Bug is an angel April 2018

[bugsmom]

Hello, I am new here, I have a 9 yr old boston/pug BUG, his name is Bug, I am Bug's mom, Michelle. About 9 mos ago Bug started having thinning hair on rear and legs, excessive thirst, no longer able to jump on the bed, and weight gain, he was up to 36lbs. In Dec of 2012 I had him tested, I thought he might be diabetic, the tests came back for Cushings. The vet started him on Vetoryl 60mg once a day. He seemed to get a little better. We did more blood work and his labs came back normal. About the first of april we did more blood work which came back normal. About this time, Bug started losing weight, the excessive drinking returned and he was hungry all the time. His weight went from 36lbs to 25 lbs in about 5 weeks. I had him tested again and now he is diabetic. Today, 5/28 he is having his 3rd glucose fast bloodwork done, we cant seem to get his insulin regulated.
Did the vetoryl cause the diabetes? He is now on 60mg of vetoryl every other day due the weight loss, as soon as I am out of the prescription the dose will go down. Bug is only 9yrs old and love of my life, he keeps me going. All my other dogs lived late into their teens and I thought I would have so much more time left with my Bug. What do I do? Can you manage Cushings and diabetes successfully? How much time do I have left? Please help ..... I am heartbroken.

[bugsmom]

Hi, I'm new here, My name is Michelle and I have bug / boston/ pug mix named BUG. He is 9yrs old and was diagnosed with Cushings in Dec of 2012. Last summer I noticed he was getting quite fat, pot belly, thinning hair, not jumping up like before, excessive thirst, excessive dry skin/ dander ... I thought he was just starting to age a bit. He was diagnosed in Dec 2012 with Cushings. He weighed 36lbs and was put on 60mg vetoryl. His symptons seems to improve a bit. With follow up blood work he seemed to be doing well.

About 6 weeks ago the excessive drinking and peeing came back and he began losing weight, he has dropped down to 25lbs and he was starving all the time. He had been on a weight control diet. I started increasing his food and he kept losing weight and was starving all the time. We went back to the vet and he was diagnosed with diabetes ...... I would like to know ..... can vetoryl cause diabetes or was this just meant to be.

Bug is at the vet today for his third glucose fast .... we are having trouble getting his blood sugars and insulin levels right. Since the weight loss the vet dropped his vetoryl down to 60mg every other day until the prescription was gone and then will lower the dose. (I am using up the meds I have as that they are so expensive .... will this hurt him?????????

I am devastated, Bug is the love of my life. All of my other dogs lived well into their teens, Bug is only 9. How much time do I have left? Can Cushings and Diabetes be managed together? This is killing me financially and emotionally. I am on disability and this is hard. What is is quality of life going to be? So far he is his sweet self .... a little more withdrawn, doesnt cuddle as much. Please help

[labblab]

Hello and welcome to you and Bug! I have only a moment to type right now, but you will see that I have moved both of your new replies into this one single thread for Bug. Even though some info is the same in both replies, I think each one also contains some unique info. So that's why I am leaving them both here to be read. ;)

I am so glad you've found us and joined our family!
Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Michelle,

Welcome to you and Bug. So sorry for the reasons that brought you to us but glad you found your way here.

We have a sister site that deals with canine diabetes, the wonderful people there have a wealth of knowledge concerning diabetes in a dog, I do urge you to join there also, here's a link: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

Could you get copies of all tests that were done on Bug and post any abnormalities that are listed. We are especially interested in the results of all ACTH stimulation tests.

Every other day dosing is not a protocol that is usually advised, so I am quite concerned with Bug's vet experience with Trilostane/Vetoryl.

The diabetes can be difficult to get under control when a dog has elevated cortisol running through their system. The folks at the diabetes forum can help you get Bug's glucose regulated, so please do join them there.

We are here to help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask any and all questions.

Love and hugs, Lori

[Budsters Mom]

Hello and welcome from me too:)
You have come to the right place! There are many K9Cushing's angels standing by to help and stay with you every step of the way. They love details, test results, any information you can get your hands on. The more the better. We will do all we can to help. Others will be popping in to welcome you also. So again welcome to you and Bug.:)

Hugs,
Kathy an Buddy:cool:

[labblab]

Hi again! I am able to pop back for a couple of minutes, and just want to confirm what Lori has already told you -- I am afraid that dosing Bug with Vetoryl every other day is not a good idea at all. Since the drug only remains active in the body for approx 12 hours or so, Bug is getting too high a dose on one day, and then is essentially receiving no Vetoryl at all on the second day. Every dog metabolizes the drug differently, but we would expect that this is creating big peaks and valleys for him which cannot be helpful in terms of stabilizing his glucose level and insulin needs.

Dosing every other day is really not recommended for any dogs, and for the reasons above, I would think it especially problematic for a diabetic dog. In fact, specialists in treating both Cushing's and diabetes generally recommend splitting the daily trilostane total into TWO doses to be given at 12 hour intervals so as to keep the endocrinological system more evenly balanced throughout each day and night.

