Hair loss on Vetoryl still losing, What food?

[Bruce]

Hi,
am new to this site and i must admit i have found it very educational.
I have a yorki/norfolk terrier cross called Bruce. He is 7 yrs old, weighs 7kg and is my little world.
He has been diagnosed with Cushings following symptoms that started 8 months ago. Firstly i noticed he was drinking alot (thought that was the summer) then he started begging more for food (he has always had an insatiable appetite). He has always been sensitive and had some allergies as a puppy. last summer he had an ear infection and a skin infection which we thought was from him swimming in the sea. cleared up with antibiotics and antifungal shampoo. Then his hair started to thin so i took him to the vets.
They asked about drinking etc which made me realize that it was more than normal. He tested for thyroids. Wasnt that. His bloods showed elevated liver enzymes, but he said it wasnt quite conclusive for cushings but suspicious. The he had the HTC stimulation test which wasnt conclusive on it own but with the elevated liver enzymes and symptoms it was diagnosed for cushings. I since found out that his dad/max, had cushings but was diagnosed at 14yrs so they did not treat him. (i know its not meant to be hereditary). He does look a bit pot bellied which i thought was his weight but its not.
He started vetoryl 30mg 30th December. he had the follow up tests done to which the vet said his levels are not quite where he would like them (a little under) but he if he increased his medication it might put him over and subsequently suffer side effects.
Im concerned because his hair is still falling out and he cries for food. im worried that if his hair thins anymore he will be subject to sun burn ( i walk him an hour a day and we spend summers in spain). he is very active and loves being outside.
Im currently feeding him wainwrights grain free dry food (new food that has had god reviews), i was feeding him Acana but this new wainwights looks the same ingredients for a cheaper price. I have been reading about food for cushings dogs and i want to know what is best for my dog. I am about to look at raw food but im not sure its practical for me or him. can they stll have dry food if they are on raw food? can they have dental treats? he has a pedigree dentatick a day.
I would be grateful for any advice. Sorry for the long post, but i thought i had better give a good background. x

[Squirt's Mom]

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[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry your baby is having problems. When you said he had allergies when he was younger was he on any medications for this? If so what were they? Also could you get copies of the tests that were done to confirm Cushings and post all the abnormals and also the normal scale given by the lab as they are all different. Some of tests can give false positives if there are other issues going on. Cushing's dogs drink buckets of water and never stop peeing. You did mention some symptoms of Cushing's like the elevated liver enzymes, the insatiable hunger, and hair loss. Has your dog been tested for diabetes, or thyroid disease? Cushing's is very hard to diagnose and has some of the same symptoms as other diseases. I think the thing you need to be concerned with is your dog is on 30mg of Vetoryl to start out with. Dechra states the dosage for starting is 1 mg per pound and your dog weighs a little over 15 lbs. Why was he started at such a high dosage? My dog weighs 18 lbs and I started her on 10 mg. You need to find out what your dogs current pre and post cortisol numbers are from the ACTH test your vet would have done. When you said the numbers were not where the vet wants them just know some vets make the mistake of using the scale provided by the lab that is for normal dogs, not Cushing's dogs. Please do not increase this dosage until you get us those numbers. Your dog is only 7 usually this is a disease affecting older dogs. Not to say it cannot affect a younger dog, but that is not the norm. If I were you I would get all the tests and let us know the numbers so we can see what is going
on. I am hoping all the proper testing was done and there were not other issues going on to skew the test results. Glad you found us, we are here to help and support you. Blessings
Patti

