Cushings and Diabetes

[crysblaz]

Hello everyone,
I'm needing some advice.

Background info:: Our 17 yr old pit bull, Brock was diagnosed diabetic just over a year ago. From the beginning, we've had issues with getting his insulin levels within a "normal" range. After 9 months of adjustments and increases, he is on 18 units of Levemir a day and on a diet of Hill's Science W/D. About 2 months ago, I tried to switch his food to a different Diabetic dog food and he broke out in hives and then scratched them open and then it tuned into lesions. The vet diagnosed it as a staph infection and we’ve been on multiple types of antibiotic and immune booster shots, daily baths and antibiotic creams trying to clear it up. After 2 months of it clearing up mostly and then coming back and spreading, the vet did a biopsy and found that it is a reoccurring staph infection and calcinosis cutis and that he has Cushing’s. The vet doesn’t think that the normal treatments will help at all and that we’d be better off just enjoying the remaining time we have with him. That the treatments have a small chance of working, are extremely expensive and have such a small likelihood of working on Brock, and would likely do more harm to him than help.

After reading about the treatments online, I really don’t think that we want to even try them. My mother is big into holistic treatments and essential oils/herbs/etc and thinks there may be something out there that could help. I realize that Brock is 17 and has had a long and happy life and I can’t expect him to live forever…I just want him to be able to enjoy what time he has and be comfortable.

So my question is this: Has anyone had any success with holistic treatments, if so which ones? I know there isn’t a CURE, but even something to help ease him and even help with the infection or symptoms of Cushing’s. Anyone know what I can expect if we DON’T treat it? How quickly can I expect him to go downhill? (I realize that every animal is different and don’t expect an EXACT timeframe here)


Thanks for any reply's.

[Squirt's Mom]

At 17 I would be very hesitant to start treatment myself unless there was a compelling reason and my pup was otherwise in good health. Sadly, without getting the cortisol back to a more normal level, the CC will continue to spread...and nothing will lower the cortisol enough other than the traditional treatments with either Lysodren or Vetoryl.

I do have a question tho - in all those treatments he got for the itching, were they any steroids involved and is he still taking any steroids or having any steroids applied topically? Is anyone in the house using a steroid cream? I ask because there is a form of Cushing's called Iatrogenic that is caused by external sources - like meds with steroids, including topical (which includes ears and eyes). This form can be cured by weaning the pup off of the steroids. So that would be where I looked first - searching for any steroids that he is being given to take or use.

I also want to caution you against the use of essential oils with dogs and cats. There is a liver enzyme needed to process the toxicity of EOs - cats have NONE and dogs have little of this enzyme. By the time you notice there is a problem, it is usually too late - organ failure has already begun. I know the current hype is to use EOs for everything with everyone, including human infants. But the hype is nothing more than a selling technique perfected by the MLMs selling EOs. EOs contain the most volatile, and toxic, part of the plant...and the part that has the least use. The whole plant is much more beneficial to the body than the volatile oils alone. I use EOs in my herbal salves but I never, ever use them on my dogs until their final day in this life. And the EOs are used sparingly in the salves because a tiny bit goes a loooong way. 1 oz of Rosemary EO lasted about 3 years. ;) So I am not opposed to EOs themselves but I am opposed to the use of them in harmful ways.....and using them on dogs can be harmful.

If your mom wants to go the Holistic route, get with a Holistic vet and please don't try to wing this. Herbs are drugs in their own right and should be handled as such. There are herbs and TCM herbal formulas that have been used with some success....but none I have known to use herbs were dealing with CC. I would talk to a Holistic vet.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more. It is wonderful that Brock has lived to such a ripe old age and that speaks highly of the care he has received throughout his life.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Harley PoMMom]

Hello and welcome to you and Brock! You will see that I have moved your thread to our main "Questions and Discussion" forum -- this way, more people are likely to view it and reply to it.

With Brock having diabetes I highly recommend that you join our sister site, www.k9diabetes.com. The members there know their stuff and can answer any questions and address any concerns you may have. By being a member of both forums, you will definitely have the best of both worlds.

It will help us a great deal if you will share more details about Brock's current symptoms, and the diagnostic testing that pointed to Cushing's. If a CBC/chemistry blood panel was done recently, could you post all the abnormal values with their reporting units and reference ranges? If an urinalysis was done, we are interested in those results too. What diagnostic tests were done that identified his Cushing's? Uncontrolled diabetes can cause false positive results from the tests for Cushing's, so were these diagnostic test/s performed when Brock's diabetes was under control? Besides the diabetes, does Brock have any other underlying illness that he is taking medication for?

Sorry for all those questions but the more we know about sweet Brock the better our feedback will be. Please know we will help in any way we can, and do not hesitate to ask all the questions you have.

Hugs, Lori

[crysblaz]

The vet has been very careful about staying away from anything with steroids in this long battle, because it would have worsened his diabetes. In the last 2 months, he's had 3 different type of antibiotics/antifungals with only minor help at all, Cephalexin and ketoconazole i believe but the one that seems to knock the infection down the most is ciprofloxacin (human drug that treats UTIs), 2 shots of X-stem (to boost his immune system, Levemir (for the diabetes) and a daily pill for hypothyroidism. We've had topical treatments of silver sulfadiazine cream, iodine and then clorhexidine to dry out the staph infection, and 2 different types of medicated shampoos.

The CC is actually fairly under control and has gotten better in the last few weeks. The hard plaques went almost all the way down his back and was creeping down his sides and now its only on portions of his back and hasn't moved any further.

Has anyone tried Cushex drops? looks kinda gimmicky to me but you never know these days.

[crysblaz]

The vet did a biopsy and that is when she discovered the CC. He has been a diagnosed diabetic for just over a year now and we've never really gotten the diabetes under control. After trying multiple insulin types, the one that worked reasonably well is Levemir, which is a human insulin 10x stronger than the normal ones that work on dogs. We started at 8 units and are now at 18 per day. This dosage will get his glucose level down to about 200ish, which is the best we are able to do.

The vet has told us that since he is not responding to insulin, it may be Cushings, but then he stared responding to the dosage and it wasn't brought up again. Until recently when the CC and the skin infection showed up.

His current symptoms are: Excessive thirst and urination, excessive hunger, weakness in his back legs, the CC and skin infection that won't seem to go away, loss of hair, lack of energy, pot-bellied abdomen, he has cataract in both eyes, he was overweight when we first noticed the diabetes but has since lost a lot of weight and now looks gaunt, and where the hair on his back has fallen out the skin is a dark greyish color.

I know that without treatment of any kind (other than the diabetes) he will go downhill fast and I'm trying to prepare myself for this. The vet said that if we wanted to try the treatments she would do them, but didn't think he was strong enough or it would benefit him very much at all. Just in the last week he has diminished considerably and I'm almost to the point of thinking it would be kinder to just let him go....the cost of the treatments isn't an issue, i just don't want him to be suffering just so I don't have to say goodbye.

[Wally P's Mom]

Hello:

Two and a half years ago, my dog was diagnosed with diabetes, too. His BG was all over the road and not controllable. I did the UTenn panel and it was determined that Fritz had Cushings, also. His BG was more easily controlled, but for him, a new normal was established. 80-120 was no longer normal. Keeping him in the 200's was. It is easier to treat a dog with a higher BG than one that is too low. Yes, we gave him trilostane and he eventually became Addisons.

The symptoms described are a lot like Fritz's. His coat did become quite ugly during this, but he now has a beautiful coat. He lost his eyesight about a year ago. We make due.

He is 16 years old now. His age is creeping up on him. Would I have traded away this time spent with him? No. Have I discussed the end with him? Yes. Is he ready? No. Believe me there have been times where I thought he would of quit.

EO are not applied directly to Fritz, but I have diffused lavender in our bedroom while we sleep. He rests better.

Medications that he currently takes includes daily pred, monthly DOCP (both for Addisons) and either 1 or 2u of insulin (for diabetes). (Fritz weighs about 15lbs.) There are days his BG is all over the map, but we expect that.

I agree with the others have said, make sure your dog is in otherwise good health. Both of these conditions are manageable, but requires your time. Even a diabetic Addisonian dog is manageable. You are your dog's advocate and you know your dog best.

Fritz and I are pretty good examples of that, plus we got a really good vet.

Marge and Fritz