I surely do understand how expensive the Vetoryl is. But identifying and maintaining the optimal dose is going to be extremely important in terms of gaining the upper hand on Bug's diabetic control.

Gotta run, but will try to return later on to add some more thoughts in this regard.
Marianne

[bugsmom]

thankyou so much for all of your responses. I go tonight at 830 to pick up Bug and I have asked for all of his lab results to be copied and ready since this began back in Dec. I will also ask the Vet to change his Vetoryl to a lower dose. I've called several times today and his blood sugars have all been really high, even with the insulin.

As I've read other posts today I realize that I am not the only one totally devasted by Bug's medical issues. My husband of 13yrs left last summer and Bug is my main man now. He guards the house, plays with the grandkids, and is my snuggle bunny. I have been reduced to a blubbering, incoherant, non-functioning idiot over this illness and diagnosis. Mostly, I can't bear to watch him suffer, he seems okay right now .... but has gotton so thin, his little back bone sticks up, his collar used to be too tight on the longest notch, now it is on the shortest notch and just hangs around his little neck. I can hardly bear it. He has gotten a little witrdrawn, he does not like the insulin shots, but like the food after ..... he never seems to get enough food, he is always hungry and begging. At what point do I give up? Is there hope for a few more years? Anyone out there know?????

[maria]

So sorry Bug is not doing well. I wish I could offer advice but we are still waiting for a diagnosis on my dog. I do have lots of experience (being in rescue many years) with other illnesses. Both conditions should be manageable it just might take time and tweaking to get the right dose/drugs/combinations to work. It also, takes time for the Cushings to get under control with the meds. But if your dog is still alert, enjoys your company and enjoys his food, I don't think he is suffering. My dog is constantly charging the food bowls. Even after she finishes eating she will fight the others for food so I understand what you mean about him being hungry. And, his body is being deprived of energy with the diabetes as well so he has a double whammy. I am sure you will hear from others who are very knowledgeable about this but both conditions can be controlled as I understand it. What are you feeding him? Is he on a special diet? I will be praying for him. Try to stay positive.

[labblab]

Both on behalf of Bug's safety and also the high cost of Vetoryl, you will want to make sure there is a reasonable basis for the specific revised dose before you make another purchase. Has your vet been performing monitoring ACTH tests so as to judge the effect of the 60 mg. dosing on Bug's cortisol level? That info will be really important in terms of deciding where to go from here...

Marianne

[Peety's Fur-mom]

Hi and welcome, I'm so sorry your lil snuggle Bug is not feeling so good. I can't really speak to the Cushing med's or the diabeties, but I wanted to just say hi and let you know you are not alone. We have all felt disheartened and desperate at times. We understand and hope that you can rest knowing there are many caring people here to help in any way they can. So hang in there and big hugs to both you and Bugs.
Pat Peety's #1 fan

[Boriss McCall]

Hi,
I am a Boston mom as well. My Boriss was diagnosed last year. I too was extremely devastated when I came to this forum. My heart felt like it was going to stop beating.
I am not dealing with both diabetes & cushings. Just the cushings. But, I know several people have figured out the balance.

Boriss was withdrawn at first as well. He normally always has to be right by my side & getting all my attention. When he first got diagnosed he wasn't doing that anymore & didn't play with any of his toys. It made me so sad to see him like this. He also couldn't jump up on the bed.

To give you some hope.. ;) It only took a couple weeks & I got my little man back. He was back to cuddling, playing & being a normal crazy boston terrier again.
I know I haven't been dealing with this disease as long as a a lot of the other people on hear. But, from what I have been told once you get your dog all situated & the meds regulated it is possible for them to live out their intended life span. The good news is there are people on this board that can prove that from their own experiences. :D

In the beginning it does feel so overwhelming.. I was right there with you. Not that all days are sunny for us even still. But, Boriss has been on meds since last summer & he is doing really well.

I hope you get answers soon & you will see improvement with your Bug.
I agree with all the others I would say that dosing every other day is not the way to go.

Hang in there.. We are all here to help & listen.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too. I know this is scary but a dog can live a just fine quality of life with cushings.

As Marianne said, for dogs with diabetes usually the recommendation is to split a dose, morning and evening, about 12 hours apart to keep the cortisol at an even level and the insulin better regulated. This is per a study done, I believe by Dr. Peterson. The other thing is that depending on what the last or current ACTH showed the post number to be, I'd go with the 1mg to 1lb ratio. Then that is split. So, if you are on 30 mg, it would be 15 mg am and 15 mg pm. Since this isn't a dosage that Dechra makes, then if you did that you would need to do compounded Trilostane. Vetoryl comes in I think it is 10mg, 30 mg, 60mg, 120mg. If you want to stick to vetoryl, you could do 10/10.

