back legs and had an X ray taken which detected spondoliosis (spelling??) but only small at the back of the spine and going onto the tail. His hair on the back was thinning and I think he is developing a port belly. You can see when he lays down. My best friend's dog Lady has Cushings and the symptoms are the same. Plus Max never did his business in the house; now when he has to go, he has to go. He was having trouble with IBD and I thought he may have cancer because he was sick for ages so I did an ultrasound to find that yes, his adrenal glads were bigger than ususal. Luckily no cancer. In regards to vestibular, it is the peripheral form and he does circle and have ahead tilt to the right side. I have scheduled another LDDS test for tomorrow (23-12). The vet has been saying pre cushings but I think its developed more now and think that it might be good to start Max on the tablets and see if he improves. Lady improved immensely on the tablets. Max is presently not on any other medication.

Thank you for the links to those sites. I am new to this site and appreciate the feedback I have had already. If Max's test results come back negative again, I think I'll scream as something is wrong with my Max and since the pituatry glad controls everything virtually, my Maxhas just had one problem after another this year, mostly with bowels and pancreatitis.

Thanks and keep in touch Eva:)

[Eva Cicmirko]

Hi Lori. Thankyou for those links and I have read them. Is there any way I can contact these dog lovers. My Max is in the sixth week of his vestibular and he does some of the things described in the posts. I am thinking also, will he ever get any better?? Thanks for the hugs, Max and I need 'em.

[Harley PoMMom]

I believe there is a really good chance that will you see improvement with Max's vestibular disease, it can take a long while though. I will also provide thread links, which I should have done :o, to those member's posts that I previously included: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1354

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551

Regarding the LDDS test, a negative result on the LDDS is usually a reliable rule-out for Cushing's. However, a small percentage of dogs who truly have the disease will present with a "false" negative on the test. In a situation where a dog otherwise exhibits classic symptoms of Cushing's, there may be value in performing an ACTH stimulation test. One of the top renown veterinarians that specializes in endocrinology, Dr. Bruyette, states this in one of his articles:
When interpreting LDDS test results, first evaluate the eight-hour postdexamethasone administration cortisol concentration. If it is above the reference range, the dog probably has hyperadrenocorticism (false positive results may occur in dogs with nonadrenal illness). If it is within the reference range, either the dog does not have hyperadrenocorticism or there is a 5% to 10% chance that the dog has PDH. (The dog may have early pituitary disease and the pituitary gland is still responding to a pharmacologic dose of dexamethasone by decreasing ACTH production, thereby reducing serum cortisol concentrations.) In those cases, an ACTH stimulation test is warranted. Full article can be found here: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/clinquiz-interpreting-low-dose-dexamethasone-suppression-test-results

Oh that darn pancreatitis, man that can be a bugger to get under control. My Harley was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis which he never showed any symptoms of, it was found on an ultrasound and we monitored it with the spec cPL test.

Let us know how the LDDS test goes.

Hugs, Lori

[zoesmom]

Hi Eva - Lori alerted me to your Max and his vestibular 'disease'. We went thru this with our Zoe a few years ago and although at first I was terrified that it was something worse, her condition slowly improved. It also happened around this same time of year (her old thread, 'Zoe the Energizer Doggy' indicates that it started on 12/10 - here's the page link to where her CVS started. As you will see, I was not sure what was going on at first, and very very concerned.)

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551&page=12

Zoe had been treated for cushings for about 4 years (?) at that point. The two (CVD & cushings) aren't always connected but some cush dogs do develop CVD - usually those with pituitary-based cushings. Then again, dogs who don't have cushings can also develop this condition - which is sometimes called something like 'old dog vestibular disease'. :)


Zoe spent a week at the vet hospital, unable to stand without falling over. She had the head tilt, the darting eyes, and all the other classic symptoms. Walking was impossible and eating and drinking and going potty were a real challenge for her for awhile. She ate and drank while lying down. True, it's difficult to watch, but Zoe gradually got better. It was probably later in January before she was able to take short walks on a leash. Before that, we used a sling to help her get around and go potty. She eventually was able to walk fairly normally on her own although she did continue to be slightly off-balance at times. But her most severe symptoms began to resolve by the end of Dec. It's my understanding that the recovery time for these dogs can vary greatly from dog to dog. More severe cases, as Zoe's was, can take a bit longer. So it's hard to watch but try to be patient.
Sue (zoesmom)

[Eva Cicmirko]

HI Sue. My Max is in his 7th week of recovery from Vestibular. The vet seems to think that he is 85% improved but he drinks a lot, pees a lot, sometimes in the house because we are not quick enough; seems to be uncoordinated like he does not know where he is going ( like he is blind) and bumps into things. He is also shakey on his back legs but can walk on rough surfaces. How long did it take for your dog to recover? Thanks Eva

[LAL]

Hi Sue -

My Nickie also had the vestibular disorder earlier this year. The neurologist prescribed antibiotics for 2 months. I gave her probiotics as well. She did recover, but had a short setback later. It has not come back. It can be a lenghthy recover. Hope your babe gets better soon.

[Eva Cicmirko]

Hi. Can you recall the name of the antibiotics? Max had Baytril for 10 days. What probiotics did you give? How long before your dog recovered. Thanks Eva

[molly muffin]

I like the probiotic foriflora.

My dog never tested positive on the LDDS, some don't, but was consistently high on the ACTH. Even if something else is causing the cortisol to be high (if the ACTH comes back high that is), long term it can cause damage. We are on treatment with trilstane and monitor the ACTH quite often.

[Eva Cicmirko]

Hi. How long before your dog recovered? I think Max has had slight re occurrences over the new yr.

[molly muffin]

Molly never had vestibular problems, but I use a probiotic for gastro issues.

Did the vestibular issues come back you mean?

How is he doing now?

[Roxie]

My dog Max has been sick for a year now, the urine test was positive, the next one was not and recent ultrasounds show that his adrenal glads are indicating Cushings. If I understand correctly, Cushings can affect bowels and pancreas. Max has had problems in areas that indicate to me that he is Cushings. My vet calls it pre Cushings. Now Max has had a bout of Vestibular disease which makes him unbalanced. I am wondering if his current behaviour is also attributable to Cushings rather than Vestibular,. For example, losing strength in the back legs. He is a Maltese/Cavalier cross. Has anyone had experience with Vestibular? Max has just turned 12 and was very lively a year ago. Thanks Eva

Hello my little doxie has had several bouts with vesitbular and it was really scary. Once was pre-diagnosis of cushings. First time she couldn't get her balance. Was vomiting and her eyes were twitching back and forth. Vet gave her dramamine and something else for her stomach and in a few days she was doing better and then about a year later this passed june she was diagnosed with cushings. Then this fall she had another small vestibular bout and I was afraid we were going to lose her then.

If Max is losing strength in the rear legs I would attribute that to chushings. If just off balance I would say vestibular.

Good luck!

[molly muffin]

How is Max doing? How is his stability?