Is she too old? - sweet Melina has passed

[jackie]

We have a 13yr German Shepherd spayed female who is being treated for severe arthritis. A year ago her shaved coat did not grow back, now the little hair she does have is coming off, there are sores on her skin. I suspected Cushings a few months ago but did not mention to her vet. Now she has more signs of having cushings; losing hair, sores, hearty appetite, thirsty, has a pot belly even though her back legs are skin and bone due to the arthritis. She is unable to walk on her own which started last week. Her ribs are very visible. I would like to know if anyone here thinks it's too late to have her put on medication for the Cushings?

Thanks for any help.

Jackie

[Renee]

Hello Jackie and welcome!

Others will be along to welcome you and ask a slew of questions. :)

I just wanted to pop in and say... I do not believe any dog is too old. Cushings treatment can improve quality of life greatly when a dog and their family is suffering from the symptoms. It's not just about the quantity of time left, it is about the quality too.

That said, you should probably first get the diagnosis squared away before worrying too much about treatment. It's good to think about it, but don't jump the gun. The diagnosis of cushings can take a while, and it definitely takes more than one test to confirm.

I will add - if the sores are the dreaded calcinosis cutis, you will want to treat (assuming cushings is confirmed). CC can quickly get out of control and be hard to manage.

There are many young and old dogs on here that are successful with treatment. My own dog is 10 years old and doing really well.

[doxiesrock912]

Jackie,
I second what Renee said. Quality of life matters and many symptoms of Cushings are assumed to be old age until diagnosis is confirmed and it all "clicks".

Daisy Mae will be 11 in September and we've been trying to find her optimum dose for a year but the gradual improvements add up over time and are so worth it! She also has arthritis but what I attributed to that was mostly muscle weakness due to Cushings and that has improved greatly.

No one can predict how long we'll have with our furbabies, but Cushings is treatable and doing so does improve quality of life for them and us too.

[jxeno13]

Hi Jackie! I can't post anything myself on Cushing's, as we're new at it too...Eli and I. ..Eli is my baby and he's about 10 now...and having a rough go of it...and in the doggy hospital now for an infection. Hopefully, tomorrow he'll come home again. I am lucky with Eli, as he has always been healthy and very hearty up until our Cushing's "kicked-in".

Too old? Naw....they're never too old for a try at a great quality of life. It may take some trial and error for awhile....but, I know Eli and I are sure counting on several more years together. :D

And, you can count on MANY caring people here who can help you with anything that you could possibly need to know about Cushing's. They've all been through it....some with more than one. You've definitely come to the right place!

Good luck with your baby, Jo Ann and Eli

[Iraklis]

Is she given prednisone for arthritis?
Dosage?
Weight of dog?
If so...Could be iatrogennic cushings...

[Sophies Mom]

Jackie,
I second what Renee said. Quality of life matters and many symptoms of Cushings are assumed to be old age until diagnosis is confirmed and it all "clicks".

Daisy Mae will be 11 in September and we've been trying to find her optimum dose for a year but the gradual improvements add up over time and are so worth it! She also has arthritis but what I attributed to that was mostly muscle weakness due to Cushings and that has improved greatly.

No one can predict how long we'll have with our furbabies, but Cushings is treatable and doing so does improve quality of life for them and us too.

Well said Valerie!

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me too. I am sorry your girl is having these problems.

I do agree quality of life is most important and I believe it is not too late to start treatment if properly diagnosed. Firstly, I would like to know if your vet tested for any other conditions such as diabetes. Some conditions' symptoms can mimic Cushing's symptoms.

If testing (and that includes a full blood panel) was done, please post the any elevated results here.

Is she taking any other medication, especially for her arthritis? If so, for what and the dosage.

I would not jump to Cushing's right away until you get a firm diagnosis. I would take a few minutes to read through these links to understand more on the testing and treatment options -- http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180.

Keep us posted
Terry

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

My first take would be that if your dog does indeed have Cushings and severe arthritis, high cortisol is helping her self medicate as cortisol acts like a steriod to her body. So if in fact she has true Cushings and you decide to treat it, a discussion would be needed with your vet on how to continue to treat the severe arthritis. which may possibly get worse by dropping her cortisol. Everything has a cause and affect so sometimes we have to look at the 'worse of two evils" and weigh our options.

There is no need to rush into treatment. Better to have all your ducks in a row.

[goldengirl88]

Hello and welcome to you and your baby. I just want to say that my Tipper would not be here today without treatment. She will be 13 in October God willing. In August she will have been on treatment for two years. So I personally do not think you dog is too old. Many of these dogs have a good quality of life, and can live their natural life span out with treatment.
I am very familiar with the German Shepherd Breed. If this were my dog I would have all the diagnostic testing done. Such as LDDS, ACTH, blood panel, urine culture, and Ultra Sound. You will have a much better picture of what you are dealing with then and able to formulate a plan. Right now I would try to get on the CC like Renee suggested as it can be a bugger to control seeing others on here with it. If you have a laser therapist available where you live that uses a cold laser, I personally would go that route to knock it out if possible. If not you can consult with the others on here who have treated it.
About the arthritis. You know this breed is known for it especially in the hips and legs, and back. The very best thing you can do that is not a lot of money is call the vet and ask for Adequan shots now. He will need a series to get a build up the first two weeks then for maintenance about every three weeks. It is an injection. Then I would get him on Glyco Flex III immediately. It has green lipped muscle in it which will benefit him. You can get it on Amazon in a big container, it is dosed by weight.
Lastly because he is a German breed and they can be very sensitive to medications according to the vet, if you are going to treat him do not go any higher than 1mg per pound of his body weight. No matter what the vet says start him on a low dose. It will keep him safer. You will get great support and guidance on here so use the forum to learn all about this disease. You will be the only advocate for your dog, so my best advise is do not blindly trust any vet. Before doing anything with your dog that the vet suggests, please come on here and get help. Many vets know very little about Cushings, but do not admit it, and you need to always check on what they recommend before doing it. Your dogs safety is paramount so do not compromise it by letting a vet take over, that's all I am saying. We will support you no matter what you decide as that is your choice. Please give us a brief history and weight on your dog. Know upfront the diagnostic phase is the most costly, but the cost will go down. Is you dog ill with anything else? If so this can skew his test results. So like the others suggested have you tested for diabetes, or thyroid problems as they have similar symptoms. Good luck to you and your baby. Blessings
Patti

[jackie]

Thanks everyone for replying and giving me advice. I gave thought a while back that she may have Cushings but didn't say so to her Vet. I want to say that this Vet has been seeing her for 10yrs so she knows her health issues. If this is Cushings, I wonder why it wasn't mentioned. Could be treatment for the severe arthritis is the priority. My dog is unable to walk on her own now, we have a sling to help her, she has lost control over her bowel movements, somehow she manages to let us know when to go outside to pee. I will list her meds, these are taken everyday at different intervals:

Gabapentin, Meloxicam, Tramadol Hcl, Salix, Enalapril.

She has fluid around her heart, an ultrasound suggested a tumor somewhere around the gall bladder (?). She also has an ongoing infection in her left sinus cavity that drains through her eye duct. May I say we adopted her through a shelter that took her in as a young dog from horrid conditions. She takes Cephalexin for this infection, this infection shows no sign of healing.

I'm also curious about the calcinosis cutis that was mentioned, I understand this causes extreme itchiness? if so, she shows no sign of scratching but it does appear to be CC (?).

I don't need to say how stressful it is taking care of a loved companion that is handicapped. Her long time companion died 2yrs ago. We are both 69 and feel we can't take in another companion.

Thanks for helping me understand Cushings.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Jackie, welcome to you and your baby girl! :)

Unfortunately, you are between a rock and a hard place. :( In your shoes, I would forget about the possibility of Cushing's and simply spend my time loving this baby as much as I could. Primarily because treating the Cushing's, should she actually have it, would make the arthritis that much worse. As others have said, the cortisol is "treating" the inflammation and to lower it would cause the pain level to soar. Another reason is that the testing for Cushing's would more than likely be skewed due to the stress she is already under from other conditions, returning a possible false positive. Cortisol is the body's natural normal response to stress of any kind, internal or external and the tests can only tell us the cortisol is elevated...but not why. ;)

I do want you to know that no matter what you decide, we will be by your side all the way. You and your baby girl are part of our family now and we stick by our family.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[doxiesrock912]

Jackie,

uncontrolled Cushings makes it harder to heal overall and this I'm sure is what is keeping the infections from clearing up.

It also causes muscle weakness and it is possible that some of what you thought was due to severe arthritis is actually due to Cushings. Many vets are not as famliar with this disease as we would like them to be.

Honestly, I would give treatment a try and see how things go. I say this because we also thought that much of Daisy's problems were related to arthritis but since we've had her on the correct dose of Trilostane, she has rebounded considerably more than I thought that we would. Daisy had also begun having accidents in the house but that stop almost as soon as we started treatment for Cushings.

I will suggest that you consult an IMS vet though. Treatment for Cushings will be a balancing act with treating for the arthritis. Once Cushings is controlled, you'll have a clearer picture of where the arthritis really stands.

Yes, high Cortisol helps with the arthritis but there are other symptoms that could be complicating the situation in my opinion, such as the muscle weakness from Cushings.

[jackie]

I forgot to add to my previous post that my girl has had 2 regimens of Adequan with no noticeable improvement in the pain and mobility. Also, I'm concerned if it is humane to put her through a regimen of tests, etc in her current condition. Her hind legs are nothing but skin and bone, she looks like a skelton with ribs sticking out, her neck has gotten so small but her head still looks normal. She's alert still unable to even change positions on her beds, we do not leave her alone. She currently weighs 50# down from 82# over a period of less than a year.

Jackie

[Renee]

I forgot to add to my previous post that my girl has had 2 regimens of Adequan with no noticeable improvement in the pain and mobility. Also, I'm concerned if it is humane to put her through a regimen of tests, etc in her current condition. Her hind legs are nothing but skin and bone, she looks like a skelton with ribs sticking out, her neck has gotten so small but her head still looks normal. She's alert still unable to even change positions on her beds, we do not leave her alone. She currently weighs 50# down from 82# over a period of less than a year.

Jackie

May I be blunt? This sounds much worse than just cushings, and I must agree with Leslie - you may be at the hospice point, just keeping her comfortable and loving her. If her body is this far gone, I don't think treating cushings (were she actually to have it) would be able to take care of everything you are describing.

That is just my opinion though, based on the information you have provided, and I could be wrong. Please don't think I am encouraging you to throw in the towel. You are part of this family here now, cushings or no, so we will be with you every step of the way.

[Squirt's Mom]

If it helps...my baby was 16 this Feb.; she is a smaller dog, tho, so the lifespan is expected to be longer than for a large dog. I treated Squirt's Cushing's until a year ago when she had a seizure. I stopped her treatment then and have not resumed it. She nearly died from that event and was at death's door again in Jan of this year but came back to me once again. I know each day now is a gift and we only do what we must to make her as happy and comfortable as possible. Her mind is slipping as her body fails but she still finds joy in her days. Squirt still loves meal times and treats and being loved on tho she often needs help walking and support while pottying, and has as many bad days as good. Her pain level is on up there but she refuses any and all meds that could help, barely tolerates the herbs I give her for inflammation. But I simply cannot justify increasing that pain level any more by lowering the cortisol nor can I justify adding harsh chemicals via drugs to an already failing system. And there is no way I can ask her to go through vet visit after vet visit, test after test at this point, I just can't. As magical as the treatment was for her while on it, today it would not have more benefit than harm in my belief. Were she a few years younger even with the issues she has today, it would be a different story but I can't roll back the years with drugs as much a I might wish to.

Maybe I am speaking from mine and Squirt's current place but I would do the same for your baby in your shoes - love her and care for her as long as she finds some joy in her days. It is a hard decision to come to but the time comes when it is really the only option left in this life... and Squirt and I are there. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

After the additional information you provided on your babies condition, I would
not put her thru the diagnostics as they do take a toll also. Not knowing if she has Cushing's would not be my main concern now. I would opt for making her as comfortable as possible and as happy as possible, if this were my dog and my choice that is what I would do. This is an extremely personal choice so we can't make it for you, but offer our support in what you choose. Blessings
Patti

[jackie]

You all are such a blessing. For now, we will hold back on doing more tests. I don't know if I could go through it, it's sad now watching her lay on her different beds that we have to carry her from one to the other. We can handle the incontinence and truthfully the pain regimen is quite a lot to handle. She's alert and she doesn't complain.

