shaking - Ashlyn has passed

[Debi3c]

Hello my name is Debi. My Ashlyn is on her 2nd month vetroyl. She shakes so bad even while she sleeps. She started shaking before we found out she had cushing's.I even showed my vet a video of her shaking. He didn't really have a answer.After she was on vetroyl for a month. She still shook so bad! He put her on phenobarbital 1/4 gr. 2xaday. It did help at first really good, but she was so drugged.and she was throwing up the vetoryl and phenobarbital. The other vet put the phenobarbital down to one aday. and not to take the two meds. together. She has slowed down on her shaking, but not completely. She doesn't rest. she keeps me awake at night. She's also on xanax, Rimadyl and metronidazole. This my second cocker spaniel that I've had with cushing's. I lost my last cocker 10 years ago. so my daughter went right out a got me a puppy cocker and now I have to go though all this again! It hurts!

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Debi,

Welcome to you and Ashlyn! I am sorry your girl is having shaking issues, it does seem that shaking/tremors can be a side effect of Vetoryl.

Could you tell what dose of Vetoryl she is taking, and if it is given once or twice a day. Also has an ACTH stimulation test been done recently, and if so, could you post those results? Is Ashlyn taking her Vetoryl with food so that it is properly absorbed? Has her vet been performing the ACTH stimulation tests 4-6 hours after her dose of Vetoryl?

Phenobarbital is used for dogs that have seizures, has Ashlyn been having seizures? I was wondering what symptoms Ashlyn was displaying that led you or your vet to test for Cushing's in the first place? Also, what diagnostic tests did the vet perform to confirm her diagnosis of Cushing's, and could you post those results?

I am sorry for all these questions but the more we know about sweet Ashlyn the better our feedback can be, ok?

Please know we are here for you and Ashlyn and we will help in any way we can.

Hugs, Loei

[Debi3c]

Hello Loei,
Ashlyn is on 30 mg 1xaday with food in the mornings. She just had another ACTH test done again last week because of diarrhea and throwing up. but the test came back at something like 9.2 he said it was okay. I hope I got that right. I don't have the test, so Im trying to remember phone call. She never had seizures. She just shakes, all the time.She will be laying on the floor shaking. not stopping. We had her checked the first time because of drinking alot of water and panting. That test said she had it. So They did another test, just to make sure. That test came back she didn't have it. We took her back to the Vet cause she was still drinking,panting and shaking! So he took another test. This one said She had cushings and skin problems. So he put her on Vetoryl and something for her skin. But she kept shaking so Then they did a thyroid test. that came back okay. Thats when he put her on phenobarbital for shaking. Then she got diarrhea and throwing up. so they took another ACTH test.and that one came out okay (I guess).all this is so confusing! The stress of all this is so hard! I hope you can understand everything I've wrote. Thank you!!

[Harley PoMMom]

I forgot to ask a really important question, how much does Ashlyn weigh?

Also, if she is vomiting and/or diarrhea the Vetoryl has to be stopped.

[molly muffin]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

So, let me see if this is correct. You originally took her to the vet because she was drinking, panting and shaking? And then they tested for cushings and it came back, positive, then negative, then positive, so you started vertroyl and then she had peeing, panting, shaking, diarrhea and vomiting? And the cortisol is at post 9.2 now?

My first thought is that Ashylin has a pretty high probability of something else going on. Either other than cushings or in addition to cushings. Cortisol will be high if there is anything else going on in the body, UTI, severe infection, gall bladder, pancrease, etc. All will cause cortisol to be higher than normal as the body reacts.

If there is any vomiting and diarrhea, vetroyl shouldn't be given. These are not symptoms of cushings. They are symptoms of cortisol going too low (not in your case since the test shows it is 9.2), not cushings and the body reacting to the drug in a negative way perhaps, etc.

I would get an ultrasound and have a full blood panel done (we'll want to know which numbers are off high/low and the range) if you have had this done, then can you post that here? A urine culture (specifically a culture for bacteria, not just a urinalysis), and/or an ultrasound is that is feasible.

I wouldn't worry about the cushings possibility at the moment, until you can figure out what is causing this. Especially if the shaking was going on prior to starting vetroyl.

I hope that makes some sense and please ask any questions.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. I certainly have empathy for your situation. My Jack Russell Tipper does terrible tremors at note when sleeping. She does nor do it in the daytime, unless sleeping. I took her to a neurologist even. The neurologist said it was either seizures or tremors , but has no way of determining which. Sent me home with a medication that was very benign, it did not really do anything. It started in her leg and progressed up her body, and even her eyes twitch now. She never started this until on the Vetoryl so I am suspect of that. However she needs this medicine to live so there is little I can do. It is very hard watching this and she wakes me up at note doing this because she sleeps next to me. I hope you find out what is going on with your baby. Just one thought, I would not be giving other medicines with the Vetoryl as that may make problems. Blessings
Patti

[Debi3c]

Ashlyn is 19 pounds. she's not vomiting. She is on metronidazole 250mg for diarrhea. when she goes .it will be soft then a little harder than soft again but not running any more. They took her off of vetoryl..Till they re tested her. Then put her back on it.

[Debi3c]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

So, let me see if this is correct. You originally took her to the vet because she was drinking, panting and shaking? And then they tested for cushings and it came back, positive, then negative, then positive, so you started vertroyl and then she had peeing, panting, shaking, diarrhea and vomiting? And the cortisol is at post 9.2 now?

My first thought is that Ashylin has a pretty high probability of something else going on. Either other than cushings or in addition to cushings. Cortisol will be high if there is anything else going on in the body, UTI, severe infection, gall bladder, pancrease, etc. All will cause cortisol to be higher than normal as the body reacts.

If there is any vomiting and diarrhea, vetroyl shouldn't be given. These are not symptoms of cushings. They are symptoms of cortisol going too low (not in your case since the test shows it is 9.2), not cushings and the body reacting to the drug in a negative way perhaps, etc.

I would get an ultrasound and have a full blood panel done (we'll want to know which numbers are off high/low and the range) if you have had this done, then can you post that here? A urine culture (specifically a culture for bacteria, not just a urinalysis), and/or an ultrasound is that is feasible.

I wouldn't worry about the cushings possibility at the moment, until you can figure out what is causing this. Especially if the shaking was going on prior to starting vetroyl.

I hope that makes some sense and please ask any questions.

Sharlene and molly muffin

Sharlene,
yes eveything you said is correct! I'm up and down! I can't stand to watch her suffer! I don't want her to suffer! Debi and Ashlyn

[Debi3c]

I forgot to ask a really important question, how much does Ashlyn weigh?

Also, if she is vomiting and/or diarrhea the Vetoryl has to be stopped.

Ashlyn is 19 pounds. She's not vomiting and she's on metronidazole 250mg They stopped her vetoryl..Till they ran another test. then put her back on vetoryl. When she poops now.. it's soft then hard then soft. It's not runny. She only goes once a day now.

[Harley PoMMom]

30 mg of Vetoryl is a bit high for a dog weighing 19 lbs. Dechra has verbally recommended to members that a starting dose should be around 1 mg per pound of a dog's weight, for Ashlyn that means she should of started at no more than 20 mg of Vetoryl.

If this were me I would stop giving her the Vetoryl and when she starts eating normally I would evaluate her situation at that time.

Has diabetes and/or any thyroid problem been ruled out?

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Okay I'm thinking this is something other than cushings and an infection of some sort needs to be ruled out, whether intestinal, bladder, etc, also rule out crystals and rule out pancreatis too. If that is all ruled out, then if possible ultrasound to look at internal organs.
Of course you don't want her to suffer, and neither do we. Those are the things that I would do as soon as possible.

hang in there!
sharlene and molly muffin

[Debi3c]

It's been one week today, I had to put my sweet baby girl down! I'm hurting so bad! She was such a good girl! She didn't deserve the suffering She went though.

[molly muffin]

Oh Debi, I am so sorry that Ashlyn has passed.
I know your heart must be breaking.
My sincerest condolences.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry, this breaks my heart every time I see someone on here lost their baby. God Bless you and Ashlyn, she is running free of pain now because of your sacrifice to take the pain on yourself. Blessings
Patti

[labblab]

Oh, I am so very sorry, too! As painful as it must be, thank you so much for coming back to tell us what has happened to your sweet girl. She has now been added to our special list of honor:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?p=134278#post134278

We will always join you in remembering your darling Ashlyn, and we will always welcome you back should you wish to tell us how you are doing or to share some stories about your lives together.

