Please, any advice appreciated - RIP Kayne

[molly muffin]

That is what Dr. Bruyette recommended and I believe him. So, if he said 2 days off pred then try 5mg Dex, that is what I'd do.
hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Jessicad]

Good thing you read that sharlene i thought he meant today but shortened it by saying stop the pred for 2day. Phewww he meant two days. Thanks again. Still waiting on the vet to call me bak

[Jessicad]

Hey im curious about Dr. B. you got a minute to tell me what you know about him? You mentioned he was a member on here as well?

[labblab]

Do bear in mind that Dr. Bruyette is suggesting 5 mg. of dexamethasone given intravenously or through an intramuscular injection -- not orally. From what he wrote, I don't know how soon you'd repeat the dosing. I guess the first question will be whether or not it seems to help.

I don't believe you would start up again with the prednisone during the same time you are treating with the dexamethasone since you would be risking overdosing with steroids.

Marianne

[Jessicad]

Marianne,
I didnt realize that. So either way i would have to bring him into the office.
I wonder how mich something like that cost.
Which ever one is faster is probly better for kayne. Im curious if the oral pill will be just as good or should i follow dr.b orders?

[labblab]

I'm hoping Tina will be able to stop back since she has had experience with oral, intravenous (IV), and intramuscular (IM) dexamethasone. Usually, IV or IM administration is more powerful/faster acting than oral administration. Some injectables are also longer lasting, although I don't know whether that is the case with dex. Also, I do not know whether the oral dosage strength would be the same as that for the liquid formulations. Sorry! :o

[goldengirl88]

I read some of your thread and what you are dealing with. I am so sorry this is happening to you. I pray for a miracle for your dear Kane. You have been given very good advice by the others, the only thing I will say is Dr. Bruyette is the best Dr. For your situation, and a wonderful man. He is the best of the best so you can take what he has told you as gospel. God Bless you I hope you get a miracle for your baby. Blessings
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

When I was loading Harley with Lysodren his vet gave me 2 syringes of dexamethasone, in place of pred. If I needed to use them they were to be injected just under the skin.

[Jessicad]

So them it must be a commonly used drug im just hoping no side effect. Thats good to know maybe they willnlet me bring them home and do them myself. Thanks for all the info.

[Jessicad]

The vet finally called back but it was a different vet because my vet is away. He said he would like to see the emails so i just forwarded them to him now. He said he will look it all over and check on dosage and stuff and if it looks good he will let me know tomorrow. He kept saying i just want you to be prepared that the symptoms of urination, pot belly, up at night are all going to come back asbif they were bad compared to what im dealing with right now. But he said he gets it its either this for quality of life or put him down.

[labblab]

When I was loading Harley with Lysodren his vet gave me 2 syringes of dexamethasone, in place of pred. If I needed to use them they were to be injected just under the skin.
Lori, I think the method you are describing is considered subcutaneous injection (SC) rather than intramuscular (IM). Depending on the volume of the medication and the speed with which you want it absorbed, the injection method does make a difference. So the vet would probably have to do a bit of training before sending a patient home to perform a proper IM injection on their own.

[Harley PoMMom]

Lori, I think the method you are describing is considered subcutaneous injection (SC) rather than intramuscular (IM). Depending on the volume of the medication and the speed with which you want it absorbed, the injection method does make a difference. So the vet would probably have to do a bit of training before sending a patient home to perform a proper IM injection on their own.

Yep, you are correct, she gave me the dex shots for subcutaneous injections. I didn't mean to imply that it was the same as an IM injection, sorry about that.

[goldengirl88]

Just checking in to see how your baby is doing today. I hope everything works out, and you get some improvement with the Dex. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Good morning everyone. Hope you are all enjoying your saturday. My vet had a chance to look everything over an he agreed to let Kayne try the Dex. He said 5mg is a heavy dose so hopefully we will see some kind of relief. ;) im a little worried about the high dose. Kayne is 58 pounds now anyone have any info on the dosing of Dex?

[labblab]

If it were me, I really would trust Dr. Bruyette's judgement on this one. Different doses of steroids are given depending on the condition being treated. How is your vet going to administer the dexamethasone?

Marianne

[Jessicad]

Hey Marianne,
I am actually not sure. Im wanting to do whatever is the fastest for he freaks at the vet. Im really hoping this works and while im there im wanting to get his bp checked as well unless you guys dont think at this point it is important?

[Tina]

Hi Jessica,
The dose of dexamethasone varies depending in the reason it is being prescribed, and the severity of the condition. I think the duration of treatment is a consideration also. It is my understanding that anti-inflammatory and especially immunosuppressive doses are usually higher than if it is given for other reasons.

Since dex is much more potent than prednisone, the dosage is measured in smaller increments. So a 5 mg dex dose is a good sized dose. But I imagine that Dr Bruyette is recommending this dose based on Kayne's weight and the severity of his condition. And I would think he is also considering the fact that the 30 mg dose of prednisone did not seem to help. Dr B is aware of Kayne's weight, correct?
I will need to do some research on the net to see if I can find recommended dosages of dex. But I would go with his recommendation, he is an expert.

Is your vet planning to give it IV or IM? IV is the fastest acting, of course. Dex is long acting, I believe it acts for up to 48 hrs or so, maybe even a bit longer. My Jasper gets his dose every other day, but again, it is at a low maintenance dose for treatment of Addison's disease. The dose for inflammation may need to be given more frequently even though it is long acting.

From Dr B's email, it sounded like he was recommending a one time dose to see if it made a difference for Kayne. And yes, whether it is given IV or IM, this would need to be given at the vet's office. I would guess that whether or not additional doses are recommended would depend on how he responds. Are you taking him in today?

[Jessicad]

Hey Tina,
I am actually waiting until Monday to take him in because he took pred yesterday so im not giving it to him today or tomorrow. Im pretty sure I stated kaynes weight in my email to Dr.B but I will look back to just make sure. I was thinking about shooting him a email but i dont want to keep bugging him.
Im really hoping this works. I am worried about side effects to I Hope he can tolerate it.
Last weight we had on kayne last week he was 58 pounds.
Do you mind me asking the cost of Dex that you pay?
Im hoping its not to heavy of a fee.
Im waiting on a email back from my regular vet to see if he will be giving it by IV or IM. Thanks for all your help.

[labblab]

Also, make sure Dr. Bruyette knows about the Calcinosis cutis, as well. Some of the side effects from the steroids Kayne may be able to handle more easily than others. From a comfort/quality of life standpoint, aggravating the Calcinosis may end up being an unacceptable trade-off. :o

[Jessicad]

Is the CC painful for dogs?
If not I much rather try to just deal with the cc using the DMSO.
Would the cc be enough of a reason not to use the dex?

[Tina]

I am sorry to admit that my vet receipts are a disorganized mess, so right now I am unable to locate the receipt to see what the IV dex cost the last time Jasper received it. It was not outrageous though, I do know that. He weighs about 25 lbs, so Kayne's dose would be higher based in his weight. Jasper's oral dex costs a little less than $1.00 per pill for 0.5 mg tablets.

Excellent point about the calcinosis cutis Marianne. That can be very difficult to manage. :(

[labblab]

If you haven't already mentioned the CC to Dr. Bruyette, I do believe I would shoot him another email and reconfirm with him whether he'd still recommend the Dex even though Kayne has CC. Right now, you are looking at balancing a lot of issues in the short run, and I really would trust Dr. Bruyette's opinion re: the relative risks. Unfortunately, CC that gets out of control can become painful. But Dr. Bruyette may feel that it would be worth the experiment to try the Dex at least once. Or perhaps due to the way that Dex is metabolized, it is not as big a worry as other forms of steroid. I just don't know, but I'm confident Dr. B can guide you with this.

[Jessicad]

Thank for all your help. I know all about horrible cc ill have to make a album si you guys can see how bad it really was. I did look back and I did mention the cc to Dr. B a couple times but I also just sent another email and I have my DMSO on hand. Hoping for a miracle. Ill create a album of kaynes cc and how it is now.

[Jessicad]

Dr. B wrote back already he said just treat the cc with the dmso and he didnt even comment on the weight change so im assuming that means no change not a problem.

[Tina]

Wow Jessica, I am so impressed that Dr Bruyette has responded to every one of your emails, much less this quickly! I would feel very reassured by that. He is very highly esteemed in the field. He actually was one of the instructors that my vet learned from while she was in vet school. I believe she said he taught her endocrinology class.

So we will need to look forward to Monday. I am praying that this will help your boy. How is he doing today?

[labblab]

Good job, Jessica!

[Jessicad]

Wow Tina, thats pretty cool.
I have nothing but nice things to say about him he has been very nice and helpful to me. Id like to do something for him. Any ideas? I watched kayne today very closely and there is absolutely no difference in behavior on and off the pred. Keeping my fingers crossed the dex will work he said the worst side effect is dark colored stool and vomiting. So im keeping my fingers crossed

[molly muffin]

We'll be crossing our fingers for you and Kayne too.

I have to agree. Dr. Bruyette has been very helpful to many.

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

You could make a donation to his research on Cushing's. He told me they always need funding. Glad to hear Kane is doing well on the meds. Hope he continues to improve. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hey Patti,
How do I go about locating the research funding for Dr.B? Is there a website?

[goldengirl88]

Not sure if there is an web site. The reason I am aware of it is because he happened to mention it to me.

[Tina]

Hi Jessica,
Just checking in to see how Kayne is doing today. I hope you both are hanging in there.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[Jessicad]

Hey Tina,
We are doing good day two of no pred. Hes been pretty lazy all day just resting hoping for good results tomorrow.
Thank you for asking.

[Tina]

I'm glad to see he is being lazy and is able to rest. Wasn't he quite restless, and pacing quite a bit before? I am hoping for the best tomorrow also. Do you know what time you are taking him?

[Jessicad]

Oh yea he normally paces all day long and gets stuck he hasnt got stuck once today and very little pacing
I emailed the vet friday because he said to and of course i still havent heard anything back so I will give them a call in the morning. Im wanting to get in right in the morning if i can i dont think theres a need for the vet im sure a tech can do it but i will keep ya posted. You know i will with my 100 posts a day lol

[Tina]

Ok, now I am wondering if maybe the 30 mg of pred was helping? Is today the 2nd day he hasn't had it? And how was he yesterday without it? I am trying to see when he started showing improvement in the symptoms. I am concerned how you will gauge if the IV Dex is helping if he is not showing the severe symptoms (pacing, getting stuck) at the time it is given.

And I would think that your vet should see Kayne to see how he is doing and evaluate him before giving the Dex and not just have a tech give it sight unseen. Especially since it is a pretty good sized dose.

[Jessicad]

Hey Tina,
Im starting to think as much as everyone in town talks so highly im starting to think hes a idiot. He tells me to email him never responds so i dont know maybe he will want to see kayne i guess i will have to wait until they call in the morning.
I dont think his neuro issues changed i mean hes still pacing and from the last post he got stuck a couple times i guess it just happens at different times of days.
His last dose of the pred was friday.
Actuallt as i am typing he is in the corner staring at the wall im thinking he just had lazy morning but the fun will begin soon. Lol

[Tina]

Checking in to let you know that I will be thinking of you today. I hope Kayne had a good night, and that the treatment today provides some relief of his symptoms. I will check in after work. Please keep us updated.

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

[addy]

Not sure if this helps, Zoe weighed in at about 17 pounds. When she was in ER and they thought she threw multiple blood clots and possibly had swelling of the brain, they tried 1.5 mgs of dex.

Hoping you have some good news today.

[goldengirl88]

How is Kane doing? Are you saying Dr. Bruyette did not return your emails? Hoping you heard back by now. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Good Morning Everyone,
I got a email from the vet today which i will copy and paste let me know what ya think.
I also have a appointment at 11 so hoping it goes well.
HI Jessica, I don't think the dose of dex will be a problem other than worsening the cushings symptoms. I would administer the medication IM to sustain the effects vs IV. I am also concerned on how long lived any benificial effects would last. The cortisone effects normally would last 48-72 hr.s. since not in a repository form. Oral medication would be needed to sustain benefits. We can talk more tommorow.

[goldengirl88]

Is this from Dr. Bruyette? It would seem this is a temporary fix which may worsen the Cushing's? When he says we will talk tomorrow will you email or by phone? It appears this has only temporary affects , were you aware of that up front? Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

This is actually a email from my regulare vet about what dr. B suggested. Im actually in the waiting room right now

[goldengirl88]

Let me know what you find out after your appointment is over. Good luck.
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hello everyone,
So the first thing they did was check kaynes bp which was very high every time. He wa concerned about giving him the dex with elevated bp because it could elevate it more. So i left kayne there hoping he will settle down and they can get a accurate reading. If in fact he does have high bp they will start his first dose of bp meds let it lower then do IM of the dex. Im hoping he calls with good news and im hoping this bill is not crazyyyyy lol

[goldengirl88]

So sorry about the blood pressure. Was it high every time it was taken? It is better to know as it must be treated so it does not adversely affect their kidneys. There are some others on here with high bp on meds.I get Tippers bp checked every Wednesday. She has only had a few high ones thank God. I hope he settles down and they get a good reading. It will all be ok so try not to worry. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Yea it was high every time sonim sure he has high bp. Makes me curious if the extremely high bp could be causing the neuro issues????

[Trish]

Hi Jessica

I know that when my dog's BP was high that he was definitely lethargic but not the neuro symptoms that Kayne is having, but they can have strokes if it gets too high. The BP med your vet was considering earlier was an ace inhibitor and that would also help Kayne's kidneys as I did notice his renal tests were high when you posted all his results earlier in the thread. So I could see the benefit in starting that. Hope you get some answers today, it is exhausting trying to get a plan in place that works for your baby

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I saw in your thread where you tried Lysodren or Trilostane with Kane? Is that correct? If so is he off of the meds? Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hey Patti,
Yes kayne is off the Lysodren he only used it for 5 days and off of the trilostane as well which he only used for 3 days. He did not do well on either medications.
I am still waiting for the vet to call I called them around 3 and he still wasn't ready I know they are open until 8pm tonight so Im sure it will be soon.
I hate him being away for this long.
Trish, I had no idea about his renal being high??? I actually don't even know what that means but I guess I will have to look into it.
I forgot what medication he said he would use for the bp if need be it started with a P. He went back and forth with two different meds but went with the one that started with a P. Shoot Im going to have to look into the name and let ya know again. Thanks for taking the time out to look over his test results. Im open to anyones opinion or if you see something that you think needs to be addressed please let me know. Thanks for everything!!!!

[Trish]

Ok i hope i am giving you all info needed.
1st urinalysis- protein 3 plus
Specific gravity-1.013 1.015 - 1.050
Wbc- 4-10 0 - 3 HPF

Urinalysis after antibiotic
Protein-2 plus

Urine protein/creat -3.4


Hi Jessica

These are urine sample results you posted on the first page, which is what I based the question about Kayne's kidneys on. Dogs are not meant to have protein in their urine, a few different things can cause that like UTI and sometimes renal issues. The urine protein/creatinine is 3.4 and is meant to be less than 0.5. Don't panic, my dogs got up to 3.8 and at the moment, with treatment is back to near normal.

I cannot see the blood BUN and creatinine in your results list, which could give us more information.

Generally if it goes over 2, then treatment of some form is recommended. I thought your vet had mentioned Benzapril at some stage? This is what my dog is on for his renal issues that were caused by high BP. There are other things like renal diet, fish oil that can help too. I have found when my dog is generally unwell with other issues his urine protein/creatinine test has gone up.

It would be worth asking his thoughts on kidney issues and how he interprets them in Kayne's case.

Hope that helps, sorry I did not mean to alarm you I thought this would have been addressed by your vet.

[Jessicad]

Hey Guys,
So kayne stayed all day at the vet from 11am to 6:30pm. His bp was up there 220, 202 but once given the meds it came down just a little 190, 186. He is now on benazepril half a tablet daily and they are 20mg tablets. Theysaid he did circles in his kennel had to change his blanket like 6 times because he kept knocking his water over. Right before we left he got the 5mg of dex. They checkedbhis heart rate was 96 which is normal. When we got home he was super paceing for about a hour fast and non stop im not sure eiter the IM shot of dex hurt or he was just stressed out about staying there. He finally just calmed down and is laying on his bed thank the lord. I guess the dex if it helps we will know tomorrow.fingers crossed

[Trish]

Glad he is home Jessica, I bet he is hyped from his stressful day, hope he settles down soon and you see some improvement with the Dex. fingers and paws crossed here for you!