I just want to welcome you. You'll find a lot of information and kind people at our sister site which Lori provided. We have members who are on both sites, because they too are dealing with cushings and diabetes.

Now, a big hug! We'll figure this out.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

At what point do I give up? Is there hope for a few more years? Anyone out there know?????

One important thing I want you to know is that Cushing's is NOT a death sentence for one's dog. With proper medical management, close monitoring and owner observation, most Cushingoid pets can live to their full life expectancy, with complete or partial resolution of clinical signs, and good quality of life!

Love and hugs, Lori

[bugsmom]

Thankyou all so much ..... as to some of the questions .... when Bug was at his chunky 36lb weight we had all of the Cushings blood test done 1st test, then another test 2weeks later with normal values after meds (60mg vetoryl), then again 3 month later ....still normal levels on the 60mg vetoryl ... he had started losing a little weight at this point and I thought it was just the meds working, winter being over and more excercise plus a reduced fat diet. Shortly after that, he started having increased thirst and urination and a dramatic weight loss over a 4 week period, (he is now a bony 25lbs) and always hungry ..... so I took him in and he had high blood sugars .... so he has had 2 blood fasting tests done ..... the first with no insulin, then next fasting w insulin, and then todaya 3RD test w his food and insulin ..... I've called several times today and his sugars have been high so we will probably have to go up on the insulin.

I have been feeding him HILLs Science Prescription WD, mixing 1 can of wet to 2 1/2 cups of dry per day ..... this is almost 3 times was he was eating 2months ago. I am concerned about this food as the one of the main ingredients listed is CELLULOSE .... is this even healthy? This is the dog food that the Vet is reccommending. I only want the best for my little guy ..... but funds are short ..... I've gone without my meds just so he can have his.

I'm assuming I will need to get this Vetoryl lowered and then have another Cushing's test done. When I pick him up and get his lab tests this evening I will post the numbers. Thankyou all for your support, your kind words and your advice. Please keep us in your prayers. Michelle

[Simba's Mom]

Hello and welcome from Simba and me, we are so sorry to hear your little Bug is having problems, but you have found the right place...we all understand here and feel your pain...the first time you hear the word cushings, its a horrible thing, then you try to learn all about it and the effects it has on your furbaby, so settle in and read some threads, it's amazing what you can learn from others on this site....

[molly muffin]

What I'd like you to do is go over and register at our sister site k9diabetes.com. They can tell you all about diets, insulin, testing, and everything that goes along with diabetes.
I can't really say anything on the cushings testing, since we haven't seen the numbers. When you get the tests copies, just post date, test (high/low, range) You don't need to post anything that is normal. We would want to see any specific cushings tests though such as LDDS (low dex), ACTH with the pre and post numbers. Those are important in knowing what to do next and how things are going.
For the insulin and BG numbers though, you'll get a wealth of information from the k9diabetes site and like I said before, we have members who are on both sites and information flows freely between the two. We work together really well. :)
Mot important is what Lori just said, a normal lifespan is perfectly possible. :)
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[bugsmom]

also ..... when they first tested him in Dec for Cushings.... they also checked for diabetes and his blood sugars were normal .... can Vetoryl cause diabetes?????

[frijole]

also ..... when they first tested him in Dec for Cushings.... they also checked for diabetes and his blood sugars were normal .... can Vetoryl cause diabetes?????

No but dogs can be misdiagnosed with one disease and actually have the other. We see this alot actually and so do the folks at the diabetes site. The symptoms are the same.

Are you seeing a regular vet or a specialist? Kim

[addy]

Vetoryl does not cause diabetes but it can show up in Cush pups even though the pup is being treated. Our IMS warned me that diabetes can often show up if there are also problems with the dog's pancreas.

I'm sorry you are facing all of this. It happens, diabetes can just show up and we have seen it happen with other pups.

Please go register on our sister site as Sharlene has mentioned. Good people with tons of knowledge can help you and it is not unusual to have members go back and forth from each site.

(((hugs))))))

[bugsmom]

Thankyou all..... I did go and register at the Diabetes site, but have had no responses yet. Bug has been having regular bloodwork since Dec .... to the tune of several thousand dollars so far. I believe our Vet is a regular Vet, but I feel very comfortable with her .... she even took off her vet fee one visit so that I would have enough money to pay for the blood test. She has spent hours on the phone with me and seems very dedicated.

I will post Bugs blood results later tonight or in the morning. I have asked the vet to have the all the results ready for me when pick my little guy up tonight! I MISS HIM TERRIBLY ..... THE house it too quiet without him.

Michelle and Bug

[molly muffin]

Don't worry you will get a response from the diabetes site. :)
I really hate it when my molly isn't home with me to. Too quiet is exactly right.
sharlene and molly muffin

[labblab]

Hi again from me. Yes indeed, we will really be interested in those ACTH test results. If the previous monitoring tests all indicated that Bug's cortisol level fell within the therapeutic range on the 60mg. once daily, then I am confused as to why your vet switched to every other day dosing now and why you all are thinking the dose needs to be lowered? Can you tell us some more about that?

