Advice needed re toilet training

[Robert]

Hi all hope everyone and their little friends are well . I got a very cute and loveable Maltese shitzu cross pup not long after tom passed. She is perfect except for toilet training. She is now 7 months old and just goes wherever she happens to be at the time which is mainly inside. Not one particular place and can be on hardwood surfaces or mats. She is my fourth pup and the other three have been easy to train...invested lots of time and did the reward thing...all four I took three weeks off when I first got them.
I am seriously thinking about tossing the towel in and getting Bella an indoor toilet. Would appreciate any advice.

[lulusmom]

Hi Robert,

I have to run to an appointment and only have time for a few questions. Have you ruled out a urinary tract or bladder infection? Have you noticed any incontinence while Bella is sleeping? Have you tried crate training? I'm pretty sure most of us have been through potty training so no doubt others will probably have some tips you haven't thought of.

Glynda

[molly muffin]

With mine I just took her out very frequently, and did the reward thing when she peed. Also if I saw her start to go, then I would pick her up and taker her outside.
Luckily I wasn't working when going through this with molly and although she did have some behavioral accidents (she was a rescue) she adjusted fairly well.

Have you tried pee pads for while in the house? Put her in a pen and put a bad down?

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Robert]

I haven't tested for infection as she has never really got into house broken mode. She is crated at night for 8 hours or so and no accidents in crate. This morning took her out of crate waited 10 15 minutes outside thought I must have missed her going took her inside was making coffee turned away and she was weeing on mat!!!! If
I was home first three weeks I had and took her outside every half hour rewarded for good behaviour which worked perfect for other three pups I have had but not my little Bella.
Talked to vet today and they said try washing areas she uses with lemon....so i will try that and any other tips I get from here.
Cheers

[Robert]

And I tried the pads - she uses em sometimes most of the time not!!! Tonight there was one mark on floor so that's good- and it was little with grass next to it so could have been a regurgitation.
I think when she needs to go she just goes where she is _ today outside yesterday inside tomorrow who knows. Think she may just be a very very very naughty lite dog. But completely loveable!!!

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Robert,

you said you stayed home for the first 3 weeks and that you went outside with her every hour, rewarded the good behaviour and that this worked just fine with your previous pups. Did this work with Bella during these 3 weeks or did it not work then also? Did you get Bella straight from a litter or did you get her after a little while? (so she could have learned by then that peeing in the house was okay?)
Does she only pee in the house or does she poo also?

She is not a very naughty girl, she either has some medical issues or else she just hasn't grasped the concept yet...it's not something she deliberately does. Some pups take longer before they get good bladdercontrol then others, it can take sometimes even up to 10 months.

Bottomline, if it is not a medical issue, you will just have to start at zero again with training :) Take her out every hour, on a leash, and wait till she pee's/poo's. If she does, praise her extensively with a very high value treat, something she doesn't get at other occasions. Take her on a leash because she is a pup, she might be very distracted by all kinds of stuff she sees like a leaf moving, little bugs crawling, etc. And then, once back indoors, she remembers she has to pee :D So take her outside, keep her on a leash till she has pee'd/poo'd and take her preferably to the same spot every time, the smell of the previous times she went there will help her remember what she came to do there :) Going indoors when she hasn't done anything, is a no-no. You wait till she pee's, even if it takes 45 minutes :eek: Sorry ;)

Saskia :)

[Robert]

Thanks for the advice- I can do it on weekends but work keeps me away from home 12 hours a day.
Bella is straight from a litter and the three weeks most times were outside cause I was taking her out regularly but it has always seemed to be a case of i need to go I am here and that's where I will go. And it is both poo and wee - not all the time but bad days are a poo or two and three weed and good days are all clear
I will do your advice on the weekend but I guess without doing it during the week the message will take a long time to get throug
I have read the Maltese and shitzu can be hard to train and I think she is one of them. Just gotta be patient. I do need to take a week off in a couple of months cause my other dog chelle has luxsting patella and when operated on needs to be crated for a full week. I can't crate bellavduring the day cause her and chellecRecso close and would just hark all day.
Gonna be a long haul I think. She is worth it tho

[SasAndYunah]

Yes, with some it just takes more time and effort then with others :) It's probably the case that 12 hours, for a 7 month old, (and before that she was even younger) is just too long and so she pee's in the house. She doesn't see anything wrong with it, it's just what she does and has "learned" in a way.

