Update on Zoe Claire "Atypical Cushing" - Zoe Claire has passed

[hfurlotte]

Well after a rocky start with Zoe following her diagnosis in January this year she has done extremely well on treatment. We've had no issues with excess drinking, food stealing, hyperactive, excess panting or incontinence of urine and biggest was EATTING(stealing as well) and her ears have been clear. All her blood results to monitor her liver are all within normal limits. We had to reduce Dr. Olivers recommended Melitonin to start but she is doing great on all three meds........we have kept her on the Ketoconizole but a 200mg dose but the combination is perfect for her. Been years since Zoe has looked this good and other then showing her age with long walks she is amazing the old girl. Being in Canada it was a challenging task to try and get Flax with lignans but we did find the oil and have since found a powder but can't figure out how much powdered flax hulls to give:confused:. A nice thing also is we have found a dog food which is made with flax with lignans.
Well I think that is it in a nut shell for Zoe and all this is possible thanks to the support I got and the tools to get to the source of the problems. Thanks everyone and can't wait to hear how you all are doing yourselfs.

Puppy hugs and kisses from Zoe Claire (and hugs from me):D

[frijole]

Glad you found us! Also wonderful news that ZC is doing fine. I am curious about the dogfood you mentioned. What is the brand? Thanks! Kim

[hfurlotte]

Technical Adult has the lignans in it

[gpgscott]

Oh and I know I am going to get the name wrong, so I am just not going to say it.

What a wonderful suprise to see you and Zoe, and especially nice to hear about the progress with her treatment.

It has been stressful to say the least for us and I am certain for all of you old members as well.

Please excuse my failure to remember your name, but I rember you and Zoe will and am so glad you have found us.

Scott

Edited to add;

Ok its Heather, right. Please don't hate me if I got it wrong. (Lord, I have dreams about all of these people)

[hfurlotte]

Scott,
You can call me anything you want as long as it is nice :D with all the names no one would expect us all to remember who is who. I my case there are a handful that helped me through the tough times with Zoe and I will never forget...........I am so glad to be back in touch again.
Hope all is well with you.

Heather and Zoe Claire

[forscooter]

Heather,

Wow!:D I was so glad to see you found us!!! And I am even more thrilled that Zoe is doing so well on her med regimine!!!!!!:D:D:D

I wish I had started Scoobie on keto earlier...not a drug I would usually recommend but with careful monitoring as you are doing, I do think it has its merits. I know the short time he was on it, he seemed to do better.

It's just so amazing isn't it, when you get on the right "stuff", how things just start improving so much? And how happy does that make us??? VERY!!!!!

I can't help with the powdered flax but am thinking if you can track down the people who made it, some companies list a customer service number on the label, you can ask them how much equals how much liquid?

Thanks for letting us know how you are....I've been thinking of you both!!!
Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather!

So glad to see you and Zoe here! Welcome home, sweeties! :D

How great that Zoe is doing so well on her treatment protocol! You must be ecstatic to see her becoming more and more like her old self. That is wonderful news! :D:D:D

Here is a link on the crushed flax hulls:

lignans as flax hulls:
www.flaxhulls.com

And info from the UTK treatment sheet on dosages, just in case:

"From UTK’s treatment sheet:
“The oil may have low level of lignan, so a flax hull product may be preferable. E.g., WWW.FLAXHULLS.COM (standardized product with high content of lignan). Give SID on food: 1/2 tsp for dogs <30 lbs; 1 tsp for dogs >30 lbs. Also, WWW.VITACOST.COM/NSIFLAXSEEDLIGNANS. Standardized, lower concentration lignan product (40 mg capsules). Give SID: 1 capsule for dogs <30 lbs; 2 capsules for dogs > 30 lbs.”
"

We had some members on the old site using this flax product but am not sure if they have made it here yet or not. Glynda is planning to try it.

So good to hear from you again! and glad you have you back among the flock! :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[hfurlotte]

So glad you be back home :D:D The Ground Flax Seed that I have is "Prairie Premium" and on the label it says "Lignans112-304 mg per 2 tablespoons" It is made in Canada in Manitoba. I will contact the company tomorrow to see what they suggest. I know the Flax Seed Oil with Lignans does not tell me the dosage. Zoe is so funny with her Melatonin.....because it is mint flavor I just tell her take your mints and she sticks her tongue out for them I know with her the combination of the 3 just are amazing and if I did not see the results we've seen I never would have believed it....took a couple of months to see the full results but "She one happy girl again"
Will let you know what I find out about the Ground Flax Seed.

If there are any members that are in Canada, there is a place in Canada now that produces the Ground Flax Seed so shipping cross board is not an issue anymore. Customs has held orders at the boarder which made it extremly hard to get it.
Puppy hugs and kisses to you all,
Take care,
Heather and Zoe Claire

[Wylie's Mom]

Hi Heather,

Welcome back!! It's wonderful to hear that Zoe is doing so well:D:D.

-Susy

[jrepac]

don't know if they have Walgreen's in CN, but they sell the powdered Flax seed...$6.50 USD for a 16 ounce container...

[Harley PoMMom]

... Zoe has just had a little set back here with some new sores starting on her mouth. Before we play with her meds we are doing a new injectable antibiotic that is good for 2 weeks and then she will get another one. Other then that she is doing well...
Heather and zoe claire

Poor Zoe, how is she doing today, do the sores bother her when she eats? I hope the injectable antibiotics take care of it.

Sending healing thoughts your way.

Hugs to you and Zoe Claire.
Lori

[hfurlotte]

Well I needed to go to my safe zone :) so here I am. It has been a week since Zoe got the injection of (?) convenia and the sores on her lips are starting to dry up now but she has had a relapse in the incontinance which was under control......don't know what is going on with her if everything is connected :( She is going to the vet next week on Thursday for the 2nd injection so I will see how she is doing. Hope this finds you all well and enjoying the summer sun.
Take care
Heather and Zoe Claire

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

I know what you mean about the "safe zone". ;) Ain't we lucky to have such a great place as a touchstone in our lives?

It's good to know the A/Bs are helping the sores in Zoe's mouth and I hope the next round knocks them out for good! That has to be miserable. Poor baby. :(

When Squirt had the UTK panel re-run recently, Dr O wanted her switched to the flax hulls from the purified form since her estradiol and progesterones were still elevated. Glynda did some of her wonderful research and found that the hulls contain an even higher concentration of phytoestrogens than the purified form. So Squirt has been on them for a week now and will be retested in a month or so to see how they are working. Did you ever talk with your vet about putting Zoe on them?

Is Zoe still on the same dose of Keto as when she started? How long has it been since her levels were checked, including liver values? Is there any possibility she has an UTI causing her urination issue?

Good to hear from you again!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[hfurlotte]

Hi Leslie
We were on the flax oil with high lignans but I do believe the tsp of flax hull has a lot more volumn then the oil.....her liver enzymes were done in april and all were normal and nothing has gone to the states since January this year when we had the initial diagnosis done. She is currently on 200 mg Keto a day down from the 300mg which she was on at the beginning. She goes back to the vet on Thursday and I think I may just take a urine in at that time for a check to see if it is UTI. Zoe's check up is scheduled for September and I think at that time I will find out from tenn what blood they recommend as follow up as it was not specific in directions which came back with her results.
She seems to be okay tonight but we are really watching her water intake but unfortunately it is really hot here this weekend so I don't want to restrict her to much. Will keep you posted.
Take care
Heather and Zoe Claire

[hfurlotte]

Zoe had her second Convenia injection for the mouth sores on Thursday and for the most part they are healing real nicely. Other then sick to her stomach 24 hours after she is doing really well. No incontinence since I increased her Flax Hulls which is :) We take her back on the 20th for a recheck and hopefully she won't require another injection. Has anyone else used the Convenia injection for treatment of skin infections. I like it because you don't have to give pills everyday and the injection lasts 2 weeks.
Hope this finds everyone well.
Take care,
Heather and Zoe Claire:D

[gpgscott]

Hi Heather,

Glad the Convenia is working well, many antibiotics upset the GI tract for the entire period of dosing and maybe you can minimize this with the injection.

