New here - 5 yr old American Bulldog just diagnosed Cushings/Calcinosis Cutis

[Bella]

So just as I said, my 5 year old american bulldog, Bella, has recently been diagnosed with Cushing's. We just came back from having an abdominal ultrasound and there were no tumors found on her adrenal glands or anywhere in her abdomen for that matter. Her liver was also normal. I know it is typically a pituitary tumor (and that she would need an MRI to find) and this is what my vet thinks it is - which makes sense. I'm just wondering if we are jumping the gun assuming she has a brain tumor. Or I'm in denial? I don't want to put her through an MRI and the cost, and my vet thinks it isn't necessary. She has not had a blood test to confirm pituitary dependent Cushing's.

We are VERY hesitant to start her on any medication. I've read so many horror stories of side effects from the usual medications and I know that figuring out the right dosages are hard and an ongoing thing. I have also read that holistic approaches aren't typically successful.

Bella is very young to be diagnosed with the disease, she has just turned 5. Her breed also isn't one of the typical breeds prone to it and I haven't been able to find anyone else with an American Bulldog who had cushings. Her only symtoms are excessive water intake, excessive hunger and frequent urination. She does pant more than usual but not at all to the point where it's a "problem." She has no skin issues or hair loss. But maybe it's because she's so young?

I'm so confused :/ We want to help her by any means necessary, we are just unsure of what to do and if we are even convinced it's actually Cushing's

[Squirt's Mom]

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[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Bella! :)

I'm going to put my comments in colored print below -


So just as I said, my 5 year old american bulldog, Bella, has recently been diagnosed with Cushing's. We just came back from having an abdominal ultrasound and there were no tumors found on her adrenal glands or anywhere in her abdomen for that matter.

What does the ultrasound say about the size of the adrenal glands? Were they both enlarged, neither enlarged, or one larger than the other?

Her liver was also normal. I know it is typically a pituitary tumor (and that she would need an MRI to find) and this is what my vet thinks it is - which makes sense.

PDH, or pituitary based Cushing's is the most common form however the adrenal glands can go a long way in determining if it is indeed PDH. In PDH both adrenal glands are typically enlarged which is why I asked above about the size of the glands on the US. ;) Your vet should be aware of this - if not I would have to question their experience with Cushing's. An MRI is not usually recommended unless there are neurological signs present.

I'm just wondering if we are jumping the gun assuming she has a brain tumor.

The tumors associated with PDH are typically microscopic and remain that size for the life of the pup, causing no more problems than the usual cush signs. In a few pups, the tumor will start to grow becoming what we call a "macro" tumor and they do cause neurological signs. This is when an MRI may be wanted but not always.

Or I'm in denial? I don't want to put her through an MRI and the cost, and my vet thinks it isn't necessary.

At this point, I wouldn't have the MRI.

She has not had a blood test to confirm pituitary dependent Cushing's.

What tests has she had done to confirm the Cushing's diagnosis? If you would post the actual results of all the testing done so far that would be great!

We are VERY hesitant to start her on any medication. I've read so many horror stories of side effects from the usual medications and I know that figuring out the right dosages are hard and an ongoing thing. I have also read that holistic approaches aren't typically successful.

In the hands of a Cushing's savvy vet who has a good success rate treating with the chosen drug and an educated, diligent parent Cushing's can be managed. The vast majority of the "horror stories" come along when the vet doesn't follow the guidelines for the treatment used, or the dog is misdiagnosed and should never have been given these drugs in the first place, or the vet doesn't understand the disease and / or has little experience with it. Also bear in mind most folk don't talk about all the good times rather we hear their stories when things go wrong - meaning there are many, many success stories out there we never hear about. ;) We are here to help you make this as easy and successful as possible. :)

As for holistic approaches - we have not seen success with those methods here. But again - we have had members choose one of those paths then disappear and we never hear another word. So we don't know if their chosen path worked or not. Also, most folk who choose a holistic approach don't keep up the testing but simply go on how the dog looks and acts so no one knows if the method is actually controlling the cortisol or not.

Bella is very young to be diagnosed with the disease, she has just turned 5. Her breed also isn't one of the typical breeds prone to it and I haven't been able to find anyone else with an American Bulldog who had cushings. Her only symtoms are excessive water intake, excessive hunger and frequent urination. She does pant more than usual but not at all to the point where it's a "problem." She has no skin issues or hair loss. But maybe it's because she's so young?

