Hungry is an understatement!

[Woodsplinter]

Hi everybody! I'm new to this forum but have had Cushings dogs for several years.
I've searched this forum as best I can but can't find anything specific.
I currently have two dogs with Cushings. Both are 12 yrs old.
A black lab mix and a small terrier mix.

The lab, Molly, was diagnosed 6 months ago and has been on Trilostane since then. Her labs indicate she is appropriately medicated, but her appetite is out of control.

Recently she has started barking at 1:00- 2:00 AM until I get up. I thought she needed to go out but discovered she was HUNGRY!
They both eat at 8:00AM and 5:30 PM. Molly is overweight which further complicates things.

So, does anybody know anything I can do to decrease her hunger?
The vets don't know and I hate to see Molly suffering- I don't know where else to turn. (I've tried adding veggies to her food but it makes no difference.)

Thank you.

[mytil]

Hi and welcome to our site. Wow, you certainly have your hands full with two cushpups.

Has your Molly been checked for diabetes? Excessive hunger is an early sign (glucose is not making it to the brain; glucose levels in the brain are too low for the brain to register that it is receiving food - so is signaling I am very hungry).

When you get the chance post Molly's results of her most recent ACTH monitoring test so we can see the cortisol levels. Are there any other symptoms she is exhibiting?

How much Trilostane is Molly taking and what is her current weight?

How is your other cushpup doing?

Sorry for all the questions but the more we know the better we can help.
Terry

[Woodsplinter]

Terry, thanks for the reply.

Molly has been tested but does not have diabetes.
She is on 37 mg twice a day. Doc says this is the max for her based on her cortisol levels. (I'll try to find and post later.)
Molly weighs 87 lbs, up from 71. I know, that's terrible. The weight and hunger have been a monumental challenge.
Taz is our other dog. She too has a weight problem. She started on Trilostane but that did nothing for her appetite. She is now on Mitotane and her appetite has finally calmed down.

A week ago we had to put Molly's sister, Dolly, to sleep. She had diabetes, and was just diagnosed with Cushings. We could never get the diabetes under control, which led to the Cushings testing. Dolly was on Trilostane for a few days when she began having seizures.
Don't know if they were related to the Trilostane but she never recovered from the seizures and we had to let her go.

Thanks for any help, Mark

[SandyH]

I also am new to this forum but not new to doggie care. Mine also has turned into a foodaholic. Can you feed 3 times a day and decrease the kibble and increase the vegies? I keep defrosted green beans and carrots in my fridge for Riley and add to his meals, sometimes I have to give him an extra bowl because he is begging and hungry. Or maybe just give her a bowl of vegies before bed to get her thru the night?

I am sorry to hear about Dolly.

[Squirt's Mom]

She is on 37 mg twice a day. Doc says this is the max for her based on her cortisol levels. (I'll try to find and post later.)

Please do post those results because 74 mg a day is below the recommended starting dose for a dog of her weight. That recommendation is 1mg/lb. I am truly wondering if her cortisol isn't still too high and that is why you are seeing such strong hunger. Sadly we have seen too many times that the vet didn't know how to read the ACTH results, not knowing the range given by the lab is not the range used for a dog on treatment. So we really like to see those results especially when signs are saying the dog is not controlled. ;)

[Woodsplinter]

I also am new to this forum but not new to doggie care. Mine also has turned into a foodaholic. Can you feed 3 times a day and decrease the kibble and increase the vegies? I keep defrosted green beans and carrots in my fridge for Riley and add to his meals, sometimes I have to give him an extra bowl because he is begging and hungry. Or maybe just give her a bowl of vegies before bed to get her thru the night?

I am sorry to hear about Dolly.

Thanks for the reply Sandy- I'll give that a try.

[Woodsplinter]

Please do post those results because 74 mg a day is below the recommended starting dose for a dog of her weight. That recommendation is 1mg/lb. I am truly wondering if her cortisol isn't still too high and that is why you are seeing such strong hunger. Sadly we have seen too many times that the vet didn't know how to read the ACTH results, not knowing the range given by the lab is not the range used for a dog on treatment. So we really like to see those results especially when signs are saying the dog is not controlled. ;)

Ok, I'll call the office to get the lab results. I forgot to mention that Molly has also been very "gassy" lately. Don't know what that means if anything. Perhaps too many green beans?

[mytil]

Thanks for the additional information.

It does seem like a low dose given her weight, but as Leslie mentioned it would be good to see the actual results of the ACTH test to see.

I am so very sorry about your Dolly girl. I have added her name to our very special remembrance list in our In Loving Memory section (you can let me know the exact date and I can certainly link a photo of her to this - just send to our k9cushings@gmail.com.

Keep us posted.
Terry

[Woodsplinter]

Thank you Terry!
Finally, I got the numbers. That last time I spoke to my vet she said Molly was "normal".

The test results showed Molly had a Cortisol level of 4.1. However the "normal" range listed with the test results is 8-17.
(The "before" test conducted one hour prior was 2.8 with a range of 1-5)

My vet is on vacation for two weeks so I'll have to wait to discuss this with her.

[Renee]

Actually, those numbers sound right in range.

The extreme hunger should lessen as her cortisol is kept in range long-term.

I went through periods of this with my cushing dog too. She would wake me up at night to eat. Part of it was hunger, but, part of it was also that I had negatively reinforced her behavior that if she woke me up, I would give her a treat. I too thought she needed to go outside. But, what she really wanted was food.

I stopped getting up, and she eventually learned nothing was happening, so she stopped too. A snack before bed might help a bit.

[molly muffin]

The range of 8 - 17 is for a dog that isn't being treated with any medication.
The range for a dog who is being treated is 1.5 - 5ug and can go up to 9.0 if symptoms are controlled on trilostane (vetroyl). For miotane the range is 1.5 - 5.0ug.

That being said if her pre ACTH was 2.8 and her post is 4.1ug, then your vet is correct and she is controlled.

Maybe it will take a bit longer for her hunger issues to go down, also it could be that she is conditioned out of habit to want the food? I don't know, but since she woke you up wanting food, try the green beans perhaps?

How is her thyroid?

[Woodsplinter]

Thanks Renee.:)

I'll try the snack before dinner and will stop feeding her when she wakes me up.

Mark

[Woodsplinter]

The range of 8 - 17 is for a dog that isn't being treated with any medication.
The range for a dog who is being treated is 1.5 - 5ug and can go up to 9.0 if symptoms are controlled on trilostane (vetroyl). For miotane the range is 1.5 - 5.0ug.

That being said if her pre ACTH was 2.8 and her post is 4.1ug, then your vet is correct and she is controlled.

Maybe it will take a bit longer for her hunger issues to go down, also it could be that she is conditioned out of habit to want the food? I don't know, but since she woke you up wanting food, try the green beans perhaps?

How is her thyroid?

Thank you for the test info. No problems with her thyroid so maybe it will just take some more time. At least now I have some ideas to try.

Thank you everybody- you are wonderful "Mom's & Dad's"!
Mark, Molly & Taz

[molly muffin]

checking in to see how things are going. Have you tried the green beans? If so has it helped at all/

[Woodsplinter]

checking in to see how things are going. Have you tried the green beans? If so has it helped at all/

We have been using green beans off and on for several months, actually, but they don't seem to help.

I started giving Molly a small snack just before bedtime which seems to help. She still wakes me around 1:00 AM, but I don't give her anything to eat. She is barking much less after that, realizing no food is forthcoming. Hopefully she will give up on the late night barking as she learns "Dad" isn't going to cave!

Thank you for checking! :)

[Renee]

Sounds like everything is going well!!

They sure do quickly find out how to train us, lol. I had to go through this same thing with my girl. She hasn't woken me up for food in quite some time.

Good job dad!