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MrsJune
01-25-2015, 03:05 PM
Hi Everyone,

My 10.5 year old dachshund was diagnosed a little over 2 years ago with Pituitary Canine Cushings and has been on 5mg of Trilostane BID during that time. I purchase his medication through a compound pharmacy. He has been well controlled since we began treatment.

He has another issue such as every now and then he injures his neck either by climbing a step or chewing too aggressively on a toy. This has happened maybe 1-2 times a year for the past few years. His vet prescribed pain killers, NSAIDs, and muscle relaxers when he has an episode.

About 3 weeks ago he was climbing up a step and hit his throat on it. Later that morning he was limping and developed this strange throat clearing noise. It was not stridor but more like a low grunting sound. This was on 1/7/2015. I had started a new batch of Trilostane 2 days before. I also gave him the painkillers, NSAIDS, and muscle relaxers.

He had his routine ACTH testing on 1/15 and I decided to wait until then to mention to his Vet what had happened. He had just had a wellness checkup the month before. We didn't do the ACTH at that time because there was a mix up with scheduling and the Vet didn't have the Cortrosyn available that day. The injury happened after that visit.

I wasn't present during the exam but when his Vet called to give me his results (which were controlled), I asked her about the throat issue and she said she applied direct pressure to his trachea area since she drew from the jugular vein. She said she didn't notice anything wrong with his throat at the time.

They also did a regular lab panel and potassium was checked but not sodium. (I don't know why this wasn't done) We found out he had hypothyroidism and she ordered 0.1mg Soloxine BID and 100mg of Gabapentin BID to control his possible nerve pain. She wanted me to stop the Carprofen because his liver Alk Phospatase came back elevated at 477 U/L.

The next few days he became extremely lethargic. The cough worsened. He wouldn't get up from bed. He was constipated, didn't want to walk, and looked horrible. I thought I was going to lose him. I stopped giving him all meds that day except the Soloxine and Gabapentin. His Vet called me that night and I told her what was going on. She asked me to get an electrolyte panel the next day. She also said to reduce the Gabapentin by dividing the capsule and said I could give him his Tramadol. I asked her if I should stop the Trilostane and she said, "No". (I had only skipped one dose at this point). I asked her by allowing the cortisol back in his bloodstream would it help his pain? She told me it didn't work like that. I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding canine Cushing's and it can work like that! I stopped the Trilostane completely anyway against her advice.

Well, he improved immediately. The next morning he got out of bed and wanted to go outside on his own without being lifted of carried. I did not take him to have his electrolytes tested as I no longer have any trust in this Vet. I don't understand why a full electrolyte panel wasn't ordered when she drew his lab work. I gave him his Soloxine and Tramadol and skipped the Gabapentin. He is back to himself the last 2 days. He has a slight issue still with his throat. Very slight compared to the days before. Just a little throat clearing now and then.

The issue I have with this Vet is extensive. I won't go into further detail as I don't think it is relevant to this immediate situation. I just don't think she is competent in treating Cushing's. From my experiences, only certain Vets have expertise in this area of treatment. I do not think she has this.

The downside is that his Cushing's symptoms are already returning. His increased thirst and appetite have come back almost immediately.

I need a new Vet. I also have concerns about the compounded medication. I want to have it tested for potency. I am going to call tomorrow to see if I can do this as a consumer. If the medication is potency is correct, I want to start using it again under the supervision of a new Vet. I would purchase Vetoryl but he has done so well with the 5mg BID Trilostane. I can't purchase that strength in the Vetoryl.

I am interested in treating the Cushing's with Selegiline if the Trilostane is failing.

I don't have any concrete proof that the Trilostane failed other than he improved after stopping it. The ACTH pre and post showed optimal control. I know I should've done an electrolyte panel but I was angry with her and my trust was gone. I thought it would've been useless at the time since I thought he was dying. I was looking for comfort for him and not more needle pokes. I think if I had more trust in her I would've had the electrolyte panel done. I have wanted to fire her long ago but kept putting it off. Now a crisis has happened and I am beating myself up over not doing it sooner.

His labs: 1/15/15

Post-Trilostane
Cortisol Sample 1/results 2.2 ug/dl ref. range
Cortisol Sample 2/results 8.4 ug/dl ref. range
(Pre and Post cortisol levels between 1.5-9.1 ug/dL)

Reference Range
Alk Phosphatase 477 U/L (high) 5-131 U/L
Glucose 110 70-138 mg/dL
Potassium 4.6 3.6-5.5 mg/dL
BUN/creatinine Ratio 27 4-27 mg/dL
Creatinine 0.3 (low) 0.5-1.6 mg/dL
Hemoglobin 14.2 12.4-20.3 g/dL
Platelet count 451 (high) 170-400 10/uL
Monocytes 1053 (high) 0-840 /uL
T4 0.7 (low) 0.8-3.5 ug/dL

Has anyone experienced a poor outcome with compounded medications? Has anyone tested the potency or quality of a compounded medication?