[molly muffin]

awww Kayne sounds like he was stressed being there and then that just continued when he got home. Hopefully this will relieve the pressure and help him.
Crossing fingers that maybe you'll all have a quiet night. Poor guy, he has really tried so hard and has been so good through all of this. I really am hoping that this helps both of you.

Good catch by trish on the renal issue too. Something else to look into.

Hang in there
hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I hope Kane is doing well this morning. It sounds like he had a case of nerves from being caged in a strange place. Sometimes if there ate other animals there it can make them even more nervous. Tipper's blood pressure goes bonkers if there are other dogs in the vets yapping or crying. Hope today is better and that the meds help him. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

I bet it was a combination of things causing the pacing last nite. One, Kayne is already a tad bit confused and being in a strange place all day probably compounded the confusion. As others have said, the stress of staying there and the testing done and there is another factor. Plus the Dex may act a little bit like speed at first. So hopefully after he has been home and in familiar surroundings, and his body adjusts to the Dex, things will settle down.

I pray you and Kayne have a great day today!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jessicad]

Holy cow Leslie,
Speed, your not kidding he paced all night long and faster then normal. He wouldnt eat when he got home but you guys are all right he prob was all stressed out from staying at the vet all day because when i got up this morning he was starving ate like a champ. He is still pacing today but slower but I still think he is a little worked up.
And your right Patti every time a dog came in to the et and barked he would pant so that definitely added extra stress to it.
Ok, so the renal issue, i believe Triah said it was corrected by the bp meds??? Am i mistaken? So if kayne has a renal issue now that he is on bp meds will this fix it for him? How is this normally treated? Is this a huge problem?

[Jessicad]

Hey Trish,
Kaynes very first nloo panel he did have bacteria in his urine then was given antibiotic and another blood panel was given. Would that be the reason for the renal issue? Let me check my 2nd blood work results....

[molly muffin]

How is Kayne doing? Did the shots help? Let us know.

We have another dog with a macro, a boxer, who is also on prednisone to relieve pressure on the brain.

Thinking of you and Kayne,
hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

How are things going for you and Kayne? Hope all is well. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hey everyone,
I hope you are all doing well. Its been a while simce I been on here its been crazyyyyy.
Kayne is still hanging in there. The shot definitely helped. The pacing slowed down, He did not get stuck at all he seemed a little more alive and wanted to be outside. What stinks is it only lasted for about a week then the symptoms came back. Dr.B guided me to get another Dex shot which I did on Monday then take 1mg Dex orally and his exact word were if this does not help you need to stop. So here we are day 3 of this and hes ok not getting stuck pacing just a little but not nearly as bad as it was before the dex shots. I feel like this shot did not work as well as last time maybe he became a little more amune to it??? I don't know any more Im starting to feel selfish he lays around all day goes out occasionally, shakes a little. Am I keeping him alive with the dex I ask myself is it fair to him? He has some good days and some bad days. he still goes outside to use the bathroom, he still eats a lot but he looks horrible. Im sad to say I will have to make that decision soon which I am soooooo not looking forward to.
we made a ramp over the weekend for him to enjoy the yard which he goes down it and walks around but he don't get how to climb back up it.I hate this damn disease.
Sharlene, You said there is a boxer with a macro? Whats the name of the tread?

[Squirt's Mom]

Here are a couple of threads with pups who have macros -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6172

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5850

And a thread in the Everything Else section about macros where members have shared their experiences -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3567&highlight=Macroadenoma

[goldengirl88]

I am so sorry it has come down to this. I know your heart is broken, and wish in some way I could take away your pain. God Bless you both.
Patti

[molly muffin]

Oh good, Leslie posted the threads for you.

I know, I think you have to evaluate quality of life. Someone said recently that their vet said to make a list of what the dog always enjoyed and loved doing. When they weren't doing those things any longer, then that would be the time to make the decision.

Hopefully you can do something like that and come up with a gauge of what kind of life Kayne currently has.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Trixie]

Sorry for what you're going through..I'm sure Kayne feels your love.

Barbara

[Jessicad]

Thank You everyone,
Sadly I don't even have to make a list of what Kayne enjoys that he stopped doing because I think he has stopped them all.
He would chase squirrels and bark all day long. I haven't heard a bark or saw a tail wag in a very long time.
We had the talk tonight about how we are going to handle it.
A little part of me doesn't like leaving him at the vet afterwards for them to toss around and load into another vehicle to transport him to a place that does he cremation. We have the option to transport him ourselves after the euthanasia but that's very emotionally hard. I just don't know. I will have to make all the calls tomorrow to handle this all ahead of time. I just don't want to make the wrong decision. Its so crazy how your own emotions can be so blinding. I hate that everyone on here will have to go through something like this eventually. It truly is heartbreaking.

[Iraklis]

If he wants to still keep fighting...he'll let you know...
If not......


Here are a couple of threads with pups who have macros -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6172

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5850

And a thread in the Everything Else section about macros where members have shared their experiences -

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3567&highlight=Macroadenoma

The last link especially...I must devour the knowledge...

btw, Huskos' tumor was also a macroadenoma (25mm height ,17mm width , 21mm in rostro-caudal diameter,at the time of the MRI mid-November)

I knew of this site months before ,but mostly checked the vetoryl/treatments thread and few others...
Should have researched much more here...and surely sign up way earlier...
:(

[doxiesrock912]

I'm so sorry that you have to make this decision. It's heartbreaking. Hugs.

[molly muffin]

I know this is a very hard time for you. All I can say is that it is best to make the arrangements so that when the time does come you have a plan in place and won't have to make decisions at a time when your heart is hurting so much you can't think.
Sending you tons of love and hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

It is so hard to see them slowly fade, giving up all they used to enjoy. We are left to wonder when enough is enough. And that is not always an easy thing to see. I have no doubt whatsoever that you will make the right decision at the right time for your sweet boy. Kayne trusts you as do we. I know this - the incredible love you feel for Kayne will guide you correctly.

We are here for you, sweetie.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jessicad]

Thank You very much everyone it means soooooo much.
Ya know everyone says he will let me know when its time or when hes tired.
He is such a strong dog never complains of pain im scared he wont tell me.
I called this morning and made the arrangements. Geez was that hard.
We had a rough winter in nj and this coming up week we are finally in the 60's im looking forward to him enjoying some nice weather outside.
Thanks again everyone

[goldengirl88]

Your posts are heart breaking, and I can feel your pain. I am so sorry you are going thru this. I hope you are able to enjoy some quality time with Kane when the weather gets nicer. God Bless you both.
Patti

[Harley PoMMom]

I, too, am so sorry that you are going through this difficult time. My boy, Harley, loved two things in life, his frisbee and food. When he lost interest in both of them I knew it was his "time" which really did not make the "decision" easier.

You know Kayne best, and I am sure as Leslie mentioned, you'll make that "decision" at the right time.

Sending huge and loving hugs, Lori

[goldengirl88]

I am hoping that today is finding Kane doing better. Again I am sorry you are going thru this. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Thanks Again Patti and everyone,
Today is a yucky day for Kayne, He has some diarrhea which I'm sure is from the high dose of steroids upsetting his stomach.
I'm wondering if he is in pain???? He never acts as if he is but I wonder if he is or if he should be on some kind of pain meds.
I just don't know.I am worried about everything. A seizure is my worst fear because it is awful to watch on top of Dr. B said once he has a seizure it is time to definitely call it.
Im feeling ok feel like I had a little time to get myself ready for whats about to come but as you all know it is not easy and I read these threads on here and I see everyone with such hope just like I had but the reality of a fast growing Macro there is never a good outcome and I feel for all that are dealing with what I am. But this site is wonderfullllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll I don't know what I would do without it.so thankful for you all and your knowledge.

[molly muffin]

Macros are one of the hardest things to hear a dog has as there is so few options for them. The options that are available depend on so many outside factors that it can be quite daunting too.

Hang in there! I think you'd know if he were in some kind of pain, even for a dog with high pain tolerance. Their skin would ripple to the touch if there is a sore area, if there is brain pressure (headaches) then they don't want to do any large head movements, won't eat out of their bowls often, just keep their heads in one spot, etc.
I wouldn't add any meds that don't need to be added to the mix at this point.

hugs
sharlene and molly muffin

[Budsters Mom]

Sometimes hope and the support here is all we have, so we cling onto it for dear life. You are absolutely right my dear. When dealing with a fast-growing macro, there is never a good outcome. All we can really do is keep them comfortable for as long as possible and watch for their quality of life. Are they still able to do what makes them happy? Are they able to settle in to sleep at night? Do they whimper and cry as if in pain? Do they need pain meds. 24/7, just to remain comfortable. I thought about all these things and many more.

For me and my mighty lizard Hunter it was a very easy decision. Following through with that decision was the hard part. Many of us have been through this Jessica. It sucks big-time! It rips your heart out, but you do survive. No matter how prepared a person thinks they are, they never really are. It's dang hard no matter how (or when) you do it. Kayne knows that you are doing everything you can for him and he loves you for it. Xxxxxx


I read these threads on here and I see everyone with such hope just like I had but the reality of a fast growing Macro there is never a good outcome and I feel for all that are dealing with what I am.

[goldengirl88]

I was just wondering how Kane is today? I am praying for a miracle for you both. Blessings
Patti

[Squirt's Mom]

You don't walk in this Valley alone, honey. There are several of us here with babies on borrowed time. We know that any minute could be the last we share, could be the moment we must make "the decision". Whether we watch them decline from a macro, cancer, other conditions, or simply old age it is heart and gut wrenching.

I had occasion this morning to remember yet again my favorite quote. One of the most comforting parts is when he mentions the beauty of hard honesty. The time comes when we must see the reality, when we must face the truth that our babies are going to leave us. And we love them all the more for that fact. Every moment becomes a Blessed gift, a beautiful treasure to be stored away.

Whenever I read this passage, I am always reminded how Blessed I am, how Blessed you are, how Blessed every member here is because we are able to love these precious Souls when so many cannot fathom the depths of that love we carry. It's as if we have been given a second Heart. A Heart that does not pump blood but rather compassion, courage and hope. Yes, we are Blessed. Even as we walk through this Valley, our Souls raw with anguish, we are so very Blessed to feel that anguish.

Many hugs,
Leslie and the gang


From The Darkest Evening of the Year
By Dean Koontz

“Because God is never cruel, there is a reason for all things. We must know the pain of loss; because if we never knew it, we would have no compassion for others, and we would become monsters of self-regard, creatures of unalloyed self-interest. The terrible pain of loss teaches humility to our prideful kind, has the power to soften uncaring hearts, to make a better person of a good one.”

“Dog’s lives are short, too short, but you know that going in. You know the pain is coming, you’re going to lose a dog, and there’s going to be great anguish, so you live fully in the moment with (them), never fail to share (their) joy or delight in (their) innocence, because you can’t support the illusion that a dog can be your lifelong companion. There’s such beauty in the hard honesty of that, in accepting and giving love while always aware it comes with an unbearable price. Maybe loving dogs is a way we do penance for all the other illusions we allow ourselves and for the mistakes we make because of those illusions.”

[Jessicad]

God guys you know just what to say to make me feel better. Although I sit here and cry reading your post its always something I need to hear.
Theres no change with Kayne. He is the exact same which is good I guess because there is no decline. Hes still hanging in there.
Lately people have been coming over and making comments like oh man he looks horrible or oh my hes sooo skinny or he looks so sad or don't you think its time yet.
When people make these comments it really bothers me. They just don't get it. You fight and you fight and you try everything every medicine, trips back and forth to the vet and you just love them so much. I know they are right but I keep telling myself he will tell me when he is ready. I look and I look and Im yet to see that he has had enough. Sure he is lazy and not the dog he was and he don't bark and hes skinny and he don't get around as good as he did but if I say Kayne do you want to eat and he gets up and walks to me even though his tail isn't wagging and hasn't in a long time he is still getting up to eat.
I don't know I feel like I keep repeating myself on here at this point but it just feels good to just talk about it to people who are going through the same kind of situations and just get it. So far it has rained for the past two days which stinks but it melted all the snow finally. Next week all week is in high 50's low 60's. Im hoping to see kayne enjoying the weather outside.
Thanks again everyone and I hope you and all your pups are doing well.

[goldengirl88]

The weather is supposed to be great next week. That is good for you and for Kane. You can go out and both of you get some sun. It may make Kane feel better to get outside and smell some fresh air. This is such a hard journey we are on, but we have no other choice. Just keep venting on here, I know it helps to know others are going thru this too. Praying for you and Kane.
Patri

[Jessicad]

Hello everyone, hope you are all doing well and everyone is healthy. I haven't been on here often as you all know it is crazy and caring for a terminally ill dog is like having a newborn ontop of really having a newborn. Kayne is still hanging on in which I am super super surprised. After the last dex shot he did well up until the past three days same symptoms came back very confused, getting stuck. Dr. B recommended giving .5 more daily of the oral dex. It helped a little but not a lot. He is on 1.5mg oral dex dily right now which I am imagining is a lot for a dog. He is starting to become weak I notice his rear legs are getting weak he will bottom out once in a while and the look in his eye is starting to look more tired. Besides that he still goes out in the yard and walks circles and he still goes outside to use the bathroom and is still eating very well which makes the call ten times more difficult. Luckily the weather is finally nice here in NJ and he seems to enjoy pacing outside. I feel like he out lived what everyone expected. He still has never acted as if he was in pain and I am keeping him as comfy as possible and loving him and taking pictures while I can. I hope you are all doing well. Im hoping to get some free time to catch up on everyones threads. :)

[Squirt's Mom]

Kayne is so very lucky to have you as his mom, sweetie. I know without doubt he is right where he wants to be for now - next to you, under your tender touch.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[molly muffin]

So glad to hear from you. :)
I'm sure you are super busy with everything going on in your life these days.
Glad to hear that Kayne is still hanging in there. I agree being able to be outside is probably a big plus for him. :)

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Iraklis]

When people make these comments it really bothers me. They just don't get it. You fight and you fight and you try everything every medicine, trips back and forth to the vet and you just love them so much.

Don't let 'em people to your nerves...I did eventually and it was the downfall...!
Kayne feeds off your strength...I know he does!

Don't know what you are giving him or if you can afford anything else...but Omega-3 and Curcumin/Turmeric (both anti-inflammatory for the tumor), sam-e or liver guard capsules for the liver do help!

I also gave Artemix (artemisinin/artemether/artesunate) to my baby which i am pretty sure helped too. (I started him on Vetoryl again at the same time because Artemix supposedly works better with an aggressive tumor...should have used smaller dose ex.5-10mg to achieve that though).Almost sure if Artemix wasn't used ,Vetoryl would have caused the tumor to enlarge even further or cause Addisonian crisis (causes of him departing i think) way earlier than 1 1/2 month...

[goldengirl88]

You are doing a really good job managing all this. I know it is hard with a sick dog, but you are handling all this very well. I pray for a miracle for your dear Kane. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Hi, checking in to see how you and Kayne are doing. Hope all is well, or as well as can be.

hugs,
Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

I am also just checking in on Kane, and hope he is doing well. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hey guys,
Thanks so much for checking in on us.
Kayne is still hanging in there. He seems to be getting weaker. His rear legs are very weak he struggles getting up and standing to eat.
He is on 1.5mg of dexamethasone in which Im not sure if that is the max amount recommended for his weight but he seems to be getting stuck and pacing more then usual.
I was thinking about emailing Dr.B and asking if I should up the dose but I actually feel embarrassed. I feel like people frown upon keeping dogs in kaynes shape alive by medicine.
He is still eating very very well but he seems to be peeing inside now usually at night.
I am actually surprised he is still here now I know why they call Pit bulls fighting dogs.
Thanks again for checking in on me I hope you guys are all doing well to.

[Squirt's Mom]

Sweetheart, you don't need to feel embarrassed, not at all. You feel proud instead that you are willing to fight for every good day that boy can have. And I reckon Dr. B is pretty used to this group by now - and knows we are the rare pet parents who truly do care for our babies and who want to do the best we can by them. If you think a dose increase might help, write and ask him.

It is so good to hear from you! And to especially hear Kayne is doing as well as he is! Don't be gone so long...we worry, ya know. ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jessicad]

Thanks soooo much Leslie,
I emailed Dr. b he said not to raise his dose to stick with the 1.5mg daily and when his eating slows down or a witness a seizure then its time. The 1.5 mg worked well for a little while but He is definitely declining Im just thankful for the almost 11 years I had with him. His 11th Birthday is coming soon :)
And new threads on here I should check out about macros?

[goldengirl88]

Dr. Bruyette is the best, he is a good human being also, he will not judge you so don't worry about being embarrassed. You are doing what any one of us would do, trying to keep our babies with us. If he is not suffering I don't see any immediate need to do anything. We all live and breathe for our babies on here so we understand. The thoughts of losing your best friend are terrifying, I know how you are feeling. Don't be so hard on yourself, you are only human. God Bless you both
Patti

[molly muffin]

I'm glad that he is still with you and I hope he can make his 11th birthday. It's a testament to you and your diligence that he is still here.
No new macro threads right now. Dr. B is a wonder isn't he. :) We all like him and respect him a great deal.
hugs, hang in there
Sharlene and molly muffin

[molly muffin]

We have a member on facebook who just posted. Her dog was taken off vetroyl and has been putting on some herbs for brain tumor and the symptoms have improved to no pacing, no circling, coat improving. I've asked what herbs exactly her dog is on. Or check in on the facebook page.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Thinking of you and Kane. I wish things were different. God Bless you both
Patti

[Jessicad]

Anyone in the northern NJ area using a holistic vet they can recommend?
I am interested in Chinese herbs for it is the last thing I can try for my dog who has a pituitary macroadenoma.
I appreciate any info.
Thanks
Jessica & Kayne

[lulusmom]

Hi Jessica,

Try searching on the AHVMA website. I've provided a link to their search page below:

http://www.ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html

[Budsters Mom]

Big hugs for you and Kayne. I've been where you are now. You are not alone. I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this. :o

Kathy

[Jessicad]

Thanks guys,
This is a very hard place to be but we all get through it.
xoxoxo

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I am thinking of you and Kane, and praying the holistic approach will give Kane some help. God Bless you both.
Patti

[beaglemom3]

Anyone in the northern NJ area using a holistic vet they can recommend?
I am interested in Chinese herbs for it is the last thing I can try for my dog who has a pituitary macroadenoma.
I appreciate any info.
Thanks
Jessica & Kayne

Hi Jessica, I hope and pray you get good results with Chinese Herbal Meds. I see an integrated doctor at the Animal Medical Center In Manhattan Dr. Alvarez, she is very good and kind and caring and seems very knowledgeable in Chinese Herbal Meds but I did have 1 issue recently that angered me, it was about a dosage of a different concentration of the same herbal meds she prescribed, to be fair I was talking to her assistants not her, next time I will call her direct line and speak to her directly. but after having my boys sonogram taken today and hearing the results, I will overlook the mishap. and She did call me and apologize.

[Iraklis]

Hi Jessica!
How's Kayne doing?

Have you tried anything i suggested?
Having the help of a vet i imagine would be of great help too!
Hope all goes well!

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I am saying a prayer for you and Kane so I hope you get him the herbs and it helps. You are going that extra mile, and haven't given up so I support you in your efforts 100%. Blessings
Patti

[BulldogAnnie]

Hi Jessica! It's me Annie with Zoey :). Finally spent some time on the forum to get familiar. How is everything going? Was you vet able to speak with Dr. Wen to get the brain tumor herbs?

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I was just wondering how you and Kane are doing? I hope things are better and that you found a holistic vet. Did you know your regular vet can call and get a consultation with the Dr. that sells the Chinese herbs? I thought maybe that is an option if you can't find anything. Blessings
Patti

[molly muffin]

Annie this is definitely where to post to her.

Did you try sending her a message via facebook? That might be the fastest way to reach her. I haven't heard back from her yet either.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I am thinking about you and Kane, how are things going? I hope everything is alright. Blessings
Patti

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
I am worried as we have not heard from you. Please let us know how Kane is doing. Blessings
Patti

[Jessicad]

Hello Everyone,
I know I have not been real active on here but caring for a terminally ill dog is very time consuming.
I wanted to check in and let you all know that Kayne lost his battle on 6/28/2014.
It was the hardest decision I have ever had to make but I know in my heart he is no longer suffering.
This forum has a awesome group of people who I will forever be thankful for.
I have met some amazing people who helped me walk this terrible path. I was never alone and for that I will be forever thankful for all of you!
Thank You all again
I will keep all of you and your cush pups in my prayers!
Jessica

[labblab]

Dear Jessica,

I am so very sorry to learn of your loss, but also so grateful that you have come back to tell us what has happened. Kayne was such a dear, brave boy. And you have been such a devoted and loving mom. If there is any way at all that we can continue to support you, please let us know.

You will see that I have combined all your posts about Kayne in this one thread. This way, your entire journey together will always be easy to find, and we can all join together to honor Kayne in this one spot. In addition, his name will be entered on our special memorial thread where he will be surrounded by all our loved ones who are now joined together at Rainbow Bridge.

I send you many hugs today, and everyday, in honor and memory of your sweet boy.
Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Dear Jessica,

I am heart broken to hear about Kayne's passing but I also know you loved him as no other could and you did all you could to make each and every day the best it could be. Today your sweet boy is whole and strong once again. He is running in the Rainbow Fields with the wind blowing in his fur. And he is grateful to you for this gift.