Marianne

[labblab]

Michelle, I've just come back from adding a reply to your thread over on k9diabetes. But I wanted to repeat the same thing here: before you go to the expense of placing a new order of Vetoryl, it is really important to figure out the optimal dose for Bugs. In order to do that, we really need to know the actual numbers for his previous ACTH tests as well as a specific summary of his dosing history. I am posting this in both places to try to catch you before you place a new medication order today...

[labblab]

I am posting a copy of a reply that Michelle has just posted on her k9diabetes thread, as well as my followup questions to her over there. I am hoping Michelle will come back over here as well, so that we can continue our conversation about Bug's Vetoryl dosing.


Hello, bugs moms here. rather discouraged this morning. Bug was started on the 60mg of vetoriyl the end of Dec. and did wiil with normal blood for cushing work thru out march. In March He started dropping some with, I thought his diet was paying off. then increased thrisrt, hunger, tummy trouble.... very hungry and more weight loss. They did blood work for diabeties and it was positive. He had dropped down to 25 lb and that is when the Vet went to 60 vetoryl every other day..... that was to help me with finances because I had just purchased his full prescription for the month and it was over 100.00.
I talked to the vet last night about changing down to the 30mg vetory once a day and she agreed. Then after I got home from the vet I saw the posts here recommendind a twice dose daily. When I call my Vet this morning they were against it because there was no way to split a 30mg dose in half for twice daily. I was very disappointed. Any suggetstions?


Thanks so much for this additional information and I hate to bug you for still more, but your answers are very important in helping us figure things out. So the shift to giving 60 mg. every other day was solely to help with the cost of the treatment and not because Bug's monitoring ACTH test showed that his cortisol level was dropping too low on that dose? Or were you also thinking that, due to his weight loss, Bug would automatically no longer need such a large dose?

Can you please, please find out the specific dates and test results for Bug's monitoring ACTH tests? I cannot stress how important this information is in terms of figuring out a gameplan. Because no matter what the motivation was for altering his dose, you need to know whether his cortisol response warranted a decrease, as well.

Your vet is absolutely right that it is not safe to open and split the contents of Vetoryl capsules. But here's the thing -- if Bug instead really needs 60 mg. of trilostane each day to maintain a therapeutic cortisol level, then giving him only a single 30 mg. Vetoryl capsule is not going to keep his Cushing's under control regardless of whether it is given in a single daily dose or split into two doses. This is why I keep harping about that ACTH testing -- in order to find out what dose Bug really needs to be taking.

For dogs who need trilostane doses other than those supplied in brandname Vetoryl capsules, the other option is to turn to a compounding pharmacy. These are specialized pharmacies that can provide customized doses, using either brandname Vetoryl as the basis for the custom dose or instead using bulk trilostane that they have purchased themselves. Some vets do prefer that their patients use brandname Vetoryl whenever possible. But when cost or dosing strength prohibits the use of Vetoryl, purchasing compounded trilostane is an alternative. And compounded bulk trilostane is typically much less expensive than brandname Vetoryl. So if the choice for you comes down to either using compounded trilostane or not being able to afford the cost of the Vetoryl dose that Bug really needs, I hope your vet would be open to discussing the compounding option with you.

We can talk about this much more back over at k9cushings. But since I saw that you had first posted here, I wanted to make sure that you had a reply waiting for you here, too. So bottom line: please get us those ACTH testing dates and numbers, OK?

Marianne

[molly muffin]

I'll just throw this in, check out Diamondback drugs online, they can do a 15/15 dosage for you with a prescription. There are options.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[bugsmom]

In going over the requested bloowork copies that I requested from the vet ... there appear to be some missing .... on a geriatric panel done 12/29/12



Alk Phos was 1407H ref 10-129



SGPT (alt) 198H ref 10-75



cholest 566 ref 105-300



glucose 162 ref 50-121



his weight at this time was 36lbs and had all the symptoms of Cushings .... he was started on 60mg vetory daily....



He had a Dex Suppression done on 1/5

cortisol 0hr 5.6

cortisol 4hr 3.9

cortisol 8hr 3.6HIGH norm is 0.0 =1.4



on 1/26 he had Acth Response done (still on 60mg vetoryl daily)



Coritsol pre 4.2 norm

coritsol post 12.0 norm



he had more tests on 4/24 for cushings .... I dont have these numbers (seems the vet forgot to give them to me) but was told they were normol levels and proceeded with the 60mg vetoryl 1 daily. About this time I noticed Bug was losing weight and having tummy aches. About 5/7 I took him in because the excessive drinking and peeing were back and they tested his blood sugar which started us on the this next roller coaster. He was now down to 28lbs .... and he is now down to 25lbs It was at this point that the vet suggested 60mg vetoryl every other day as that I had just refilled the prescription.

[labblab]

Hmmm....thanks again for this additional info. But I must admit that more questions have been raised. :o

First off, Bug's glucose level was already elevated back in December. Since Cushing's and diabetes share many of the same symptoms, I'm wondering why your vet settled on Cushing's as the diagnosis at that time instead of pursuing more testing re: Bug's glucose levels. Even though his Dex Suppression test was "positive," that particular test is easily skewed by other, nonadrenal disease such as diabetes. So given the elevated glucose level, I am starting to wonder whether diabetes has been the culprit all along, rather than Cushing's.

Another important point is that Bug's 1/26 monitoring ACTH test (after a month on the 60 mg. dose) had a post-ACTH result of 12.0. Even though this would be listed as "normal" on the lab results, this is not normal for a dog being treated with Vetoryl. The therapeutic goal is for a cortisol level between 1.45 and no higher than 9.1 (assuming that all symptoms are resolved). So this result was actually too high for Bug, even on the 60 mg. dose. And so this makes the April ACTH result even more important.

Michelle, I need to ask you an important question. And that is, how confident do you feel about your vet's experience with managing diabetes and Cushing's? There are several red flags that stand out for me. First, the fact that the elevated glucose was not mentioned nor explored back in December. Secondly, your vet's management of the supposed Cushing's -- the 30-day ACTH was not in therapeutic range, and when we fast-forward to May, your vet advised you to switch to every-other-day dosing which is a huge problem for a diabetic dog. In honesty, I do wonder whether Bug has Cushing's at all, or whether the diabetes has been the primary problem all along. In the alternative, if Bug truly does have Cushing's, it is important to know what the April ACTH testing result turned out to be, since his earlier result was not within therapeutic range.

I totally defer to the folks on the diabetes forum as to your vet's management of Bug's diabetic issues. But if they also express questions or concerns about how your vet is handling things, I'd encourage you to seek out a second opinion. These two diseases are very complicated, and our experience here is that it can be critical to consult with a vet who specializes in these types of disorders. In the long run, it may actually end up saving you money because you are not spinning your wheels with changes that are not productive. We can help you locate a specialist in your area.

I hope that some other folks will also add their thoughts. But right now, I am very worried as to the way in which your vet is managing Bug's care.

Marianne

[frijole]

Marianne, I posted the same thing yesterday for the same reason. I am also concerned that perhaps Bugs has diabetes and not cushings. I agree that we need to see the April acth test results. Kim

[bugsmom]

My pug/Boston is 10yrs old & was diagnosed with Cushings about 2 yrs ago. 6 mos after was diagnosed with Diabetes. He has lost both eyes due to this, but recovered miraculously. Recently he has started having rectal bleeding. I thought it was a new treat so stopped it, it seemed to get better, then came back. The bleeding comes with a stool, at first I thought it might just be a hemorroid, but now I don't know. Sometimes there is a lot of blood. I tried researching Trylostane on the internet to see if this is a side effect, but could find nothing. Does anyone know what this could be?

[mytil]

I have just a sec but I certainly would call my vet first thing about this. Is the blood bright red or a deep dark color?

I am not aware that Trilostane is causing this. Can you also tell us how much you are giving and if he is on any other medication (besides anything for his Diabetes) and what were his last ACTH monitoring test numbers.

Terry

PS - I merged your new thread with your old one so we can see the history

[StarDeb55]

Let me tell you that I'm not a trilo expert, but I've never heard of rectal or GI bleeding as a side effect. Let's see what some of the trill experts have to say.

I do have several questions. Have you alerted your vet about the bloody stools? Have you been able to associate the bleeding with any specific kind of food or treat? If not, you need to do this immediately. GI bleeding is nothing to mess around with. Even if your pup is only loosing a small amount of blood during each of these episodes, over the long term, this kind of bleeding can lead to serious anemia which can be life-threatening. I just want to let you know that I'm a medical lab tech with 30+ years of experience, & have seen what can happen in people with this kind of bleeding. It could be something as simple as an ulcer that is probably easily treated, but it could be something major. I don't want to scare the daylights out of you, but PLEASE notify your vet.

Debbie

[bugsmom]

thankyou for your reply. My current vet is on maternity leave and won't be back til Jan. On top of that.... I have no money for a vet right now. I need a miracle. I am on disability and can barely afford Bug's meds. His trylostane costs me about 75.00 a month and his insulin is another 50.00. His blood tests run me another 300.00 every three months. I am behind on my house payment and go without my own meds so he can have his. I am scared that if this continues I may lose him. It was only due to the help of a kind stranger that paid for his eye surgeries ( he had to have both of his eyes removed, they ruptured due to the diabetes), this kind stranger also helped pay some of Bug's vet bills and helped get him into the internal medicine vet. I was hoping to find some explanations from others who have dogs with Cushings & diabetes. I am very worried about him.

[bugsmom]

I have tried to isolate what it could be that might be causing the bleeding ..... the only thing different in his diet was that I had tried some new treats. I stopped the treats (he only got a small amt) and the stopped for about a week, so I thought that was the problem, then it started up again. I am very strict with his diet and nothing else has changed. Again... I am so worried

[My sweet Ginger]

Hi Bug's mom,
When my pup had blood coming out ( both bright red and other times very dark colored) during or right after BMs from certain drug reaction the metronidazole stopped the bleeding very quickly each time. There should be a covering vet while your vet is gone, right?
I almost had a heart attack when I saw the blood the first time as I've never seen it on her and I'm still not sure whether she had colitis or IBD but metronidazole was all she needed. She now gets plain yogurt every time she eats her mush that I make for her, 2-3 times a day.
She's been doing good and I try not to change her diet as I suspect her GI system is very sensitive.
Talk to the vet whoever is filling in for the regular vet and I'm sure he/she can prescribe Bug Metronidazole and see if that helps him.
I hope that works.

[bugsmom]

Thankyou so much for your reply. Please pray for us as that I have no money to take Bug to the vet. I will call and see if there is any the replacing vet will call in a prescription for Bug. They are very picky and money hungry vets ...... so I don't know if they will.

[mytil]

Hi again,

I am so sorry you are having these tremendous troubles. Here is a link to other links that could help with finances --- http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212.

The bleeding could be associated with his anal sacs and really it should be checked out. I would certainly contact my vets and see if they will be able to let you split the payments just this once on this one as it can be an emergency situation.

Terry

[doxiesrock912]

Hello, you could apply for CareCredit online to cover vet costs. This would allow you to make payments. He needs to see a vet asap.

[bugsmom]

Thankyou for your posts, and suggestions, I am looking into seeing if I can qualify for any assistance. I do not qualify for credit care, when my ex left me 2 yrs ago he ruined what little credit had. I am on disability. My vet will not accept payments at all. In fact almost every vet I have called will not accept payments in my area. Please keep me in your prayers, I need a miracle. My dog bug is a Boston Terrier / Pug mix, and is my pride and joy and constant companion. He has being doing so well and I am not ready to let him go!

[Squirt's Mom]

How is Bug this morning? Does he still have loose stools? I understand and empathize with your situation....all too familiar. ;) I'm also trying to live on disability; FUN, huh? :rolleyes::D

I've been known to clean cages and floors, walk dogs, dust, etc. at the vet clinic to work off a bill when I couldn't pay. Not every vet would allow you to do this but if you have a decent relationship with yours, you might try to have a sit down talk with them and see if they will work something out with you like this.

I'm hoping he just got a bug or ate something he shouldn't have and this is over or almost over. Meaning I hope it's nothing any more serious than that.

Let us know how he is, sweetie, and keep your chin up! You love that boy and there is nothing money can buy than means more or has more healing power than that.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[bugsmom]

Hello again, Bug is a little better, but still blood in the stool, although not as much. I am very worried about anemia. I have left a message with Pet Fund for animal care that was on the link but have not heard back from them yet. I am pretty disaabled and not able to leave the house much. I am behind on my house payments and pretty much at my wits end. It has not been a good year for me. Thankyou so much for your kind words, please keep us in your prayers. Bugsmom

[molly muffin]

Oh dear, would the vet call in a perscription for metronidazole? What about adding in a probiotic, florifora for instance? I've done that with my molly ever time she gets diarrhea, but if it is bad, then usually the metronidazole will clear it up. It shouldn't be a very expensive drug, if your vet would call it into someplace like Diamondback drugs online pharmacy they will mail it to you.

Are you getting trilotane rather than vetroyl for Bug? It could be a cheaper route.

hang in there!

[doxiesrock912]

Try canned pumpkin from the baking aisle. All natural, pumpkin only.
That did wonders for Daisy and I even used it to entice her to take her meds.

[mytil]

I certainly am glad he is doing a bit better. Is there still blood?

I am not sure but maybe some organization in your community may be able to help you out.

Terry

[Squirt's Mom]

Checking on ya'll this morning. I hope Bug had a better night and is feeling better today!

[bugsmom]

Hi, I'm Bug's mom, I've been a member here for quite some time. I found this group and some wonderful people back in 2014. I didn't visit much because I found it heartbreaking. Thanks to a blessing from God, A generous person helped pay for Bug's care. He was initially diagnosed with Canine Cushings, he deteriorated rapidly and was diagnosed with Diabetes as well. We almost lost him several times, it was a rocky road to be sure, in the early spring his cornea ruptured and he had to lose an eye, a few months later, the 2nd eye. I think if we had had a better vet this may not have happened.
It took awhile to get him stabilized, but he's done pretty well these last few years and has been favorite little wiggly butted dog! Now and then he has had some problems with vomiting. Due to high tryglicerides they switched his food and added fish oil. However, due to the low fat diet he now looks emaciated and has lost all of his body fat. The last two days he has been vomiting and not quite himself. I called the vet and explained and she changed his dog food again. I have already had him longer than I expected ..... is this the end? How do I know?