I am ok with not treating the Cushing's but I would prefer not to for his comfort. I don't like to see him hungry all the time.

Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Dixie'sMom
01-25-2015, 04:24 PM
Hi MrsJune and welcome to you and your baby. I also have a doxie. :)

I am very glad you found us. The experts on this forum are amazing and I know they will be around soon to offer some input into your situation. It sounds to me like you have done a great job so far with your pup. The resource area of this forum has some great info so check it out when you feel like doing some reading.

The thing that jumped out to me regarding your pup was that the combination of drugs or a specific drug that was prescribed seemed to lead to your pups feeling so poorly since he recovered nicely when you stopped all meds. Gabapentin is an odd medicine. I have taken it myself and it made me feel like crap too (kind of zombie like), so I stopped it. I don't see any real indication that your pup needs that one unless it was prescribed by a neurologist for some reason that you did not state. As for the trilostane, it appears to me that it would be helpful to resume that since symptoms are returning. As to the throat issues, my doxie also has bizzare throat noises and I have also asked about her trachea without getting any real answers. I sure understand your position on that one. Looks like our vets could give us some answers, right? If you post your location, maybe someone on the forum has experience with the vets in your area and could recommend someone.

Hopefully the others will be by soon and offer up their expertise. In the meantime I look forward to getting to know you and you baby.

MrsJune
01-25-2015, 05:12 PM
Hello Dixie'sMom and thank you for your reply!

I have been reading the forums here and try to glean as much information as I could. I am so thankful that this board exists. :)

I was wondering about that Gabapentin too. He has no problems on the Tramadol. The Gabapentin was prescribed by his regular Vet and she isn't a neurologist.

I'm glad you mentioned the issue with the throat of your doxie. How long has she had this problem and did it come on suddenly or did it develop over time? Everything has hit my boy all at once so it was difficult to decipher which is the culprit.

I am looking forward to knowing everyone as well. It is wonderful to have a group to support one another dealing with this disease.

I am in Cedar Rapids Iowa USA

Harley PoMMom
01-26-2015, 03:06 AM
Hi and welcome to you and your dear boy!

I'm sorry your boy is having some issues right now and we will help in any way we can.


About 3 weeks ago he was climbing up a step and hit his throat on it. Later that morning he was limping and developed this strange throat clearing noise. It was not stridor but more like a low grunting sound. This was on 1/7/2015. I had started a new batch of Trilostane 2 days before. I also gave him the painkillers, NSAIDS, and muscle relaxers.

My non-cush boy, Bear, had a collapsed trachea and his cough sounded like a goose "honk." Does your boy's cough sound like that?



They also did a regular lab panel and potassium was checked but not sodium. (I don't know why this wasn't done) We found out he had hypothyroidism and she ordered 0.1mg Soloxine BID and 100mg of Gabapentin BID to control his possible nerve pain. She wanted me to stop the Carprofen because his liver Alk Phospatase came back elevated at 477 U/L.

Could you edit your post and add the reference ranges for those lab values you listed? Was his Alk Phospatase elevated before treatment started for Cushing's or did it drop to within normal ranges with treatment?

With some cush dogs, even with treatment, their elevated Alk Phospatase levels never do return to normal.



The next few days he became extremely lethargic. The cough worsened. He wouldn't get up from bed. He was constipated, didn't want to walk, and looked horrible. I thought I was going to lose him. I stopped giving him all meds that day except the Soloxine and Gabapentin. His Vet called me that night and I told her what was going on. She asked me to get an electrolyte panel the next day. She also said to reduce the Gabapentin by dividing the capsule and said I could give him his Tramadol. I asked her if I should stop the Trilostane and she said, "No". (I had only skipped one dose at this point). I asked her by allowing the cortisol back in his bloodstream would it help his pain? She told me it didn't work like that. I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding canine Cushing's and it can work like that! I stopped the Trilostane completely anyway against her advice.

Well, he improved immediately. The next morning he got out of bed and wanted to go outside on his own without being lifted of carried. I did not take him to have his electrolytes tested as I no longer have any trust in this Vet. I don't understand why a full electrolyte panel wasn't ordered when she drew his lab work. I gave him his Soloxine and Tramadol and skipped the Gabapentin. He is back to himself the last 2 days. He has a slight issue still with his throat. Very slight compared to the days before. Just a little throat clearing now and then.

Only the pet parent knows their furbaby the best, so kudos to you for stopping the Trilostane when he wasn't acting his normal self. .