Please continue to update us.

Scott

[hfurlotte]

Can anyone tell me what blood work should be done on Zoe to confirm that the Melatonin and Flax combination with the Keto is working? Her liver enzymes are routine and can be done in Vancouver British Columbia. Do I need to have the full adrenal panel done on her and if so how often would it be done? Or is this one of those things that goes "if symptoms controlled there is no need to follow up with blood!"
She has been on the combination for 6 month:cool: already (where has time gone):eek:
Take care
Heather and Zoe Claire

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

Dr. Oliver told my vet to run only the estradiol on Harley bc that is the only one that is really elevated. So I would believe that you would only have to run the ones that are elevated. Now this is 2 months into treatment for Harley, we are testing so soon bc of the high estradiol level, usually for the melatonin/lignans treatment, according to Dr. Oliver the first full panel test is 6 months into treatment, then maybe one goes by their pups numbers and if they have to up their dosage of melatonin and/or lignans. I don't know if this helps you or not. :confused:

Lori

[gpgscott]

Heather,

What is unique about your situation is the Keto which can have a pronounced effect on cortisol. I would inquire with Dr. O. and am betting he will want a stim at least once a quarter. In our case Dr. O has told us we can use ALP as a rough guage to estradiol control but we are administering only melatonin/lignans.

Scott

[hfurlotte]

Well I will get our vet to make contact with Dr. Oliver and see what his suggestion is :) Thanks for helping me out with this. Zoe seems a little out of sorts with this last injection of Convenia so I don't think a 3rd in two weeks time is not going to happen. Though the outcome of the injection is amazing and cleared up the sores I don't like the fact her stomach is so upset:eek:( vomiting dog does not make happy mom) could also be it has been horribly hot here in Comox the last couple of days so will wait and see how she does.

Heather and Zoe Claire

[hfurlotte]

Well our old girl has thrown another loop into our lives :eek: Yesterday she was sleeping in her kennel when I heard a weird sound so I checked on her only to discover froth coming from her mouth and not responding to us even though her eyes were open. That lasted about a minute or so then she was in another world for about an hours, when we went to pet her she got rather defensive. When I called the vet she figures this was a seizure and just keep an eye on her. I've not heard back from Dr. Oliver with regards to what blood work Zoe needs so I've asked our vet to contact him directly as she may hear sooner then we would. Has anyone had a similar situation with Atypical pups with regards to this seizure activity. I understand we are not going to treat the seizures at this time. It has been record breaking hot here in Comox British Columbia (40 C or 104F) so I am also wondering if the heat caused the seizure. We are now running two air conditioners in our house and the three dogs have only been allowed outside to do their business then they are right back inside.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Heather and Zoe Claire

[gpgscott]

Heather,

I am sorry for this development.

I can not recall you reporting seizures or anthing like this in the past.

I can see that extreme temperatures and dehydration could cause issues.

It sounds serious to me, how are you proceeding.

Scott

[forscooter]

Heather,

We have no idea what is causing Bailey's periodic twitching...but whatever it is, it is a neuro thing. Not quite seizures. But, what caught my eye is the temp you mentioned.

I do know if Bailey spends a lot of time outside in the heat or is up a lot and tired, he twitches more and more severely. For this reason, I have kept my air on constantly and try to keep him inside and resting on and off so he doesn't overdo it.

I don't think it would cause any of this behavior or seizures, but I do think the added stress can contribute to seeing more of it.

Is Zoe on Melatonin for the atypical? I can't recall.....but melatonin does help some pups with seizures...is it possible to add or go up in the dose....this may be something to discuss with your vet...

Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

[StarDeb55]

Heather, heat may have exacerbated a pre-existing problem. I think it's a very good idea to limit Zoe's outside time right now. Here in Phoenix, we are under another extreme heat warning of 112-114 clear through the weekend , so my pups will not be allowed any extended period of time outside. Seizures are nothing to fool with as I'm sure you know, so if Zoe show any sign of another one, IMHO, I would have her at the vet pronto.

Debbie

[Dollydog]

Hi Heather,
Lady had been on trilostane for 2 weeks when she had 2 grand mal seizures about 12 hours apart....she was just fine after the first but a little groggy after the second. She had become severely diabetic in a very short period of time. Her bg was around 41(730). Our vet was shocked as he had had no idea that was what was happening to her when I told him that she had started drinking and urinating more after having perfect numbers on her ACTH test done 10 days after beginning trilo.
Just wanted to mention this but don't know if it's any help to you. Will check back tomorrow.
Jo-Ann & Lady

[hfurlotte]

Hi Beth and crew,
I am hoping this is going to be far a few between....she did have something similar back before we did the full adrenal panel but has been really good since. Hope fully by the time Dr. oliver get the informtion back to our vet we can get it done and sent to the states for assessment.....will wait for our vet to get a hold of him directly then they can discuss things. So far we are just running the two air conditioners just to keep them cool an the seem very happy :D:D

Heather,

We have no idea what is causing Bailey's periodic twitching...but whatever it is, it is a neuro thing. Not quite seizures. But, what caught my eye is the temp you mentioned.

I do know if Bailey spends a lot of time outside in the heat or is up a lot and tired, he twitches more and more severely. For this reason, I have kept my air on constantly and try to keep him inside and resting on and off so he doesn't overdo it.

I don't think it would cause any of this behavior or seizures, but I do think the added stress can contribute to seeing more of it.

Is Zoe on Melatonin for the atypical? I can't recall.....but melatonin does help some pups with seizures...is it possible to add or go up in the dose....this may be something to discuss with your vet...

Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

Honey, you are much calmer than I would be if Squirt had a seizure! Her leg jerks and I'm on the floor hovering, "what's wrong? why did you do that? do you hurt?"....and if the time ever came when she didn't look at me like, "mom, you have lost your ever-loving mind...", I think I would stroke out on the spot! :eek:

I hope this is nothing, and that it never happens to Zoe again!

Looking forward to Dr O's input!
Big hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[hfurlotte]

Well it is Saturday and Zoe seems to be back to herself today. Yesterday she was much better then the day of her seizure. Think keeping her cool maybe the key with her. Though the two boys and cats seem to like the air conditioners running :D:D not to say the three of us two legged folk not complaining about the cool. Thanks everyone that is why I love this site:D...........never a time when there is a worry that someone can't help you with.....love you all
Have a good weekend
Hugs always,
Heather and zoe claire

[gpgscott]

Heather,

Heres hoping it was a very rare event.

Scott

[hfurlotte]

Amen to that one Scott. Sure could do without any little twists.....but I have read over and over with this site....." just when you think things are good...............roller coaster ride comes to mind"

Heather and Zoe Claire

[Gabrielle]

Hi Heather,

I'm sorry to read that Zoe had a bad day.

We had a beagle once that suffered from seizures, though she did not have Cushing's. One day, they just stopped and never came back. I think she was more relaxed and happy.

I hope Zoe will never have another seizure again. Cushing's is bad enough to deal with. No dog needs seizures on top of everything.

I do think the heat could have had something to do with it.

Hoping you and Zoe have a good Sunday.

