Eli and me

[jxeno13]

Hi! My name is Jo Ann and Eli is my baby. Although, Eli hasn't had any testing done yet, the vet is pretty certain it's possibly Cushing's. I tend to agree from what I've read so far on the disease. Hopefully, we caught it early, although, I guess that doesn't really mean too much..although, I'm not too sure of that part yet. I wish it wasn't Cushing's at all! They did a test for diabetes....not that. (which actually would have been better to have). From the blood panel some levels weren't right.....but I forget which ones right now. :( I will ask for and post the test results as I see you have asked for and many have done.

To start with Eli's story..he's a rescue from Nashville, TN. Having had a Cairn Terrier before (Betsy), who I so dearly missed...and they are such great companions, I had to have another Cairn Terrier or Cairn mix. Eli is a Cairn mix. I drove the almost 200 miles to meet him at the rescue where he had been for about 8 mos. They said at the time he was about 8 1/2 mos. old. But, actually from looking at the papers recently..Eli was about 8 1/2mos. old when they got him from the pound....so he was probably about 2 yrs old when I got him....that was Oct 12, 2005. I've had Eli now for about 8 1/2 yrs. ..making him about 10 - 11 yrs old. Eli still looks and acts like a young dog. I'm lucky in that Eli has had no health problems until now. He did have surgery for a benign tumor on his neck..when I took him Feb. 7th to have his teeth cleaned. Then right after I took him to have his stitches taken out ....he started with the water drinking (now up to about 64 + ozs a day....and yes, peeing gallons. What was once every 4 hrs. of taking him out...is now every hour, if not before. We do get plenty of exercise up and down stairs now. He has been gaining weight........but he's always been the little VERY successful beggar. Not only from me, but the neighbors. :) I have only noticed over the last year, thinking back now, that the only sign that I can point to also is every little noise seems to send him into a fright or flight. Usually, to my lap. I'm now his guardian. But, that's OK...he's my love!

We call Eli my youngest son. Even my youngest son, now 35, calls him his "little brother". :D And, Eli seems to think so too! I know you all are tired of my rattling on for now. I'm so thankful to have this forum! I'm still reading up on Cushing's even without a diagnosis yet. My Vet is a GP Vet. I live in small town and that's all we have. I, as many, have only limited financial resources. But, I'll go without to make sure Eli has what he needs. He's so deserving and loving.......he counts on me for everything. He doesn't even eat unless I'm here. If I am gone whoever watches him has to stay here with him. He sleeps with me as well and such a love.....<sigh> just so so sweet. Even as bad as he has to go out in the morning......he tries to wait until I get up......but knowing he has to go pee....I've been getting up earlier. Anyway.....

Why are the drugs so high?? That just shouldn't be!! :(

It's nice to meet you all! I promise not to make anymore long posts! :D

Jo Ann and Eli

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Jo Ann,

Welcome to you and Eli! Sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but so glad you found us.

Bless you for giving sweet Eli a forever home and it sounds like he has a very loving and wonderful mommy!

First things first ~ Cushing's is NOT a death sentence for a dog. Cushing's is a treatable disease and with keen owner observation and a knowledgeable vet with experience at treating Cushing's, dogs can live their normal life span usually with resolution of all symptoms!

We love details, so the more information we know about Eli the better our feedback can be, so do not ever apologize for giving us a lot of information, ok? ;)

Getting copies of all tests that were done and posting those results will help us, was any thyroid issue ruled out? Did Eli have an urinalysis done, and if so, could you post those results also...Thanks!

When a dog has Cushing's their body is producing excessive amounts of cortisol and the symptoms are usually; drinking buckets of water and peeing rivers because the extra cortisol makes their kidneys work harder, their appetite is ravenous, sometimes it causes skin/hair problems, and, yes, they can become sensitive to noises. With treatment many of these symptoms go away, that's what the drugs are for, to abate symptoms.

The two most rx'd drugs for Cushing's are Trilostane/Vetoryl and Mitotane/Lysodren. They are strong medications but are life savers for dogs with Cushing's. The initial expense is during the diagnostic phase and when a dog becomes stablized with treatment the costs do come down.

Unfortunately there isn't one test that is 100% accurate at diagnosing Cushing's. A vet usually has to perform multiple tests to validate a Cushing's diagnosis. What test/s is the vet recommending for diagnosing Cushing's? Has an ultrasound been done?

Please know we are here to help in any way we can so do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want.

Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

Hi Lori! Thanks so much for your very kind reply! No tests have been done yet, except for a blood panel. I only took Eli to the Vet on Thursday for what I suspected to be diabetes, because of his excessive drinking and urination all of a sudden. (like within a few weeks..and BAM...it seemed full blown). When the Vet ruled out Diabetes from the blood test....he soon suspected Cushing's. I suggested everything I could think of Urinary and kidney related....hoping for something nice and simple. Right now he's taking an antibotic to see if just maybe it could be a UTI....but the drinking and peeing have not subsided and the symptoms of a UTI were just not there. Like blood in his urine or pain while going. I have to call the Vet when the antibotics are gone and we're going to run the test for Cushings for beginning of the week. It was the 8 hr......for hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's) where the inject the higher dose of steroids every 4 hrs. (I think I have that right). So, we are barely...if even at the beginning of our journey. <sigh> They can't do a sonogram here.....so I have to take him somewhere else. I'll know all that next week. No, he's not had a Urine test yet......only a blood test.

I've been looking back at little things that have changed with Eli over the years......although subtle....the main thing......was that over that last year....the least little noise or banging outside that he hears, he makes a ran for it back into the house. Also, a lady tried to kidnap him last Sept.....and he's been really leary of strange people. He's also gained about 3 pounds since August after I cut out his treats. He's always been a beggar....and seems to be gaining instead of losing. I'm now thinking water weight. I feed him Blue Buffalo Healthy Weight ....and only try to give him healthy treats...sweet potato, etc....the home baked kind that I get at the pet store. Oh! And, his panting at night. He sleeps with me...and the panting started this year. I've been turning down the heat thinking maybe I had it too hot for him. He's never really down that before. And, a tremor in his front leg has started occasionally.........just when standing. A couple of times..I've noticed him stretching out his back leg.....I thought maybe he was getting arthritis ....but it only happened a couple of times. All signs to me now...of what is probably Cushing's.

My Vet is younger, but seems to know what he's talking about. He said not to get ahead of myself. :D But, I do want to be prepared!!

I've always had a rescue, and always have had the good luck to have great buddy's. They have done so much for me. I loved them all dearly....but Eli is so special and so good. (Betsy was too...she was abused.....Gosh they all were!). He's never even had an accident in the house yet (in 8 1/2 years).....he tries so hard to hold it until we can make it outside....and trust me....we make a run for it...sometimes leaving a dibble behind.......which I know makes him sad. :( I live on the 2nd floor in an apt....(I'm 68...and not healthy myself with COPD and a cancer survivor)......Eli has been my side all the way. Now, I have to be there for him! :D

[goldengirl88]

Hello and welcome to the forum.Sorry Eli has been experiencing problems. After the LDDS test is done we will want to see the numbers so please get a copy.Cushing's is a hard disease to diagnose, and other diseases have similar symptoms. Glad you got the diabetes checked. Many of the symptoms you mentioned my dog exhibited also, so it may turn out you are dealing with Cushing's. Has Eli ever been checked for thyroid problems? The reason I ask this is my dog is hypothyroid and was gaining weight. She was miserable and laying around, but after medication is better. She would drink a lot and be ravenous all the time.The panting you are noticing is also a symptom. These Cushing's dogs are prone to ACL tears. My dog had one, so that may be what you are seeing with him stretching out the back leg. Maybe he injured it, as it does not take much to do. There is a lot of muscle wasting and fat mobilization with Cushing's too. Your Dr.seems to be going in the right direction testing for Cushing's, as most vets don't even recognize the signs, and do not know how to treat it either. When you get the numbers from the test it will be easier to help you and answer your questions. Your dog certainly has many symptoms seen in Cushing's dogs.How old is Eli and how much does he weigh? You are not alone with this anymore, so we look forward to helping and supporting you through this journey. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Patti and Lori!! It's so great to find others who recognize my worries with Eli. :) I so appreciate you all and your help so much!

Eli is now about 10 years old, I figure, plus maybe a couple of months. Although, he's still puppy like and loves to run and play with other dogs...or he did anyway....lately he's become a couch potato.....but then the weather here in KY has been so cold..we haven't been out at all. He now weighs 29 pounds..as of last Thursday, March 6th....WAY over what he should weigh at 22 pounds or less. He's never even been sick, except for 1 time last Aug. 2013 with a virus...that's been it.

My Vet did seem pretty up on Cushing's and what to do...and what we needed to do next. I have also seen a dog that I know now had Cushing's Disease full blown...(no medication)....but fit every symptom, except for the seizures.


Thank you so much again!
Jo Ann and Eli

[addy]

Hi and Welcome from me as well.:)

Cushings usually moves slowly so it is always best to ensure you have a proper diagnosis. Take your time, learn all you can so you can be a strong voice for your Eli. I waited a year to start treatment as my pup had more problems from inflammatory bowel disease then she did from Cushings in the early days.

This forum is the best place for learning and support. Make sure to post any blood work test results- only those that are not normal with the normal range listed.

The rescues steal our hearts, I understand completely. :)

[jxeno13]

Hi Addy! Thanks for all your kind replies! I know from the blood test Eli had on last Thursday......the Vet said some numbers were off. I was still freaked out....from hearing the name of a disease not known to me. That was the hard part for me. My once healthier than I was baby....may have something I never heard of. :(

Yes, Addy, those rescues are real heart breakers! All mine have been rescues. :D They are something else!

I'll try and post Eli's picture soon. It's on my phone and I only have a flip phone...trying to move it now. Then I can figure out how to post it. :rolleyes: Takes me a few minutes to get a new website.

I did read some about your Zoe......I am so sorry for your loss. I really do know how that feels losing one. It's never easy. Sadly, Eli has to be my last baby. I'm too old right now to handle any more. I can't die first and leave a baby with no Mama. :(

Jo Ann and Eli

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Jo Ann,

AWWWW Eli sure is a cutie pie!!! He is adorable!!!

Does Eli have diluted urine? If so, a regular urinalysis may not be sensitive enough to pick up the bacteria, so I would strongly recommend having an urine culture and sensitivity test done, this test will be able to show exactly what the bacteria is and exactly what antibiotic is needed.

Hugs, Lori

PS Handy link to our Resource thread: Helpful Resources for Owners of Cushing's Dogs (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
You'll find a wealth of information there, if you have any questions just ask!!

[molly muffin]

Hi JoAnn and Eli, and welcome to the forum.

I think everyone had gotten you off to a good start with the cushings questions.

The good thing is that you do have time to learn everything you can about cushings and that is the biggest part of the battle right there. Once you know, it's not nearly as scary as is it is when you first hear those words.

Eli is adorable, what a cutie pie. I hope this weather clears up soon so you can get out and about and enjoy some walks together.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Hi Sharlene and all! <sigh> It's so nice to have others who understand and feel the same as I do about our babies. Many people don't get it. Even my own daughter said, "All I can see is dollar signs..... sounds like he needs to be put to sleep"......right off the bat. :eek: So, I can't really relay my feelings to family. :( That's just NOT going to happen!

Thanks! He is a sweetheart!! Around the first it'll be time for a haircut again. I've been putting it off, except for a trim here and there, because of the crappy weather. It's just been so bad for everyone this year!! But, tomorrow we're expecting 74!! A HEAT WAVE!! We're looking forward to a good walk together!! :cool: All your babies are adorable as well! Must be Cushing's only attacks the beautiful babies or something! :(

Anyway.....I'm not sure about his urine....I'd have to only guess right now......about it being diluted. Mainly, because I saw him pee in the snow......and after the snow wasn't yellow. :)

Right now he's on the antibiotic Clavamox 250 Mg 2X daily for 7 days....mainly to make sure it just wasn't an infection from something else. So far he seems about the same...although, he has slowed down "some" on drinking and peeing, but not much. I think anyway. I guess next week I'll be able to tell you all more about it....after he does the tests. I have to call the Vet as soon as he finishes the antibiotics to let him know how Eli is doing.......and we'll go from there.

Jo Ann

[jxeno13]

Well, sorry, I know it's been awhile since I've posted anything about Eli and our journey. The first ACTH test done about a month ago and was sent off to a lab....was destroyed or damaged in transit to the lab....so a week later he had to have the test done over again. That test came back a few days later positive for Cushing's. :( I also forgot (sorry) to get a copy of the results to post. I'll do that soon as I can. My daughter also had surgery on her knee..and running between her and Eli.....has kept me hopping to say the least. When he had the Cushing's test..(Right after the test) was MORE drinking and peeing).....and poor little guy just couldn't make it to the elevator in our apartment building. I had to get diapers for him..(at $1.50 a piece) which didn't work....and finally got the belly bands (5 of them, no less)...we were going outside to pee about every 45 mins. <sigh> But, those bands were worth their weight in gold for us!! Then came the pills after a few days...Vetoryl 60mgs a day for his weight......(the Vet said)...and for 10 days.....it was like a miracle watching him come back to his old self! ....Last Friday though......the bottom fell out, and he got sick(starting to drool and just acting strange)....back to the Vet on Sat....he gave him an anti-biotic...and said he may want to change his Cushing's med., but to call him on Monday, and let him know how Eli was..he really couldn't find any other reason for him being sick. Saturday, I bought Eli a Rotisserie chicken and made some rice and he ate that Sat...Sunday...he wasn't eating at all. Saturday night and Sunday vomiting several times....back to the Vet on Monday. Eli didn't have a temp and they couldn't find anything wrong with him........said he actually looked good....but, they gave him something for nausea. Eli now had been on the Vetoryl for 14 days.....we had planned on doing another ACTH Stimulation Test tomorrow.....but called that off. The Vet said to stop the Vetoryl and and to call him on Friday.....and that he may want to lower Eli's dose to every other day. ........My thoughts.......maybe Eli had reached the needed "loading"...since he was doing so well......and the Vetoryl had turned toxic on him and that is what is making him sick. Eli hasn't eaten now since Sunday morning....and then it only a very small amount of chicken and rice. He's been vomiting regular since.......but drinking water. I did stop the anti-biotics myself to not put any more stress on him.........since I'm having a very hard time even getting him to take the liquid for his nausea. Any ideas......other than what my thoughts may be?? He's really weak now...and very wobbily. I'm watching him closely..and hope by tomorrow he'll be feeling somewhat better. I took him off the Vetoryl today.......the Vet said we'd wait to do another ACTH test. :(

[Junior's Mom]

You need to get your dog to an emergency vet as soon as possible. It sounds like he is suffering an addisons crisis, which happens when your dogs cortisol goes too low.
Do not give him anymore vetoryl. Did your vet (who is useless by the way, and you should be running from him) give you any prednisone for an emergency? Eli will also need his electrolytes checked.
Please get him to a vet right away, it could be a matter of life and death.

[Renee]

Oh my goodness! Your VET I COULD KILL!

Do not give anymore vetoryl, at all, and get to an emergency vet right away. Have his electrolytes checked and his cortisol. He needs prednisone to bring his cortisol back up.

Your vet should have told you - you never, ever give vetoryl to a sick dog. As soon as Eli got sick, the medication should have been stopped immediately.

[Renee]

Okay, I am posting again. I see you are still online, so I hope you are reading this.

First, the dose of vetoryl prescribed was much too much. It is good that you saw initial improvement, but the drug continues to lower cortisol over time, so obviously, Eli's cortisol has dropped too low.

As soon as he got sick, your vet should have told you to stop all medication, and check his cortisol and electrolytes. Sickness is a sign of cortisol dropping too low. Unlike cushings, which progresses slowly, addison's can come on quite quickly and cause death very quickly.

Secondly, your vet is a bloody fool. You cannot dose vetoryl every other day. It has a very short half-life. He is killing your dog. I wish I could say this in a nicer way... but, there is nothing nice to say about such an incompetent vet.

[jxeno13]

Well Crap! No......there are no emergency vets around here! Anywhere! ........<sigh> This is a small town.....I have a neighbor who has some prednisone for a dog....but I hate to give him anything without knowing what I'm doing. I didn't give him any Vetroyl today at all....and hadn't planned too. <sigh> I can't get him back to the Vet until thee morning. :mad:

[Junior's Mom]

If your neighbour has prednisone, get it. It will raise Eli's cortisol and could save his life. Most vet offices have a deal with another office for emergencies. Call your vets office and see if they leave a number on their answering machine for an emergency vet. Do not go back to your vet again.

[jxeno13]

Renee, I can read your post. I can't get Eli back to the Vet until 7:30 in the morning. I can tell him then what I need. .....I do have a neighbor that has some Predisone because her little chihuahua had a stroke the other day. But hate giving him anything when I don't know how much. .........This is a small town and not much is around here. :(

[jxeno13]

How much should I give him is the question? I'll be right back.....hopefully she didn';t throw it out!

[Junior's Mom]

Other members can comment to the exact prednisone dosage required, but for my 50lb dog, my vet has prescribed 25mg to be given in a crisis. So if your dog is still about 22lbs, then 12 or so mg should be fine for him.
Your vet should not have started Eli on more than 20mg of vetoryl. 1mg per pound is the standard most recommended now.

[Renee]

Get the predisone from your neighbor. I have to go look up the correct dosing unless someone else can pop in real quick. Either way, get the pred, it could save Eli's life.

[Junior's Mom]

Did you get the prednisone? Did you find an emergency vet's office?

[jxeno13]

I have the Predisone....now I'm trying to call the Vet to see if they have an emergency Vet on call.

[Junior's Mom]

Do you know how much Eli weighs now? How many mg are in a tablet of the pred you got?

[Renee]

If they don't have an emergency vet (which they should) then at least give the pred and be at the vet clinic first thing in the morning.

[jxeno13]

I'm going to run to the Vet's.....he's getting me some more Predisone......I'm not sure that I have enough from the neighbor....while I'm there I'm I'll also get some type of something with electrolytes in it. I should be back in about a half hour. Thank you all so much!!

[Renee]

No, no... he doesn't need something with electrolytes (you are thinking gatoraide?). He needs his electrolytes checked, as they can get all out of whack from the cortisol dropping.

I am so glad you are getting the pred though.

[Junior's Mom]

Make sure your vet runs an acth and checks your dogs electrolytes. Do not start the vetoryl again until your dogs symptoms reappear, and if you have to work with this @@@@@dude, tell him in no uncertain terms that you want to start again no higher than 20mg. Prednisone can make them drink more, so don't worry about that.

[Junior's Mom]

I hope Eli turns around. There will be members on here through the night usually.

[mcdavis]

I hope that Eli improves once you get the pred - we'll be thinking about you.