The issue I have with this Vet is extensive. I won't go into further detail as I don't think it is relevant to this immediate situation. I just don't think she is competent in treating Cushing's. From my experiences, only certain Vets have expertise in this area of treatment. I do not think she has this.

Unfortunately a lot of vets are clueless when it comes to canine Cushing's and the treatment protocols. Many of us have had to fire our vet and find another one and since we as pet parents are the voice and advocate for our furbaby we do what we have to do because we love them so much.


The downside is that his Cushing's symptoms are already returning. His increased thirst and appetite have come back almost immediately.

I need a new Vet. I also have concerns about the compounded medication. I want to have it tested for potency. I am going to call tomorrow to see if I can do this as a consumer. If the medication is potency is correct, I want to start using it again under the supervision of a new Vet. I would purchase Vetoryl but he has done so well with the 5mg BID Trilostane. I can't purchase that strength in the Vetoryl.

If you do get it tested, if you wouldn't mind, could you let us know the outcome?


I don't have any concrete proof that the Trilostane failed other than he improved after stopping it. The ACTH pre and post showed optimal control. I know I should've done an electrolyte panel but I was angry with her and my trust was gone. I thought it would've been useless at the time since I thought he was dying. I was looking for comfort for him and not more needle pokes. I think if I had more trust in her I would've had the electrolyte panel done. I have wanted to fire her long ago but kept putting it off. Now a crisis has happened and I am beating myself up over not doing it sooner.

His labs: 1/15/15

Post-Trilostane
Cortisol Sample 1/results 2.2 ug/dl
Cortisol Sample 2/results 8.4 ug/dl

Alk Phosphatase 477 U/L (high)
Glucose 110
Potassium 4.6
BUN/creatinine Ratio 27
Creatinine 0.3 (low)
Hemoglobin 14.2
Platelet count 451 (high)
Monocytes 1053 (high)
T4 0.7 (low)

The therapeutic ranges for Trilostane are 1.5 ug/dl - 5.5 ug/dl, and the post can be as high as 9.1 ug/dl if all clinical symptoms are controlled. Since your boy's post was 8.4 ug/dl it could be that his Trilostane dose may need an upward adjustment.


Has anyone experienced a poor outcome with compounded medications? Has anyone tested the potency or quality of a compounded medication?


Yes, unfortunately it appears there can be a significant difference in the efficacy of compounded products. Here are the results of a recent study conducted by Dr. Audrey Cook of Texas A & M University.


Compounded trilostane capsules (15 mg, 45 mg, or 100 mg) were purchased from eight pharmacies and assayed for content and dissolution characteristics. Capsules made in-house containing either inert material or 15 mg of the licensed product and proprietary capsules (30 mg and 60 mg) served as controls. Findings were compared with regulatory specifications for the licensed product. Altogether, 96 batches of compounded trilostane and 16 control batches underwent analysis. In total, 36 of 96 (38%) compounded batches were below the acceptance criteria for content. The average percentage label claim (% LC) for each batch ranged from 39% to 152.6% (mean, 97.0%). The range of average % LC for the controls was 96.1–99.6% (mean, 97.7%). The variance in content of the purchased compounded products was substantially greater than for the controls (234.65 versus 1.27; P<0.0001). All control batches exceeded the acceptance criteria for dissolution, but 19 of 96 batches (20%) of purchased compounded products did not. Mean percent dissolution for the purchased compounded products was lower than for controls (75.96% versus 85.12%; P=0.013). These findings indicate that trilostane content of compounded capsules may vary from the prescribed strength, and dissolution characteristics may not match those of the licensed product. The use of compounded trilostane products may therefore negatively impact the management of dogs with hyperadrenocorticism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22611212

Since your boy needs a dosage that is not supplied by Dechra one option would be to see if your compounding pharmacy would be willing to "repackage" the contents of brand name Vetoryl into smaller units.

Hugs, Lori

labblab
01-26-2015, 07:42 AM
Welcome from me, too! As for compounded products, because that study that Lori listed did not name specific pharmacies, unfortunately it is impossible to know which ones had products that were problematic at that time. As Lori has suggested, one option would be to ask your current pharmacy to repackage Vetoryl for you. In that way, at least you would know that the active ingredient was sourced from an FDA approved supplier. As an alternative, a number of our members have expressed satisfaction with trilostane bought from a compounding pharmacy located in Arizona that will ship anyplace in the U.S.: Diamondback Drugs. I don't believe they will repackage Vetoryl and I don't know that anyone here has ever had their compounded med analyzed, though (or anyone else's for that matter), so in that sense, you are depending on positive customer feedback when ordering through them.

