chewy new with cushing (12 y/o chinese crested)

[crestedluvr]

Hi my name is Lynne my 12 year old chinese crested, chewy was just diagnosed
With cushing. Well wed we do the difinitive test, but his blood work
Is showing all signs of cushings. Im looking forward to learning
more from this forum. I have been hearing problems with the drugs, i know
its a poison. So would love opinions on the holistic approach.
Thanks everyone :)

[Iraklis]

Hello and welcome!

What are the bloodwork numbers that lead your vet to Cushings?

P.S.Do NOT start medication like Vetoryl/Lysodren until Cushings is 100% verified!

[crestedluvr]

Hi the bloodwork is so out of wack but it was the ALP being 3060 (5-160 range)
ALT is 1417 (18-121)
AST is 172 range (15-55)
No he wont give any meds til we do the real test.
He has alot of things off his cholesterol was high, and hes anemic.
Just not sure what to do

[Iraklis]

Do you have plans to do an ultrasound(belly) and/or liver biopsy?
What test is the vet planning to do?

What worries me is the high ALT number...not so much the ALP...

Pretty sure milk thistle and/or SAM-e wouldn't hurt anything even b4 testing...just confirm this with your vet and give'em (both asap)...

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Lynne,

Welcome to you and your boy! I am so glad you found your way here but I am sorry for the reasons the brought you to us.

Cushing's is one of the most difficult diseases to diagnose and unfortunately, it is also one of the most misdiagnosed. There isn't just one test that is conclusive, so a vet has to rely on more than one diagnostic and validation test. The tests that are usually performed to diagnose Cushing's are the LDDS (8 hour test), ACTH (1 or 2 hour test), and/or an ultrasound. Which tests does the vet want to perform to diagnose the Cushing's?

Strong symptoms are a huge part of making the diagnosis, and a Cushing's savvy vet will not initiate any treatment without strong symptoms and a proper diagnosis. Could you tell what symptoms your boy is displaying? Also how much does he weigh and is he taking any other herbs/supplements/medicines?

The two drugs generally used to treat Cushing's are Vetoryl/Trilostane and Lysodren/Mitotane. Yes they are strong drugs but they are also life savers for dogs with Cushing's. Usually adverse reactions are only seen when the proper protocols are not followed. Cushing's is a treatable disease but success does depend on keen owner observation along with a vet/IMS that is knowledgeable and experienced in the treatment protocols for Cushing's.

Usually with Cushing's we see a very high ALP with a moderate elevation in the ALT, both of which are liver enzymes, your boy's ALT and AST are unusually high and that has me a bit concerned about his liver. So I believe I would have a look at the liver either by ultrasound or having a bile acid test done to check to see how the liver is functioning.

Please know we are here to help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome.

I am very concerned about Chewy as the ALKP may be consistent with cushing's but the ALT and AST are certainly not. Unless there is something else going on, dogs with cushing's are also not anemic. What symptoms does Chewy have that are associated with cushing's? Excessive drinking and urination? Voracious appetite? Panting? Muscle Wasting? Pot Belly? Skin issues? Can you please post all high and low blood values and please include the normal reference ranges? Sorry for all the questions but based on the little information you have posted, I believe Chewy may have something a lot more serious than cushing's going on.

Glynda

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry Chewy is having troubles. Can you give a brief history on Chewy, including any illnesses, weight, etc. What are the symptoms that Chewy had that made you take him to the vet. You need thorough diagnostic testing before you can confirm a Cushing's diagnosis. Please do not treat for Cushing's until you post the abnormal testing results on here. It would seem your dog has more of a liver problem from the results you gave us. You do not want to treat a dog for Cushing's that does not have it. After you post the results we will be able to help you better. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and Chewy! :)

I wanted to second Glynda - it sounds to me as if Cushing's needs to be put on the back burner and the focus be on why those liver enzymes, ALT and AST, are so high. I think my first step would be an abdominal ultrasound to get a look at the liver as well as other organs.

To help you understand - cortisol is the body's natural response to any stress, internal or external. So when the system is under stress from another illness, the tests for Cushing's can present false-positives, resulting in starting treatment with powerful drugs for a condition that does not actually exists - while the real problem goes undetected.

Would you mind posting all the values from the blood work that were abnormal? Any that are too high or too low along with the normal ranges and little letters that follow. It would look something like -

ALP 1350 ug/dl 150 - 500 (EXAMPLE)

The most common Cushing's signs are as follows -

http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html
• increased/excessive water consumption (polydipsia)
• increased/excessive urination (polyuria)
• urinary accidents in previously housetrained dogs
• increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
• appearance of food stealing/guarding, begging, trash dumping, etc.
• sagging, bloated, pot-bellied appearance
• weight gain or its appearance, due to fat redistribution
• loss of muscle mass, giving the appearance of weight loss
• bony, skull-like appearance of head
• exercise intolerance, lethargy, general or hind-leg weakness
• new reluctance to jump on furniture or people
• excess panting, seeking cool surfaces to rest on
• symmetrically thinning hair or baldness (alopecia) on torso
• other coat changes like dullness, dryness
• slow regrowth of hair after clipping
• thin, wrinkled, fragile, and/or darkly pigmented skin
• easily damaged/bruised skin that heals slowly
• hard, calcified lumps in the skin (calcinosis cutis)
• susceptibility to infections (especially skin and urinary)
• diabetes, pancreatitis, seizures

What of these signs have you observed in Chewy? What prompted the vet to start testing in the first place?

Glad you found us and I look forward to learning more as time passes.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[crestedluvr]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Wed we are doing the test that takes an hour or so. His symptoms are very thirsty, hungry, he goes in the house, head is like a skull, dry skin, he had a pot belly. At first i thought it was old age, he did lose 3 pounds in a year and i feed him alot.
I may have milk thistle here, ill start him on it if i do i need to call the vet back tomorrow.
Ill post the results in a separate post in a bit thanks everyone

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I don't know if it is feasible for you or not, but an ultrasound might help to determine what is going in inside of Chewy. We've seen some higher numbers with gall bladder sludge causing problems too.

So, really need to determine what exactly is causing the very high numbers. Did this just come on? When was his last test, cbc? Where the numbers that high then?

Welcome again
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Just wanted to add that losing weight is not something Cush dogs do. They gain weight and are ravenous all the time. I think there may be something else going on here. B!essings
Patti

[crestedluvr]

2 years ago he had a CBC, jan/feb he started going to the bathroom in the house. But since he has no hair every year in winter he would have accidents. I have to call my vet tomorrow, ill ask him thanks.

[Iraklis]

could you also post the WBC (white blood cell count), including its ''subdivisions''? Most particularly the LYMPH count?

[crestedluvr]

His WBC was 15.5 range. 4.9-17.6 k/ul
RBC 4.4 range 5.39-8.70 M/ul
HCT 29.5 range 38.3-56.5%
Ill post his abnormal things
Albumin 4.0 (2.7-3.9 g/dl)
GGT 16 (0-13u/l)
Total protein 8.1 (5.5-7.5 g/dl)
Globulin 4.1 (2.4-4.0 g/dl)
Cholesterol 512 (131-345mg/dl)
Calcium 7.0 (8.8-11.2mg/dl)
Potassium 5.7 (4.0-5.4 mmol/L)
Auto platelet 822 (143-448K/uL)

[goldengirl88]

If he is going potty in the house in the winter time only, I would think that is more in line with not wanting to go out in the cold? Can you put a coat on him? Maybe that would help you see if that is why he is doing this. Blessings
Patti

[Renee]

I don't have anything to add, as everyone is covering it quite well, but I wanted to pop in say how much I love cresteds. Do you have the hairless or powder-puff variety? I've had a few come through rescue, and they are just amazing little guys!

[crestedluvr]

Thats what i first thought but hes still doing it not every day but seems about every other, and being 12 i thought maybe age to? Hes hairless i have 5 of them, one came from rescue. He wears sweaters usually in winter. I had my first crested with diabetes, it was similiar but misfit, my first, didnt get the muscle loss or skull head. Is there a possibility this could all be from a tumor in the liver?

[goldengirl88]

Have you had an ultra sound done? I would not discount the liver as the cause. Having an ultra sound let's them see the other organs and the adrenals. It can help rule in or eliminate other problems. Blessings
Patti

[crestedluvr]

No i have not, well im going to mention it tomorrow to him. I think thats a good idea