[My sweet Ginger]

Here is a portion of what Lori ( one of our wonderful admins.) said about the rescue dose that I found and here it is anyway.
Hope he feels better soon. Your vet is a scary one.


'The standard rescue dose of pred is 0.25mg/kg. To find her wieght in kg, divide the lbs by 2.2...then multiply that result (her weight in kg) by 0.25 and you will have the amount for her weight.

If she weighs 50lbs...50/2.2 = 22.7 * .25 = 5.68mg of pred. Though since she is really feeling yucky, I would give alittle more.

Love and hugs, Lori '

So going by by this ; 22 lbs / 2.2 = 10 kg x .25 = 2.5mg of pred.
Please let us know how he is.

[jxeno13]

I just got back from the Vet's....he gave me Predisone 20 mg pills (my choice) which would be easier to give him......but I also brought home an injection to give him in the morning when I have someone to hold him. The liquid I have to force him to take and he seems to sling most of that around the room somehow. I'll also get some Pedi-a-lite in the morning for him. Thank you for the MUCH needed helpful advice!! I can't thank you enough!!! :D:D:D:D:D I've been sick over all this myself! ....

I had been to the dentist today and had to have 5 teeth pulled myself..so I was slow to get this message out.

I am so thankful for you! Perhaps, he'll make a "come back" and feel better soon, I hope!! <sigh>

[jxeno13]

No, no... he doesn't need something with electrolytes (you are thinking gatoraide?). He needs his electrolytes checked, as they can get all out of whack from the cortisol dropping.

I am so glad you are getting the pred though.

Oh! OK.....got this now. :D

[My sweet Ginger]

Well, I was going through your posts quickly and I see that Eli now weighs 29lbs instead of 22 in the beginning. So that would make a dose of 3.3mg prednisone. ;) Does he weigh more now?

[jxeno13]

Here is a portion of what Lori ( one of our wonderful admins.) said about the rescue dose that I found and here it is anyway.
Hope he feels better soon. Your vet is a scary one.


'The standard rescue dose of pred is 0.25mg/kg. To find her wieght in kg, divide the lbs by 2.2...then multiply that result (her weight in kg) by 0.25 and you will have the amount for her weight.

If she weighs 50lbs...50/2.2 = 22.7 * .25 = 5.68mg of pred. Though since she is really feeling yucky, I would give alittle more.

Love and hugs, Lori '

So going by by this ; 22 lbs / 2.2 = 10 kg x .25 = 2.5mg of pred.
Please let us know how he is.


Hummm.....Eli weighs 30 lbs. now. ...Since, I'm new at this.....I'll be keeping an emergency dose around. I hate learning the hard way at his expense, that's for sure! :( ....The Vet gave him 20 mg tablets.....2X daily for 3 days ..then 1X daily for 3 days. Wow! I take that much when I'm sick.

[jxeno13]

Well, I was going through your posts quickly and I see that Eli now weighs 29lbs instead of 22 in the beginning. So that would make a dose of 3.3mg prednisone. ;) Does he weigh more now?

He keeps gaining. Now, he's at 30 lbs. 3.3 mg?? Hum.....I just gave him a 20 mg pill. :(

[Junior's Mom]

It's been a rough day all around for you. Did you get the pred into him? Did you slap your vet silly when you saw him?
I'm off to bed, but others will be around. I'm sending positive vibes your way. I hope Eli is better soon. The pred should have an effect within 1/2 hour.
Make sure you get him into a vet in the morning, and have the proper tests run.
Tracey

[jxeno13]

For the injection the Vet has a 1/2 ml in the needle.

[jxeno13]

It's been a rough day all around for you. Did you get the pred into him? Did you slap your vet silly when you saw him?
I'm off to bed, but others will be around. I'm sending positive vibes your way. I hope Eli is better soon. The pred should have an effect within 1/2 hour.
Make sure you get him into a vet in the morning, and have the proper tests run.
Tracey

Hi Tracey! Got the Pred in him. I'm getting ready to take him out and put him to bed for the night. This is usually his last run for the night. I'll get him back to the Vet in the morning and run those tests. I have to keep the same Vet. Maybe, with you all...we can teach him a few things. :D It's worth the try.....he's young yet. Have a good night. I'm taking him out.....and laying down myself after I check through these messages. I'll be keeping this page up from now on!! Thank you all so much! Hopefully, I won't need anyone during the night. I know I sure did need someone the last few nights. You are all just great!!

[My sweet Ginger]

30bls would be 3.4mg prednisone and probably 5mg should be ok but 20 mg? That just sounds too much for Eli's weight. You can quarter those pills. I even quarter 1mg pills for my pup.
How much did the vet wanted you to give to Eli?

[Renee]

Deep breath. You did the right thing.

If you must keep your vet, and I understand where you are coming from, then it is critical that you learn as much about managing cushings as possible so you can guide your young vet. He has made some very, very stupid and dangerous mistakes, but if he can learn from this, then maybe he can be a better vet.

20mg is a very large dose - but, it won't kill him. My pug, who is 20 pounds, was put on 20mg of pred when we thought she had cancer. It did not harm her, and she was tapered off of it within 10 days.

[jxeno13]

I'm back from taking him out. I also stopped by my neighbors. He's still wobbly (of course) but, laying down asleep now. Hopefully, by tomorrow he'll perk up some. I don't think the 20 mgs should hurt him....(not knowing too much in dog terms) but, I did have another dog that took Predisone for allergies for years, but I think he took 5 mg daily...and was much smaller than Eli. I'll keep a close eye on him. Since he's been sick, I don't leave him.....and when I do have to go somewhere, I have neighbors that check on him. When he's sick like this....I don't leave him at all...except for today......I did have that dentist appointment. The Vet is right down the road from me......and actually lets me charge things....almost unheard of even here in this small town. ...There is another Vet down the road, more expensive, and I could never charge anything. My Vet now.....hasn't even charged me the few trips.

As I can learn from you all, I can also research and I know we can teach him as well. :)

[jxeno13]

Make sure your vet runs an acth and checks your dogs electrolytes. Do not start the vetoryl again until your dogs symptoms reappear, and if you have to work with this @@@@@dude, tell him in no uncertain terms that you want to start again no higher than 20mg. Prednisone can make them drink more, so don't worry about that.


I'll have him check Eli's electrolytes and run another ACTH test. I did read...1 mg of Vetoryl per pound? ...When all his numbers are correct again....when a dog gets to the maintenance part ......don't they take 1-2 pills a week? .......I am getting that right?

I know I need to read so much more. :( I have soooooo much to learn!!

[Trish]

Hey! I am no cushings expert but I do know the answer to your questions. Vetoryl is a daily dose, once you get the dosage right and the acth in the good range it stays the same daily dose. You must be thinking of lysodren, the other drug commonly used for cushings, one you get the dog loaded and good numbers then they go on maintenance dosing which is usually twice a week. If I have anything wrong then I am sure the real experts will be along to put you straight!!

[jxeno13]

Hey! I am no cushings expert but I do know the answer to your questions. Vetoryl is a daily dose, once you get the dosage right and the acth in the good range it stays the same daily dose. You must be thinking of lysodren, the other drug commonly used for cushings, one you get the dog loaded and good numbers then they go on maintenance dosing which is usually twice a week. If I have anything wrong then I am sure the real experts will be along to put you straight!!

Hi Trish! OK, I see what you're saying. I'm VERY new at this. As you can see I didn't/don't know the difference between the Lysodren and the Vetoryl. :( Except for the price anyway. :) .....When Eli was still sick today (earlier, I also had him at the Vet) he said to stop his Vetoryl...and he wanted to wait to do another ACTH on him. I was supposed to call him back on Friday. But, as the day went on (I had a dentist appt.) Eli was just kept getting worse. <sigh> ....Whatever tests they do here......they have to send to another town to a lab.....and don't get the results for a few days. Small tests they can do here....the ACTH they had to send off. ......

I just thought the Vetoryl worked the same way as the Lysodren.....daily until the numbers got right.......and then maintenance. So, I guess Eli, the dosage was too high....and probably should have taking no more than say 30 mg.....(if it's 1 mg per pound).....that is if the numbers are right with the ACTH test. Thank you so much for letting me know that!

Jo Ann :)

[jxeno13]

I found this on one Vetoryl website for dosage -

Weight (lbs.) Weight (kg) Dosage
3.8-10 lbs. 1.7-4.5 kg 10 mg once daily
10-22 lbs. 4.5-20 kg 30 mg once daily
22-44 lbs. 10-20 kg 60 mg once daily
44-88 lbs. 20-40 kg 120 mg once daily
88-132 lbs. 40-60 kg 180 mg (1 x 120 mg & 1 x 60 mg) once daily
Ten days to two weeks after starting Vetoryl, your veterinarian will perform more tests including an ACTH stimulation test. Once the tests are complete they will advise you on how to continue your canine companion's treatment.

Eli was taking 60mg....for 10 days he great.....up until Friday.... :(

[molly muffin]

We have members and admins in touch with dechra the manufacturer of vetroyle. Them along with more recent studies like from university of Davis now recommend starting on lowest end of dosage. This is to reduce the risks of overdose. What Eli is going through now. Every dog is different and we don't know how any one of them will react to any medication.
60mgs is a crazy place to start a small dog. A vet can't just read the insert and think that is all there is to it. You can also call dechra yourself if in the USA.
It isn't something that can be fooled around with and your vet has to get up to speed pronto. Testing is there for a reason and never give a sick dog vetroyl.
You will not be giving vetroyl at all till symptoms return and testing ACTH comes back as adrenal glands working again. This could be weeks to months. First thing first is to get elu through this crisis.

Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Tina]

Hi Jo Ann,
I'm sorry to read that Eli is not well. I have some concerns after reading through your thread. First of all, 20 mg of predisone is a large dose for the size of your dog. And the vet said to give 20 mg twice a day for 3 days? I would not give it twice a day until you can clarify that with your vet in the morning. Also, how much of your neighbors prednisone did you give Eli before he got the 20 mgs from your vet?

What medication were you given that is to be injected in the morning?

You mentioned getting another ACTH test in the morning. It will not be accurate due to the prednisone that Eli has been given. He must be off prednisone for at least 24 hours in order for the test to be accurate.

Since Eli has been vomiting since Sunday, he is at risk for dehydration. It is imperative that you get his electrolytes checked as soon as absolutely possible. As others have said, when cortisol gets too low, the electrolytes can often get out of whack. One of the main symptoms of an electrolyte imbalance due to an Addison's crisis is vomiting.

In this situation it is impossible to know if Eli's symptoms are due to low cortisol alone. The electrolytes must be checked, and if imbalanced, IV fluids may be needed, along with another medication specifically to stabilize the sodium and potassium. Please do not give any pedialyte. It is high in potassium, and in a crisis sodium typically goes low and potassium goes high, so giving pedialyte could make that worse. It is not uncommon for hospitalization to be needed during a crisis. I don't want to scare you, but this is an emergency and can be fatal if not properly managed.

And no more Vetoryl for now. You never give Vetoryl to a dog that is not well.

How is Eli doing now? You may be up during the night with him due to increased drinking and urinating due to the prednisone.

Let us know how he is doing when you can.

Tina and Jasper

[addy]

I have to agree with Tina, that is a whopping pred dose for a pup with Cushings, when the rescue dose for an Addison's crisis is much lower. Our IMS called in 20 mgs for me to have on hand and when I called back and questioned her about the dose, she looked it up and admitted she gave me the wrong dose so I am plenty worried your vet is not up to speed on things which means you need a crash course on Cushings so you can be the best advocate for your pup.

Hopefully one of our administrators will pop by to give their thoughts on the prednisone.

[addy]

I have to agree with Tina, that is a whopping pred dose for a pup with Cushings, when the rescue dose for an Addison's crisis is much lower. Our IMS called in 20 mgs for me to have on hand and when I called back and questioned her about the dose, she looked it up and admitted she gave me the wrong dose so I am plenty worried your vet is not up to speed on things which means you need a crash course on Cushings so you can be the best advocate for your pup.

Hopefully one of our administrators will pop by to give their thoughts on the prednisone.

Tina is also correct that you have to wait for the prednisone to be shed from the body before you can give an ACTH test or the results will not be accurate.

Please let us know what is going on.

[jxeno13]

Hi Jo Ann,
I'm sorry to read that Eli is not well. I have some concerns after reading through your thread. First of all, 20 mg of predisone is a large dose for the size of your dog. And the vet said to give 20 mg twice a day for 3 days? I would not give it twice a day until you can clarify that with your vet in the morning. Also, how much of your neighbors prednisone did you give Eli before he got the 20 mgs from your vet?

What medication were you given that is to be injected in the morning?

You mentioned getting another ACTH test in the morning. It will not be accurate due to the prednisone that Eli has been given. He must be off prednisone for at least 24 hours in order for the test to be accurate.

Since Eli has been vomiting since Sunday, he is at risk for dehydration. It is imperative that you get his electrolytes checked as soon as absolutely possible. As others have said, when cortisol gets too low, the electrolytes can often get out of whack. One of the main symptoms of an electrolyte imbalance due to an Addison's crisis is vomiting.

In this situation it is impossible to know if Eli's symptoms are due to low cortisol alone. The electrolytes must be checked, and if imbalanced, IV fluids may be needed, along with another medication specifically to stabilize the sodium and potassium. Please do not give any pedialyte. It is high in potassium, and in a crisis sodium typically goes low and potassium goes high, so giving pedialyte could make that worse. It is not uncommon for hospitalization to be needed during a crisis. I don't want to scare you, but this is an emergency and can be fatal if not properly managed.

And no more Vetoryl for now. You never give Vetoryl to a dog that is not well.

How is Eli doing now? You may be up during the night with him due to increased drinking and urinating due to the prednisone.

Let us know how he is doing when you can.

Tina and Jasper

Hi! Thanks so much to all for your help! I too was thinking Eli needed some kind of IV for hydration right now. He's not holding down even water at this point. <sigh> ..Eli, so far only has had the 20 mg of Predisone that I gave him last night. I didn''t give him any of the neighbor's prednisone that I have. .....Nor, have I given him any Pedialyte. ....The Vet doesn't open until 7:30 AM....I'm in SE KY....in KY, about 35 miles NE of Bowling Green. I'm not from here.(Chicago and Northern CA..) but, do live here now. :( ....I don't understand really why they don't seem more concerned about Eli's condition. :( I guess that could be why I felt he was safer here with me.

I only gave him the 20 mg of Predisone last night....waited about 2 hours and then gave him the stomach medication of 60mg Comfate (sp) Sys......5ml dose. He did hold that down. ....But later when he drank some water.....he threw up the water. (I had up the water up...for about a half hour, then put it back down. )

[Squirt's Mom]

My gods! I can barely breath reading all that has happened! Sweetheart, I'm going to be extremely blunt here. Take Eli's medical records and run, do not walk, RUN from this vet as fast as you possibly can before they kill Eli with their ignorance. This vet has been wrong in just about everything they had done to, not FOR, Eli. When you told them he was sick, the very first thing out of their mouths should have been to tell you to stop the Trilo and get him in asap for an ACTH. Instead they left him in a life-threatening situation. :mad::mad::mad:

For now, do not give another Vetoryl (Trilostane) pill to Eli - not one single pill until he has another vet who is a bit more learned and a great deal more responsible and caring. FORCE that vet to give him the ACTH and check his electrolytes this morning then get the heck out of there and never go back. I'd do my best to get those tests for free since they flat ignored his situation and gave you very, very bad advise from the start of this crisis. Eli could have easily died due to their irresponsibility and ignorance, which I have to assume is willful since the information is freely available on these drugs and how to use them.

Please let us know how Eli is this morning and what this dangerous vet has to say.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jxeno13]

So, I'm taking Eli in this morning and having asking them to check his electrolytes? I'm also going to tell them about his still vomiting up the water.....and probability needing an IV for hydration. Also........asking about the dosage for Predisone. Eli is still just sleeping or laying here...he does wag his tail....that's about it. I have taken him out. He's not too good on his feet. :( Understandably, so.

[jxeno13]

I'm scared to leave him there now. :( Other Vets here won't take animals without cash. I'm on my way there now. :( All l I can do is pray.

[My sweet Ginger]

Hi, what kind of improvements did you see last night after you gave him 20mg prednisone? I'm very, very worried about Eli at this point if he can't even hold down any water especially after the large dose of prednisone.
I'm glad to hear that you didn't give him any additional prednisone and pedialyte and especially do not give him 20mg twice a day for three days as the vet said last night. Is that place open for 24 hours if there was a vet late last night?

It sounds like he needs to be hospitalized and get checked out ASAP.
I'm hoping and I'm sure one of our much more experienced will come by and give you more instructive advice very soon with which questions to ask the vet when you go there with him this morning. Please, do stay on here as much as you can and check with us with his progress through out the day as we are very worried about him.
I'm so sorry this is happening.

[My sweet Ginger]

You can't leave this monster vet right now as getting Eli back is the top priority.
Seems like you need to have this vet to:
1) put Eli on IV
2) check his electrolytes
3) perform an ACTH Stimulation Test
and whatever else he needs this morning.

I'm praying that he will rally back with the proper treatments.

[goldengirl88]

Praying that you get Eli to the emergency in time? Please let us know what happens and please listen to what the others have advised, no Vetoryl please. This is a situation that needs immediate attention. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

You can't leave this monster vet right now as getting Eli back is the top priority.
Seems like you need to have this vet to:
1) put Eli on IV
2) check his electrolytes
3) perform an ACTH Stimulation Test
and whatever else he needs this morning.

I'm praying that he will rally back with the proper treatments.

Here's what is happening so far. I forgot to get a copy of the blood test on Eli and (Electrolytes) result. I know..I'll have it posted by this afternoon, if I can. I was hysterical by this morning and had to pull myself together to get everything right. Buck up..in other words. I got the apartment manager to take me to the Vet this morning.....and told her to what I needed to tell the Vet....in case I started blubbering (which I didn't). I had him run a blood test for Eli's Electrolytes......which were actually OK. ...but showed in the blood were that his white blood count was high and liver was a little off.....showing him that Eli had an infection somewhere, even though he didn't have a fever. His wobbling, etc......was the result of being somewhat dehydrated. They kept him at least until over night...and are giving him an IV to re-hydrate him, and an anti-biotic by injection/or in his IV since he's not holding anything down...or the pills are't doing anything that I had been giving him..(anti-biotic)...The predisone...they'll also give him there. Hopefully, he'll come home in one piece. He did OK last night on the one pill of 20 mg that I gave him. I did not give him anything this morning. The Vet's conclusion from the blood test....was that Eli has an infection of some sort. No Vetoryl will be given to him at all.

[Squirt's Mom]

Did the vet do an ACTH? If not, INSIST that he does so NOW. ;) I don't trust this vet any further than I can throw an elephant so them saying it is an infection means nothing....and scares the crap outta me. :(

[jxeno13]

No ACTH....someone on here already said that they couldn't do an ACTH if Eli already had Predisone in his system. :( At least not for 24 hours anyway. Also, it would be a few days before the results came back since the ACTH test has to be sent away........which sucks.

[jxeno13]

I just called the Vet's office...they may not be able to do that ACTH test until the morning (the girl said there are certain stipulations to doing one)........the Vet will call me back. I know he can't have Predisone in his system for 24 hours...and it has to be done first thing in the morning. So, he may have to wait for a couple of morning in Eli's condition right now. IDK I have to wait and see....He was already putting him on IV anti-biotics and predisone......and fluids this morning early.

There are also several Vets in this office....I'm sure (surely) he'll confer with someone else. Hopefully! :(

So, that may be an impossibility right now for today anyway.

[goldengirl88]

I am not understanding what is going on. Did you leave Eli with this vet???

[jxeno13]

I am not understanding what is going on. Did you leave Eli with this vet???

Yes....Eli is in the hospital right now. They're running an IV for fluids, an anti-boitic, and possibly predisone. NO Vetoryl at all. .He ran a blood test on him..and his electrolytes were OK. But, they said he does have an infection. All his other levels were potassium, etc. were OK. His wobbling, etc..were from dehydration. <sigh> I'm waiting for a phone call from him now...when I asked for him to run an ACTH..as soon as they can.......which possibly they can't do until tomorrow early morning. The results have to be sent off, and won't have those results for a couple of days. :(

[jxeno13]

Hi, what kind of improvements did you see last night after you gave him 20mg prednisone? I'm very, very worried about Eli at this point if he can't even hold down any water especially after the large dose of prednisone.
I'm glad to hear that you didn't give him any additional prednisone and pedialyte and especially do not give him 20mg twice a day for three days as the vet said last night. Is that place open for 24 hours if there was a vet late last night?

It sounds like he needs to be hospitalized and get checked out ASAP.
I'm hoping and I'm sure one of our much more experienced will come by and give you more instructive advice very soon with which questions to ask the vet when you go there with him this morning. Please, do stay on here as much as you can and check with us with his progress through out the day as we are very worried about him.
I'm so sorry this is happening.

He didn't have much improvement after the 20MG of Predisone after I gave him the Predisone last night (he did throw up before we went to bed..and again early this morning after we woke up....although he didn't throw up during the night. I didn't give any more of anything in the morning when I took him to the Vet around 8 this morning. I met the Vet last night without Eli to get some Predisone....although I had been there yesterday morning....and everyday before that. ...Sat, Mon, Tues, and today......he's staying there today. :(

[jxeno13]

Oh! Sorry...his white blood count was really high! I'm sorry. And, liver enzymes were slightly elevated.

[goldengirl88]

Praying for your baby Eli, and hoping it all works out. I am sorry this is really upsetting I know. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

oh yes I can see that with the white blood count high, they'll want to give an antibiotic, but do they know where the infection is? What has caused it? no vetroyl period until things are back to normal and you see any cushing symptoms again.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Junior's Mom]

Have you spoken with the vet? Is Eli any better?
The acth test is the only test that will show if his cortisol dropped too low. Yes, prednisone would affect it, because it raises the cortisol levels. That is why it is needed in an emergency.
If Eli's cortisol is too low, and the vet is not giving him any prednisone, he will not improve.
You said he vomited more last night, he may not have gotten enough pred in his system if that is the case.
Please update us when you can as to his condition, we all worry a lot on here.
Tracey

[Trish]

Gosh what a bad few days for you guys, hope Eli has perked up today and feels a lot better getting rehydrated. Good his electrolytes are OK, that will be a big relief! Hope we good a positive update when you hear how he is doing. You got great advice from the members here!

[goldengirl88]

Were you able to find out what kind of infection Eli has? I hope he is doing better and feeling better. I also hope you are OK. I know this has to be hard on you. Blessings
Patti

[mcdavis]

I am really hoping that Eli is OK.

I am no expert on Cushings, however there are some wonderful caring experts on this board and they will do whatever they can to help.
I have however been in a similar position with having to use a vet with limited knowledge (and in my case their only motivation was $$$) and the best advice I received was to be my dog's advocate - if you do need to continue to use this vet then read everything you possibly can, ask questions and learn from the people here, and don't be afraid to question what your vet says.

[goldengirl88]

I totally agree with the above posting, because this describes the relationship with my vet, little knowledge of Cushing's, and just wants to make money on my Tipper. I do not let him decide anything, I research everything, and come on here
and get help, then I tell him what to do. It is the only recourse I have as the other vets which there are not many here, are worse than mine. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi! I called about Eli at 4 and he was doing OK. He was sitting up in the kennel and had taken in some water, and kept it down so far. They are giving him IV fluids, Predisone and anti-biotics all IV. ...They really didn't know where the infection was. But, they are watching him.....and he'll be checked on through out the evening and night. His Vet is not on call tonight, but he'll be checked on by a Vet during the night. It's been a sad day without him here at home and me worrying about him. ...I'll check on him again in the morning. It looks like it will be a long night. .....I asked about the ACTH test....but, of course, that will have to wait he said because they can't do it while he's on Predisone.

Thank you so much for all your information and concern for Eli. <heart>

[jxeno13]

I am really hoping that Eli is OK.

I am no expert on Cushings, however there are some wonderful caring experts on this board and they will do whatever they can to help.
I have however been in a similar position with having to use a vet with limited knowledge (and in my case their only motivation was $$$) and the best advice I received was to be my dog's advocate - if you do need to continue to use this vet then read everything you possibly can, ask questions and learn from the people here, and don't be afraid to question what your vet says.

Thank you, McDavis! I'm hoping Eli can pull out of this as well. He is my baby! I actually do have to stick with this Vet. Actually, there is one other that I quit seeing because he was only looking out for the $$$$...and was doing things to my previous baby that I didn't even ask for. Then my daughter took her dog in choking on something....and they wouldn't help her because she didn't have the $$$$ up front to pay them. ....So, I've been seeing this Vet now for several years....I guess they just aren't that up to snuff on Cushing's...although he does have another dog on Cushing's meds at the office. ...They let me charge what I need to and pay when I get my check. These last days....they haven't even charged me anything. ....So, I'm just going to have to learn as much as I can, and be Eli's advocate with this Cushing's which is all new to us. ...Eli is about 10 - 11....(he was a rescue)..and has never been sick before....I've had him about 8 1/2 yrs now. ...Since he has been a basically healthy, sturdy terrier...I'm hoping he'll pull though this. :)

I do want to thank you all for your kind words, thoughts and good wishes, and prayers.

[Squirt's Mom]

Ok....well if you simply have NO OTHER options for a vet, then you have a lot of work ahead of you. ;) Then hopefully this vet will be willing to listen to you, learn from you, and work with you as a team for Eli. As a member of this team, that means you question the vet, you never take anything they say as fact until you have researched it yourself, you do not just blindly accept any medication they want to give Eli...and that you become educated on canine Cushing's. :) So to get you started here are some links with good information -

First, check out our Helpful Resource Section -
K9C Resource section:
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Now some other links (some of which may be found above as well) -

Long Beach Animal Hospital*
http://www.lbah.com/canine/cushings.htm

Drs. Foster and Smith*
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2097&aid=416

Newman Veterinary*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushingDiag.html

Cushing’s signs and pics*
http://www.newmanveterinary.com/CushSignFrame.html

BMD Health Library*
http://www.bestbeau.ca/bmd_health_links_4.htm
(scroll down to see Endocrine Diseases)

Mar Vista Animal Medical Center*
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/cushing_s_disease.html

Washington State Uni. – College of Veterinary Medicine
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/cliented/cushings.aspx

Kate Connick*
http://www.kateconnick.com/library/cushingsdisease.html

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185 (Vetoryl information)

There! That should give you something to do today....I'll find something else for tomorrow. :p Just kidding! Do read through the links, tho, and if you have any questions, please ask - we will do all we can to help you help Eli.

Let us know how our sweet boy is doing today! VERY nice to hear the report from last evening!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

Great job on the links Leslie. She has the same situation I do, and must watch me very single thing this vet does, and never ever trust them to do the right thing. It is a lot of work and sometimes I feel like why am I paying him all this money and I do all the work?? Well if I didn't myTipper would not be here, so it is a must since I have no other vets either. I a! Hoping we hear something this morning on sweet Eli. What a cutie pie he is!. Please let us know when you hear something, and what they are planning to do in the event it is not a good idea you can get help on here. God Bless you both
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi! Thank you, Leslie too for all the links! I actually ordered a belly band from Drs. Foster and Smith. Great bands they have there! I have become an authority on belly bands! :D

I call the Vet again at 8 AM. I feel so bad for Eli....and nervous at the same time. He hates so much to be away from me...and has not spent any nights in a cage in over 10 yrs...since his early days at the Nashville pound. :( ...He's probably wondering what happened to me..and why I didn't come back for him. I'm almost scared to call. <sigh>

I'm sure my day was as rotten as his yesterday worrying about him. :( Life without Eli in it......can't be imagined. Positive thoughts.

Jo Ann

[Squirt's Mom]

If he doesn't get to come home today, see if the vet will let you take a shirt or something that has your scent on it to put in his cage there. That sometimes gives them comfort and a sense of continuity. ;)

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
See if a short visit would be allowed, and most of all find out every detail of what they are doing with him. Make sure they know they must run things by you first, unless a dire emergency exists. Do not blindly trust anyone with your baby. I would do what Leslie suggested with an article of your clothing. It may calm him
and let him know you have not deserted him. Let us know what is happening please. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi! Back again. :) I called at 8 this morning.....and Eli is doing better today. He's holding down water, but still somewhat wobbly in the backend from being weak. But, still better...they're going to keep him during the day today to how he does and see if he can hold down food. I'm thinking of taking him some rotisserie chicken and rice. He likes that. He really hasn't been eating any dog food for some time now, since Cushing's, he's been a "treat" eater. Much to my dismay. I've been feeding him Blue Buffalo, but he really doesn't seem to like that...but, the Vet told me to wait awhile....changing his dog food back when we first started giving him the Vetoryl. So, I had been giving him chicken and rice..and healthier baked treats. I bake some and do buy some. ....He's not spoiled much. :) :rolleyes:

I was also thinking back when he first got sick.I remember him grabbing something weird outside and eating it. I'm wondering if that could be what made him sick?? I just don't know. One other time back iin August he got sick.......(before his Cushing's days as we know it) he got sick...right after grabbing something outside and eating it before I could snatch it away from him. Gosh....how I wish he could talk!! :(

I can take him a shirt as well..when I take the chicken and rice. :) I wish I had thought of that last night. I'd been recovering myself still from that 2 hour dentist appt.......and not really thinking up to par myself. :(

I'm thinking seriously about mussling him while in the brush doing his personal business (ah hum) ..so he can't grab anything foreign. Anything food......Eli WILL grab it!!

Anyway....we'll see today....if he can hold down food before I can bring him home. I'm afraid if I go see him, it will upset him too much if he can't come home. He doesn't eat if I'm not around. As it is I have to get someone he's REALLY familiar with to even take him out sometimes for me......or he won't even go. He's quite the Mama's boy! Sometimes, that's not so good!

[Renee]

If he's been eating an incomplete diet for a while, that could account for some of the weakness. In a perfectly healthy dog, an incomplete diet is okay for a few months... in a compromised dog, an incomplete diet should not go longer than a few weeks to maybe 6 weeks.

When you feed just chicken and rice, your guy is not getting any calcium (and a host of other nutrients), which can be very, very bad over a period of time.

I know it's the least of his worries at the moment, but I urge you to either give him a supplement to make up for what his diet is missing, or switch him to a complete and balanced food that he will eat.

[jxeno13]

If he's been eating an incomplete diet for a while, that could account for some of the weakness. In a perfectly healthy dog, an incomplete diet is okay for a few months... in a compromised dog, an incomplete diet should not go longer than a few weeks to maybe 6 weeks.

When you feed just chicken and rice, your guy is not getting any calcium (and a host of other nutrients), which can be very, very bad over a period of time.

I know it's the least of his worries at the moment, but I urge you to either give him a supplement to make up for what his diet is missing, or switch him to a complete and balanced food that he will eat.

I'd say it's been a couple of months now, since his Cushing's became a full blown thing....when he had his teeth cleaned and surgery for a tumor the end of February. Ten days later...his stitches were taken out and...(he was still eating his dog food...)...but about that time is when all of a sudden he gradually began went into the Cushing's symptoms. ...I'd have to look to see when he had the Cushing's test. I did take him in then to see if he had diabetes....it was all so gradual.....but at the same time....kind of fast....say a little over a month maybe. Let me check when he had the first Cushing's test.

[Renee]

Right around the time my pug started her cushings journey, I had to start cooking for her, so I understand where you are coming from.

Even if you mixed regular food with the chicken and rice, he will be getting a more complete diet. There are a number of great dog foods to choose from (and, of course, some very bad ones!), so I am sure you will be able to find something he will tolerate. :)

[jxeno13]

His first ACTH was on 3/21/14/- But that test got destroyed in transit to the lab.

His second ACTH test was on the following Friday morning - 3/28/14 (that was positive for Cushing's as the Vet had already suspected)....after that was when he quit eating his dog food.

He started the Vetroyl 60 mg on 4/8/14 ....after 10 pills..he was actually doing great. ........He had perked right up...back to drinking his regular amount of water.back to sleeping with me on his back again..his coat looked great. He was pretty much back to his old self.

The Vet and I had planned to give him the next ACTH test on Wed., (yesterday) because I had a dentist appt on Tuesday. But....then Eli got sick on Friday evening......and I took him to the Vet on Saturday.

[jxeno13]

Right around the time my pug started her cushings journey, I had to start cooking for her, so I understand where you are coming from.

Even if you mixed regular food with the chicken and rice, he will be getting a more complete diet. There are a number of great dog foods to choose from (and, of course, some very bad ones!), so I am sure you will be able to find something he will tolerate. :)

I was going to ask the Vet about a supplemental vitamin of some sort...but he said to wait awhile to change his food just yet...because Eli was just starting the Vetoryl. I did write to a couple of dog food places to try samples of other healthy food, before I ordered anything. Some aren't even sold in this small town and I have to order them online. :(

I have a link for dog food advisory..and pick good ones...or one's that Eli likes the treats....Home baked usually. Three Dog Bakery was one of them. They have great treats..Eli is even picky about what treats he eats. :rolleyes:

[goldengirl88]

Joann:
If this were my dog I would wait until I got the Vetoryl situation in hand before changing the diet. You are making to many variables by doing that, and if he gets sick then you need to figure out what it is. I would limit myself to managing the Cushing's on the correct dosage for now. Since he has not been eating good for a while, a little longer will be OK, but he does need a balanced diet with having Cushing's it is even more important. He needs his vitamins and minerals.
I forget did you say how much Eli weighed? He looks about as big as my Tipper and if so she is 18 lbs at her heaviest. I would be seriously concerned if his dosage is more than 1mg per pound to start. If it is more I think you are inviting trouble. Especially with all he has had going on. Vetoryl is a powerful drug and the safety of your dog must be paramount to anything else. Low is the safest way to start them. Their body can adjust to the drug that way. I hope Eli comes home soon and is on the road to recovery. Blessings
Patti

[Renee]

Food can be a touchy subject for many, as everyone has an opinion on what is better or worse, etc, etc. And, some dogs are quite sensitive to any change in diet, which is not a good thing to have happen when you have other things up in the air.

The point of my comments, and I hope you see where I am coming from, is that an incomplete diet for a prolonged period of time can be quite health detrimental, especially in dogs that are sick already. I am not suggesting you switch from Blue Buffalo.... I am suggesting you make whatever change you need to make to ensure that Eli is getting a complete diet. Chicken and rice is definitely an incomplete diet.

Anyway, I didn't want to scare you into thinking you need to do something RIGHT NOW, just wanted to bring up the point that if his body is lacking proper nutrition, it will be that much harder for it to fight off infections and stay strong.

[jxeno13]

Oh no! I didn't think that at all. The Vet already told me to wait on changing his diet from the Blue Buffalo. But, while he was sick ..I did make him the chicken and rice....otherwise...he wasn't eating anything. I hope I didn't make that sound as if he gets that as a regular diet....yet. Eli though.....does eat more treats than he eats dog food. The BB has become totally undesirable though to him in the last weeks. Although, he never really seemed to enthused about it to begin with.

Update though on Eli....I did take some chicken and rice to him at the Vet's to see if he would eat that, and also took a shirt of mine. He's doing OK....but won't eat. Which isn't unusual for Eli not to eat without me home or around. That's just Eli being Eli. I'll call again though at 4:00 to see if they have had any luck with the food. They did want to see if he could eat first before sending home, without throwing it up. But, he will be staying again tonight.....and will be home tomorrow.

[jxeno13]

I'm sorry I didn't answer your question about Eli's weight. He weighs 30 pounds. The Vet started him at 60MG Vetoryl..which Eli did pretty good at we thought. He was really doing good until this infection. ..Or we thought anyway.

I just called the Vet's office..my Vet was gone this afternoon..but they are keeping him overnight again.....but he's still doing OK on the fluids and keeping down the water, but he still won't eat, even with the chicken and rice. But, Eli has been known not to eat when I'm not around...or he's not at home. ....I believe my Vet is planning on sending him home in the morning, since they are concerned with his not eating now.

[goldengirl88]

Maybe you could go sit with him in a room there and take his food? Then he would eat because you are there, and would be able to come home. Maybe they would allow you to do this. Tipper is like that too she probably would not eat without me either. Hope he gets well and comes home soon. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Maybe you could go sit with him in a room there and take his food? Then he would eat because you are there, and would be able to come home. Maybe they would allow you to do this. Tipper is like that too she probably would not eat without me either. Hope he gets well and comes home soon. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti! Thanks! I would gladly do that..but knowing Eli.....his first thoughts are getting the heck out of that place. He does that when he gets a hair cut, or at the Vet's when I've offered him treats on the way out......all he wants to do is......make it to the nearest exit door! And, trust me, he knows where ALL of them are! I wish I could have seen him today too........but, I knew it would have just upset him more. :(

[jxeno13]

If I disappear all of a sudden. I just d/l a new update of for Win7 and all of a sudden my monitor keeps going black! :( That's all I need right now!! I don''t know what happened.or is happening!

[goldengirl88]

He is sooooo cute I love his Avatar. Praying it all goes well and he is home before you know it. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

have you rebooted since installing the update? That might help to stabilize it. Computers can be so finicky.

sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

have you rebooted since installing the update? That might help to stabilize it. Computers can be so finicky.

sharlene and molly muffin

Hi Patti...thank you! He is adorable, if I do say so myself. :D And, just as sweet. He is a mess. The neighbors love him as well. He's quite the guy around here.....and knows who all he can beg treats off of. ;) All your babies are adorable...maybe Cushings only picks the pretty babies! :(

Hi Sharlene! This computer is not old at all (3 yrs), which totally disturbs me! It got hit by lightning a few months ago and I had to replace the motherboard. Then out of nowhere....my hard drive took a dump...now I keep getting a message when I click the monitor back on "Auto Select Analog". :( Whatever that means. More research to do. I called my computer tech, of course he's not in...left him a message. Called my Brother....who's not home.....but will call me back when he gets home, supposedly. ..The monitor acts like it has narcolepsy. :( .Then, I looked in my email.....and ALL my files are missing. UGH! :mad: Oh! Yes, I rebooted and turned it off and back on again.....it's still going off and on. BTW.....twice now while I was typing this. :(

[goldengirl88]

His face looks a little like Tipper, her ears used to be like that, and when she got sick they stood straight up!! They will not go back down now. I bet Eli is a bundle of energy when he is well. Is he mischievous? Tipper really is, and I bet he is smart. Most of the terriers seem to be very intelligent. He will be glad to get home with his mom! Blessings
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

Hope Eli is feeling much better and can come home soon. If Eli is being picky with his food, here are a few other things you might try to entice his appetite: Yogurt mixed with honey, Potato boiled in meat broth and mashed with a *little* chicken fat added, Grated parmesan cheese as a topper on the regular food, Drizzle sardine juice (water packed sardines) on the food and/or Mash a sardine into the food, and/or warm his food in the microwave, baby food that contains no onions or onion powder...Hope this helps.

Also since prednisone does interfere with the ACTH stim test you might ask the vet about using dexamethasone instead as it does not cross react with the cortisol on the ACTH stim test.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

hmm, sounds like it searches for monitor, can't maintain connection and goes into power saving mode? (black screen) Analog being your connection to your computer. Should that be analog or should it be digital?

Hope your brother can help you solve the problem.

Oh Eli is very cute. I'm sure he has the neighbors wrapped around his little paw too. hahaha

Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

His face looks a little like Tipper, her ears used to be like that, and when she got sick they stood straight up!! They will not go back down now. I bet Eli is a bundle of energy when he is well. Is he mischievous? Tipper really is, and I bet he is smart. Most of the terriers seem to be very intelligent. He will be glad to get home with his mom! Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti! Yes, Eli is really intelligent. He loves to walk and run as well...and into everything, with a mind of his own. When the weather had gotten warm he was busy taking me for long walks, until he got sick. He was out at every little whim. I think he used his "Cushing out" (I need to go right now)....for his "back to normal out." He had gotten better....as far as the Cushing's "going out"....but, caught on quickly...if he sat and starred at me long enough now....I would jump up and take him out again and again. As a Cairn Terrier mix he has the floppy ears...my pure breed, Cairn (Betsy, also a rescue) had the straight up ears. He looks just like her otherwise. Such a sweet faces they all have. I've looked at all your babies. So sweet.

[jxeno13]

Hope Eli is feeling much better and can come home soon. If Eli is being picky with his food, here are a few other things you might try to entice his appetite: Yogurt mixed with honey, Potato boiled in meat broth and mashed with a *little* chicken fat added, Grated parmesan cheese as a topper on the regular food, Drizzle sardine juice (water packed sardines) on the food and/or Mash a sardine into the food, and/or warm his food in the microwave, baby food that contains no onions or onion powder...Hope this helps.

Also since prednisone does interfere with the ACTH stim test you might ask the vet about using dexamethasone instead as it does not cross react with the cortisol on the ACTH stim test.

Hugs, Lori

Hi Lori! Have you been in my kitchen?? :confused: We do eat (Eli a little) Greek yogurt occasionally honey. ...And, we do eat potatoes baked and sweet potato. I do buy him sweet potato fries and treats and bake them. I was also baking some pumpkin treats...you can use pumpkin or sweet potato. All occasionally...I actually have to be in the mood for all that. I do give him tuna juice.....water..until I started buying the bags....and always throw him down a little of that. I haven't tried sardines. I know dogs can't eat onions and such. He only eats dry food...so I can drizzle some on his dry food. For some reason he never got into wet food. I never thought of baby food. That's a good idea to try mixing with his dog food, if he'll go for it. I ALWAYS keep Parmesan cheese. We eat that by the pound here. I don't let him have any spicy stuff either.

The Predisone has already been given....so we're stuck there. But, I'll keep that in mind, if there's a "next time". Hopefully, not.....but you never know. Hopefully, he'll be OK in the morning......and he'll get to come home.

[jxeno13]

hmm, sounds like it searches for monitor, can't maintain connection and goes into power saving mode? (black screen) Analog being your connection to your computer. Should that be analog or should it be digital?

Hope your brother can help you solve the problem.

Oh Eli is very cute. I'm sure he has the neighbors wrapped around his little paw too. hahaha

Sharlene and molly muffin

Hi Sharlene! I'm thinking the same thing. It does seem to be going into a power saving mode somehow. I went into the control panel and re-set the power settings...and turned off any power saver. I'll see how that works now. .....I never used them anyway....or liked them.

My Brother is pretty smart with that kind of stuff....I'll let him figure it out...if that doesn't work. My nephew also built his own computer...so maybe he knows what that means. He does have all the neighbors wrapped around his little paws for sure. I think there's only one who isn't a dog person.....but I have to say......she isn't much of a people person either! :eek:

Well, I'm off to bed. Good night all......and thank you for all the kind words, prayers, links........advice, everything! Eli thanks you as well! I'll let you know how he is tomorrow.

G'night and sleep well!
Jo Ann

[jxeno13]

Patti? I think you posted this on another thread, but I'm sure anyone can answer it for me. This is just part of the sentence when giving Vetoryl it should be given with .."some food and tiny amount of fat. Vetoryl is fat soluble." I did read that somewhere about the fat. What kind of fat?? Would like an egg equal for food? It's hard to get Eli to eat his dog food...but, he'll go for an egg...but what do you use for the fat?

OK back to laying down. So, far my computer is not dead yet......turning off the sleep didn't help toooo awful much. Now, when I click off the screen saver...the monitor black out. It's not looking good! :(

Thanks, Jo Ann

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Jo Ann,

You can use something like peanut butter, cream cheese, etc. if extra fats are needed with the pill. It doesn't take much, just enough to coat the pill. Cush pups are prone to pancreas flares so we want to keep the fat content low so just add a little bit the meal he takes his med with.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn :
Yes just like Leslie said a tiny amount is all needed as you don't want pancreatitis. Say if you give him some chicken with his meal that is enough as there is fat in the chicken. I give Tipper white meat chicken breast and that is enough fat. If you look at Eli's blood work you will see triglycerides. See how high his are. Tipper's were outrageous, so I had to start giving her fish oil. The reason for not giving a lot of fat is the Cush dogs have a lot of fat imoblized in their body because of the disease, so it can cause problems if not controlled some how. After using the fish oil there was no improvement for a while, then all of a sudden hers dropped almost in half and I was glad. I am hoping by the time you read this Eli is home and feeling better. Blessings
Patti

[Renee]

Please do not forget - vetoryl must be given with a full meal. The fat needed to absorb applies more to lysodren than vetoryl. It is important to give the vetoryl with a full meal.

[mcdavis]

Hi Patti...thank you! He is adorable, if I do say so myself. :D And, just as sweet. He is a mess. The neighbors love him as well. He's quite the guy around here.....and knows who all he can beg treats off of. ;) All your babies are adorable...maybe Cushings only picks the pretty babies! :(


He's adorable and reminds me of Hamish (the cairn in my avatar) who we said Goodbye to 16 months ago. I now have Henry (just over a year old cairn) and he too has the cairn ability to wrap everyone around his paw!!
Hoping for good news this morning - everything crossed for Eli.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
Hoping you hear the pitter patter of four little feet today!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Trilostane is a fat-soluble drug and therefore does need some fat to be absorbed properly.

Hugs, Lori

[Renee]

Trilostane is a fat-soluble drug and therefore does need some fat to be absorbed properly.

Hugs, Lori

Lori - when I contacted Dechra about this specifically, they said to administer with a full meal, nothing about fat being needed? Although, I wonder if the fat in the full meal is enough?

[labblab]

I believe the fat contained in a normal meal is sufficient for trilostane. Where it gets to be a rub, I think, is for folks who dose twice daily but wouldn't normally be giving a second meal. Then the question is, how much food/fat is enough for adequate absorption? I have never personally clarified this with Dechra because when I was dosing my boy it was a moot point -- all my dogs are fed two equal meals daily. Perhaps one of us can ask Dechra to clarify how much is necessary for that second meal in the event that a dog is dosed twice daily.

Marianne

[Renee]

Marianne, when I emailed them, they replied back that the dosing needed to occur with a full meal. Nothing was noted about fat needed for absorption. I feed twice a day too. I know a lot of dogs feed once daily, but I just cannot imagine them going that long without eating! My pugs would waste away, heehee!

Here is the exact reply copied from my email:

Renee,

Thank you for contacting Dechra Veterinary Technical Services with your question about Vetoryl.

When administering Vetoryl we do recommend to give a full meal. Food does help absorption.

If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate contacting us.

Kind regards,

Dosha Atwell, RVT
Technical Services

Dechra Veterinary Products
7015 College Blvd. Suite 525
Overland Park, KS 66211

[labblab]

Renee, I think most of us are picking up the issue about fat from an endocrinology blog authored by Dr. Mark Peterson:


Remember that the ACTH stimulation test is the most useful test for monitoring dogs being treated with trilostane (Vetoryl) or mitotane (Lysodren)...Both medications are fat-soluble drugs and must be given at time of meals, or the drugs will not be well absorbed...

...Fasting these dogs on the morning in which the ACTH stimulation test is scheduled should be avoided since it invalidates the test results.

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/03/whats-best-protocol-for-acth.html

It may be the case that the Dechra tech did not elaborate on the issue of fat under the assumption that a dog receiving a full meal would automatically be receiving at least a bit of fat (because it probably does not take much fat to be sufficient).

Marianne

[Renee]

Good point Marianne - I think my only concern with fat vs no fat would be confusing anyone into thinking that if they serve the pill in something fatty (like PB or creamcheese), then that would be sufficient, rather than needing to be given with a full meal. See what I am getting at?

Always more to learn!

[labblab]

Yep, that is a good point, Renee. And the reverse issue could be a concern, too, as you've noted. If a person is feeding essentially a fat-free diet, will the drug be metabolized properly even in the face of a meal? My Peg has just been getting home-made chicken and rice for the past couple of weeks (Peg is having GI issues). I am really getting antsy about adding in at least a little bit of commercial food or fat (meds wrapped in a little bit of cheese, for instance) because I know that certain nutrients are not processed adequately, either, in a total absence of fat.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

What I do with Tipper is feed her her meal and then I give her Coconut Oil about a fourth of a teaspoon and and her Vetoryl. A nutritionist told me the coconut oil is good for them, but since it is a fat has to be a small amount, but sufficient for the Vetoryl to be absorbed fully. I have never had any problems following his recommendation, and since Tipper likes the coconut oil she thinks its a treat!

[molly muffin]

Hoping to hear some good news that Eli is home and eating.

Hope you got your computer issues worked out.

Let us know, we worry about you and Eli.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Come on Eli where are you little boy???

[jxeno13]

I know what's wrong with my computer now....but, when my computer tech and I tried to fix it...it didn't work. He's gone for the day now......and as things usually run for me when calamity hits...it's the weekend! :mad: The Microsoft update that I d/ had a "driver" which screwed up my monitor.....and it's not receiving the signal from the computer. In other words..the monitor thinks it's new...thus the message "auto select (analog) ..it actually should think it's digital anyway. <sigh> Hopefully, it makes it thru the weekend.

[goldengirl88]

Where is Eli? Home?

[jxeno13]

Update on Eli - I brought him home this morning. He's alive, but not well. He's drinking water....and peeing, not being able to hold it until we get to the elevator, like in Cushing's, but I do have his Belly Bands...no problem there. I did realize that he would be back into his "Cushing's mode" when I got him because of the Predisone he has been getting. The MAJOR problem is Eli is NOT eating. I've tried everything...chicken and rice, scrambled eggs...he smells it....but then starts licking his lips like he's going to throw up again. I just took him out at 5:00 again ..and before we could make it back up in the elevator.....he threw up in the elevator. Clear liquid and white foam. :(

The Vet said to call him in the morning and let him know how he's doing and if he ate.....(he thought maybe he would eat if he was home) ....(it's not happening so far....) and that he would refer us to a specialist. They've X-rayed Eli......checked him all over. Eli was getting more and more depressed there ( as most of their dogs do).....and thought by his being home maybe he would perk up some. It just hasn't happened. He wags his tail when I talk to him and pet him....but all he does is lay....and sleep for the most part. <sigh>

I do have copies of is blood tests for his ACTH STIM and the blood work we did the other day. I'll scan them into my computer.....and post them if I can. Between Eli and this monitor......and my own health right now....I feel I'm barely hanging in today. :(

[jxeno13]

BRB...the sun is my face and I can't see anything, and the monitor keeps going black. I'll be right back as soon as I can. :(

[jxeno13]

Ugh.I'm trying to scan this thing..it went to a .pdf file....and I can't copy and paste that. There must be an easier way?

[molly muffin]

There is a conversion website. They don't retain the info, you upload the pdf file and in moments they give you back a jpeg which you can upload.
I used http://compress.smallpdf.com/

You can also just type in the abnormal results. like ALP 500ug (range 50 - 125ug) as an example

Have they retested Eli's blood to see if the antibiotics are working to get rid of the infection?
What about some nutrical? At this point, anything that will get some nutrition into him would be helpful if he can keep it down. He hasn't eaten since Sunday???
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Joann:
Do you have a large syringe? If so you can suck up meat baby food with it and feed him. He hasn't eaten so he may need to get some food in him to begin eating on his own. I had done this with my animals when sick and not eating. Also the vets sell a canned food for sick animals, the name is escaping me right now, but it can be sucked into a syringe. The drug store can even give you a syringe large enough as I have gotten them there when I had to give Tipper water while on a trip. Big hugs to you both.
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Joann,

It sure can get frustrating and worrisome when our furbabies start refusing to eat. Sharlene mentioned Nutri-Cal which is a good option and here are more:

Rebound
Rebound OES chicken flavored by Virbac Animal Health is a highly palatable, ready-to-use oral electrolyte and fluid replacer that is designed to be given free-choice and rapidly absorbed. Rebound OES was formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists to help fight dehydration associated with gastrointestinal distress, surgical procedures, and physical exertion.
http://www.entirelypets.com/reboundoes.html

DogSure
DogSure™ is a completely balanced liquid nutritional diet that has what dogs need to make the most of their golden years. (for dogs 3+ years in age). http://www.petag.com/product/dog-nutrition-supplements/petag-dogsure/

Slippery Elm Bark
Slippery Elm contains many nutrients (carbohydrates, protein, fat, ascorbic acid, beta-carotene, calcium, and several trace minerals) that can be beneficial for recuperating pets, and it may stay down when other foods are not tolerated. Slippery Elm (http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/)

And finally, here's a recipe from Monica Segal's canine cookbook:
broth for an inappetent dog

1 chicken breast, skinless, boneless.
4 cups water.
1/2 teaspoon table salt.
1/2 teaspoon No-Salt (found in grocery store where the regular salt is).

Bring water to a boil. Add chicken breast. Simmer until meat is cooked, remove meat. Add salt and No-Salt. Bring water to a boil again. Cool broth and place in the refrigerator overnight. Skim all visible fat. Warm this broth to room temperature before offering it to the dog. Pour unused broth in containers in the freezer for future use.



Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

I'll try the conversion site here in a minute. I'll also try the other things you all mentioned for food. The Vet is also open until noon tomorrow where I can call. My pharmacy...should have a large...syringe or my neighbor might.....I'll get some baby food a try that too. I also tryed giving him some salmon......that was also a no-go. It's like he wants it.but takes a smell...starts licking his lips..and has to move away from the smell. :(

[flynnandian]

maybe he needs some anti nausea medication?

[jxeno13]

Sorry, I'll brb....A neighbor came up...and she gave Eli the worst thing EVER..and he ATE a little bit of it....AND hasn't thrown it up YET! What you ask? An ALL beef hotdog! He ate half of it!! ....Then Eli had to go out and peed in the hall..and the band he had on leaked in the hall and elevator. ...Now to rush out and sop that up....brb.

[jxeno13]

maybe he needs some anti nausea medication?

I have some of that also that I was about to give him. He loves this neighbor and actually came to life a bit when he saw her! YAY! That's his milestone for today! Someone needs to make a healthy hot dog for dogs!! :D

[Harley PoMMom]

Right now I would feed him whatever he is willing to eat, even if it was a burger from McDonalds!!! :D

[jxeno13]

Could someone please explain how to upload an image?

[jxeno13]

Right now I would feed him whatever he is willing to eat, even if it was a burger from McDonalds!!! :D

I'm totally in agreement!! :D

[Iraklis]

I read back about 4-5 pages...but can't understand something...
If Eli won't eat...why continue giving Vetoryl?

I'm sorry if i missed something!!

[jxeno13]

There is a conversion website. They don't retain the info, you upload the pdf file and in moments they give you back a jpeg which you can upload.
I used http://compress.smallpdf.com/

You can also just type in the abnormal results. like ALP 500ug (range 50 - 125ug) as an example

Have they retested Eli's blood to see if the antibiotics are working to get rid of the infection?
What about some nutrical? At this point, anything that will get some nutrition into him would be helpful if he can keep it down. He hasn't eaten since Sunday???
Sharlene and molly muffin

Sharlene..I converted it myself on my computer to a .jpg ...can't figure out how to upload it to the thread. :(

No, they didn't do another blood test that I know of. The test results that I have are from last Wednesday when he went in. They did though do an x-ray....actually of what I don't know. When the Vet called me I had just woken up and missed asking that question. :( He seemed perplexed though for the most part. jmo Although, I did hear he'd refer us to a specialist if he didn't start eating or get better. I'm thinking in my mind ..Eli is still critical...needs help, and really needs to get to a specialist. Like some/many my funds are also limited, car might not reach that far (it can't be around here close)....and I'm praying for a good result at the same time. That's a lot to ask for, I know. Some are already telling me to be prepared in case he doesn't make it and I should think about putting him down....I'm in the mode..he will make it...we just need a little more time. I'm not a quitter and neither is Eli!! Not yet!! <sigh>

[jxeno13]

I read back about 4-5 pages...but can't understand something...
If Eli won't eat...why continue giving Vetoryl?

I'm sorry if i missed something!!

Yassou Iraklia!!

First, I'd like to say how sorry I was to read about your journey with your precious Angel Husko. I'm still reading your thread. I know how hard you tried to save him. My heart goes out to you. I know how hard it is to lose our furbabies when they are like our own children. It's heartwrenching, especially when they can't express verbally what they are feeling. I saw your pictures of him and Lemmy and he was beautiful! You are/were quite the Dad! You did do everything that you humanly, possibly could. Husko knew that.

BTW, my Father was and my sister in law from Zakynthos, Greece. I am half Greek. However, sadly, I cannot speak, read or write Greek. I guess I was too busy out chasing boys, instead of paying attention to things to learn of substance. Haha! When it snowed in Athens, I think it was 2011 (?) My sister-in-law was there visiting her sick brother in the hospital there. ..She has a sister there as well still. Oh....by the way...growing up as an American kid with a Greek Dad....I did learn all the good swear words....and a few nice phrases. So, it wasn't a total loss. :D

To answer your question. Right now Eli isn't taking any Vetoryl. Although, the Vet didn't tell me to stop it when he first got sick last Friday. I should have read that also in the brochure on the meds...but the sorry excuse for that is I can't see the small print....where it tells you that. I failed to do my research. :mad:

Eli was taking it when he got sick Friday.....and took it another three days before the Vetoryl was stopped. He's been sick ever since anyway with what they said is an infection and had him in the doggy hospital for 2 days......running an IV for fluids, predisone, and anti-nausea medicine. He couldn't eat or drink without throwing it up. I brought him home today...and he's drinking water, but still not eating. He hasn't eaten since last Sunday morning.

[jxeno13]

I'm going to take Eli out again. I'll be right back. Soon it'll be bedtime for us. But, I'll try to post some of his numbers when I get back.

We're back and made it without throwing anything up....or peeing on anything! YAY! He didn't make it to the door though, but did wet his pads he had on. That's a good thing!

The bad part..he's AWFULLY wobbly. And crashing around, but I kept telling him he was doing good....and tried walking really, really slow. He does try to walk faster though, to try and get outside to pee. With all his problems.....he's still never peed in the house. Which is amazing........although, he has wet the bed several during the night....while he's asleep. But, that's OK.

[My sweet Ginger]

I'm so happy Eli ate half of a hotdog. Like Lori said I'd give him whatever he is able to eat for now. My IMS keeps telling me give Ginger whatever she wants to eat because something is always better than nothing and I totally agree. Ginger did that for a long time. She looked like she wanted to eat, standing at the bowl but just couldn't and then had to walk away especially if kibble was mixed in there.
I couldn't use kibble for a long time. It was worse in the morning and still is.
Try moist, warm ground beef (either boiled or grilled and chopped or crushed) with a little bit of rice. I hope he starts eating again and get his energy back. I'm so sorry both of you are going through such a tough time right now. Take care of yourself and try to Hang in there for Eli. Hugs, Song.

[molly muffin]

At the top of the forum you'll see on the left hand side, User CP, click that.
On the left hand side panel you'll see Pictures & Albums, click that. This will take you to your album page and you'll see a link saying "add album" click that. Title your album, make it public so we can all see it, and click submit. You will then be able to upload jpegs to your album by browsing on your computer. 3 jpegs can be uploaded at one time.

Let me know if you have any difficulties.

Yay for beef hot dogs. I'd give him anything he wants and if he'll take it from the neighbor, then bring that neighbor in and let them feed him. He is very weak right now and needs food, but not too much at one time. I'd try the hot dog again and see if he'll eat any more of it. Anything really that he is interested in.

See ya in the morning
Hang in there. You and Eli are NOT down for the count yet!!
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

I'm so happy Eli ate half of a hotdog. Like Lori said I'd give him whatever he is able to eat for now. My IMS keeps telling me give Ginger whatever she wants to eat because something is always better than nothing and I totally agree. Ginger did that for a long time. She looked like she wanted to eat, standing at the bowl but just couldn't and then had to walk away especially if kibble was mixed in there.
I couldn't use kibble for a long time. It was worse in the morning and still is.
Try moist, warm ground beef (either boiled or grilled and chopped or crushed) with a little bit of rice. I hope he starts eating again and get his energy back. I'm so sorry both of you are going through such a tough time right now. Take care of yourself and try to Hang in there for Eli. Hugs, Song.

I have the ground beef out of the freezer now. He hasn't eaten anymore than the little bit of hotdog, but he hasn't thrown it up yet either. I've tried chicken and rice, salmon, and a scrambled egg, so far......nothing but the hotdog seemed to brighten his day. Tomorrow morning I'll try the ground beef and rice. I start back giving him anti-biotics tomorrow morning, some predisone (I should have given him some tonight, but didn't.) Something told me not to bother forcing pills down him today. The antibiotic they had already given him at the Vet's. ....Like you and Lori said said.....I'm going to try anything I can think if give him to eat.

I had planned to make myself some Greek soup (Avgolemono) and try some of that to see if he'd eat some. I usually give him a bite or two anyway. He loves it! It's actually chicken broth, rice, lemon and eggs. Pretty great stuff. Maybe.... I'm beyond thinking of things.

[jxeno13]

At the top of the forum you'll see on the left hand side, User CP, click that.
On the left hand side panel you'll see Pictures & Albums, click that. This will take you to your album page and you'll see a link saying "add album" click that. Title your album, make it public so we can all see it, and click submit. You will then be able to upload jpegs to your album by browsing on your computer. 3 jpegs can be uploaded at one time.

Let me know if you have any difficulties.

Yay for beef hot dogs. I'd give him anything he wants and if he'll take it from the neighbor, then bring that neighbor in and let them feed him. He is very weak right now and needs food, but not too much at one time. I'd try the hot dog again and see if he'll eat any more of it. Anything really that he is interested in.

See ya in the morning
Hang in there. You and Eli are NOT down for the count yet!!
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

Not down for the count here yet!! Not me anyway or Eli! I'm going to upload that now. I know sometimes I'm not the brightest bulb in the drawer..but none of my neighbors even have a computer.......(well 2 do) no one researches....and one actually things Cushing's is a communicable disease!! Oh! And, that it can be passed on to humans no less! LOL :(

[My sweet Ginger]

I hope Eli sees an IMS ASAP before he gets any worse. He really sounds like he is in trouble.
Although the vets suspect an infection, I just can't help myself to think that his cortisol might be still too low and he's suffering from it.
Can you run an ACTH test just to see if his adrenal glands are stimulating at least? I know the test results will not be accurate because he's on prednisone but you will be able to find out whether his adrenals are producing cortisol or not. That was what we had to do with Ginger which showed they are finally after 5months. Btw, her electrolytes were good through out her ordeal.

[jxeno13]

I hope Eli sees an IMS ASAP before he gets any worse. He really sounds like he is in trouble.
Although the vets suspect an infection, I just can't help myself to think that his cortisol might be still too low and he's suffering from it.
Can you run an ACTH test just to see if his adrenal glands are stimulating at least? I know the test results will not be accurate because he's on prednisone but you will be able to find out whether his adrenals are producing cortisol or not. That was what we had to do with Ginger which showed they are finally after 5months. Btw, her electrolytes were good through out her ordeal.

I asked the Vet about running another ACTH, but he said no because the numbers would be so out of wack because of the medications he was taking. Do you think I sould still give him another Predisone then maybe? He's been getting 20mg of Predisone 2X a day.

I just posted his numbers from is blood tests in his album. Hummm...can I post those links here?

[jxeno13]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=877&pictureid=6669


Eli's Cushing's test done on March 6. 2014 ......close as I could get it. :)

[jxeno13]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=877&pictureid=6671


http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=877&pictureid=6670


Eli's Blood test from April 23, 2014

[Trish]

Hi

I can see the first one you have posted, that is not a cushings test though. It show pretty good results.

Glucose test for diabetes = normal
BUN and creatinine for kidneys = normal
ALT, AST, ALKP all liver tests = normal or just above normal range.

So nothing there sticks out as too much of a worry

The latest one you posted has not shown up.

Trish

[molly muffin]

Hmmm glucose is high on the April test but was normal on the march test.
Sharlene.

[jxeno13]

Well, crap! I thought she gave me the ACTH test too! Perhaps, or rather obviously she didn't. :( I'll have to go back and get the Cushing's one. I guess March 6th was when I took him and had a test run for Diabetes, because of his excessive drinking and peeing. That was when I thought perhaps he had diabetes and rushed him to the Vet the first time. That's also when the Vet first suspected Cushing's disease.......I never heard of Cushing's before that day. :(

The only other time Eli had been sick was back in Aug for another virus or infection...but anti-biotics cleared it right up. Then in Feb. I took him to have his teeth cleaned and small benign tumor removed from his neck. Ten days later, I had his stitches taken out......and BAM....he was drinking gallons and peeing rivers within a week or two.

[jxeno13]

There should be 3 there. Right? Can you see all 3 that I posted?

[jxeno13]

March 6th was for the NSAID panel when I had him checked for diabetes.

March 21, was his first ACTH...then it was run again a week later...because the first one was damaged in transit to the lab.

<sigh> I'll have to go back and get the Cushing's ACTH Stim. :(

[jxeno13]

Well, I have to say good night.....and thank you all for everything...including the hope. I'm worn out. Tomorrow is another day......and hopefully will be better than today. <sigh>

Hugs and prayers to you all from Eli and me!! :)

[Trish]

Hi, I can see them when I go into your album. I wish they had some idea where the infection is coming from, I presume they did a urine and CXR to rule out the easiest ones? Glucose is not too high, it can be due to stress also. Have a good sleep and hope Eli is doing better with his eating tomorrow.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I never though hearing that a dog ate a hot dog would make me happy, but I was thrilled to hear Eli did eat something. That neighbor must be the key to all this! Maybe she can keep coming over and help get him to eat. I think once he gets started with food again he will start on his own. It must be such a relief to have him home. I am hoping he will improve now with the wobbly walking. Do you think because he is so weak it is happening? Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

Sweetheart, please get Eli in to see an IMS asap - today if possible. I am still terrified this vet has missed something critical...I just cannot trust them in the least based on what they have done so far.

How is Eli this morning? I agree wholeheartedly - feed him anything he will eat right now.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[My sweet Ginger]

Well, looks like Ginger's joined Eli. She's been refusing to eat her breakfast. Last two mornings at least she ate although it took hours but no such luck this morning.:mad::o:(


4/22/14 by Jo Ann
...My thoughts.......maybe Eli had reached the needed "loading"...since he was doing so well......and the Vetoryl had turned toxic on him and that is what is making him sick. Eli hasn't eaten now since Sunday morning....and then it only a very small amount of chicken and rice. He's been vomiting regular since.......but drinking water. I did stop the anti-biotics myself to not put any more stress on him.........since I'm having a very hard time even getting him to take the liquid for his nausea. Any ideas......other than what my thoughts may be?? He's really weak now...and very wobbily. I'm watching him closely..and hope by tomorrow he'll be feeling somewhat better. I took him off the Vetoryl today.......the Vet said we'd wait to do another ACTH test.


I think you hit the nail in the head with your analogy as to why he got sick after 14 days on Vetoryl and I still think overdosing of Vetoryl could be the underlying source of his latest problems if there's a chance that he doesn't have Cushings.
It's a moot point now but I still wonder why the vet didn't run an ACTH stim test at that time before any prednisone was started.
Jo Ann, call the vet's office and have them email the ACTH results to you, you don't have to go there to pick it up and just type the numbers. There are only two numbers, pre & post. I really like to see those numbers as Eli's ALP was barely high for a cushy dog. Usually they are the in the thousands.

I hope Eli's feeling better this morning.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I too am frightened along with Leslie that there is something wrong that is being missed. I feel so bad for little Eli not eating and all. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Right now I'm waiting again for the Vet to call me back for the second time today. I'm having him to make an and arrangments, so I can make an appointment at a specialist in Louisville (the closest to me) two hours away. <sigh> It's not always...the greatest thing living in the boon docks of nowhere land. Where the money is coming from yet...I have no clue. He's calling there now.....setting it all up.....and getting all of Eli's records together. Weird in the beginning, I thought and asked if it could maybe some neurological, but he said he didn't think so.....(I said he acted like maybe he had a stroke or something) ...<sigh> I told him about his still wobbling and he said he didn't think that was because of his being weak, because his glucose levels being high....it could be neurological. :( He also agreed...hotdogs or anything would work as long as he's keeping them down......we're happy. I'll try to get an appointment as soon as possible...but that could be next week sometime. :(

[jxeno13]

Update on the specialist...the Vet called the http://www.metrovetlouisville.com/ but, they were closed today. :( ..he'll call them back on Monday and make the pre-arrangements. He seemed sad, and said he's worried that maybe he's missing something....and would feel better himself for me to get an assessment from them as well. When I read so much about brain tumors..and pituitary tumors......and surgery. There are NO options for us. :(

This specialist is also 2 hours away from where I live.

[jxeno13]

Sweetheart, please get Eli in to see an IMS asap - today if possible. I am still terrified this vet has missed something critical...I just cannot trust them in the least based on what they have done so far.

How is Eli this morning? I agree wholeheartedly - feed him anything he will eat right now.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Leslie, Hi, it will be next week before I can get Eli to the IMS. They were closed today, my Vet tried calling to set up a pre-registration. What happened to 24 hour Vet's?? My Vet will be on call this weekend and said to call if I needed him. I know he can't help much anymore than he has. But, he's all I have. BTW......this specialist is 2 hours away in Louisville, KY.

The old hotdog trick is working this morning as well. He's not throwing anything up anyway. He did throw up a little water this morning. I still have to give him some stomach med and have to wait another 2 hrs to give him an anti-biotic. ......

[jxeno13]

JoAnn:
I too am frightened along with Leslie that there is something wrong that is being missed. I feel so bad for little Eli not eating and all. Blessings
Patti

Patti, I'm sure myself...as is the Vet.....that maybe something is being missed. What? We just don't know at this time. When it comes to MRI and CT's ....I don't have that kind of money.

I could play the lottery today.

[Squirt's Mom]

Sometimes we can entice them to eat using baby foods, like Beechnut, or canned cat food, even dry cat food. Stinky things like sardines, cod, and cheeses can sometimes help as well. Praying our sweet boy starts improving very soon!

[My sweet Ginger]

I'm not sure if it was on your thread that I mentioned about care credit but have you checked it out'? It will come in handy. Just go on carecredit.com. You may be able to apply online. Very quick process. Zero interest for 6, 12 or even 18 months.
I hope Eli will be able to see the IMS on Monday.
Please, let us know how Eli is doing today.

[jxeno13]

I just got back from taking Eli out to pee. It actually turned out to be a walk. He didn't wobble, but just a bit. Actually, he did very well.....and pooped too! YAY! I didn't expect that. Gosh, the little things we get excited over with our babies. ....He even stopped by the gazebo to visit another furbaby and see a couple of residents. He used to like sitting in the swing with me, and swing awhile.......and watch the people and traffic go by. We didn't stay long...but when we got back home, I was out of breath, but Eli was ready for another half of hotdog! He got a little suspicious of me though.......cutting a pill...and putting it "somewhere"...so I had to eat a little hotdog too....to prove I hadn't "poisoned" it with something. Haha! ...Fooled him! :D:D

[Squirt's Mom]

YAY! Way to go, Eli! :cool::cool::cool:

[jxeno13]

Can someone give me a ballpark figure what a specialist costs in the city? Say in the midwest in KY...or near there?

[jxeno13]

YAY! Way to go, Eli! :cool::cool::cool:

YAY! I know! :D

[Junior's Mom]

I'm so glad to hear he has eaten some. Have you given him prednisone since he came home? It can increase appetite.
It sure sounds like his cortisol is too low, and without an acth, your vet has no idea what his levels are. The pred won't hurt, and you will get an idea if it's cortisol levels, if it helps. If your pills are 20mg, you could cut them, and give him just 1/4.

[jxeno13]

"We understand that the expense of your pet’s medical care may have a significant impact on your overall budget. You will receive a cost estimate for services from a doctor before you consent to having services performed. A deposit equaling half of the upper of end of the estimate will be required prior to patient admission. If unexpected circumstances arise that result in the balance exceeding the estimate, you will be informed of this in a timely fashion. When your pet is discharged, the remaining balance will be due. We accept cash, Visa, MasterCard, and Discover, but do not accept checks or American Express."

"The Internal Medicine Service assists primary care veterinarians to treat pets afflicted with challenging non-surgical, medical diseases. This service was established in 1998 when Dr. Catherine Daley joined Metropolitan Veterinary Specialists. Since that time Dr. Scott Campbell and Dr. Forrest Cummings have also joined the Internal Medicine Service.
A wide range of advanced diagnostic and treatment options are available, including echocardiography with color-flow and pulsed-wave Doppler, abdominal ultrasound, rhinoscopy, endoscopy, bronchoscopy, computed tomography (CT or CAT scan), in-house laboratory testing, chemotherapy and immunotherapy for cancer, and many other services.
Appointments are available with the Internal Medicine Service on a referral basis,
Monday through Friday."

http://www.metrovetlouisville.com/specialty_services/internal_medicine/index.html

[jxeno13]

I'm so glad to hear he has eaten some. Have you given him prednisone since he came home? It can increase appetite.
It sure sounds like his cortisol is too low, and without an acth, your vet has no idea what his levels are. The pred won't hurt, and you will get an idea if it's cortisol levels, if it helps. If your pills are 20mg, you could cut them, and give him just 1/4.

I didn't give him the dose of Predisone last night, but did continue it today and will again tonight. They had been giving him the 20 MG. He already seems back in his Cushing's "mode" although, he's not quite drinking as much water as he did before. I am also giving him bottled water instead of this tap water. He is back to the peeing again though..and can't hold it......so, I'm back to using his Belly Bands. So far this morning he's eaten a whole hotdog, between the 2 halfs.

[goldengirl88]

Eat those hot dogs up Eli Go get em!!!!!

[Iraklis]

Hello!!
Since you know some words you'll get that the original vets of Husko are malakes...
It snowed in early 2012!
Never been to Zakynthos...it probably has the best beach ever i know...

Couple of questions...
If an infection is suspected ,why give prednisone since it suppresses the immune system?
20mg a day is a pretty high dose...do the vets suspect a pituitary/adrenal cancerous tumor?

[Junior's Mom]

Has the specific gravity of Eli's urine been tested?
Has he been tested for a uti? Quite often, cushings dogs need a urine culture and specificity test done.
They are prone to uti's which will cause excessive peeing and accidents. This should be ruled out as well.

[molly muffin]

I dont' know what a specialist in Louisville cost. I know mine in canada was $170. for the consult, tests are extra, which is why you want to have your vet send up his complete records.
If he is eating that is great and if it was a case of his cortisol going too low then the pred along with the antibiotics for any infection, Might clear things up. If that is the case and he is back to normal, then you might not need the specialist. You'll have to keep evaluating each day how you think he is doing. It is a plus that your vet hasn't charged you for any of this so far. I wish they'd all be so caring and I'm glad your vet is worried too.
It seems like he has more energy now that he is eating, prob due to the pred and maybe just feeling better.
The care credit can definitely help out if you haven't looked into it, do so.
Now how is that computer of yours doing?
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Hello!!
Since you know some words you'll get that the original vets of Husko are malakes...
It snowed in early 2012!
Never been to Zakynthos...it probably has the best beach ever i know...

Couple of questions...
If an infection is suspected ,why give prednisone since it suppresses the immune system?
20mg a day is a pretty high dose...do the vets suspect a pituitary/adrenal cancerous tumor?

Hi Iraklis!

Yes, I get it! ;) She was there over Christmas when her brother was sick.......I know it was really cold she said. She was home I thought by New Years, but not sure anymore. It was about that year though. I've never been to Zakynthos or Athens, but my family has, of course, and say it is so beautiful! The beaches yes, in Zakynthos from the pictures I've seen are awesome!

Actually, I asked for the Vet about the Predisone after reading on here....thinking I needed to bring back up his Cortisol level (perhaps too low), in case it had dropped from too much Vetroyl. Because that was what it sounded like to him as well. He didn't say he suspected a tumor or anything.......until today, he did insinuate maybe Eli could be having a neurological something going on, because of his wobbling.

The second day he was sick...he almost acted as if he had a stroke, although, I didn't feel he did really. His head was kind of jerky..his jaw quivering, he was very wobbly...but those symptoms today......din't seem to be there. He was wobbly this morning....but then this afternoon, Eli seemed somewhat more stable in his walk.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I am glad to hear Eli is progressing some. He still sounds in a fragile state. Is he still eating? How about the drinking ? Has he pooped at all? I sure hope he can get to being himself, he is just so precious. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

We had planned on doing his ACTH that next Wednesday.....because I had a doctor's appt. on Tuesday. Friday had been Eli's 10th day on Vetoryl 60mg...and had been doing great! Saturday it was over and he was sick...but he wasn't taken off the Vetoryl until that Tuesday...(My reg Vet was gone on Monday). ....The next Tuesday would have been 14 days on the Cushing's med).

I actually take Predisone off and on..so I didn't question the amount. I've had another dog on predisone for allergies, and it never seemed to bother him. :( So, I guess I didn't question him on it.

[jxeno13]

JoAnn:
I am glad to hear Eli is progressing some. He still sounds in a fragile state. Is he still eating? How about the drinking ? Has he pooped at all? I sure hope he can get to being himself, he is just so precious. Blessings
Patti

Hi Patti! Yes, he's still in a very fragile state. I'd say critical myself. But, I will say he ate another hotdog this afternoon, he's drinking bottled water, and yes, he even took me for a walk and pooped...with very little wobbling! Totally surprised me!! He's the sweetest thing ever! I do so hope he pulls out of this! He just has to!

[Iraklis]

I would not start Vetoryl again if an enlarging tumor is suspected.

Prednisone should be given with a schedule...it could mess things up if given irregularly. Vet should sugget a regime...(just an ex.1 morning-1night for 7 days ,half morning half night for 7 days ,half morning for 7 days).

[My sweet Ginger]

Our consultation was $155 and then $90 there after for each recheck.
$37 for a BP check, $295 for an ACTH stim test with our IMS and we live in CT.
On the other hand I paid a total of under $300 at our GP vet's for an ACTH & UPCR & urinalysis. Get a consult with an IMS and get all necessary testings done with your regular vet, a lot cheaper that way.
We are well into $4000 mark right now and most of that was for diagnostic testings.
I explained my situation to our IMS and she was totally cool about it.
You have to try to be be money strategic in order to how best treat your pup especially if you don't have insurance like me.:o

[Harley PoMMom]

I am so glad to hear that Eli is eating ~ so relieved as you are too! That not eating is so worrisome. Please do keep us updated and sending positive, healing, and appetite stimulation energy your way. ;)

Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

I dont' know what a specialist in Louisville cost. I know mine in canada was $170. for the consult, tests are extra, which is why you want to have your vet send up his complete records.
If he is eating that is great and if it was a case of his cortisol going too low then the pred along with the antibiotics for any infection, Might clear things up. If that is the case and he is back to normal, then you might not need the specialist. You'll have to keep evaluating each day how you think he is doing. It is a plus that your vet hasn't charged you for any of this so far. I wish they'd all be so caring and I'm glad your vet is worried too.
It seems like he has more energy now that he is eating, prob due to the pred and maybe just feeling better.
The care credit can definitely help out if you haven't looked into it, do so.
Now how is that computer of yours doing?
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

Hi Sharlene, Care Credit? .I'll have to check into that! I figured about that here too as well. ....And, that's just off the top of my head. $200-$300...plus. ....I only live on a small SS check, I'm retired and live alone. ....I talked to a girlfriend in Chicago and when I told her about Eli's symptoms.......she said one of dogs acted like that when he had a small stroke. Could the Vetoryl perhaps caused Eli to have a small stroke? I told the Vet Eli acted like maybe he could have had a stroke,,(but then I threw in.."I doubt he did").....I can hardly wait to get him to the Vet in Louisville to have him reassessed! ..I'll be picking up a copy of Eli's record's on Monday......and his Vet is on call this weekend who told to call if I needed him at all. ....I'm an impatient Greek, I guess....that's is a trait we all have. <sigh> I will also have to borrow my granddaughter's car. Mine won't make it. Problems, problems. But, as my Mother always said..."where there's a will, there's a way"!! :D

[jxeno13]

Our consultation was $155 and then $90 there after for each recheck.
$37 for a BP check, $295 for an ACTH stim test with our IMS and we live in CT.
On the other hand I paid a total of under $300 at our GP vet's for an ACTH & UPCR & urinalysis. Get a consult with an IMS and get all necessary testings done with your regular vet, a lot cheaper that way.
We are well into $4000 mark right now and most of that was for diagnostic testings.
I explained my situation to our IMS and she was totally cool about it.
You have to try to be be money strategic in order to how best treat your pup especially if you don't have insurance like me.:o

The first part wasn't bad at all....but the $295 for the ACTH Stim?? :eek: Wow! I paid $72 dollars here. The only thing good about living in the boonies. They sent it to one of the best labs in the state....at Murray University. Since Feb., I've paid close to $800. so far..but I didn't get the hospital bill yet....they didn't charge me for a bunch of stuff.

[molly muffin]

www.carecredit.com Look into it.
Since you can get ACTH much cheaper, compare what the IMS would charge and anything you need to do that can be done cheaper at your vet, tell them so. You have to be firm about that. You want to know what is going on and it is mainly the consult you want.

It really does sound to me like he went too low cortisol when kept on the vetroyl. It can come on very suddenly and the symptoms are wobbly, won't eat, diarrhea sometimes, won't drink, etc. So much of what you are seeing. If he got an infection during that time, then it would be very opportunistic and he wouldn't be able to fight it off. I don't know that I am going to go with the stroke yet.
I think if he Did go low, then the prednisone is needed and will help him to recover, he needs to eat, prednisone will help with that, and even if he does start peeing alot, again, then that is likely due to the pred than to the cortisol rising naturally. He may never have cushings to deal with again, or he might not for a while anyway.

The more he can eat and keep down, by giving him many small meals a day, 5 or more, the better he will be. If that is beef hot dogs, well so be it. It is food, so that is what he needs. Try some treats, anything, a lick of peanut butter, anything he sees you eating, he might try. It would be worth it.

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Prednisone should be given with a schedule...it could mess things up if given irregularly.

Iraklis, I was to give him again the Predisone 20mg 2X a day for 3 days....then 1X for 3 days. I'm not giving him the Vetoryl at all right now. I don't plan to, until I can get another ACTH Stim done by my regular Vet ( it's much cheaper here where I live than in the city) ...Then I'm going to suggest when we do start Eli back on the Vetoryl again that we only start him back on 30 mg and work from there. I give him 1 about 8 AM and again at 8 PM. ....I always try to keep a good timeline with meds. Even with myself........sometimes. :D

[jxeno13]

www.carecredit.com Look into it.
Since you can get ACTH much cheaper, compare what the IMS would charge and anything you need to do that can be done cheaper at your vet, tell them so. You have to be firm about that. You want to know what is going on and it is mainly the consult you want.

It really does sound to me like he went too low cortisol when kept on the vetroyl. It can come on very suddenly and the symptoms are wobbly, won't eat, diarrhea sometimes, won't drink, etc. So much of what you are seeing. If he got an infection during that time, then it would be very opportunistic and he wouldn't be able to fight it off. I don't know that I am going to go with the stroke yet.
I think if he Did go low, then the prednisone is needed and will help him to recover, he needs to eat, prednisone will help with that, and even if he does start peeing alot, again, then that is likely due to the pred than to the cortisol rising naturally. He may never have cushings to deal with again, or he might not for a while anyway.

The more he can eat and keep down, by giving him many small meals a day, 5 or more, the better he will be. If that is beef hot dogs, well so be it. It is food, so that is what he needs. Try some treats, anything, a lick of peanut butter, anything he sees you eating, he might try. It would be worth it.

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

That's kind of what I thought from the beginning...<sigh> (I keep bouncing back and forth now) He's walking fairly well again.......still weak though (I'm guessing from not eating for so long). I've been feeding him the hotdogs, as you said, in small amounts, today. I know it's not good to give him a bunch of anything at one time. It would just make him sick for sure. The hotdogs are all beef.......tomorrow I'm going to the store and get turkey and beef again, just in case. I did make him ground round and rice....it was a no go..I even offered him cheerios, and pizza....another snub. For some reason he's nuts over the hotdogs. He's drinking a lot I just poured a third bottle of 16.9 oz bottle of water to his water bowl. I know the Predisone and hotdogs probably make him thirsty too. Like you said....I'll tell them I'm just there for the consult and second opinion. I'll be taking all of Eli's records with me when I go. I'll check out that website also. I sure wish I'd kept his insurance now! :(

[My sweet Ginger]

Now, it sounds like your vet's planning on weaning him off prednisone in a week or so, am I getting it right? That makes me very worried.
All of his symptoms are very similar to what my Ginger was having during and after multiple Lysodren loadings. It took us a few months and also cost us a lot more on many diagnostic testing trying to find out what was making her sick like that ; wouldn't eat, falling over, wobbly, sleeping a lot, weak, etc. and all of this was with an IMS and not with our regular vet! That was until we went to the 2nd IMS where she didn't even want an ACTH stim test by saying we don't need it because she clearly needs prednisone to survive and that means her adrenals are not making enough cortisol.
In my opinion, Eli needs to stay on prednisone therapy as long as his body needs it and you need not worry about starting Vetoryl for now and give him time to recover with the help of therapeutic level prednisone which will also help with his appetite.

I'm telling you this because I don't want you to go through the agony and expenses what we had to, most of all for Eli's sake.
I really don't think he needs 40mg a day, not even for 3 days to start off. He needs a daily doses at a much lower amount like 5mg x 1 daily. For how long? That Eli will let you know by his clinical signs and you will know. It's been over 5 months for Ginger now and her IMS is not worrying about doing an ACTH test whether her cortisol is rising which I just asked a few days ago.
I think we have to think his cortisol is very low and it's going to take longer maybe much longer than a few days for him to recover which is all up to his adrenals as to when they will start to regenerate.

Your vet sounds like a very nice person but to me he is not at all versed with Cushings so use him as a tool in helping Eli fight this disease as a team.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I am so glad you are taking Eli to be seen. I think like Sharlene, I really feel that was way too much of an dose of Vetoryl for his size like I said in the beginning. Also about his drinking, remember the hot dogs are full of salt so that could be adding to his wanting to drink so much. I am so glad he is eating something so bring on the hot dogs. This will help him get stronger with some food in his system. I agree with Sharlene about the charges also, let the regular vet do the things cheaper, as the IMS is going to be a lot higher probably. I do the same thing. My IMS charges 50.00 for a blood pressure. I would be paying her 200.00 a month as Tipper gets one every week. Speaking of that how was Eli's blood pressure? Hope you two have a good day and Eli keeps on eating. Did they weigh him and see how much weight he lost? Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

I dont' know what a specialist in Louisville cost. I know mine in canada was $170. for the consult, tests are extra, which is why you want to have your vet send up his complete records.
If he is eating that is great and if it was a case of his cortisol going too low then the pred along with the antibiotics for any infection, Might clear things up. If that is the case and he is back to normal, then you might not need the specialist. You'll have to keep evaluating each day how you think he is doing. It is a plus that your vet hasn't charged you for any of this so far. I wish they'd all be so caring and I'm glad your vet is worried too.
It seems like he has more energy now that he is eating, prob due to the pred and maybe just feeling better.
The care credit can definitely help out if you haven't looked into it, do so.
Now how is that computer of yours doing?
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

So far today has not started out too good. :( First Eli woke me up at 7:00 to take him out. (I have COPD and have to take my inhalers to breath first..and go the restroom first....before I can get going myself)....so, to make a long story short...after 8.5 yrs....Eli had an accident and peed on the floor waiting for me. It was no problem for me at all...I kept reassuring him it was OK and mopped it up. I went ahead got us read belly band at all pretending it never happened and took him out....he raised his little leg and squirted a little more and I brought him in for his treat. On our way in....he threw up some white foam again. :( He didn't throw up yesterday at all. .....He didn't take any hotdog today....and has been laying by in the kitchen by his water. Just now..8:30...he just threw-up again water and the white foam again. ..<sigh> .He never threw up any hotdog though from the Friday or yesterday. His eyes though did look clearer this morning, and he's not wobbling, but still seems weak, as I would imagine anyway....as sick as he's been. <sigh> No pills were given yet this morning. I thought I'd wait a few and see if he would take some food in a bit, until he just had this last episode.....I hate forcing things down his throat. :(

Oh......my monitor has been hanging in today. Not sure if it's trying to fake me out or what!

[jxeno13]

JoAnn:
I am so glad you are taking Eli to be seen. I think like Sharlene, I really feel that was way too much of an dose of Vetoryl for his size like I said in the beginning. Also about his drinking, remember the hot dogs are full of salt so that could be adding to his wanting to drink so much. I am so glad he is eating something so bring on the hot dogs. This will help him get stronger with some food in his system. I agree with Sharlene about the charges also, let the regular vet do the things cheaper, as the IMS is going to be a lot higher probably. I do the same thing. My IMS charges 50.00 for a blood pressure. I would be paying her 200.00 a month as Tipper gets one every week. Speaking of that how was Eli's blood pressure? Hope you two have a good day and Eli keeps on eating. Did they weigh him and see how much weight he lost? Blessings
Patti

The IMS shouldn't get to excited about seeing us "often" as it's a 2 hr drive...and I don't have that kind of money to pay the piper. He'll have to advise my Vet locally what to do when all is said and done. Right now I have to scrounge up over $1600 here in the very near future for my own medical. :o Surprisingly, Eli has not lost any weight...he's still 30 pounds. Actually, he's been overweight for some time now. He should weight about 22-26 pounds. Today he's turning up his nose to the hotdogs. I've tried cheese (Swiss and American), a treat, and also turkey breast. Next I'll try hamburger. <sigh>

[molly muffin]

So, I just looked up throwing up white foam and it is normally from the digestive tract and could be something as simple as having too much acid from not enough food. Did he have a little something to eat before bed last night?

This link will give you some more information:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dog-vomiting-white-foam.html

Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

I'm just frustrated now...he'll eat raw ground round...and did with his piils...:eek: At least we got his pills down. Then I cooked up the GR..worrying about any bacteria from his eating raw meat...and sure enough...he smelled the cooked meat....and walked away. I offered him the hotdogs again...still nothing. <sigh> I give up trying to speculate what could be wrong with him. At this point I'm thinking it could be anything. I only have 4... 20 mg pills of the Predisone left...an injection in the frig with 1ml....and a small bottle with 5cc in it. I can lessen the dosage by cutting up the pills if I have to and do a "walk down" to spread that out. They were also giving him Predisone for 2 days by IV, but I don't know how much....I'd have to assume right now the same amount. Hopefully, before I run out of the Predisone, I'll see the IMS. Perhaps even seeing just another closer regular GP Vet (maybe older) in Bowling Green....would have been sufficient. I just don't know anymore.

I'm not worried right now about giving him any Vetoryl...nor will I start him back on anything more than 30mg whenever that happens. I just want to get him back out of whatever this is.

[jxeno13]

So, I just looked up throwing up white foam and it is normally from the digestive tract and could be something as simple as having too much acid from not enough food. Did he have a little something to eat before bed last night?

This link will give you some more information:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dog-vomiting-white-foam.html

Sharlene and molly muffin

Hi Sharlene, Yes, he did eat a little hotdog around 10:30PM when I took him out for his last run. I wish he'd eat an anti-acid....I have plenty of those. :D ......Thanks for looking that up....I was just going to do that myself. I'm taking an anti-biotic that gives me indigestion REALLY bad right now, from when I had my teeth pulled the other day. :(

If he wasn't being such a turd I could give him that stomach medicine. :)

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
If all else fails he has to eat something to keep going. If he won't I would get the baby food, and syringe it into him. I have even done this with my cat, which it is dangerous for them not to eat because they have liver problems start. Once you get it in he will swallow it, he may not like you doing it, but it works and you know he has some good nutrition in him. You can even mix some nutri-cal in it. Wow if he is thirty pounds and was on 60 mg of trilostane I can see how he went low. That is double the starting dose of 1 mg per pound . If it were me, I would have started him on 20 mg. I think seeing the IMS is still a good idea in the condition he is in. After all that happened I am sorry, but I not trusting your vet after all this. I do know they have to gradually be taken off the prednisone. I sure hope you can take advantage of Care Credit as it will help you get thru this. Hope you are feeling better after getting teeth pulled. You really are having a bad time right now and I truly hope it changes soon. I am hopeful the IMS can turn this around and sweet Eli will get better. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Patti!

I'm waiting for my son to get here and force the stomach med on Eli to help him with that. I just took him down to pee and offered him cooked GR and he actually ate a little of that. Hotdogs seem to be history for now anyway. I cooked him some more ground round without the rice...since he won't have it with rice....to try that again. When my son gets here I can go to the store and pharmacy and get some baby food..perhaps more meat...and get a syringe and force feed him. He'll get mad again....but, oh well....I know he has to eat.

Right now my focus is getting him to eat. ...and hopefully getting him to the IMS and pulling him out of the shape he's in (if's that's possible).

[Harley PoMMom]

I wonder if Eli threw up because he was stressed about having an accident in the house, even though you did not scold him he just might have been upset with himself.

My Sampson is like that, every now and then he'll take a huge swig of water and if he gets real excited and runs around the house he upchucks the water, he then goes and hides and I keep telling him in the most sweetest voice that it was ok, but he hides every time it happens. :(:confused:

I hope he eats the baby food, another thing I wanted to mention is making his meals sorta soupy so that he just has to lap them up, maybe a tooth is bothering him? I know raw hamburger is not the greatest food for them but hey if it is something he will eat then I would feed it to him.

Hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

Hi JoAnn:
I am hoping you are going to post and tell us Eli has eaten!! Hope it is going well. That is one of the hardest bumps in the road to overcome. This has to be hard on your health too. God Bless you both.
Patti

[jxeno13]

Thanks, Patti and Lori, I'll try the raw ground round again. He has been going out......and did eat a little more cooked GR and a bite of hotdog (I ran out of hotdogs)...now I'll try the raw ground round...he's back to not eating anything again. The Vet checked his teeth and nothing was wrong there. That was his first thought when he first got sick. .....Eli could have been upset about peeing in the house...he's NEVER done that before in the 8.5 yrs that I've had him......He just ate a small patty sized piece of raw ground round. No worry about salt there. :) I guess he likes his hamburger on the rare side. Ha! But, he's eating little bits at a time. He'll only eat out of my hand now......I don't know what's up with that. Something else new he's picked up. I guess I should make a run to the store, but I hate leaving him alone.......and hate asking anyone here to stay with him. The one neighbor that I could have is sick.

[jxeno13]

I did get Eli to eat some more of the raw ground round. <sigh> I suppose it's better than nothing. He's still sleeping a lot...but we have been going out every couple of hours. He's drinking well......and peeing OK. No poop today, but it's been raining.......and he doesn't like going out in the rain. He never did.

[Harley PoMMom]

Sice he has no issues with drinking, do you think that you could sneak some chicken/beef broth (that has no onions or onion powder) for him to drink so that he may get a bit more nutrients in his system?

[molly muffin]

ohhh, good idea
you could put a bowl down beside his water bowl maybe and he'd drink it. If not just syringe that stuff down his throat. LOL (I've done this enough that molly sees that syringe and immediately thinks, Oh No!)


Sharlene and molly muffin

[doxiesrock912]

JoAnn,

I'm glad that you're making progress getting Eli to eat. Hoping that the IMS solves the problem soon!
Daisy likes Libby's canned pumpkin and if it's something that is upsetting Eli's stomach, this helps a lot.

I get it in the baking aisle. It's canned pumpkin only without anything else added.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
Just checking to see how Eli is progressing?? Hope he ate some more for you. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

I'm about to make some Greek soup for myself....chicken broth....I'll drop some in his water or at least next to it. :) ..I also just happen to have some pumpkin in my cabinet. Maybe, he'll go for some of that. I was making dog biscuits with it. Yum! He's still not going for real food...he dropped hotdogs like a hot potato and went for the raw beef now. <sigh> My son did get him to eat some of the cooked. Now, Eli will only eat if he's hand feed. He's getting pretty picky now, but he's eating. .The arrangements are made for Eli to go to the IMS in Louisville.....they are only waiting for me to make an appointment. <sigh> Another long story.......

I called them and an the initial consult is $90. I get my check on Friday. I'm not sure if that includes an exam. I'm thinking that's just to say "Hi, how are you today?" ....an exam could extra. :confused: I did ask the cost of an ACTH Stim $340. .....:eek: THAT ain't gonna happen! I can see where this is going in charges. It would be cool if I had that kind of money....it wouldn't be a problem at all!! ....But, the truth of the matter is....I don't. And, if they're like my doctor's at Vanderbilt......they'll say; "we'd rather do our own testing here." I can hear it now. :(

Also, I have to get a ride or reliable to drive the 2 hrs. I'm not in great shape.....and haven't driven that far in awhile. I have to see if my son will drive me. I can hear him whining now. Although, sometimes, bribes work work well. Anything else.......I could add.....but I don't want to make myself totally sick. I already have a headache as it is. Ha!

I did apply to 2 places for financial help for grants. That's probably like waiting for an act of Congress. I'm going to call my Vet back again tomorrow and have him call the IMS (if he will) and talk to him......and see if he can get some kind of consult himself...and maybe, perhaps an idea on charges...get an idea of what of what kind of tests they might want to run. It's worth a try anyway.

[Renee]

I am sorry to hear about the money troubles. Believe me, most, if not all of us, have had to consider the cost of everything we are doing. Cushings can quickly add up. I am astounded how much I have spent on this journey since last October.

$340 for a stim test is pretty high, but not the highest (I pay $250 at my vet's). I suspect they make you pay for a big portion of the cortosyn upfront, which is where most of the expense is. That stuff is so expensive!

Having your vet call the IMS ahead of time is a very good idea. It may be that they will use your vet's test results rather than running their own. One can hope.

The consult should be what they quoted you, then they will charge extra for any testing, etc.

[goldengirl88]

Hi JoAnn:
So glad to hear that Eli is eating, albeit hand feeding. Does he like any fish like salmon? I know things are tuff for many of our cush family when it comes to doggie finances. Maybe your vet can talk them down a bit and tell them Eli really needs this appointment, but can they hold the cost down?? I hope you could get a grant that would help you out, if it doesn't take a lifetime to get! Hope Eli laps up the Greek broth. I will be taking Tipper to my IMS Wednesday for her ultra sound. I pray everything goes well for my girl, it is difficult waiting there to learn her fate. I am hoping your appointment with the IMS will get Eli turned around and feeling better. That poor baby has been thru a lot. Hope you are feeling better and that your son can help you out and drive for you. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Actually, if your vet sends all the files up there, fax them, and asks a specialist to look them over and see if there is something that he is missing, or recommend another option for Your vet to pursue with Eli, then you don't need to go for a physical exam yourself at this point anyway. Several of our vets will call a specialist to get their input. So, this could be a way to do this. Tell your vet, no transportation, no money at this time and suggest he try that route.

What have you got to lose by asking.:)

Hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I know the money is tight, but if it were my dog I would want another set of eyes on him, you never know that might unlock this mystery.

[Renee]

Actually, if your vet sends all the files up there, fax them, and asks a specialist to look them over and see if there is something that he is missing, or recommend another option for Your vet to pursue with Eli, then you don't need to go for a physical exam yourself at this point anyway. Several of our vets will call a specialist to get their input. So, this could be a way to do this. Tell your vet, no transportation, no money at this time and suggest he try that route.

What have you got to lose by asking.:)

Hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

Sharlene, you are brilliant! I forgot about this option, but my vet has done this a lot. She's new to cushings, so she has consulted with a number of specialists on my behalf. I've never had to pay for any of that.

[jxeno13]

Actually, if your vet sends all the files up there, fax them, and asks a specialist to look them over and see if there is something that he is missing, or recommend another option for Your vet to pursue with Eli, then you don't need to go for a physical exam yourself at this point anyway. Several of our vets will call a specialist to get their input. So, this could be a way to do this. Tell your vet, no transportation, no money at this time and suggest he try that route.

What have you got to lose by asking.:)

Hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

I thought pretty much the same thing myself sort of. If I can work out getting there with Eli after my Vet consults with him...I'll have the records, as well, with me....let the IMS examine Eli still...but run any tests here. I only pay Approx. $70 for a ACTH Stim here.

[molly muffin]

Yes but your vet can actually consult the specialist even before you can go up there. Most of our vets have consulted on difficult cases.

Sharlene and Molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Yes but your vet can actually consult the specialist even before you can go up there. Most of our vets have consulted on difficult cases.

Sharlene and Molly muffin

Right, Sharlene, that's what I'm planning on asking him to do. I'm sure he will....surely. I'll just have to lay it all out to him. It will be to his benefit as well, I think anyway.

Anyway, my brain is fried......it's storming outside, and I'm going on to bed. Thank you all! G'night, and sleep well.

Jo Ann and Eli

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
Glad you found a way to save some money, but happier that the IMS will still be seeing Eli. I am confident they are better able to get to the bottom of Eli's problem. How is he doing on the food, is he still eating OK? I know this is a lot to deal with especially when you are not feeling well yourself. It will work out. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

I hope Tippers, scan comes out well today. We had another bad morning. Only this time.......Eli made it to the elevator before he peed in his belly band. :D It leaked a little, so I ran back in and mopped that up. I still raised him..ran back in changed him.and back out we went as if nothing had happened. But, he's laying in the kitchen....perhaps pouting. ..Thank God for Belly Bands! :D I've tried different kinds. Drs. Foster and Smith has the best! Cheap too! I use disposable pads and washable pads, in case, anyone, needs information on those. The washable I ordered from a place in Canada. :D

It's too early to know anything of substance, I guess I'll be back to researching my predicament on finances.....and Cushing's. ..This is tasking to say the least.........especially when Eli has never been sick before. Not even a runny nose.

The only thing he seems interested in right now is the raw GR, hand fed. Even salmon and tuna....not even his beloved hotdogs seem to attract him anymore. But, he is eating......and not throwing anything up.

[molly muffin]

I think that eating is a good sign. I hope he continues to improve. I'd right now put the accidents down the prednisone that is helping him in other ways.
I'm sure he is distressed at having accidents. That can really bother some dogs.

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I bet the accidents are getting to him mentally. I can see my Tipper doing that, she would never ever go in the house, and she would be horrified if she did. I am so glad Eli is eating the ground round. Hey if that's what it takes! Hope you are not anywhere having this bad weather. Stay safe, and let us know how sweet Eli is doing. Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi! Just an update. Thank you for asking. Firstly, the really nasty weather is below us..for now anyway, although, it's been stormy here for a couple of days. I do have relatives though in the storm areas. I'm praying they are all OK.

Eli has been doing a little better day by day. He's still on his raw GR and now some hotdogs..(he's picky, I noticed about the brands) He's only had very little hotdogs though. I also bought him some Nutri-Cal today and he seems to like that! Yesterday he eat 2 dog biscuits from the pharmacy when I took him for a ride....and a little bit of a powered donut. I think he's coming back to life again! :D

Next Tuesday, 5/6/14 - I'll be taking him to the IMS in Louisville. My Vet tried picking his brain there, but of course, they said; "we need to see him".and maybe run a "few" tests. :eek:

I went to my Vet's office today and talked to him in depth, and discussed Eli's case, picked up a copy of all his records and a stomach x-ray, to take with me.

I'm still thinking he got "loaded" per se on the Vetoryl...and perhaps dropped too fast on his Cortisol level...and his system got toxic from that drug making him sick and vomiting....also it could be something neurological...(unless that was just another side effect, since Eli hasn't been showing any of those odd symptoms since I brought him home)....Of course seeing the IMS will give us the big picture, I hope...since I'm so new to all this.

I did discuss whenever we can pull Eli out of this "funk"...and get him back "healthy" again....we'll start him back on some kind of Cushing's medicine....but on a much lower dose and work up from there. But, we'll discuss more of that way on up the road. Right now, I'm only worried about Eli's recovery day to day. :cool:

[jxeno13]

JoAnn:
I bet the accidents are getting to him mentally. I can see my Tipper doing that, she would never ever go in the house, and she would be horrified if she did. I am so glad Eli is eating the ground round. Hey if that's what it takes! Hope you are not anywhere having this bad weather. Stay safe, and let us know how sweet Eli is doing. Blessings
Patti

That could very well be, Patti! The very first time he had an accident in the elevator, he cowered in the corner. I always reassure him that's it's OK....but I don't think he gets that at all. Like I've said before in 8.5 yrs...Eli's never even had an accident in the house, ever.

[molly muffin]

You Do get to decide what tests you want them to run. It is entirely possible that Eli crashed on the vetroyl from too large of a dose and that with the antibiotics clearing up the infection and no vetroyl, he will come around right as rain in a week or even days. The accidents will continue likely, as long as he is on the prednisone, but you know how that it, you drink, you pee, you drink, you pee. I'm sure that he is quite devastated. I thought my golden was going to have a heart attack her first accident, she felt so bad and the cowering in the corner, definitely means he thinks/knows that in normal circumstances, this isn't something he should do and would feel bad about it. All you can do is to reassure him that it's okay and momma's not mad at him.

Hang in there, glad you are okay and hope your family all are too.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

On the forum we've seen some dogs that have had their cortisol drop too low while being treated with Trilostane/Vetoryl and then go on a "Vetoryl/Trilostane hiatus" for a while. I just want you to be aware that this can happen so therefore an ACTH stimulation test needs to performed before treatment for Cushing's is restarted.

I'm glad to read that Eli is still eating and I hope his appetite perks up real soon.

Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

On the forum we've seen some dogs that have had their cortisol drop too low while being treated with Trilostane/Vetoryl and then go on a "Vetoryl/Trilostane hiatus" for a while. I just want you to be aware that this can happen so therefore an ACTH stimulation test needs to performed before treatment for Cushing's is restarted.

I'm glad to read that Eli is still eating and I hope his appetite perks up real soon.

Hugs, Lori

Hi Patti!! I figured he have to have another stim test before going back on the Vetoryl again. But, this time..we'll go low and slow. The Vet said there are some other drugs out there too. We didn't discuss them much though. We will when it's time again. He said he just got a flyer yesterday for a new drug that just came out with no side effects....but without much data...we didn't want to try that at all. I've done experimental things for myself for my disorder, but I can talk and complain...where Eli can't.

I just wish there where foundations for dogs with Cushing's. I wonder what's up with that?

I did lay some dog food on the floor for him. I'm back to the store here in a minute to get some more ground round and maybe some turkey hotdogs..and sardines. Something has to turn him on again. I'm running out of ideas. :eek:

[Harley PoMMom]

He said he just got a flyer yesterday for a new drug that just came out with no side effects....but without much data...we didn't want to try that at all.

Could you find out the name of this new medication for canine Cushing's I would be so interested in knowing what it is...Thanks!


Something has to turn him on again. I'm running out of ideas. :eek:

Just throwing some ideas out, have you tried deli meats or cheeses or tuna?

Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

What number am I looking for on the ACTH stim results? I have those results.....



>1.5@4hrs >2.0@8hrs Consistent with Hyperadrenocorticism
<1.0@4hrs <2.0@8hrs Consistent with Pituitary Hyperadrenorticism

There are more numbers on this paper.

5.77 ug/dl 0-6
3.70 ug/dl 0-1 (H)
3.46 ug/dl 0-1 (H)

[jxeno13]

Could you find out the name of this new medication for canine Cushing's I would be so interested in knowing what it is...Thanks!



Just throwing some ideas out, have you tried deli meats or cheeses or tuna?

Hugs, Lori

Hi Lori! Thanks! I haven't tried Tuna yet.....cheese, yes. Usually, his favorite.

Oh gee........sorry, I didn't get the name. But I can find out, but it may be tomorrow though. I've already been there and called today...I didn't want to drive them totally crazy...yet. I'll go tomorrow and ask. I owe them money they'll be happy to see my face again! :D

[Harley PoMMom]

What number am I looking for on the ACTH stim results? I have those results.....



>1.5@4hrs >2.0@8hrs Consistent with Hyperadrenocorticism
<1.0@4hrs <2.0@8hrs Consistent with Pituitary Hyperadrenorticism

There are more numbers on this paper.

5.77 ug/dl 0-6
3.70 ug/dl 0-1 (H)
3.46 ug/dl 0-1 (H)

Those numbers look more like they came from a LDDS (low-dose dexamethasone suppression) test than an ACTH stimulation test. Does the lab report state at which time the blood draws were done?

A LDDS test will have three numbers and the time stamps will be at 0 or baseline, 4 hour and 8 hour. The ACTH stimulation test will have 2 (U.S)or 3 (Canada) time stamps for the blood draws and states a pre number along with a post/s number.

[jxeno13]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=877&pictureid=6675

Here's the panel from the lab. I scanned it.

There were 3 serum specimens submitted. The only time on it ...I'm assuming is when the test was run at Murray State University Breathitt Veterinary Center...on 4/1/14 at 2:17 PM.

[Squirt's Mom]

Is this the test the vet did when Eli was so sick?

[jxeno13]

Is this the test the vet did when Eli was so sick?

No, no....this was the first ACTH test done on 4/1/14...the other was a blood test when he was sick......that's in the albums.

[Harley PoMMom]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=877&pictureid=6675

Here's the panel from the lab. I scanned it.

There were 3 serum specimens submitted. The only time on it ...I'm assuming is when the test was run at Murray State University Breathitt Veterinary Center...on 4/1/14 at 2:17 PM.

This is a LDDS test and is not an ACTH stimulation test. The lab report has a baseline value of 5.77 ug/dl, a 4 hour value of 3.70 ug/dl and an 8 hour value of 3.46 ug/dl. These LDDS test results do point to Cushing's but they do not differentiate between pituitary or adrenal based Cushing's. False positive results can be created from the LDDS test if a non-adrenal illness is present, and if the LDDS test was done when Eli was not feeling well than those results could be falsely elevated.

[jxeno13]

This is a LDDS test and is not an ACTH stimulation test. The lab report has a baseline value of 5.77 ug/dl, a 4 hour value of 3.70 ug/dl and an 8 hour value of 3.46 ug/dl. These LDDS test results do point to Cushing's but they do not differentiate between pituitary or adrenal based Cushing's. False positive results can be created from the LDDS test if a non-adrenal illness is present, and if the LDDS test was done when Eli was not feeling well than those results could be falsely elevated.

Hummm......I was told it was a test for Cushing's. I don't even remember if he said exactly ACTH stim or not anymore. ..He did say it was the 8 hour test.....the better one. When the test was taken though, Eli was OK..he wasn't sick then. Just the drinking and peeing was going on. Why then would the results say "consistant with Pituitary Hyperadrenocorticism? That came from the University lab. Does the LDDS take 8 hours as well? I'm so confused now. Although, it does say Low Dose Dex. on it. :confused::(

I guess I'll learn as I go. <sigh> :(

[Harley PoMMom]

The LDDS test does take 8 hours to perform. When interpreting the LDDS test certain criteria has to be meant for pituitary cushing's, first the 8 hour post-dexamethasone administration cortisol concentration needs to be above the reference range, which looks like 2 ug/dl on Eli's lab report, and then at least 50% cortisol concentration suppression needs to be present at the four- or eight-hour time points, which did not happen so those results only point to Cushing's.

[jxeno13]

" False positive results can be created from the LDDS test if a non-adrenal illness is present"

I guess I need to research that some more.