Also, as an aside, I can't resist welcoming a fellow Iowan! :) :p

I've lived in Georgia now for many years, but I was born and raised in Des Moines and Iowa will always be "home" to me. As for Cedar Rapids, I've never been there but my family are huge fans of Zach Johnson (if you follow PGA golf at all...!)...;) :D

Marianne

MrsJune
01-26-2015, 10:31 AM
Hello Lori and thank you for the hugs. I need those right now :)

I studied collapsed trachea sounds via Youtube and it didn't sound like those nor did it sound like laryngeal collapse. He has a throat clearing like when we humans have post nasal drip. Sometimes he will gag a little from it. Since stopping the medication it has improved greatly. During that crisis period his breathing was labored and made a high pitched stridorous sound. Sometimes it sounded as though there was an obstruction. He had to sleep with his head elevated to open the airway.

His alk Phos have been higher on the range than the normal reference mark since we began treatment. This last measurement was the highest so far. That is why his vet didn't want to use the Carprofen due to the elevated liver panel.

All of his clinical symptoms seemed controlled. My worry was he was heading into Addison's territory. His ACTH was controlled but perhaps his electrolytes were out of whack? I am still annoyed the vet didn't order a panel with the sodium levels.

Thank you so much for linking this information. This is very useful and will help me decide what route I will take.

Kristi

Squirt's Mom
01-26-2015, 10:33 AM
If you can afford it, I would have an MRI of his nose done asap to look for tumors. A dear friend's pup acted much the way you are describing and ended up with an aggressive tumor in the nasal passage.

MrsJune
01-26-2015, 10:36 AM
Welcome from me, too! As for compounded products, because that study that Lori listed did not name specific pharmacies, unfortunately it is impossible to know which ones had products that were problematic at that time. As Lori has suggested, one option would be to ask your current pharmacy to repackage Vetoryl for you. In that way, at least you would know that the active ingredient was sourced from an FDA approved supplier. As an alternative, a number of our members have expressed satisfaction with trilostane bought from a compounding pharmacy located in Arizona that will ship anyplace in the U.S.: Diamondback Drugs. I don't believe they will repackage Vetoryl and I don't know that anyone here has ever had their compounded med analyzed, though (or anyone else's for that matter), so in that sense, you are depending on positive customer feedback when ordering through them.

Also, as an aside, I can't resist welcoming a fellow Iowan! :) :p

I've lived in Georgia now for many years, but I was born and raised in Des Moines and Iowa will always be "home" to me. As for Cedar Rapids, I've never been there but my family are huge fans of Zach Johnson (if you follow PGA golf at all...!)...;) :D

Marianne

Thank you Marianne,

That information is a great help for me!

Zach Johnson's Dad is my chiropractor! He is wonderful :)

I bet you don't miss the cold :P

Kristi

MrsJune
01-26-2015, 10:42 AM
If you can afford it, I would have an MRI of his nose done asap to look for tumors. A dear friend's pup acted much the way you are describing and ended up with an aggressive tumor in the nasal passage.

I never even thought of this area to be a concern. I have been concentrating on the throat.

Was your friend's pup's tumor operable?

I know they have to use anesthesia for MRI's. I worry with his age and other problems but I will mention this when I find a new Vet.

Thank you,
Kristi

Squirt's Mom
01-26-2015, 11:03 AM
Sadly, no. It had progressed too far by the time it was found. :(

Dixie'sMom
01-26-2015, 02:54 PM
I'm glad you mentioned the issue with the throat of your doxie. How long has she had this problem and did it come on suddenly or did it develop over time? Everything has hit my boy all at once so it was difficult to decipher which is the culprit. Dixie sounds like a little pot belly pig rooting around, snorting and sort of a grunting, mucusy noise. Sometimes she snores loudly and other times doesn't snore at all. It almost sounds to me like she has a sore throat. I also listened to the youtube videos and Dixie's noises do not sound like those either. The best I can recall is that it started after she got choked eating her kibble one day. She started making noises like the goose honking and/or a backward sneeze. Sometimes it is better than others. It's just obviously abnormal. The vet seems to think that it is related to her weight gain and the extra skin and fat around her neck. She thinks the honking episodes are backward sneezes. I'm skeptical.

Your boy is a cutie. :) What is his name?

labblab
01-26-2015, 05:05 PM
Zach Johnson's Dad is my chiropractor! He is wonderful :)

Oh I love it!! They seem like a wonderful family. It is such a hoot, because nobody in my own family has ever hoisted a golf club other than to play miniature golf :rolleyes:, but we all love to watch golf on T.V. And my 95-year-old mom especially loves Zach. She was so bummed because he missed the cut in this past weekend's tournament. :(

Anyway, the next time you see Zach's dad, tell him that there are fans in the most unlikely of places -- even dog messageboards! :p

Marianne