Advice pls on very old dog (Mutley has passed)

[Mutley's mum]

Hi, I've been reading stuff on here for some time. My little dog Mutley is 15 is a Lakeland x and I've had him since he was 8 wks old. He started losing hair on his tail 18 months ago and the vet diagnosed him with an under active thyroid and put him in tablets which made him worse, panting on a night drinking loads and urinating in the house. I took him off the tablets and mentioned cushings as his liver enzymes were slightly raised he tested 'borderline' cushings with an ACTH test. This was last year. As I had heard the treatment was quite invasive meds I decided not to treat as his symptoms were not bad and he seemed happy enough and better off the thyroid meds. I later had his liver checked and no raised liver enzymes.

Since late last year his appetite has grown, he is deaf and eyesight is diminished, he sleeps a lot more through the day but becomes restless on a night circling a LOT and panting, more hair loss and despite his appetite and eating well he's list weight . I've just had a full panel if bloods done and everything including liver function is within normal limits and vet has suggested against vetoryl at his age 15 and his liver enzymes not being raised?? that it is cognitive dysfunction and has prescribed Aktivait, omega 3 and vivitonin. No diff as yet.

He is not in pain and still likes cuddles, but is unresponsive to me coming home etc etc. any advice us greatly appreciated. I know at some point I will have to make a decision, but I don't think we are quite at that stage yet.

Mutley's mum

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Mutley,

Was Mutley's thyroid levels checked after the thyroid supplementation was started? If not, it could be that the medication for the low thyroid could of been too much which will cause Hyperthyroidism.

With Hyperthyroidism elevated liver enzymes, and increases in drinking/urinating are common symptoms, and are also seen in dogs with Cushing's.

Were there other anomalies listed on Mutley's blood panel, and if so, could you post them here? Could you post those ACTH stimulation results? Does Mutley have any other Cushing's symptoms such as a ravenous appetite, thin skin, pot-bellied appearance? Is Mutley taking any other herbs/supplements?/medications?

Once we know more about dear Mutley we can provide you with better feedback, ok?

Please know we are here to help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want.

Hugs, Lori

[Mutley's mum]

Hi Lori, thanks for the warm welcome.

Mutley did go hyper with the soloxine he was taking for his thyroid and that's when his liver enzymes were up. That medication was discontinued over a year ago.

There were no anomalies in his recent blood panel for his liver, heart, kidneys diabetes etc. I will have to request the ACTH results from my vet.

He does not have a pot belly, but has a ravenous appetite and despite that he has lost weight, he was 9.8kg before Xmas and now is 8.4kg. he has bilateral hair loss, darker skin, thinner hair, blackheads on tummy, drinks more water but not over excessive, he has muscle wastage to back legs and only potters about now. His worst symptom is the night time circling round to the right hand side and not settling. He sleeps most of the day.

I guess I really should have him retested now to see how his cushings is, but as he is deaf and partially blind, he only seems content with familiar surroundings so I hate the thought of him being at the vets all day for testing.

My vet has said to me that because his liver enzymes are not raised that he has advised against treating with vetoryl as he could get addisons. He has prescribed vivitonin and he takes omega 3 and Acktivait but nothing else and has never been on any other meds. Can cushings be advanced and not show up in the liver tests?

The other thing which makes me think his cortisol is raised is because up until 2 years ago he suffered from grass allergies and used to get ear infections - these have cleared by themselves - so is he self medicating?

So really what to do? Is he just a veteran with cognitive disfunction or is it advanced cushings? I also asked my vet about anipryl but he had not heard of it so I thought perhaps its not available in the UK, but I have found it is under the name Selgian. Has anybody tried this with success for either cushings or dementia?

Regards,

Jill

I have requested all test results from vet now and they are posting them out today.

[Squirt's Mom]

My Squirt developed doggy Alzheimer's and we used a product called Novifit. It is a stable SAMe product that requires no prescription. And it was nothing short of a miracle for Squirt! She was also given Anipryl for a short while but the Novifit was what did the trick for her. It has not helped every pup who used it but those is does, it works very, very well.

http://www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/novifit-novisame-tablets/behavioral-health

[Mutley's mum]

Hi Squirt's mom,

I have tried to find a UK supplier for this but I think I will have to send off to USA for it as it looks like we don't have it here!!:rolleyes:

[Squirt's Mom]

Check Amazon....I just saw something about "Novifit UK" but it says they are out of stock on the large size.

[Mutley's mum]

Hi, Squirt's mom, I found some on Ebay but in America - I have bought them ad they should be here by 24th Feb. So we will see if they help if the other stuff hasn't kicked in by then.

Mutley does seem a bit brighter and is holding his weight and last night was the first night that I havn't heard him pacing round and round.

Will post all test results once I have them.

Thanks, Jill

[Mutley's mum]

At last I have the blood panel results all of which my vet said were normal but on the print out they posted it looks like PLT is high, is this blood clotting platelets? Anyway here goes its a mile long:-

LaserCyte 24/01/15

RBC 7.31x10 12/L 5.50 - 8.50
HCT 49.5% 37.0 - 55.0
HGB 15.6g/dL 12.0 - 18.0
MCV 67.8fL 60.0 - 77.0
MCH 21.4 pg 18.5 - 30.0
MCHC 31.5 g/dL 30.0 - 37.5
RDW 15.5% 14.7 - 17.9
% RETIC 0.3%
RETIC 25.2K/uL 10.0 - 110.0
WBC 8.61x10 9/L 5.50 - 16.90
%NEU 68.6%
%LYM 14.9%
%MONO 14.0%
%EOS 2.4%
%BASO 0.1%
NEU 5.91 x 10 9/L 2.0 - 12.00
LYM 1.28 x 10 9/L 0.50 - 4.90
MONO 1.20 x 10 9/L 0.30 - 2.00
EOS 0.21 x 10 9/L 0.10 - 1.49
BASO 0.01 x 10 9/L 0.00 - 0.10
PLT 580 K/uL 175 - 500 HIGH
MPV 8.7fL
PDW 20.7%
PCT 0.50%


VEtTEST 25.01.15

GLU 5.29 mmol/L 3.89 - 7.94
UREA 6.7 mmol/L 2.5 - 9.6
CREA 54 umol/L 44 - 159
PHOS 1.23 mmol/L 0.81 - 2.19
CA 2.45 mmol/L 1.98 - 3.00
TP 59 g/L 52 - 82
ALB 28g/L 22 - 39
GLOB 30g/L 25 - 45
ALT 87U/L 10 - 100
ALKP 172U/L 23 - 212
TBIL <2 umol/L 0 - 15
CHOL 6.61 mmol/L 2.84 - 8.27
AMYL 558U/L 500 - 1500


VEtLyte 24.01.2015

NA 153mmol/L 144 - 160
K 4.8mmol/L 3.5 - 5.8
Cl 112mmol/L 109 - 122


Any help with these figures, as they do not mean a lot to me, I would appreciate.

I have not received the stim test results through as yet but I think they may be difficult to get hold of as they were done over a year ago and I am seriously thinking now of having him retested as his whole demeanor and symptoms point to cushings - despite 2 weeks on vivitonin, omega 3 and Activiate - he is still circling all the time and his back legs are getting weaker and weaker, ravenous appetite but difficulty keeping weight on and obviously the more I feed him the more he poos which means more accidents in the house. I have also had to raise his bowl off the floor for eating and drinking as he struggles to reach down without falling over now. I have a video of the circling to show you what I mean but I don't know how to post it on here. He does seem more settled at night though and not waking up as much as he did like before.

Kind regards,

Jill

[Squirt's Mom]

Honestly, that is not the typical looking blood work of a cush pup. ;) We expect to see the ALP very much elevated at the very least, often other liver values, CHOL, TRIG, and other indicators are present...and they just aren't for Mutley. Based on these labs, I wouldn't spend the money on nor put my pup thru the stress of the cush tests. ;) It may be that everything you are seeing is related to cognitive dysfunction and not a disease process like Cushing's.