Has Bella had what my vet calls a health sceen? It shows things like BUN, CHOL, ALKP, etc.

Have diabetes and hypothyroidism been ruled out? These are just two diseases that mimic Cushing's, sharing many of the signs.

I'm so confused :/ We want to help her by any means necessary, we are just unsure of what to do and if we are even convinced it's actually Cushing's

You are in the right place. We will help you all we can to decide if this could be Cushing's and if so, where to go from there. I know this is scary right now but try to relax and enjoy your sweet Bella as much as possible. She has no idea anything could be wrong - she just knows she loves you, that you love her and that's all that matters in her world.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Bella]

Thank you so much! I don't have all her lab results on hand because my vet gave them to me over the phone. I will get them from her as soon as I can. We were sent to a radiologist to have the ultrasound, after getting the results of all the lab work (which was how she diagnosed Cushing's, she just wanted the ultrasound to see if it was adrenal) and all the radiologist told us was that there wasn't a tumor in the abdomen and liver was normal. Our regular vet was supposed to call me with a full report from the radiologist but I haven't heard from her yet. I will post all the info I can when I hear from her.

[Bella]

My American bulldog will be 6 in May and was diagnosed with Cushing's about a year ago. My husband elected that we not treat her in any way for the Cushing's, other than some natural supplements (which I know aren't usually effective for Cushing's and I can attest to that.) From the time she was diagnosed up until about 2 months ago her symptoms stayed the same for the most part. She never grew the hair back from where they shaved her stomach for the ultrasound a year ago, and now she's losing a lot of hair. The hair loss is progressing rather quickly. She has also been eating feces from the yard, which started happening around the same time (2 months) My guess is that it's all stemming from her not being able to absorb the nutrition from her food. I am weaning her off of her dry dog food and onto chicken/veggies/fruits but so far that hasn't been making a difference - it only makes the feces more enticing I think. As its winter and I have a young toddler at home, I'm not able to get out and pick up the yard like I should (but I am working on that.) my question is - do these new symptoms sound like she may be living out her "about one year of life left" prognosis that our vet told us? I am so scared that I am just going to find her one day and she will be gone. My vet told us that in her experience, the dogs usually become very sick all of a sudden and then they're gone. I hate to think that this could be happening already. Any help/insight/experience you could give is much appreciated! Thanks!

[addy]

Hi and welcome. I am sorry to hear about your dog. Cushings is a slowly processing disease so I am not personally aware of a one year average life span of an untreated dog.

Do you know what tests were done to diagnose your dog? Would you happen to still have copies of the test results?
There are many diseases that can mimic Cushings and sometime other diseases can surface. For example the hair loss can be from Cushings but could also be from a thyroid problem.

As for the feces eating, my non Cush pup has had that problem and there is a debate on the exact cause. I have not seen a lot of members post about that being an issue with their dogs so I can't speak directly about it.

If you could tell us more about how that diagnosis came to be it would help us give more meaningful feedback. You mention ultra sound, what were the findings?

Also, what symptoms are involved other than the two written about today that concern you?

[Squirt's Mom]

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about declining health in an untreated pup into Bella’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

I wish your vet was more compassionate and hadn't scared you away from treating your sweet girl. :( My advice is find another vet who will tell you the truth - that cush pups can and do live out their normal life span and beyond with proper treatment. The younger dogs like Bella that I have seen left untreated do not go quickly - they suffer year after year as their organs slowly degenerate and other diseases like diabetes arise. I wish you could let her see another vet. ;)

[Bella]

It wasn't actually our vet who didn't want to treat Bella, it was my husband. Our vet told us that the average time a dog typically lived after they are diagnosed was a year. Our vet wanted to treat with Lysodren. My husband didn't want to risk any of the possible complications that came along with medicating her. I have tried to get him on board with treating her medically because I am the one at home with her who sees her going downhill (aside from being the one who cleans up all the urine in the house if she has accidents) but he doesn't want her on any medication. I don't have any of her specific lab results on hand but she had extensive blood work done that came to the diagnosis of Cushing's, then she had an ultrasound on her abdomen to determine if it was an abdominal or pituitary tumor. They ruled it was pituitary. I know the vet was very sure it was Cushing's and she definitely exhibits all the characteristics.

[Bella]

It started with excessive thirst -which resulted in accidents all over he house, excessive hunger which has gotten worse and worse, the excessive hunger lead to food aggressiveness - she will fight our other American Bulldog if I don't stand between them during feedings, she has weakened hind legs and a very round belly

[Squirt's Mom]

Tell hubby there is a poor old lady in ARK down on her decrepit old knees pleading with him to reconsider, tears streaming down her creased papery cheeks to splatter on the floor in an ever spreading pool. ;) If that doesn't work, jump up and down and scream! :p That would have probably been my first reaction which is probably one reason you have a hubby and I have a house full of dogs. :D

[Bella]

Hahaha! That was too funny! Trust me I have tried to persuade him! What gets me is the increased food aggression (especially with a toddler in the house.) It makes me feel better to hear that the younger dogs don't typically go quickly. Hopefully I can talk my hubby into at least trying out the Lysodren to see if it improves her quality of life. I have to think that ANYTHING is better than how she feels now. She is still my sweet girl and her personality hasn't changed at all, but I know she is suffering and our other dog is suffering by default.

[addy]

I hope you can work things out. As scary as the drugs sound, they do help so many dogs.

I realize it is a serious commitment and sometimes not everyone is able to do it.

We are always here for you either way.

[Renee]

I really do hope that the way to reach your husband is to show him the research and success stories about treating cushings. Even let him visit here and read all the success stories! Many dogs live for years and years with successful treatment.

If he just cannot or will not get on board with lysodren, perhaps he would be more comfortable with vetoryl? Although both drugs are very serious and one is no safer than the other, many people still feel that vetoryl is a less scary option.

Asking a dog to live with cushings symptoms for a time is okay, because it probably bothers us more than them... but, the long term organ damage eventually catches up. Your dog is young and could greatly benefit from treatment.

[mytil]

Hi and a belated welcome from me.

To treat or not is always a personal decision, but we want everyone to be informed either way so I have included this link - http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=195.

Please keep us posted.
Terry

[My sweet Ginger]

Hi Bella's mom,
Could it be that your husband's stance on not treating Bella is based on your vet's grossly irresponsible remark that Cushings dogs only live one year? In his mind that'd be putting Bella through too much with not much gain as I'm sure he loves her to pieces.
Your vet will rip off many happy years of his patient's lives with his knowledge on Cushings or lack thereof especially for such young dogs like Bella. I truly hope that you can turn your husband around with facts and start a treatment on Bella soon.

After everything was said and done with my pup with Lysodren I'd now go with Vetoryl even though the risks are the same.
With Vetoryl, you can try to minimize the risks by starting low and slow whereas you really don't have this option with Lysodren the way I see it. A young pup like Bella could really benefit from a proper treatment and she will have many more happy years with her loving family and Bella and your baby will be best friends for years to come.

I hope you will get your husband on Team Bella and start the treatment and have much more enjoyable and manageable life together for a long time.

[tryan8]

Hello and welcome to you and Bella,
I have a 8-1/2 year old Lab x Coonhound mix, Ginger, and she was diagnosed with Cushings in Dec. 2014. I am new to the website as well - but there is a wealth of information and support available to you here. I remember being told that my baby had Cushings and crying for days and just reading all the information that I could find on it. My Ginger has been on Vetoryl for 3 weeks and she is doing WONDERFUL. Her excessive drinking is gone, her ravenous appetite is gone - she now has her normal appetite back and well she never had any accidents in the house, but I do not have to get up in the middle of the night and let her out to go pee. She has returned to her normal, happy self and my house has returned to normal - well as normal as it ever was that is. Please have your husband read all the information and consider treatment - it really does make a difference in the quality of life for them. I had considered Homeopathic treatments and no treatment, but ultimately I chose to treat my baby and from my own experience I can tell you it is well worth it. Hang in there and keep us posted on your journey and know we are here for you and Bella.
Hugs,
Terry

[Barb]

Please see another vet for a 2nd opinion. I am sorry that your husband does not want treatment.
My cush dog was diagnosed when she was 10 and lived a great life to be 16 years old. I do wish vets would not say one or two years because that is not correct. She was on selegine daily. I know that is not used very much now but it did work for my dog.
I do hope you can get your husband to change his mind.

[molly muffin]

It wouldn't hurt to try vetroyl, if he doesn't like lysodren. The thing is that once the cortisol comes down some, hopefully the aggression will get better too.

[Bella]

So my Bella is yet again developing new and worsening symptoms, and again I am overwhelmed. We are not currently treating her with any medications (and please don't urge me to, it's not my decision) I took her to the vet yesterday with a very large, ugly wound on her back that I thought was from scratching hives open - but turns out what I thought were hives (she has battled with different allergies and hives since she was a puppy) is calcinosis cutis and from what I can tell has developed and gotten worse very quickly. Her skin has been fine up until now, besides increasing hair loss.

I keep hearing and getting told that dogs as young as her do not go quickly, and can live years and years with the Cushing's treated or untreated - but I am completely overwhelmed that she keeps coming up with new and worsening symptoms. It's very scary.

Our vet also said she now has a heart murmur - she didn't say what grade it was, just that it wasn't loud but that it was definitely there. It was at least loud enough for her to hear it while my 2 year old was running around the exam room! The last time she was at the vet was less than a year ago and there was no heart murmur then. Could heart murmur be related to Cushing's related?


The vet suggested trying Ketoconazole to treat her symptoms. Does anyone have any experience with this? She said from her experience, the drug either totally normalizes the dog (symptom wise) or it does nothing to help. It's so hard to know what to do.


I have taken the liberty and merged your post into Bella’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

[Squirt's Mom]

Sweetheart, from what I know the only thing that will take care of the CC is getting the cortisol back to normal range. Unless your vet knows something we don't about Ketoconozole, it won't have much of an effect on the cortisol but it will be very hard on the liver. If your husband would consent to letting a derm vet see Bella they may have some other options for her. I am so so sorry Bella must go thru this and that you must watch. :(

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so sorry that sweet Bella now has that dreaded calcinosis cutis, I also took the liberty and added calcinosis cutis to Bella's thread title so members that are dealing with calcinosis cutis will see this and can respond.

I am also including two posts from Marianne and I with regards to the ketoconazole:


Ketoconazole is rarely used for Cushing's any longer due to it's lack of efficacy and it's adverse effect on a dog's liver which is already being overworked from Cushing's.



Moving on to the ketoconazole, I checked with an endocrinologist specialist, Dr. David Bruyette, who has been very helpful with answering some questions for us here. We are just not that familiar with ketoconazole treatment, so I wanted to get some guidance from him. He has confirmed that it is an older treatment that preceded trilostane and as Lori has said above, in countries where trilostane is available, trilo is now prescribed more often because it is effective for more dogs and carries less risks of side effects such as the liver dangers associated with keto.

Keto treatment does require the same ACTH monitoring as does trilostane and Lyosdren because cortisol can be driven too low, but you do not have the same worries about electrolytes (potassium and sodium levels) going too low with keto because it does not affect aldosterone production (another adrenal hormone) in the same way as do trilostane and Lysodren. The trade-off, though, is that you have to watch the liver values very closely with keto due to the potential for liver damage. As far as the ACTH monitoring, you are looking for the same 1-5 ug/dl post-ACTH range as for Lysodren.

Now, what I am about to tell you is not to scare you into treatment, I just want you to be aware of what you are dealing with, ok?

The Calcinosis Cutis (CC) most likely is due to the Cushing's, and when Cushing's is the reason, the only way to treat CC is to lower that excessive cortisol to within the therapeutic ranges.

As you can see from the posts that I included, with Keto the monitoring tests still need to be done and the side effects can be worse than the regularly prescribed drugs (Lysodren or Vetoryl), so with this in mind I do believe that treatment with either Vetoryl or Lysodren would be most beneficial for Bella.

Whatever your decision is, to treat or not to treat, we will always be here for you and Bella.

Hugs, Lori

[Renee]

Just popping in, since I see that CC has been added to your thread. My pug had/has CC and we have been actively treating her cushings for the last 14 months with vetoryl.

I sure hope you will share this with your husband what I am about to say.

Most cushings symptoms are more of a bother to us than the dogs. The constant accidents or letting them outside, the water consumption, the hunger, etc. Some people and pets can live with these symptoms without treatment, because they just learn to manage them. I suppose the internal damage being done is a whole other issue.

That said, when it comes to CC - this can become a quality of life issue. Imagine the one lesion your pup has right now, then figure that it is more that likely those lesions will continue to spread to the point of possibly taking over a very large percentage of the body. They bleed, crack, go through many stages, and I do believe they are painful. They are easily susceptible to secondary infection and with a compromised immune system of a cush dog, they are even more vulnerable.

There is NO CURE for CC other than bringing the cortisol into therapeutic range, and keeping it there. Even when the cortisol is brought into range (using either lysodren or vetoryl), it can take months and months to heal. Yes, you will probably read of many treatments that can be used, such as DMSO or other topicals. No, they do not work. They may relieve some symptoms, but they will not heal, cure, or eliminate the lesion, nor will they prevent them from continuing to spread.

I am BEGGING your husband to reconsider treatment, if for nothing else than to get the CC controlled before it gets really bad.

[Bella]

Thank you for your responses. They are all very insightful and informative. I appreciate you all taking the time to help!

[Blues people]

Hi , if you read my post re: our Blue, maybe it will give you some insight into your husband's opinion of not treating. My husband too, did not want to treat- but I realized it was his grief, fear and lack of knowledge. Criticism doesn't work. We can only do what we can to bring them around to our view- and hence , what is best for our dogs. We struggle daily with our emotions- especially when Blue is having a bad day. My prayers go out for you all. Joan

[Blues people]

Hi was just wondering how you all are doing?

[Bella]

Hi there! I am terrible at keeping up here. I wish I could be alerted by email or something when there are posts! I was actually just going to post a new question. Bella's symptoms are all the same as they have been, the calcinosis cutis is completely covering her back but it doesn't seem to bother her? But she is suddenly losing a lot of weight. We usually jokingly call her "fat Bella" because she's had that round belly for years and has always been overweight. But probably in the last 2 weeks her weight has dropped dramatically to where you can see her entire backbone and ribs. She is now underweight for her breed/size but not so much that I'm rushing her to the ER. She is also eating MORE than she was because I started feeding her an extra meal a day. Any ideas of what could be causing the sudden weight loss?

[molly muffin]

I would take her in and get a cbc done, especially to check her glucose levels as diabetes can come on almost over night in cushing dogs and one of the first things you see is losing weight.

As for getting email notifications, you can, at the top of your thread, is a link marked thread tools, click that, you want to subscribe to this thread and the top box check receive email notifications.

Hope that helps.

[labblab]

I am thinking exactly the same thing -- I would worry about diabetes and getting the blood glucose level checked. That much weight loss in just two weeks is definitely a serious concern and really does need to be addressed quickly. What's the status of her thirst and urination? Diabetes can make those even worse than before.

Marianne

[Bella]

Thanks ladies! I was thinking diabetes but hoping it was something minor. Her thirst has increased but not dramatically. I will call her vet tomorrow to get her checked out.

[molly muffin]

How are things going? Did you get her checked for diabetes?

[Bella]

I'm looking for some words of wisdom from those who have been at this crossroads before.

We think it's time to have our sweet girl put to sleep.

Bella is 6.5 years old now, and was diagnosed with Cushings almost 2 years ago, though she had visible signs of the disease for about 6 months before she was officially diagnosed. It's the pituitary gland type.

She has never been medicated for the disease, my husband never wanted to try because the risk of side effects outweighed the benefits, I guess. She's slowly deteriorated over the last 2 years, it just seems to be happening more quickly now.

We have all the obvious, bothersome things to deal with, like cleaning up puddles of pee all day, but obviously that's more of a bother to me than to her. I can't fault her for it.

But everything else - the constant thirst and scavenging for water in every muddy puddle even after she's been given a fresh bowl of water to drink. when I let her out to pee which I have to do constantly all day, she eats feces from the yard (hers and our other dog's) because she's so hungry. I've had others tell me that that's not a symptom of the cushings but I know that it is because she feels so hungry. And she's also constantly throwing up the poop that she's eaten, which is horrible to clean up.

She has calcinosis Cutis and it's almost covering her entire body except for her belly. She barely has any hair left and the scabs come off everywhere and her back is ALWAYS bleeding. I know that can't feel good.