Hugs,

Gabrielle and Charlie Brown

[hfurlotte]

Thanks Gabrielle, Zoe does seem to be more settled the last couple of days with the house being kept extremely cool....the poor cockatiels don't like it to much but they are tolerating if for their big sister:D
The weather is starting to cool down a little each day and we will keep them all inside until it becauses back into the 19C range.....we too hope you have a good Sunday and for us here in British Columbia Canada it is a long weekend :)
Hugs always
Heather and Zoe Claire

[AlisonandMia]

You have cockatiels? How many? We have them in what feels like plague proportions in our house (6 inside, 3 outside) - and a Quaker Parrot, and 3 budgies (outside during the day).

Make sure they aren't affected by drafts which can be quite a big deal when you cool a house dramatically - the temperature gradients can cause lots of air to swirl around which creates drafts especially near windows and walls. It's winter here (yay!) and my birds live near a window and I've put white sheets around one side of their cages (nearest the window) so there are no little drafts because of cooler air hitting the outside of the window. (Also keeps the prying eyes of the neighbor's cat off them too!) Over the years I've found that birds don't mind cool temperatures (it gets very cold overnight in the semi-desert areas of Australia to which cockatiels are native) but that drafts (even pretty minor ones) can totally deadly if the bird can't escape them. Also an inability of handle cool conditions can be an early sign of illness in a bird - especially if you have one bird that seems to find it obviously hard to cope. Often warm/hot conditions completely mask a bird's illness but they fall in a heap as things cool down.

I hope Zoe remains seizure free (forever!). I'm sure the stress of the high temperatures didn't help at all especially as it's hotter than anything she would ever have experienced. How close are the fires to you?

Alison

[hfurlotte]

Hi Allison,
We have two cockatiels, 4 budgies, 3 guinea pigs, 2 degues, 2 cats and three dogs.....and they all get along. Henry and Isabelle are the cockatiels and they come outside their cages and I've found they just keep themselves out of the draft from the air conditioner. We live on Vancouver Island about half way up the inside of the island, if you look at a map. The fires are on the mainland more towards the interior of BC however with the extreme heat we are currently on a extreme fire alert and they are hoping we get no lightning storms until after we get some rain....the poor grass is so brown now. My husbands cousin lives in Adalaid Austrailia and some of the pictures we've seen show a very beautiful country. I would be a very happy mom if Zoe never had another seizure because it was pretty scarry watching her and the froth I think was what pushed me over in panic (even being a nurse :( ) I have some pictures of our pets in the Community photo gallery if you like to see some of our pets and I am going to post some more this weekend.
Take care,
Heather and Zoe Claire

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

I am glad to see that the coolness has settled Zoe, and I will be praying that there will be no more seizures.

I took a look at your album and you have a beautiful family, loved all the pictures.

Love and hugs.
Lori

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

Was wondering how you and Zoe were doing and hoping she didn't have anymore seizures...gonna whisper that, bc you know how it is when you say something out loud. :eek:

Hope everyone and all your furry/feathered babies are doing fine.

Love and hugs.
Lori

[hfurlotte]

Zoe just had her check up done on here 8th Birthday :) She is starting to get the sore on her lip, messy looking ears and accidents in the house. We did her geri panel and the only abnormal level was her liver enzyme was slightly elevated. Since her seizure in Aug Zoe has had a slow decline but how much is age related? We increased her Keto back up to 300 mg for two weeks to see if we can clear her ears and settle the "atypical symptoms" then will see how things are. The incontinence and thirst was returning however the last two days she has not had any accidents in the house :) Today she seems to be brighter and less grumpy. I find now if I am able to see things happening with her it is easy to jump on the symptoms which is really reassuring.

On the feather end of things our two cockatiels have decided it is time they start a family of their own. Izzy has laid so far 5 eggs and both her and Henry have taken turns keeping the eggs warm right from the time Izzy laid them. We are hoping around the 17 October we will have at least 1 successful hatch.

Hope everyone is doing well, sending lots of positive thoughts to you all.
Lots of hugs and puppy kisses,
Heather and Zoe Claire;)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

I'm glad to see Zoe's had no seizures since August and that the increased dosage of Keto is improving her symptoms.

Awww...baby cockatiels...Henry and Izzy must be proud parents. :D

Please keep us updated on Zoe and Henry and Izzy eggs.

Love and hugs
Lori

PS...Then we'll need to see pictures of them baby cockatiels. :)

[Dollydog]

Hi Heather,
It's good to see your update and glad to hear that there haven't been any more seizures. But it's hard to see a decline, even if it is age-related.
Thought I saw a thread wishing Zoe a Happy Birthday....must go check that out.
Take care,
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel :)

[gpgscott]

Hi Heather,

Glad to see the Zoe report and very glad to hear that she is doing well.

Post pics of the baby birds when you can, I would love to see them.

Scott

[hfurlotte]

Posted some pictures of Mommy and Daddy and the clutch of 4 :)
Will put pictures of new ones........looks like at least one is a good egg :D:D

[hfurlotte]

Well Zoe seems to be a little slower responding to the increase in her Keto this time around and has maxed out on Flax with lignans as well as melatonin....she was doing so well on 200 mg of keto with the combination Flax/melatonin until her ears started getting messy again. Now it has been almost a month that she has been on 300 mg and added Clindamycin for the skin sores......we had her out for a walk today and really noticed she is slowing down herself. I am not looking forward to the day we have to leave her at home because she can't tolerate the long walks :(

On a good note our cockatiels Henry and Izzy hatched their very first baby today 18 Oct 2009 at 215pm PST.......the second one is just waiting to hatch now :) I posted pictures of the little baby on our photo page.

[StarDeb55]

Heather, I don't remember but is Zoe troubled by arthritis & is she on anything for arthritis pain? If not, it's something you might want to consider. I would also think some type of joint support supplement might be helpful.

Debbie

[hfurlotte]

Hi Debbie......Zoe had trouble with her with "knees" prior to her being diagnosised with Atypical cushings because she is on Keto we have to watch anti-inflammatories with her liver. She does take 1000mg Glucosamine daily. Today she is really tired out from our walk yesterday. I am going to give her a couple of days to recoop and see how she is before calling the vet.........she is eatting 1/2 her meal which is normally one of the first things she goes off of when she is not feeling well.

Heather and Zoe Claire

[StarDeb55]

There are other drugs that will provide pain relief besides anti-inflammatory meds. Tramadol is one, & I'm pretty sure that a lot of folks use tramadol in this group.

Debbie

[gpgscott]

Heather,

The chicks are neat, I am suprised to see so many feathers.

Moria gets stupid on Tram, but I am certain that it relieves her pain. I administer it in small bits and infreqently. I rely mainly on adaquan, glucosomine, and FSO.

Scott

[lulusmom]

Hi Heather,

Long time no post and drat my bad memory. Can you refresh my memory regarding the results of Zoe's adrenal panel? Better yet, can you post the results here so that we all have them for future reference?

Given the current symptoms you are seeing in Zoe, my first thought is that her current treatment regimen may not be effectively controlling the intermediates. Her cortisol was not elevated right? If it's been longer than 4 months since the original adrenal panel, you may want to consider having another one done to see where things stand. I will tell you that there is no guarantee that melatonin and lignans will be effective, especially in controlling the estradiol. I believe that I read that it works about 40% to 50% of the time. I was hoping that the Keto would keep things in check though. :(

Glynda

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

Harley takes tramadol for his pancreatitis, but he only gets it once or twice a week if that...his dosage is 50 mg, 1/2 to 1 tablet every 6-8 hours. If I give it to him, I give him 1/2 tablet (25mg) and he seems fine on it, it doesn't make him act dopey or anything...maybe it's a low doseage?

Awww...I think the baby cockatiel is cute. Did you name the baby yet?

Love and hugs.
Lori

[hfurlotte]

Thanks for the information on the Tramidol......we were definately dealing with increased base on Androstenodione 8.0 and with Dex supp here estradiol elevated 75.5 then ACTH increased the Androstenodione again, cortisol was mid range starting then after ACTH it was on the low end of normal at 82.2. I do believe the flax/lignans has done amazing with her and Melatonin 6mg in the morning and 6 mg at night and she was able to maintain on 200 mg of Keto a day.....this was until her last seizure this summer and seems things just are starting to slowly windle. Now she is back up to 300mg Keto with the other two on board. Having another panel done is not something our vet is in favor with, she feels we would be better off to deal with the symptoms vice blood results. We did the Biochemistry here out of Vancouver BC and the only abnormal result was her ALP which was 108 .........
I only wish our pets came with operating manuals and we knew what exactly to do when things are not operating right:(

We named the two baby cockatiels......the oldest is "Horton" and the second one is "Joe Joe" are the second.........we are hoping the 3rd hatches tonight :)

Heather and Zoe Claire

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

Has your vet/IMS contacted Dr Oliver about increasing the melatonin/flax hull with lignans to three times a day? Just a thought.

Love and hugs
Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

Reading along just don't have anything to add. :o I do hope Zoe gets to feeling better, tho.

The chicks are precious! I, too, am surprised at the feathers they have already! I bet mom and dad are proud! Thanks for sharing!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[lulusmom]

Hi Heather,

Thanks for bringing me up to speed on Zoe's test results. Lori mentioned something that I think is a really good idea. If your vet does not want to do another panel, then perhaps he would be agreeable to contacting Dr. Oliver and discussing Zoe's issues. Dr. Oliver may recommend that you increase the melatonin and the pressed flaxhulls. He's the expert on atypical and I personally would follow his lead.

Glynda

[hfurlotte]

I will ask her if she would Zoe is already taking 12 mg of Melatonin a day so I am not sure how much more he would want to up it....when I got an email from Dr. Oliver when Zoe first started treatment she had a lot of problems and he said her response was probably the sensitivity of Melatonin because some dogs just get sleepy on it so we did a gradual increase over a month for her. The Flaxhulls she is getting two tablespoons....might look into the implants:)

Heather and zoe claire

[jrepac]

Melatonin is used as a supplement to help people w/insomnia. It never did much for me frankly...I need the stronger stuff!

When I give it to Mandy in the evening w/her other supplements, she will usually conk out within 60 minutes.....

She sleeps right thru the night, unless I get up.

Nightime restlessness was one of the 1st clues that she had Cushings for me...barking at 3am for food....unreal! but, once I got her on the anipryl that helped and even better once I added melatonin.

Nighty nighty every nite now...

Jeff

[hfurlotte]

Hello all our fellow K9 cushings friends it has been a few months since I have posted a note. Zoe is holding her own these days the only thing right now that is concerning is she is looking thin even though she is eatting her regular amount of food. She is currently on 6 mg of melatonin a day and 300 mg of Keto a day. Her last blood work done end of November had all her liver enzymes in a normal range

Her ALP was 33 (10-150iu/l)
Total bili 4 (0-7 umol/L)
alt 44 (5-60 iu/l)
ast 28(8-56 iu/l)
ggt 4 (0-14 iu/l)
sdh 3.6(2.9-8.2)

Her thyroid level was 12.5 which is on the lower end of normal but certainly within the normal limits. :)

All in all she is doing well for an old girl and has had no further seizures since the last one early in the fall.
Hoping this finds you all well and I am looking forward to hearing from you all once again.

Take care,
Heather and Zoe Claire:D:D

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Heather,

Great news on Zoe Claire :D:D:D That's fantastic!!!

Jane and Franklin xx
________
Starcraft 2 replay pro (http://screplays.com)

[Roxee's Dad]

Hi Heather,
Thanks for the great update. Glad to hear Zoe Claire is doing well. :):):)

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Heather,

Great numbers on those liver enzymes!! ;):D So happy to hear that Zoe Claire is doing so well. Great job!!

Love and hugs,
Lori

[gpgscott]

Hi Heather,

Very good to hear that there have been no siezures and that her liver is tolerating the Keto dose.

Moria was always a dry food dog and although she still loves it we discovered that she does much better on a canned diet, her stools are firmer and she has regained some lost wieght.

I can't remember if you have mentioned what Zoe's regular diet is.

Scott

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Heather,

Good to hear from ya'll and great to hear that Zoe is doing so well! :D Always good to hear!

Any new adventures from your corner of the woods?

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[hfurlotte]

Well here we go on that lovely roller coaster again. Just when we think all is well with this old girl she pulls a fast one. :eek:

We've notices Zoe all of a sudden looked thin even though she was eating her normal amount of food and started urinating big time that all started on Friday the 5 Feb so on Saturday I took a urine in to our vet which showed no urinary tract infection but it did show urobili which our vet was not to surprised with. On Monday when I took Zoe for a check our vet did notice Zoe was not herself and not as bouncy. She was down 2.5 kg since her weigh in December. Her mouth has the sores again. Plan is our vet was going to contact Dr. Oliver because Zoe is on 12 mg of Melatonin, Flax and 300mg Keto which has been the highest we've ever been on. She wants to see what his recommendation is. We have increased her to 400mg a day in the interm. We spoke about Trilosan but Zoe does not have Cortisol issues and Dr. Oliver had stated in his letter that if the initial treatment plan was inadaquate Lysodrin could be added. We are not prepared to take her off the meds in order to have a full adrenal panel done but I am wondering if there is another way of assessing the intermediate sex hormones and effectiveness of her current treatment.
We gave her some canned food along with some high protein food to see if we can get her weight back up. We should be hearing from our vet by Friday as to what Dr. Oliver recommends and I will be sure to let you know.
As my husband says "never a dull moment with Zoe" and she just keeps guessing.

[AlisonandMia]

Weight loss and increased urination? Has the vet checked for diabetes. Probably has but thought I'd just check.

Just looked up urobilin - looks like it can be a sign that all is not well with the liver.

You actually want to keep the dog on the meds when doing a full adrenal panel to access the effectiveness of treatment - but I think looking at more basic things like diabetes (if not already checked out) and liver and kidney function might be the way to go at first given her symptoms.

Alison

[hfurlotte]

Hi Allison,
Her liver enzymes were normal ( I had posted them previously) but we've found with Zoe she has "glycogen bubbles" on her liver biopsy a couple of years ago and with her being on the Keto we do her liver enzymes every 4-6 months. The urobili did not surprise our vet as this is nothing new for her. We've discovered that Zoe does like puppy wet food :D:D and she seems a little more brighter today which is day 3 of the increase of her Keto to 400mg a day. I am glad to know we won't have to take her off any of her meds that just would be a night mare big time..
I will post further results as they come available. :)

[gpgscott]

Heather,

I think I remember Dr. Oliver commenting on glycogen bubbles, I think in an email to me and that he connected them to Moria's hyperestrinism.

I don't remember how much lignan you are administering, there has been some confusion about this recently. You need to know the percentage of SDG in the lignan you are giving and the dog should receive 1mg/lb SDG daily. This can be up to ten times greater dose than what you might be administering.

A maint only dose of Lysodren usually lowers all of the hormones reliably with the exception of estradiol, and if done properly will not crash the cortisol.

Looking forward to Dr. Oliver's recommendations and wishing you all the best.

