My sweet angel Maya being tested for Cushings tomorrow.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Maya is a 6 year old Samoyed. She has never been a well dog and I have spent thousands of dollars on her over the years. She does not have a soft palate due to a birth defect and has various nose/throat issues that are just too convuluted to type out. She is prone to urinary tract infections which I have under control with cranberry. It has been two years since her last one. She has been panting more than usual for the last few months and is weak in her back legs but has always been that way.
A month ago I brought her to my vet for a bloodshot eye. I did steroid drops twice and a culture and a blood panel to look for a deeper infection. Everything was normal except her ALP level was 220 with normal being 5-131. This concerned my vet as in her annual exam last year it was 76. So I waited a month and just retested last week. Last test the ALP was 278. My vet recommended a liver supplement for a month and if it continues to rise then to do a thyroid panel and a low dose dexamethasone suppression test and an ultrasound. She thinks it wise to look for hormonal problems because she feels Maya presents as a beginning stage cushings dog. I cannot wait a month so I am taking her in tomorrow for the thyroid panel and low dex test.
The reasons why she thinks it could point to cushings are numerous. Slight weight gain. Some food aggression. Increased panting. Recurrent UTI's. Red eyes and red gums. Lethargic and hind leg weakness. I wii not get results till Tuesday on the first test and thyroid can take a week.
I am so scared I am finding it hard to breathe. I haven't eaten since Monday as my stomach is in knots. I can't stop crying. I have done lots of reading and a lot of sites say it's a death sentence with 2 to 3 years life expectancy. I found this site today and decided to post as I just feel all alone in my worry. I can't imagine life without my dog. I would not choose chemo drugs under any circumstances and am worried about the effects of trisolane. I know it may seem I am getting ahead of myself here but I can't help taking things to worse case scenarios. I feel so overwhelmed with fear and sadness over just the thought of her having cushings. Any support or advice would be appreciated.
~Angelique

[pansywags]

Angelique, I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here seeking advice for your beautiful Maya. You have come to the right place and you are not alone. There will be a lot of smart, experienced advice coming your way (I learned more here than I did from my local vet and a local Internal Medicine Specialist combined). First thing to do is make sure you have copies of all Maya's test results - people here can help interpret them.

I offer you two comments hoping that they will reassure you in the short term: like you, I came here terrified of the potential medical treatments for Cushing's but I came to understand from reading about other people's experiences that in many cases, Cushing's can be treated with the goal of improving the dog's quality of life for quite a few years. It takes a knowledgeable vet (or one who is willing to work with an IMS) and a watchful owner, but it can be done.

Second, Cushing's typically progresses slowly, so there is no need for immediate panic. Diagnosis may take some time as there is no one test that is definitive, and you want to be confident in the diagnosis before choosing a course of action.

We all understand your worry and fear. Maya is lucky to have such a caring advocate.

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
Welcome to you. Please don't feel alone any longer. We have all been where you are, and cried and worried ourselves sick too. I can tell you my Tipper's journey will be at two years in August. There is no time line etched in stone. If you manage your dog well on the drugs that are currently used, trilostane and Lysodren you dog could live out it's natural life. I know all this sounds scary, but if not for these drugs my Tipper probably would not be here. She gets really bad symptoms really fast when off her Vetoryl. It is an individual choice which we support either way, to treat or not. You will gain knowledge about this disease here and that will enable you to be an excellent advocate for your baby. The people on this forum are fabulous, and we all support one another so please do not feel alone again ever! When you get your testing done,you will want to always keep copies of all tests in you own file. We will then want you to post the abnormal results so we can see what is going on. You said your dog had never been well. Could you explain a little? When dogs have other issues going on while tested for Cushing's it can skew the numbers,band create a false positive. You dog does seem to have many symptoms, but other diseases also have similar symptoms. Has your dog been checked for diabetes? I know you are getting a thyroid panel done and that is great. Your vet seems to have all the ducks in a row and an understanding of the disease, which many do not have so that is a big plus in your dogs favor. I am looking forward to seeing you post on the forum, and hearing about your baby. Blessings
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Angelique,

Welcome to you and Maya! Maya sure is a gorgeous girl and is lucky to have such a loving and wonderful Mom.

Cushing's is not a death sentence for a dog and it progresses at a snail's pace. Success in treatment depends on keen owner observation and a vet/IMS that is knowledgeable and experienced in treating dogs with Cushing's.

Lysodren/Mitotane and Vetoryl/Trilostane are generally the two medications used to treat Cushing's. Both can have adverse side effects and one is no safer than the other. Lysodren has been around for many, many years and for decades it has been used, off label, for Cushing's and still is. Trilostane/Vetoryl was FDA approved for the treatment for Canine Cushing's in 2008. These are strong drugs but life savers for our dogs with Cushing's, please do not fear using one of them but a pet parent does need to educate themself with the protocols of treating a dog with Cushing's. Here are some handy links to help you understand canine Cushing's better: Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)

Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185)

Lysodren loading Instructions and related tips (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181)

Strong symptoms do play a huge part in a Cushing's diagnosis, but a lot of these same symptoms are shared by other non-adrenal health issues such as diabetes and hypothyroidism, have these been ruled out? How much does Maya weigh? Is she taking any other medicines/herbs/supplements? If you could get copies of all tests that were done on Maya and post any abnormal values here that would be a great help to us.

Cushing's is one of the most difficult diseases to diagnose and unfortunately, it is also one of the most misdiagnosed. There isn't just one test that is conclusive, so a vet has to rely on more than one diagnostic and validation test.

The LDDS, ACTH, UC:CR, and/or an ultrasound are the diagnostic tests used to help diagnose Cushing's. With the LDDS test false positive results can be created by nonadrenal illnesses, so if this were me, since Maya has other health issues going on the ACTH stimulation test would be the test I would have performed first.

If you have any questions at all please do not hesitate to ask them.

Hugs, Lori

[pansywags]

I want to add that one of the things that plays into that 2-3 year life expectancy is that Cushing's is often discovered in older dogs. At 6, Maya has the benefit of relative youth on her side.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you for both your posts. It is appreciated. This might be a long story to explain why she has never been a healthy dog. Maya is my first dog. I got her a few months after my 21 year old baby kitty died of kidney failure. I was lonely. Maya is a runt. Her own mother rejected her and she was put with another dog that had younger puppies. She was very small and had breathing issues from the get go. She would wheeze and gurgle every now and then and always seemed hot with panting. In her first year she had numerous infections. UTI's and eye infections and red gums and eyes. People would ask me if my dog was sick and I would get mad and say no. Denial I guess. I had no point of reference on what was normal for a dog. She was also moody and sometimes seemed depressed. My vet at the time was an expert at making me feel guilty and was so unimpressed when I got Maya after Shadows death.
At one year of age just days after her birthday we were in the dog park and she was chasing another dog and did a somersault. Then I noticed she wasn't breathing very well. It sounded like a severe cold. For 3 weeks I kept taking her to the vet and telling her that she can't breathe and I think she might suffocate. I kept getting told it was a virus and to wait it out. The last time I took her back again my vet seemed annoyed with me and wouldn't even touch my dog. I demanded her medical records and told her that she was the worst vet I had ever experienced and that she should be ashamed of herself. Three weeks of staying up with her every night crying wondering why she can't breathe.
I took her to another vet that day and paid him a thousand dollars for numerous tests. He said she didn't have a soft palate and that she needed to go to The University hospital immediately. Since she hadn't been eating much for 3 weeks she was also anorexic. She spent a week in that hospital and after spending thousands of dollars they found a tree nut stuck inside her nose. Since she doesn't have a soft palate it got stuck in there while she did that somersault. They found many things wrong with her besides the obstruction. Cricopharyngeal dysphasia. Hypo plastic soft palate. Narrowed naso-pharyngeal region/opening and left laryngeal paralysis. They also gave her a feeding tube as she was so skinny. The vets there told me she would not live a normal lifespan and that she was at risk for many complications.
I took her home and nursed her back to health but she was very depressed. I decided to get her friend and got another Samoyed named Griifin. This made my precious angel so happy and they love each other so much. For the last5 years she has done really well considering. She was still getting UTIs with some not showing outward signs. I just knew cause she was itchy on her vagina and had discharge. She has always been slow on the stairs and sometimes sits down when trying to poop but I thought she just had sore hips and was giving her glucosamine. She also does not blow her coat like a normal Samoyed and that does not help at all with her getting hot and panting. The last few months I have noticed a few changes with her. Bloodshot eyes. More panting than normal. Licking her front leg for hours at a time. Not wanting to walk as far and having more trouble doing stairs. She is also kicking her back legs a lot while sleeping and shifting around a lot like she is uncomfortable. Also the stuff I mentioned in the first post. I ended up firing the second vet I had gone to as well as he had no compassion and insisted on yearly vaccinations. I refuse to vaccinate an unhealthy dog and she has had none since her first year booster shots. It got real ugly and he said I was ignorant for thinking outside his 30 plus years experience. I love the vet I have now. So much compassion and caring. Only asked me to do a rabies titre and supports me in my choice to not vaccinate. Takes the time to answer all my questions and has experience with cushings.
Sorry for the long post but I wanted to explain why my precious Maya is a special dog. I always say she is a limited edition. I love her more than my own life and will do anything for her. I have probably spent over 10 grand on her vet bills in 6 years. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat. So after almost losing her once the thought of having cushings is just too much for my heart to handle. I will get a copy of the two tests when I get results. Thank you so much for listening.
~Angelique

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

To answer the questions from Harley.
She has not been tested for diabetes.
Testing the thyroid tomorrow.
The only abnormal test was ALP levels which I posted results for in my first post.
She weighs 55 pounds but is a small Samoyed.
I give her glucosamine and cranberry supplements.
I will post tomorrow's testing when I get results.
Thank you.

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
The first thing I will say is you are a wonderful mom to this baby. She has had many issues. The ones you described about her larynx etc. Peaked my interest as my Tipper has had breathing problems from the onset, and has tracheal issues where she sound like she is struggling to breathe. This girl of yours has had so many things go wrong, that I salute you for sticking right with her and never giving up trying to help her. This tenacity will certainly take you further than anything else on this journey. The licking of the front legs is something my Tipper does off and on. At one time she started pulling her hair out on her front legs. Thank goodness she does not do this often. I do not vaccinate my Tipper either, so I agree with you on that. The movement of her back legs, and seeming uncomfortable may be from the mobilization of fat. This happens with Cushing's
where their fat is redistributed, and the liver is sometimes enlarged. The liver can press on their diaphragm and make it hard for them to breathe causing them to pant. My Tipper moves around a lot, I feel from her organs being in an unnatural position from the abdominal fat it makes her uncomfortable. I have a big cushy pillow on my bed for her. It is her go to item of choice as she sort of sinks in it and it must take the pressure off. Maybe you could try that. I am glad you got rid of the other vets that were not working with you to help your dog, way to go! I have hope you will get your girl straightened out. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum Angelique and Maya

Oh what a journey you and Maya have had.

