15 year old Miniature Dachshund - Roxie is now in heaven

[Roxie]

Hello, I have a 15 year old miniature Dachshund who just a month or so ago started showing signs of cushings disease. Increased thirst, increased appetite and a little loss of hair on her tail. Thinking back on it she hasn't scratched or itched since going back to last fall which is unusual for her. The Vet said that could be because of cushings because it is like them getting a steroid shot. They ordered up regular blood work and her white counts were a little low and her ALP liver count was high but ALT was normal.

This week they did the low dex suppression test and sent the blood results to the U of I and the Dr. called back and said it is cushings. So now they want to start her on Vetoryl 10mg. Do the symptoms and blood work definitively diagnose cushings?


After reading some of bad side effects and everything about Vetoryl at her age I am really questioning whether we should start her on it?:(

She is still doing good for her age but has increased thirst(and more urination to go with it), increased appetite and a little hair loss on her tail but none else where.

Thank you so much for any advice!


Edit-I forgot to mention our beloved little Roxie weighs 17 lbs.

[Squirt's Mom]

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[Roxie]

Here is the blood work from her cbc.

Edit-The fine print on the vetoryl really has me worried about giving it to my little dog at her age. Reading about young healthy dogs passing away from being on it at 3x-5x standard dose scares me. I just don't want to make her suffer from side effects or make her worse. What do you guys recommend for a 15 year old dog?:(

WBC 4.5
LYM .46
MON .03
RBC 6.84
HGB 14.2
HCT 47.31
MCV 69
MCH 20.7
MCHC 29.9
RDWc 15.5%


ALB 4.1 range 2.5-4.4
ALP 1070* range 20-150
ALT 90 range 10-118
AMY 469 range 200-1200
TBIL 0.3 range .1-.6
BUN 16 range 7-25
CA 11.4 range 8.6-11.8
PHOS 5.3 range 2.9-6.6
CRE .8 range .3-1.4
GLU 111 range 60-110
NA+ 145 range 138-160
K+ 4.7 range 3.7-5.8
TP 8.0 range 5.4-8.2
GLOB 3.8 range 2.3-5.2

[apollo6]

Welcome. I can only tell you my story. My mini dachshund , Apollo was 11 when he was diagnosed and was on 10 mg, he was 10 lbs. He had a very sensitive stomach and could only tolerate a low dosage. He lived to be one month short of 14 and died from other complications. I feel he probably had cushing's for about 1-2 years before he was diagnosed. At 15 years you want to be very careful. Maybe others can give you their input.
Sonja

[Roxie]

Welcome. I can only tell you my story. My mini dachshund , Apollo was 11 when he was diagnosed and was on 10 mg, he was 10 lbs. He had a very sensitive stomach and could only tolerate a low dosage. He lived to be one month short of 14 and died from other complications. I feel he probably had cushing's for about 1-2 years before he was diagnosed. At 15 years you want to be very careful. Maybe others can give you their input.
Sonja

Thank you for your reply Sonja and sorry to hear about your little mini. :(

I agree with you and I am very scared about starting her on something at her age. I want her to have the best quality of life possible but also would like to have her around as long as possible but not at the expense of her being uncomfortable or living with bad side effects.

Thank you again for your reply.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome!

Do you have the results and interpretation from the LDDS? If so, post them here as well, please. Does she have any other health issues that you know of? Has she been on steroids for allergies? If so, for how long?

10mg of Vetoryl for a 17lb dog is a conservative dose. The recommended starting dose would be 17mg - 1mg per lb or 2mg per kg. So 10mg that is not too high and a good starting dose for an older gal. When this drug was first released, they did recommend a much higher starting dose but as time has passed and more has been learned about this drug, the starting dose was lowered by the manufacturer recently. It IS a very powerful drug - but so is Aspirin when you have a fever. Used correctly, the drugs used to treat Cushing's are life-savers...and we are here to help you make sure Vetoryl is used correctly with your baby girl. You are family now, and this family sticks together. ;)

For today, you can take some time and read threads here and learn a bit more. Also check out the Helpful Resource section in the Index and you will find lots of goodies there. Please ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand...we all learn together here. I'm sure others will be along soon to chat with you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Robert]

Hi tommy was only on vetoryl forb6 months before he passed at 14 and a half wonderful years. He ended up on a big dose as he seemed to have a high resistance to it. The week he passed was the week his cortisol came back to normal so vetoryl did not contribute to his passing. He passed from an unrelated kidney problem never knew he had. In my view though he started at 14 on vetoryl and if the kidney problem didn't arise I believe vetoryl was and would have contributed to a longer and better life for him. God I miss that dog!!!

[Roxie]

Hi and welcome!

Do you have the results and interpretation from the LDDS? If so, post them here as well, please. Does she have any other health issues that you know of? Has she been on steroids for allergies? If so, for how long?

10mg of Vetoryl for a 17lb dog is a conservative dose. The recommended starting dose would be 17mg - 1mg per lb or 2mg per kg. So 10mg that is not too high and a good starting dose for an older gal. When this drug was first released, they did recommend a much higher starting dose but as time has passed and more has been learned about this drug, the starting dose was lowered by the manufacturer recently. It IS a very powerful drug - but so is Aspirin when you have a fever. Used correctly, the drugs used to treat Cushing's are life-savers...and we are here to help you make sure Vetoryl is used correctly with your baby girl. You are family now, and this family sticks together. ;)

For today, you can take some time and read threads here and learn a bit more. Also check out the Helpful Resource section in the Index and you will find lots of goodies there. Please ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand...we all learn together here. I'm sure others will be along soon to chat with you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang


Hello Leslie, thanks so much for the reply. I do not have copies of the results from the LDDS test yet I will get them Monday and be sure to post them. She hasn't received steroid shots for allergies for several years now. I think we quit those 2-3 years ago due to her age. She does receive about half to one benadryl a day.

I tried to read a lot of threads when I first found this site and thats what got me worried because I read everyone said to not start treatment unless you are 100% your dog has cushings. Then I started reading the fine print on the medication and how many healthy dogs died from 3x and 5x regular dose in trials and it got me worried about starting her on it because of her age. I realize she will be on a small dose and it looks like she will have to start treatment. But I just know I will kick myself if it ends up shortening her life or immediately causes her bad reactions. Because as of now she is doing pretty good other than the frequent drinking and urination. She doesn't drink all day long but when she does drink she drinks a fair bit.

I was pretty sure it was cushings before we even took her to the vet from the symptoms she was/is displaying and from what I had read online. Seems like cushings to a T.

Thanks so much for your support and insight. I will keep you all informed.:)



Hi tommy was only on vetoryl forb6 months before he passed at 14 and a half wonderful years. He ended up on a big dose as he seemed to have a high resistance to it. The week he passed was the week his cortisol came back to normal so vetoryl did not contribute to his passing. He passed from an unrelated kidney problem never knew he had. In my view though he started at 14 on vetoryl and if the kidney problem didn't arise I believe vetoryl was and would have contributed to a longer and better life for him. God I miss that dog!!!

Hi Robert, thank you so much for your reply. So sorry to hear about your loss!:( Is it possible the vetoryl could have caused the kidney problems? Or did he have it before treatment? Sorry again for your loss I am dreading the day it will happen to me and I will be like you and most of us here and be devastated.:(:(:(

[labblab]

Hello and welcome from me, too! I apologize for having only a moment to post right now. To make it quicker, I am going to include a quote from a reply that I have posted elsewhere. As you will see, I do think that the decision to treat an elderly dog may be based on certain considerations that are a bit different than those for a younger dog.


Obviously, you will have to await diagnostic testing testing before proceeding with any treatment plan. But in answer to your question, in my own mind, the decision whether or not to treat depends on a number of factors: age of the dog, apparent discomfort, severity of symptoms (both external and internal), etc. Cushing's is typically a slowly developing syndrome, and the decision to actively treat may come sooner or later in the process. The primary goals of treament are to control the troublesome observable symptoms (things like excessive thirst, urination, hunger, panting, muscle wasting), and also to halt/delay silent internal damage. Untreated Cushing's can make dogs more vulnerable to things like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, protein-losing kidney disease, blindness (as a result of high blood pressure), pancreatitis, ligament damage and slow healing, chronic infections and skin issues, GI disturbance, etc. Not every dog will suffer from all or even many of these issues, but the disease can make them happen.

Since the damage usually occurs over time, my own opinion is that I don't worry so much about the "silent" damage in a dog who is already elderly. My biggest concern for a senior dog is immediate quality of life. So if the overt symptoms are making the senior dog uncomfortable, I would treat. Otherwise, I might not.

However, for a younger dog, I would be equally as concerned about the silent internal damage. I would want to give my dog as many quality years of life that I could, and that would mean putting a stop to the development of the internal systemic damage as well as relieving the uncomfortable outward problems.

Absolutely, we have seen dogs of all ages do very well with treatment. However, regardless of age, there can be some trade-offs. For instance, you mention itchiness for Roxie and the fact that her itchiness has actually been better lately. It is true that lowering cortisol levels can "unmask" conditions that are actually improved by the anti-inflammatory effect of steroids. So, for instance, dogs with allergies or arthritis may see those conditions worsen again once the cortisol level comes down. So in my mind, this is an example of the trade-offs of treatment for an elderly dog -- which symptoms or problems will be more uncomfortable? Also, treatment requires regular trips to the vet for bloodwork and monitoring. For some dogs, this is not an issue. For others, this in itself is very stressful. But also bear in mind that you always have the option of giving treatment a try and halting it if you do not think the benefits are outweighing the negatives.

Overall, the point I wish to make is that I think that, if you wish, it is perfectly OK for you to take a little more time to make the decision for Roxie that feels best to you. I just read an article by Moira Anderson Allen that contained this great quote: "Your veterinarian is the best judge of your pet's physical condition; however, you are the best judge of the quality of your pet's daily life." In the case of my own dog, his Cushing's symptoms were making him so miserable that I would have treated him at any age and regardless of his fear of the vet's office. But your evaluation of Roxie's quality of life will depend on her own situation.

Please feel free to continue to ask any questions you wish.

Marianne

[Roxie]

Hello and welcome from me, too! I apologize for having only a moment to post right now. To make it quicker, I am going to include a quote from a reply that I have posted elsewhere. As you will see, I do think that the decision to treat an elderly dog may be based on certain considerations that are a bit different than those for a younger dog.



Absolutely, we have seen dogs of all ages do very well with treatment. However, regardless of age, there can be some trade-offs. For instance, you mention itchiness for Roxie and the fact that her itchiness has actually been better lately. It is true that lowering cortisol levels can "unmask" conditions that are actually improved by the anti-inflammatory effect of steroids. So, for instance, dogs with allergies or arthritis may see those conditions worsen again once the cortisol level comes down. So in my mind, this is an example of the trade-offs of treatment for an elderly dog -- which symptoms or problems will be more uncomfortable? Also, treatment requires regular trips to the vet for bloodwork and monitoring. For some dogs, this is not an issue. For others, this in itself is very stressful. But also bear in mind that you always have the option of giving treatment a try and halting it if you do not think the benefits are outweighing the negatives.

Overall, the point I wish to make is that I think that, if you wish, it is perfectly OK for you to take a little more time to make the decision for Roxie that feels best to you. I just read an article by Moira Anderson Allen that contained this great quote: "Your veterinarian is the best judge of your pet's physical condition; however, you are the best judge of the quality of your pet's daily life." In the case of my own dog, his Cushing's symptoms were making him so miserable that I would have treated him at any age and regardless of his fear of the vet's office. But your evaluation of Roxie's quality of life will depend on her own situation.

