Taffy My JRT

[Lulu Bella]

Hello everyone I am new to the forum Brit ex pat residing in Canada Taffy my Jack Russell has just been diagnosed with cushings and diabetic I have joined for help advice and to see how everyone is coping it's been 4 weeks so far and her health seems pretty poor she is on 30mg of Vetoryl and 6 iu of Caninsulin insulin the first 2 weeks of this medication she seemed to be doing fine but things have changed after that even though she eats well her weight is half to what it was she has lost her spark and is always drinking water and panting I'm so heart broken I have done everything vet has told me put her on healthier food cut out treats and try to give her meds at right times For about 2/3 days it looks like she could be picking up we go for short walks Then after that she goes down again no energy in and out all day long she likes to just sit outside in the snow I think it's to cool down she whimpers in her basket I just think she may be uncomfortable she is also always licking the private area I am so worried I was told she also has an enlarged liver with crystal in the bladder I have a vet appointment Tues for blood test THank YOu EVeryone for listening

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to you and Taffy. I am sorry Taffy is having problems. I too have a JRT and in August she will have been on treatment for 2 years. It isn't always easy but it is manageable. Tipper does not have diabetes, and that does happen to some of the Cushing's Dogs. We will want to know what tests were done, and will want you to post the abnormal results along with the normal range given by the lab. We are always wanting to see the test numbers to see what is going on with your dog. We are here to help and support you, so you are no longer alone in this. We are here to help and listen, so please feel free to ask questions. You will learn more here than probably anywhere. It will get better, and your dog can live out it's natural life if you are vigilant, and careful about Taffy's treatment. Please tell us a little history on Taffy, weight, and all the symptoms that Taffy started with. Was the diabetes found and treated before the Cushing's? Normally they want the diabetes controlled before working on the Cushing's. It will be OK, we all come here scared to death, and crying. We all walk this path together. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi and Wecome,

We also have a sister site K9 Diabetes. It would be good for you to be active on both sites as they can really help you with the diabetes. Do you know if Taffy's diabetes is currenty controlled?

We woud also need to know any ACTH test resuts. If Taffy has been on Vetoryl for 4 weeks you should have had an ACTH test done durring this time to see were her cortisol is. Pease see if you can get a copy of that test and tell us the pre and post numbers.

Please also post her test results whe you have the ACTH test done again on Tuesday.

We have members managing both diseases and I am sure more will be along to say helo.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome to you and Taffy!

So sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but glad you found us. First let me provide you with a link to our sister site that deals with canine diabetes: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/ The wonderful and knowledgeable people there will help you and Taffy with the diabetes.

Was Taffy's diabetes found before the Cushing's diagnosis? It is usually recommended that the diabetes be under control before any tests are done for Cushing's. Here's a link to a informative article found on Dr Peterson's blog. A little FYI, Dr Peterson is a renown Cushing's expert who also is a contributor to Dechra's continuing education site: Q & A: Diagnosing Cushing's Disease in Dogs with Diabetes Mellitus (http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2012/01/q-diagnosing-cushings-disease-in-dogs.html) An excerpt from his blog:
The problem with diabetic dogs is that it's very difficult to make a diagnosis of Cushing's with certainty unless we see cutaneous changes. PU/PD, polyphagia, and high liver values all could be secondary to the diabetes. False-positive test results on a LDDST are very common in dogs with nonadrenal illness, such as diabetes (1-3).

Regarding the licking of her private area, it could be she has an UTI or some kind of yeast infection. What did the vet say is the plan regarding the crystals that were found?

I am sorry for all these questions but the more we know about Taffy the better our feedback can be, ok? Please know you are not alone on this journey as we are here to help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome from me too. :) I'm also in Canada.

You will definitely want to keep copies of all lab test results. Just ask your vet for copies and start your own file. Are you seeing an internal medicine specialist also? Just curious, sometimes that helps to get an more advanced opinion on options.

One thing I will mention is that Dr. Peterson, whom Lori quoted above, also advises that if treating cushings with diabetes, then you need to do a split dose, not once a day. So, instead of 30mg once per day, you'd want to give 15mg, which you could do with 10mg vetroyl and 5mg compounded trilostane.

How much does Taffy weigh? Because the starting dose should be at around 1mg/1lb.

And as the others asked, do you have the results of the latest lab reports to include the ACTH testing. That is important.

so glad you found us
Sharlene and Molly muffin

[Lulu Bella]

Thanks to you all for great replies

I will ask on Tuesday for copies of all lab tests
The ATCH has been done Diabetic and Cushing's were Found and Treated At Same Time
As for the crystals in bladder I have not been told what would be done about that Vet was more concerned getting the right dose of insulin it started a 5u then after the test they told me to up it to 6u
Trilostane has not been mentioned I was also told the Cushing's should be seen to first and Diabetes second and am beginning to believe that one hand don't know what the other hand is doing each visit I get a different Vet and they do not say the same thing
Taffy started on 30mg of the Vetroyl Starting weight was 21.1b when I first took her in to vet she had dropped 2.1b of that then after starting the meds she has now lost more weight coming in at just under 17.1b that was last weigh in 2 weeks ago
I will see if she has dropped more on Tuesday she is looking very thin even though she is eating well and begging a lot something she did not do before also her hair did not grow back and is getting thinner she is a rough coat long hair this time of year the long hair is usually thriving but there is no sign of that
I will keep you all posted as I can not thank you all enough for your help my heart is feeling a little lighter already ~~ Thank You All Very Much~

[goldengirl88]

Hi:
I just wanted to say for Taffy's weight I would ask the vet why she was not started on 20mg vetoryl, instead of the 30 to start off with??? Dechra says 1mg per lb to start. The lower you start the safer your dog will be. If it were me I would want the 20mg for now and no higher. I would also want one vet handling this, and one that has experience with Cushing's, as not all do and some are clueless. Never put blind faith in anyone, including a vet. Just watch your dog for signs of Addisons, lethargy,vomiting,diarrhea if you see any signs stop the Vetoryl. Were you given a rescue dose of prednisone? You need to have it on hand if you need it, hopefully you won't. I hope both you and Taffy have a good weekend. Blessings
Participant

[doxiesrock912]

Lulu Bella,
yes please ask the vet to start lower. It is much safer to do that and increase as needed.

