What to do?

[Slimmy]

Hi,

My 12.5 year old jack Russell jet has been drinking a ton of water and peeing just as much. He has also lost a lot of weight going from about 23lbs to 15lbs. When I took him to the vet around 3 weeks ago, he was diagnosed with diabetes, but the vet mentioned there was one result that suggested cushing's. After the first test, the vet decided to start jet on canine insulin (4 units twice daily). After the first follow up 7 days into treatment,his glucose levels were not showing significant improvement, so we changed the does to 5 units every 12 hours. After another 7 days, his checkup still wasn't showing significant improvement, so the vet decided to switch the treatment to vetoryl, assuming the lack if results on insulin must mean cushing's. It's now been 7 days on the vetoryl and jet is getting worse. His appetite is decreasing, he has very little energy, and he seems to be losing more weight. I'm not really trusting my vet at this point, but I really don't know what to do next. Do I continue to treat him for cushing's? If he doesn't start to get better soon, I'm afraid he won't last much longer.

Thanks,

Ryan

[Junior's Mom]

Hi Ryan, welcome to the forum. Please stop the vetoryl immediately. It should never be given to a sick dog, and it is questionable if your dog even has cushings. There is a sister site, K9 diabetes that will be really helpful for you to join. Did your vet give you any prednisone in case of emergencies?
Cushings is a slow progressing disease, so there is no rush to treat. It is also one of the hardest to diagnose.
If your pup does not improve, a trip to an emergency vet may be in order.
It would be really helpful if you could tell us a little more about your dog, symptoms, weight etc. and what tests have been done so far.
Tracey

[Iraklis]

Hi and welcome!

STOP Vetoryl until further results from testing!

Do you observe any muscle wasting?

Also...are there any other weird symptoms arising like walking in circles, aimless pacing and head-pressing on walls ?

[labblab]

Do you mean your vet stopped the insulin altogether even though Jet's glucose level remains too high? Cushing's treatment alone will not lower excessively high glucose levels, even if Jet truly has the disease. Here's a direct link to the diabetes forum. I urge you to join them immediately to discuss Jet's glucose issues:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Ryan,

Welcome to you and Jet! Glad you found us but sorry for the circumstances that led you to need us.

I, too, strongly urge you to join our sister site which deals with canine diabetes. The caring and loving folks there can help you immensely with Jet's diabetes.

If this were me, I would stop the Vetoryl and concentrate on getting the diabetes under control. Diabetes and Cushing's share many of the same symptoms but dog's with Cushing's rarely lose their appetite. Also uncontrolled diabetes can create false positive results on the tests for Cushing's, what tests did your vet perform and could you get copies and post the results here?

One of the top Cushing's expert, Dr Peterson, has an article on his blog regarding a dog with diabetes and also is suspected of having Cushing's. An excerpt from his article:
The problem with diabetic dogs is that it's very difficult to make a diagnosis of Cushing's with certainty unless we see cutaneous changes. PU/PD, polyphagia, and high liver values all could be secondary to the diabetes. False-positive test results on a LDDST are very common in dogs with nonadrenal illness, such as diabetes

The full article can be found here: Q & A: Diagnosing Cushing's Disease in Dogs with Diabetes Mellitus (http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/01/q-diagnosing-cushings-disease-in-dogs.html)

Please know we will help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh, honey! Run, do not walk, RUN from this vet! :eek: Get Jet into another vet asap - today! Cushing's is not life threatening but diabetes is IMMEDIATELY life threatening so the focus must be on the diabetes. I am horrified by what this vet has done! :eek: I don't mean to scare you but I do mean to put a fire under your butt. ;)

And do get on over to our sister site - they are the experts on canine diabetes and will be able to give you the best guidance.

Please let us know how Jet is doing!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Renee]

Wow, just wow.

Time and again, people come here and post what their vets are doing.... and I am just blown away. It is unimaginable that some vets are so uninformed about cushings and the proper protocols.

I am so sorry your vet is one of those vets. It is not your fault of course.

Like every one else has already said: stop the vetoryl immediately, then get in to see a new vet right away.

[pansywags]

Ryan, I am so sorry for the reasons that brought you here to seek help for Jet. It's unfortunate that Cushing's diagnosis and treatment is so challenging for so many of the vets that we entrust with our dogs' care. I got more valid and helpful information from this forum than I did from my own vet and a local Internal Medicine Specialist combined - the people here can be of great help to you.

I wish you and Jet the very best.

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. All I can say after scraping myself off the ceiling is run to another vet. You need to get this dogs diabetes under control with a vet that knows what he is doing. having diabetes could skew the testing for Cushings that is if this vet even did any testing for Cushings. Stop all Vetoryl please is you values your dogs life. I have a Jack Russell and they are very sensitive to medication. How much Vetoryl were you giving him? Cushings makes them gain weight, not lose. Diabetes makes them lose weight. One thing at a time needs corrected. The first thing is I would never go back to that vet. The second thing is can you get an IMS? They are more skilled at these things than a vet. Please get us copies of all the test results asap and post the abnormal ones on here. The people on here have many years of experience with this disease, and we also have a sister site for diabetes. You need to get the diabetes under control first. Did this vet only try one diabetes drug to control this? Please listen to the wise people on here they would never want your dog to be in jeopardy. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome. I'll second what the others have said. If the glucose is high, then you up the insulin or switch and try a different insuline, you don't switch to vetroyl. Diabets can be life threatening, so it is imparative that this be addressed immediately, like as in yesterday. Get another vet, this one is clueless I'm sorry to say, in regards to both diabetes and to cushings. goodness my heart is pounding!

Let us know as soon as you can what's going on.
We are all worried for you and Jet.
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Iraklis]

Diabetes makes them lose weight.

Ι am sorry to thread-jack a bit but Husko never got tested for diabetes and was constantly losing weight since summer.
(anyone/everyone is welcome to answer this in my thread...is there anything pointing to diabetes in his health-tests I should look for?)

[StarDeb55]

When diabetes is suspected, a blood glucose or blood sugar is done. Elevations in the glucose is what determines diabetes.

Debbie

[Little CoCo Puff]

Totally agree that Cushing's is a slow progressive disease...you must get to the bottom of the health issues your dog has. I am so sorry you are going through this.

[Little CoCo Puff]

Diabetes is life threatening. Gosh I am so glad my CoCo had a great vet as I know so many that don't. Please let us know.

[Slimmy]

Hi to all that responded,

I greatly appreciate all the advise. This was exactly what I expected, as jets condition has gotten worse very fast over the last few days. I'm in a very tough position with all of this because I have spent quite a bit of money trying to help jet up to this point, and I'm not sure I can afford to seek help from another vet. I guess I'll have to decided for myself how to handle this for now. I will stop the vetoryl right away. Only question is do I start up again with the insulin or not? I will continue to update.

Thanks again,

Ryan

[doxiesrock912]

The vet should advise you of how to handle both. I would think that since Cushings progresses slowly that it's best to get the diabetes under control first.

I know how expensive this is. There is a credit card that is used for vet expenses and they often have no interest for a certain time frame. http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

[molly muffin]

If the diabetes isn't addressed and insulin given Darby will continue to fail very quickly. Just like a human with diabetes they need the insulin to live. You can for the immediate tell your vet you want Darby on insulin. I hope you did join our sister diabetes site. Cushing's can make Darby insulin resistant and need more insulin daily until her system in regulated again.
Sharlene and Molly muffin