Hopefully, the IMS can point us to the right direction on Tuesday.

[jxeno13]

The LDDS test does take 8 hours to perform. When interpreting the LDDS test certain criteria has to be meant for pituitary cushing's, first the 8 hour post-dexamethasone administration cortisol concentration needs to be above the reference range, which looks like 2 ug/dl on Eli's lab report, and then at least 50% cortisol concentration suppression needs to be present at the four- or eight-hour time points, which did not happen so those results only point to Cushing's.

Humm...thanks!

I'm going to make a list of questions to take to the IMS with me. That's all I can do at this point.

[Squirt's Mom]

There is not one test that can diagnose Cushing's and there is no one "best" test. Too many factors are involved. ;) Let me share Squirt's story with you in case I haven't already.

She went in for pre-dental lab work and I was told her cortisol was elevated - she would need more tests after the dental. She had the LDDS (the test Eli had), the HDDS, the ACTH, the UTK panel, and two abdominal ultrasound - ALL of which were positive for Cushing's and pointed to the pituitary form. (BTW, in true Cushing's with elevated cortisol there is always a tumor present -either on the adrenal gland(s) or the pituitary gland or both.) However, after the second US I was told about a tumor on her spleen. I had the tumor and half her spleen taken out and once she was recovered, her cortisol returned to normal - ALL those test had returned false positives because of the tumor on her spleen.

Cortisol is the bodies natural response to stress of any kind - internal or external. The tests for Cushing's can only tell that the cortisol is elevated but NOT why. That is why we encourage as many tests as can be afforded to try to make sure of the diagnosis. Cushing's is one of, if not THE, most difficult canine disease to correctly diagnose. So many other things have the same signs, like diabetes and hypothyroidism, and any non-adrenal condition (like the tumor on Squirt's spleen or a UTI or any number of things) can cause elevated cortisol yet NOT be Cushing's at all. BTW - "non-adrenal conditions" are anything that does not involve the adrenal glands. There is no doubt if we were to have a test for Cushing's on certain days, we too would have results showing elevated cortisol....but that doesn't mean we have Cushing's - we are simply cush pup parents stressed to the max! :D

I hope this helps!

[jxeno13]

There is not one test that can diagnose Cushing's and there is no one "best" test. Too many factors are involved. ;) Let me share Squirt's story with you in case I haven't already.

She went in for pre-dental lab work and I was told her cortisol was elevated - she would need more tests after the dental. She had the LDDS (the test Eli had), the HDDS, the ACTH, the UTK panel, and two abdominal ultrasound - ALL of which were positive for Cushing's and pointed to the pituitary form. (BTW, in true Cushing's with elevated cortisol there is always a tumor present -either on the adrenal gland(s) or the pituitary gland or both.) However, after the second US I was told about a tumor on her spleen. I had the tumor and half her spleen taken out and once she was recovered, her cortisol returned to normal - ALL those test had returned false positives because of the tumor on her spleen.

Cortisol is the bodies natural response to stress of any kind - internal or external. The tests for Cushing's can only tell that the cortisol is elevated but NOT why. That is why we encourage as many tests as can be afforded to try to make sure of the diagnosis. Cushing's is one of, if not THE, most difficult canine disease to correctly diagnose. So many other things have the same signs, like diabetes and hypothyroidism, and any non-adrenal condition (like the tumor on Squirt's spleen or a UTI or any number of things) can cause elevated cortisol yet NOT be Cushing's at all. BTW - "non-adrenal conditions" are anything that does not involve the adrenal glands. There is no doubt if we were to have a test for Cushing's on certain days, we too would have results showing elevated cortisol....but that doesn't mean we have Cushing's - we are simply cush pup parents stressed to the max! :D

I hope this helps!

Hi Leslie! It helped a LOT thanks! I did have Eli checked for diabetes first as soon as I noticed something was going wrong. I usually run him to the Vet for a runny nose, because he's never been sick before Aug. He was a negative for that. Then gave him anti-biotics for perhaps a UTI, not that. He really didn't have any symptoms for that. ...The Vet suspected Cushing's..he did have other Cushing's dogs that he was treating, that's when he ran the LDDS....and it came it positive for the Cushing's. He put Eli on the Vetoryl 60 mg. ......Eli by 10 days was actually getting back to his old self. Stomach was not as distended, he was back to drinking water regular, peeing regular, he could hold it again, he had quit the panting......and had started sleeping with me again. Even sleep on his back again the last night before he got sick. ..On that last 11th day is when the bottom fell out. ....You explained it very well. I appreciate that. I'm glad your Squirt's turned out to be a fixable tumor with surgery.

I have a question......can the LDDS and ACTH just be a matter of choice for the Vet? Same with the High Dose Supp? (HDDS) I'll sure agree Cush pup parents stressed to the max!!

[Harley PoMMom]

Using the LDDS or ACTH stimulation test for diagnosing Cushing's is really not just a choice made by the vet, this decision should be made while taking all variables into consideration. Such as; if Cushing's is suspected in a dog that has diabetes than the ACTH stimulation test would be a better choice than the LDDS test because when any non-adrenal illness is present the LDDS test can create a false positive result.

If Cushing's is suspected in a dog with no other health issues but has all the clinical Cushing's symptoms than the LDDS test would be the preferred test because this test has the ability to differentiate between the pituitary and adrenal type of Cushing's.

The LDDS test is more sensitive with fewer false negatives, but less specific with more false positives than the ACTH stimulation test in dogs that have a non-adrenal illness.

Hugs, Lori

[jxeno13]

Using the LDDS or ACTH stimulation test for diagnosing Cushing's is really not just a choice made by the vet, this decision should be made while taking all variables into consideration. Such as; if Cushing's is suspected in a dog that has diabetes than the ACTH stimulation test would be a better choice than the LDDS test because when any non-adrenal illness is present the LDDS test can create a false positive result.

If Cushing's is suspected in a dog with no other health issues but has all the clinical Cushing's symptoms than the LDDS test would be the preferred test because this test has the ability to differentiate between the pituitary and adrenal type of Cushing's.

The LDDS test is more sensitive with fewer false negatives, but less specific with more false positives than the ACTH stimulation test in dogs that have a non-adrenal illness.

Hugs, Lori

Thanks, Lori! I'm getting it now!! :D Eli didn't have any other health issues at the time, nor did he in the past. The Cushing's was suspected when I took him to the Vet when the excessive water drinking and peeing started and escalated right after he had had his teeth cleaned and a small tumor removed from his neck. (Which was benign) He was never sick before that except once in Aug. with something he took anti-biotics and was fine. (I knew he had also eaten something strange outside just before that incident). Otherwise, Eli has always been very healthy and ready to roll at the drop of a hat. I read that stress i.e. like surgery or cold (it was like 2 degrees here that same week) can bring out the Cushing's symptoms. One of the links I read before here..is also recommended reading here. I forget the woman's name now..it's a blog. Then I could see some past behavior in her description and what I explained to the Vet...not knowing what was going on with Eli that he had started....i.e. being scared outside of little sudden noises. .actually walking backwards all of a sudden out of the kitchen, being scared to eat out out of his bowl, (I put his food next to his bowl on a little rug)..If I forget to take his collar off, and his tags tinkle on the bowl it scares him......just to name a few. Oh! His panting at night when he sleeps with me. Now he sleeps on the floor where it cooler...he doesn't pant there. Thus....I guess the reason of many for the LDDS test. ;)

Hugs back, Jo Ann and Eli :D

[Squirt's Mom]

The vet we started with on our journey was just wonderful and very thorough in everything she did. I had no clue what was going on, what the tests meant, or anything else - I just put us in Doc Karen's hands and she ran every test available. She did not know about the UTK panel but went to work quickly to learn about it and Atypical when I talked to her about it.

Squirt, too, had been healthy other than her legs and little things like occasional infections, etc. I ran to the vet with her anytime something seemed off and I had funds to do so. Doc Karen understood I was not the typical parent so she went the extra mile for us, knowing I would want that.

Lori's explanation of the testing is spot on - the problem is not all vets have the same knowledge or understanding of this disease. I was astounded to find out many, many vets in our area simply do not treat Cushing's at all. They either send them to specialist right off or tell the clients there is no need to treat - their dog is going to die soon either way. Once I searched for a vet over something like a 150 mi radius and found ONE who would see her. This is a complicated disease so some vets just throw in the towel instead of trying to learn....plus many have been taught in school this is a lost cause so it's no use to waste their time and energy nor the owner's money. I had several of those vets I talked to tell me just that. :rolleyes::mad::eek:

This family saved my Squirt and my sanity by helping me understand better...and Doc Karen was just what we needed.

Hang in there! You are doing great, Mom, and Eli is so blessed to have you on his team.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[jxeno13]

The vet we started with on our journey was just wonderful and very thorough in everything she did. I had no clue what was going on, what the tests meant, or anything else - I just put us in Doc Karen's hands and she ran every test available. She did not know about the UTK panel but went to work quickly to learn about it and Atypical when I talked to her about it.

Squirt, too, had been healthy other than her legs and little things like occasional infections, etc. I ran to the vet with her anytime something seemed off and I had funds to do so. Doc Karen understood I was not the typical parent so she went the extra mile for us, knowing I would want that.

Lori's explanation of the testing is spot on - the problem is not all vets have the same knowledge or understanding of this disease. I was astounded to find out many, many vets in our area simply do not treat Cushing's at all. They either send them to specialist right off or tell the clients there is no need to treat - their dog is going to die soon either way. Once I searched for a vet over something like a 150 mi radius and found ONE who would see her. This is a complicated disease so some vets just throw in the towel instead of trying to learn....plus many have been taught in school this is a lost cause so it's no use to waste their time and energy nor the owner's money. I had several of those vets I talked to tell me just that. :rolleyes::mad::eek:

This family saved my Squirt and my sanity by helping me understand better...and Doc Karen was just what we needed.

Hang in there! You are doing great, Mom, and Eli is so blessed to have you on his team.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Thank you Leslie! Your kinds words, Lori's, and those of others have truly helped! Your kind note brought tears to my eyes. Today, as each day, Eli is doing a bit better. Day by day he seems to get a bit stronger...but not well by any means. It does get frustrating ....and not having ready limitless funds for him only makes it worse. <sigh> :( I can only do what I can do. So, it always seems like I'm not doing enough. He's still eating the raw GR with Neutra-Cal. He has downed a couple of his doggy cookies........carob and yogurt. He always loved them, but gave them up awhile back. He's through with the anti-biotics....but I'm still giving him a 10 mg Predisone. I may drop it down to 5 mg by the weekend and nothing by Sunday.....so he'll be at 48 hrs steroid free when I take him to the IMS on Tuesday.

So far that's my plan. Our Vet office (which has many Vet's there)....no longer takes payments from ppl, but I've been going there for so long they let me do it. Thank God for that!

Anyway, Eli seems to be hanging in pretty good today. He had me up at 2:30AM to take him out, so I may have to take a nap this afternoon. I have do house cleaning some today, I've been exhausted and done nothing around here. :( It's time to get moving again! :eek:

Jo Ann and Eli

[Harley PoMMom]

but I'm still giving him a 10 mg Predisone. I may drop it down to 5 mg by the weekend and nothing by Sunday.....so he'll be at 48 hrs steroid free when I take him to the IMS on Tuesday.

Jo Ann and Eli

Hi JoAnn,

I'm a bit concerned with the Eli's prednisone plan, when a dog has been taking prednisone for a while the dose needs to be tapered over a period of time because a dog's system recognizes predisone in the same way as cortisol, since Eli is on a pretty good dose of prednisone his adrenal glands may not be producing enough cortisol on their own for his body so the tapering of the prednsione is so very important as this gives the adrenals time to start producing the cortisol that the dog's body needs.

If this were me, I would try to call the IMS and ask his/her opinion on the prednisone. IMS' are usually more knowledgeable about Cushing's and most times have a lot more experience in treating dogs with Cushing's so the IMS may not want Eli to stop taking the prednisone or the IMS may have Eli start taking dexamethasone instead as dexamethasone will not interfere with the assay for cortisol.

Hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I am praying for you and Eli. I am so happy to hear he is getting stronger. Keep up the good work mom you are doing an excellent job. God Bless you both
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Checking on the baby today, how is he doing now? I pray he gets thru this. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Getting a bit nervous not hearing from you. I hope all is well with both you and Eli? Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi! I'm back. I had to take a day away. I'm stressing out with all this. I had to run errands yesterday..and I'm just plain tired. I also got his Vet bill. At least they let me pay that in payments, but I still stress out over that! :(

Eli is doing pretty fair. He's still eating the GR....but funds are running out for much more of that daily. He's going to have to try another diet. I did buy some sardines and some tuna..I'm going to try that in dog food and see if I can get him to eat some of that.

I gave him 10 mg still of Predisone. I can't call the IMS until Monday..but, he doesn't seem to be talking (not even to my Vet) until he sees Eli on Tuesday. :(

Eli seems better, eating and not throwing up at all.peeing and pooping good, but he started back with the drooling some when he quit taking the anti-biotics. He's never done that before, except when he first got sick. It's only on his left side...and only a bit now. But, it still concerns me. I will bring all this to the IMS attention on Tuesday.

How is Tipper doing? I hope your babies are doing OK this Saturday. It's been pretty outside so, Eli took me for a little walk today. He went back to our old apartment building across the court...no one was home to visit though! He was disappointed and wanted to sit on the stairs. He loves people! :D

[molly muffin]

www, that is so sweet that Eli wanted to go visiting.
So no drooling while on the antibiotics but he is now? Maybe just give your vet a call on Monday. Might be he needs to be on the antibiotics longer. The IMS might want to run a blood panel there if you wait for him, and it would likely cost more for them to do it than your vet to do it if needed.
Oh we all need breaks now and then. Just you know we worry too, like a bunch of mother hens around here. :)
Certainly take any time you need when you need it. An inner recharge is a good thing!

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
I am so glad to hear you have your IMS appointment Monday. I will be thinking of you and praying for Eli that they find out what is wrong. Have you heard back from anyone on the financial help? Blessings
Patti

[jxeno13]

Hi Patti and Sharlene! Eli goes to the IMS on Tuesday at 1:00 not Monday in Louisville. I wish it was Monday. I still haven't heard from any of the funding places. One even said they'd notify you in 24 hrs. I never heard from either one. :(

Yea, Sharlene, Eli is a social butterfly around here. I pretty much let him lead me around. There's a large yard with a walking trail...so he has lots of ground to cover. He went and the front door of the building...and saw no one..then went around to the side door....and sat on those stairs.....hoping for someone to open the door, I guess. Probably me. He is funny. LOL

Today, he's still eating just the slight drool, panting, and tremor. He did make it up on the couch to sleep with me some last night...but I could hear him panting a lot, so after a while he got back down on the floor. He had just started sleeping with me again when he got sick. I've been sleeping on the couch so I could be closer to him since he's been sick.

I'll call the IMS tomorrow to ask about the Predisone.

[molly muffin]

Ask him about if Eli might need more antibiotic and tell him about the drooling too.
At least that is good about him eating. That was so hard when he wasn't eating.

Can you contact them again tomorrow? Try the carecredit.com credit card as that can be a last result if needed to use. Always good to have it though. Ask your vet tomorrow too, if he knows of any organization that can help with vet bills for lower income. Maybe he is aware. Also call the Humane society and ask them if they are aware of any programs.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Hi JoAnn:
Maybe you aren't even home yet, I am just wondering how things went?? I pray they know what is wrong. You are probably worn out from all of this. Hope they find the cause of him not wanting to eat. I sure hope you can get some financial help as that is a worry . I am sending big hugs to you and Eli from Tipper and I.
Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

I just wanted to check in and see how today went for you and Eli.
Are you okay? How is Eli?

I bet you're exhausted that is a long trip.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[jxeno13]

Hi! Back yesterday about 4:30. Eli did fine...but I was exhausted. I'll be glad when this this week is over. The IMS said he'll be OK. He's probably sensitive to the Vetoryl and that his Cortisol level dropped too low. The vomiting another side effect of the Vetoryl...The drooling is another problem....but, I couldn't afford to also see a Neurologist right now for him. She thinks it's a nerve on the side of his tongue. But, I still plan to take care of that as soon as I can pay off what I owe now. They did a sonogram on his kidneys, liver, etc. which came out OK and shows that... Eli has Pituitary tumor type of Cushing's. He'll still be treated with Vetoryl....at a later date....but in a much lower dose. And, she'll work with my Vet as well. So, in other words he'll be OK. He did eat yesterday after we got back.......and actually ate his dog food. He didn't have much choice though, since I didn't offer him any burger. ..I still have more tests to have run on him at my Vet's......but will be cheaper here. The ACTH or LDDS, whichever he wants to run to get Eli's present Cortisol level....and another CBC. The total there would have been $900. as it was it still cost $390. not counting $50. for gas and lunch. :( Which is on top of my already (back up to) $460. Vet bill. <sigh> ....I'm worrying constantly about the money, but praying it will all work out OK. At least I know Eli is going to be OK..and that's what matters. The rest will work out somehow. :D

The IMS said to comtinue giving Eli the 10 mg Predisone...and give a tab of Pepsid AC for his stomach, at least until he gets they get his Cortisol level again. The Predisone won't hurt him. Then she'll work with my Vet and decide whether to give Eli 15mg or 30mg of Vetoryl depending on his Cortisol level.

Right now he's not drinking a lot or dripping either. So, he may not even go back on the Vetoryl until that time.......which may not be for a couple of months down the road. But, he's getting stronger every day. :D:D:D

[My sweet Ginger]

JoAnn, I'm so happy and relieved to read your post today. Wonderful job you did for Eli taking him to the IMS and having this IMS in Eli's team will be invaluable as your local vet certainly does need guidance treating sweet Eli. I think we all knew he was suffering from Vetoryl overdose and it sounds like he is finally coming out of it. I'm so happy about that. It just may take some time for his system to recover.

We will all be waiting for Eli's ACTH results patiently. Did she tell you to stop prednisone for 1-2 days before an ACTH test while he still needs it or switch to something else?

Have you applied for care credit? Is it available where you live?
I hope you get some kind of financial help as I can relate to your money situation. Take care.

[goldengirl88]

JoAnn:
Thank God I am so happy to read this post. The most important thing is Eli will be ok. I. Know all about the money worries too, so I can empathize with you on that. Just know it will all work out in the end and as long a your baby is ok the world is good. This makes my day, as I know how worried you were. A new set of eyes did the trick this time around, so the exhausting trip was worth it. I would not be starting Eli any higher than 15 mg if it were me. He will have time to adjust to the drug and his cortisol dropping. Who knows he may not need it for a while, but the numbers will tell all. Blessings
Patti