[labblab]

Hello Michelle, and welcome back to you and little Bug, although I am so very sorry that he's doing so poorly right now. You'll see that I've merged your new post into your original thread about Bug. This way, we'll be able to look back and remind ourselves of his diagnosis and treatment back in 2014.

Let me ask where things stand as far as treating either his diabetes or his Cushing's. Is he getting medication right now for either condition? In addition to the vomiting, are there any other acute problems going on right now? The more specifics you can tell us about how Bug is doing, the more helpful we can be. But once again, I'm very sorry that he is not feeling well.

Marianne

[bugsmom]

Thankyou so much, it looks like I have been on here longer than I thought. Since 2013, Well, for starters, Bug is on .6ml of trylystane, and 16 units of insulin twice daily. He has been doing remarkedly well for the last few years and I Have cherished each and every moment. Every so often he would have vomiting episodes, they usually passed in a day or so and he would be fine. Back in Oct he was having some an episode and he was due for a vet visit, they found that his tryglycerides were very high, so they switched him to science diet low fat formula, and added fish oil, the problem has been that now he is hungry all the time and has lost all of his body fat (looks very emaciated). He eats everything off the floor like a vacume cleaner! Yesterday he started vomiting again, but he still wanted to eat, so I"ve been feeding him, but now he has vomited up this morning's food, I called the vet yesterday and they said to switch his food to the science diet weight loss and mobility formula. But I think it might be to late .... he not doing well at all. I gave him a marrow bone just to see if he was interested and he was for a bit, but now he is lethargic, I'm scared, he had his insulin this morning, do I need to get his blood sugar up, or do I just need to accept that this is the end? I think he has live longer than most dogs with Cushing's and Diabetes..... diagnosed in 2013, but I am sure he had for a year before. I am a sobbing, snotty mess here!

[k9diabetes]

Michelle, can you test his blood sugar? With throwing up, it could be low.

[lulusmom]

Hi Michelle.

I am so sorry that Bugs is have such a terrible time of things right now. I think the best thing you can do is get him to the vet and have his blood sugars checked. When is the last time you had an acth stimulation test done to make sure that Bugs' cortisol is being well controlled? Is he getting his trilostane once a day or twice a day. Also can you look on the bottle and tell us what the actual mg dose is. .6 ml is a syringe measurement so in order to figure out how much Bugs is getting, we need to know the mg dose for a full ml.

Dogs with diabetes and high triglycerides are at a much greater risk of pancreatitis so I think a trip to the vet for blood labs would be an excellent idea. If Bugs' condition continues to decline, the problem could be life threatening. Dehydration can happen rather quickly in which case IV fluids should be started asap. I am armchair quarter backing here and I'm giving you worst case scenario because if it were my dog and I had no idea what his blood sugar level is, I would have him at the vet sooner than later. Do you do home testing and if so, what are his levels now? If you are a member of our sister site, k9diabetes.com, I highly recommend that you update your thread there so that you have additional and more appropriate feedback from members of that group who have a vast knowledge of diabetes. I do believe that if Bugs is not in crisis yet, he may well be on his way to one so the sooner you can get his blood sugar level tested, the better.

We'll be keeping fingers and paws crossed and saying prayers for your precious Bugs.

Glynda

[lulusmom]

Oh my gosh, Natalie. I am so glad to see you!

[Crazy Daisy]

I'm so sorry he's not doing well! Can you get him in to another vet for a second opinion?

[molly muffin]

My first thought was perhaps pancreatis too, or blood sugar being low causing the vomiting.
I definitely think he needs to be tested to see if either of those two is the issue.

You have done so well for Bug for many many years, I'm glad to hear that you have had this time with him. It may not be the end yet either, so get those checked out and see whats up with him. Something is causing this.

[k9diabetes]

As far as cortisol level goes, the symptoms you describe would be signs of low cortisol rather than high... but it's hard to say if it is related to cortisol at all.

I hope that treating it as pancreatitis or colitis and resting the digestive system, feeding a bland diet, and stopping any unnecessary supplements will improve things since he was eager to eat today.

If not and he gets worse again, he really must see the vet.

Natalie

[bugsmom]

I was wondering if anyone knows what the last days of a dogs life with Cushing's and Diabetes looks like? My little dog Bug has been sick these last few days, he is much better today, but I have started looking into euthenasia, what a racket, (whole other story there). Anyways, I don't want to be selfish, and I want him to be comfortable, HOW do you know when? Thanks to some wonderful people, I have already had him much longer than I had hoped. He was diagnosed with Cushing's in Dec 2012 or Jan 2013. It was not managed properly and he acquired diabetes. In the spring and summer he lost both of his eyes and has been blind ever since. He adapted remarkedly well. This winter has been very hard on him. Recently the Dr. put him back on science diet low fat formula due to a very high tryglyceride level. But he does not do well on this food. He is hungry all the time, eating everything off the floor and rug. He has lost most of his body fat and looks emaciated. When he eats off the floor like he gets hair in his mouth (we have a neufie mix that sheds a lot0, this leads to vomiting spells. The last spell he had like this was back in Oct. It didn't last long and he was fine. The spell he had this time lasted about 3 days, longer than normal and it totally incapacitated him. I really thought it was time, but he bounced back and is almost his old self this morning. Eating and drinking as usual, out to potty etc. I was worried with no fat on his body, and the cold that he had no reserves and called the Vet to see if we could change dog food, so we are going to try science diet weight loss / mobility formula. Maybe has more fat and calories the reduced fat? Will check labels when I bring home the new bag. Anyways..... how do I know when it is time? My family thinks it is now, but I'm not sure. Please help?

[bugsmom]

Thankyou everyone for your response. I am going to try to get Bug in for more tests next week. Money is a problem, and his Vet is a specialist so the prices are high. It has been well worth it to have my sweet Bug all these years.

[Squirt's Mom]

I knew Squirt was ready when she stopped eating and drinking. Even when I would syringe water or put food in her mouth it just dribbled back out - she was not interested at all. She was ready - I was not. But we had enjoyed a great life together and had been talking for a while about the the phase of her journey. I promised her when she had had enough, I would be brave and let her move on...and I did.

I think we all know our babies well enough to know and to understand when they tell us they are ready to move on and leave this life behind. If it were up to us, that day would never come - I would have fought to keep Squirt with me til *my* dying day if I could have but that would not have been fair to her. So I promised her I would listen and do as she wanted. Her utter lack of desire to eat or drink was her telling me it was time. Bug will tell you in his own way...and I know you are listening to him just as I listened to Squirt. No one else can tell us when that day is here, only our babies can tell us that story. So keep listening to Bug and no one else and you will know.

When that day does come, you family here will be with you.

You are a great mom; Bug knows this and trusts you implicitly.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[bugsmom]

Thankyou for your kind words, this is the hardest part, I have been thru it before with "family" pets. But Bug is my very own baby. I walked into pet store to buy Koi food, and there he was, I didn't have the money to buy him, but bought him anyway! From the very first time I saw him, he was MY dog, not the kids, not the ex, but mine, all mine. And it has been a love affair from the heart ever since. He is eating and drinking today. Going out to go potty. But you can tell the cold and loss of body fat are wearing on him. He is sleeping a lot in front of the heater. My daughter thinks the time is now, but I don't think so now that he is not throwing and back to eating again. I know the time is coming, sooner as opposed to later, I have had more time with him than I ever expected or dreamed of. God has been especially kind. He was born in 2004 it is now 2017. That is 13 yrs with the last 4 having Cushings and Diabetes.

[bugsmom]

Thankyou so much for all of your input everyone! I can test Bugs sugars here at home, but sometimes getting a spot to bleed enough is hard to find and I end sticking him repeated and I hate that. His last ATch was at the end of Oct, so he is due again. My only problem is that these tests costs about 500.00, my last visit in Oct cost 550.00, and on a fixed income I have to really save up. But I do want to get him to the vet in the week or so, so the house payment may have to wait. My biggest fear is that he go into convulsions or something. The Dr. said with high tryglycerides there is potential ..... that is why I was inquiring how to know when the end is near. I do not want him to suffer. The trylostane he is on is 40mg/ml, .6ml morning and night.

[molly muffin]

My experience was similiar to Leslies. When my molly stopped eating, didn't want water even, and then I started noticing what could be the beginning of seizures well that was it. I was never going to be ready but I also couldn't let my her suffer, so that was when I knew and then it became a matter of making the arrangements to have it done as soon as possible before anything got worse for her.

My heart goes out to you as we all understand how much our heart dogs mean to us.

[k9diabetes]

I am sad to report that Bug passed away Sunday, April 8, 2018, after becoming very ill abruptly the night before. He had been doing well since that last episode, definitely aging and slowing down, but lived every moment of his life to fullest and had a mostly wonderful five years once his Cushing's and diabetes were treated.

Natalie

[Chico's Mom]

So sad to hear about this. I am glad that Bug was doing well for the most part. It has been 3 years since Chico has been diagnosed, and his treatment plan seems to be going well for him. But I wonder every day when will be any signs that he is starting to fail. Prayers for you....

[molly muffin]

I am sorry to hear that you lost Bug.
My sincerest condolences on your loss.

[labblab]

Natalie, thanks so very much for letting us know about Bug. He’s now been added to our special memorial list of honor, and I’ll send a note to his mom in order to let her know, as well.

Always in loving memory of a very sweet and brave little boy.
Marianne