Sending you warm hugs of sympathy on your loss,
Marianne

[Debi3c]

It hurts! I could tell the night before I took her. she was asking me to help her. We was up all night. Her panting so hard she couldn't lay still. She hadn't slept in 2 days and 2 nights. I stayed with her every minute with her day and night! I was hurting for her! I didn't want to do it! It was one of the hardest things I could of ever done. I think Ill be doing pretty good then Ill see something of hers! Today it was pictures! Then the hurt starts all over again! She was our baby! she was our companion. The vet tells us as they are putting her down that she has such bad blood circulation and she has been so sick! WHY didn't they tell me that when I asked at her last visit! I told them I did not want her to suffer! I just don't know what to do to stop the hurt. You know some people don't understand..Thank you for letting me vent! I miss her so much! Thank you again, Debi

[MBK]

Debi,

I am very sorry to read about the passing of your precious Ashlyn. I also had to make that decision concerning my precious Alivia on February 14th, so I understand all too well how difficult and painful it is. They always say, you will know when the time is right and although you knew in your head that was the right decision, the heart isn't always so logical.

Know that EVERYONE here fully understands how our dogs are family members and how devastating their loss is. Everyone grieves in their own way and there is no right or wrong way. You will have bad days and better days. It has been a huge comfort to me to be able to "talk" about things here, so maybe tht will also help you.

Again, I am very sorry for your loss.

[Debi3c]

Thank you for wriing me and listening to me. Maybe this will help me to talk to other people that understands what Im going though, It's not easy to talk to some people. thanks so much!!!

[molly muffin]

It is perfectly natural to feel this pain. This is a member of your family and just like when any other member would pass away, you will grieve.
There is nothing worse than seeing them in pain and not being able to fix it, to help them, to make it all better.
It is what you have done the entire time they have been with you. To not be able to do that is excruciatingly painful.
I'm so sorry Debi. :(
hugs
Sharlene

[Spencersmom]

Debi....so sorry! Seeing your baby suffer is something that not all will understand, unless they have seen the unconditional love of their pet, or known what it is like to look into the eyes of their baby asking for relief, or having to make the decision to end their pain! You are not alone! I send you hugs! Keep the good memories alive.

[apollo6]

I am so sorry for the lose of your sweet Ashlyn. No words will comfort you at this time. We understand too well,the grief,the lose,the pain.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[gatorgirl_bama]

Debi,
I'm so sorry to hear about Ashlyn. You are right in that no one understands how hard it is and how bad we hurt. No one that is except everyone here.

It's been 7 1/2 months since I lost my sweet Tia. She was almost 14 1/2 and almost 3 months since I lost my 16 yo Miss Tippi. I've cried, screamed, cussed, prayed, begged forgiveness, walked around in a daze for 7 1/2 months. This is where I come to find peace, understanding and compassion because I don't find it with anyone else that hasn't been through Cushings and what we've all endured with our angels.

People look at me like I'm crazy for still being this upset about losing "just a dog". The girls were my life, my children and they took my heart when they left me.

So if you feel like crying, you cry, if you feel like talking about your sweet Ashlyn, you talk about her. Because everyone here understands and will listen.

Sending love to you.
Donna

[Debi3c]

Hello!
I want to let everyone here know how much all your kind words have helped me. I have cried and cried till I couldn't breath! Then I would just look on here and someone would say just what I needed to hear. I have felt so much guilt! and wondering if I did do the right thing! Knowing in my mind she couldn't keep going the way she was! She was suffering! I sat up in our livingroom night after night with her. I go though the guilt then I'll go though I know I did the right thing, Then I'll run into some pictures and go though it all over again! I miss her so much! I hear her walking across the wood floors.or wake up in the night feeling her asking to go potty! It takes a second! Then I'll think you don't have to do that anymore! It hurts! But it's good to come to a place where I'm not alone in how much I loved or miss my baby girl! She's not just a dog! She was our baby.
Thank you all so much for just letting me ramble on and on!I'm so glad I found this site!! THANK YOU!!! Debi

[molly muffin]

Oh Debi, big hugs.
You grief for them just as you would for a child, they are our babies and letting go is not just hard it is impossible. The good thing is that you don't have to. Now they are safe and comfortable, snuggled in your heart where they will live on in your love for all time. The pain is gone, the shaking is gone.
Letting them go pass is the hardest thing to do and takes the most amount of love. One doesn't let them go because they don't care, they let them go because they care and love them so much.

sending love and support your way
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Oh Debi,

Huge hugs from me too, and we certainly do understand how much you miss dear Ashlyn.

There is no reason for you to feel any guilt as you did everything humanly possible for your girl and your deep love and devotion to her was evident.

We have all gone through those "what if" and "should have" I believe it's part of the grieving process but one should never dwell on that. We are here for you and we will always be here for you.

Love and hugs, Lori

[Spiceysmum]

I am so sorry to hear about Ashlyn. Everyone here knows exactly how you are feeling. My thoughts are with you.
Linda

[Trish]

She certainly was not "just a dog" we all understand that sentiment, so sad for your loss of Ashlyn (love that name) my condolences to you and your family as you grieve your baby girl xxxx

[Debi3c]

All I can say is Thank You! I miss her bad tonight. My stomach hurts with such a scared feeling. I came here and read your messages! Thank you! Just what I needed! We are going out for a few days in our RV camper.Going camping for a few days. We haven't been camping without her yet.... I'm scared. We would go for long walks in the campground everyday! She loved it! I'm not going to know what to do with myself!
Hope every one here has a great week-end! Thanks again! Debi

[doxiesrock912]

Debi,
go for those walks anyway. Get some much needed rest too.

[goldengirl88]

Thinking of you and your sweet Ashlyn. I am hoping the camping trip does you good to get away for a while. Blessings
Patti

[Debi3c]

Hello,
The camping trip didn't go to good..
It's a good thing we only live about 5 miles from the state park. We got there lastnight got set up..And I just couldn't do it! I got so sick to my stomach. Felt like I was going to loose it! So we turn on the out side lights on the RV. and went home to sleep. This morning my husband was going to take and leave me so he could run to the store. I thought that would be good, It was a pretty day! But when we got there I couldn't do it! So he took me back home! I don't know whats wrong with me!! I've never been this way! I've gotten where I can't stand being alone either! I get anxiety! My stomach gets a bad scared feeling!
I don't know, I've never been depressed before. So I don't know what to look for! Thanks for listening, Debi

[Iraklis]

So sorry to read this... :(

I can't say what will make things better as I am in the same dark place as you are...
Maybe...
Sleep or eat if it feels like it...
Take a walk someplace where you won't have to worry to hide your tears...
That's what i do...does it help?...Don't know...maybe it gives the body some time to help the mind if that makes sense...

<<<HUGS>>>

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry to hear this. The grief over a beloved companion can exceed that of a human. It is a very strong bond formed when your every waking moment is totally devoted to this baby. I feel your pain, and will some day be speaking the words you have spoken. God Bless you and your Ashlyn in heaven.
Patti

[molly muffin]

Oh Debi!! Sweetie I am so very sorry that you are going through this.

It hasn't really been that long either and grief, well, it needs time. How much time is impossible to say, it takes what it takes and really it sounds like this was maybe more than you could handle right now.

It is nice that your husband is being supportive it sounds like. He is likely grieving also. It must be hard on both of you.

You had a constant companion for a long time and now that companion is gone. It is natural to feel strange, nervous, anxiety at suddenly not having that companion there. It isn't necessary right now to try and analyze each one, just recognize that they are holes that are left where Ashlyn was at. To know that is to know what it is that you are dealing with, inside. It isn't just a hole in our heart that they leave, it is also a hole in our lives and sometimes it can be surprising where you find the holes at. (hope that made sense)

Baby steps. I say that all the time, but I really do mean it and it is true. No leaps and bounds, just a baby step.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[apollo6]

Dear Debbi
There is nothing I can say to ease your loss or pain. The shock of losing her so quickly is too much for you.

If It Should Be

If it should be that I grow weak
And pain should keep me from my sleep;
Then you must do what must be done,
For this last battle can't be won.

You will be sad, I understand;
But don't let grief then stay your hand.
For this day more than all the rest,
Your love for me must stand the test.

We've had so many happy years;
What is to come can hold no fears.
You don't want me to suffer so
The time has come, please let me go.

Take me where my needs they'll tend,
But please stay with me 'til the end
To hold me close and speak to me
Until my eyes no longer see.

I know in time you will agree,
It was a kindness done for me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I'm saved.

Please do not grieve that it was you
Who had this painful thing to do.
We've been so close, we two, these years;
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

(--Author Unknown--)

The pain you are feeling is overwhelming now. We are hear for you for support through this grieving. I lost my baby over 1 year and I am still grieving. these little fur balls are a part of our heart, they are our family, our babies. When you see them suffering and feel helpless the fall is even harder.
Hugs Sonja and Angel Apollo

[doxiesrock912]

Debi,
everyone grieves differently. In their own time.
Some do well getting away from it all, others don't. Grief is as individual as we are. There is no schedule but you are best to go through it as you need to and not push it away. Hopefully hubby understands. Hugs.