The longer a certain behaviour exists, the harder it will be to get rid of it, you know this, right? :) If she has continued to pee in the house for almost 10 months orso (by the time you take that week off) it wil be very difficult to train her different. It might be an idea to see if you can find a good solution for the meantime, a puppywalker, daycare facility or even a good, thrustworthy neigbour or friend that could help you and Bella in the months to come.

And if that's not an option, I would definately start using peepads so that at least she has a fixed spot to go to during those 12 hours. But you would have to train to too for now...:) You can also restrain the space the dogs are in during the day, if you haven't already, for example the kitchen or any other space. This way you will at least limit the area in which she can pee and make the peepad training easier.

Good luck, be patient and don't fault her, she can't help it :)

Saskia :)

[Squirt's Mom]

I saw an ad for a crate that has two sections - one for sleeping and one for a potty area. The idea is to teach the pup to use the pad in the potty area VS their sleeping area. As the pup learns the distinction, supposedly you can open the potty side from then on and the pup will use that part of the crate even when roaming freely in the house. Let me see if I can find some info on it. I haven't used it nor do I know anyone who has, but it seemed interesting.

[Squirt's Mom]

Here ya go! The Potty Training Puppy Apartment - cute name, huh? Now if it just works! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQAazegMQg

[Robert]

The crate looks like a great idea.... If the lemon was down doesn't work I will see if I can buy one....thank you.

[lulusmom]

Hi Robert,

If you are going to be successful, it is very important that you eliminate any urine odor in the house. You'll need to find every spot and make sure that you saturate with an enzymatic urine stain and odor remover. I've never heard of lemon being effective and aside from bleaching out your carpet, I'm not sure I could afford enough lemons to do the job. Go get yourself a black light and a gallon of Simple Solution or Natures Miracle. Black lights are very inexpensive and you can find them at Walmart and Kmart. Petsmart, Petco and a lot of other pet food supply stores have both Simple Solution and Natures Miracle by the gallon. Once the sun goes down and the rooms are nice and dark, turn on the blacklight and start crawling around to find the pee or any fecal matter that may have remained after cleanup. Neither product will mold or mildew the carpet or pad so really saturate the spots so that it goes down deep into the carpet and padding. You don't really have to worry about blotting it up unless you don't want to get your socks wet. :D If you do blot it, let it set for a good half hour before blotting. The first time I did this, I was flabbergasted by the overwhelming evidence that my dogs and cats thought every room with carpet was their personal toilet. I had to go out and buy a few more gallons to finish the job. I'm a rescuer so I've had a revolving door of special needs dogs and cats. Even with diapers and washable waterproof hospital pads on hand, some of them are just tough nuts to crack. I think Bella is one of those nuts. :D

Glynda

[Robert]

Thanks glynda. Will go and get light and cleaner on Saturday and have a big clean Saturday night - floor is wood- that shouldn't make difference I guess.... How times have changed when I was a young fella would have been out on the town Saturday night not cleaning dog wee with a black light!!!!
And I think Bella is one of those toughies to crack but will get there. I must do a thread and introduce her- she is an amazing little dog (as they all are)
Oh and the lemon is just a lemon scented cleaner that supposedly will wrk as dogs don't like the citrus smell. Will do hat as well as the stuff you suggest.
Thank you glynda and everyone again

[molly muffin]

Well, you couldn't get better advice than from these three Robert. Sas has trained many dogs in her life and Glynda and Leslie are both foster/rescue mums, so have seen it all. I'd take any of their advice to heart.

One thought I know with my molly is that she needs to walk to get all the pee out, as in go several times. I've been told this is due to alpha behavior from being in amongst a group of dogs (she was from what I've been told from a litter with parents before I got her). But yet, their bladders are not big enough to hold for a super long time when they are younger, so 12 hours is probably way to much for her to hold even if she wants to. What about coming home during the day for potty breaks, or having someone come in and take her out every few hours?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Robert]

Hi sharlene good ideas but unfortunately I moved from one side of Canberra to the other to be close to my elderly parents and my friends live and work the other side of town and couldn't help with visits. I work an hour from where I live and can't either. There is a dog door for little Bella's use during the day to get kutside
I am going to get a blue light and do the big clean up this weekend and just persevere.
The last two days no messes at all when I come home but
You know what will be happening as I type this lol.
Must do a post and tell y'all the wonderful things about chelle and Bella. I'm blessed - have four dogs - 2 here now and 2 in spirit only now- and all have been amazing little creatures