[Lulu Bella]

Thanks everyone I will discuss changing dose of Vetoryl on Tuesday I am thinking she may be needing a lower dose to also what can be done if anything of the crystals in bladder and if I can be allocated just one vet I am not sure I will be successful with that as I think it's who happens to be working that day my husband wants me to change vets but I am worried about doing that A new vet plus transfer of all paperwork and a new understanding about TAffy we have been going to this vet for a few years anyway guys and gals thanks for your support it's greatly appreciated x

[Harley PoMMom]

Regarding the crystals in the bladder, an ultrasound or X-ray should be done to see what size they are because if the crystals are small enough they can be passed in the urine.

The formation of the crystals needs to be known in order for a treatment plan. Usually they are either struvite and/or oxalate, which are addressed differently. Struvite can sometimes be dissolved by feeding specific diets, oxalate can not as surgery is the general path of removing oxalate stones. My Bear had to have two surgeries to have oxalate stones removed, he was also given potassium citrate as it helps create alkaline urine (in which calcium oxalate stones have difficulty forming). For both struvite and oxalate it is important that the dog drinks plenty of water.

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

As others have mentioned, we are always concerned when a cushing's diagnosis is confirmed before diabetes is controlled. I highly recommend that you join our sister site, www.k9diabetes.com. Members there are awesome and will help you every step of the way. We're pretty awesome too :D and will coordinate our efforts with the folks at k9diabetes.

Since Taffy continues to lose weight and is still drinking a lot, it sounds as though the diabetes is not controlled. When is the last time your vet checked her blood glucose? Have you advised your vet that Taffy is still symptomatic. If not, I recommend that you not wait until your next appointment to do so.

Aside from the acth stim test that was done, did your vet do any other tests to confirm a cushing's diagnosis? Many of the blood abnormalities and symptoms overlap in cushing's and diabetes and uncontrolled diabetes will cause false positive results on all of the diagnostics for cushing's. Those tests would be the acth stim test, low dose dex test and UC:CR. Besides increase in drinking and peeing and weight loss, what other symptoms did Taffy have that made your vet think she had cushing's as well as diabetes. Cushing's is probably the most difficult disease to diagnose as all of the diagnostic tests can be influenced by nonadrenal illness. That makes it the most misdiagnosed canine disease and a cushing's diagnosis that is confirmed in an uncontrolled diabetic dog should be questioned.

I'm sorry for the reasons that brought you here but I'm glad you found us. Please join at k9diabetes.com so that you will have the best of both worlds to help educate you so that you can be an excellent advocate for Taffy.

Glynda

[Lulu Bella]

Hi everyone returned from vet yesterday got to wait for all copies of Taffy paperwork I was told that there was no need to change dose of TAffy Vetoryl as each dog is different I have got to make another appointment to discuss this and the crystal in urine with the vet that was not there yesterday she had blood tests done so I await the results of that I mentioned I was concerned about her weight loss she has lost another 2.1b weighing in now at 14.1b it's a big loss from 21.1b I am hoping to get this all right in the end so she is comfortable in her last years I am not happy with the lacks a daisy approach the vets are giving me but what can I do except have faith in the pro thank you to all for taking time out to reply :)

[goldengirl88]

Tell your vet we understand each dog is different, but also know that this dose is a high starting dose. If this were my dog I would be looking for an experienced vet some where else. I started Tipper on 10 mg. and went to the park across from the vets and waited for hours to make sure nothing happened to her. These are powerfulmdrugs that you cannot be too cautious with. If I were you In would be calling Dechra thyr have people there to guide you on what is correct..When itcomes to my dog there is nno such thing as being cautious. Blessings
Patti

[Lulu Bella]

Hi there my vet has told me 30mg of the Vetroyl is suitable for Taffy all dogs are different I was told it's getting in sinc with the Diabetes is her problem it seems I have now upped the insulin from 6iu to 7u and she will get more tests and x ray next week so that is the focus of Vet right now I would maybe ask if She could be given something to stop her being stressed specially at night I am up and down letting her outside thinking she wants to do her business but she just wants to sleep in the snow I don't understand why she now prefers to sleep outside in the cold it's very strange I'm thinking she maybe over heated but what causes that I do not know ?Thank You Everyone For the Productive comments and Help Greatly Appreciated

[Squirt's Mom]

Yes, all dogs are different but some vets are too arrogant to listen, too. ;)

[lulusmom]

Since Taffy continues to lose weight and is still drinking a lot, it sounds as though the diabetes is not controlled. When is the lst time you or your vet checked Taffy's blood sugar? Besides increase in drinking and peeing and weight loss, what other symptoms did Taffy have that made your vet think she had cushing's as well as diabetes or was it simply that he felt Taffy was insulin resistant?

Have you joined k9diabetes.com yet? If insulin resistance is why your vet tested for cushing's, the folks at k9diabetes can really help you understand insulin resistance, and I believe that in most cases, it has nothing to with cushings. We'll all be looking forward to the test results once you get copies. Did the vet give you a time frame as to when you might be able to expect them?