Please feel free to continue to ask any questions you wish.

Marianne

Hello Marianne and thanks so much for your reply!

I completely understand what you are saying about the trade offs. I am pretty sure her itchiness will come back if her cortisol levels drop due to the vetoryl. And I am not sure if she has arthritis or not but she definitely walks a little more gingerly than she used to so I also wonder if that will get worse if cortisol levels drop?

I guess like you said we can start treatment and see how she does with it and can always take her off it later depending on how she responds.

The other big point you brought up was trips to the vet. She gets terrified when she has to go to the vet and we felt awful leaving her for the LDDS test for 8 hours. We asked if we could bring her in in the AM for the first draw and shot and then take her and come back for the next two but they said they would rather keep her.

I am just really torn on what is the right thing to do. Her one liver count being so high concerns me and I assume it might come down if the vetoryl works? She just really seems to be doing pretty good for her age other than drinking more and then not sleeping all through the night.

Thanks again for your help and support.

[Squirt's Mom]

You can also talk to the vet about something to help the liver like Denamarin or Milk Thistle.

[labblab]

Hi again!

I just wanted to come back and add a comment re: your worry about the deaths caused by trilostane that are summarized in the product literature. I would never minimize the fact that both trilostane and Lysodren have been associated with the loss of some Cushing's dogs, but here's some clarification about your worry. I hope this may ease your concern in that regard.


I do want to add this word of clarification to the worry about death caused by trilostane. It is true that, over time, there have been some deaths of Cushing's dogs associated with physical changes caused by the drug. But the data in the product literature that is given about deaths of healthy "test" dogs is associated with massive overdoses of the medication: 3-5 times the maximum original dosing range of 3 mg. per pound. This means those poor dogs were given between 9-15 mg. per pound of the drug daily for 90 days! :eek: The current recommended initial dose is only 1 mg. per pound. So at the recommended dosing level, that kind of gross overdosing that affected the healthy dogs would never occur.

For the benefit of our readers who are using trilostane, the overdosing described in the literature would equal 270-450 mg. given daily to a 30 pound dog. :( :eek:

Marianne

[Roxie]

You can also talk to the vet about something to help the liver like Denamarin or Milk Thistle.

Is this something I need to get from the vet? Thanks.


Hi again!

I just wanted to come back and add a comment re: your worry about the deaths caused by trilostane that are summarized in the product literature. I would never minimize the fact that both trilostane and Lysodren have been associated with the loss of some Cushing's dogs, but here's some clarification about your worry. I hope this may ease your concern in that regard.



For the benefit of our readers who are using trilostane, the overdosing described in the literature would equal 270-450 mg. given daily to a 30 pound dog. :( :eek:

Marianne

Hi!

Wow thanks so much for posting that! That makes me feel so much better(not for the test dogs though:() as I thought that was 3x-5x regular dose! If it is 3x-5x maximum dose I can understand why there was so many complications!

[molly muffin]

I don't think you need a prescription in the states for denamarin or milk thistle as they are supplements but it is always good to consult with your vet when adding any new medicine/supplement to the mix. Most cushing dogs though have high liver enzymes and these are used to help support the liver.

Welcome to the forum!

[judymaggie]

Hi! Sharlene is right--no prescription is needed for Denamarin. I was getting Denamarin from Amazon but it was pricey. I have switched to S-Adenosyl; same components but less expensive (also found best price on Amazon). It is important to follow the instructions re the dosing schedule. I don't have the bottle near me but I think it is given two hours after eating.

[Roxie]

I've read some people say they do but my vet didn't have Roxie fast and we specifically asked about it. Would that throw off the test?


I haven't forgot about you guys and I will update my other thread with the exact test numbers when I get them. The vet is supposed to be back in tomorrow.

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about fasting for the ACTH into your baby’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

As for the fasting - the answer is NO. There is a set protocol to follow with Vetoryl (Trilostane) that requires the drug be given with a meal, not a snack but a meal, and that the test be given 2-4 hours after the dose and meal are ingested. It does not matter what anyone else says, even a vet, if they say to fast they are wrong, period. These drugs are fat soluble which means they MUST have fats to enter the body. Without food the drug cannot work - if the drug is not working the test results will be wrong - if the test results are wrong that will lead the vet to take incorrect action - if incorrect action is taken the dog can become very sick, even die. So NO, never ever fast before a monitoring ACTH.

For the diagnostic ACTH (BEFORE treatment starts) it is ok to fast but never after treatment has begun.

Hope that helps!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[labblab]

Leslie is absolutely right about the procedure for a monitoring ACTH stimulation test after treatment has begun. But I believe you are asking about a diagnostic Low Dose Dexamethasone Suppression Test ("LDDS"). From what I have read, most labs do recommend that a dog be fasted before running that test. If the blood samples have too much fat in them, it can throw off the results (although I don't know in which direction).

It may be the case, however, that the lab your vet uses does not require fasting. Or, if other bloodwork was done at the same time, it may show that Roxie's serum fat level was not high enough to interefere with the results, regardless. It is something you can ask him about again, though -- why did he not want her to be fasted when that is the stated protocol for many labs?

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Good point, Marianne! I took it for granted we were talking ACTH. :o:D

[Roxie]

Hello all. I visited here back in June I believe when I found out our little Roxie had cushings disease. At her age(now 15 and a half years old) we decided not to start her on the vetoryl until we felt her quality of life was got worse. I know I discussed it here with you guys but we based that on several things, possible side effects of vetoryl, her terrible itching would come back and assuming she has arhtritis(which I think she does) would get worse.

She has done pretty good(all things considered for a 15 year old dog) the last 6 months but it's made it harder on us which I don't mind to keep her happy. She was always really hungry the first 4 months after she was diagnosed and would bark wanting to be fed all the time.