While you are doing testing, you mentioned blood shot eyes, so I'd have her blood pressure checked for hypertension, as it could be high blood pressure that is causing the eye redness. Definitely want to know about that.

I think if I had the option that I'd have an ultrasound done to look at organs and see if anything thing shows up on the liver, spleen, adrenal glands, pancrease, gall bladder, just to be sure. That is a good tool, bang for buck.

You aren't alone. There is usually someone around to talk to and answer questions, or whatever you need. We all come here scared to death. The greatest asset will be knowledge, always, whether cushings or something else, the more you learn the better advocate for Maya you'll be and we already know you are her strongest supporter.

Welcome
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to me. I am touched by the compassion being shown on this forum and am grateful. I hope all of your Cush dogs are doing well. My heart is with you all. I am not sure why my vet choose the LDDS test first. I will ask her. All I can afford at the moment is this test and the thyroid panel. It will take me a few weeks to clear enough on my visa for an ultrasound. Another vet at my clinic is an ultrasound expert that teaches other vets in Canada and consults worldwide. If anything else of concern is going on he will find it. Also her blood pressure was tested when she first went in for the bloodshot eye. It was normal. She also tested eye pressure which was normal. It will be a very long weekend waiting for results. I just keep hugging both my dogs and telling them how much I love them. Wish I could stop crying but I am so worried. You have all been a great comfort today. Thank you.

[molly muffin]

Yes it is a worry. I'm glad you have access to an ultrasound. Many vets use the LDDS as the go to test for diagnostic purposes. Dr. Peterson prefers to use it also. (world expert in cushings)

We'll be right here with you ever step of the way. Just remember, not a death sentence. The more you learn about cushings. It really is slow, the ALP while going up isn't as bad as many we see. My own dog, just broke the 1000 in ALP. Her ALP started to go up when we first discovered crystals in her urine. So, deep breaths, we'll get through this. There is a long weekend ahead of us here in Canada, so hopefully the weather will be good where you are and you can get out and enjoy it with your babies.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

With Maya having many health issues I urge you to talk to your vet about having an ACTH stimulation test instead of a LDDS test because the LDDS test can have a false positive result when other nonadrenal illnesses are present.

This excerpt is from Dr. Peterson's blog. Dr Peterson is a renown canine Cushing's expert and who also is a contributor to Dechra's continuing education site:
...the ACTH stimulation test has the best test specificity of any of the 3 screening tests. In other words, you would be less likely to falsely diagnose a dog with Cushing's based on the results of an ACTH stimulation test than you would using the LDDST or UCCR tests.

That said, none of these screening tests for Cushing's are very good diagnostic tests when we are evaluating dogs with known nonadrenal disease. The "best" diagnostic test for Cushing's disease is and always will be a good history and physical examination.



http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/02/diagnosing-canine-cushings-disease.html

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

hmm, I thought Dr. Peterson preferred the LDDS for diagnostic, I must have that wrong. We've used both with my dog, as it is hard using just one test to still know what is going on and symptoms do play a huge part in diagnosing and deciding to treat.

sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

hmm, I thought Dr. Peterson preferred the LDDS for diagnostic, I must have that wrong. We've used both with my dog, as it is hard using just one test to still know what is going on and symptoms do play a huge part in diagnosing and deciding to treat.

sharlene and molly muffin

Sharlene, you correct in thinking that Peterson prefers the LDDS test, but when a dog has concurrent medical issue/s and is suspected of having Cushing's the ACTH stimulation test is the better option. ;)

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you for the info. I will ask her tomorrow about that when I drop Maya off. I am sure she has a reason for it as she did mention it wasn't the usual first test. Perhaps it is less invasive or less expensive. I am not sure. I knew nothing at the time so wasn't able to question it. I will also be doing the ultrasound regardless of results as soon as I can afford it. Just to get as much info as possible. She is an excellent vet and I trust her completely. That is so important at times like this. My dogs really like her too and tails wag when she comes in the room. I would be more of a mess without her support. I will keep updating as this proceeds. Thx so much. ~ Maya & Griffins mommy

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

I just wanted at add that if Maya does have Cushings it would definitely be the beginning stage and I don't think there would be any rush to start treatment. Before I would even accept the diagnosis I would want all the testing available and the ultrasound as well. It is just the not knowing that is hard. I also would need to learn everything I can to make an informed decision for my baby girl.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

So Maya is at the vets today for 8 hrs. She was stressed that I left her there by herself. Griffin is looking for her and is waiting at the front door. Didn't even want to go walkies without her. They are so attached to each other. Trying to stay optimistic but it gets hard. Such a roller coaster of an experience. Just figures that Monday is a holiday in Canada. No results till tues. Hope all your doggies are doing well today. ~Maya's mommy

[molly muffin]

Oh poor babies. It's hard for them to be away from each other.

I'm in Ontario, Canada too. Hopefully you can put this in the drawer for the long weekend. (we say that a lot on here, because sometimes for your peace of mind you really do have to turn away for a bit at a time, cushings and our pups well being can be and usually is, all consuming).

hang in there!
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hoping everything goes well at the vets with Maya. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

I just had the most stressful night. After I picked Maya up she was not breathing very well. I called them and was told she was pretty stressed and to keep an eye on her. I know my dog better than that. She is at danger for asphyxiation and for also coughing food etc into her nose due to many nose and throat issues. I could just tell she had something stuck in there. She didn't want to eat and was unable to sleep and kept trying to clear her nose. I stayed up with her all night in tears and waited at the front door of the vets for when they opened this morning. They took her in as an emergency app. And while examining her she sneezed out a long blade of grass. She was fine when I had dropped her off so this must have happened when they took her out to pee. They gave her a Benadryl shot and said to take her home and not feed her and watch her for 2 hrs and call back. She still sounds congested but is sleeping and not mouth breathing so I think she is ok now. If not I was going to bring her back for a nasal X-ray and endoscope to see if more was in there. I even borrowed money from my mom this morning just in case. The vet will call me back as they close at 1 pm to check on her again and they did not charge me anything as this happened on their watch. I am a mess with no sleep and just no tears left to cry. This was the last thing I needed with all that has been going on with her. Hopefully no more grass is stuck in there as I will be on my own till tues after they close today as it is a long weekend. It helps so much to be able to express this here and talk with all you beautiful compassionate doggie lovers.
~ Maya's stressed mommy

[molly muffin]

Oh my goodness. What an ordeal. Well, I'm glad there was nothing else that was in there. That is just a real issue with Maya's issue to be very careful with her and it doesn't take much it seems.

Is there a Vet ER anywhere near you, in case of emergencies? We have one in the Mississauga/Oakville area that I have gone to and that my IMS is at. Seems every holiday I was there for something for awhile. Not sure why everything goes wrong with my dog at around midnight, on a holiday.

Hopefully though, that was it and you won't need any further vets for awhile and certainly not over the long weekend. It is stressful though, even worrying about it.

Hoping to hear that now the grass is gone, she perks up for the rest of the day.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Sharlene & Molly Muffin

I live in Mississauga and have been at that emergency vet several times. You are definitely not the only one who has a dog that likes to have an emergency when the vets aren't open. Even Griffin was there once for a middle of the night ecoli infection puking and peeing blood. Maya has been there three times as well for various issues. Hoping I won't need them this weekend. Maya is sleeping soundly at the moment with not much nose noise so I am pretty confident she is ok now. Thank you for your concern. Small world that we live so close to each other. Hope you have a wonderful weekend.

~ Angelique Maya & Griffy Wiffy

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I am so sorry for what happened to Maya. What a terrible scare you had with her struggling to breathe. Now things are still ok? I hope you get the results first thing Tuesday morning so you can make plan. Try and relax a bit until then as episodes like what you had can drain you mentally and physically. I hope the weekend is calm and quiet for you both. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

I have a great IMS now at that ER, she is pretty astute and working with me to handle molly's who the heck knows cushing issues. If you have to book an appt with them, try to get her. Dr. Dinaz Naigamwalla. She usually gets the tougher cases.

Yep, it's a small world alright. I'm on the other side of Mississauga, by Etobicoke, but you got to do what you got to do right.

Was hoping for sunshine today, maybe tomorrow and monday will be better.

Judi, another member is up by Orangeville. Her and Keesh have also made the trip to the oakville ER and to Guelph, University.

Have a good weekend.
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Appreciate the info on the Best Vet to ask for at Oakville emergency. I would have had no idea who to ask for. Guelph University is also where Maya spent the week when she was one. I still remember them telling me it would be compassionate to put her to sleep as she was suffering. That was before they found the foreign body in her nose. So glad I told them to keep going regardless of costs. I will never give up on my baby ever. Also thank you tippers mommy for being so quick to leave reassuring comments for me. I swear you must keep this site open 24/7 LOL. Blessings to you both. Even though I have only been on this forum a short time I feel I have found very valuable friendships that hopefully continue to grow as we support each other. So grateful.

[Harley PoMMom]

OMGoodness, what a scare you had! :eek: Glad everything seems to have calmed down.

We are some of the best virtual hand holders here!! We all try to help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

I got my results today. Maya has cushings. I am devastated.

Tube Labeled Pre
Tube Labeled 4H Post
Tube Labeled 8H Post

Cortisol Sample 1 Dex. 198
Cortisol Sample 2 Dex. <28
Cortisol Sample 3 Dex. 114

Recc to do ACTH Stim test & Ultrasound ASAP
And to start Maya on Trisolane in next week or so.

I am in shock even though I kinda knew it was Cushings.
There just are no words to describe how I feel right now.

[Trish]

Crikey, grass stuck up the nose. No wonder poor Maya was not happy, glad that you got that sorted and she is feeling better.

I am no whizz on the LDDS numbers, I know it is a shock but I think you can dry your eyes and go read the threads on here that show cushing's is not a death sentence and many many dogs go on to live long lives and end up passing from things unrelated to cushings!

The guru's here will be along to advice on those numbers. A lot of people arrive here like you and feel upset, but with the knowledge of this group they will lead you through the recommended treatment choices for Maya and help you every step of the way. Knowledge is power and once you get your head around it you are going to feel much better! :)

[molly muffin]

Remember, start low with trilostane, no more than 1mg/1lb. Maya already has enough going on that you want to be conservative when starting out so as not to run into problems.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[lulusmom]

Hi Angelique and belated welcome to you and Maya.