She also developed a deformity in her back leg months ago, we don't know if she hurt it or if it's from muscle weakness, but the foot is turned sideways (I call it her chicken foot because that's what it looks like) and because of the weakness in it its affecting her front legs now and they are starting to do the same thing. She falls a lot on the hardwoods/linoleum and I'm terrified of her falling down the stairs.

My husband is really having a hard time with the decision to put her to sleep. He knows she needs it and that she's suffering, he just can't seem to come to terms with it. I don't push it, I feel like when he's ready he will let me know. The only reason I'm more at peace with the decision is because I'm the one who sees her suffering. My husband works 10 hours or more a day so he's never here to see it or to clean up any of the messes.

I also don't know if all of this is reason enough to put her to sleep. I truly don't know what's best for her right now. I don't want to watch her die slowly or suffer until she's Just a shell of herself. I don't want to see her get worse or have to rush her to the ER one day and have to put her down in some traumatic way. But I also don't want to put her to sleep if she doesn't need it at this point? Like if she's not in pain? Obviously if she isn't able to walk it's another story, but should we wait until we get to that point? She's a big dog and there's no way I can "help" her outside to potty or anything like that. I'm also terrified that I'm just going to find her one day and she'll be gone alread. She has a heart murmur and her breathing can be eratic sometimes.

The last thing is that we also have a 3 year old son. I don't want to wait another year and have him be old enough then to know what's going on and be upset by her being gone. I'd rather do it now when he doesn't know any difference. Is that terrible?

I feel like I'm going on and on. It's just a really tough thing to know what to do. I also have no idea what to say to my husband to make him feel any better about the decision. Any words of encouragement are welcome and appreciated!

[Renee]

I'll apologize in advance for this.

If you aren't going to treat her, then please put her out of her misery. I cannot imagine how painful it must be to have her entire body covered with CC.

I do not think this has to be the end though. Treatment is overwhelmingly successful when done correctly. Maybe if your husband read some of the success stories on here, he would change his mind. The negative side effects of medication are most often seen when the drugs are handled improperly.

[Bella]

I didn't know CC was painful? She doesn't ever act like she's in any pain. That's one of the things that made me unsure of what to do. If the CC does cause pain that would make my husband more apt to put her to sleep sooner than later.

He is set on not treating her. Trust me I have been asking him for 2 years to try it.

Thank you for your input.

[Tammysmom]

My goodness. I can not believe what I am hearing. I would treat my Tammy without a second thought. I agree with Renee. If you do not want to treat or can not afford to, please do not let Gods creature suffer. Blessings

[Renee]

I don't want to guilt you, so please do not take it that way. These are difficult things to talk about.

Yes, I fully believe CC to be painful, it's just that most dogs are so very stoic about pain. They don't show it; they just accept what is and live every day. My own dog has (in remission) CC. I know personally what it's like to see and watch it. Imagine your own body covered with those lesions, bleeding, cracking, always new ones breaking through the skin. At best, it must be incredibly uncomfortable.

Long-term untreated cushings impacts the entire organ system in the body, slowly degrading each organ and causing damage. I would suspect your girl may get there before much longer. They do say that cushings dogs generally only live about 2 years. When treated, this is almost never true. But, the myth is born out of truth. Left untreated, yes, it can shorten the lifespan.

[Bella]

Thank you Renee.

I don't need anyone else's advice. I was not looking to be attacked on the subject. Obviously if I didn't care about my dog I wouldn't even be here or have taken the time to seek out advice from others who have been there.

I did not want to make a hasty decision about putting my 6 year old dog to sleep. My husband, not me, is not willing to treat her. Please don't make me feel any worse about any of this please. There are plenty of other users here who chose not to treat. Our vet gave us an initial prognosis of Bella only living for one year even with treatment.

Thank you for the responses, I don't need anymore, please. I would delete the thread if I knew how.

[My sweet Ginger]

I won't but please, don't prolong Bella's suffering. I'm begging you.

[molly muffin]

So, let me make sure I understand this correctly, Bella has had cc for 7 months now? And she hasn't been treated for cushings during that time.

The problem here is that cc is caused by high cortisol in the body, usually caused by cushings. Cushings is not a benign disease, French bulldogs, amercian bulldogs, boxers, are most prone to having cc occur it seems.

Without treatment the cc will not go away and as you have seen it will get worse. The cc is the calcium deposits coming up through the skin, causing sores and usually some infection in them too as they are prone to yeast and other bacteria infections.

The calcium deposits are not limited to what comes out of her body, it also starts to calcify the internal organs and sometimes the eyes. We've seen that as well on here. Once the skin becomes hardened, there is even less chance of trying to get it under control with the medication and her skin might always remain hard with no hair growing back. It can and usually does take months and months to get over cc and that is only the cortisol is lowered with medicine. If it isn't then it progresses as I've described.

Since cortisol itself in large amounts is also not benign, then there is a very good chance that after all this time that the internal organs have been affected in other ways, such as liver and kidneys problems occurring, sometimes resulting in failure of one or the other. There is no way to know without complete testing if this is happening or not.

The only time when it is recommended to wait and see how things progress is if there are no symptoms and further testing is being done to see if there is a different cause. Once the cc showed up, there was no real option other than to treat if you didn't want progression.

The medicine side effects are not worse than the disease, the disease is always worse as what it does to both the inside of the body and the outside is pretty devastating.

I don't think we've ever seen a dog with that bad of cc that isn't being treated, and probably why so many have reacted with shock. It just will not get better.

As you have also seen with Bella, the ligaments and tendons are weakened, leaving them prone to injuries, another direct result of high cortisol.

I would have to say that your husbands failure to take into consideration Bellas health has not done her any favors in being able to recover or live out her natural lifespan. Treatment is critical to continued good health in these dogs, without it they deteriorate, slowly or fast, it is always a progression down hill.

I don't know actually if at this point with the cc and cushings having gone this long without treatment (symptoms had started quite some time ago) if she can or could recover with treatment now. It is hard to say and I think it is beyond any of us to know. My guess, is that it might not. If you did elect to try to save her, then you'll be looking at a very long road ahead and it will be difficult.

That is probably about the best impartial information I can offer you and gives you the facts. It is up to you to now make the decisions that are in Bellas best interest going forward.

Never assume that because a dog doesn't show their discomfort that they are in fact comfortable. Open sores and hardening skin, having your insides turn to hard calcium that is invading your internal organs, doesn't sound like anything that would be comfortable to me.

[labblab]

Hi again, Bella's mom. From your last reply, I'm not sure whether you will rejoin us here or not, but I hope you will. Since you are asking us for our thoughts, based on what you have told us, I do believe it is already time to release Bella. Without treatment, there is no way in which any of her Cushing's-related problems can be reversed. So I believe the only humane option is to euthanize her now, before her pain becomes visibly unbearable. As the others have said, I do believe she must already be in pain now from the CC, if not from the mobility issues and internal problems, as well.

I can tell that you are hurt and offended by our members' begging you to please treat Bella. But here is some context for their pleas. You are correct that we have other folks here who choose not to treat, but most often this is because the expense simply makes it impossible, or the dog is aged and treatment might create greater discomfort from things like unmasked arthritis than from Cushing's symptoms that are not all that severe. I will be honest with you and tell you that I have never seen a dog as young as Bella who has been allowed to linger so long after degenerating so markedly without any attempt at treatment whatsoever. Perhaps part of the problem may be that your husband has been, and continues to be, shielded from the effects of Bella's disease.


My husband is really having a hard time with the decision to put her to sleep. He knows she needs it and that she's suffering, he just can't seem to come to terms with it. I don't push it, I feel like when he's ready he will let me know. The only reason I'm more at peace with the decision is because I'm the one who sees her suffering. My husband works 10 hours or more a day so he's never here to see it or to clean up any of the messes.


I know this may sound harsh, but right now, it is Bella who needs your protection and not your husband. She is 100% at your mercy. If need be, perhaps the time has come to leave the messes alone for your husband to see and smell when he comes home. Surely he can see Bella's skin bleeding, and surely he can see her foot turning sideways and he can see her falling down. If all this does not trigger his compassion for Bella, then perhaps he needs to see what a day in Bella's life (and your life) really looks like, with pools of pee and piles of vomit.

I am terribly sorry that nothing could be done to change your husband's mind earlier. But for Bella's sake, I truly hope you will put her needs first now and release her from the disease that is ravaging her body. That is truly the final gift that is within your power to bestow. Even if your husband is blind, I hope that you will see.

Marianne