Pip -taking me awhile here to get oriented!

[cappyclemson]

Came here with a 10-year-old Vallhund, Pip, who also has retinopathy. He has no symptoms seemingly except alopecia (hair-thinning plus color loss). Had asked vet specifically to do thyroid panels looking for answers to cause of alopecia. (Couple of months ago, I thought there might have been an instance of bed-wetting, but have never seen it since.) We know so far this is adrenal in origin: that's all. The vet does say the numbers from his test are 'odd.' So the next step is an ultrasound.

(I have been a member of the Degenerative Myelopathy group since around 2002 when I had a GSD showing the first signs of paralysis. It will take awhile to function smoothly here, I expect. Also I have occular myasthenia, so I may goof entries sometimes.)

Pip is a 30-lb cattledog, a service dog for me. He came from Finland after I lost my GSD. They are long-lived in general and I hope for many more good years for him!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Pip,

If you could get copies of the test/s that were done on Pip and post those results here that help us to provide you with more meaningful feedback. All we need to see are those results that are marked abnormal along with the reference ranges and units of measurement.

I see from your post that you wanted a thyroid panel done, was one performed, and if so, what were those results? How did the vet diagnose Pip's adrenal issue, and does this involve one or both adrenal glands? Is the vet leaning toward a Cushing's diagnosis for Pip? Although Cushing's can be the cause of alopecia, there are also many other diseases and conditions that could be the source for alopecia.

Looking forward to hearing more about Pip, and know we will help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[cappyclemson]

Thanks for writing: will have to wait to get test results till I see the vet about the next step. Vet is sure about adrenal involvement. As to alopecia, it started around 2011 or 2012, and it still does not look like Alopecia-x; I have a picture of a Vall with that. My old university has websites on both alopecia-x and Cushings, so when weather is more suitable for a trip over the mountain I may take him there.

Oh--still low thyroid, as always; no change.

[cappyclemson]

The vet seems to think no treatment may be as good or better than starting Lysodren. Pip has 'sub-clinical' Cushings--no visible signs except hair loss--which is actually due to Alopecia-x, possibly caused by high hormone levels. Lysodren is used to treat both high cortisol and high hormone levels. (When winter's over, I hope to make the drive over the mountains to the U. of Tenn., which treats both Cushings and Alopecia-x.)

Another talk with vet tomorrow. No 24-hour vet here, which may be part of his thinking. But Pip is my service dog, my only companion, my last dog. I want him to live!

[molly muffin]

When the weather is good I would definitely take him over to U of Tenn, as they are very good with cushing dogs and could probably come up with the best treatment option.
It's good that he has no symptoms right now. You could also give a try to the melatonin and flax seed treatment option.
http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/pdf/TreatmentInfoAtypicalCushings201107.pdf

[cappyclemson]

Pip started 30 mg Vetoryl once a day about 40 days ago and within a week he began to grow new hair on his bald, black neck. (Vetoryl amount prescribed by U. of Tenn.)

Then last week he lost more fur on one flank (which now shows a trace of new hair) and a couple of days ago he got a bald spot on his side. Antibiotic was prescribed in the first instance (tho a human dermatologist said it did not look like an infection as the vet thought). We came home from the vet's with still another antibiotic.

When Cushing's (now controlled according to ACTH stim test) causes alopecia, does it come and go in stages?

The vet does not know for sure (rare breed dog from Finland) and I am confused. Confused about the cause of the new bald spots and confused about whether he needs an antibiotic or just cleaning plus soothing care (neem oil).

[Squirt's Mom]

I've merged your two threads and added your baby's name to the title to make it easier to find. We like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[labblab]

Many of us have found that after successful treatment is underway, our Cushpups have gone through massive shedding episodes, but always with the regrowth of new hair afterwards. In the case of my own Lab, I was very startled to find chunks of hair coming out within the first few months of treatment. But when I looked carefully, I always saw that there were new baby hairs underneath the areas that were shed. After a bit of time, the mass shedding stopped, and he was left with a new solid coat overall. For my boy, there was no change in the nature of his coat afterwards, but some members have reported some changes either in the texture and/or color.

What we have been told is that the mass shedding results from the resumption of the normal hair growth cycle that had gone dormant while the Cushing's was uncontrolled. Exactly how this works, I cannot tell you, but it did seem to be what was happening for my boy since there was always new "fuzz" underneath, as opposed to the bare skin that was present in the areas where he had lost his coat before the Cushing's was diagnosed. Of course, this may or may not be what is happening for Pip. But if so, no antibiotics or special care are needed because the shedding is not the result of infection or any abnormality other than the Cushing's earlier retardation of the normal hair loss/growth cycle.

Marianne

[cappyclemson]

shedding: Pip's a Nordic dog and never really shed. Sometimes found hairs stuck to a fabric, but never any to sweep up. U-T used to say that was not uncommon with Arctic dogs, but I have heard other Vallhund owners say their dogs shed.

Maybe I should hang onto the antibiotic for awhile: keep it without using it? Pretty sure it was given to me because vet sould not figure anything else to do.

(I am having real trouble finding my way around here: vision not very good.)

[cappyclemson]

Thanks especially for info that additional and temporary loss of fur may be natural for dogs with alopecia. I will hold the antibiotic in reserve to see what happens. There is currently very little hair to no hair in the last bald spot, but the vet did think he observed some growth in the first one. If I sound witless, it's because I am at wit's end--do nothing or do SOME thing, ANY thing!

[cappyclemson]

Pip's bald spots: some are filling in with hair since 30 mg vetoryl begun. Other bald area have appeared, getting larger, one with normal looking skin, others with the black skin underneath. It seems black skin has clumped the fur with specks and sticky black flakes; it can be removed, but fur comes with it. Should I try to keep it clean (special witch hazel)? The vet prescribed antibiotic: first one was barfed and stopped, and the second one I withheld because 30 mg vetoryl works around the neck. (Human dermatology professor thought not an infection.) Forum member suggested leaving alone because normal shedding had begun but like some Nordic dogs (Dr. Oliver), he had never shed.)

Just started the antibiotic, since alopecia is advancing. Any other ideas or suggestions? Never have been usual symptoms of hunger, thirst, excessive urination.

[Renee]

I'm not sure if there is something specific going on, but my pug blew her entire coat (I mean, bald) at least twice when we first started treatment. It all grew back extra fluffy like a puppy coat.

[labblab]

Hi again! You'll see I've merged your new post into your original thread about Pip. This way, all of Pip's history and treatment will always be consolidated in one place. ;)

Marianne