I have just read your thread and am wondering if Maya has dilute urine and is she drinking and peeing excessively. When I say excessive, I mean peeing lakes, having accidents in the house and drinking buckets of water. Does she have a voracious appetite? By voracious, I mean begging for food and foraging? These are the most common symptoms associated with cushing's and I don't see that you mentioned them. Another odd thing is that you mentioned Maya never blows her coat. That would be very strange for a dog with cushing's.

You mentioned that only the ALP was abnormal on the blood chemistry. That is also very odd for a cushingoid dog and 278 with 131 at high end of the range, the elevations is negligible compared to what we usually see. Was a complete count done and if so, were there any abnormalities? Without the benefit of an abdominal ultrasound to validate the LDDS and rule out any other possible causes for the few symptoms you are seeing, I am a bit concerned about the diagnosis. Maya has a long history of medical problems and the few symptoms you mentioned can be caused by any number of other issues, overweight and degenerative joints to name a few.

The goal of treatment is to remedy problematic symptoms, which are usually more of a problem for a pet owner than the dog. i.e. constant begging for food and peeing in the house. What problematic symptoms are you attempting to remedy with treatment and has your vet absolutely ruled out other possible causes for those symptoms?

Glynda

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I am so sorry Maya has Cushing's. I totally understand how you are feeling and empathize with you. This has changed my whole life with my Tipper having this disease. It has become my life, as I love this dog more than life. I can totally relate to your situation as I am one that never ever gives up. You will somehow get through this , and I just know you will do well as Mayas cush mom. I have said many times on here that I will never let this disease take my girl, she is my life. So I will fight to my last breath to save her. I hear that conviction in your posts, so get ready to fight for Maya. You will feel like you have been put thru veterinary school in a few months, but the more knowledge you have, the more power you have to help your baby. My life has been consumed by this. I would not have it any other way, and would do it all over again to help my Tipper. I cry many times, but my love for this extraordinary dog keeps me going. It will get better, and you will get you and Maya thru this journey. It will get easier once you get her treated. She will feel better once her cortisol is controlled. You will feel better once you see her quality of life improve. She can live her natural life out if managed well. All of us on here have been faced with this, so we all will be on this journey with you. Please know it will get easier to deal with this. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Angelique and belated welcome to you and Maya.

I have just read your thread and am wondering if Maya has dilute urine and is she drinking and peeing excessively. When I say excessive, I mean peeing lakes, having accidents in the house and drinking buckets of water. Does she have a voracious appetite? By voracious, I mean begging for food and foraging? These are the most common symptoms associated with cushing's and I don't see that you mentioned them. Another odd thing is that you mentioned Maya never blows her coat. That would be very strange for a dog with cushing's.

You mentioned that only the ALP was abnormal on the blood chemistry. That is also very odd for a cushingoid dog and 278 with 131 at high end of the range, the elevations is negligible compared to what we usually see. Was a complete count done and if so, were there any abnormalities? Without the benefit of an abdominal ultrasound to validate the LDDS and rule out any other possible causes for the few symptoms you are seeing, I am a bit concerned about the diagnosis. Maya has a long history of medical problems and the few symptoms you mentioned can be caused by any number of other issues, overweight and degenerative joints to name a few.

The goal of treatment is to remedy problematic symptoms, which are usually more of a problem for a pet owner than the dog. i.e. constant begging for food and peeing in the house. What problematic symptoms are you attempting to remedy with treatment and has your vet absolutely ruled out other possible causes for those symptoms?

Glynda

Needed to paste that so I can fully answer your questions. I do not know if she has dilute urine. Do you mean pale yellow? I have noticed her drinking a bit more but hard to judge cause I have two dogs. I have not noticed her peeing excessively and no accidents in house but she does have a doggie door. She will pee 5 or 6 times on a walk but it's little ones and she does it to copy Griifin I think cause she likes to be the boss. She has started being possessive of her food and eats a lot quicker but she is hand feed as she needs to hold her head at a certain angle and I have to rub her throat to stimulate swallowing. My old vet that I asked about not blowing her coat had said that could be hormonal. She is not losing hair at all anywhere.
The bloodwork that was done that revealed the first abnormal liver value was while investigating the bloodshot eyes as culture was negative. It was for tick infections of some kind and liver so no idea what panel was called. All I do know is that all other liver values were normal. It was just elevated ALP. I will be doing an ultrasound and a ACTH Stim test before I proceed with any treatment. I also want to very sure that she even would need it yet as I was thinking today about her symptoms none are so bad that it bothers her. Most have been around for years. My concern is if the high levels of cortisone have hurt her organs. She did have a wellness bloodwork last July and all I know is it was all normal.
Maya is not overweight and weighs about 27 kg. I have always thought she had sore hips since stairs are hard for her but it could be hind leg weakness to. The vet who saw my dog this morning for breathing issues and phoned with results this afternoon is not my vet. She wasn't in today. So until the ACTH test and the ultrasound then I can speak to my vet about how to proceed. I am fine with how she is to be honest as I am so used to it. The ones that make me sad for her her lack of energy in walkies and how hard it is for her to do stairs but then she has always been this way. None of this is new. It's just my Maya. I think I need more time to think about all this and just do the further testing. Then I can talk about all this with my vet. I understand your concern completely and agree with you. Hopefully I answered all your questions. Thx ~ Maya's Mommy

[molly muffin]

Hi Angelique,

Every dog is different and every situation is unique, so you have to take into consideration, Maya, her health and her situation when making any decision for her, just as you have always done.

I am one of those who is not treating my molly with medication, because she has no symptoms, at this point, she has had high cortisol for a number of years and we check her liver values and do repeat ultrasounds to compare with the previous ultrasound. Thing might change, likely will change going forward but for the moment, this is what I've chosen to do.

I tell you that, not to influence one way or another but so that you know that we have all ranges of options on the forum and we support you no matter what you choose to do for Maya at this point. She isn't an easy case at all, and with multiple health issues, there is a lot to think about.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

It is all a bit overwhelming and confusing and I just don't know enough yet. A few weeks ago I had never heard of Cushings and one week crash course while being stressed isn't enough. I would never treat her just cause her symptoms bug me. I would only do that if it improves her quality of life. In simple terms I just want her to be happy and not in pain. Thank you for your post Patti. I appreciate that. I hope I haven't been rambling and repeating myself too much. I got no sleep and pretty much had a panic attack this afternoon. I am exhausted and scared and oh so very sad. I just need to sleep I think. I am happy to have found you all. So much. Sweet dreams.

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
We are here whenever you need us. You can ramble on as much as you need to, because we don't consider it that ,as we have all been in your shoes and scared to death for our babies. Please take care of yourself and stay well as Maya needs you now more than ever. I was sick to my stomach the first week I started Tipper on Vetoryl, and could not sleep. Trust me when I tell you it will get easier, and you will be so happy when Maya feels better. Today I look at each day individually, and I am blessed each morning I wake up and see my girl. I know this is a lot to take in during a short amount of time, but I know you can do it. You love Maya and I know you will want her quality of life to be the best it can be. Blessings
Patti

[lulusmom]

Hi Angelique,

I missed a few things in my original post and would like to comment further on those as well as ask more questions? Diagnosing cushing's is challenging and with Maya's long history of medical problems, the diagnosis becomes even more difficult. You mentioned that Maya has always had chronic UTI's and has always been weak in her hind legs. if your vet thinks these are being caused by cushing's, I would think Maya has had the disease for a very long time and you would be seeing the most common symptoms associated with cushing's by now as well as a lot more blood abnormalities. I'm concerned with you spending a lot of money on more testing before understanding whether your vet has ruled out other causes. Based on the information you have posted so far, I don't see Maya as presenting as a typical cushingoid dog so I'm going to play the Devil's advocate in the hopes to uncover more information for us to digest. I've typed my comments and questions below in blue text.



Maya is a 6 year old Samoyed. She has never been a well dog and I have spent thousands of dollars on her over the years. She does not have a soft palate due to a birth defect and has various nose/throat issues that are just too convuluted to type out.

Nose and throat issues can cause panting. Did your vet rule out Maya's nose and throat issues as causing the panting?

She is prone to urinary tract infections which I have under control with cranberry. It has been two years since her last one.

Dogs with cushing's are predisposed to UTI's and the vast majority of them have a UTI at diagnosis. If Maya has a history of chronic UTI's, I wouldn't think she would be clear of a UTI for two years if she does have cushing's. Did your vet do a urinalysis with a culture?

She has been panting more than usual for the last few months and is weak in her back legs but has always been that way.

Since Maya has always been weak in her back legs, did your vet do testing at some point along the way to determine the cause of that back leg weakness? I ask because Samoyeds can be predisposed to hip dysplasia which is very painful. Did your vet rule out progressive hip dysplasia as a cause for the increase in panting and exercise intolerance? Dogs with cushing's become weak in their hind quarters because of the muscle wasting caused by the catabolic effect of very high levels of cortisol. My two cushdogs lost most of their coat and you could see and feel their very boney butt and hips. Are Maya's rear end and hips boney?

A month ago I brought her to my vet for a bloodshot eye. I did steroid drops twice and a culture and a blood panel to look for a deeper infection. Everything was normal except her ALP level was 220 with normal being 5-131. This concerned my vet as in her annual exam last year it was 76. So I waited a month and just retested last week. Last test the ALP was 278.

Why did your vet prescribe steroid drops? Dogs with cushing's can have high pressure, which can cause bloodshot eyes. Steroid drops will do nothing if high blood pressure is the cause, so can I assume that your vet detected inflammation/infection? Getting an accurate reading on blood pressure is difficult but did your vet at least try to get a reading to rule out high blood pressure as the cause of Maya's bloodshot eyes?

With respect to the steroid eye drops, David Tweedt, an expert on canine liver disease, mentioned a study in one of his lectures that relates to the long term effects of steroids adminstered to healthy dogs for just two weeks. A good number of these dogs still had elevated ALKP six weeks after discontinuing the drug. I don't know which eye drops your vet prescribed but it is very possible that the steroid eye drops could have caused the mild increase.

She thinks it wise to look for hormonal problems because she feels Maya presents as a beginning stage cushings dog. I cannot wait a month so I am taking her in tomorrow for the thyroid panel and low dex test.

Samoyeds are a Nordic Breed and yes, they are a breed that are prone to hormonal imbalances and these dogs usually present with loss of coat and change in skin pigmentation. Both of my cushdogs were Pomeranians, also a Nordic breed and they did present as dogs with hormonal imbalances. Maya not only has no loss of coat, she isn't blowing her winter coat so I'm not following your vet's rationale.

