snowball-Chihuahua - has crossed the Bridge

[gabs]

hi i'm gabs,

our dog snowball who we have had since 6 weeks old is now 11 and has just been diagnosed with cushings. He is the picture of everything a dog with cushings has, big belly, hard breathing, drinks a lot, now is peeing and pooing in the house (when he didn't before), and is now having what we presume are mini fits and seizures. It is so distressing to see him going through this, however this only happens of a night time. during the day he's is happy old self. Although in the night he yelps and is now having seizures. He also developed an ulcer on his eye and just two weeks ago had to have it removed. :( although is he recovering well and doesn't seem to be bothered by it! Our issue is that he is so small that he is just over the legal limit of supplying him with Vetoryl and they said there is a chance he can just die suddenly. Just looking for some advice and if anyone has been through this? Or if anyone knows why he's yelping and taking seizures and if there is anything else we can do to help him. thanks so much!

[Spencersmom]

Hi Gabs! Welcome to the forim! You have found a wonderful family of friends who will walk this path with you to help you deal with cushings and everything that is involved. Be prepared to provide test results.....they will ask, and it's to better understand what is going on with your baby and determine best protocol for treatment.

Now having said that.... i want you to know that I also have a chi with cushings and has nightime seizures, grande mal where he cries out and others in a vast range of severity. What has your Vet done to get them under control? cushings aside, the seizures really need to be addressed first as well as the cushings!

My Chi, Spencer is in 10mgs Veteroyl once per day, 2.5 mgs Keppra every 8 hours and valium at 8:00pm and again at midnight.

With this, his seizures have been controlled, tho only recently. Has your Vet recommended a treatment plan for your baby?

[Dixie'sMom]

I'm sorry to hear that your little fellow is having health problems. Some of the experts will be along soon and they can answer your questions much better than I can.

I do remember another post with the same issue of the dog being too tiny for the smallest dose of Vetoryl and they were told that Dechra does make a 5 mg pill but it takes contact from your vet in order to get this. There are also compounding pharmacy's which make the medicine from scratch in any dosage, except for the dose that the name brand Vetoryl comes in (10, 30, 60, 120). For example, if Snowball weighs 4 lbs, you could start at a 1mg per pound of weight and your vet could prescribe 4 mg capsules to start. Your vet may not be aware that this is an option. I hope that eases your mind somewhat that there is treatment available to you if it is determined that is the best course of action for Snowball.

The others will be along soon to chime in with questions and suggestions. Again, welcome and I look forward to getting to know you and you little chi. :) (I have a chi grandpuppy :) )

[gabs]

Hi guys

thank you so much for your support! its currently 6am here in england and its been a very distressing night. snowball, or as we call him snob has has 2 seizures tonight one being the worse he has ever had, resulting in his neck turning and shaking. we are still monitoring him as we speak making sure he's ok and so far so good. :)

To answer a few of your questions, the vets plan is basically just to monitor him. As i said we have been given Vetoryl (10mg). The vet basically told us it could be the best or the worse thing we can do by giving him it. He is small only 3.8lbs so the vet is concerned he could have sudden death or many other side effects. we are now on the side of treating him just because we think he is suffering if we don't. But we are very concerned with the treatment. He was also given valium for the fits but that was before he was given the Vetoryl.

We have a pretty low income so in england we are on the PDSA which is basically free vet care, not saying that they haven't been great, they have! they have given us everything we have asked and treated him well as far as we are concerned! But obviously this do limit our knowledge of what type of cushings he has and his levels ect.

Has anyone had bad experiences with Vetoryl? or should we be more hopeful that it will work and he won't have bad side effects or die?

Thanks
Gabs and Snowball! :)

[labblab]

Hi Gabs,

I'm so sorry little Snowball is having such serious problems. First, regarding the Vetoryl, Suzie is correct that we have learned that in the U.K., Dechra (the manufacturer) will supply 5 mg. capsules to vets upon special request. This is because compounding is not allowed in the U.K., so there is no other way in which you can obtain a dose that is safe to give a small dog. If it were me, I would discontinue the 10 mg. capsule immediately and ask your vet to call Dechra first thing on Monday to ask about this. Especially if you are not able to perform the regular ACTH monitoring testing that is necessary to check the drug's effect on his cortisol, I think it is quite dangerous to give Snowball this high a dose.

Secondly, I also agree with Terry about the seizures. In the short run, I think it is much more important that you get them under control and depending upon the cause, I don't know that the Vetoryl will help with that at any dose. In fact, there is a possibility that as far as the seizures go, the Vetoryl may be hurting rather than helping. If the seizures are being caused by expansion of a pituitary tumor that may be causing Snowball's Cushing's, then the Vetoryl treatment may actually even hasten faster growth of that tumor. Also, if Snowball does suffer from any type of brain tumor, then having higher rather than lower levels of steroids in his body may actually be helpful in terms of lessening inflammation of the brain tissue.

Is Snowball no longer taking the valium? If not, it sounds as though the first priority is getting him stabilized on another anticonvulsant medication while you explore the 5 mg. Vetoryl dose. For the time being, I would stop the Vetoryl altogether and shift my attention to seizure control, especially if the seizures seem to be getting worse now that he is taking the Vetoryl.

Marianne

[Spencersmom]

Marianne is spot on about the seizures. We have our Spencer on 10 mgs vetoryl per day, which is providing only minimal control of his cushings. His vet doesn't want to go any higher because of the seizures. As bad as the excess cortisol is on his body, it does provide a degree of natural inflamation control in the brain.

Having cluster seizures is not good! Your vet really needs to address that right away. i give Spencer 2.5 mgs of valium in the evening and another 2.5 mg at midnight. This in combination with Keppra has finally allowed Spencer to have nights with no seizure activity. As little as Snob is, I don't know if you can get a compounded dose of the keppra low enough. Do they not allow any compounding at all there?

I know from experience how aweful it is to witness their seizures! Spencer cries out, is jerking and then will loose his bladder. He sleeps on a piddle pad with a towel on top just in case. It's exhausting and stressful for everyone!! I hope you can get your sweet baby's under control soon!

[gabs]

First I would like to thank Terry, Marianne, and Suzie for all your thoughtful words and input! It really means a lot that you are imparting your wisdom and lovely words to Snowball and me.

Just to let you know Snob is doing well today and is wagging his tail and being his normal self despite his bad night. From your advice we making an appointment for first thing monday morning to get some valium for his seizures and we decided to ask them to call Dechra so we can see if they will give us 5mg instead and then start him on that.

thank you so much again! any other advice would be welcome and I hope all your baby's are doing ok! praying for them all!

Gabs and Snowball :)

[judymaggie]

Gabs--my last Cush pup, Maggie, developed seizures as she got older. I found a great resource at http://canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com.
If Snob is having frequent (or long) seizures, your vet should consider a seizure medication. Phenobarbitrol is usually the first choice; correct dosing may take a bit of fiddling but it is important to get them under control.
I know how scary it is to watch a pup have a seizure. Maggie's first seizure was a tonic type and I thought she had had a heart attack. A big hug to you and Snob!

[molly muffin]

I just want to say hello and welcome you to the forum.
All the advice you've been given already is wonderful and I don't think there is anything that I can add to it. You are talking to those with experience with these issues and Terry specifically is dealing with the same things right now, getting control of those seizures is the most important part right now.

welcome again

[gabs]

Hi

Thank you all for your advice unfortunately it was too late for snowball. Last night he had a lot of seizures close together and then wouldn't eat. We took him to the emergency vet where they were concerned about his heart and lungs giving out. He was on oxygen and an IV with Valium. Howver he just didn't get any better. We brought him home for an hour hoping he would pick up however he didn't. He couldn't walk and couldn't lift his head. His breathing was very hard and laboured. We made the decision to not prolong his suffering and he went peacefully to sleep today and he is no longer in pain.

Thank you for all your support. We really appreciate it. I hope snob will meet all the other angel dogs in heaven.

Gabs xxxx
Rip snowball

[Dixie'sMom]

Oh Gabs, I am so sorry to hear this. It sounds like you made the right decision at the right time, but honey, I'm just so sorry. It's so hard to let them go. Yes, your little snob is running free at the bridge with all of the other angels waiting, waiting for us to arrive. We will all be together again one day. I will be keeping you close to my heart and in my prayers in the coming days. Please know that we are here for you, anytime and in any way.

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry to read this news today. Our fur angels at the rainbow bridge will watch out for him now. They welcome every new arrival at the bridge with their own special kind of puppy love. ;)

Fly free sweet boy, fly free!

[judymaggie]

Gabs -- my heart goes out to you. Cluster seizures really take a toll on a pup's systems. My Maggie and so many others will take wonderful care of Snob as he crosses over to the rainbow bridge.

[spdd]

My deepest sympathy is going out to you straight from my heart. I lost "mah boy" on Friday and it's been a little rough to say the least. We do what we think is best for our pups and you know you made the right choice. Take care of yourself the next few days. Will be thinking of you.

[molly muffin]

oh no, I'm so sorry to read that snowball is gone. It's so hard to have to make that decision to let them go, even when it is the right thing to do.
My heart goes out to you and your family.

My sincerest condolences,

[Spencersmom]

Oh Gabs!!! I am crying right now at the news of sweet little Snobs!! I just don't know what to say!

My heart goes out to you, please know that we all were pulling so hard for your precious baby to be able to pull thru this! You made the toughest, most loving decision any fur mommy has to make!

My biggest and lovingest hug for you right now!!

[babyblackbear]

I am so sorry for your loss, my little girl has cushings and I am just devastated!!!

[Robert]

So sorry for your loss. I'm sure my tommy and Tammy were there to greet snowball. Praying for both of you.

[Spiceysmum]

So sorry to hear about Snowball, my thoughts are with you.
Linda

[doxiesrock912]

Oh Gabs!
I am so sorry!
This disease is horrible and I don't understand why so many vets don't know enough or why more research isn't being done with the number of dogs that are diagnosed with Cushings everyday.

Rest peacefully Snob (Snowball).
Hugs to you and your family.

[jas77450]

I know I'm late, been off the forum for a short while and just saw this . I am sooo sorry for your loss. I have no words to take away the pain. My condolences to you and your family.
Jenny

[Silliam]

My thoughts are with you I bet all the dogs are up there whiz zing about in a big dog park

[Dixie'sMom]

I just wanted to pop in for a minute and let you know that you and Snowball are still in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs.

[scoora]

Gabs, I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your sweet Snowball.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs