Newbie with ?s

[CN I Dawg]

Hello Everyone,
I'm so glad I found this resource. As when I had a human medical problem that was some what rare, the combined patient knowledge seemed to surpass that of any individual doctor.
I have a 5 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi. Last week she became very ill with basically lethargy and lack of appetite. That started in the evening and by the evening the next day she was fine. Then the next morning she was even more lethargic and would not go to the food bowel. If you know Corgis, they are voracious feeders for such a little dog. Anyway, I took her to the vet in the afternoon. By that time, she again started to recover and vet could find nothing wrong. (note: no loose stool or vomiting). He suggested a wait and see approach but I decided to get a a full panel blood test. Lets fast forward...in hind sight, I think the cause of Ein's illness was some sample food a friend gave me. I gave quite a few as treats the first day and after she recovered the first time, I gave her a lot more. That's the only thing that makes sense. Okay, that's the background.

Now the blood test results and why I'm posting. The blood panel had every conceivable blood test including pancreas and Thyroid. There were a couple of numbers that were a point or two out of range, which the vet and I agreed were no big thing. The stand out was the ALP. That was 259 on a lab range of 5-160U/L. :confused:
The vet said that was typical of Cushings. He suggested another blood test in a couple of weeks. What I read in the references here seems to indicate that high ALP alone is not for sure Cushings. Ein has none of the other physical manifestations of Cushings. Of course, now I imagine she is drinking more water and peeing more. She is 25lb female, active, eats well, seems the same as always.
So, fellow dog lovers, what are your thoughts please.

[CN I Dawg]

I wrote a huge story only to try post and the system logged me off and I lost everything.
I have Pembroke Welsh Corgi female, named Ein. She is 25lbs and has no physical manifestations of Cushings. She is 5 years old. For another issue, I ordered a full blood test. This is the first blood test she ever had, so I have no base line.
I can go into details as to why I brought her to vet in the first place if you think it would help. She had an acute illness that I think was caused by some bad sample food I gave her.
Anyway, all blood tests came back with normal limits except ALP, which was 259 on a range of 5-160 U/L.
The vet said this is a sign of Cushings. He suggested another blood test in a couple of weeks. From what I have read on this site, there may be better alternatives. I'd be grateful for your thoughts.
Please any questions you feel are appropriate. I didn't have the stamina to re-type my book again.:o

[molly muffin]

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[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If you click on the "go advanced" button at the bottom of the panel you type into, then you can preview your post periodically and I find that keeps you logged in longer. I have also been known to type out on a notepad and then copy paste in if it is really long or if I am posting numbers.

Okay, let see if I have the correct; Ein has no symtoms of cushings? such as ravenous hunger, drinking excessively, peeing rivers and having accidents in the house, hair loss thinning, hind leg weakness? But she did have an acute episode which caused her to be treated? or is this what brought you to the vet?

See if there is an acute illness or a chronic illness, then I wouldn't be surprised if the ALP is raised. This is one of the test that is basically a liver enzyme and the liver is a filter of all the toxins in a body that run through it. So, just having the ALP raised, with no symptoms of cushings, would not make me think cushings.

There was only this One thing raised on the blood work? Are there any symptoms she is having now? Has she recovered from the acute episode?

I'm sorry you lost your initial post as I'm sure it took a long time to write. (I know I've had it happen to me too, very frustrating)

Welcome to the forum! Ask any questions and I'm sure the others will have more for you too.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome from me as well, I have only a moment to post, I just wanted to let you know your previous post was not lost and that I have merged it onto your original thread.

Also, I have manually approved your membership so now all your posts will be seen right away. Also, please just disregard the validation email that was sent to you from k9cushings.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Okay so this post answered some of my first questions. No other symptoms of cushings, and ALP is likely increased by the episode that went along with the sample food.

You might want to check and see if there is a vet in your area that knows more about cushings though. The reason I say that is that while ALP is usually increased in cushings dogs, it can in no way shape or form be used to diagnose cushings, as ALP can be increased for many reasons.

I hope this helps you. So glad I found your first post.

[CN I Dawg]

Okay so this post answered some of my first questions. No other symptoms of cushings, and ALP is likely increased by the episode that went along with the sample food.

You might want to check and see if there is a vet in your area that knows more about cushings though. The reason I say that is that while ALP is usually increased in cushings dogs, it can in no way shape or form be used to diagnose cushings, as ALP can be increased for many reasons.

I hope this helps you. So glad I found your first post.