You mentioned that with the exception of ALKP, all other blood values were normal. Most blood chemistries include T4, which is a thyroid hormone. If this was included in Maya's blood chemistry and it was normal, I don't understand why your vet would do a complete thyroid panel. Do you have copies of the tests? If so, can you please check to see if T4 is listed? If you don't have copies of the tests, can you get them from your vet so you can make sure that ALKP was the only abnormality?

The reasons why she thinks it could point to cushings are numerous. Slight weight gain. Some food aggression. Increased panting. Recurrent UTI's. Red eyes and red gums. Lethargic and hind leg weakness.

What do you mean by food aggression? Is she growling when someone is near her food or does she always appear to be hungry, foraging and begging? Red gums are not a symptom of cushing's unless the disease has progressed to the point of leaving a dog's immune system unable to fight off infection. Does Maya have infected gums that your vet feels are being caused by cushing's as opposed to dental disease? Not all dogs have the same color gums. One of my dogs has very red looking gums and that is normal for her. Has there been a recent change in Maya's gum color?

[jxeno13]

Hello and welcome, Angelique and Maya!

I apologize for the late greeting, but my Cushbaby, Eli, is also a full time job running to his every command. He's learned to ""play me" quite quickly! :D

I'm with Trish...everything she said! :D I'm new here as well, but trying to learn and trust me...the hard way!! ...

I'm sorry you had to meet us this way, but the wonderful people here can and will be with you all along the way! They are family and understand what everything you are feeling now. We all have cried the tears and still do for our babies. Trust me....read and listen to what they are saying...they definitely know what they are talking about! Without these people my Eli would probably have died a couple of weeks ago! :(

I never heard of Cushing's before either. But, you'll learn fast. Maya is in good hands....and you're a wonderful Mommy for her. :)

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you Sharlene. I appreciate you helping me to realize that addressing this disease is very much a case by case situation. Your point of view is very helpful.

Hi Glynda
I will do my best to answer all your questions. You are very thorough.
Maya has always been a heavy panter. I think it has various reasons. Her nose and throat issues make it hard for her to regulate her temperature. Guelph hospital did tell me that she is high risk for heat stroke. Also when I say she doesn't blow her undercoat twice a year she also keeps growing more coats each year. Every year she gets fluffier and fluffier. I keep my house at 63 for her year round and she has several cool beds that are doggie water beds that are nice and chilly. My vet is aware of all this and it definitely is all a contributing factor for her panting. I am the one that when researching symptoms this week thought she might be panting more than normal and did not get a chance to directly discuss this yet.
Maya has not had a urinalysis or culture since June last year when she presented with one that was hard to catch and did not present as all the others did. I keep an eye on that and check her for all signs very regularly. If I see redness or swelling or discharge then I know it's happening. I do give her palatech cranberry ever morning and I believe that helps a lot. Before the supplement they were reoccurring every 3 months.
I have mentioned to her that Maya seems to have sore hips and it's been that way for years. I thought this for various reasons. Slow and stop and start on stairs. Sometimes sitting while preparing for a poop. Shifting around when lying down. Kicking her legs a bit to get comfortable. My first vet with her did do X-rays of back ens as she had a luxatting patella. She wasn't a very good vet and just said she needed surgery and didn't mention hip dysphasia. I need to look up what the specifally is. As she grew into being one years old it stopped going out and resolved itself close to about 14 months old. Hasn't happened since. When I mentioned to my current vet that I thought she has sore hips she suggested a glucosamine supplement and to see if that was helpful. Again it was me while researching that thought hmmm is this hind leg weaknesss and I was wrong. I have not asked my vet about this yet as it has been such a short time of figuring this all out and learning. At this point I do not feel that her hips and butt are boney. Feels normal to me and similar to my other Samoyeds back end.
With the bloodshot eye. I think we did drops first just cause if it resolved it then it avoided the expense of tests. She gave me Tobradex. It did clear it up but when I stopped the drops it came back. Maya's eyes are always a bit red but not like this. So I brought her back again and did same drops again and also decided to investigate more. We testing eye pressure to check for a high response to rule out a tumour and a low response to see if it was pain. It did not semm to bother her at all and I think most people would not have noticed. I notice everything! We also did a culture and testing the blood as I mentioned in an earlier post. Also blood pressure was normal. After the second round of drops it came back and was then both eyes and not just the left. Now what's weird is sometimes both are bloodshot and sometimes both look great. Very confusing and she said at this point she wasn't worried about it. I think she choose these drops just to cover all the bases in addressing the issue. I had no idea that these drops would elevate the ALP. First time drops were 10 days. Second time drops were 21 days. That is very interesting in terms of the liver but doesn't explain cortisol levels from low Dex test.
When I mentioned that my vet said Maya not blowing her coat maybe hormonal is was several years ago that it came up. She did not say it was oh that is cushings. Once again that was me guessing why she told me that she presents as a beginning stage cushings dog. She wasn't completely specific at that time of why she wanted to investigate that options first after elevated ALP. She just said she was leaning that way from her medical history. I had asked her point blank if before the raised ALP if cushings has ever crossed her mind in the two years she has been seeing Maya. This was before the low Dex test. She said it had but we did not fully discuss why as I was throwing a lot of questions her way at the time.
I do not know if a normal wellness blood panel does a thyroid check. If it does then I can only assume it was normal last year. The reason she asked for a thyroid panel is to check for hypothyroidism as it can precede cushings or come after. I do have some results from sat but there was one value that takes longer. Not sure which one that is.
T4 15 10-45 nmol/L
TSH level 0.28 0.00-0.60 ng/mL
I was told these were normal levels. I have no idea what all that means really other than its a thyroid test. I think she wanted this test because it's been a year since a wellness panel.
Re food aggression. I hand feed as mentioned. In the last say 6 months to a year she has started growling over her dinner only and gets mad if I give the kitty or Griffy a piece of her salmon. She also started getting mad if I had more than one hand in her food bowl. I feel it is more being possessive of it than really aggressive. I have always given the kitty a piece and she no longer wants me too. At this point I do not feel that she is hungrier or foraging or begging.
Maya has always red gums. She does not have dental disease and had her teeth cleaned last year. There is also no smell. I feel the red gums are normal for her. I hope that answered all your questions. I appreciate your investigative nature and your help.

[lulusmom]

Angelique, you just eliminated or raised questions about most, if not all, of the symptoms your vet has attributed to cushing's in order to support a diagnosis. So now we're down to elevated ALKP which could be attributed to the steroid drops and an LDDS test that is indicative of pituitary dependent cushing's. The LDDS test is highly likely to yield a false positive result in dogs with chronic medical conditions and/or dogs who tend to get extremely agitated and stressed out at a vet's office. If Maya were my dog, I would not accept this diagnosis and I most certainly would not even entertain starting treatment.

With respect to thyroid issues, primary hypothyroidism does not usually come before or after cushing's. A very small percentage of dogs with cushing's will also be diagnosed with hypothyroidism at the time of a cushing's diagnosis. A much larger percentage, 40% to 50%, of dogs with cushing's will have low T4. This does not mean the dog has primary hypothyroidism. It means cushing's is transiently lowering T4 levels, which returns to normal once the cushng's is addressed with appropriate treatment. This condition is called Sick Euthyroid Syndrome. A very high percentage of dogs with cushing's and/or hypothyroidism will have elevated ALKP, elevated cholesterol and often elevated triglycerides on blood chemistry. I've had dogs with primary hypothyroidism and like most dogs with true low thyroid, they had noticable thinning coats, hyperpigmentation and mildly elevated ALKP, cholesterol and triglycerides. In comparison to my dogs, Maya does not seem to present as a dog with primary hypothyroidism.

If Maya has cushing's, and that's a big if, I believe it is definitely in it's infancy and I personally would take a wait and see approach, with recheck of liver values every three to six months. Most vets can do mini chemistries in house that provide liver and kidney values. Cushing's is an extremely graded disease and it can take a very long time for a dog to start showing overt symptoms. Maya is definitely not there yet. I would, however, want to have xrays done to check for degenerative joint disease that may require more than glucosamine supplements to address arthritic pain.

Glynda

P.S. I am a particularly nosy person to begin with but I think the fact that I am a sick dog magnet and a special needs rescuer that has driven me to learn more and ask questions ad nauseum. I am an active participant in my dogs' care and I never place blind faith in a vet, especially if a dog is suspected of having cushing's. k9c is an amazing resource which I took full advantage of but I do have to admit that I have become obsessive compulsive. There is rarely a day that goes by that I am not trying to find anything new on the cushing's front. It's my favorite pastime which is why I have chronic neck and back problems, widening of my hind quarters and blurry vision from spending way too much time on the computer. :D I just depressed myself and think I need to get a life.

[Harley PoMMom]

That is very interesting in terms of the liver but doesn't explain cortisol levels from low Dex test.


I would like to reiterate what I said earlier, the low-dose dexamethasone suppression (LDDS) test is known to create false positive results when a nonadrenal illness is present. With Maya having other nonadrenal issues her positive LDDS test results could be falsely elevated.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Me Again
Thx for all your responses. I just read thru my thread again and am considering all the different advice, information, support and opinions. At this point I think the next best step is an ultrasound and perhaps a hip X-ray too see what's going on. If it isn't cushings which of corse I would love, then perhaps this approach can explain what is currently going on with her. I really don't want Maya to be on trisolane and if there is reason to postpone or even not treat then I am all for that. If it is cushings and they are no present concerns that cortisol is hurting her then I would be good with monitoring and trying herbal or homeopathic options. I do not place blind faith in vets. If I did Maya would have been dead 5 years ago. My vet will have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that is is in fact cushings. Please keep in mind that thru all my posts I have been at a different place on this at different times due to confusion and fear. When a vet says point blank yesterday. Highly indicative of cushings it takes a bit to process that and not just think it may be wishful thinking that it isn't. So ya! That's where I am right now in this moment. I am sure it will shift and change as this journey continues. After this stressful weekend on her I will wait a week to do the ultrasound so things can feel normal for her with her usual routines. I love my baby and I will always do my very best for her till the last breathe. I live and breathe this dog. She is my heart and most precious companion. I would walk thru fire for her. I know that you all feel the same for your pups. How beautiful is that.
~Maya's Mommy

[lulusmom]

I totally understand where you are coming from and I'm glad you don't place blind faith in vets; however, it's hard not to with a cushing's diagnosis. We all know what it's like when your vet says that your dog has cushing's. That is why we ask so many questions and provide as much relative information as possible. We don't expect a lot of it to sink in but hopefully members get enough to start to put the pieces of the puzzle together. It's a frustrating puzzle because some of our dogs never read the book so some of the pieces never fit. When my first dog was diagnosed, I walked around in a fog for a month or two. I couldn't even spell cushing's and I remember being like a deer in headlights when the specialist was explaining things to me. All I heard was a tumor and chemo drug. At that moment I felt like somebody shot me with a stun gun. My little girl was only three years old, weighing 4.5 lbs, and the thought of putting a chemo drug in her teeny body scared me to death. It was many months later, after things started sinking in and making sense, that I felt a lot more comfortable with everything.

