Foster elder dog w/Cushing's

[Cattwood]

Hi! 'Greta' and I are new to this forum; she is a 15 yr. old female (I'm guessing she is Akita/Sib. Husky/Collie?) whose guardian went into a nursing facility due to dementia. I think 'Greta' was suffering from Cushings for a while but since her 'mom', MJ wasn't herself...poor dog was neglected. I was asked to take her when MJ moved into the facility that didn't allow big dogs. I work as a pet-sitter and am still taking care of a persian cat for a 100 yr. old man at the same place...when her family called me. Her power-of-attorney/friend noticed something wrong with the dog, but not being a dog person, wanted MJ to give her up 4 yrs. ago. MJ would forget to feed/water her for days at a time. The move to the facility liberated poor 'Greta'. When I took her to my home, she hadn't had a grass yard in years (lived in a condo with a concrete driveway), couldn't walk up steps and was in really bad shape. Having dealt with lots of dogs over my 32 yrs. of pet care, I saw a coat pattern that I knew wasn't right and took her to her vet. 'Greta' had lost 16 lbs. in 5 months, had tapeworms, skin lesions w/hair loss at the roots, extreme thirst & hunger, weak back legs, heavy panting...and urinated constantly. I suspected Cushings and her vet wasn't too accomodating....just prescribing antibiotics, food supplements, and told she 'was just old'. I have to say, her POA & MJ agreed to pay all vet bills, food/treats & grooming. I house her and bring her for visits. After 2 months of extremely minimal improvement, I switched her to my family vet...who practices holistics, as well as Western medicine & he's a registered Pharmacist! After 2 Dexx tests, and a pricey ultrasound....she has been diagnosed with Atypical Cushings. I read about the 2 Cushings drugs and between us, my vet suggested Flaxseed w/lignans (100 mg. 2x day), fish oil caps (6,000 IU day), 6 mg. meltonin am & pm, egg shell membrane tabs am & pm (substitute for glucosamine & chrondritin), and a probiotic chew twice a day after meals. New is Denamarin for elevated liver enzymes. She rebounded quickly after the worming, and her coat came back nicely with the groomer using Head & Shoulders w/selenium shampoo (again, vet suggested) and the supplements. We tried Rimadyl but her liver couldn't tolerate it. She had a seizure while on it after only 3 days. It has been 16 months since she came to live with us..... and even tho she is stiff legged, she can run a bit with our dog (a female GSD named 'Tess') and chase birds! Her panting is better, as is the drinking & eating but the incontinence is worse. She has the skin of a puppy, but had 3 seizures again last Wed. night......9pm, 11 pm and again at 2:20 am. Vet prescibed valium in case one hits her again.(Vet suspects a pituitary tumor). Bloodwork on Friday shows liver enzymes up again so we are starting Denamarin again (4 months ago she developed liquid stool) and we stopped it. Could have been too big a dose to start so making doses 1/4 to start for a week, then upping it a 1/4, etc. More bowel movements but not loose. Just when I think I have a grip on caring for her, something new pops up! Poor thing is a very docile girl, and she LOVES visiting her MJ.....actually the residents flock to her, going in & out, and her MJ sleeps during their private visits. She still has a zest for life so we'll continue to motor on through. I am glad to find this site! Thanks for providing it! :D

[jxeno13]

Hi and welcome! I'm sorry about the lady MJ having to give up her baby, but so nice of you help her and make her feel more comfortable by taking care of her baby, Greta. I know that must be hard on everyone, including you. You can't treat Cushing's with holistic medicine or Chinese Herbs. Your Vet should already know that since he is a Pharmacist, and is also a Western type Vet. It just doesn't work that way. Poor Greta needs some Vetoryl(Trilostane)...and perhaps she can have a good quality of life for her senior years with you, if you plan on keeping her. It sounds like you're concerned and taking very good care of her..I commend you for that! I know it's a hard journey, but worth it in the end. What tests did they do on Greta? Could you post them? Good luck and thank you again for taking in Greta. :D

P.S. Seizures is another side effect of Cushing's. :( Do you have any idea what her cortisol level is? Did you have a LDDS test done? An ACTH Stim done to tell her cortisol level? If so, could you post them? She's probably had Cushing's for a very long time.

[goldengirl88]

All I can say is this poor wonderful creature. It is a pity her caretaker became ill and she suffered such neglect. Thank you for helping her. She has so many issues going on when she was tested for Cushing's were these issues going on? If so it can skew the numbers on the test. She is having some Cushing's symptoms, but Cushing's dogs gain weight, not lose it. Not sure if the weight loss is from the parasites, and/or neglect. Has she been tested for diabetes and thyroid problems? They have a lot of the symptoms of Cushing's. Are you saying the Denamarin gave her diarrhea? Would you please get copies of her testing and post the abnormal numbers for us along with the reference scale from the lab as they are all different. We need to see the results to better help you and understand what is going on. That is the first step. What did the ultra sound show? Were the adrenals enlarged? How about the other organs, gallbladder, spleen, liver? Please provide us with that information. There are so many issues for this baby that I think you would do best to tackle them one at a time. So the first step is to please provide us that information, then we can help get you thru what needs to be done. Again I am happy this dog is getting care,and a loving home with you for whatever time it has left. Was a blood panel done? If so please post results. This baby deserves some big hugs because if it truly has Cushing's not having water, and food at times would have been devastating for her. Cushing's dogs must always have water available to them. I hope you can manage to help her health, and just love her as this is heartbreaking. She is at an age when all the diagnostics that may need done, may be too much for her with what has already happened. That being said I never give up on anything, and don't want you to think I am saying give up on her, as that is far from the truth. It becomes a quality of life issue for her. I would concentrate on improving that the best I could. God Bless you for helping her.
Patti