She just needs to go out more often than she used to but she still never has had any accidents in the house other than when she had a UTI that was cleared up with antibiotics.

The last two months she has been losing some hair over her front shoulders and back legs are getting pretty weak.:( She can still walk ok, still has a good appetite and hasn't vomited once since she was diagnosed. Also her bark has changed pitch and is high pitched since around the time she showed other symptoms.

Her liver counts were elevated back when she was diagnosed and I noticed the last month or so she would rub the top of her head on stuff which I read is a sign of liver problems so I started her on denamarin for medium dogs.


So my question to you all do you think it is worth starting her on the vetoryl or is it to late to help?

All we've ever wanted is whats best for her and to make her not suffer and I think we've done that. It breaks my heart to see her getting worse and she has been the little baby of our family for over 15 years.:(


In hindsight I kind of wish we had started her on it back when she first was diagnosed but at the time we weighed the pros and cons and did what we thought was right.

I apologize for not keeping you all up to date but once we decided to not start the vetoryl right away I just wanted to not think about it and read all of these threads and second guess myself.

Thank you all this is a great place with great advice and great people.

[Roxie]

Oh and we were really hoping she could make it to christmas and open her presents and she did that.:) We were so happy to see her open her presents up and see how excited she got. It was almost like for just that short while she forgot she had anything wrong with her and was like her old self.

So little Roxie has got to celebrate christmas with us 16 times.:)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome back! Thanks so much for updating us on Roxie and I am glad to hear that she is doing pretty good...WOW 16 years old!!!!!

One of our staff members, Marianne, and I really believe she posted a perfect response to a member that was asking advice about treatment for Cushing's with their very senior dog, which I am sharing with you:
Dear Lisa,

Welcome to you and Pepper, and WOW you've done a great job of keeping your girl healthy and happy up to age 17! First off, even though folks here do give various supplements to support healthy body functioning, there are no nonprescription drugs that will address the root cause of Cushing's and lower cortisol sufficiently to control the disease. So it really will take treatment with either trilostane (or Lysodren, the other Rx option) to control the Cushing's, assuming it truly is the cause of her symptoms. Having said that, at age 17, you may want to consider pluses-and-minuses of Cushing's treatment before rushing in to treat Pepper.

Cushing's is typically a slowly progressive disease but it does have the potential to cause systemic damage over time (from high blood pressure, vulnerability to pancreatitis and infections, high cholesterol, kidney damage, liver inflammation, etc.). So for a younger dog, I'd certainly recommend effective treatment so as to eliminate some of these risks, improve longterm quality of life, and allow the dog to live out his/her normal lifespan. However, for a dog of Pepper's age, immediate quality of life issues seem of paramount importance to me. And there are some trade-offs to treatment, especially for an arthritic dog since the arthritis may actually worsen as the cortisol level drops, necessitating the introduction of additional drugs to better manage the discomfort. Also, especially at the beginning, there can be numerous vet visits and blood draws which can be less than pleasant for a dog who's nervous at the vet (and also hard on the owner's pocketbook :o).

I don't tell you any of this to dissuade you from treating if you and your vet agree this is the best path forward for Pepper. But I do think you are the best judge as to how uncomfortable her current symptoms are to you both, and if they are not bothering Pepper all that much -- as I say, you may want to hold off on treating for the time being.

First things first, though -- as Lori says, it'll be great if we can take a look at those test results.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

So glad to hear that she has been doing so well and had another Christmas with you. Special times that will always be remembered.

A low dose of trilostane could maybe help? If you notice any pain from arthritis though, then it might not be beneficial. It is always about quality of life.

[Roxie]

Hi and welcome back! Thanks so much for updating us on Roxie and I am glad to hear that she is doing pretty good...WOW 16 years old!!!!!

One of our staff members, Marianne, and I really believe she posted a perfect response to a member that was asking advice about treatment for Cushing's with their very senior dog, which I am sharing with you:

Thank you for sharing and I agree it is about quality of life and thats been our goal all along. Is there a chance her weak back legs would improve if starting vetoryl?

She has been doing good but as I mentioned she is gradually getting worse and it's to the point now where if we want to start her on it it's pretty much now or never. The vet gave her the lowest dose which I believe is supposed to be half the dose of a dog with her weight.

Right now we are leaning towards starting the vetoryl but if there is any bad side effects like vomiting or anything like that we will take her off of it and wait for the inevitable.:(


So glad to hear that she has been doing so well and had another Christmas with you. Special times that will always be remembered.

A low dose of trilostane could maybe help? If you notice any pain from arthritis though, then it might not be beneficial. It is always about quality of life.


Thank you for the post. As I said. She isn't great but still has appetite, no vomiting and still seems decent for any 15 year old dog. But I think it's time to start her on the vetoryl if we are going to do it.

[Roxie]

Also does anyone know if I can continue to give her the denamarin with the vetoryl? Thanks!

[labblab]

Hi again from me! I am not aware of any problem with giving Denamarin alongside Vetoryl, and I believe we have had many members who have done so. However, if you ever have a question as to whether Vetoryl can be safely combined with another med or supplement, you can always contact Dechra (maker of Vetoryl) to be sure:

http://www.dechra.us/contact/technical-support

Marianne

[molly muffin]

It's hard to say if the back leg weakness would improve or not with the vetroyl. It rather depends on what the cause is. Some do though. We've seen people say that their dogs once again jump on a couch or something when they couldn't before.
I think like so many things it is dependent on each dog.

[Roxie]

Hi guys just wanted to update you on Roxie. We were waiting for her to improve some before possibly starting her on vetoryl. Well unfortunately she hasn't improved and has gotten quite bit worse.:( The last couple of weeks she has become even more weak and has trouble standing on her own from her back legs not being strong enough.