I think your plan of action is an excellent one and I will be looking forward to your update on the results.

[molly muffin]

I agree your plan is an excellent one and it is one that I followed myself. My vet said, definitely cushings and I even bought the vetroyl. (trilostane) However, I found k9 cushings, and I started to ask questions more and more and in the end I decided to go with an ultrasound and monitor liver levels and saw a specialist.

My molly does have enlarged liver and at the first ultrasound bilateral englarged adrenal glands. Adrenal glands will be enlarged if cortisol is being produced and if cortisol is being produced it will cause the liver to also usually become enlarged.

Don't be surprised in other words if she is producing cortisol for any reason that these might be enlarged. If she isn't producing constantly (cortisol) then perhaps they wouldn't be but an ultrasound will tell you.

There are just so many factors that have to be considered with cushings diagnosis. You will constantly be in a changing stages, of what you have ruled out, what you want to research more, etc. It is like a revolving door sometimes.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

That is so helpful to know what I can expect to see with what we do know is new and concerning about Maya besides symptoms that could be or could not be related to cushings. That would be elevated ALP that is only double normal and not off the charts as well as the Dex test and that for whatever reason high levels of cortisol in the blood. If I was at the vets for the day and I had a piece of grass in my nose (we figured out she had a pee break before 10 am and at that time it was noticed by a tech that she was stress breathing) for 7hrs then I'd be pretty stressed out to. As well as all those days on Tobradex. So I do have a question at this point. When I am finding out results for ultrasound is there anything else that could show up due to high cortisol other than enlarged liver and adrenals? What signs are indicative of cushings concerning the liver and adrenals? If anybody knows that would be helpful. Thx so much.

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
They will also be looking at the other organs to see if there is any nodules on them, or if there is an adrenal tumor if it has metastasized anywhere like to the liver, spleen pancreas, lungs. My Tipper was fortunate enough not to have an enlarged liver. You can use liver supplements. They will be checking the gallbladder as many of the cush dogs have sludge in there and it can cause stones. There is a medicine for it that my Tipper is on to get rid of the sludge, and make things flow thru the ducts. If you dog has Cushings one or both adrenals will be enlarged. The ultra sound is the best weapon for the money I feel. It can tell you what is going on inside your dog so you can make a plan. You will get through this, I know how deeply you love Maya, and I know how heartbroken you are. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you Patti & Tipper. I think that my plan for the next step is the best one for Maya & I. Today has been easier than the last few days and I feel more grounded. The more I learn and consider the easier it is to wash away all those 2 year life expectancies I saw on various websites. I still feel my heart aching but there are less tears. Had a nice relaxing day with my pups and Maya is breathing normal. Grateful for that. Blessings Angelique

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
You are doing a good job sorting this out and thinking things thru. Whatever you decide I support you all the way. I know how you feel, just keep in mind we are all here for you. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Me Again
I just got off the phone with my vet whom I haven't spoken with for a week since Maya did her ALP retest. She was up to date on what happened in the last week and completely agrees with me that one test does not making a Cushings diagnosis. We also went over all the non adrenal illnesses that can have high cortisol effects. The two that she feels could be most likely are liver disease and urinary/bladder kidney infections. We also discussed that if it does indeed turn out to be Cushings that is it early stage and would not consider Trilostane ( wow I think I spelled that right for once) until the benefits of treatment outweighed the risks and that could be years in best case scenario. I also asked her what specifically worries her about Maya in terms of Cushings besides high ALP & Cortisol. She said the panting and being anxious and stressed during visits and her slow achy lethargic hip issues. These of course could be related to numerous other things besides Cushings. So....
This week Maya gets the week off and does normal fun stuff. Next week I book her in for ultrasound/hip X-ray/ urinalysis & culture to check for infection as well as Cortisol/Creatinine ratio. She was very impressed with me on my understanding of what diagnostics I wanted as well as my understanding of Cushings in such a short amount of time. I have of all you to thank for that. We are holding off on the ACTH test for now as what is planned is all I can pay for now. This will be in the next step though. Thank you all so much for all your help in the last few days. I will just take this one day at a time and try to stay out of panic mode. Maya is still trying to figure out what all the fuss is about. She hates being cried on. LOL
~Maya's Mommy

[Harley PoMMom]

If I were you I would hold off having an urine cortisol:creatinine ratio (UC:CR) test done. When other non-adrenal illnesses or even stress are present the UC:CR is prone to give an elevated result, this test can not rule in Cushing's, it is generally used as the first step in diagnosing Cushing's. I believe that money spent on an ACTH stimulation test would benefit Maya more...JMO

Hugs, Lori

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Lori
When she mentioned the urinalysis & culture to check for infection she talked about checking gravity which I assumed was the cushings urine test. Is gravity ( sorry I am unsure how to describe ) part of a regular urinalysis? If it is then I was wrong on my assumption she meant this test. I would rather save it for ACTH test as you suggested. Thx so much
HUGS! Angelique & Maya & Griffy too.

[molly muffin]

Checking the gravity is part of a urinalysis and not the UC:CR test. Usually in cushing dogs, the gravity will be dilute compared to normal dogs.

I think a UC:CR would come back high if there are other things going on and it wouldn't confirm cushings, so it might be something to look at later, or just do an ACTH later on.

I think you have picked up the main points about cushings very quickly, but then you are a someone who has had to learn a lot about canine medical issues since Maya has so much going on. She is quite beautiful and I love your avatar.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Sharlene
Thank you for the clarification. Good to hear it is part of the regular urinalysis so less expense. I make far too many assumptions me thinks. I agree she is Beautiful! Your little Molly Muffin is adorable too. She looks very much like a princess with a bit of mischief thrown in. I call Maya my little baby seal cub and Griffy is my polar bear. I have an obsession with Arctic animals which is why I choose this breed.
~ Maya's Mommy

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

I have Maya's last test result from thyroid panel. Not sure it means anything in relation to investigating the cushings diagnosis but thought I would post it in case it did. Thx

Free T4 by Dialysis 15 10-45 nmol/L
Within normal range

[molly muffin]

Doubtful that it is thyroid would be my thought based on those T4 results.

My molly had a good free t4 result, I went ahead and did a panel and it was all normal. It is at the lower end of the range though, so just something to keep an eye on.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
What a beautiful avatar!! I hope Maya is doing well. I am glad you are getting help and support from the forum. We are all in this together so I am happy you and Maya joined our family. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Me Again
Maya is scheduled to go in for ultrasound, hip X-ray & urinalysis and culture fri may 30th. After having a week to process and learn about Cushings I really do feel that she most likely has the beginning stages of Cushings and that this is going to be the start of a long journey with her. I feel that the scheduled tests will help me rule out or in other non adrenal issues and put me in the best position to move forward. I recently read in Glyndas post that she managed her little babies Cushing for over 12 years. That gives me a lot of hope since Maya is so young. I so appreciate all of you and plan to read your threads to learn more about you and your precious dogs. Also to offer whatever support and compassion I can. Hugs Angelique & Maya

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I am glad you read about Glynda she is my go to source with problems with Tipper and she is so full of knowledge, and very generous to share with all of us. I am glad you are getting the testing. My Tipper has many issues and had been treated for 2 years come August. You just have to be very vigilant and I know that you are. You will work this out, and Maya will benefit from your tenacity. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
Just checking in with you to see how things are going?? Hope Maya is doing better, and that you feel better about treating her. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Patti
Thank you for thinking of us today. I am still here. I just haven't posted as there is nothing new till she does her ultrasound on Fri. She is breathing fine and doing well being her normal limited edition self. I have been reading thru threads for the last few days including yours. To be honest it has made me sad and I have cried for others and myself and my baby girl.
I am ready to hear that it is more likely Cushings than not. I am far from comfortable with the thought of treating with Trilostane. I have hope that it will progress slowly and we won't have to cross that bridge for awhile. I am scared about what the ultrasound will reveal. It started with a bloodshot eye that turned into potential Cushings and I am waiting for the next hammer to drop. Reading about crashes and steps backwards and ultimate deaths is tearing at my soul.
I will be posting on Fri once I gets results. It kills me that I can't fix this. I love both my dogs equally and with all my heart but my connection with Maya is different. I have an obsessive need for her to be ok. I have worried about her since the day I took her home. I have failed to keep her safe. I wish it was me instead of her. I am sorry for being so depressing. It just feels like too much at times.

~Angelique Maya & Griffin

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I surely know how you are feeling, as there is nothing I value more in this world than my Tipper. She is my universe. She is my last thought before going to sleep and my first thought on the morning. I have run myself ragged at times trying to be pro active on every thing that happens with her. I can sense your deep love for Maya. Tipper would not be here if it were not for Vetoryl. I know it is scary to you to use this drug, but just know I think it would be scarier not to as I know the damage this high cortisol does to their organs. It is not a perfect drug, as Tipper has suffered some side effects, but there is nothing else but Vetoryl and Lysodren. I know a lot of people use the lignans, but have not heard anyone say it worked. This is just a hard disease to manage without the help of these drugs. My dog is highly allergic to everything and I was petrified to put her on this drug. When I saw how bad she suffered from symptoms, I had to help her. I sat in the vets for an hour the first pill they gave her I thought I was going to vomit. I took her across the street to a park and sat there with her for hours to make sure she was not going to have a reaction, and I would be right across from the vets of she did. I started her on the very lowest mg possible even though the vet wanted her to start on 30 mg, I stuck with the 10 mg, if I had to do this all over again I would do exactly the same thing. Something helped me and guided me thru this scary time, I hope it was divine intervention. Anyone that knows me knows I am extremely cautious, and Tipper's safety is paramount to anything else. This was just the only way to keep her with me, and give her some decent quality of life at the same time. I simply cannot think of her not being with me, so I make it a point to resolve even the tiniest of matters before they turn into something larger , I get on here and ask questions if I need help, I never let the vet make decisions for me, I research everything thoroughly before using or doing something, I have a dog sitter if I have to leave the house to shop for food or Dr.s appointments. I never ever leave Tipper alone. It has been her and I against this disease. I have put my life on the back burner, and I devote each and every day to her well being. I eat, breathe and sleep this disease 24/7. I know no other way to be as my love for this dog enables me to overcome many barriers. She will be on this drug two years in August, and I pray to God I can get on here and tell you when she has been on it four years. I have no family and she is all I have, so I must continue on, and pray she stays as well as she currently is. Before this happened to her she had muscles like steel from being so physically fit. She is only a shadow of her former self now, it is sad and I cry sometimes when I look at what this has done to her. The only thing that this disease has not
changed is her loyalty and love for me. She has given me so much more than I can ever repay her for.We need each other now, so I will fight this fight every day for my wonderful girl. You will overcome your fear to use this drug, as the fear of losing Maya will become scarier than your fear of using this drug. Whatever you do I support you in it, and I am not trying to push you into using Vetoryl, I just want you to know this was hard for me too, but there is no other way for Tipper and I. It's hard to come to grips with, but you will do what is in Maya's best interests. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Angelique Maya & Griffin, I too missed hearing from you this week. I guess we all look for updates on everyone and worry when we don't see someone. :D Try not to worry. There's nothing you can really do actually, except to educate yourself as much as possible. The same with Eli...I took him in to have his teeth cleaned and a tumor removed from his neck...and BAM.....it seemed like he came home with this dreaded disease known as Cushing's! It came on slow the following week.and moved up quickly within a couple of weeks he was drinking over 64 ozs a day....and peeing rivers! I had noticed little changes in him over the last year or two....being afraid of noises (and I mean scared short of death), walking backward out of the kitchen where I kept his food, like something was going to get him. Panting at night when he sleep with me...(I thought I had the heat on too high)...just little stuff.....but thought he was just getting old and clingy, then one night it seemed...his stomach poofed out! The tremor.. ....As soon as the drinking and peeing started...I thought he may have diabetes..so right away I took him to the Vet to have him checked for that...it wasn't. He gave him antibiotics in case it might be an infection...nope not that! But, on that day.....the Vet also told me he suspected it could be Cushing's disease. (I never heard of THAT before!) :( So, I had to research what the heck that was! Eli is 10.5 approx. ..he's a rescue.....so I'm not quite sure how old he is. But, I've had him almost 9 yrs in Oct. He had NEVER been sick before since I had him his whole life....except for a broken nail he got from jumping on a picnic table and got his nail caught. Ouch! He had to have the nail removed, and it grew back. No problem. I've always fed him 4 and 5 star food....and treats...no reason to be sick. But, it happens. It is what it is..I guess. :(

But, even with Eli's overdose and crash.....I am ready to put him back on the Vetoryl again when he's ready. I'm not afraid. The first 10 days before he got sick...he was the old Eli back like a pup again! No signs of Cushing's at all. I know it may not be like that for all our babies...but it was for Eli. But, this time I'm more educated about the drug....and how much he should be taking.....and what to look for. Trust me.....he won't even be starting at the 1mg per lb...as recommended now......at 30 pounds...he'll probably get started at 10 or 15 mg (per the IMS) depending on his cortisol level......and work up from there. :D

And......first signs of a dog getting sick (vomiting) STOP Vetoryl....and ALWAYS get a RESCUE EMERGENCY pack of Predisone just in case of a crash. I've also seen some newer people talk about starting and stopping dogs on Vetoryl...you can't do that. You have to wait at least 30 days to start again..and then a dog should be back into full blown Cushing's mode..I call it "drinkin and drippin"...before you start them back on again. In Eli's case...he's not back on Vetoryl again yet. He just had a ACTH Stim test on Friday...but I doubt his cortisol level is very high right now. He's eating a lot..but drinking normally and not dripping. :)

Sorry for the long post. But, I didn't want you to be afraid of the Vetroyl and I realize Maya has other problems. Just be cautious.....and come on here first....and talk to someone before you start any Vetoryl on Maya. That would be my advise. :D:D:D

Hugs and have a great holiday today!!
Jo Ann and Eli

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

I have a quick question that I am hoping one of you can answer. What is considered a normal level of cortisol in the blood? If Maya's first cortisol reading from the low Dex test was 198. Is that a high level or a moderate level. I understand that this test it more about seeing if the pituitary will tell the adrenals to stop making cortisol but am unclear of what her baseline means. I find myself nervous about tomorrow's ultrasound. Actually a lot more than just nervous. Sick to my stomach and in tears yet again. ~Maya's Mommy

[Harley PoMMom]

I'm assuming that the 198 is in nmol/L, right? Which would be 7.18 ug/dl, to convert from nmol/L to ug/dl one has to divide the nmol/L by 27.59.

All labs have their own set of reference ranges. With the LDDS test the 8 hour mark is looked at first and if it is over the cut-off range which is usually 1.4 ug/dl (38.6 nmol/L) or 1.5 ug/dl (41.4 nmol/L) than the dog could have Cushing's.

Sweety, we are here for you and dear Maya...sending comforting hugs, Lori

[lulusmom]

If Maya's first cortisol reading from the low Dex test was 198. Is that a high level or a moderate level. I understand that this test it more about seeing if the pituitary will tell the adrenals to stop making cortisol but am unclear of what her baseline means. ~Maya's Mommy

The first blood draw done on the LDDS measures the resting cortisol, also known as baseline or basal cortisol. The last two draws are done after injecting the dog with a low dose of dexamethasone. The normal range for resting cortisol in ug/dl, which Lori converted, is usually 1 to 6 ug/dl. Maya's resting cortisol is just a bit over that which is not unusual. The stress of being at the vet's could increase cortisol a bit. It is not a severe or even moderate elevation. I hope that helps.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you. That was exactly what I was trying to figure out. I suck at math big time and would have got stuck at that part. I wanted to know if her resting cortisol was high so I could know how much it would be affecting her body at this point. To me, Maya is being her normal self and I see no reason at this point to even consider treating her. I am taking her in for her tests shortly. I pretty much begged them to get her done first so she won't have to stay as long. Even if that means I have to go back for results. I feel so guilty already as I know how unhappy she will be. I am so nervous I couldn't sleep that well last night. It's probably a good thing I never had children as this worrying is killing me. I will post her results later today.
~Maya's Mommy

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
You are doing a good job and you will get thru this and so will Maya. I say a prayer for you both every nite with my Tipper. I know how you are feeling, Tipper is very child like to me too. It will get easier I promise. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you Patti. You have been a great comfort to me and I appreciate your prayers. I have been worried about your precious Tipper as well. I hope she is breathing easier and you figure out why she is so congested. It is agonizing to watch your baby struggle like that. I know that feeling so well. Blessings to you and your precious pup. ~Angelique

[jxeno13]

G'morning, Angelique! Hang in there! Maya will be OK! So, will you. :D Although, I have 4 two-legged kids, Eli is my youngest, and fifth. My youngest son, Steven, now 36 calls him his "little brother". :D ...Our LDDS lasted for 8 hours, so the test took all day. Is that the one you're having? I hate to assume. You know what that means. lol ...I'll also be praying for you both, as always. Maya will be OK.

Math is not my friend either, so I know what you mean! Even when Lori and the others explain it so well....it goes right through my head...and come out meaningless. :eek: I think I'm math dyslexic myself! :(

Unless Maya is really "drinkin and drippin"...I don't know if the Vet would want to treat her yet. I know though with Eli his level now is normal....so we'll wait until the level elevates to the point of the "drinkin and drippin" mode.....before he's back on the Vetoryl.....to a new MUCH LOWER dose than he was before.

I know you wanted to try the herbal route, I don't know if you are still thinking that route, but the more senior members, can explain that to you. There are a couple of people on here who have tried the Anipril and also the Chinese herbs....but they didn't help and eventually went on use the Vetoryl. jmho They can cause more harm than good in some cases. But, of course that's still your choice, and we'll support you whatever your decision. Perhaps, you won't even have to treat her right now anyway. Just take one day at a time. We really don't know if Maya has Cushing's yet or not, right? :)

I'll leave that to Sharlene, Marianne, Lori, Gynda, Lori, and then some....they are all the great explainers of things. :D:D

Hang in there. I think it hurts us more than it hurts them sometimes.

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Thank you Jo Ann & Eli
Maya already had her LDDS test which came back highly indicative of PDH. She is having an ultrasound, hip X-ray & urinalysis and culture to try to rule in or out non adrenal illnesses and rule in or out more evidence of Cushings. Griffin is whining and looking for Maya. He did agree to go walkies but looked for her the entire time and pretty much dragged me back home to check if she was home yet. That boy is very strong and being a sled dog sometimes I barely hang onto the monster.
I am pretty stressed out cause I know she is upset. They said she can go first this morning so she can come home earlier. Just sitting here with phone in hand trying not to cry. I am such a suck it is ridiculous. I can't help it. If I had a dollar for every time I was called too sensitive or too emotional I would be a rich woman.
I am so pleased that Eli is feeling better after his crash. Stupid vets and there inability to do a bit of research before they prescribe dangerous drugs is appalling. I hope that taught your vet a valuable lesson. Give your pup a belly rub for me and tell your neighbours that are so ignorant and insensitive to kiss your butt.
~Angelique Maya & Monster Griffy

[jxeno13]

Hey there! OK...I'm back up to speed now! Duh me! :o The ultrasound for Eli was a piece of cake. His showed it was all normal.telling them he had a pituitary dependent Cushing's. The rest shouldn't take long either. If that helps any. I forgot what all Maya was having due to my ignorant neighbors and getting upset over those idiots. :mad: I'm the same as you being too sensitive and emotional over things. I cry over family unions on TV. I can't even watch those ASPCA ads on TV either. Just to name a couple of things. So, I know exactly what you mean.