[Mutley's mum]

Hi,

Thanks for the speedy response. Ok, well that's reassuring to know. He was only diagnosed 'borderline' cushings with his stim test over a year ago, its just that his symptoms have seemed to get worse and all fit with cushings syndrome.

I wonder why his platelet count could be high though - perhaps that's insignificant if the other values are normal. The novifit has arrived today that you recommeneded so I will start the little guy on that and see if it helps.

kind regards,

Jill

[Spencersmom]

Hi Jill! I know I'm coming here a little late, but wanted to tell you that we had a Min Pin that developed dementia when she was around 17 yrs old. She circled alot! She was blind, due to corneal melts and at first we thought she was having a hard time adjusting to sight loss. It became evident that was not the case.

Don't know if that is what you are dealing with, but the circling caught my eye. Do you have the ability to take your pup to a neurologist? They may be able to give you some answers, one way or another.

[Mutley's mum]

Hi Terry,

I'm grateful for any input. Mutley is also not great with his sight. His sleep wake cycle seems all out, sleeps all day wakes up and circles, always to the right. I do not know if we have specialists here for neurology, it is something I will have to look into.

The vet has told me pretty much that there's little we can do for him but make his life comfortable, he's an old man and as he's not in any pain just see how he goes. He also gets stuck in corners or behind furniture, still ravenous appetite but is starting to look all skin and bone. I started him on the novifit yesterday so fingers crossed that may help him.

What other symptoms did you notice with your min pin apart from the circling and what if any remedies did you try and ultimately what happened in the end, I hope you don't mind me asking that?

Kind regards, Jill

[Scout]

Hi Jill, I hope the Novifit helps Mutley!
In the last 18 months of her life, my dog Scout showed some signs which could've been the beginning of cognitive decline. Her response to my verbal cues/commands got to be very slow. It was almost as if she was deaf. But i think in actuality it was somehow a loss in her ability to mentally focus. And as you mentioned her response to my coming home was greatly reduced. It was hard to take because it seemed to sever some of the quality of the connection we had. I wouldve tried the Novifit if I had known about it, but I just had to try to be there for her even more. Good luck with it.
Lindsay

[Dixie'sMom]

Hi Jill. I was catching up on my reading and have just read Mutley's thread. He sounds like such a sweetie. I hope the Novafit helps him. I have an 11 y/o Doxie Beagle mix named Buttons and I'm afraid she may be beginning to show signs of some dementia also. I'll be interested in seeing how Mutley does on the Novafit.

[molly muffin]

Do let us know how the novofit works and if it helps Mutley or not.

[Mutley's mum]

Mutley has passed yesterday.

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry to read This news. :o

Mutley is now free of pain and has has been welcomed by many of our fur angels at the rainbow bridge. He has plenty of new friends to watch out for him now. Fly free sweet boy, fly free!

Hugs,
Kathy

[mytil]

Jill,
I am so very sorry. Your boy had a wonderful life and a great family! We will always remember him here.

((((hugs))))
Terry

[molly muffin]

I am so sorry to hear that Mutley has passed.

My sincerest condolences.

[judymaggie]

My sincere condolences to you and your family. May all your good memories of Mutley help you get through this difficult time.

[Squirt's Mom]

I am so sorry about your loss. It sounds like Mutley was well loved and cared for and I know he is grateful to you for all you did on his behalf.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie, Trinket, Brick, Sophie, Fox, Redd, and all our angels


THE EULOGY

Look not where I was
For I am not there
My spirit is free
I am everywhere

In the air that you breathe
In the sounds that you hear
Don't cry for me Mom
My spirit is near

I'll watch for you
From the other side
I'll be the one running
New friends by my side

Smile at my memory
Remember in your heart
This isn't the end
It's a brand new start

By: Carol Kufner

[doxiesrock912]

My condolences on your loss of Mutley. Hugs