[Bruce]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry your baby is having problems. When you said he had allergies when he was younger was he on any medications for this? If so what were they? Also could you get copies of the tests that were done to confirm Cushings and post all the abnormals and also the normal scale given by the lab as they are all different. Some of tests can give false positives if there are other issues going on. Cushing's dogs drink buckets of water and never stop peeing. You did mention some symptoms of Cushing's like the elevated liver enzymes, the insatiable hunger, and hair loss. Has your dog been tested for diabetes, or thyroid disease? Cushing's is very hard to diagnose and has some of the same symptoms as other diseases. I think the thing you need to be concerned with is your dog is on 30mg of Vetoryl to start out with. Dechra states the dosage for starting is 1 mg per pound and your dog weighs a little over 15 lbs. Why was he started at such a high dosage? My dog weighs 18 lbs and I started her on 10 mg. You need to find out what your dogs current pre and post cortisol numbers are from the ACTH test your vet would have done. When you said the numbers were not where the vet wants them just know some vets make the mistake of using the scale provided by the lab that is for normal dogs, not Cushing's dogs. Please do not increase this dosage until you get us those numbers. Your dog is only 7 usually this is a disease affecting older dogs. Not to say it cannot affect a younger dog, but that is not the norm. If I were you I would get all the tests and let us know the numbers so we can see what is going
on. I am hoping all the proper testing was done and there were not other issues going on to skew the test results. Glad you found us, we are here to help and support you. Blessings
Patti

Thanks for your reply. He never had any medication for allergies. Just antibiotics. The vet called it a fond term 'Westie skn', as they suffer with unknown allergies. He has a very soft light blonde coat and doesnt malt. It was when he was about 4-6 months he had an ear infection as a result of scratching and used to chew his feet and itch his eyes. I put him on hypoallergenic food and that helped. Since then in 7 years he has had 2 more ear infections and 1 skin infections. He has 2 vets, one he see's in spain and 1 in the uk. the skin infections were put down to flea bite reaction (even tho the fleas were long gone) and the ear infections from the heat and after swimming (there were mites when they looked under the microscope) by the spanish vet. i think now that this may be because of a suppressed immune system? He has just started to get dark scaley skin on his back end.
They did a full blood count, so im pretty sure they tested for diabetes and they definitely tested for thyroid. which was negative. His other symptoms are he does have a bloated belly, bless him, he was always such a lean dog but now he has a little bit of a bloated look. Also he has developed 2 wart like things which my vets says is possibly caused from cushings. These last 4 weeks he has had a dry nose. I mean dry as a bone. i called the vet and he told me not to worry but to bring him in if there is a change, if he became lethargic, drinking more etc. i don know if the nose is because of the meds? or cushings? from what ive researched its the cushings.
I checked the dosing amount on the leaflet in the box and it looks right? also checked it online on the dechra UK site and it states this WEIGHT (KG) DOSE
≥3 kg and < 10 kg 30 mg once daily
≥10 kg and < 20 kg 60 mg once daily
I thought he might need it increasing because his hair is still falling out after almost 3 months of treatment and he now has what looks like a skin complaint/infection plus the vet said he is a little bit under what he would like him to be. But i see that vetoryl (according to the packet) make 30mg, 60mg and 120mg?? that seems absurd?
I dont know the levels 9when he said his levels are a little bit under but does no want to increase the dose because that could send it the other way) - i will ask the vet for these results so i can post here.

[Bruce]

I have read many people that changed the diet to raw and used cushex drops and their dogs made remarkable improvement? could i do this with vetoryl? i just want him to live as long and be as healthy as possible. Or is there a recommended food i should be using? ive never fed 'raw'. Im a bit weak stomached and i dont eat meat myself but i would do it for him if it was best for him? Dry food would be more preferable or mixing up something for him (home cooking like veggies and chicken?) i really dont know about food. A few years ago i stopped buying supermarket stuff when i read about the poor qualility, and started ordering Acana online. No i use Wainwrights grain free. Please advise x

[Squirt's Mom]

I wouldn't change the diet right now as long as it is working well for him. I am not familiar with Wainwright but Acana is about as good as you can get for commercial feed. I am not a raw advocate until that is the last resort.

As for Cushex, please don't waste your money. It is snake oil and has nothing in it that will address the cortisol which is the enemy in Cushing's. The only ones to benefit from Cushex are the ones selling it. ;)

[goldengirl88]

As Leslie said forget the Cushex drops, we would not need trilostane and Lysodren if Cushex worked. These are the only things you can manage Cortisol with. As for the raw diet, you really need to know what you are doing, as you can make your dog sick otherwise. I am not trusting in raw meat suppliers enough to ever try that now. Blessings
Patti