How sweet Griffin misses his girl!! :) I wish I had gotten Eli a girlfriend to keep him company besides me. :( Now it's too late and Eli has to be my last baby. I'm just getting too old to handle another. :(

I've become a hysterical Cushmom ...running to the Vet with my nasty brown specimen that came out of Eli's mouth when I wiped some drool from his little face....and RAN to the Vet...horrified that it could probably be part of his brains or something else just as horrible....only to find out it was .....FOOD!! lol :eek::eek:

I think my Vet is catching on by now. Each time he sees me (which is quite often these days) I educate him a little more. :D He's getting it! He's also working now with our IMS in Louisville......which is a PLUS! ;) He faxes all results to her....and they now discuss Eli's case and the game plan for him. That alone makes me feel more at ease....right along with what I've learned here from these great people! :D:D

As for my neighbors...You're right! They can kiss both our butts! :D:D And...I make sure that I expose them to Cushing's on a daily basis now....MANY times a day!! ;):D

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Jo Ann & Eli
I have already called the vets to check on her. They know what I am like and do there best to appease me. I am so nervous still. Just sitting here looking at my stupid phone. She was getting her X-rays when I called and reception didn't know if she had her ultrasound yet. I try not to be a pain in the ass and I have to stop myself from calling again. Best thing I ever did for my baby was get her her own puppy. I didn't even want another dog but I did it for her. They are first cousins. There mothers are litter sisters. She adores him and he loves her to pieces. Griffin is a crazy monster and always happy. Makes me smile everyday. Can't imagine life without them. I do not think I will have any more pets after this. It is just to hard and so much heartache when things go wrong. My kitty is 17 and she will be my last cat as well. If I ever do change my mind in the future about another dog it will be a small no more than 20 pound rescue. We shall see I guess. Blah I am rambling to get my mind of Maya. Please excuse me. ~ Angelique

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Maya is home and very groggy. I think she is still in lala land from the sedation. I am going back at 230 to talk with my vet about the X-rays and the vet that did the ultrasound. They are really busy in there today so I am grateful she only had to do a half day. I feel better she is home but so very nervous to get results. I will post when I find out my precious Maya's fate.

[Harley PoMMom]

Please get copies of all test results and post them here for us, ok? Another thing, you can come here and ramble, vent, yell, cry. etc...anytime you need or want to, we are here to help in any way we can, we're some of the best hand holders ever! ;)

Hugs, Lori

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Me Again
I totally forgot to ask for a copy of her ultrasound results in technical terms but I will call and ask for them to email it. I will just type out what I was told. Hip X-ray came back completely normal. No hip dysplasia and no signs of arthritis. My vet feels that her achy signs maybe a little bit nerve and muscle related but nothing to worry about at this point. She would hesitate to use this as a marker for cushings as it is normal for Maya.
Ultrasound was all normal except for liver and adrenals. Her liver is not enlarged but did have some slight discolouration but not to the point that they felt the need to biopsy. It could be the start of liver disease of some sort but for now she needs a liver supplement and milk thistle to support function and restest her liver values in August and then every 6 months unless it goes higher. If the liver values do go a lot higher then another ultrasound to check.
Her adrenal glands are both 4 times smaller than normal and are flattened like a pancake instead of bean shaped. If she hadn't of just done the LDDS it would look like Addison's but it can't be with those cortisol readings. (Maya definitely likes to be one of a kind and not follow the textbook) . At this point they both do not feel she has cushings however it is highly likely that she will develop cushings as she gets older considering the abnormalities. They also want to still do the ACTH test in a few weeks so they can have a feel for adrenal function as well as cortisol levels. Edit- because her adrenals are so tiny it would be very easy for her to crash on cushings drugs and would be difficult to treat and monitor if it ever gets to that point.
I will get the technical summary and post that probably today. I don't think I missed anything in explaining in lay mans terms. I am relieved that it is not happening right now and am ok with the probability that it will happen later. So at this point I will monitor the liver and the adrenals with bloodwork, ACTH tests and ultrasounds as needed.
Maya is sleeping soundly and totally pissed at me for what happened to her today. Hopefully by tomorrow she will forgive me. I am still concerned and worried but I feel I have some time now to just let her be her beautiful self and enjoy each day with her.
Thank you all so much for all your support and helping me to understand Cushings disease. I an truly grateful.
~Angelique (Maya's Mommy)

[molly muffin]

Well this is a very decent ultrasound result and with Small adrenal glands, no way would I put her on cushings meds, unless they started to enlarge. Cortisol can go higher for other reasons too, such as any kind of chronic problems. Which Maya seems to have an abundance of.

I have been doing much the same as what you are going to be doing for the last few years. Different results and reason behind it, but the course has been the same.

We're here any time you want to us, need us or want to have a chat. Once you join k9 cushings, we just call you family forever. :)

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Sharlene & Molly Muffin
Don't go kicking me off the forum just yet. I guess we do find ourselves in the same kinda situation where thing don't make a lot of sense and don't follow the rules. Since Maya does have a lot of unique problems I guess it shouldn't surprise me that her adrenals are unusual. IMO Trilostane would probably turn her into an Addison's dog. I will probably wait a month or so before I do the ACTH test. She has had enough stress in the last 2 weeks. I am still processing all I found out today. Need to let the new info sink in and let go of some of the stress. I swear I have aged 5 years this month.
~ Maya's Mommy

[molly muffin]

LOL I actually meant the opposite of kicking off, more along the lines of don't think you get to have us fall in love with Maya and Griffin and then go wondering off on us :) :) LOL

I wouldn't be in any hurry to have an ACTH done based on the ultrasound findings. Actually I probably wouldn't do so unless the liver values started going up and any follow up ultrasound (by the way not sure how it is where you took Maya but my recheck ultrasounds are cheaper than the first) showed that there was a need. (adrenal glands enlarging, etc)

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
No kicking you off the forum, you are stuck with us now!!Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Jo Ann & Eli
I have already called the vets to check on her. They know what I am like and do there best to appease me. I am so nervous still. Just sitting here looking at my stupid phone. She was getting her X-rays when I called and reception didn't know if she had her ultrasound yet. I try not to be a pain in the ass and I have to stop myself from calling again. Best thing I ever did for my baby was get her her own puppy. I didn't even want another dog but I did it for her. They are first cousins. There mothers are litter sisters. She adores him and he loves her to pieces. Griffin is a crazy monster and always happy. Makes me smile everyday. Can't imagine life without them. I do not think I will have any more pets after this. It is just to hard and so much heartache when things go wrong. My kitty is 17 and she will be my last cat as well. If I ever do change my mind in the future about another dog it will be a small no more than 20 pound rescue. We shall see I guess. Blah I am rambling to get my mind of Maya. Please excuse me. ~ Angelique

Rambling? I do it ALL the time!!! :D I wish I had gotten another baby, but it's too late for that now. I've had a creature of some sort since I can remember..and a dog of some kind for the last 58 yrs. When I told my brother this is the end for me, he said; "I find that hard to believe"! lol ......But, the winter's here are just too cold for me now to be walking a dog..or even myself, for that matter. :( ...

I'm so happy for you that Maya doesn't have Cushing's, at least not for now, anyway. And, really they can only speculate that she may. YAY for Maya's sake or yours! :D

And, NO, you're surely NOT leaving us at any time!! It's NOT allowed! :p

[labblab]

Hmmmmm...the ultrasound results really do raise some questions, don't they?? :confused: I'll be looking forward to seeing the formal summary when you post it.

For what it's worth, without knowing more, I'd be inclined to still go forward with the ACTH to gain a better picture of Maya's overall adrenal functioning, as your vet has suggested. Stimulation and suppression tests each have different strengths and values in terms of clarifying abnormal adrenal function. The LDDS gave you one type of picture, but the ACTH is the gold standard in terms of identifying Addisonian patterns. As your vet said, the high baseline cortisol on the LDDS would be odd for an Addisonian dog. But there may be a "flatness" or lack of response to ACTH stimulation that triggers some bells. The vets may additionally decide to perform a test of the ACTH level that Maya is producing naturally, because that can also carry diagnostic implications re: adrenal abnormality. I agree with the vets that the very odd appearance of Maya's adrenal glands warrants some additional investigation as to their performance.

Marianne

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Me Again
I was only joking Sharlene. I still feel the need to be here and do care about the Cush pups that I have gotten to know so far. I like to check in the morning to see how everybody is. According to Jo Ann it is against the rules. 8)
I agree with you Marianne about doing the ACTH test to see how those tiny little adrenals are functioning. As it usually goes with my Maya she is a mystery and another House episode. I am going to hold off though until her Annual in Aug. I do not want to put her body thru any more stres.
I have requested a summary report of the Ultrasound and reception did say he was really busy and it is on the to do list. I will post when it is emailed. Also waiting on urinalysis and culture results.
SO another night of Drama with Maya. Once she came out of being groggy and sleeping she started acting funny. Crying out and sitting funny and trying to bend towards her belly. She has a hard time reaching her back end as she is not flexible that way. She kept wanting to lay her belly on her cool bed and was pretty distressed. I was up and done with her all night yet again cause I kept hearing her yelping. The only thing I feel it can be is her shaved belly is hurting her. She has a very sensitive belly and never let's me brush it. So I called my vets when they opened and went to pick up a hydrocortisone spray to help it cool off and stop any itch. That didn't seem to work so I called again and was told to give her Benadryl 50 mg as needed ever 8 hrs. That hasn't seemed to help but it made her groggy and she is sleeping. It only seems to hurt her when she is moving around and does ok laying down. Can't help but be worried so I have stayed with her all day. SIGH I was hoping to have one day of peace.
Has anybody else had their dog react like this to a shaved belly? It would help to know if this is unusual or not. Feel so bad for her and guilty cause she has had so many tests and vet visits in a 2 month period.
~Angelique Maya & Griffy

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh my, poor Maya and poor you. :( Does her belly look like it has razor burns on it?

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

No I don't see any razor burn but it did feel slightly hot and cools down a bit when I used the spray they gave me. She is super sensitive on her belly and is used to a thick layer of hair so I guess its feeling strange and maybe stinging. I hope she feels better tomorrow. I will ask for some Metacam on monday if she continues to squeal and cry.

[jxeno13]

Hi Angelique! I hate hearing Maya is still having a hard time. :( I don't know how they shaved Eli for his Ultrasound, but poor little guy seems to take everything pretty well these days considering. He used to have sort of a separation anxiety thing going on...and now they say he acts like a perfect gentleman. Poor thing probably figures by now, he has no other choice. :o I'm sorry I don't know what to suggest there.

