Please help need diagnosis opinions

[weazie189]

Hi I am new here, my name is Paula I am hoping you can all help and advise me about my 11 year old yorkshire terrier Willis, We have suspected cushings for a while now, pot belly, starving hungry and eating really well, drinking more and peeing more, ( never used to eat much in his whole life) he also has slight hair thinning and a few hard warty lumps.

I took him to the vet as he sounded very congested, whilst in the vets he started to go weak on his legs, and started falling over???????
he was kept in, for x-rays, bloods etc,
Results were the x-rays showed he has an enlarged heart, the bloods showed fatty deposits and, a problem with the liver. I think vet expected to find a nasal tumour.

We decided to watch him for a few days, then to discuss to do the cushings blood tests, which we were dreading as he is the worst patient EVER.

he was fine over next few days, congestion stopped and his legs were fine, although no jumping on furniture or going upstairs,so we only tested his urine which seemed fine and concentrated.

he has now had 2 more episodes of losing his balance and weakness in his legs,the first didn't last long but the second episode was a few hours of weakness, and then right as reign again, He was weak on both front and back legs, knuckling on the front, panting has also started, we went back to the vets yesterday (he was fine then)and he was kept in for observations, my vet thinks he probably has got cushings, but doesn't think his legs giving way on him adds up as it's not only his back legs but his front also. she said cushings only affects the rear legs, and she doesn't think the intermittence of the attacks are a symptom of cushings, she thinks there is also a neurological problem going on, and has referred me to a specialist,

I am not convinced that it is anything else other than cushings, and have looked on lots of websites, and have noticed people mention weakness in front legs aswell as the back. also saying their dogs were weak one minute fine the next??????
What do you all think ????
please can you help in any way you can,

[Trish]

Hi Paula

Welcome to you and Willis, sorry you had to look for us but now you are here we will help you in any way we can.

So Willis has not had any testing done for cushings yet? There are many experts on cushings testing on this forum, unfortunately I am not one of them.

But to get the best advice we can out of them it would be really helpful if you could type out the results you have so far of all testing done. You mentioned liver etc so you could put in those tests that are abnormal with the laboratory reference ranges that will be listed on the results form.

Has Willis been in good health up until recently? Cushings is not a fast acting disease and there is no need to rush into treating it until you get a very clear diagnosis from the appropriate testing.

I think your vet is doing referring you to a specialist if they think something neurological is going on, it is a little odd having intermittent symptoms like that so if it was me that is what I would want to do to. Willis might just need a checkup with specialist then if it was decided cushings was worth persuing then they can often do that in conjunction with your local vet.

Others will be on to welcome you and add their opinions :)

[labblab]

Hello, Paula, and welcome from me, too. Trish has already gotten you off to a fine start, so I will just chime in to agree with both her and your vet:


he has now had 2 more episodes of losing his balance and weakness in his legs,the first didn't last long but the second episode was a few hours of weakness, and then right as reign again, He was weak on both front and back legs, knuckling on the front, panting has also started, we went back to the vets yesterday (he was fine then)and he was kept in for observations, my vet thinks he probably has got cushings, but doesn't think his legs giving way on him adds up as it's not only his back legs but his front also. she said cushings only affects the rear legs, and she doesn't think the intermittence of the attacks are a symptom of cushings, she thinks there is also a neurological problem going on, and has referred me to a specialist,

It does sound to me as though Cushing's is a strong possibility, but I agree that there seems to be an additional neurological component at play. It might be the consequence of an enlarging pituitary tumor that is also causing the Cushing's symptoms, or it might be something additional and different. However, intermittent weakness/collapse is not typical of the muscle wasting associated with elevated cortisol. That type of wasting does not recur and remit: it produces a constant state of muscle weakness. So I do think you will be well served to consult with a specialist so as to plan the best diagnostic course. Since the two blood tests for Cushing's can both return "false positives" in the presence of other, nonadrenal illness, I think it will be good to have the aid of a specialist to sort out which type of testing should come first. Please keep us updated as to what you find out.

Marianne

[weazie189]

Thanks for your replies, willis' health has been fine apart from the cushing symptoms that have progressed over the last year, including his inability to jump up onto the sofa etc:

I don't have any test results, I was shown the vile of blood which had a very fatty layer on the top, and the x rays showed an enlarged heart with fluid around it.

I will go ahead with the specialist appointment, but i am worried about how far i can go with this, if they want to do an mri scan, i won't be able to go ahead with it as his insurance won't cover the cost :(

[labblab]

I surely do understand your worry about both the testing and the results. I have a non-Cushpup now who developed seizures of unknown origin about three years ago, and I lost my own Cushpup to what we believe was an expanding pituitary macrotumor. But due to both the expense and the fact we would not have pursued aggressive treatment in either case, we did not have MRIs done, either. The good news for my seizure girl is that she has been totally controlled ever since starting on phenobarb. So even though we don't know the cause, we have been able to treat the symptoms.

Even in the absence of imaging, hopefully the specialist can give you a better assessment as to possible causes of Willis' loss of balance. It may be something that we have not even considered, like an inner ear problem or some seizure-like event. Even if it is just to rule out certain things, that may be a help in moving forward.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. So sorry that your baby is having troubles. you were speaking of the fat on top of the blood. Cushings dogs have a large amount of fat mobilization in their blood. This can cause high readings on triglycerides, and can make them prone to pancreatitis. Many of the symptoms you described sound like Cushings. If your dog has other issues going on when tested it can skew the results. Have you had any diabetes tests or thyroid panels done? Cushings can make the rear legs weak from muscle wasting. I agree with Marianne that you should check out anything neurological that could be indicative of a macro tumor. Not trying to scare you, but some dogs do get them on their pituitary. Could you give us a brief health history, weight, and age of your dog. I would also be looking for an ultra sound on the abdomen, after the neurological visit. Blessings
Patti

[weazie189]

Hi he is a very small yorkie he weighs 4kg, (like picking up a brick lol) he is 11 years old, and his health has been absolutely fine until symptoms started last year as i have described, no other tests have been done other than i have mentioned

[labblab]

Just talked to a diabetic friend of mine, and it suddenly occurred to me to wonder whether Willis might be having episodes of low blood sugar causing his staggering and weakness. Just another crazy thought to throw out there, but again, this is why I'm hoping the specialist may be able to sort through scenarios that are less or instead more likely.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Marianne could be onto something as my friend has a real small dog a few lbs. and it get low blood sugar and gets like it will fall over, she gives it honey or the condensed milk in a can and it gets ok in a short while. It would not hurt to try a little.Blessings
Patti

[weazie189]

the vet took his blood pressure yesterday and it was a little high, but he was stressed out as hates the vets, yorkies do get low blood sugar, so worth a try

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If it is low blood sugar episodes, that wouldn't how up on the testing unless caught at the exact moment. However, you could check by putting a small amount of karo syrup onto the gums when he has a falling over episode and see if there is any immediate recovery reaction.

The other possibility as some have mentioned is the macro tumors, which would require an MRI to figure out definitely, but if all other options are ruled out, then that is a possibility. Most of the time, MRI cost are out of the range to get done, unless there is a university or something that can do them cheaper. CT might be cheaper than an MRI. A high blood sugar could be indicative of diabetes so that too has to be looked into further.
Yorkies are just so cute and precious. I love their personalities.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[weazie189]

Hi all,

I have noticed a pattern in Willis' funny moments when he gets dizzy and his legs give way, each time he has either been stressed or over excited,
I actually asked the vet the other day if she thought his enlarged heart was causing these strange episodes, with a lack of oxygen to his brain, she wasn't too convinced and said it would usually cause a fainting episode.
His first episode actually happened in the vets, (he hates going there) the second time was a visit to my mums who has 3 dogs (very excited) third time, when a friend came to visit us (very excited) 4th time when we were leaving the vets to come home, 5 days later the 5th time (today) a visit to my mums again.

What do you all think coincidence or is there a pattern here???? Oh he has still been weak on his back legs, but the suspected cushings explains that

[molly muffin]

Blood pressure can cause that I think too. As well as the sugar possibility.
Maybe heart, but that would be associated with the blood pressure. It does seem to indicate a pattern.

Sharlene and molly muffin