Scott

[hfurlotte]

Hi Scott,
Spoke with our vet this afternoon and the plan is we can increase Zoe's Keto and Dr. Oliver wants her dosed at twice a day vice once so we are going with 200 mg twice a day( total 400 mg) then up further if needed. As for the Melatonin she is staying on the 6 mg twice a day(total 12 mg) and I managed to get my hands on flax with lignans which has 120 mg per serving which is equal to 2 table spoons. We used your numbers at 1mg per pound ( and Zoe is 70lbs). So we are going to give Zoe 1 1/2 tablespoons in her food and I got a new batch so it is fresh as well. When we go to get her blood done for Tenn we will put her on low dose Lysodren and keep the Keto off for a week just to get the panel done again. She did have a good day today with eatting but hoping her energy will come back. I can't believe I am saying this but I would rather have my "bouncy Zoe" back over a lethargic Zoe anyday.
I think I'd be lost if it were not for you and this site because to understand "Atypical Cushings' is not something all vets know about but our vet is warming up to the fact I get my information from her and trust the information ten fold. Hope all is well with you.
Thanks again,
Heather and our beloved Zoe Claire:):)

[gpgscott]

Sounds like a plan Heather, and glad you and your Dr. are working together.

Best wishes. Scott

[hfurlotte]

well it has been one week and Zoe is bouncing back :) She is currently taking 400 mg of Keto divided twice a day, along with 12 mg Melatonin and 75 mg flax seed with lignans....we purchased a new bag and did the 1 mg per pound for the flax which is giving her about a tablespoon and 1/2 once a day. She is eatting a mixture of wet and dry and has shown a nice interest in eatting :) There has been no incontinance or panting/aggression or grumbly tummy for 5 days now. Dr. Oliver has stated we could increase her keto further if needed as there is probably some liver metabolizing going on which will cause us to increase her dose.
Happy pup makes happy family :)

Heather and Zoe Claire:D:D

[gpgscott]

Happy pup makes happy family :)
Heather and Zoe Claire:D:D

Yes.:)

Please let us know, and very best to you all.

Scott

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Heather,

I'm glad to read that Zoe Claire is bouncing back and feeling better. You are so right that a happy pup makes for a happy family! An interest in eating, no incontinence, no panting, no aggression and no grumbly tummy for 5 days.....two thumbs up for Zoe Claire! :D

Louise

[Squirt's Mom]

Hey Heather,

Great news on Zoe Claire! Keep up the good work, Mom!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

[hfurlotte]

Hi everyone.........looking better each day:D:D:D thanks for being there hope all is well with you all.
Heather and Zoe Claire

[hfurlotte]

Well we are through another summer with very little sets back for our girl......she is going to be celebrating her 9th birthday this month :) We've been able to take her Keto back down to 200 mg once a day from 400 mg a day and 6 mg Melatonin twice a day she is doing well. The only issue at hand is the recurrent sores on the lip folds in her mouth. We have treated her with an injectable antibiotic Convenia which lasts 2 weeks and she normally has a repeat injection and it clears right up. That is our challenge right now and I think when she goes back into the vet for her check up I might get the vet to send a sample away for culture just to see what we are dealing with. Just wanted to post a quick update and say hello.
To all our pet pals that have passed on to rainbow bridge we say prayers for you all.
Hugs always,
Heather and Zoe Claire

[hfurlotte]

well we went to see the vet today with our old girl as we noticed she is starting to show signs which point to arthritis. We are going to do some weekly injections of Cartrophen at home so she does not need to go into the clinic. Currently the Keto at 300mg in a single daily dose along with 12 mg of Melatonin has kept her symptoms at bay :) it has been 2 years since she was diagnosed with atypical cushings and we are truly thankful she has responded so well to the Ketokonazole with no signs of liver toxicity. Lately we have noticed she is constantly wanting to eat and she is shedding more then usual. We should know tomorrow how her liver enzymes along with the other blood results. At that point we are able to bump up the Keto if necessary. We also have found the injectable "Convenia" works wonderful for the skin sores that Zoe gets around her mouth and each injection has given her excellent relief for about 6-8 weeks sometimes up to 3 months. I don't get on much these days as work takes alot of the extra time but I do pop in to get caught up. Some of our fur friends have passed to rainbow bridge :( and I am sorry to read about them. We are truly blessed to have them come into our lives.
Until next time.
Heather and Zoe Claire:o

[labblab]

Dear Heather,

Thank you so much for continuing to update us regarding Zoe Claire!!! It is wonderful to hear how well she has done during these past two years. It also sounds as though you have been doing a wonderful job of staying on top of her issues and making sure that they are responded to in the best way possible. As you know, we have had some setbacks here lately, and so it gladdens all of our hearts to read about ongoing successes!

Thank you also for your kind thoughts regarding the babies who have made their passage to Rainbow Bridge. It is so very sweet of you to hold them and their parents in your heart. I will keep my fingers crossed for relief of Zoe Claire's arthritis, and also for the continuing success of her Keto.

Best wishes to you and your sweet baby girl,
Marianne

[gpgscott]

Hi Heather,

Sorry it took a day or so to see this.

Remember when it seemed so dark, that is now literally years ago!

The med you are administering is the same as adequan and in my case and countless others it has worked really well. Betting it helps ZC out a lot.

Please continue to let us know.

Best wishes. Scott

[hfurlotte]

Not sure what is up with the old girl but today she was bleeding from her vulva she has not been incontinent of urine. After her third injectin of cartrophen she was off her food and down for 24 hours her last blood showed some liver enzyme elevated similar to when she had her open liver biopsy. I am going to send a urine to the vet in the morning but am wondering if this is a common problem with Cushing dogs

[frijole]

Hello. My cush dog Haley had bladder stones and she bled from her vulva. You are doing the right thing by getting the urine tested. Keep us posted on how it goes. Kim

[lulusmom]

My Lulu also had bleeding from bladder stones. We'll be waiting for the results of the labwork.

Glynda

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

When Crys had struvite crystal in her urine, she would bleed a bit, too, but never enough to really see unless you dabbed it with a white tissue. I never saw bright blood. With crystals, they cut the urethra as the urine passed through, causing bleeding, but in her case, it was really dilute.

I hope Zoe is feeling better soon!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[hfurlotte]

Well Zoe has a horrible bladder infection. We started her on Baytril 100 mg twice a day for 12 days. Will repeat her urine at the completion of her antibiotics. Our vet does not send urine away for culture unless it is a recurrent problem and only if they do a bladder puncture to get a "sterile" specimen. Don't think our girl would be to happy about that:eek: Tonight she seems to have a little more spunk to her and did finally eat :) I am so thankful to know that any questions all I need to do is head for K9 cushings and my friends will have the best advice and support for that we are truly blessed. Keep you posted.
Hugs always,
Heather and Zoe Claire:o

[hfurlotte]

Well this past week was another whirl wind of emotions :confused: Zoe went off her food, got extremely grumpy and just let us all know she was not happy. Friday asked to have our vet call me to discuss the situation, to top it off she was still dribbling urine tinted withred which I can only assume was blood mixed with her urine. Our vets suggestion was stop the Baytril antibiotic and give her an injection of the antibiotic that we were using for her skin sores (convenia). I also asked if I could take Zoe's blood myself and take it in to be sent to Vancouver hopefully taking the stress of a vet visit. I work in the lab at our hospital and thought how hard would it be to take her blood....to my surprise Zoe was extremely willing and did not fuss at all :D yesterday she seemed a little brighter so we took the 3 dogs to the beach Zoe seemed to enjoy that, she even went into the water which she has not for about a month now. Last night I also gave her 1/2 dose of Meticam to see if that would help her out with any pain she might be having. We were told to use the Medicam with caution because of her " Atypical Cushings". Today Zoe appears to be much happier so I would think maybe the Baytril was upsetting her stomach or messing with her hormone levels. I am expecting to hear from one of the other vets in our clinic on Tuesdsay when Zoe's blood work should be back. I will be most interested in the liver enzymes along with her complete blood count since our vet said the abnormal levels could be stress induced. We are happy tonight because she did eat and the old tail is wagging again.;)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

Did NOT like the way your post started but was much happier by the end. ;) I was getting worried about our Zoe. I hope the Baytril was the problem and getting a break from it will help her feel better and regain her appetite. I know I've been on ABs before that made me feel as bad or worse than the illness they were treating so I empathize with her!

How neat that you are able to draw her blood from home and spare her the stress of the vet visit! You are so brave! Squirt is so hard to hit they usually go into her neck for labs.

Let us know what the labs have to say!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[hfurlotte]

Blood work back today.......liver enzymes are better then they've been all within normal limits :) Zoe's white cell count was high the vet figures because that this might reflect the fact she had a bladder/kidney infection. We will repeat the urine in two weeks and depending on what that shows we will go with a culture which will be done by needle into her bladder to get a sterile specimen. She also feels that because Zoe responded to the Meticam so well that she was in a lot of pain which would explain her personality change (aggression) so in the mean time we will just keep on doing what we've been doing and hope Zoe continues to recoop from this set back.
Now if we can just get the mouth sores to heal I think Zoe would feel :) again.

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

Good update! :) Glad she is feeling a bit better and hope it continues.

Does Zoe have arthritis? It sounds like she had some sort of inflammation going on that was making her quite uncomfortable for her to show aggression. :( I'm glad the Meticam helped her.

Healing white light and prayers continue to fly your way!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[hfurlotte]

My husband and I had a wonderful sit down meeting with our vet today to try and figure out what might be going on with Zoe. She certainly is not herself. We only wish she could tell us what was wrong. Zoe's repeat urine done a week ago was clear :) no signs of infection. We found though that when she was on the Metacam a low dose she certainly looked like she was not in any discomfort however after 3 days she decided to go off her food, would not even take human food which she normally would inhale it :cool: On Friday we stopped the Metacam and today Monday she ate her two normal meals with no problem. Our vet is wondering if maybe Zoe has some muscle/skeletal issues going on so she has asked us to have one of our local vets that does chiropractic/accupuncture do an assessment to see if she can pin point a specific area causing her pain. Though my husband and I remain on the fence about chiropractor for Zoe we are willing to go, right now anything we can do to help our old girl is a bonus.
I printed off Dr. Olivers review on Atypical Cushings, and the disease progression, we discussed that today. Part of the disease process shows muscle weakness, skin sores that won't heal, appetite decreased, personality changes. :confused:
We've had wonderful results with the use of Ketoconozole, with melatonin, flaxhull and all the while her liver enzymes have remained good so we know her liver is not responsible for this set back. I asked about the possibility of her having an adrenal tumor/issue and that remains a possibility.
We are also thinking about changing her to Lysodren....I am really interest to know if anyone dealing with advanced "Atypical" has had anything similar and how they dealt with them.

Heather and Zoe Claire <3

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather,

I don't know if Squirt would be considered in an "advanced" stage of Atypical but I started her on a maintenance dose of Lyso several months ago because her cush signs became obvious - slow hair regrowth and loss, drinking, peeing and voracious appetite. Other than sebaceous adenomas, her skin is good, she shows no signs of weakness or loss of appetite, and no personality changes that caused me to make this decision to start her on the Lyso. She gets 125mg twice a week.

Since starting the Lyso, her energy level has soared! She is the one egging me on to take longer walks, she wants to play much more and even plays on her own again for the first time in ages, she rests so much better at nite, her body has lost the "fluffly" look as my niece called it, her drinking and peeing has returned to normal. I have not noticed hair regrowth yet but with summer coming on she wouldn't have her soft inner coat anyway. The Lyso has made a world of difference for Squirt - a difference definitely for the better!

I haven't been able to have another UTK panel done since starting the Lyso but based on her behaviors, it is doing what it is supposed to do quite well for her. I am going to have to shop costs for this as we are the only patients our vet has that uses the stims and he charges me for the whole bottle. I may try to buy a single dose from someone if I can find anyone who stocks it! :rolleyes:;)

So, that's our experience with Atypical and Lyso. Hope it helps! Let us know how Zoe is doing and what you decide to do from here!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[hfurlotte]

Hi Leslie,
We went through that with Zoe but just by increasing her Ketoconozole to 300mg in a single daily does it got the break through symptoms well under control. The keto through our Pharmasave her is $72.00 for 60 pills 200 mg tablet, which I break apart to make the 300 mg dose she is currently on. As well we had stopped the flax seed hulls as her food has a large dose in it.
I feel since February she is slidding down hill and all started with the big urinary tract infection she had. I almost feel I might want to have an ultrasound done on her kidneys since the last on was done in April 2007 when I started really fighting for answers for Zoe because the thrist, incontinence of urine, panting, grumbling stomach, aggression just to name a few were driving me crazy......I knew there was something and I was determined to find out what exactly was wrong. Ketoconazole was our miricle atypical cushings medicine and cost is much nicer....how big is squirt? Not sure if you want to maybe talk to your vet about a low dose of keto to try (it can't hurt)

Do you want me to ask how much Lysodren is here? Our vet did say they are very expensive drugs :( pretty sad when it is a good one.
Like I said before we had excellent response to the Atypical symptoms by using Keto (one of the drugs Dr. Oliver does suggest) but we were on it for yeast infections in Zoe's ears and that cleared it up big time. We monitor Zoes liver function quit often and she has really good liver enzymes so it is not cause the toxic effect the people worry about with it.
Well I have managed to get a flu from the hospital I work at so with this aching head and body i am heading back to bed....have 3 dogs curl up next to me :)
Take care Heather and Zoe Claire <3 Zoe is sending puppy kisses for staying in touch with her mommy while she works on getting me better:D:D

[hfurlotte]

Just to keep all our friends up to date on Zoe Claire....we are going to repeat the full adrenal panel on Tuesday the 12 April to determine if Zoe's body is metabalizing the keto quicker which would explain why her symptoms are not well controlled as lately. All her liver functions tests have remained normal so I know this is not a toxic effect to the Keto. Dr. Oliver figures the same that Zoe's disease is progressing :( Right now we are just trying to keep her comfortable, eatting and happy. I will post the results of her panel once we get them back. We maybe switching over to the Lysodren along with the melatonin depending on the results. Now it is just a wait and see.

Heather and Zoe Claire

[Vail'sMom]

Hi,
So sorry to hear about Zoe and her mouth sores...I have a question for you...I just joined here two days ago after stumbling across the website doing some searching. I have an 8 year old Great Pyrenees "Vail" that was diagnosed back in March with:
1. Atypical Cushings
2. Alopecia X
3. Allergies to beef, poultry, eggs etc

Despite searching like crazy, you are the first person (pet owner or vet) that has mentioned mouth sores. Vail has some mouth sores and I have been trying like crazy to figure out what has been causing them (I.e. which of the above listed issues)...so the other day I searched under the atypical cushings and mouth sores and came across your post...so, finally to my question(s):
1. Do you know if there is a direct correlation between Atypical Cushings and mouth sores? I have searched under the condition "stomatitis" because that is what I have seen in human patients with these kinds of sores in the mouth
2. If they are related, can you point me in a direction of where I can find more info to help my baby?
3. For the Atypical. Cushings, what do you currently give your dog (both medications and/or supplements and what foods - melatonin, lignans, fish oil, biotin, probiotics, etc)
4. How long ago was Zoe diagnosed?

Thanks for your assistance in advance...any help is GREATLY appreciated!

-Jill (and Vail)

[hfurlotte]

Wow it has been awhile since I've posted or even ventured into say hello. ZoeClaire is still with us and turned 11 in Sept 2012. She is still taking 300 mg Ketoconazole along with 6 mg of Melatonin flax in her food. When her mouth gets sore we have discovered Septra antibiotic liquid form works amazing and she takes that for 21 days and that along with her regular meds seems to keep everything in perfect check :) We've also discovered when she starts to slow down or show signs like crankiness, no appetite we can always keep her on her food but don't force the feeding schedule our other two dogs have. Normally they get fed in the morning and supper time but with the little boss we will bow to the rules and feed her frequently on her schedule not ours. I am extremely happy to inform everyone here that she has been on Keto for 3 years and has never once had any liver issues and if my chance her numbers are getting into the high normal we just take her off the keto for about a week or two depending on how she fairs but the minute we see symptoms recurring like PU/PD grumbly stomach we start her back on the two meds again. We along with our vet very much agree we work with the signs as those seem to be the best indicator that Zoe's symptoms are controlled.
For all our fur babies that have passed onto Rainbow Bridge we send our heartfelt love to those they've left behind and all our friends that continue to work with our special cushings babes and extra big hug and puppy kisses from us.
Heather and ZoeClaire

[hfurlotte]

Hi Jill and Vail :)
I have not been on the site for a while but something in my heart told me to check in today and I am extremely glad I did. I've posted an update note about zoe. She has done extremely well on Ketoconazole (anti-fungal medication) use to be used for Cushings until the other meds came on the market. For us it has been a miricle medication. Zoe takes 300 mg of Keto a day and 6 mg of melatonin (she is 70 lb lab shep cross). When we were struggling with what was wrong with our girl her neck use to get open sores and horrible ears to the point she had to be sedated for our vet to check and clean them out. Now those issues have resolved but the mouth continues to rear its ugly side. At first we were using and injectable antibiotic that lasted 10 days and we'd repeat it and over that last year or so we were not getting the lasting results so we switched her to Septra DS an antibiotic and as everything the pharmacy was out of pills so we took it in cherry liquid and man Zoe not only loved taking it we found the sores healed really quickly and that we attribute to the possible coating of medication directly on her lower jaw. We went through all the allergy stuff and major expense but I have to say believe me when we finally got her going on the Keto/melatonin combination her bad days seem far and few between. The keto actually works on the testostrone elevation and melatonin works on the female hormones. Sorry this is so winded. Please feel free to email me directly if you have any questions but I will make a point of checking in more frequently now especially knowing there is more "atypical cushing pups".
Love and hugs to you and Vail
Heather and ZoeClaire :)

Hi,
So sorry to hear about Zoe and her mouth sores...I have a question for you...I just joined here two days ago after stumbling across the website doing some searching. I have an 8 year old Great Pyrenees "Vail" that was diagnosed back in March with:
1. Atypical Cushings
2. Alopecia X
3. Allergies to beef, poultry, eggs etc

Despite searching like crazy, you are the first person (pet owner or vet) that has mentioned mouth sores. Vail has some mouth sores and I have been trying like crazy to figure out what has been causing them (I.e. which of the above listed issues)...so the other day I searched under the atypical cushings and mouth sores and came across your post...so, finally to my question(s):
1. Do you know if there is a direct correlation between Atypical Cushings and mouth sores? I have searched under the condition "stomatitis" because that is what I have seen in human patients with these kinds of sores in the mouth
2. If they are related, can you point me in a direction of where I can find more info to help my baby?
3. For the Atypical. Cushings, what do you currently give your dog (both medications and/or supplements and what foods - melatonin, lignans, fish oil, biotin, probiotics, etc)
4. How long ago was Zoe diagnosed?

Thanks for your assistance in advance...any help is GREATLY appreciated!

-Jill (and Vail)

[Harley PoMMom]

What a great update about ZoeClaire, so happy that she is doing so well. Take care of yourself and please do not be a stranger! :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Heather!

Good to hear from you again...it HAS been a while, huh? It is really good to hear that Zoe is doing so well. :):cool::):cool: I'm glad you came to share with us how she is progressing on the Keto, too. Zoe and yours experiences can help others who may come along who have pups that for one reason or the other cannot handle Lyso or Trilo - your story provides hope and I thank you for that.

Do drop in more often and let us know how things are going for the both of you, 'k? ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

:D:D Happy Belated 11th Birthday, Zoe! and many more! :D:D

[hfurlotte]

just stopped in to say hello and as always I love this site when I need to get encourgagement. Yesterday Zoe was rushed into our vet (who was not on call or was our vet clinic) but our beloved Dr. Joan returned my call met us 15 minutes later........High fever, vomiting, lethargy we thought she was going to cross over to rainbow bridge:( after x-rays, blood, still not able to find the source of the fever IV was started antibiotics running into her IV, pain meds, anti nausea med..........we left Zoe at the hospital hoping and praying Zoe could battle back. Last night 10 pm our time we got a promising update from Dr. Joan Zoe was able to wag her tail and even gave her Dr. Joan a kiss.........Today will be a critical day for us if Zoe is doing better we will continue to fight with her but if there is no marked improvement we will allow her to pass onto Rainbow Bridge. Zoe has certainly had her ups and downs over the years but this was a big crash for her. Please send all your prayers for this girl she could sure use them. As always I will keep everyone updated on her progress and prognois.
Love and hugs
Heather and ZoeClaire

[labblab]

Dear Heather,

I am so terribly sorry to hear that Zoe is ill! I will definitely be holding her in my thoughts and prayers today. Please do update us just as soon as you are able.

Sending many healing hugs to your little girl,
Marianne

[frijole]

Sending love and warm thoughts your way. Do keep us posted. Kim

[mytil]

Heather,

I too am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers!!!

((((hugs))))
Terry

[addy]

Hi Heather,

I am praying your girl comes home to you. So sorry read the news.

[lulusmom]

So sorry to hear about Zoe. I'll be praying for her recovery.

[molly muffin]

Very sorry that Zoe isn't doing so well. Crossing fingers and toes for a full recovery and a good day today.

Sharlene

[Harley PoMMom]

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers, too.

[Tina]

Sending my prayers for Zoe also.

Hugs,

Tina

[Bailey's Mom]

Merry Christmas and the happiest of New Years!!!!!!!
May all of your Christmas wishes come true...
May we all stay away from any and all cliffs,
Peace and Joy to all!
-Susan

[molly muffin]

Merry Christmas. Thinking of you and Zoe. Hoping everything turned out okay.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[hfurlotte]

Just checking in our beloved Zoe Claire is still with us she has just had her teeth cleaned because of a mouth sore we thought was an abscess at the same time she had a skin biopsy done for the major sores under her lips that turns out to be deep pyoderma and now we need to treat her on antibiotics for 8 weeks to make sure we get it completely cured, she still takes 300 mg ketokonazole daily and all her liver enzymes have been normalas well 6 mg melitonine and flax in the morning. We have found when she goes off her food it is easy to get her eating by adding fortaflora to some well food and feeding her short frequent meals :)
Our vet added tramadol 50-100 mg as needed for pain and that with her metacan seems to be keeping her pain in check:). We were extremely happy that by reducing the amount of anesthetic agents Zoe came out of surgery with no signs of her atypical cushiness no I continents or aggression which made us all very happy
I hope this finds everyone well

[hfurlotte]

Merry Christmas and here's hoping all is well in K9 Cushings land. Well our Zoe Claire celebrated her 12 th birthday in September and continues to amaze us with her stubbornness and strong will to survive. We've utilized two vets in her life this year of course our Dr.Joan continues to be Zoe's primary vet and we have Dr.Heather who practices Eastern medicine so Zoe gets acupuncture and chiropractic adjustments on an as needed bases. We really truly were skeptical when our Dr.Joan referred her but after two treatments not only was Zoe moving more freely but she actually decided she could prance around she gets a burst of energy which is cute to watch. The weather here in Comox British Columbia Canada is normally rainy winter seasons which means dampness two things which Zoe does not like it makes her stiff and sore. This winter so far has brought a dryer season and cold including snow so her highness is in her glory and we fight to get her to come inside ... Heck if I got pain relief like that I'd probably do the same
Her medications are and have been pretty stable and that is 300mg Ketoconazole, 6mg Melatonin, 30 dosing of Metacam daily, and we've got her now on 50-100mg of Tramadol as needed and marrow tabs to help boost her hemoglobin.
All her blood work has come back well within normal range with the exception of her thyroid and that was slightly below normal and I've just added kelpasan which is a thyroid booster :), the keto thankfully has not caused any adverse effects on her liver and has continued to keep her symptoms in check.
I've stopped her meds for short periods of time in order to give her body a break especially the keto and manage to get about 4-6 weeks off then when she starts showing signs ie:intolerance to the kittens, increase water consumption we restart her and it takes about a week to settle things down.
As for eating she still waxes and wains with that. We've taken Dr.Heathers advice and added raw food to her diet except we cook it because of her immune compromised body cooking at least gives her variety to top her kibble but gives her extra calories without risking any problems. I have found giving her a variety of kibble she seems less likely to turn her nose up, she for some unknown reason gets board with kibble real easy. When she goes off the kibble we can always get her to eat sweet potatoes in small but frequent amounts.
I am sorry I've not been around often but know I do think about our friends her and without the knowledge I've gained here lord knows if we would still have our girlie.
Well sorry if this is windy but I know Zoe Claire's pals who have been here for us since 2009 will be happy to hear she is still strutting herself;)

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh, this is so good to hear!! Way to go Zoe! She must seem like a puppy in this drier winter weather. I think we got all your moisture this year over in Ontario. hahaha

Very glad that the ket continues to work so well for zoe. Long may be prance around! :)

hugs and happy holidays!
sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

It's good to hear from you again, Heather, and especially nice to get such a good report on Zoe Claire. That makes my morning! :) I hope you and your have a wonderful Christmas together!

And -


Happy Belated 12th Birthday, Zoe Claire!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

oh my gosh yes Happy Belated birthday Zoe!! :) :) :) :) Party hats all around

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[hfurlotte]

Happy New Year as i posted in another thread Zoe Claire's little brother Stewie is dealing with some health issues but for our girlie she still continues to thrill us each day. We have discovered something that maybe it is important for friends on this site to know. :eek: Our vet will send Zoe's prescriptions to our human pharmacy for some medications it is just more cost effective. We have had Zoe on Ketoconizole for years now and in May started her on tramadol for pain at a dose of 50mg. Sadly with the wet weather here in the winter Zoe was having more pain so we had an increase in her tramadol to 100mg twice a day. I asked at the pharmacy if we could compound the 50 mg into a 100 mg capsule. Yes we could and for a savings of $58 I asked to have it compounded and paid $68.76 for 60 100 mg capsules. Great idea I thought:o until about three days into giving her the increased dose we returned home to a very lethargic dog who was unable to lift herself out of her bed:(. I went to bed that night running through my head what in the heck was going on so I grabbed my I pad and googled Tramadol and keto and much to my shock I found out that they are contraindicated :(. When talking to our pharmacist we have come to the realization that keto makes the effect of tramadol stronger. What changed is I always give Zoe her keto melitonine in the morning before her breakfast along with 1 Tramadol never an issue. Now with the compound tramadol doing exactly the same the Tramadol was metabolizing slower so in essence what happened is 50mg acted like 100mg and the 100mg was acting like 200mg which is way to much for her. Lesson learned.

For folks that use human pharmacies or other means to get their pets medication please remember to ask the pharmacists if there is any contraindications as they should but don't always do that is look for these flags.

Heather and Zoe Claire

[doxiesrock912]

Heather,
I would think that the pharmacists should check for this before filling any prescription.

Thank God you thought to check.

[molly muffin]

oh my gosh. Luckily you caught this very early and it wasn't able to accumulate in her system.

Good info to know.

[hfurlotte]

It is a very sad day today our beloved Zoe Claire has passed onto Rainbow Bridge she was surrounded by her favorite vet Dr. Joan and went in the loving arms of her family. We are going to miss our old girl she was born 26 Sept 2001 and passed away 25 January 2014. Her life was full and though she struggled like a roller coaster with "atypical cushings' since June 2009 she gave us some very full years. We would not have had her this long if not for our friends here as they gave me valuable information, tools and encouragement to battle that horrible disease. Thanks guys for all your support over the years.

Loving hugs from a heart ache human,

Heather and in loving memory Zoe Claire

[molly muffin]

Oh my gosh Heather. I really wasn't expecting to hear this. My heart breaks for you. Even a good long life doesn't make missing them any less painful. :(
My sincerest condolences to you and the family.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Woodydog]

I,m so sorry for your loss :mad:

[Trish]

My condolences too, we are never ready to lose them are we. Big Hugs for you and your family xx

[frijole]

I am so sorry. You gave dear Zoe much love and know you did all you could. We will honor here always. Run free of pain our newest angel. Kim

[Cooper is missed]

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so hard to lose your best friend. My heart goes out to you.

[doxiesrock912]

My sincere condolences to all of you Heather.

[Dollydog]

Hello Heather....please accept my sincerest condolences to you and all your family....you gave Zoe the best life and care that any dog could ever wish for....please take good care of yourselves....
Jo-Ann

[drmvz]

Very sorry for your loss.
Mike

[Faith Ann Mom]

I am new and I just learning to navigate here. I read your post with great interest. My beloved dog Faith Ann has been diagnosed with Atypical Cushings. She had an Adrenal Panel in 5/13 & 2/14 at UTK. Her baseline were normal, and Post ACTH as follows:
POST ACTH - May 2013 - Feb 2014 - Range
Cortisol ng/ml 2013: 202.3 - 2014: 205.9 - (65.0 - 174.6)
Androstenedione 2013: 0.87 - 2014: 1.62 - (0.27 - 3.97)
Estradiol pg/ml 2013: 82.2 - 2014: 77.7 - (27.9 - 69.2)
Progesterone 2013: 1.70 - 2014: 1.58 - (0.10 - 1.50)
17OH Progesterone 2013: 1.47 - 2014: 1.22 - (0.40 - 1.62)
Aldosterone pg/ml 2013: 110.6 - 2014: 50.4 - (72.9 - 398.5)

Last year, May 2013, UTK Lab Dr. Eiler attached to the results the Treatment Option Considerations with this Comments: "Some vets may consider items 2-5 from Treatment Options if symptomatic". Items 2 to 5 were the Recommendations for Lignans & Melatonin protocol for Atypical Cushings. Since May 2013 to the present time Faith 12+ y/o 69 lbs Lab/Chow was placed on 40 mg HMR Lignan once a day and 6 mg Melatonin twice a day.
The 2013 results and the 2014 results, are not much different. The Estradiol is lower this year and Aldosterone is much lower this year, and the liver enzymes are much much better this year. There is some improvement. The test results this year came with no Recommendation. I wrote Dr. Eiler/UtK Lab asking for his Recommendation like he did last year and he answered that UTK does not make recommendations. I scanned the 2013 results with his Comments & Recommendations and emailed it to him to refresh his memory. I don't know if he would reverse himself and give a recommendation this year. I was disappointed because UTK are the champions on Atypical Cushings research. Reading your posts I see some of you are communicating with Dr Oliver, is he still at UTK? How can I contact him for some guidance? My vet does not want to treat my dog with Lysodren because the cortisol is marginal. I need someone give me a good advice based on their experience or tell me how I can contact Dr. Oliver. Thank you and God bless you all for being such wonderful caring parents for your beloved dogs.
Faith Ann Mom

Administrative Note: Faith Ann now has her own thread to which replies can be directly posted: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6116.