britgal (Jack Russell)

[britgal]

I rescued a Jack Russell 2 years ago and discovered he has food allergies and he is on Hypoallergenic food which has helped. I discovered that he drank little water which I thought was strange. but this past month he began drinking a lot of water and was ravenously hungry and gained wait and he developed cataracts and his sight seems to be failing fast. He was tested for diabetes and kidney problems, both negative. My vet suggested it could be Cushing's and to monitor him so I did my research. He has gained weight, and appeared to have many of the symptoms. He developed what I think is a weakness in one of his back legs. I have to carry him up and down the steps to relieve himself. Now suddenly he is not eating and not drinking as much water. His leg is OK one day and not another. Large icicles have been crashing from my roof and he is terrified of the noise and has taken to sleeping under the bed and sleeps most of the time. He is being tested fro Cushing's in 3 days. I live in a small community and my vet says he does not have to fast and he sends the blood to another lab, but from all I have read, this seems to be lacking what the normal testing is and I am afraid he might be misdiagnosed. With his complete opposite not eating or drinking a lot I am at a loss. Can anyone please give me some insight on how he should be tested? Thank you

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. I have a Jack Russell named Tipper. I am shocked at the amount of dogs from this breed that have Cushing's. Sorry your baby is having troubles. First I want to ask if you had a thyroid test panel done? Thyroid disease shares some of the same symptoms as Cushing's.Cushing's dogs drink buckets of water and pee a river. They do have ravenous appetites, pot belly and hind leg weakness. If you test your dog for Cushing's and there are other illnesses going on, it can skew the testing. There is an LDDS test which they are usually fasted for. An ACTH test, a CBC, an ultra sound that are all used to diagnose Cushing's. If it were my dog I would do then thyroid panel, and you can do a Urine Creatinine test that will rule out Cushing's but not diagnose it. If that shows no Cushing's I would be looking into other causes. You dog does have several symptoms. The not eating is not consistent with Cushing's. The weight gain is what we see with Cushing's. Once you get the testing done you will want to post the abnormal numbers on here for us too see. That way we can see what is going on and help you. I caution you do not treat a dog for Cushing's unless you have a diagnosis, and the vet is experienced in Cushing's diagnostics and treatment. Jack Russell's can be sensitive to medication. If you treat with trilostane you need to start low no !after what the vet says. This will give your dogs body time to adapt to the drug with less of a chance of complications. The correct amount is 1 mg per pound. Post your testing results and we will help you with this. This disease is not curable, but is manageable with a vigilant owner. Can you tell us how old of a dog this is approx. since I know you rescued it and I thank you for that? How much does it weigh? Any other symptoms you are seeing? Are you sure the diabetes was negative? Blessings
Patti

[britgal]

Thank you for this information. They think he was 7-10 2 years ago so 9-12 now supposedly. I have not been happy with my vet at all in the past, but he is the only vet for 100's of miles. Today my Jack is going up and down the steps slowly by himself and we went on a short walk where he wanted to run. No sign of any leg weakness. My vet suggested we could test him again for diabetes in a couple of weeks, but when his back leg gave out I called and he said Cushing's was a possibility. Is it normal to do a single blood test with no fasting to begin with? All the information I have found suggests the longer ACTH testing with no mention to a preliminary test. I have not done thyroid testing, but will suggest this to my vet. I will follow up on Monday. Thank you again.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi and welcome to you and your baby! :)

Cushing's doesn't come on suddenly nor does it come and go. Typically the signs get stronger and stronger over time without treatment. So this may not be Cushing's...yet it might. ;)

The longer test for Cushing's is the LDDS - taking 8 hours. The ACTH is a 1-2 hour test. Both are used to diagnose but the ACTH is the only one used to monitor once treatment is started. Fasting does not matter during the diagnostic phase but can during monitoring depending on which drug the pup in on. For now, fasting isn't an issue with the cush tests. Most vets send these tests out to outside labs since very few vet clinics are equipped for them.

I would also recommend the abdominal ultrasound if you can afford it. This test can aid in diagnosing Cushing's and go a long way toward determining which form is present plus give you a good look at other internal organs which may have a problem causing the changes seen. It is the test that "gives the biggest bang for the buck" as one of our members here says. This test saved my baby's life by finding a tumor on her spleen.

I'm glad you found us and look forward to learning more as time passes. Never hesitate to ask questions - we will do all we can to help you. That's what family is for, ya know! :)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.
I'm trying to remember, but I think ACTH is non fasting even before medication and definitely non fasting once you are on medication.
I think that for the LDDS tests that my dog was fasting.
Have you had any regular blood work, like a wellness panel? If so you could post any of the abnormal high/low results with range?
for example:
02/08/2014
ALKP 525ug range 20 - 120ug

That will help us to give better feedback.
Drinking alot and peeing alot, can be cushings, but doesn't usually come on quickly. Was a UTI checked for via culture? Is the urine dilute? If urine is appropriately concentrated, it is less likely to be cushings. Not eating/drinking isn't a sign of cushings, its normally the opposite.

Wow, only vet within 100s of miles!!! You might end up having to teach the vet a thing or do to get everything ruled out and how to do it. No fear, we're right here and will help you all we can.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[britgal]

You are all a wealth of information and I too was surprised when my Jack did a 360 from ravenous eating, drinking water to not eating and drinking a lot and now walking and running as though nothing is wrong with his leg. I am to say the least confused, and my hopes and fears have been on a yo-yo this past 3 days. I now feel confident to go to my vet with these questions and I certainly will be in touch with results. Thank you all for your support. I have been so worried for Ralphie and so uncertain of the right thing to do for him. He has many issues and not knowing his background I feel he deserves the best because he is the best. When I discovered his issues I contacted out local Humane Society with more questions about him and they suggested I bring him back. I told them no matter what, Ralphie has found his forever home. I am so happy I found this forum and all you wonderful people.

[Tina]

Hi, and welcome from me too!

So it sounds like you haven't done any of the diagnostic tests for Cushing's yet, correct? Has a chemistry profile been done including liver enzymes, and were any of the liver values elevated?

Increased drinking and urinating can be symptoms of liver problems also, but elevated liver enzymes can also be related to Cushing's. As others have mentioned, the symptoms overlap with a lot of other illnesses. Thyroid issues, diabetes, liver and kidney issues should all be ruled out before considering Cushing's. And a UTI should also be checked for as Sharlene mentioned.

This is a great forum with lots of knowledgeable folks, and everyone is here to help.

Tina and Jasper

[goldengirl88]

Hi again, I forgot to mention to you when you said about the cataracts that Jack Russell's are prone to eye disease. High blood pressure from Cushing's can affect them too. Sharlene I did read where Dr. Patterson posted that the results will be no good on the ACTH if the dog is fasted. Tipper ate for her ACTH diagnostic and regular monitoring tests also. He said if there is no food the Vetoryl will not be absorbed properly and the test results are no good. Also Tipper did fast for the LDDS. Your best bet since you only have one vet to go to is doing what I do. I come on here and post before doing anything with my dog, or to find out how certain things should be done, and you will be better off that way you will now if what the vet is proposing to do it right. You always need a system of checking on whoever is treating your dog to make sure things go as they should. Most of the vets have little knowledge of this disease or how to treat it. You can help your dog by checking stuff out on here first and then going over it with the vet. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

yea it was the LDDS I couldn't remember if she was fasted for, I know never with the ACTH.
I am pretty sure she was fasted for the LDDS.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Again, my understand is the ACTH for diagnosis won't be affected by fasting - it is the monitoring ACTH after treatment has started where it matters...and then only with Vetoryl. It doesn't matter one way or the other with Lysodren. ;)

[britgal]

Tina, thank you for your input. Ralphie was tested only for Diabetes and Kidney both negative. Before he is tested tomorrow I am going to ask many questions, because today he is not eating and is not drinking a lot of water but has been sleeping all night and again all morning. These on/off symptoms seem strange. Last week he was whimpering when his food bowl was empty and wanted to eat 3 bowls full a day, this weekend barely half of his normal bowl. He just keeps plopping down and snoring so this does not sound like Cushing's even though all the symptoms were there last week. I will post after our vet visit tomorrow. Thank you all.

[lulusmom]

Hi and a belated welcome to you and Ralphie.

I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but I am glad you found us. We'll help you and Ralphie in any way we can and it would certainly help us if you can provide more information. Did your vet do a senior screening? This would include blood chemistry, complete blood count (CBC) and urinalysis, including a culture. If so, can you please get copies of those and post the results here? I see that your vet did test for diabetes and while that is usually part of the blood chemistry, it is also an inhouse test for blood glucose only. I personally wouldn't spend money on an ACTH or an LDDS right now as Ralphie has no symptoms associated with cushing's and it doesn't sound as if any preliminary screening has been done yet. As Leslie mentioned previously, cushing's symptoms do not normally wax and wane so I would be very interested to see if the urine specific gravity is low or if any of the common abnormalities show up on blood tests. Urine specific gravity is always low in dog with cushing's who are drinking and peeing buckets. Urine is is very dilute so it is clear and odorless in most cases. Typical blood abnormalities are elevated liver enzymes (primarily alkphosphatase), cholesterol, triglycerides; mildly elevated glucose and low T4. There are others but these are the most common.

Looking forward to hearing lots more about Ralphie.

Glynda

[britgal]

Ralphie was at the vet today but he is holding off on the Cushing's test because his symptoms changed rapidly over the weekend. He slept for close to 24 hours and is now not eating or drinking. Vet instead examined his back and the leg which is week and now hurting badly and discovered that he has hurt his back and that is why his leg is weak. Sciatic nerve damage and we did have an 18 inch blizzard where Ralphie could barely move and lifted his hind half up balancing on his front legs. The vet said it is painful to wee etc. so he is not eating and drinking to avoid going. Still have to watch if the other symptoms return, but for now dealing with this. Thank you all for your advise. This is a wonderful site and it has helped me immensely. Ralphie has been whimpering all day, even with a shot and pain pills, but has finally fallen asleep. Although I know he's hurting right now, I feel at least this is so much better than Cushing's

[molly muffin]

Definitely do not worry about cushings right now. When they are hurt, their cortisol rises, so it wouldn't be accurate anyhow.
My molly had a hurt back this winter and I spent weeks caring here even up or down one step, no jumping onto or off of anything. I basically worked from home for 6 weeks. It was worth it though, although always the risk that it will come back.

Hang in there!
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I agree I would concentrate on the back issue right now. Do you have any laser treatment in your area? It helped my Tipper a lot when she tore her ACL. Blessings
Patti