Brave Gabriel is now free

[Gabriel]

Hi, my belgian Shepherd who is 11 years old had a seizure on Monday so I took him to the vet yesterday and he said the blood test results showed some things were high so today I took him back in for more blood tests.
They said they gave him something and then tested the blood an hour later and the results showed that normal would be 600 and he is 636
(I think he said something about cortisol)
Sorry I think it went over my head a bit - but he wants to wait a week to see if my dog has any more fits. If they start the medication now the fit could be a reaction to the drugs so thats why they want to wait a week to see if he has any more fits.

Because I mentioned he was drinking more than usual (although he seems ok today) - they think its Cushings disease. He is also having accidents around the house on and off and appears to have stiff limbs.

I had a Belgian before this one that had Addisons disease, he lived only 6 years - so we picked the Alpha of the pack this time - in the vain hope that he would be healthy - which means he was harder to train and probably why the vets had trouble with him - he doesn't like kennels, his leg shaved, injections or a thermometer going strange places - so maybe I should train him to wear a muzzle next time to be safe?

I watched my last Addisons dog die painfully as he vomited all night until the vet asked us to put him down the following day as his organs were collapsing. I hated signing the death warrant and my now ex did it instead. This time it will be on me I don't know if I can live with that.

Can anyone tell me what is ahead? Will it be that bad?

If he gets more seizures I may go down the scan route but I would have to travel to England as there isn't one in Wales.
So for now he will be treated for Cushings next week and for the rest of his life the vet said.

At least my dog has outlived most of his siblings - but it is heartbreaking to go through this again - I know how you all feel.

So can anyone explain what is ahead please? Thanks....:)

[Squirt's Mom]

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[flynnandian]

hi, welcome on this forum.
i've had 3 belgian sheperds; 2 malinois and 1 groenendaeler.
which one do you have? there are 4 varieties in europe where i live and the breed is considered a very healthy one over here.
only seizures in the long haired ones. esp. tervueren.
i now see you are from england. i am from the other side of the north sea.
your dog had an acth-test to test his cortisol levels. please ask your vet for the results and post them here.
are his only symptoms thirst and stiff limbs?
we love numbers over here and test results. don't start with meds till you know for sure it is cushing's disease.
the experts on this forum will give you more tips on how to handle things.

[Gabriel]

hi, welcome on this forum.
i've had 3 belgian sheperds; 2 malinois and 1 groenendaeler.
which one do you have? there are 4 varieties in europe where i live and the breed is considered a very healthy one over here.
only seizures in the long haired ones. esp. tervueren.
i now see you are from england. i am from the other side of the north sea.
your dog had an acth-test to test his cortisol levels. please ask your vet for the results and post them here.
are his only symptoms thirst and stiff limbs?
we love numbers over here and test results. don't start with meds till you know for sure it is cushing's disease.
the experts on this forum will give you more tips on how to handle things.

Thanks for the helpful advice. I wasn't given the results only shown them.
I will ask for them when I visit next time.
He is a Groenendael - the long black haired type.
Yes I'm from Wales.
I can see that Cushings is difficult to diagnose especially if a dog is ageing anyway but he definitely has got more stiff over the last few months - to the point where I am taking shorter walks with him.
I've also noticed since he came back from the vets he is snoring loudly. Is that related - he's not overweight but is heavier than usual.

Did you have any dogs after the belgians?

[molly muffin]

The main thing with cushings is getting the cortisol to acceptable limits and then keeping them there. Not too high and not too low. Once you get to that point, they usually just go on doing their own thing some for many years. (we have a member whose dog has been treated for 8 years and doing fine) The key though is to not start medication too high, 1mg/1lb is where they should start at. This lessens the risk of an overdose and Addison's crisis.

If you can get copies of tests that were done, it would be beneficial to know any that where too high or too low and the range.
If it is cushings off course. You also would want to have him checked for a UTI (via a culture), so check his kidneys, thyroid, and rule those things out before going to cushings as the diagnosis.

Welcome to the forum!

[flynnandian]

the belgians were all rescues. after them i bought a sheltie and a border collie. and rescued an italian greyhound mix.
i did compete in lots of doggy sports like agility, obedience, herding, ipo etc.
i am looking for a new dog belgian or border collie, but i have 2 sheltie mix siblings with cushing's [almost 13 and 14 years old] and i don't think they can handle a new puppy in the house. so i will have to wait.
most cush dogs show lots of thirst, drinking buckets, ask for food non stop, pant a lot, are pot bellied, and show muscle loss in their back legs.
does your dog show signs like these?
some dogs get seizures because they do have a macro tumor in their brain because of the cushing's disease, pressuring certain areas that can cause seizures.
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6171&highlight=spencer%27s
e.g. this dog named spencer.
what tests did the vet perform other than the acth-test?
blood work, ldds-test etc.?
please don't start with meds before you know for sure it is cushing's disease. and no more than 1 mg/pound, 2mg/kilo based on your dogs bodyweight when using the drug vetoryl.
i hope your dog doesn't get any more seizures.
maybe your vet can email the test results so you don't have to wait till your next visit.

[Gabriel]

Thank you Mollymuffin and Flynnandian.
Sorry that you are going through this.

They did blood tests the first day after the seizure and told me two or three things were high but no signs of kidney problems or diabetes.

They thought the seizure may cause some results to be higher so waited a day then took him in for a morning where they did more blood and urine tests. He was shaved under his neck and on his leg so I think they did a number of tests.

The high levels they said and the water drinking made them think it was Cushings although he seems to be drinking less I did mention that to the vet. He said he wants to start low and we both have reservations about giving him a scan unless he shows huge problems such as more seizures.

Symptoms I've noticed in the last few months:

Doesn't like jumping in or out of the car -I give him a leg up - teaching him to use a ramp.

On short walks he makes a noise like he's dragging his feet - he used to do that after a long walk when tired.

Was drinking loads but seems to have calmed down to a normal amount.

Belly is rounded not really pot but he has some lumps under his armpit area the vet said was ok and has put on a bit of weight but not overweight.

His back is slightly more curved and his shoulder blades seem slightly humped in the middle ridge.

He has trouble getting up sometimes like he has stiff back legs that have seized - other times he is ok - but he growls/moans in protest if I ask him to get up now.

Started snoring loudly and has a runny nose since the seizure.

Not interested in playing much - would rather sleep. Seems depressed.

Coat is healthy.

Barks at the post sometimes used to do it every day.

Asks for food after he has been fed and steals food from the bins.

Has poop and pee accidents in the house sometimes.

It feels like he has aged suddenly in about 4 to 6 months. I'd expect an old dog to be like this but it felt faster than it should be...if you know what I mean.
I was about to call the vet about his accidents in the house when they stopped - they are intermittent like his drinking habits. I thought it was an urinary infection.

An hour before he had the fit his temperature rocketed which made me suspect an urinary infection again also I know from having kids if their temperature goes over 40 they can have a fit - but if he had an infection it didn't show up in the results.

During his fit he pooped and when he came around he sniffed the poop and looked at me as if to say 'what the...how did that get there?' I didn't know to laugh or cry - I think I did both.

In case he does get hot again does anyone know how to cool a dog down? Thanks.

[flynnandian]

first i want to tell you that i am surprised that he has so many health problems. he is 11 and that is not old for a belgian sheperd.
there are not many health problems in the breed.
his siblings died at age 10 last year and in january this year.
that is way too young for any b.s.
your last one having addison's etc.
did the parents die young too?
i am in the b.s. world for 30 years now and i have never heared about this health problems over here in belgium and the netherlands.
some symptoms you are mentioning look like cushing's symptoms, but others don't.
like you said it looks like you are talking about a 15 year old dog instead of an 11 year old b.s.
but we can't help you without knowing which tests the vet performed and what the results were.
please ask the vet to mail them to you, so the experts on this forum can look at them and help you.

[Gabriel]

first i want to tell you that i am surprised that he has so many health problems. he is 11 and that is not old for a belgian sheperd.
there are not many health problems in the breed.
his siblings died at age 10 last year and in january this year.
that is way too young for any b.s.
your last one having addison's etc.
did the parents die young too?
i am in the b.s. world for 30 years now and i have never heared about this health problems over here in belgium and the netherlands.
some symptoms you are mentioning look like cushing's symptoms, but others don't.
like you said it looks like you are talking about a 15 year old dog instead of an 11 year old b.s.
but we can't help you without knowing which tests the vet performed and what the results were.
please ask the vet to mail them to you, so the experts on this forum can look at them and help you.

Thanks I will get them next time I visit the vet next week.

The dog came out of his depression yesterday I could see he was happy and was running around a field and jumped in and out of the car unaided - stopped having accidents in the house.
I'm really confused now as the symptoms seem to come and go.
One day he is like a young dog another like an old dog with Cushings.


If Cushings symptoms don't come and go it must be something else so I will get those results checked before he starts any meds.

[flynnandian]

doing well at shows doen't say anything about the health of a dog .
i think this was a weak litter, i don't know if there are more siblings from another litter or if you can figure out what the health problems are in his pedigree.
it doesn't look like cushing's to me either. cushing's doesn't come and go indeed. UTI maybe, infection, fever, thyroid?
glad that he is feeling better today.
[cush dogs usually drink buckets of water and are very hungry, restless, panting, muscle loss etc.]
i hope he stays this way and gets better by himself. that would be nice!
and no meds before you are 100% sure he actually has cushing's.
what does your vet think is wrong with him after performing all those tests?
did he or she just mention cushing's?
i hope you and the vet will figure out what is wrong with him.
good luck!

[mytil]

Hi - I have just a sec but wanted to ask about epilepsy. Has your vet mentioned anything about this? Here is a link - http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/FAQ.html that talks about breed prevalence and symptoms.

Terry

[Gabriel]

Hi - I have just a sec but wanted to ask about epilepsy. Has your vet mentioned anything about this? Here is a link - http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/FAQ.html that talks about breed prevalence and symptoms.

Terry

Thanks for the link.
The vet didn't give me any advice on what to do if he has another seizure so this is helpful.
He did mention epilepsy but because of the other symptoms and test results thinks its more likely Cushings unless he has more seizures.

He had a Grand Mal Tonic -clonic generalized seizure from the info you gave me.
I also noticed that the weeks before the seizure he was wandering the upstairs rooms at night when he usually sleeps downstairs so maybe that was the aura.

Today he had a poop in the house after coming back in but was trying hard to make it back to the door. I didn't make any fuss about it.

[judymaggie]

Hi! Here is another website regarding canine seizures that may have some helpful information for you:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/default.htm

My first Cush pup, Maggie, had seizures and the Epi Guardian Angels were a lifeline for me, particularly about what to do during and after a seizure.

[Gabriel]

Hi! Here is another website regarding canine seizures that may have some helpful information for you:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/default.htm

My first Cush pup, Maggie, had seizures and the Epi Guardian Angels were a lifeline for me, particularly about what to do during and after a seizure.

Thankyou for the link. I am very grateful. Hopefully he won't have any more seizures.

[flynnandian]

we all wish him a seizure free future! what is the name of your dog?

[Gabriel]

we all wish him a seizure free future! what is the name of your dog?

Gabriel. Thanks I wish good health to you and your dogs too :)

[flynnandian]

ok, i thought it was your name....
is he still seizure free?
is he still out of his depression?
my groenendaeler's name was ambor. people bought him because they couldn't conceive kids and after 7 years the wife was pregnant and the dog had to leave... so i rescued him.

[Gabriel]

ok, i thought it was your name....
is he still seizure free?
is he still out of his depression?
my groenendaeler's name was ambor. people bought him because they couldn't conceive kids and after 7 years the wife was pregnant and the dog had to leave... so i rescued him.

Oh that's so sad when people give up on their pets - but thankfully people like you are around ;)

He is still out of the depression but we had to coax him to go for a walk today. Its strange the other day he acted like nothing was wrong and jumped and ran about and days like today he ignores the postman and just wants to sleep.
He seemed happy on the walk in the sun but not up for running about.
It must be stiffness or arthritis in his limbs or cushings possibly.

Will be taking him to the vet on Monday see what he thinks we should do. Whatever it is the symptoms come and go.

Is that typical for cushings?

[flynnandian]

no that is not typical for cushing's.
i think there is something else going on.
arthritis can come and go. it is worse after a lot of exercise or cold/wet weather.
and again; don't start with cushing meds till you are 100% sure it is cushing's disease.
and please ask for the test results and post them in your thread.
we need them to help you.
good luck tomorrow.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and a belated welcome to you and Gabriel!

I am sorry about the circumstances that brought you here but I'm glad you found us.

In order to keep myself on track, I've typed my questions and comments in blue text within the body of your post below.





They did blood tests the first day after the seizure and told me two or three things were high but no signs of kidney problems or diabetes.

Could you get copies of those test/s and post the results here along with the reference ranges and units of measurement?....e.g...ALT 150 U/L (5-50)...thanks!

They thought the seizure may cause some results to be higher so waited a day then took him in for a morning where they did more blood and urine tests. He was shaved under his neck and on his leg so I think they did a number of tests.

The high levels they said and the water drinking made them think it was Cushings although he seems to be drinking less I did mention that to the vet. He said he wants to start low and we both have reservations about giving him a scan unless he shows huge problems such as more seizures.


I spoke to the breeder last night and most of his siblings died last year of old age, two in January this year, one died of a brain tumour. Maybe I should mention that to the vet ?

Symptoms I've noticed in the last few months:

Doesn't like jumping in or out of the car -I give him a leg up - teaching him to use a ramp.

On short walks he makes a noise like he's dragging his feet - he used to do that after a long walk when tired.

Was drinking loads but seems to have calmed down to a normal amount.

Belly is rounded not really pot but he has some lumps under his armpit area the vet said was ok and has put on a bit of weight but not overweight.

His back is slightly more curved and his shoulder blades seem slightly humped in the middle ridge.

He has trouble getting up sometimes like he has stiff back legs that have seized - other times he is ok - but he growls/moans in protest if I ask him to get up now.

Started snoring loudly and has a runny nose since the seizure.

Not interested in playing much - would rather sleep. Seems depressed.

Coat is healthy.

Barks at the post sometimes used to do it every day.

Asks for food after he has been fed and steals food from the bins.

Has poop and pee accidents in the house sometimes.

Strong symptoms do play a huge role in the diagnosis for Cushing's. Also, those Cushing's symptoms do not wax and wane in a dog.

The goal of treatment is to remedy problematic symptoms of Cushing's, which are usually a bigger problem for the owner than the dog.

Gabriel's symptoms do not scream Cushing's, and if this were me, I wouldn't pursue any more tests for Cushing's unless he would start being symptomatic.

Cushing's is not a painful disease. Dogs are usually quite okay with it, especially dogs with arthritis. Excess cortisol is a strong anti-inflammatory so these dogs are self medicating, masking signs of arthritis.

It feels like he has aged suddenly in about 4 to 6 months. I'd expect an old dog to be like this but it felt faster than it should be...if you know what I mean.
I was about to call the vet about his accidents in the house when they stopped - they are intermittent like his drinking habits. I thought it was an urinary infection.

An hour before he had the fit his temperature rocketed which made me suspect an urinary infection again also I know from having kids if their temperature goes over 40 they can have a fit - but if he had an infection it didn't show up in the results.

Does he have a low USG (urine specific gravity)? If so, a regular urinalysis isn't sensitive enough to pick up an infection when the urine is diluted. When an UTI is suspected in a dog with diluted urine an urine culture and sensitivity test is needed.

During his fit he pooped and when he came around he sniffed the poop and looked at me as if to say 'what the...how did that get there?' I didn't know to laugh or cry - I think I did both.

In case he does get hot again does anyone know how to cool a dog down? Thanks.

When my boy, Harley, was getting hot I used to spritz water on his belly and on his paws, he didn't seem to mind it and it did cool him down.

Please know we are here to help in any way we can, and do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[Gabriel]

Hi and a belated welcome to you and Gabriel!

I am sorry about the circumstances that brought you here but I'm glad you found us.

In order to keep myself on track, I've typed my questions and comments in blue text within the body of your post below.




Please know we are here to help in any way we can, and do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want. ;)

Hugs, Lori

Thanks Lori, that is very helpful.

My dog had another seizure just now (11:15am).
Yesterday I did say he was lethargic on the walk but was able to jump out of the car unaided.

The fit was whole body and he peed himself and is still wobbly on his feet - I just spoke gently to him, kept the kids away and he is following me for comfort but I am avoiding his face in case he bites again. He doesn't seem aggressive though just wobbly.
He's drinking now.


I will take him to the vets tomorrow - disappointed that he has had another fit - but taking each day as it comes.

[flynnandian]

i am sorry to hear that gabriel has had another seizure.
once the epilepsy comes to the surface things like vaccinations, flea treatment, deworming , detergents etc, can lower the threshold for another seizure.
since gabriel is already 11 years old his seizures are not a congenital malformation, but secundary to another health issue. but which one?
that is most of the time very hard to find out.
they never found out what caused it in my dog.
in my country they do prescripe meds when there is less than 4 weeks between seizures, or when the dog has cluster seizures [multiple seizures within 24 hour]
maybe you need to go to a specialist vet, because this sounds like a complex case.
we will think about you tomorrow!

[Gabriel]

i am sorry to hear that gabriel has had another seizure.
once the epilepsy comes to the surface things like vaccinations, flea treatment, deworming , detergents etc, can lower the threshold for another seizure.
since gabriel is already 11 years old his seizures are not a congenital malformation, but secundary to another health issue. but which one?
that is most of the time very hard to find out.
they never found out what caused it in my dog.
in my country they do prescripe meds when there is less than 4 weeks between seizures, or when the dog has cluster seizures [multiple seizures within 24 hour]
maybe you need to go to a specialist vet, because this sounds like a complex case.
we will think about you tomorrow!

Thanks that's very kind of you.
That must have been very difficult for you - not having a diagnosis.
All we can do is try to make them comfortable and happy and hope that the vets also do their best for them :)

[flynnandian]

All we can do is try to make them comfortable and happy and hope that the vets also do their best for them.
100% true!
how did your appointment go today?

[Gabriel]

All we can do is try to make them comfortable and happy and hope that the vets also do their best for them.
100% true!
how did your appointment go today?

Thanks for asking.
I'm going tonight. The vet I saw last time asked me to make sure I ask for him so that he can keep on my case - he wasn't available until tonight as he was on call but since Gabriel is ok at the moment I don't see any harm in waiting an extra day.

I hope he gives me a copy of the test results - I'll be sure to ask.

[Gabriel]

Well it looks like I may not have a dog with Cushings.
The vet isn't happy to go ahead with the Cushings treatment because my dog had the second seizure and because he is no longer drinking excessively.

He wants him to have a brain scan for a possible tumour - that means he will have to travel from Wales to Bristol for the scan.

He said he will ring Bristol and let me know within the week.

Also he thinks that even if it is Cushings I will be unable to give Gabriel the treatment as the tablets cannot be crushed so I cannot mix it with his food. Gabriel has an issue with tablets - he won't let me give them by hand - without me losing mine anyway.

So he suggested that the best course of action is to scan him then if it is epilepsy he will be able to give him medication for that.

I got distracted as Gabriel was refusing to have the thermometer this time - so I forgot to ask him for last weeks test results but I remember that only two things were high but only one thing flagged for the vet and that was the cortisone levels which he said were 636 instead of around 600.