Her name is Melina.

She and I both thank everyone. I can see everyone here belongs to a caring family for their companions.

Thank you.

[goldengirl88]

God Bless you and your precious Melina. I know your heart is heavy. If I could have just one wish fulfilled, it would be that these babies had the lifespan of us humans. I think back over the years of the many pets that have left me, but none more precious than my Tipper. It is one of the saddest things in life, watching your best friend decline. I am sending you strength, and much admiration for your bravery. I will pray for Melina tonite. Blessings
Patti

[Budsters Mom]

I am so sorry to hear about your precious Melina. Cushings testing is expensive and takes a toll on our babies. Melina has multiple issues including severe arthritis. As the others have mentioned, high cortisol self medicates. If she were to be treated for Cushings, her arthritis would most likely become much worse. My Buddy's allergies went haywire after starting Cushings treatment.

I also believe that it's time to love your baby for all it's worth and make memories to last a lifetime. I had to release my little boy to run to the bridge last year. It was the right thing for him. I feel confident that you will make the right choice for Melina when that time comes.

Again, I am so sorry :o
Kathy

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too.

The others have covered all of the basics I think, but I do want to say hello and lend you my support.
It is not easy when they get older and have multiple health problems. My heart feels for you and Melina, it just isn't easy. As the others have already said, we support you and will be here no matter what or when.
We are one big family here.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Iraklis]

As others suggested...I would not treat (possible) cushings...too many tests and anxiety...

Instead you can give the best possible food!
Salmon, chicken breasts ,sardines,spinach juice...

You can also maybe ask the vet on supplements like this:
http://www.nuprosupplements.com/joint-and-immunity-support.html
It has a very good reputation at a google group of artemisinin treated cancer/tumor patient dogs ,of helping a lot!

It seems Melina still wants to live...she'll let you know when it is time...
Try not to worry about that ,as this takes precious energy you could spend being by her side petting, loving her and remembering all the fun times!!!

[flynnandian]

my bordercollie flynn's arthritis got worse after giving him vetoryl. his joints got inflamed and i had to put him asleep forever.
i would never give a g.s. with all this health issues vetoryl because of this.

[jackie]

You all were so kind with your words of advice and support. I must tell you Melina passed away this morning. She stayed strong throughout, we nursed her the best we could. She knew she was loved and cared for. We are hurting on our loss.

Thanks everyone for being here.

Jackie

[Squirt's Mom]

FRIEND

I lost a treasured friend today
The little dog who used to lay
Her gentle head upon my knee
And shared her silent thoughts with me.

She’ll come no longer to my call
Retrieve no more her favourite ball
A voice far greater than my own
Has called her to his golden throne.

Although my eyes are filled with tears
I am thankful for the happy years
She spent down here with me
And for her love and loyalty.

When it is time for me to go
And join her there, this much I know
I shall not fear the transient dark
For she will greet me with a bark.

~Author Unknown

[goldengirl88]

Jackie:
I am so sorry to learn of sweet Melina's passing. I know your heart is broken, and she if free from pain running with all the other babies that have crossed the bridge. God Bless you and sweet Melina.
Patti

[Renee]

I am so sorry Melina has passed. I know it must hurt for you, but it sounds like she has been ready for a while. She knew love and kindness with you. There is no better gift.

[pansywags]

I am so very sorry for your loss and pain. I feel sure that Melina knows how much you loved her.

[molly muffin]

Jackie, super big hugs to you as I am sure your heart is breaking at Melina's passing. What a wonderful gift you were to each other and that is what counts. Love.

my sincerest condolences
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Iraklis]

I am so very sorry...I am sure she knew she was loved!
My sincerest condolences!

[doxiesrock912]

Jackie,
my condolences on Jackie's passing. Hugs.

[cupcake0521]

Jackie,

So sorry about your sweet Melina passing.

Words cannot describe the sorrow, when one of our dear friends leaves our side.

[BreeandDaisy]

So sorry for your loss. I hope your happier memories of Melina help you through this difficult time.

[apollo6]

May Melina now be at peace. Sending loving prayers. We are here to support you through your grief.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo