Proin

[ljcornell]

I agree with Leslie. The appetite associated with cushings is quite different from the average dog. My girl will literally wake me up multiple times a night to eat. She eats kleenex, any trash, basically anything. And is always hungry. She used to take treats so nicely, but now she wants the food so bad that she will bite my fingers to get to it quicker. She even started choking on her food, she was trying to eat it so fast!

For the incontinence, have you tried anything like proin to help with that?

Hi, Renee!

No, I haven't given Harley proin for incontinence. The only thing I've tried is Bladder Support vitamins and blueberry/cranberry treats. I'm not very consistent giving him the vitamins mainly because they seem to make it worse rather than better. I am interested in proin? Is it prescription or over the counter. I've looked for over the counter stuff, but haven't had any luck finding anything.

Thanks for your help, Renee!

[goldengirl88]

Lisa:
Please do not give Proin, it is really bad stuff. Asked Leslie on here and she can tell you. This product has caused a lot of deaths. Blessings
Patti

[Renee]

Lisa:
Please do not give Proin, it is really bad stuff. Asked Leslie on here and she can tell you. This product has caused a lot of deaths. Blessings
Patti

I guess I will have to disagree, and say that each person must decide for themselves. I have known several rescue dogs that successfully used proin, and it improved their quality of life. And they are still alive.

[goldengirl88]

Proin used to be used in women, until it was killing them off from strokes and heart attacks. It does the same thing to dogs and give them high blood pressure too. I would never ever even think of using this crap. I would rather have a dog with a wet doggy diaper, than a dead dog. Bad stuff but I respect your opinion on it. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Proin nearly killed Squirt.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AnimalV.../UCM296349.pdf


Table 6: Adverse reactions in the 28-day placebo-controlled clinical study
Adverse Reactions
PROIN
-
treated (N=123) (first number)
Placebo (N=61) (second number)

Emesis 20.3% 8.2%
Hypertension (≥ 160 mm Hg) 19.5% 14.7%
Anorexia 16.3% 3.3%
Body weight loss (≥5%) 16.1% 6.8%
Proteinuria 13.0% 8.2%
Anxiety/aggression/behavior change 9.7% 3.2%
Diarrhea 7.3% 9.8%
Polydipsia 6.5% 9.8%
Lethargy 5.7% 1.6%
Musculoskeletal disorder .2% 1.6%
Insomnia/sleep disorder 2.5% 0.0%

She experienced all of these but I put them off to other things for nine months. The drug caused a seizure then that she nearly didn't survive. It was 2-3 months before she was past the crisis and has lasting effects still today.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/25...ects-of-proin/


Allergic Reaction

Dogs that are allergic to phenylpropanolamine or any of the components of Prion should not be treated with this medication. Improper use of Proin by hypersensitive dogs may induce a severe and potentially life-threatening allergic reaction. Symptoms of a hypersensitive reaction in dogs include weakness, seizures, pale gums, facial swelling and difficulty breathing. Dogs who exhibit any of these side effects after taking a dose of Prion should be transported to an emergency veterinarian clinic immediately.

Not all dogs react like Squirt did but enough have around the world that this drug has been banned in some countries for both humans and animals. If you wish to use Proin, that is of course your choice but I will never allow another dog in my care take one single dose. ;)

[labblab]

I'm gonna be a bit of a devil's advocate here regarding the use of Proin, because I also know a couple of folks who have given it to their dogs and have been pleased with the results. Out of curiosity, I followed the FDA link to the drug's product application and admittedly only skimmed the contents, but the report's conclusion is that the drug is generally safe and effective when used as recommended. In looking at this listed table of side effects, three of the listed effects were actually more common in the placebo group than in the treatment group.

Emesis 20.3% 8.2%
Hypertension (≥ 160 mm Hg) 19.5% 14.7%
Anorexia 16.3% 3.3%
Body weight loss (≥5%) 16.1% 6.8%
Proteinuria 13.0% 8.2%
Anxiety/aggression/behavior change 9.7% 3.2%
Diarrhea 7.3% 9.8%
Polydipsia 6.5% 9.8%
Lethargy 5.7% 1.6%
Musculoskeletal disorder .2% 1.6%
Insomnia/sleep disorder 2.5% 0.0%

Interestingly, neither stroke nor seizure (except as an acute allergic reaction) are listed as adverse effects that were associated with this drug when used in dogs, even though increased risk of stroke was the reason the drug has been prohibited for human use.


Phenylpropanolamine was once available in numerous forms on the shelves of every drug store but two problems have changed that. The first problem is that this drug was found to cause an increase in the incidence of strokes and cerebral hemorrhage in people age 18 to 49. The second problem is that phenylpropanolamine can be used in the illegal production of methamphetamine. The drug was withdrawn from the human market and restrictions have been placed on quantities of the veterinary product that can be ordered at one time. Fortunately for dogs, phenylpropanolamine is a generally safe drug for dogs and has been a great boon in the treatment of urinary incontinence.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=614&S=0&EVetID=3004065

Most current veterinary drug sites that I have visited do express cautions re: using Proin in dogs with known cardiac/renal issues or pre-existing elevated blood pressure. So it might be a very good idea to first check the blood pressure in any dog for whom the drug is being considered. And certainly, the drug should be discontinued for any dog who does experience ill effects as Squirt did. But overall, it does not seem to me to be considered a drug that is generally unsafe for veterinary use.

FWIW, here's a link to a fairly detailed article by Mary Strauss on Dogaware.com that discusses a number of features/remedies (including Proin) that may be helpful in addressing canine incontinence:

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjincontinence.html

Marianne

[Renee]

Well, I would certainly never recommend something known to kill dogs / women, but as Marianne pointed out, there are some for whom this drug has worked well. I can name off at least three dogs I know in the rescue community that used this drug and has success.

I guess the point would be that each person must decide for themselves, based on their own research. I only brought up the proin as a possibility or something to consider when dealing with incontinence, if that is a big issue.

[labblab]

P.S. question to Leslie: I see that there is a specific contraindication to giving Anipryl and Proin at the same time (can result in excessive fluctuations in blood pressure). NSAIDS and Amitraz (in some tick control products) also carry this risk. Was Squirty on Anipryl at the same time as the Proin? If so, perhaps that could account for some of her discomfort...

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

I respectfully disagree. If someone came to me and said they had a drug that would help Tipper's incontinence, but it could cause high blood pressure, stroke or heart attack, I am sorry but that is a deal breaker for me. It is everywhere that this drug is dangerous, but I have never seen anything saying it is safe, so that is indisputable to me.

[Squirt's Mom]

No Squirt hadn't started the Selegiline when she was on Proin.

[labblab]

I respectfully disagree. If someone came to me and said they had a drug that would help Tipper's incontinence, but it could cause high blood pressure, stroke or heart attack, I am sorry but that is a deal breaker for me. It is everywhere that this drug is dangerous, but I have never seen anything saying it is safe, so that is indisputable to me.
Patti, like you guys, I am seriously interested in getting to the bottom of the risks. But I have not found any research linking Proin with stroke or heart attacks in dogs. From what I have read, it can cause minor elevations in blood pressure so dogs with already higher levels probably should not take it. But I am not finding any veterinary medicine sites that say the drug is particularly dangerous for dogs who don't have pre-existing conditions associated with cardiac issues or high blood pressure. In fact, I've repeatedly seen the opposite -- that it is generally a relatively safe drug that can offer good results.

I've seen hyperthyroidism and diabetes mellitus noted as conditions that can raise concern. And for the purposes of our forum here, I can imagine that Cushing's is not the best combo, either, due to risks of pre-existing hypertension. I can certainly understand why you would not think it a good choice for Tipper. But I am not seeing the blanket warnings that you and Leslie are speaking about. Can you give us some citations?

Marianne

[labblab]

I've just been doing some more searching and this is one of the more technical write-ups that I've seen of possible adverse side effects, including when used at therapeutic levels and also when the drug is overdosed. The possible side effects at therapeutic level pretty much mirror those in the earlier FDA link. When overdosed, apparently seizures are possible.

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Toxicology/Toxicology-Brief-Phenylpropanolamine-toxicosis-in-/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/755828


Adverse effects can potentially be seen at therapeutic doses and include restlessness, urine retention, anorexia, tachycardia, and hypertension. Stroke-like clinical signs have been reported rarely in dogs at therapeutic doses of PPA.1

The most common clinical finding of PPA toxicosis [overdose] is hypertension secondary to peripheral vasoconstriction. A reflex bradycardia can be seen.4 Other clinical manifestations of toxicosis may include piloerection, vomiting, tachypnea, anxiety or agitation, hyperthermia, tachycardia, tremors, and potential seizures.1

[pansywags]

My vet's office prescribed Proin to Pansy with the approval of the local IMS I saw prior to Davis. It had very little effect on her incontinence (night accidents and occasional overflow leakage) so I stopped giving it to her.

[Squirt's Mom]

I need to find the FDA site Doc reported Squirt's reactions to...they are, or were, collecting info on Proin.

[Budsters Mom]

Hi gals,
I know nothing about Proin. I am just thrilled to see Marianne posting! It is reassuring to know that she is still hanging out looking over our shoulders.

GREAT TO SEE YOU MARIANNE! :D:D:D xxxxx

[labblab]

Oh Kathy, you're a goof, but a very sweet goof!! :p :) :p :)

On another note, I've got a cold and just pulled out my box of decongestant and found all the same exact warnings as for Proin...:o

But it's pseudoephedrine, so hopefully the risk of stroke is "out," at least! Right now, I cannot breathe at all so that tablet is goin' down the hatch. :eek:

[lulusmom]

It is well known that reporting of adverse events for drugs, especially veterinary drugs, are grossly under reported. Volume of reported signs according to the FDA adverse events data for Phenylpropanolamine doesn't appear to be indicative of a problematic drug; however, numbers tend to be irrelevant if it's your dog that is having a bad reaction to a drug. I personally have had two dogs, both foster dogs, who did not do well on Proin and started acting like they had dementia within a week of starting treatment. I've polled many vets about Proin and all claim to have never experienced any problem with the drug. All we can do is educate ourselves on whatever drug we are going to put on or in our pets, as few vets, at least in my experience, never sit down with us and go over the list of adverse effects, what drugs are contraindicated, etc. The only drugs I've ever been counseled on are Trilostane and Mitotane and I firmly believe the only reason I received that counseling was because the vet was an internal medicine specialist. Here are the top signs reported to FDA for Proin:

[Sign:] Vomiting Number of times reported: [10]
[Sign:] Depression/lethargy Number of times reported: [8]
[Sign:] Anorexia Number of times reported: [6]
[Sign:] Convulsion(s) Number of times reported: [6]
[Sign:] Ataxia Number of times reported: [5]
[Sign:] Pressure Hi, Bld Number of times reported: [5]
[Sign:] Polypnea Number of times reported: [4]
[Sign:] Tachycardia Number of times reported: [4]
[Sign:] Congestion, Skin Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Death Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Nervousness Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Pd-odor, Abn Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Sgpt/alt Hi, Bld Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Vocalization Number of times reported: [3]
[Sign:] Anisocoria Number of times reported: [2]
[Sign:] Confusion Number of times reported: [2]
[Sign:] Creatinine Hi, Bld Number of times reported: [2]
[Sign:] Diarrhea Number of times reported: [2]