He's been to the Vet so many times lately since February, I told them I thought they should put my name on the door too! :D

I also read where you wrote Maya hates taking pills. Eli does too! He even finds them in a pill pocket and spits them out. I think it was Sharlene that said to give the Vetoryl with some cream cheese....so I tried that with some antibiotics that I was giving Eli and he scarfed it down without even knowing a pill was connected to it. Ha! When Maya has to take a pill try some cream cheese...mine just happened to be cream cheese with pineapple. He went nuts over it!.......Pill and all! :D

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
Do you think it is the actual shaving or could she be sore? I know sometimes when I have had an Ultra Sound they press so hard to get a good image that it hurts and my bones ache afterwards for a few days. Would something cool to lay on help her, or do you think something warm? I know you fell terrible, and are trying you best to help her. Just remember you are doing this out of love. I too would want the ACTH to see where she stands, after she rests for a few weeks and gets back to her self again. Hope she has a better day today. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Beautiful People
Maya seems to be doing better today. She is still showing all the signs of distress but the intensity of it is at about half. I sprayed her belly and gave her more Benadryl. Patti- I think it is a combination of sore and the shaving. I do know the vet had a very hard time finding her adrenals so perhaps she feels bruised. She does have her cool bed to lay her belly on and has stayed pretty much glued to it. She is not up for walkies and Griffy won't go without her so I guess nobody gets one today. Perhaps he will go with me tonight if I tell him we can hunt bunnies. He loves night time walks cause all the bunnies are out. Don't worry I don't let him chase them he just likes finding them. Griffin has his annual tomorrow so I will ask for Metacam for Maya. Just to make her more comfortable. She is kissing me today so I think she has forgiven me for Fridays experience. No more vets for my baby for awhile. Thank you for your feedback concerning her sore belly. It helps to have you guys to discuss this with. Love you guys.
~Angelique Maya &Griffy

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I know one time the vet told me it is sometimes hard to see one of the adrenals. I bet she is sore as when they can't find something on me, they press harder to see it. One time Tipper looked bruised from hers. Hope she feels better soon. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi
I was just emailed the ultrasound results for Maya which I will copy and paste at end. I am not sure I understand much of it as there are lots of technical terms. If anybody is able to translate a small summary of concerns for me I would very much appreciate that. He said she was obese! Griffin had his annual on Monday and he is getting fat too! Guess both my pups are on a summer diet cause that is just not healthy. I feel bad about that cause that it so my fault. I am still waiting on urinalysis and culture and will post if abnormal.
Maya is feeling better with her shaved belly with just a little bit of itch but at least no more yelping. I am so happy her testing is all finished for now. Just giving her milk thistle and liver supplements and retest ALP in 3 months. Any feedback on ultrasound is appreciated.
~Maya's Mommy

Dear Ms. Timmerman Here is the US report as per your requests. unfortunately all of the US images were recorded under the name of Chiquita Dyble # 30-05-2014 Liver; parenchyma: rt lobe hyperechoic liver with decreased portal markings. No regenerative nodules were noted. Some area of diffuse hyperechoic coarse stippling were noted in select areas of the liver. Significance at this time is unknown. Biopsies may be required to properly identify lt lobe similar appearance yet the portal markings are visible in these lobes, vena cava: normal gallbladder: very little suspended echogenic debris within it. Normal thickness to the GB wall common bile duct: normal in appearance and wall lining Urinary Bladder: normal R Kidney; 48.3 X 30.8 mm cortex: Excellent C/M differentiation medulla: normal pelvis: no pyelectasia ureter: not seen L Kidney; 46.6 X 30.2 mm cortex: Excellent C/M differentiation medulla: normal pelvis: no pyelectasia ureter: not seen Rt Adrenal; difficult to find as it is so slender. The overall thickness is similar to the phrenico/abdominal vessel feeding it. The layering ration is only 1 / 1.4 at best, once again not supporting Cushing's disease. Lt Adrenal; very small gland. Caudal thickness was 3.3 mm and the proximal pole measured only 2.5 mm. The thickness of the cortex and its associated hypoechoic layering was only 1 mm. The ratio of the cortex to medulla was only 1 / 0.7 which does not support Cushing's disease Pancreas; body: lt branch: normal rt branch: not well seen Stomach/ pylorus ; normal Duodenum:normal layering and thickness Jejunum:normal and thickness Ileum:normal and thickness Colon: normal and thickness Mesenteric LN; normal Interpretation.; the atrophied adrenal glands, kidneys, pancreas and GB are not as supportive of the Dx of Cushing's disease. No biliary sludge is noted in the GB. The liver is hyperechoic which can represent hepatic lipidosis such as with vacuolar hepatopathy (VH) but is in no way solely associated with hyperadrenocorticism. The dog is obese and she may have just hepatic lipidosis. We will consider treating her medically and see if her enzymes ( ALP ) respond in a positive fashion.

[molly muffin]

Hi ya. Overall this is a pretty good ultrasound. As mentioned, weight might be having an effect on the liver, so moving her to a weight management food might help (Try Fromms Weight Management) and giving her vegetables like green beans, carrots, peas, blueberries, etc for treats to fill her up would help too.

The adrenal glands being so small are a concern, and I really don't think you have to think about cushings with those glands. As Marianne or maybe it was Lori, mentioned, you might want to have an ACTH done at some point, to make sure she is producing Enough cortisol. I know it's always one thing or another.

However, it is a good ultrasound result, her organs all seem to be in good shape. Is there anything specific that you have concerns about?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Sharlene & Molly Muffin
Thank you. My only concerns were her liver and adrenals. I just wanted to be sure there were no other issues to be worried about. Also a few members had expressed interest in me posting the summary. I am not used to the medical terminology so it was hard to understand fully. Thx Angelique

[molly muffin]

Oh I think you did Very well! We do like to see summaries, definitely. I've done more than few typing out of them for my molly too. Same reason, it's better to get more eyes looking at it!
It's also an excellent location to keep test results that are abnormal, you can look back and do comparisons, have them all in one spot, accessible from any computer. All kinds of stuff.

I wasn't sure if there vet might have mentioned something else that needed to be watched or not. Liver and adrenals are the two I'd want to keep an eye on too. Nothing dire there, but those are worth watching.

You're doing great!!! This is a fantastically HUGE learning process, so give it time, 2 years down the road, you'll be spitting it out like an ole pro. :)

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
You will be more qualified than some of the vets I know after all this information!! It seems like a truck load of stuff all at once, but it does get better, and easier. Thank you for thinking of my Tipper. Blessings
Patti

[gatorgirl_bama]

Angelique,
Just wanted to say I'm thinking about you and Maya.

Sending love,
Donna

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
Just wondered how you and Maya are doing. I hope all is going well. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Ladies
Maya is doing great. She has peach fuzz on her belly now and it is not bothering her. I have figured out how to get her to take her SAMe tablets by hiding them in sweet potato treats. She is onto me now and inspects everything. I got her liquid milk thistle so that makes it super easy. Also her urinalysis & culture came back all clear with normal gravity. She is back doing normal stuff and seems content enough. I am so relieved that she is so much better than I expected. I am of course worried about her liver and adrenals but it's better than what I thought I would be dealing with.
I have been checking on your pups every morning too see how you are all doing. I didn't want to bump my post as there are a few Cush pups lately that need to be front and centre on page 1 to get help and support. My heart is with you all.
Blessings Angelique & Maya

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
So nice to hear that your Maya is doing so well. It makes everyone's day to see good news. I hope she continues to get better every day. We all live for those moments when our babies are happy and feeling well. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Awww. I'm so happy that she is doing so well. That peach fuzz is the cutest isn't it.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

I didn't want to bump my post as there are a few Cush pups lately that need to be front and centre on page 1 to get help and support. My heart is with you all.
Blessings Angelique & Maya

Sweety, you can post any time you like, we love to hear good news and the fact that Maya is doing great is sure a good reason for bumping up her thread!! ;)

Hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
That's right we need some good news on here so post away, we can get to the second page easy enough so don't give it a thought. Hugs to you and Maya to have an even better week. Blessings
patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Angelique, Maya, and Griffin! Missing you and thinking about you all! How are you doing?

[gatorgirl_bama]

Good morning Angelique and Maya.

Just checking on y'all and wanted to say hi.

Donna

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Good Morning beautiful ladies

Thank you so much for checking in with me. It touches me everyday the compassion shown by all of you. It has become my morning ritual to find out how everybody's pup is doing. I was so sad to read about Daisy Mae and my tears were flowing for her and her mommy. Makes me want to punch that incompetent vet right in the face. Just shows that you really can't trust anything but your own research.
Maya & Griffin are both doing great. I am getting stinky eye at the moment as they both want their morning walkies. Griffin hurt his leg a few months ago by pounding on the balcony like a polar bear at a dog walking by. He tries to shake the ground to show how tough he is. Now he goes lame for a few minutes at a time and I massage it for him then he is fine. So once I recover from Maya's vet bill I need to take him for an X-ray to see what he did to himself. Perhaps a pinched nerve I am not sure. I am convinced my doggies want me to be poor. At least they have a goal. pppfftt
Donna- I have a special place in my heart for you. Right beside my grief of losing my 21 year old black kitty 6 years ago. I have never experienced that kind of pain in my life and even this many years later I cry like it happened yesterday. Sending love and hugs your way. Forever & Always. Till the last breath.

Angelique Maya & Griffin

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I can imagine the pain of losing your kitty would be unbearable. I am hoping there is nothing too much wrong with Griffin. Tipper does that stomp with her two front legs when she gets mad. I am hoping Maya is still doing well today. I know all about the vet bills trust me, it can get overwhelming, but what can you do? I know what you mean about not being able to trust anyone especially vets. If I had let my vet do what he wanted with Tipper she would not be here today. I only trust myself and the people on here. I make any decisions about her I never leave it to anyone else. It is a shame, but you have to do what you have to do to protect your baby. We are in for bad storms this afternoon so I must time Tipper's meds just right! Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I just wanted to check and see how you and Maya are doing. I hope all of you are well. Just was thinking about your kitty too. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hi Patti
Thank you for thinking of us. Maya is doing great. She doesn't like the heat much but I take them early and late when it is cooler out. Sheba (kitty) is also good. For 17 she is doing extremely well for her age. She is starting to get that old lady look but it doesn't stop her from swiping at the dogs when they bug her. I hope you and your furry babies are well and that Tipper is calmer with the meds. Have a great weekend.
~Maya's Mommy

[goldengirl88]

Angelique:
I am so glad to hear that Maya is well. I hope my older kitty can go the distance of 18-19 years he will be 14 and is the most loveable and adorable cat ever. Hope all of you enjoy a bit of summer. Blessings
Patti

[Angelique (Maya's Mommy)]

Hello Everyone

It has been awhile since I have checked in to see how you all are doing. Maya is doing great and her ALP levels were almost normal in her last bloodwork. I want you all to know how much I appreciated your support and wealth of knowledge during that time. My heart is broken today to see that Tipper has passed away. Very very sad. I am so sorry. Truly heartbreaking. Thank you to all of you for loving your dogs so much that you would do anything for them. I love you all.

~Angelique Maya & Griffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Good to hear from you again, Angelique, and especially to hear that Maya is still doing well! Hope you come back to see us soon.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Hi Angelique :) Great to see you again and to hear that Maya is doing so well. It has been awhile.
Yes we are always very sad when we lose one of our beloved furbabies.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin