1st post. Hope this works! (14 y/o Beagle) Vetoryl

[Beagles3]

:confused:Hello,

I'm glad I found this site. Full of answers to my many questions. My beagle Billy, was diagnosed about six months ago for Cushing's.
He is on veterol (sp) 60mgs. He did fine for awhile but he seems to be panting more than usual. He is 14, lumpy and a little stinky. All fine with me if he feels okay. Just worried about him. Anyone else have this happen with their dog? I wonder if he will need a med adjustment? Thanks for being here.
Cheryl

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. I am glad you found us, but sorry your poor Billy is having troubles. If you could get copies of all the testing done to confirm Cushings and post all the abnormals along with the normal scale provided by the lab, it will help us to see what is going on with Billy. Many diseases have similar symptoms to Cushing's. Was tyour dofg tested for diabetes or thyroid problems. Could you give us a brief history on Billy. Did he have any other issues going on when he was tested for Cushing's? What were the symptoms your dog had that made you get him tested for Cushing's? How much doesmBilly weigh? What mg Vetoryl was he started at, and how many times a day? Were you given prednisone and told what to watch for in the event of low cortisol? You will get a lot of information, and support on this forum. There is a lot of experience on this forum. Is you vet experienced with treating Cushing's? That is key to your dogs well being. Blessings
Patti

[mytil]

Hi and welcome from me as well.

I certainly would run an ACTH test now to check the cortisol levels and if there needs to be an adjustment made in his medication.

In fact, when you are able please post the results of the ACTH tests performed. These should have been done several weeks after you started Vetoryl and then about every 3 months thereafter depending upon symptoms.

Keep us posted
Terry

[molly muffin]

I agree with Terry, I'd have an ACTH run to see where his levels are at currently and if an adjustment needs to be made.

Welcome to the forum.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Hi Cheryl,
This happened with my dog several times. She seemed to hold for awhile on a dose and then the drinking started to increase and panting again too. We tweaked the dose for quite awhile.
It is getting warmer--depending on where you live, so perhaps this could account for some extra panting too. My dog is controlled but ever since being diagnosed she seems to have less tolerance for the warmer weather.
An acth test will give you the answers that you need. It's the way to find out if an adjustment is needed. The cortisol number combined with observation of symptoms will decide if you need to adjust the dose.

You may already know this but you can get smaller doses of the generic version of Vetoryl if you only need to increase/decrease a dose by a smaller amount than what the brand name comes in. Some vets don't seem to let people know this and only use the strengths that Vetoryl comes in-like 10, 20, 30 , 60 ad 120.
If you need to increase just a tad and not a whole 10mg you can order Trilostane in custom doses as long as it isn't a strength that the brand comes in.
Hope Billy continues to do well even if you need a tiny tweak in his med.

Barbara

[Beagles3]

Hi and thanks for the welcome! I love that dog like I do the rest of my kids and it just STINKS that he is old and sick. He moved into our hearts, got all comfy and we will keep him there forever. Okay enough of that! When our vet suggested it was Cushing's she wanted to do tests to make sure before starting any treatment. I believe he had two ACTH's done. I have a bad memory- I'm old too:) He had to spend a couple of days there and we didn't find out until a week or so later that it was Cushing's. The lab work had to be sent out to Michigan State Vet School to verify it. He's started on the Vetoryl at 60mgs twice a day. More tests were made and he his meds were reduced to 60mg once a day. He's done fine on that for the past six months but like I said the panting has started and he does seem to look for a cool place to lay. He likes the tile and wood floor best. It's been quite expensive but I don't care. As long as he isn't in pain or uncomfortable we'll keep moving forward. We had three beagles and he is our last one. I'll be calling the vet tomorrow and get him in. Again, thanks for your help.

[goldengirl88]

I think this dog was started way too high on the Vetoryl dosage. How much does he weigh?

[Beagles3]

I am going to have to insist that his ATCH checked. We have gone to this group of vets for years. They all know Billy but I am doubting their approach to this. She said since he didn't have any other symptoms it probably wasn't his Cushing 's. Looks we will be going back. Something needs to be changed and soon. Also he isn't a pure beagle. He is quite a bit bigger and taller than that. His weight is 40lbs. Will be getting him in tomorrow ASAP. I'm pretty scared about this. I will feel better- I hope - when I know what is going on.

[goldengirl88]

I think I would have started Billy on 40 mg trilostane. You know I am sure that you can get lower dosages at Diamondback Drugs. With the starting dose at 1mg per pound he was started way over this. Some dogs have a bad time if they are started to high. More and more I am seeing on here dogs struggling that have been started on a higher dose than they should be. Some dogs take time to become acclimated to this drug, they are powerful drugs and I always am an advocate of starting low and slow. Hope Billy gets turned around and feeling better. Blessings
Patti

[beaglemom3]

Hi Cheryl,
Welcome to the forum, but sorry you have the need to be here. I can't give any advice on Cushings I will leave that to all the experts here on the forums. But had to say hi to a fellow beagle lover. I have 2 beagles Snuggles (who has a pheochromocytoma) and Brando(possibly has a pheo and possibly Cushings and had a of cell tumor removed recently), my first beagle Cuddles passed away almost 15 years ago.

I hope Billy feels better and you can get his symptoms under control. This forum is filled with wonderful caring and very knowledgeable people.

arooooooooooooooo to Billy :)

[goldengirl88]

Hope all is going OK with Billy. Just wondering how his vet appointment went. Blessings
Patti

[Beagles3]

Hi Vicki, He actually seems better. Our vet started him on tramadol and I feel bad because that meant he was in pain. Where tho? Could be arthritis. He has had both his knees done for torn ACL a few years back. Might be arthritis in those. So back he goes and hope we find out where it is. I had to look up pheo. Never heard of it before. How do they treat that and does it affect their life span? We love beagles and I can't imagine being without one. We had three and he is the last of them. You love and they are no longer a dog. They become a part of your family. He always has a happy face and wagging tail to greet us and sometimes the arooooo. Hope everything turns out good for Snuggles and Brando. So sorry about Cuddles. They are here for such a short time and sure do leave a hole in your heart when they are gone. I love your quote and thanks for writing.

Cheryl and Billy

[goldengirl88]

Cheryl:
Hoping you and Billy have a blessed Easter, and that Billy is improving.
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

I had to look up pheo. Never heard of it before. How do they treat that and does it affect their life span?
Cheryl and Billy

We have a couple members whose dogs had/have pheochromocytomas and am providing links to their threads: Flynn 11 y/o Foxie Cross - Right adrenalectomy, 3rd Dec 2012 for Pheochromocytoma (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4242)

My Annie, 15 1/2 pheochromocytoma - Annie is now an angel running free (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=933)

Wish I could be of more help but I am sure members that have experience dealing with pheos will be along soon.

Hugs, Lori

[Beagles3]

Thank you all for taking the time to ask about Billy. One minute I think he is better and then like this morning things aren't quite the way they should be. Going to make another trip back to the vet and get him tested. I really think that will give us the answer. Hope you all have a Happy Easter.

Cheryl and her handsome man:) (Billy)

[goldengirl88]

Cheryl:
Don't feel bad that happens to Tipper and I also. One minute things are great and it can change in a split second. Happy Easter to you and Billy. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

I do hope the tests give you some answers for Billy. It's just awful having those off days where You know something isn't quite right, but not able to pin point what is causing it.!

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[FemaleK9]

I think 60mg twice a day was a very high dose to start with. It's best to start low and increase if necessary that to risk a massive overdose. It also seems best to dose twice a day to keep the medication level as even as possible, rather than one very large (possibly too large) followed by a drastic drop after 10 hours or so. My beagle, Rosie, weighed 32 lbs and was started at 10mg twice a day, and has been there ever since, so far.

Of course, every dog is different, and it would help us to help you if you could get the results of any LDDS or ACTH test that has been done so far and post them here. We will also need to know how any post-treatment tests were done. Any test done after treatment has begun should be administered within four hours of the dog being given the medication, with food, or the results could be misleading, possibly dangerously so.

You may need to be a bit more assertive with your vet than you are accustomed to; I did, but with the help and encouragement to the kind and knowledgeable folks here I found the gumption, and I'm so glad I did.

ETA If you are in the US, I recommend trilostane Gourmeds chewable tablets from Wedgewood Pharmacy (http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/pet-and-horse-owners/gourmeds-tasty-chewable-tablets.html). They make it so much easier to give the meds, simply drop in the dog's food, and much, much cheaper that the name brand, Vetoryl. At the 10mg strength, I get 200 tablets at a time for $109 including shipping, a 100 day supply for us. You can either get a prescription from your vet or have Wedgewood contact your vet for you, and they have been very friendly and helpful to me on the phone, which is the best way to contact them.

[lulusmom]

Hi Vicki and a belated welcome to you and Billy.

Please see my comments below in blue text within the body of your post.


He actually seems better. Our vet started him on tramadol and I feel bad because that meant he was in pain. Where tho? Could be arthritis. He has had both his knees done for torn ACL a few years back. Might be arthritis in those. So back he goes and hope we find out where it is.

Uncontrolled cushdogs are usually not feeling the pains of arthritis as cortisol is the body's natural anti-inflammatory. It is not until cortisol is lowered, that arthritis is unmasked and a dog begins to feel the aches and pains. If a recent acth stimulation test indicate that cortisol levels are within the published therapeutic range, then arthritis could be Billy's problem. Dogs with previous ACL injuries are at high risk of developing arthritis, even with surgery, so that is a distinct possibility. What evidence were you seeing that Billy may have been in pain and therefore prompted your vet to prescribe Tramadol?

I believe Patti already requested that you round up all the testing that was done by your vet to diagnose Billy and post the results here and I would like to second that request. If you will be taking Billy to the vet, please ask for copies of his records. We always recommend that you keep your own file with your dog's records. This will come in very handy if you ever have to take Billy to an emergency facility or specialist as these vets appreciate having the dog's history at their fingertips. It also comes in handy when we ask for information.

I had to look up pheo. Never heard of it before. How do they treat that and does it affect their life span?

Lori has already provided you with info on pheochromocytomas but I would like to add that unless you've had an abdominal ultrasound that shows evidence of an adrenal tumor, I wouldn't worry about it unless Billy is displaying some of the symptoms of Pheos that are not commonly associated with cushings. Did your vet do an abdominal ultrasound or other test to determine which form of cushing's Billy has? If so, can you tell us if he has pituitary or adrenal dependent disease? For clarification, the vast majority of dogs, 85% to 90% of dogs have a pituitary tumor which is responsible for their symptoms. The remaining have a functional adrenal tumor which over secretes cortisol, independent of the pituitary gland. Adrenal tumors can be surgically removed and a total cure; however, it is an expensive and risky proposition, especially if the dog is very senior. Drug therapy would be the same for either form of the disease.

I'll be looking forward to hearing more about your precious Billy.

Glynda

[goldengirl88]

Please know you are getting excellent help from Glynda, and she is like an encyclopedia of information. I hope your sweet Billy will improve and go on for many more years. That is just wonderful that he is 17, you are a good mom. Blessings
Patti