Hope all your dogs are happy and feeling good today ;)

[molly muffin]

Well I am glad that there is a plan to figure out what is going on. It does seem that the seizures need to take precedence right now and the vet is right, there is medication for that, so I do hope they find the answers for you.

He won't take a tablet even wrapped in food? What if you put the tablet wrapped in say wet dog food, (I form a ball around it) and then put it in the bowl. Would he take that? Just in case it comes up in the future?

[Gabriel]

Well I am glad that there is a plan to figure out what is going on. It does seem that the seizures need to take precedence right now and the vet is right, there is medication for that, so I do hope they find the answers for you.

He won't take a tablet even wrapped in food? What if you put the tablet wrapped in say wet dog food, (I form a ball around it) and then put it in the bowl. Would he take that? Just in case it comes up in the future?

I had to give him tablets before and wrapped them in cheese, ham, etc.. and he kept eating the food and spitting the tablet out.
In the end I crushed them and put them in peanut butter - that worked.
The vet says the epilepsy tablets would be crushable.

I have no idea how much a brain scan costs in the UK - if anyone does let me know - thanks.

[flynnandian]

lots of members have troubles feeding pills and capsules to their dogs.
me too. every day.
there are so many options, members using; peanut butter, cream cheese, wet cat and dogfood, chicken, tuna, and even hot dogs.
there are also commercial pill wrappers.
but there are also members who are using liquid stuff and tasty pills.
maybe they can tell you where to get them.
please ask your vet to mail the test results, there are a lot of experts over here on the forum.
those mri scans are very expensive and gabriel needs to be sedated , that would be a risk for a dog having seizures.
and what if he has a brain tumour, what can you do?
can't your vet do an abdominal scan first to see how his organs and adrenals look. and perform a LDDS-test. then you know more about whether it is cushing's or not.
can you ask your vet for the ACTH-test results?
i hope gabriel has a good night sleep after his eventful vet visit.

[molly muffin]

Well that is terrible about the insurance :( You'd think that for gabriel's sake he would step up to the plate where the insurance is concerned. grrrrrr

Would the insurance pay for the scan? I would be concerned about anesthetize too, did your vet mention that as a concern?

I don't know how much a scan is in the the UK. In the US it is very expensive if it is am MRI.

[LauraA]

If you do go down the Cushings road and have to medicate you can get the trilostane (which is Vetoryl) in a liquid form, that may work as you can then mix it with his food. Or you can get a chewable form which I imagine you could also crush (I may be wrong in that though, I am sure someone that uses the chewable form will let you if that is correct :) )

[Gabriel]

@flynnandian - that is a good point.
On my first visit I voiced my concern to the vet about him being sedated at 11 and we agreed if he was having lots of seizures we might then go down that road of a scan so I was surprised that he decided he needs one.


If he does have a tumour if its easily removed by surgery and gives him another year of trouble free life then that would be good but I would be reluctant to have him go through the radiation or chemotherapy which I think they use after and involves sedation.

And the vet seemed to want to go down the road of treating only the seizures as epilepsy so maybe the scan is not needed anyway.

The symptom that made him rule out Cushings was excessive drinking as he's not doing that now but he is falling over and swaying a bit which makes me think its a brain tumour.


@LauraA - he didn't tell me about the liquid form for Cushings - only the ones he has in stock which were large tablets - I will ask him about that if the dog needs medicine in tablet form- thanks.

[Gabriel]

How much does a dog have to be drinking before it's Cushings?

He's started emptying his bowl of water again.
I use a metal large breed sized bowl and fill it half way morning, again at midday and again the evening and before bed I fill it a quarter of the way.

His normal behaviour is to graze on the water but some days like yesterday and today he empties each bowl.

How much is excessive?
Thanks.

[Harley PoMMom]

The normal amount of water for a dog with out Cushing's drinks is approximately 1 ounce per pound of the dog's weight. Is he drinking a lot more than that?

[Gabriel]

The normal amount of water for a dog with out Cushing's drinks is approximately 1 ounce per pound of the dog's weight. Is he drinking a lot more than that?

Thanks. Yes I can see that he drinks excessively for his weight - but it lasts one or two days and he goes back to normal. That is the part that is unusual for Cushings - but he is ravenous all the time.

My vet has gone on holiday and said he could not get in contact with the scan centre before he left - but left the other vets with instructions to start dosing epileptic drugs if my dog has another fit meanwhile.

Only problem is that now I have another crisis to deal with - he used to get an itchy belly rash which the vet thought was a bad cat flea bite reaction - I changed his food, give him hypoallergenic biscuits only and it cleared up. Hadn't had a rash for a few years.

But now he has got a flare up - his whole belly is bright red, he growls at us when we ask him to stop chewing and licking ferociously at it - and it started giving out pus - although I think its healing now if he leaves it alone - its a lighter pink - but he bit his belly until it bled just now - so not helpful.
I have been cleaning it for two days with warm salt water , trying to dab it dry but he won't let me touch it much.
Yesterday I had to pour water over it then he wouldn't let me dry it so I put a towel under him. It needs to dry out to heal.

Sometimes he lies quietly and lets me clean it lightly -other times he growls at me like he's swearing at me - so I am going on his moods.

So I'm guessing that his body is working on fighting the brain thing and that is why other secondary things are going wrong with him.

I get the impression that the vets don't like working with him because he is growly at them when they are alone with him - but he's always been like this when he is in pain. My last dog had Addison's disease and was in incredible pain and never growled once. I trained him in exactly the same way.

Sometimes his belly hurts, I tell him off for scratching, he growls at me, sounds like he's swearing at me, bares his teeth comes right up to me then puts his head in my lap and moans - he's my baby - but that is scary - even though I know what he's saying - 'mum I'm hurting and it's your fault, I'm angry at you, make it go away, I love you.'.

I changed vets after my last dog died as I felt they didn't pick up on something that could have saved him - he was only 6. I can't keep not trusting the vets.

At the end of the day its just a rash but I'm afraid to do what I normally do in case the treatment from the vets makes things even worse - gives him seizures etc...I hate making decisions about others lives.

And I'm still unsure if he has a brain tumour or Cushings and if it even matters as I don't want him to undergo surgery when he'd rather be at home that I am sure of.

How you guys keep sane I don't know lol.

[Harley PoMMom]

Sometimes Benadryl (Diphenhydramine (Generic Benadryl))
may help with allergies, the dosage I found for dogs is 1-2mg per pound and can be given 3 times a day...here's a chart I found: http://www.thedogplace.org/health/medication-conversion-pets_penn-126.asp

Hugs, Lori

[Gabriel]

Sometimes Benadryl (Diphenhydramine (Generic Benadryl))
may help with allergies, the dosage I found for dogs is 1-2mg per pound and can be given 3 times a day...here's a chart I found: http://www.thedogplace.org/health/medication-conversion-pets_penn-126.asp

Hugs, Lori

Thanks Lori x

[molly muffin]

Yes I agree with lori. Give the benadryl a try. Would he wear a soft cone to keep him from licking and biting at the area?

[LauraA]

My vet tells me to use Zyrtec (or generic brand) from the Chemist, I assume this is the same as benadryl (I am in Australia), also if you have some betadine antiseptic solution you can dilute it down and apply to the itchy area.

[Gabriel]

Yes I agree with lori. Give the benadryl a try. Would he wear a soft cone to keep him from licking and biting at the area?

Since he had the fits his personality has changed a bit, I think that's why I am so wary of going to the vets now. They won't be able to look at his belly or put a cone on him.

It was improving this morning until he had a go at it then he made his skin swell. Only his belly and face seems to be itchy.
I will try the benadryl - I also poured a bit of oatmeal in water on his belly hopefully that will stop the itching a bit.

Thanks.

[Squirt's Mom]

A rinse of Chamomile tea can help with itching....but be sure he's not allergic to Chamomile! ;)

[Bonnie0420]

Im so so sorry you are having to go through this, Poor guy. just another suggestion but can you find the Benadryl spray? That might help as well as giving a low dose of Benedryl or the generic brand....anything with an antihistamine
good luck...

Bonnie

[Gabriel]

Thanks for the advice .

His belly is still swollen and his face too so I've made an appointment to see the vets today.

He sleeps all day now and only gets up to go outside to the toilet if we all coax him together and shout to him.

I also noticed that he can't stand long on his front paws and is putting his weight back on his forearms so it looks like the Cushings photos when he stands.

I reached the point where home treatment wasn't working. I managed to stop the itching for him and I think the rash is drying out but the swelling is not something that I think I should wait out.


Update: This vet was a different one (mine is on holiday) and was really helpful this time..
I had photos of his belly as he refused to show the vet it - he lifted his paw but wouldn't roll over lol.
He gave me a spray for his belly and told me to give him puritan for his face.
And he's going to chat to the Bristol scanning centre about what's best for him as it would be a three day thing for him away from us and he is clingy to me at the moment.
- they think it is Cushings now - they are just deciding what treatment is best.
Looks like the possible brain tumour is causing him to feel weird when people touch his face and that would explain him not letting me groom him or vets touching him.

Hope all your dogs are having a good day - its a relief to know he is out of pain now. Thanks for the benadryl advice - that saved the day. Phew !

[Gabriel]

They are starting him on vetrynol? vitriol? tomorrow - anyone know what that is?

But I agree that scans are not the best option for him.

So this is for Cushings and hopefully his energy levels will increase.

Thanks for all your help so far. I'd like to comment on other peoples posts but I don't have a clue about Cushings - all I can do is pray for good health for everyone doggies on here - I do that every day x

[molly muffin]

Vetroyl, and yes it is for cushings.

Starting dose should not be over 1mg/1lb or 2mg/1kg. (the manufacture has recently updated their recommendations and not all vets are aware of this)

[flynnandian]

i hope gabriel will feel better soon.
but i don't understand the 3 day stay for a scan?
the med is called vetoryl. there is a lot of info about it on this forum or use google.
which tests did they perform to confirm cushing's and what are the numbers?

[Harley PoMMom]

which tests did they perform to confirm cushing's and what are the numbers?

We really need to see the results of the test/s that were performed to diagnose Gabriel's Cushing's. Also, could you post the abnormal levels from Gabriel's most recent CBC/Chemistry blood panel?...e.g....ALT 150 U/L (5-50)..thanks!

How are his symptoms now?

Hopefully his belly and face will improve quickly.

Keep us updated. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[Gabriel]

We really need to see the results of the test/s that were performed to diagnose Gabriel's Cushing's. Also, could you post the abnormal levels from Gabriel's most recent CBC/Chemistry blood panel?...e.g....ALT 150 U/L (5-50)..thanks!

How are his symptoms now?

Hopefully his belly and face will improve quickly.

Keep us updated. ;)

Hugs, Lori

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to pick up the meds today so will ask them for a copy of the results. I have asked before they keep forgetting as they are always busy.
His belly is getting better still a bit swollen because he must have licked himself during the night - hopefully the spray won't harm him - putting a t-shirt on him, collar or muzzle wasn't an option we could use because he is grumpy/ aggressive if we over-touch him - the vet didn't want us to get bitten. We watch him during the day but he wants to sleep on the kitchen floor at night as its colder.

The 3 day scan I think is because they have to travel a load of pets together from Wales to England for the scans. Or maybe they do treatments at the same time.
They decided against it for him anyway.

He's sleeping all day now, at the vets he couldn't stand long on his legs without moving the weight back and forth,(he's not overweight but has got a little heavier from lack of exercise ) he was leaning on me the whole time, he is drinking plenty of water, seems dry mouthed a lot and is always hungry though.
He was pacing about last night ( which makes me worry there may be a fit on the way).
Hard to tell what he will be like without the rash - he might perk up - I've been told to start the Vetoryl at the same time as the rash treatment.

So I will check they are starting him low - the last vet did mention if they started Cushings they'd start low and work upward if needed. Same with the epilepsy - I'm hoping not to use epilepsy drugs unless he is having too many seizures. Two in the last 3 weeks so far. I'll wait that one out.

Good news is that the vets have agreed to be paid by the insurance company direct which means my ex hubby won't get the money (its in his name). As long as I can get him to sign the docs that should be ok.

[Gabriel]

There was such a long que at the vets - probably as its Easter weekend so everyone is thinking it will be closed.

I asked the receptionist for a copy of the results but she told me to remind the vet next time I get an appointment.

They gave us 60mg Vetoryl - one a day capsules and told me to wrap it in meat and hope for the best as they can't be crushed.

That sounds like it must be 2mg per 1 kg of his body weight as they weighed him when he had tests.

I'm just not sure when to start - was going to tomorrow lunchtime - he is panting heavily and still swollen and red all over his belly. Should I wait for him to start healing a bit more - or as the vet thinks it won't matter that he is taking cortavance spray and pirutan- the treatment may help stop the rash symptoms too?

Any advice on a time of day to take the tablets?
And how long before any side effects or improvements are usually noticed?

Thanks.

[molly muffin]

morning, is the best time as follow up test have to be done within a specific time frame of 4 - 6 hours after the meds are given.

hope this helps and makes a huge difference for the better for him!

[Gabriel]

morning, is the best time as follow up test have to be done within a specific time frame of 4 - 6 hours after the meds are given.

hope this helps and makes a huge difference for the better for him!

Thanks for the advice :)
He's sleeping a lot probably because of the puritan as well as illness.
Took his first Vetoryl tablet ok in a piece of cheese without spitting it out.
Spray seems to be working slightly as belly a little bit less swollen.
Face is very swollen tonight - can't dose him again today though
just hope he can sleep it off.

When you can't stop their discomfort thats the bit I hate.

[Gabriel]

Day 5 of the puritan the last day of tablets the vet gave and his face is still itchy, red, swollen and he has a very stuffy nose.
Also day 5 of the spray for his belly and half is ok but the other side is still red, swollen and extruding yellow pus this morning which he asked me to clean off by lifting his leg at me - so the pain must be lessening although he growled when he'd had enough..

Only 7 days allowed of the spray so I'm guessing another trip to the vets is coming up.

Day 3 of Vetoryl - he vomited it back up today. I think he could taste it in his food. Unfortunately he spat some of the powder from the capsule all over the carpet so I couldn't try again.

He went on a short walk yesterday enjoyed the sunshine but was exhausted after.

He stinks! The house stinks ! But that's the infection I know.

Any ideas on what I can wash his legs, fur around his belly and butt with? His fur is matting from his licking and he keeps his tail curled under him and has a runny tummy so he needs a frequent wash down.

I just used water yesterday afraid to set him off - some people say tea tree oil yet that is supposed to be poisonous, others say baby shampoo, or Apple cider vinegar, epsom salts - but he had a fit the day after I washed the carpets with cider vinegar so I'm a bit scared to try it even though the vet thinks that was unrelated.

I'll wash him again in the morning. Not his belly though - unless it is pus covered.

I've been advised to put some bicarbonate of soda on the carpets and hoover off to remove the smell - will that set him off?

I think most of the smell is him anyway.

Happy Easter everyone by the way :)

[Harley PoMMom]

One of our Administrators, Glynda, has had good luck with Hibiclens and Vetericyn, I've included her post below.


I forgot to mention to you that if she has an open, oozing wound, I recommend that you clean it with an antimicrobial skin cleanser. I keep Hibiclens on hand for that as well as Vetericyn. It's a winning combination for any infection. You can get Hibiclens at any pharmacy. I don't know if you remember but I became familiar with Hibeclens when I was taking care of Abby, the little Chi who had a leg and most of the toes on her other foot amputated by a train. The foot with the amputated toes was completely wrapped in gauze. By the second day, the stench was horrific. The surgeon told me to the remove the wrap and clean the toes with Hibiclens. I did not rewrap her foot and cleaned her toes with Hibiclens a few times a day and sprayed them with Vetericyn to promote healing.

[Gabriel]

One of our Administrators, Glynda, has had good luck with Hibiclens and Vetericyn, I've included her post below.

Oh thanks. I'll look that up.

Wed:
He's much better today - spent the day lying in the sun on a picnic rug letting the sunshine get at his belly - that dried it up good :cool:
Didn't want to walk far.
His urine is bright orange despite drinking loads - I'm assuming it's his meds as his poop is also orange tinged.
He was spitting his food out -was worried that the Cushings tablets were making him sick - hopefully that's not the case

Thurs:
He spent sleeping in one of the kids old play tents in the garden while the children played in theirs.
He slept with a huge smile on his face so I reckon that was on his bucket list ;)
Thought it best not to walk him as it was hottest day of the year here and he tires easily.

- he ate well today but did seem a bit queasy.
He actually came upstairs to greet us in the morning - something he hasn't done for a few weeks.


Today:
He has had a small amount of diarrhoea. I'm hoping that his stomach will settle down.

Something I never asked the vet - do you know how long a Cushings dog aged 11 (his breed last 12-14 at most) that is having seizures and a suspected brain tumour will live
only using Vetoryl ?
Roughly speaking of course - are we talking weeks, months or years?

And how much exercise should you give your lethargic Cushings dogs?

Maybe my questions are a bit 'how long is a piece of string?' - but I'm hoping there is an average answer. Thanks ;)

[Gabriel]

He had a seizure yesterday and today both at 10pm.
His first seizure was also at that time. Nothing happens I can think of to set it off though.

He bit his tongue or gum during the fit (he won't let me see) as there was blood all over the towel I put under his head.
he didn't get up after the fit the last two times - it's like he knows he'll be dizzy so he lies there for 10 mins.

One seizure a day - if this continues I'll get sick myself I'm all in knots - he's such a large dog and my heart races. After he wandered around for about 15 mins falling over then lies back down.

I throw warmish water over his bits because he peed himself and don't want that setting off another rash.

The vet rang me yesterday before the fit and I said he was getting better - he has an appointment to check the meds this week coming up - I'll ring the vet to tell him he's having more seizures.
Is this related to the Vetoryl? Probably not. Probably a brain tumour.

It's one of those times when life is on hold and you don't know how long for - will he get better enough for my elderly parents to dogsit him so that I can give the kids a holiday? Will he be like this for years? Or will he have only a few days or weeks left to live?

It's the not knowing bit that is hard - all I know is that he has Cushings and a possible brain tumour giving him fits - and a bad rash allergy that flared up and made breathing through his nose hard - no one has told me how long I have got left with him or if his brain will cause him to chase me around the house trying to kill me at some point - or if he will have a painful ending and I have to just sit and watch and wait for a vet to arrive- it's the questions I'm too scared to ask the vet lol in case I sound like a crazy person that are making me a crazy person lol.

[Harley PoMMom]

I am sorry to hear that Gabriel's seizures have not stopped :( it may be time to add an anti-seizure medication, Marianne (labblab) is having success with pheno for her furbaby, Peg.



Something I never asked the vet - do you know how long a Cushings dog aged 11 (his breed last 12-14 at most) that is having seizures and a suspected brain tumour will live
only using Vetoryl ?

Dog's with Cushing's and that are successfully being treated usually do live out their normal life span, with seizures thrown in I'm not sure how much of an effect that would have on their life span.



And how much exercise should you give your lethargic Cushings dogs?

As long as they are willing and wanting to exercise I see no reason in not letting them, however, Cushing's does make a dog more vulnerable to cruciate ligament tears

[Gabriel]

I am sorry to hear that Gabriel's seizures have not stopped :( it may be time to add an anti-seizure medication, Marianne (labblab) is having success with pheno for her furbaby, Peg.

Oh thanks so much for that info.
Yes it is likely they will start him on anti-seizure meds.

He went for a walk today and was falling over a bit - not sure if it was his legs or brain giving way.

[labblab]

I received your note and quickly came over to take a look at your thread. I am so sorry that your boy is having such a rough time right now, and adding the seizures to the mix makes things doubly upsetting!

Lori is right. My non-Cush Labrador retriever started having grand mal seizures four years ago. She was six years old at the time, and we were unable to identify a cause through any of her labwork. Due to the expense, we have never had imaging done of her head (CT or MRI). We are aware that given her age at the time the seizures started, a brain tumor has always remained a possible cause. However, we have been very, very lucky in that she has been totally seizure-free ever since starting phenobarbital. She has really been a poster child for the drug. As is typical of most dogs at the beginning of treatment, she experienced sedating effects (was dopey and stumbly for the first couple of weeks), and also experienced temporarily increased thirst and urination. However, all those ill effects soon dropped out for her.

We started treating after about 4-6 seizures. This was because they were all grand mals and kept increasing in frequency. I think there was a month between the first and second. And then two weeks, then a week, then a couple of days. We were alarmed by the way they were increasing (and they were so horrible to watch :(). But as I say, we are so lucky that she has done so well, and we have not yet seen any additional signs of a brain tumor.

I know your situation is somewhat different because of the possibility that Gabriel has an enlarging pituitary tumor that is causing both his Cushing's symptoms and also the seizures. Unfortunately, phenobarb does mimic some of the same symptoms of Cushing's, too, when you first start the drug. Also, due to how it acts on the liver, it may end up somewhat affecting the way the Vetoryl is metabolized. So it may not be the best drug to give Gabriel in the long run. However, your vet may opt to start him off with it just to get the seizures under control. There are several newer anti-seizure drugs that members here have used successfully, too. I am hoping some of them may soon stop by, as well.

You are doing a terrific job of caring for Gabriel under very tough circumstances. Please continue to let us know what your vet recommends.

Marianne

[Gabriel]

I received your note and quickly came over to take a look at your thread. I am so sorry that your boy is having such a rough time right now, and adding the seizures to the mix makes things doubly upsetting!

Lori is right. My non-Cush Labrador retriever started having grand mal seizures four years ago. She was six years old at the time, and we were unable to identify a cause through any of her labwork. Due to the expense, we have never had imaging done of her head (CT or MRI). We are aware that given her age at the time the seizures started, a brain tumor has always remained a possible cause. However, we have been very, very lucky in that she has been totally seizure-free ever since starting phenobarbital. She has really been a poster child for the drug. As is typical of most dogs at the beginning of treatment, she experienced sedating effects (was dopey and stumbly for the first couple of weeks), and also experienced temporarily increased thirst and urination. However, all those ill effects soon dropped out for her.

We started treating after about 4-6 seizures. This was because they were all grand mals and kept increasing in frequency. I think there was a month between the first and second. And then two weeks, then a week, then a couple of days. We were alarmed by the way they were increasing (and they were so horrible to watch :(). But as I say, we are so lucky that she has done so well, and we have not yet seen any additional signs of a brain tumor.

I know your situation is somewhat different because of the possibility that Gabriel has an enlarging pituitary tumor that is causing both his Cushing's symptoms and also the seizures. Unfortunately, phenobarb does mimic some of the same symptoms of Cushing's, too, when you first start the drug. Also, due to how it acts on the liver, it may end up somewhat affecting the way the Vetoryl is metabolized. So it may not be the best drug to give Gabriel in the long run. However, your vet may opt to start him off with it just to get the seizures under control. There are several newer anti-seizure drugs that members here have used successfully, too. I am hoping some of them may soon stop by, as well.

You are doing a terrific job of caring for Gabriel under very tough circumstances. Please continue to let us know what your vet recommends.

Marianne

Thanks so much Marianne. I'm so glad that your dog isn't having seizures anymore.

I was worried about the anti-seizure drugs but you've put my mind at rest. Hopefully the vet can find a suitable drug and will give Gabriel regular check ups to keep an eye on any side effects.

I know my dog got ill at an old age but I had an Addissons puppy before him so I know that you guys have been through an awful lot with your dogs and I am so grateful that you can spend the time on here to help others out :)

[molly muffin]

How is Gabriel doing? Did you go back to the vet? How is his tummy and face doing?

I don't think that there is any way to predict how long exactly one might have with any dog, unfortunately, as so many things are dependent on other things. Like the multiple complications, can they be taken care of, so that he remains with a good quality of life. I do think that is what it always comes down to, quality of life.

[Gabriel]

How is Gabriel doing? Did you go back to the vet? How is his tummy and face doing?

I don't think that there is any way to predict how long exactly one might have with any dog, unfortunately, as so many things are dependent on other things. Like the multiple complications, can they be taken care of, so that he remains with a good quality of life. I do think that is what it always comes down to, quality of life.

Thanks for asking his belly and face are cleared now. His belly now looks different to what it was before.
Now it is paler, rounder, plumpier, with small dark spots - as I'd expect a Cushings dog to look. He has lost a lot of hair around his underneath area although I cut a lot of it back to keep him cool.


I spoke to the vet today - he was really helpful - because its such a low dose of Vetoryl they will check him up in three weeks time as he seems to be ok on it.

As for the fits - if they get closer together he will probably be put on meds - for now the vet is giving me something to put in his rectum if the fit goes on longer than 5 mins or more - as I was concerned if he gets a constant fit what to do.
The vet said he wants to speak with his colleagues to decide what to do about his fits.

And I asked him how long he has got and like you he said it's hard to predict all we can do is make him comfortable for as long as possible.

From what I've read - it would seem that dogs let you know when they've had enough - they will stop eating.

And so that would be my marker.

We took him to the beach last night and he joined in trying to run to and from the waves with the kids - it was a walk and a hobble for him - and the waves caught his paws - but you could see he enjoyed playing with the kids as best he could - with the Belgian Shepherd they have a smile that tells you when they are happy.
After 10 mins he let us know he was ready to go home and sleep but he has life in him yet lol :)

How is yours doing?

[Gabriel]

Now that the rash has subsided I can see that he has dark spots on pale pink skin which is more pot bellied and it is very dry and looks very old and wrinkly like an elephant .

I also noticed that he has no hair on the insides of his back legs or sides of his belly now.

Before the rash and Vetoryl he had hair, clear skin and less of a pot- it came on very suddenly - is this normal for Cushings or did the Vetoryl speed things up or cause it?

The benefits outweigh the symptoms either way so I wouldn't want to stop it as he isn't panting or excessively drinking or having accidents in the house, he still sleeps a lot but when he is awake he acts like he has more strength in his legs.

Now that I can touch his bald skin is there any creams, lotions or natural oils that you guys put on the elephant type flaky skin that might help or is it best left alone ? ;) Thanks.

[molly muffin]

Skin and hair are one of those things that have to go through their cycles. Often we do see improvements but they take time, sometimes many months at good cortisol levels, then things get better. I would just keep his skin clean and dry. You can get a trichlor spray that is anitibiotic type for any areas that look to be like they could get infected. It will take time. Remember he just came through a very bad skin problem.

[Gabriel]

Skin and hair are one of those things that have to go through their cycles. Often we do see improvements but they take time, sometimes many months at good cortisol levels, then things get better. I would just keep his skin clean and dry. You can get a trichlor spray that is anitibiotic type for any areas that look to be like they could get infected. It will take time. Remember he just came through a very bad skin problem.

Thanks - yes it is flaring back up again he's itchy - so will wash and dry it but that's all I will put on it for now.

No more fits so far - and he wagged his tail today after venturing upstairs so his legs are definitely getting stronger.


Vetoryl does work but he is getting and on and off upset tummy with it. I'll mention it to the vet on the next visit but I doubt they can lower the dose anymore than what it is.

[Gabriel]

Update: Gabriel is seeing the vet tomorrow for tests to see how his Cushings is going.
He seems stronger now so I told them that if he needs to be sedated I'd rather that than one of them get bitten trying to put a muzzle on his itchy nose (he doesn't like me touching it) .

The vet gave me Isaderm for his itchy flaky skin to heal now that he is letting me touch it.
And Canker pro for his on/off runny stools to make them firmer.

Anyone used these products?

I was washing his belly with a flannel then using coconut oil on his dry skin and it relieved his itching - but noticed that where the undercoat is coming away in chunks due to hair loss it was bleeding a bit - either from him biting or just as it is sore.
So I will probably use the cream for that. Will read it and see if its ok for sore areas first.

Since he's been on vetoryl his legs are stronger, but he still sleeps loads, is ravenous, has hair loss, runny stools are new with the vetoryl - and the seizures are about a week or two apart.

The vet wants to know if I want to start him on seizure treatment as well but I'm not sure - he's already incontinent around the house - if it makes it worse his quality of life may decrease?

After a seizure he will be wobbly for a few days - he went to scratch himself and did a rolly poly - he didn't hurt himself it just looked funny seeing him roll over suddenly then land back on his feet.

Also I trimmed his hair back where it is coming away and it now looks like he's been shaved diagonally up his side - I'm sure people think I did that on purpose lol
It does look strange as he is a long haired dog.

Well if you don't laugh you cry :D :eek:

Also - the insurance company won't pay out for the seizure medication as they see that as a separate issue.

Money is not the first thing on my mind - but I'm fighting for my kids in court at the moment so it is a concern if I start treatment.

Any advice appreciated. :) Hope your dogs are happy today :)

[molly muffin]

I'm not familiar with those products you mentioned but Isaderm does sound like it would be for skin. Canker pro I don't know, but I don't like runny stool when on vetroyl as it can be a sign of cortisol going low. So we definitely want to see the test results for the cortisol.

If the seizure medication is a separate issue why wouldn't the insurance cover it? That seems strange.

Yep, if you don't laugh you cry, so might has well have a chuckle when ever you can.

[Gabriel]

I'm not familiar with those products you mentioned but Isaderm does sound like it would be for skin. Canker pro I don't know, but I don't like runny stool when on vetroyl as it can be a sign of cortisol going low. So we definitely want to see the test results for the cortisol.

If the seizure medication is a separate issue why wouldn't the insurance cover it? That seems strange.

Yep, if you don't laugh you cry, so might has well have a chuckle when ever you can.

Thanks. I'll ask for a printout of the results this time.

I have to wait until next week - he refused to go to the vets.
He wouldn't let me put his collar and lead on - he gets like that before a fit
where he doesn't like anyone to touch his head
and sure enough he had one that night.

Luckily the vets were understanding.

[Gabriel]

Went to the vets today.
His results were stable, much better they said cortisone levels were between 200 and 250.
They upped his Vetoryl to 60mg plus 10mg - I have to ring and check on this in the morning as it has two different boxes with different instructions on the amount to take.
I assume its now 70mg not 60mg.
They also started him on anti-seizure meds as he is having one every week now.

He doesn't like being away from me and having bloods tested (I told them its probably better to sedate him but they were worried about doing that and instead they tried to muzzle him but he wouldn't close his mouth they told me as he was being clever - so they tied his nose shut to try to get the muzzle on and now he has a welt on his nose where he was fighting against it)

...they asked me to rethink about waiting for him to stop eating as the end...because they think his quality of life is poor enough now to warrant being put down.

He is incontinent, wobbly, not wagging his tail - the anti-seizure meds may take a month to kick in - might stop his wobbliness - but he is saying 'ouch, ouch' at me - I know this really does mean 'ouch'
because he's done this since a puppy only when in pain - he's a tough cookie.
He's not saying 'ouch' all the time just some days on and off and he directs me to his head.

So basically I have three weeks before his next tests and don't want to put him through all that again.
They would have put him down today if I'd asked but I took him home.
He can walk, go on short walks - sometimes give a tail wag - that could be lack of happiness or lack of mobility I don't know -its on and off happiness with him.

The anti seizure drugs will make him more sleepy and more incontinent -so not sure how he will feel about that.

It's hard to make a decision like this when a dog is physically normal looking - but mentally probably very confused and scared.

Any suggestions on how I know when the end time is right for a dog when its mentally distressed rather than physically giving up on food ?

[molly muffin]

Oh poor Gabriel and poor you. What a tough spot to be in.

Sometimes they say, the dog will tell you when it is time. I don't know if that is true or not, I think you have to judge their quality of life and how comfortable they are in it and then make a recommendation. Never let them suffer is my general rule of thumb.

It is though a personal decision that you have to judge how Gabriel seems. Only you are there to truly know and only you truly know him.

I know that is not very helpful. The most we can really do is to support you no matter what your decision might be or when.

Big Hugs, this is a tough one

[Gabriel]

Oh poor Gabriel and poor you. What a tough spot to be in.

Sometimes they say, the dog will tell you when it is time. I don't know if that is true or not, I think you have to judge their quality of life and how comfortable they are in it and then make a recommendation. Never let them suffer is my general rule of thumb.

It is though a personal decision that you have to judge how Gabriel seems. Only you are there to truly know and only you truly know him.

I know that is not very helpful. The most we can really do is to support you no matter what your decision might be or when.

Big Hugs, this is a tough one

Thanks Molly Muffin xxx
It's hard to tell what he's feeling.
He seems depressed , is sleeping loads and has to be coaxed to get up at all- yet is eating and drinking normally and will reluctantly go for a walk and enjoy it when he is out - but want to come home and sleep after about 10 mins.

If I hold the end of his tail he will wag it so I think he is holding his tail tight to his body because he feels dirty - I wash him if he is dirty but perhaps because he can't control his motions he is worried about it.

The vet said that some dogs get very upset about dirtying in the house - I don't think he cares that much because we don't shout at him over it - I think he's more upset at his own body functions being uncontrollable.

But when we go out walking people say 'oh wow an alpha wolf', ' look at that bear' 'he's so cute and cuddly' etc...
No one even notices he's sick. His bald side is hidden by my legs.

I left my last dog suffer too long (addisons) - he tried to bury himself in the garden - that's how I knew. But his pain was more obvious.

As far as I can tell Gabriel is depressed but still enjoying tiny moments of life. So yes it feels wrong right now - I'm hoping the anti-seizure meds may make him less dizzy in his head maybe he'll want to enjoy life more then.

Belgian shepherds can smile - I don't know if all dogs can - can yours?
And if me or the kids sit with him and stroke his paw while he is sleeping he will smile.

Because I see a different vet every time I am getting conflicting information . The first vet seems to want to give him every drug and test available - the second seemed really empathic for the dog - the last one (a woman) wanted to know why the other two hadn't talked to me about putting him down...:roll eyes:

I have no issue looking after an old dog - the carpets, the money and being stuck in more - means nothing - I just want him to be happy and comfortable.

My ex hubby decided this was the best time to take me to court about the kids - in 2 weeks time. I can always count on him to kick me when I'm down - another reason why I have to be strong.

Thanks for the 'never let them suffer' I think I'll use that as my guide - if he starts saying 'ouch, ouch' again and it doesn't stop I'll know I can't help him.

The problem with Gabriel is he was the alpha of the pack - he hides his pain - he won't give up - he will fight right to the end probably way past when he should - that is my biggest fear - that he is silently suffering and not telling me.

I think I've known from the start that this was not going to be a long term illness - it was way too rapid - three months to go from normal to practically bedridden.

Playing God isn't nice :eek: I will search online and see if there is a quality of life checklist maybe that will help.

Death is only the beginning - and I know they go on -I just don't want to kill anything - yet alone my baby puppy - I'm a vegetarian and wanted to be a vet until I was asked to disect a rat - I rallied the class into a protest lol as it was pointless to do the same experiment over and over with the same result and kill healthy animals.
I got my grade but the teacher told me I'd never be a vet if I couldn't kill animals.
At the time I was mortified as I wanted to save animals not kill them.
But yep she was right - I get it now - sometimes saving animals from pain means having to kill them.
- years ago I got my ex to sign our last dog's death warrant as I didn't want the karma.

I guess karma gets you eventually - and I have to do whats best for Gabriel not me. I get it. I admire all of you who have done what's best for your dogs and put them down to ease their suffering - I really do -I hope that I can be as kind and strong and a good mum as you guys have been at the right time - thanks for the support :)

[mytil]

Your Gabriel is such a trooper and so are you! I too am hoping the seizure meds will start to kick in very soon.

This is really a tough question and no one wants to face truly. As Lori mentioned the quality of life is the most important thing and you know your Gabriel the best.

Keep us posted
((((hugs))))
Terry

[flynnandian]

i am sorry to hear that gabriel isn't doing well. their quality of life should be our number one issue.

"'I left my last dog suffer too long (addisons) - he tried to bury himself in the garden - that's how I knew. But his pain was more obvious."'

just remember this and don't let gabriel suffer.

it is hard to make the decision to put them down, we all know that, but i am glad that we can help our dogs die peacefully.

esp. tough working dogs like belgian sheperds do hide their pain and discomfort. my 3 ones were the same.

[molly muffin]

Yes Molly smiles, it is very cute. You can tell she is happy when she is smiling. Some dogs just do that it seems.

There are several quality of life surveys, here is one:

http://www.allpetsmacomb.com/qualityoflife.html

Things are such a muddle right now with all that is going on. I can't even imagine how very strong you have to be with Gabriel and the situation with the ex.

Big hugs!

[Gabriel]

Yes Molly smiles, it is very cute. You can tell she is happy when she is smiling. Some dogs just do that it seems.

There are several quality of life surveys, here is one:

http://www.allpetsmacomb.com/qualityoflife.html

Things are such a muddle right now with all that is going on. I can't even imagine how very strong you have to be with Gabriel and the situation with the ex.

Big hugs!

Thanks for the support molly muffin, flynnandian and mytil :)

I will look at those links. Oh I'm glad your dog smiles too :)

A few hours after the first anti-seizure tablet he had another seizure - 5 days after the last one - he hasn't had one since though so fingers crossed.

He is definitely urinating more ( in the wrong places lol ) more hungry and
and more wobbly and sleepy - that might go away after the first week I was told but the extra urination probably won't.
If you think Cushings dogs are sleepy and hungry - see them on epilepsy tablets ha ha - he sticks his head in the fridge whenever I open the door, goes through the bins, tries to steal food off the kids plates as they are eating straight after a big meal - :eek:

I found something he still likes to wag his tail at - I had a parcel yesterday - he got up and barked at the postman and sniffed the package and wagged his tail - he used to try to steal packages and rip them up lol - so he is still excited at that - never thought I'd be encouraging that bad behaviour :D

It's sunny and kids are off next week so we will take him to the beach and a few places for picnics - if I can get him in the car :roll eyes:

I think he will let me know when the time is right.

Ok you guys are going to think I'm crazy now - but my last dog Merlin I could telepathically communicate with - I can't do it with this dog though - Merlin was more of a human dog Gabriel is a dog dog if you know what I mean.

When he passed he visited me a month later in a mist ( I know lol... it looked like a bad 80's pop video with too much dry ice) and licked my face and told me if I needed him he would come back - but he was going on somewhere else to learn more things so it was time for me to let him go.

My life is full of such strange happenings - like seeing an Angel at a near death experience so for me this is normal lol.

Well while Merlin was put to sleep I whispered sang "Baby Mine' from Dumbo to him. OK sorry this may make you cry....

"Baby mine, don't you cry.
Baby mine, dry your eyes.
Rest your head close to my heart,
Never to part, baby of mine...."

So I was thinking about if I should sing it to Gabriel when he passes yesterday
and switched the TV on and Dumbo was on tv.
Ok that's a coincidence (but I don't believe in coincidences)

So that evening I was in my bedroom singing "Baby Mine' to myself thinking again about how Merlin passed when...
the lightbulb fell out of its socket in the room next to me and landed
in the bedroom as if it was thrown.

So I'm thinking its a message that Merlin is ready when Gabriel is to welcome him....

Oh well that's what i'd like to think...lol....:)

Every birthday the kids have their toys go off on their own in their rooms and I say 'Oh Merlin's here to say happy birthday' - it creeped the kids out so they removed the batteries ha ha - but maybe he's found another way to communicate through electrical items ? :roll eyes:

Ok I'm crazy but I'm over 40, single and from the UK so I am allowed to be eccentric now :D

[molly muffin]

Well, who is to say what is crazy and what isn't. :) LOL

Never say never that is sure to come back and bite you on the *&^. :) :)

I'm sure Gabriel will love getting out to the beach with the kids.

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh no, you're not crazy at all....or if you are, then so am I! :D I know exactly what you mean about being able to communicate with your baby - Squirt and I talked all the time, and still do. I would see her several times a day at first but as time has passed I see her less and less. I think that is because she knows I am healing and need to see her less now. But we still talk. This constant communication with her is the reason I feel no compulsion to write a memorial to her - we memorialize our love daily, she and I together like usual. When I am facing something that makes me nervous, or when I am going to do something or go somewhere I know she would enjoy, she is with me. What I don't understand is why I can't communicate with my daughter in the same way. :confused::( So no, you are not crazy...and I live in the US where this sort of thing is usually poohpoohed! :D

[Gabriel]

Oh no, you're not crazy at all....or if you are, then so am I! :D I know exactly what you mean about being able to communicate with your baby - Squirt and I talked all the time, and still do. I would see her several times a day at first but as time has passed I see her less and less. I think that is because she knows I am healing and need to see her less now. But we still talk. This constant communication with her is the reason I feel no compulsion to write a memorial to her - we memorialize our love daily, she and I together like usual. When I am facing something that makes me nervous, or when I am going to do something or go somewhere I know she would enjoy, she is with me. What I don't understand is why I can't communicate with my daughter in the same way. :confused::( So no, you are not crazy...and I live in the US where this sort of thing is usually poohpoohed! :D

Oh thanks both :)

[flynnandian]

how is gabriel doing today? i hope he is feeling better.

[Gabriel]

Gabriel died yesterday.
I had him put to sleep.
Hard day. Its going to take a long time to recover from.

It may have been earlier than I should have I don't know - all I know is that the dog before me was no longer the real Gabriel.
And what lay ahead was more pain for him.
Gabriel was never cuddly, he loved cuddles but on his terms - he'd cuddle then walk off. Or jump on my bed and cuddle for 5 mins then jump down.
This sick dog was clingy and cuddled out of fear, this dog was in pain and trying to hide it from me - and as much as I loved all the gorgeous cuddles I had to let him go - because - he had been sick only three months and fought past an ear infection, bad skin allergy, seizures and cushings - but was still so so sick, had headaches from the brain tumour and no tail wags or playfulness left in him. Just a scared anxious incontinent pacing dog with bad diarrhoea.
One that I loved so much for 11 years - and would have let him carry on fighting if I thought we could keep him happy and pain free.

We took him for a picnic the day before, he managed to get in the car through the back seats - we gave him a picnic plate of his favourite foods. He vomited it back up which often happened if he ate too quick. He then lay down and me and the kids massaged him as he showed his bald side to everyone without a care ;)
He would normally have smiled and wagged his tail but he didn't. Still, we could tell he felt loved and he sadly watched little children play with a ball intently as if he was longing to be able to once again run over there and steal the ball like he used to with our kids.
Then he sat up and pooped diarrhoea and we managed to move the picnic rug in time.
To finish the day we let him off the lead to take us for a walk, we let him lead - for once he looked like he was enjoying himself - because he was pack leader once again - I think he felt himself again - that was when I realised how much his loss of independence as an alpha dog was hitting him hard - we walked real slow behind him - and at one point he even gathered the children at the back like a shepherd does.
He took us on a path we'd never been on before and found a bluebell field. He stopped to sniff the bluebells, fell over a lot, stuck his head in a lot of ferns but no longer left his scent to mark the way.
After 10 mins he turned around and took us back to the car.

So the next day the kids said goodbye and I took him to the vets.
I was 10 mins late but they made me wait 45 mins and it was awful. Everyone was commenting on how beautiful he was - they wanted to stroke him but he growled at anyone trying to touch his head as it probably hurt.
People asked me what was wrong with him but I didn't tell them why I was there.
As I sat and watched dogs of all sorts come and go I noticed one thing - they all had in common - no matter how bad the injury or how loud they cried - their tails wagged. I started wondering maybe Gabriel has had a mini stroke after a fit and can't wag his tail or smile anymore - maybe he is happy inside - but then I'd seen him lift his tail - and he ate ok. I was looking for excuses again.
You sit there long enough and you start looking at the door thinking about bolting for it.

Hopefully none of you will have to do this - I pray that all yours will pass naturally peacefully - but if you find yourself in this situation maybe you can learn from what I went through.
So first - make sure that you don't have to wait.

Secondly - I took his favourite toy although he didn't want it anymore - and his blanket - I should have brought a spare blanket because once the sedative started working he pooped on it dioareah - the vet asked me if I wanted it back - no thanks :eek:
So he was then unfortunately resigned to lying on the small square
of bedding the vet gave under his head only. I was trying to avoid the cold hard floor scenario but then again that's exactly what he has chosen to lie on these last three months as most of you with Cushings dogs will know.

I decided against a home death because of the kids and because he is a heavy dog to move. The last vets seemed to make it less clinical - I should have thought more about this I guess - still he was with me and that's all he cared about - he didn't mind the vets as long as I never left him there.

Third thing - I got this bit right - always ask for sedation first. Why would anyone want a dog to be awake through the lethal injection?
It took two shots in his butt and he still refused to lay down - he yawned, but stood there staring at the eyes of the vet - as if to say - no way am I sleeping and leaving you alone with my mummy.
He had to get a stronger sedative to make him fall asleep.
And once he fell onto me and slept it all went peacefully.

Before his body stopped breathing I said 'oh he's gone' and the vet looked at me and said ' how did you know?' his brain had gone but his body was still alive - but I felt him leave it - he half left after the sedative, fully left it after the injection - and I felt that he was no longer in that body. It went smoothly he just went to sleep.

I pray none of you will have to go through that - but sedatives are what make the difference. I can't believe if I hadn't asked they weren't going to use them - he would have been on a drip or something - and muzzled - he'd have hated that.

And yes he has given me signs that he has passed on to a better place - he came to me and said (I can hear what he was saying through feelings its a weird thing - I couldn't do when he was alive but this is how I was with the dog before him) - ' see how strong I am now, I could have taken more pain mummy, I am a strong dog, I didn't want to leave you I would have taken more pain but I know you didn't like me in pain' and he was jumping about and so happy.
He told me where he'd hidden two cuddly toys and to give them to the children - they are carrying them around when they feel sad and miss him now.

And I know my dog is back to the way he was because I said what cuddly toy do you have for me? and he said (well gave me the feeling - its a psychic thing lol)
' you were supposed to have my blanket mummy' and I know he said that as a joke because he had pooped on it. He was laughing at me and said ' you'll find something'.
Later that day I moved a cushion and a small dog shaped toy was there and I thought 'oh, you gave me something after all' :D

Doesn't stop me crying though because I miss him being here.

Thanks for all your support. Battle as long as your dog wants you to but don't let them suffer (even if they think they can take it :) )

My ex husband had a go at me for not inviting him to the euthanasia - and then had a go at our son for not ringing him - I rang him 3 mins after and all he did was shout at me.
Which is why I am glad he wasn't there. Just as he was never there for him during his life.

Not what you want to hear before you drive home.
If you can find someone else to drive you home - thats a better idea.

Anyway - I will pop in to offer my support - I was feeling guilty and sick about what I'd done and said 'Oh my god what have I done? '
I turned the tv on and the first thing I heard was a debate show someone said we treat animals better than humans because we give them euthanasia rather than prolong their suffering when their quality of life is diminished.
I don't believe in coincidences - I am being given help to get through this from those furry creatures above - you just have to look out for it :)

[labblab]

I have taken the liberty of changing your thread title to one that seems fitting to honor Gabriel's life and also his passing. But of course Gabriel is your own dear, special boy and so please just tell me what new title you might wish to have placed here instead, and the change will be made immediately.

I wrote about Gabriel's bravery, but I wish to speak of your bravery as well. There can be no trip harder than the trip you took yesterday. Driving in to the clinic with your dog beside you, and leaving with only a collar or leash. You did the right thing for Gabriel, but at such a cost to your own heart.

Thank you so much for sharing him with us, both in life and also now in his passing. You and he are part of our family here, and always shall remain so.

Sending my warmest thoughts of comfort across the miles,
Marianne

[mytil]

My heart and (((hugs))) are with you! I also had to make this decision and my heart was utterly completely crushed.....but my mind said, you did the most unselfish, bravest and necessary action to let your friend go with dignity and ease her pain. AND you did the same for Gabriel - you were there for him throughout his life up to the end.

Know we are all here for you.
Terry

[molly muffin]

Oh god, I'm so sorry that the end came as it always does, much too soon. Are we ever really ready? I don't know I think our heads say yes we know but our hearts say no please no, not yet.

I know Gabriel is strong now and happy and watching over you and the kids. He is doing what he is meant to do, what he loved to do. That doesn't make it easier, but it is real for you and for the kids.

My sincere condolences.

hugs

[Budsters Mom]

Fly free Gabriel! Soar to meet the others! They have gathered to welcome you and will care for you now.

[judymaggie]

My condolences to you and your family--he definitely had many of our loved ones, including my Maggie, eagerly welcoming him.

[Bonnie0420]

I'm so sorry about Gabriel,

I'm so sorry that you had to endure what you did and had to wait, I can't even imagine how horrible that must have been for you.

I commend you in doing what was best for Gabriel, it's such a hard decision and you do second guess everything. Our experience was a little different but I know I have questioned myself over and over and at times have even blamed myself for some of the things that happened but I do know we did everything possible as you did as well.

Be good to yourself, and know everyone is here for you
Blessings for peace and comfort

Bonnie

[Squirt's Mom]

What a beautiful story for a beautiful Soul. I have no doubts whatsoever your precious boy was talking to you and showing you what you needed to see to help you start the healing process. When my Tasha Crossed she too felt so very good, was in fact surprised to realize how debilitated she had actually become in this life. That fact helped me cope over the following few weeks, it helped me know I had made the right decision for her. Just as you have for your sweet Gabriel. You gave him the greatest gift of all - freedom from a failing vessel.

We will see our babies again, we will hold our babies again, we will cover their faces with kisses again, and once again we will walk side by side with them. One day, sweetheart, one day.....

I am so sorry your ex had to live up to his apparent true nature on such a terrible day for you and your kids. :(

Our thoughts and prayers are with you all in deepest sympathy,
Leslie, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Fox, Redd, and all our Angels at the Bridge



A Special Gift

They're a very special gift, to be cherished and loved;
You're chosen for each other by God Himself above.
It's a match made in heaven so it can't be wrong;
You're tied together by a bond that's oh so strong.

All they'll ever ask from you is to be loved and fed,
And at night make sure they have fresh water and a bed.
In return, for so little, the rewards are so great!
You'll get a companion for life with some very special traits.

When you are lost and the end seems so far away
They'll walk by your side, they'll help you find your way.
When life gets you down they can put a smile on your face
As they run you in circles with their fast pace.

You'll share the good with the bad, you'll be happy and sad;
And through it all you have a friend, the best you ever had.
You're time together will be special and unique;
It will be as priceless to you as a rare antique.

Then, before you know it, the day will arrive
When suddenly your life takes a steep dive.
The furry friend who's been with you for all of these years
Has now passed on and left you in tears.

As you sit and wonder what did I do?
Why is this all happening to you?
Into each of our lives a little rain must fall,
And you must be strong to answer the call.

Your little one's spirit has flown home on the wings of a dove,
To a special place that awaits them in heaven above.
St. Francis will meet them; when they get home
He will take them to a meadow where they're free to roam.

There in the meadows, down by the pond,
Your furry friend will remember his loving bond.
He'll look into the water, then you appear;
He can see you're frightened, he can feel your fear.

Through the bond that still ties you from heaven above
He looks down upon you, he sends you his love.
Because you loved him and because you care
Whenever you need him, he'll always be there.

There, in the meadows, they patiently wait for the day
When you will celebrate your life together, each and every day.
Waiting for that day; when you come walking back home
When together for an eternity through the meadows you'll roam.

Author Unknown

[flynnandian]

i am sorry that you had to let gabriel go, but you did it all in his best interest and that is the only thing that counts. no more suffering for him.
hugs from us!

[Gabriel]

Thank you so much for all your kind words :)
It has helped so much - every message

Thanks for being there for us this forum was such a wonderful gift to know that you are not alone and that others are going through the same thing - all your advice was so so valuable in helping him through his last months

I will scatter Gabriel at his favourite park so that when we move house we can still visit - although he is in Heaven so always with us :)

I still open the door in the morning and night to let him out - that's a habit that I find hard to break :D

We all go through the blaming ourselves stage - wondering did I take him on enough walks, feed him the right food, give him the right meds, leave him alone too long, end his life too soon or too late etc...

But all that matters is that our dogs all feel loved by us. And I know he did. And anyone that is on this forum truly loves their dog because you are on here trying to work out what is best to make them feel comfortable and happy :)

So love your dogs and don't worry about the rest.....that's all they need :)

Thankyou for the title it is very fitting for him.

Hugs to all your dogs xx

[molly muffin]

Sending big hugs!

We all second guess our decisions, even when we know we have made the right one. It's human nature I guess.

[Gabriel]

Thanks :)
I'm wearing his dog tag on a necklace chain - it helps me get through this.
Although around the house he never wore a collar.

I was ok today until i opened the fridge and saw the bowl of dog biscuits I'd made him. Then I cried ( maybe howled).
He would watch me make them and sit by the oven until they were cooked and try to steal one before they had cooled :D I know you guys have the same problem with your Cushings dogs - they are ravenous all the time lol.

I told him today to say hello to all your dogs that have passed over :)

[doxiesrock912]

Gabriel will be overwhelmed by cushpups on the other side of the rainbow bridge.
We each get through in our own way. Hugs

[SuperCupcake64]

I am so sorry about Gabriel. He was lucky to have you, as you were lucky to have him. He will always be in your heart.

Jen, Sammy, and Maizie

[Gabriel]

Thanks. Yes I keep seeing visions of him with lots of dogs running with him - think we'll be swamped with loads of doggies when we pass over ourselves ;)

Visited my mother today and her little dog was looking for Gabriel - then sniffed us - and I think he figured out that he is gone because we no longer smell of him. He looked sad. But this made me smile..
I asked him where each family member was and he looked at each of us and we laughed - then someone asked him where is Gabriel and he looked up at the sky - wow ! :)

[pansywags]

I wore Pansy's tag on a chain around my neck for about a month and a half. What a sweet moment with your mom's dog!

[Gabriel]

I wore Pansy's tag on a chain around my neck for about a month and a half. What a sweet moment with your mom's dog!

Pansy looks so cute!

My daughter wears a locket with a photo of Gabriel around her neck.

She's through to young singer of the year finals at our local Eisteddfod and has chosen to sing 'wishing you were somehow here again'
from Phantom of the Opera - as a tribute to all the dogs from this site that have passed over and are now together.

She's singing at 7pm 14th June - so we will be thinking of you all then.

Makes me cry every time she sings it - but its her way of getting over him.

Doesn't matter if she wins or not - she just sings to get her emotions out.

When she was a baby Gabriel was a puppy. I put him out the back while the midwife visited and looked at the baby.
When the midwife had gone I let him back in the house - he sniffed the moses basket and saw that the baby was no longer in it - he sniffed where the midwife had been and followed her scent to the front door then sat and howled and howled the most dramatic, heart wrenching deep howl ever...
then I showed Gabriel that I had the baby in my arms - and he was so excited and happy - that is why they are so close. He has always been her protector.

My last dog Merlin was like that with my son - except the pair of them were chilled out - he used to sleep twirling his little hands through Merlin's hair and that dog wouldn't get up for anything lol.

Funny how their personalities matched each other :D

[Harley PoMMom]

She's through to young singer of the year finals at our local Eisteddfod and has chosen to sing 'wishing you were somehow here again'
from Phantom of the Opera - as a tribute to all the dogs from this site that have passed over and are now together.

She's singing at 7pm 14th June - so we will be thinking of you all then.



What a beautiful way to honor all our pups that have crossed over, that is so very thoughtful of your daughter. We will be wishing her the best with her finals!

Hugs, Lori

[mytil]

Oh that is so lovely - your daughter singing this song for all of our pups - brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. I think somehow there should be a video of this and posted on site.... ;) (hint, hint).

My continued ((((hugs))))
Terry

[molly muffin]

That is truly beautiful.

We will be thinking of her too while she sings.

What a wonderful tribute. I am sure she is hurting, and missing her best buddy.

hugs

[Gabriel]

Oh that is so lovely - your daughter singing this song for all of our pups - brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. I think somehow there should be a video of this and posted on site.... ;) (hint, hint).

My continued ((((hugs))))
Terry

Thanks all.

She isn't on the net yet because of safety - but I'm sure I could post a private you tube link only to members or something like that ;)

[Gabriel]

My 10 year old daughter will sing tomorrow night for all our passed dogs that are on this forum - we will be thinking of you all. If all goes well I'll be able tape it and upload it to youtube for us ;)

Gabriel's ashes are home with me - I notice that most spirits tend to say goodbye after a month and move onward and upward to new adventures - so I'm not ready to scatter his ashes quite yet as I know he's still hanging around.

One day I forget the pain then I went onto my favourites list for online food shopping at tesco's and all his favourite dog food, toys and toilet pads comes up - ouch :eek:

Its waves- and yes they are getting smaller now - but tomorrow night will be a weepy - when she sings the last line 'help me say goodbye' - we can all relate to that I'm sure :)

Hope all your dogs are feeling better today and all the people who have lost a dog to this disease are also feeling better - we must remember to look after ourselves as well as our dogs ;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Please tell your daughter how very special this is for all of us who have lost our babies and who feel that emptiness every second of every day. Bless you both.

[labblab]

That is so incredibly sweet that your daughter is singing for us all. Regardless of whether or not we are able to hear her with our ears, we will surely hear her in our hearts. :o

Marianne

[doxiesrock912]

I've lived with so many different animals throughout my lifetime that I will have a zoo when it's my time. :-)

[Gabriel]

She sang beautifully in the finals - there was only one winner and she was 4 years older than my daughter and much more experienced - already doing theatre and opera work.

But she enjoyed being on stage - and they announced she was singing for our dogs too which was nice - a lot of people were crying while she sang - they didn't allow cameras though unfortunately in case it put the contestants off. I'll have to tape her at home myself.

But thanks again for the support - I think its helped my kids knowing there are many dogs greeting each other up there - the kids have had a look at all the forum photos of your cute little ones :)

[mytil]

That is wonderful - thanks for letting us know how she did. Of course to me, she is the winner here :) and my little Mytilda I am sure heard her.

Please give her a very big thank you ((((hug)))) from me.
Terry

[molly muffin]

That is just beautiful. People can relate to her and why she was singing obviously.

I'm sure Gabriel is running around with new pals now.

[Gabriel]

Thanks Molly Muffin and Mytil:)