[Cattwood]

Thanks, ladies! I will pull out 'Greta's' test results and post what I have.....she has been tested (twice in fact) for diabetes and is not diabetic thus far. Her initial weight lose (in Oct. 2012-Jan. 2013) of 16 lbs. was when her guardian, MJ, went into the hospital for lung surgery. On top of all this chaosis, 'Greta' was breathing second hand smoke! MJ's son came in from NJ (we live in Akron,OH) to help his mother and he knew(/knows) absolutely nothing about dogs but did feed & water her on a regular basis. He noticed her incontinence and took her to MJ's vet, where he received antibiotics for a 'possible' bladder infection. Nothing else was done for her until I took custody of her. I have done a lot of research and reading on Cushings in dogs and the only one thing I have found....is that nothing stays the same or can be treated the same for any dog! Everytime I think I have a handle on this, something else pops up with her. I do have to say, since we started caring for her.....she is more content and confident. From what I have been told by MJ's neighbors, friend/POA and her housekeeper....'Greta' was extremely unsocial & not trained to even leash walk. They tell me that she did a complete 180 personality-wise change in Sept. 2012. My vet says that makes him think she also has 'doggie-alzheimer's' (canine cognitive dysfunction). She is not a nervous girl, walks well on lead now and actually goes up to people on her own. She lived with MJ and another dog initially when she was a pup, but the other dog was elderly and 'Greta' was boarded a lot (3 weeks out of every month) for several years. I have noticed symptoms lessening when put on the flaxseed, melatonin,etc. My vet and I discussed the 2 Cushings drugs but I have decided against them. I don't want to shorten her life on cancer drugs, which is what these 2 meds are.....and the cost is exhorbitant! Her 'mom', MJ is in a facilty that costs a lot and her POA, though a nice person, might not want that kind of money spent for these drugs. I have been assured that 'Greta' isn't suffering, and we are treating her high liver enzyme levels again with the Denamarin. Yes, it caused her to have bad diahhrea and we are 'working' our way up to the full dose slowly, so we can keep her weight up. Being a big girl, and arthritic, excess weight isn't good either. Thanks for the site...will post her tests results asap! :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and a belated welcome to you and Greta,

Since Greta is experiencing symptoms of dementia or canine cognitive dysfunction, I would ask the vet about treating with Selegiline/Anipryl. Besides Vetoryl, Selegiline/Anipryl is the only other FDA approved drug for canine cushing's. With Cushing's, unfortunately, it's efficacy is quite low, Anipryl is effective in less than 30% of dogs. Anipryl success rate for CCD is higher:
Studies using Anipryl® for the treatment of CDS have shown that after 30 days, 80% of dogs showed improvement in overall cognitive response compared to pretreatment evaluation and improvements in individual clinical signs also were observed. after 60 days, 77% of dogs showed improvement in overall cognitive response compared to pretreatment evaluation. after 30 days of treatment, 76% of dogs showed improvement in disorientation, 72% showed improvement in interaction with family members, 60% exhibited improvement in activity or sleep-wake cycle, and 55% displayed improvement in housetraining.

Here's the link where this information was found: Anipryl® (http://www.lbah.com/word/anipryl/)

The treatment with melatonin and flax lignans takes around 6 months to see improvements. We have info regarding this treatment in our Resource Thread: Congenital adrenal hyperplasia-like syndrome/ Hyperestrinism/ "atypical Cushing's" ( http://www.k cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198)

If you have any questions please do ask. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum. What a sweetie you are to take in Greta. It sounds like she more than needed you to come into her life. I'm sure MJ did her best, but it's just very hard when dementia comes into play.

A question, you said she had atypical cushings, which would mean that the cortisol is not high. Then mentioned pituitary tumor, which would mean the cortisol is high. Do you remember or can you check and see what her cortisol levels might be, this would be via an ACTH test, if you have the paperwork. Or if you did an LDDS test, then that can tell you if pituitary sometimes.
Lignans and melatonine might help her, especially with atypical as that is what is prescribed, they won't hurt her so that is okay.

There are many herbal medicines that can help with a lot of symptoms, and over all health, so I understand going that route with a 16 year old, larger dog. Yes the testing is really expensive.

Little bit concerned about the seizures and three happening like that. Did the vet think the pituitary has grown into like a macro? (it was at this point that you had mentioned the pituitary tumor). Does Great exhibit any sort of behavior such as getting stuck in corners, seeming confused, not comfortable eating from a dish with her head down, for instance?

The worms could easily have been the cause of the weight loss as that is a fairly common symptom with worms.

So glad you found us to and very happy you gave Greta a home.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I too am concerned about the seizures and putting a 16 year old dog thru all the diagnostics. Like Sharlene said I am wondering if this is a macro tumor and maybe prednisone is needed?? Again I think you are wonderful to help this dog with all of its issues. You certainly are it's guardian angel. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

How is everything going. I am hoping poor Greta is doing well. Thank you again for caring and giving her a home. Blessings
Patti