Yes, so am I. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure the acute episode was due to the sample food. There is no other rational explanation. She has been fine since the second recovery. As I mentioned, after I studied the Cushing's symptoms, I started seeing the symptoms. Not really but I imagined I did. Ein has always been a food hound. She drinks water, yes. Now I'm measuring it to be sure. One of the links said the average dog drinks 1oz. water per 1 lb body weight. I think it will be in that ball park. I have watched her pee now for a week. (neighbors are curious). Looks as yellow as it ever did. Anyone who had/has a Corgi knows they are horrendous shedders. So, I can imagine she is losing hair but I don't think it's more than usual.

So the question I was trying to get at is, what is the next test you would recommend? How high is ALP on a Cushings dog?

Thanks,
Steven

[molly muffin]

It can vary but most often high hundreds and thousands.

I would make sure this episode is past and then if you are still thinking Cushing's. Do an LDDS test. But make sure she is over this so give it a few weeks okay.

[CN I Dawg]

It can vary but most often high hundreds and thousands.

I would make sure this episode is past and then if you are still thinking Cushing's. Do an LDDS test. But make sure she is over this so give it a few weeks okay.

Ok. Thank you. Ein's ALP was 259 U/L. I guess that is "low" for Cushings?
Btw, thank you and other contributors for spending your valuable time to help the rest of us out. It's very much appreciated.

[Harley PoMMom]

On the forum we have seen cush dogs with ALP's in the thousands. :eek: However, there are so many things that can cause that ALP to be elevated besides Cushing's. If Ein has no clinical Cushing's symptoms, if this were me, I wouldn't have any tests for Cushing's performed.

Could you post the abnormal values that are on her most recent CBC/chemistry blood panel and include the reference ranges and units of measurement? As an example: ALT 150 U/L (5-50)...thanks!

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

oh my goodness, isn't Ein cute! Just adorable.


Btw, thank you and other contributors for spending your valuable time to help the rest of us out. It's very much appreciated.

Thank you for your kind words. We are paying it forward as we where all at one point or another in your shoes. :)

Yes, 259 is low for what we often see in cushings dogs.

[CN I Dawg]

Hello,
She had a complete blood workup, including Pancreatitis and Thyroid. The only tests that were out of range were, in order of clinical significance:

Meas. Ref
1. ALP 259 5-160 U/L
2. Glucose 121 63-114 mg/dL
3. Lipase 125 138-755 U/L
4. Sodium 141 142-152 mmol/L

The vet and I agreed that only the ALP held any weight, as the others were either within the lab error range or the dog version of "white coat" syndrome for humans. Also, keep in mind she had an acute affliction from what I suspect was either a severe allergic reaction to the sample food I gave her or the food was outright contaminated.

Btw, I was hoping someone would make the recommendation of "do nothing". I just didn't want to lead the witness. To that end, is there any benefit to early treatment in Cushings? That is, before clinical signs of the disease appear? If not, I'd rather wait and see instead of exposing Ein to more needles and my wallet to paying for the vet's house.
Thanks,
Steven

[CN I Dawg]

oh my goodness, isn't Ein cute! Just adorable.



Thank you for your kind words. We are paying it forward as we where all at one point or another in your shoes. :)

Yes, 259 is low for what we often see in cushings dogs.

Thank you for the compliment. Ein is a beautiful girl and has a wonderful doganality. She loves humans and greats all but the scariest.:D

[Harley PoMMom]

Btw, I was hoping someone would make the recommendation of "do nothing". I just didn't want to lead the witness. To that end, is there any benefit to early treatment in Cushings? That is, before clinical signs of the disease appear? If not, I'd rather wait and see instead of exposing Ein to more needles and my wallet to paying for the vet's house.
Thanks,
Steven

Hi Steve,

The medications used for Cushing's do not cure it, the goal of therapy is to control those clinical Cushing's symptoms. Since Ein does not show any obvious Cushing's symptoms, I agree with the wait and see approach. ;)

And she is such a cutie pie!

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Since you are probably going with the wait and see option, and I did the same for a couple years, I would say a couple things and one is to have the blood work checked like every 6 months, just a cbc to see how things are going along and if you notice some of those levels start to rise you can catch it early. The other is to have her BP checked when you are doing the 6 month check too as cortisol can cause hypertension and lead to other issues, so these are just things to stay on top of any potential issues, whatever they may be.

[CN I Dawg]

Thank you all for you help and support.

Yes, I will take the wait and see approach. After reading the references on this site, I don't see the typical manifestation of Cushings in either the blood work or in clinical symptoms.

Btw, some of the reference links are broken. I just wanted you to know.

Thanks again,
Steven

[Squirt's Mom]

Do you remember off hand which links you tried that were broken? And thanks so much for letting us know! We try to keep that current but it does it away from us at times. :o