She had never really lost a lot of hair either up until the last few weeks and has lost a lot of hair on her shoulders. She still hasn't lost any on her belly which is where I thought she would with the cushings.:confused:

We have always said we wouldn't make her suffer or keep her around too long just for our sake of having her still be here with us.


At this point I don't see any reason to try and start vetoryl. I'd like to try it and pray for a miracle but I just think she is too far down for it to help. And it would probably make her sick and I don't want to do that to her.

So I am afraid the end is near and the time we have been dreading for so long has finally come.:(:(:(

Thank you all for your support. Part of me wishes we had tried the vetoryl but there is no point in beating myself up about it now. We did what we thought was best at her age and spoiled her to the end.

Thanks all and hug your little fury ones as their time with us is far too short....:(

[judymaggie]

I'm so sorry you haven't seen the hoped for improvement in Roxie. Continue to spoil her as much as you can, give her her favorite foods and, if she enjoys trips in the car, take her out on some jaunts. A gentle hug to both of you!

[Harley PoMMom]

Gosh I am so sorry that Roxie did not improve and we certainly do understand your dilemma. I totally agree, quality of life takes precedence over quantity of life, although this doesn't make the decision to let them go any easier. Please know if at any time you need to talk we are here for you, always.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Aw we. You never know how something will go when you make a decision. You also don't know if another decision would have been better or worse.
In the end all we have is that we know in each of our hearts that we did the best possible thing for each situation we encountered and loved them and spoilt them for as long as we could.
Big hugs.

[Roxie]

I'm so sorry you haven't seen the hoped for improvement in Roxie. Continue to spoil her as much as you can, give her her favorite foods and, if she enjoys trips in the car, take her out on some jaunts. A gentle hug to both of you!

Thanks so much. I went and bought her some more of her favorite treats and actually bought some chicken breast at the meat market to give he some of that too. We plan to spoil her until the end!

Also she enjoys riding in the UTV so I will drive her around in it some the next few days. Luckily it is supposed to be unseasonably warm out the next few days so she will like that.


Gosh I am so sorry that Roxie did not improve and we certainly do understand your dilemma. I totally agree, quality of life takes precedence over quantity of life, although this doesn't make the decision to let them go any easier. Please know if at any time you need to talk we are here for you, always.

Hugs, Lori

Thanks so much Lori. It's a day all of us who love our pets so dearly dread and don't want to come. But sadly the time is close. I don't want to keep her going just so she is here. It isn't fair to her. She still likes to eat, doesn't have accidents or throw up so I don't feel we have drug it out too long. But she is just so tired and her back legs are so weak and she doesn't walk much at all anymore. I just really feel like the time is here to let her go to doggy heaven where she can run and play again and be a happy dog.:(

[Roxie]

Well guys I just wanted to update you all and let you know my little baby is now in doggie heaven.:(:(:( I'm absolutely heart broken as she was my best friend for many many years. She was put to rest February 8th. Her last 3-4 days were pretty rough at times but she had her good moments up until the very end. We did everything we could to spoil her even more than normal the last week or so.


Thank you all for your information and support along the way.


In hindsight I wish I had tried her on the vetoryl but she was always so sensitive to medications and hated going to the vet. And at her age I wanted her to have quality of life over quantity of life.


Shortly before she was put to rest we celebrated her life with a candle and cupcakes. She ate her cupcake and then an hour or so later she went to doggie heaven. It feels so empty with her gone and I know she can never be replaced. Every time I walk in the living room I look to see where my baby is laying and she is gone.

She was 15 years and 8 months old.

RIP Roxie. You will never be forgotten. :(

[judymaggie]

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your sweet girl, Roxie. No matter how long we have our pups with us, it is never long enough. I am glad that you were able to celebrate her life with her and that she crossed over to the rainbow bridge peacefully.

[Joan2517]

Oh, I am so, so sorry....

Joan

[budindian]

I am so sorry, thoughts and prayers for this very difficult time.

[molly muffin]

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. It does make me smile to think of her having her cupcake and spending some wonderful time with you, her family. I'm sure she loved those days as much as you did.
My sincerest condolences on the loss of precious Roxie.

[Roxie]

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your sweet girl, Roxie. No matter how long we have our pups with us, it is never long enough. I am glad that you were able to celebrate her life with her and that she crossed over to the rainbow bridge peacefully.

You are so right, we feel blessed she was with us 15.5 years but wish it could have been forever. I feel like it was the perfect time to let her be at peace. It was nice this past weekend and we spent time outside doing a few things and riding in the ranger which she loved and I said I hoped it would snow on monday so it wouldn't look so gloomy and dreary the day we put her down. And it did snow and I liked seeing her paw prints in the snow one last time. She could have kept going a little longer but it would have been selfish and not fair to her. Thanks so much for your reply.


Oh, I am so, so sorry....

Joan

Thank you. It's amazing how much we love our little pups! Its sad when they have to go....:(


I am so sorry, thoughts and prayers for this very difficult time.

Thanks you so much!


I am so sorry to hear of your loss. It does make me smile to think of her having her cupcake and spending some wonderful time with you, her family. I'm sure she loved those days as much as you did.
My sincerest condolences on the loss of precious Roxie.

Thank you so much for the kind words. Yes she loved her cupcake. It was so cute seeing her get icing on her nose. I took some pictures but I am not sure if we can post them on here?

We all took turns loving her right before the end. It was the best feeling with the world when she would lay right there with her head by your shoulder and neck. I did that one last time and started bawling.:( So sad knowing I'll never have that again.

I looked her right in the eyes as she went to doggie heaven and she never flenched or anything. Her eyes just got kind of wide after the second shot and then she was gone....:( But I was happy she didn't yelp or struggle at all. She was just at peace.

[Spiceysmum]

So sorry, my thoughts are with you.

Linda

[spdd]

So sorry to read your update. You certainly gave Roxie the best you could even with the cupcake and all. They are so precious to us, and it leaves such an empty place in our hearts when they are gone. My sincerest condolences to you.

[Tina]

I am so sorry to read this sad news. What a long and happy life she had, but it is never long enough. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Tina

[Squirt's Mom]

I am so sorry to read about your sweet Roxie. To live that long is a blessing in itself and I know all those years were filled with love, the best medicine of all no matter what. Today she is well again and watching over her mom just as her mom watched over her with such love and care. When your time here is done, she will be there to greet you, tail wagging strongly.

Our sympathy,
Leslie, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Fox and all our Angels

A BRIDGE CALLED LOVE

It takes us back to brighter years,
to happier sunlit days
and to precious moments
that will be with us always.

And these fond recollections
are treasured in the heart
to bring us always close to those
from whom we had to part.

There is a bridge of memories
from Earth to Heaven above…
It keeps our dear ones near us
It’s the bridge that we call love.

~Author Unknown

[Trish]

My condolences on the passing of Roxie, sending my thoughts and condolences to you and your family xx

[Roxie]

So sorry, my thoughts are with you.

Linda

Thank you Linda.


So sorry to read your update. You certainly gave Roxie the best you could even with the cupcake and all. They are so precious to us, and it leaves such an empty place in our hearts when they are gone. My sincerest condolences to you.

We tried to give her the best life possible until the end and she couldn't have been any more loved. You are exactly right abut the empty place in our hearts. It is an emptiness that I will carry with me the rest of my life. Thank you for the reply.

[mytil]

I am so very sorry to read about your Roxie. You are so right, it is about the quality of life and she had the best right up until her passing. Her living so long is a testament to your love and care. Please stay with us.

My deepest condolences!
((((hugs))))
Terry

[Roxie]

I am so very sorry to read about your Roxie. You are so right, it is about the quality of life and she had the best right up until her passing. Her living so long is a testament to your love and care. Please stay with us.

My deepest condolences!
((((hugs))))
Terry

Thank you for the kind words. I feel like all of us here feel the same about our dogs and thats why we find ourselves here. Wanting to read and figure out what is best for our pups.


I will stay around and try and offer help to those others who find themselves in the same situation as the rest of us have.

[Roxie]

As I lay here on the couch tonight without Roxie I really wish we would have at least tried the vetoryl. It's easy to feel that way now that she is gone though I guess. I felt we were doing the best thing for her considering her age, sensitivity to medications in the past, possible arthritis and her allergies. Maybe she would have done fine on it and still been here today. I will never know now though.:(


I hate feeling this way but feel like I let her down by not trying it.

[Roxie]

Here is the picture of her right after she got done with her cupcake before she licked her nose clean. She dove right in and gobbled it up as good as she could while being held. This was shortly before she went to doggie heaven.:(


http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=1073&pictureid=8121

[Joan2517]

What a cute picture!

Try not to think about what you might've done. I'm doing the Vetoryl for Lena and wondering if it is the right thing to do. If I didn't do it, I would be wondering the same thing. We are going to second guess ourselves no matter which way we go. It's so sad either way. I am dreading the day Lee leaves me and my heart breaks for you now.

Joan

[Roxie]

What a cute picture!

Try not to think about what you might've done. I'm doing the Vetoryl for Lena and wondering if it is the right thing to do. If I didn't do it, I would be wondering the same thing. We are going to second guess ourselves no matter which way we go. It's so sad either way. I am dreading the day Lee leaves me and my heart breaks for you now.

Joan

Thank you Joan. You are right I would have second guessed myself either way but I feel I should have given the medication a chance. Its weird how perspective changes after the fact. Before she went down hill I thought we were doing the right thing for all the reasons mentioned above.

I hope you and Lee have a lot of years left!

[labblab]

Oh, I love Roxie's cupcake photo! It is so very sweet!!

Like Joan, I hope you won't dwell too long on the regrets although I do believe they are pretty much inevitable whenever there are choices to be made. If it gives you any comfort, however, I do believe I would have made the same choices that your family did. From what you've told us, the mobility issue really became the deciding factor. Given Roxie's age and the likelihood of arthritic degeneration, there is every chance that lowering Roxie's cortisol might have incapacitated her further due to worsening arthritic pain. Her little body was tired, and I don't think that any medication would have had the power to change that. Her life was wonderful and full and rich with love (and cupcakes :o). From where I sit, you have no reason to doubt yourself. You did what you thought was best for Roxie at the time that each decision was made, and you made sure she had a wonderful life. No doggie could ask for more. She was a lucky little girl, and I know you feel just as lucky to have shared your lives together.

Sending more warm thoughts your way,
Marianne

[spdd]

Please do stay around. I have since "mah boy" is gone. I find it hard at times to come back on here and read about all the other pups. Sometimes I think I'm jealous that I still am not struggling with taking care of my baby, and other times I cry like a baby knowing how others are feeling after they lost their pups. Either way, I'm still here, not much help as far as giving advice goes, but in my own way try to support the struggle that everyone on here is going through.
I too have second guessed my decisions about the care, not to mention poor veterinarians, that I gave Keesh, but it doesn't change the fact he is gone and I did try my best, just like you did. Don't beat yourself up, they know they were loved beyond anyone can usually imagine, and we have to remember the good times. That last comment I really need to take my own advice, even still I find it hard to remember the wonderful times trying to deal with the grief. We all deal with it differently and it has/is taking me a long time, as he was all I had, but we will get there. Be kind to yourself and know we are all here knowing exactly how you feel.

[apollo6]

I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet angel Roxie. There is no right or wrong way to love and care for theses sweet beautiful fur balls. Know you did the best you could. They are on loan from heaven. There never is enough time to be with them. They make us better and we are never the same. Roxie will always be in your heart and soul. Now is the time to grieve, be kind to yourself. It takes time. You will always miss Roxie. The pain will be less with time, but the lose will always be there.
Love Sonja, Angel Apollo and Karma, Ariel

[Roxie]

Oh, I love Roxie's cupcake photo! It is so very sweet!!

Like Joan, I hope you won't dwell too long on the regrets although I do believe they are pretty much inevitable whenever there are choices to be made. If it gives you any comfort, however, I do believe I would have made the same choices that your family did. From what you've told us, the mobility issue really became the deciding factor. Given Roxie's age and the likelihood of arthritic degeneration, there is every chance that lowering Roxie's cortisol might have incapacitated her further due to worsening arthritic pain. Her little body was tired, and I don't think that any medication would have had the power to change that. Her life was wonderful and full and rich with love (and cupcakes :o). From where I sit, you have no reason to doubt yourself. You did what you thought was best for Roxie at the time that each decision was made, and you made sure she had a wonderful life. No doggie could ask for more. She was a lucky little girl, and I know you feel just as lucky to have shared your lives together.

Sending more warm thoughts your way,
Marianne

Thank you Marianne, your post made me feel better.:) I suppose I will always wonder "what if" but it doesn't make any sense to beat myself up over it. If I could go back in time I think I would have tried the vetoryl. But when she was first diagnosed she wasn't that bad. She just had increased thirst and hunger and she would get a little rowdy at night for 30 minutes or so which I didn't mind. The time she was rowdy gradually increased over time and then towards the end as her body wore out the restlessness began to fade. I've been just looking threw pictures all weekend of all the good times we had.:)



Please do stay around. I have since "mah boy" is gone. I find it hard at times to come back on here and read about all the other pups. Sometimes I think I'm jealous that I still am not struggling with taking care of my baby, and other times I cry like a baby knowing how others are feeling after they lost their pups. Either way, I'm still here, not much help as far as giving advice goes, but in my own way try to support the struggle that everyone on here is going through.
I too have second guessed my decisions about the care, not to mention poor veterinarians, that I gave Keesh, but it doesn't change the fact he is gone and I did try my best, just like you did. Don't beat yourself up, they know they were loved beyond anyone can usually imagine, and we have to remember the good times. That last comment I really need to take my own advice, even still I find it hard to remember the wonderful times trying to deal with the grief. We all deal with it differently and it has/is taking me a long time, as he was all I had, but we will get there. Be kind to yourself and know we are all here knowing exactly how you feel.

I know exactly what you mean missing taking care of your baby. I'd love for her to still be waking me up at night wanting to go out or eat. It just feels so empty with my best friend gone now. And you are so right most people cannot even begin to imagine how much some of us love our pups. I've been reminiscing over the good times and it helps. But I know I will miss her forever. Time will help some, but there will be an emptiness in my heart that will be there the rest of my life.


I want to stay around here as well and offer my support to the others going threw what we have.


I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet angel Roxie. There is no right or wrong way to love and care for theses sweet beautiful fur balls. Know you did the best you could. They are on loan from heaven. There never is enough time to be with them. They make us better and we are never the same. Roxie will always be in your heart and soul. Now is the time to grieve, be kind to yourself. It takes time. You will always miss Roxie. The pain will be less with time, but the lose will always be there.
Love Sonja, Angel Apollo and Karma, Ariel


Thanks for the kind words from you, your pups and your Angel Apollo.

You are exactly right there never is enough time to be with them. And they do make us feel better. Just laying by her and petting her or her snuggling up with me on the couch. She was so warm and cuddle she could put you to sleep fast. And I tried to do the best I could and what was best for her. I second guess myself now and probably always will but at the time I felt it was the best decision. I guess just since she is gone now it's easy to wish I had tried the vetoryl. She lived a long, full and loved life so I should just be at peace with it and be happy she is in doggie heaven....

[Roxie]

I want to thank all of you again for the kind words and thoughts. It really means a lot to have support from others in this sad time in my life. It just feels good knowing others can relate(not just to the loss but how close a dog can be to you).

[Tammysmom]

I am very sorry for the loss of your sweet baby girl Roxie. She was so lucky to have a mom like you. Thoughts and prayers. Brianna

[Roxie]

I am very sorry for the loss of your sweet baby girl Roxie. She was so lucky to have a mom like you. Thoughts and prayers. Brianna

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. I was Roxies brother though. My brother and I got her when I was 16.:) But she was still my baby but she loved my mom the most. haha

[Roxie]

I am still missing Roxie so much. I haven't even moved her food or water bowl yet because I want to think she is still here.:( I've left all of her blankets and stuff the same, her food container and all. I just feel so empty and hollow inside with her gone. She was truly my best friend and I don't know if I will ever feel the same again.:(

Thank you all for your support.

[Roxie]

Hello all, some of you might remember me from a couple years ago and I wanted to come back and offer some support and insight on what I would do differently if I could rewind time.... Our little miniature dachshund Roxie was diagnosed with cushings just after she turned 15 year old. I came here for advice in 2015 and was torn on whether or not to start her on vetoryl. It seemed there were pros and cons to each one. She was sensitive to medications, didn't like trips to the vet and had bad allergies before cushings. Thats a few anyways. Long story short I did not start her on vetoryl.


I've regretted ever since she passed away and especially her last month or so as her health deteriorated that we did not starting her on vetoryl and at least giving it a chance. Our family had agreed on whatever I chose and I feel like I let her down and my family. I often ask myself if she would still be here today had we started her on the vetoryl. She was the sweetest little pup ever and I feel I let her down. Her health was in my hands and I had something that could have potentially made her better, more comfortable and prolonged her life and didn't try it for fear that she might have a bad reaction and pass away suddenly and the other reasons mentioned.:(


She ended up living to be 15 years and 8 months old and lived about 8 months after she was diagnosed. Who knows if she would still be here today but I wish I had given her the chance but I knew if I didn't start the vetoryl I would have her for awhile longer and was scared what might happen with the vetoryl, vet trips, terrible allergies and just being an older dog.



Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to come back and give you guys an update on what I wish I had done. Hindsight I would have 100% started her on the vetoryl and saw how she reacted....

Maybe this post will help those with newly diagnosed cushings pups. I'm not saying it was the right or wrong way or you should treat no matter what. I am just saying what I wish I had done......


Thank you all for your help as my little Roxie was going through this....

[labblab]

Oh goodness, welcome back to us! Of course we remember you and sweet Roxie, and you’ll see I’ve taken the liberty of merging your new thread into your original thread from two years ago. This way, all our readers will be able to trace through the journey that you two girls had taken together.

My heart goes out to you on this second anniversary of your loss. Every day brings its own challenges, but I think anniversaries are especially powerful and especially hard. So I’m really glad you’re allowing us to talk with you today. In reading back through your original thread, I’m reminded of Roxie’s situation and why you felt so torn even back then. If only we could have a crystal ball to guide us in these decisions! Sadly, though, we don’t. So we do the best we can, and then struggle to find a way to make peace with the way things turn out. I know it probably won’t help you to hear me say that I still think you made a decision for Roxie that was both very reasonable and very loving. But it’s really true, and that’s what I really think. But I also think it’s impossible to not carry doubts and regret when we lose these precious souls who depend upon us for their care. It is such an awesome responsibility, and it is so hard to not second guess ourselves.

But you did what you felt was best for Roxie, and you made your decision out of love for her. I’m guessing you’ll hear from some other folks — like me, too — who question their decisions that went the other way. Would it have better had we NOT chosen to treat — or kept on treating — our babies? We’ll never know. Twelve years after losing my own Cushpup, I still have doubts as to whether I should have done something different. But when those bad thoughts try to take over, I close my eyes and say to myself: We loved him dearly, and he had a good life. Truly, I think that’s the best gift we can give our doggies, and I know that’s the gift you gave Roxie.

So I send big hugs to you on this anniversary day. And once again, I’m so glad you reached out to us in this way.

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Welcome back and thank you for coming back to us to share your thoughts.

I think you are going through what each of us goes through and that is the "what if" I have certainly thought those same things, what if I'd started earlier, what if i had done this instead of that, would I still have my furmuffin. I don't know. I will never know. None of us will and I don't know anyone who doesn't have the 'what if's'
I have to think that we all make the best decisions we can at the time with the information we have.

What I would urge you to remember, is a couple things. You had good reasons for the decisions that you made at that time and the most important thing of all, is
"what if" works two ways. What if you Had given the vetroyl and based on her health and the reasons you made the choices you did at that time, what if there was a reaction, what if things had been worse by starting the vetroyl.

These are things that we will none of us ever know, "what if's" are like that by their very nature.

So, give yourself a hug. You made every decision in Roxies best interest. You know that in your heart, we know that here. Damn I hurt these anniversaries too.

[DoxieMama]

Hi. Thank you for coming back to share your thoughts with us. I am so sorry for the loss of your sweet Doxie-girl, and for your regrets.

My own doxie passed away approx. 8 months after diagnosis with Cushing's also. He was 14 years and 5 days old. I treated him with Trilostane (compounded Vetoryl) but only for a short time. I'm not sure if he didn't tolerate it or what... we decreased the dose twice and then stopped altogether after a frightening afternoon a few months after diagnosis. I do not believe that what happened to my boy was because of the medication. But I am kind of on the other side of the fence, having treated my doxie and then wondered if perhaps I should have withheld it, due to all the vet visits and tests.

However, something Marianne said brought tears to my eyes. I love my boy with all my heart. (I first typed "loved" my boy with all my heart but had to change it. I still love him. And it brings me to tears, even now.) Anyway... her post, which I will repeat here:


when those bad thoughts try to take over, I close my eyes and say to myself: We loved him dearly, and he had a good life. Truly, I think that’s the best gift we can give our doggies, and I know that’s the gift you gave Roxie.

I might have more to say but I can't remember... and I can't see the screen anymore.

Many many hugs.
Shana

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh honey, you did not let your sweet Roxie down in any way. You made every decision for her from a place of love and no decision made from that place is ever wrong. We never know what the results would be if we had chosen a different path - they could have been better and they could have been MUCH worse. I have had 2 pups diagnosed with Cushing's and I treated both of them....and I have deep regrets with both of them. All those questions you ask yourself about Roxie I ask myself about Squirt and Trinket. "But what if I had done ______?" "Maybe if I hadn't done _____ things would have been better." I have "what if'd" myself into despondency with both of them....and with several others who didn't have Cushing's.

To me, this is an expression of just how deeply we love our babies - we still can't let go, we will never be able to let go....and we shouldn't. But neither should we dwell in that place of guilt and self-reproach. We truly didn't earn the right to stay in that place for very long. We did what we believed would give our babies the best chance at a decent life. We did those things because we love them....and they know that. And these anniversaries always bring back the agony, pain, and questions...always. We relive "that day" once again and once again feel all those emotions as if they were brand new. It is easy to wander back to that place of guilt and self-reproach during these times...but we must not linger. Take a peek, a deep breath of that fetid air, then take that next step toward the light, toward that shared love that will last for all time. Cry, for every tear we shed honors our babies and the love that grew between us. Reach deep inside for those memories of the happy times and let your heart rise in joy.

And remember, one day we will be with our babies again. On that day they themselves will tell us how much they appreciate ALL we did on their behalf.

Hugs,
Leslie

[Joan2517]

My Lee died a week later. It will be 2 years on the 19th. She was 14 years, 11 months old. She was on Vetoryl for only 2 months and I have my regrets about that. All of her things are still around me and I miss her every single day. She was my heart dog. I was hoping the two year anniversary would be better than the first, but it's going to be just as bad...I'm dreading it.

Many hugs to you.
Joan