Our deepest sympathies,
Leslie and the gang



THE EULOGY
Look not where I was
For I am not there
My spirit is free
I am everywhere

In the air that you breathe
In the sounds that you hear
Don't cry for me Mom
My spirit is near

I'll watch for you
From the other side
I'll be the one running
New friends by my side

Smile at my memory
Remember in your heart
This isn't the end
It's a brand new start

By: Carol Kufner

[Jessicad]

Thank You all very very much.
This was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. My friend tells me in time it will get easier and I certainly hope it does because this is hard.
Kayne fought and fought he would of never gave up it was just his body was quitting on him.
His neurological issues were serious he would pace and pace and get stuck all over the place it was a full time job following him around.
The last couple of days was very rough he would go o his food bowl where he wanted to eat but the initial opening of the mouth it seemed like his brain just couldn't tell his mouth to open. His rear legs got weaker and weaker everyday the night before was the worst night of all he stayed up pacing all night and I got up 3 times to find him bottomed out unable to get himself back up but he sure did try he tried so hard that his elbows and knees were raw. That night we also noticed a rattle a slight little cough in which the vet said was probly fluid in the lungs which scared the shit out of me. When I tried to lay him back down that night he would get comfy for no longer then a couple minutes then pop right back up fast almost like he got scared. I believe it was getting difficult for him to breathe for what ever was going on internally. If it was up to me I would of never been able to do anything about this I just do not handle death well so when I told my boyfriend to please handle it I wasn't thinking he would call me at 11am and tell me that he has to be there by 3pm but that is what he did. I must know in my heart that it was the right thing to do and the right time because as much as I didn't want him to go I let him go.
Kayne was a fighter he was never going to quit.
I miss him terribly and this horrible path that we were given with this horrible disease is terrible. Right now I am just going through everything that probly everyone goes through at the beginning of a death of a pet. You question the shit out of yourself.
I know kayne knows I love him and I did everything I could he was just dealt the worst card ever the damn macroadenoma. It only took 6 months to lose my dog. He went downhill soooo fast.
Thank You all for your kind words. I will forever be thinking of all of you. I hope I am able to help someone the way that this forum and all of you have helped me.
xoxoxoxoxo
jessica

[labblab]

Oh Jessica, so much of what you are describing was the same way it was with my boy Barkis at the end. We think he had a macroadenoma, too, and I will never forget how hard those last days were and how much it hurt to let him go.

I know we cannot change the things that happened nor the way you feel. But we are very good listeners and sometimes it can help just to talk. So please know that we are here and will remain here for you. So many people in our lives -- no matter how wonderful they otherwise may be -- do not understand this pain. But we do understand. So this will always be a safe place where you can come to talk and remember, OK? I will be watching for you.

Marianne

[goldengirl88]

Jessica:
My heart is breaking for you. I know how you loved Kane and I feared when we did not hear from you something was wrong. I know this disease is terrible and I pray someone somewhere finds out the cause and is able to stop others from this fate. I hope your have the strength to get yourself thru this. It is a long hard road to travel and in the end each of us knows in our heart it will end some day. The problem is you just never want it to get to that day, but are powerless to stop it. My life has been consumed by this disease and every day revolves around my Tipper, I count my blessings each and every day with her. I am so sorry yours and Kane's journey ended. You knew in your heart you had to help him cross over. Kane fought to the end, but now is no longer in pain and agony. You set him free and that is a very selfless act of love. Blessings
Patti

[beaglemom3]

My deepest heartfelt sympathies on your huge loss. You gave Kayne the greatest gift of all, he is now pain free.

I hope you find peace with Kayne's passing soon.

I will keep you in my prayers.
R.I.P Kayne..Fly with the Angels

[Woodydog]

I'm so sorry for you lose x

Run free Kayne

[My sweet Ginger]

Jessica, I'm so sorry for your loss of Kayne. My sincere condolences.

[BulldogAnnie]

Jessica.....email or here on the forum, you know how much my heart broke for you and Kayne. Saturday was the hardest day for me to face since the day I found out that Zoey has a macroadeonoma. I am glad we were able to support each other during this time and it was comforting to know I was not alone.

Kayne, run fast, run free!
Your body is no longer holding you back!!
Enjoy you time at the bridge, in what will feel like seconds to you but a lifetime to your Mommy, You will be reunited once again and I promise you, this time it will be forever. I can't wait to meet you when I get there!

Jessica - again, I am so deeply sorry.

[Budsters Mom]

Jessica,
I lost my Buddy to a macro on July 2nd of last year. I had to make that same heart-wrenching decision for Buddy that you have so selflessly made for Kayne. You are a very strong young woman.

Kayne has now joined our other fur angels at the rainbow bridge. Run free sweet Kayne run free.

It's too hard for me to say anymore right now Jessica. Please know that you and your sweet boy are in my thoughts and prayers.

[scoora]

Jessica,
I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of you sweet boy Kayne.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Hugs

[Jessicad]

Thank You all sooo very much!
Thank you for just taking the time to console me. means so damn much
thank you!

[molly muffin]

I was so very sorry to hear that Kayne lost his battle. Annie messaged me, but I didn't get a chance to update on your thread, as I've been out of town.

I just want you to know that you fought for and with Kayne every step of the way. That hard fought battle, gave Kayne an extra 6 months, that I don't think he would have had otherwise.

You are as so many others here are, an amazing person and great furbaby mummy.

Sending you tons of hugs and my sincerest condolences.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Jessicad]

Thank You sooooo much Sharlene and a extra special Thank You for guiding me to Annie.
Please all keep Zoey in your prayers for she is battling the same exact battle as Kayne :(
Thanks again

[Iraklis]

I am so sorry to read about this!
Every time i read about a pituitary macroadenoma i remember Husko and want it to end in a good way...

I am sure you did the right thing though and let him go as to not suffer anymore...


P.S. I have to ask though something because it reminds me of the last 2 days of Husko...did the vet say what causes the fluid build up in the lungs?