Severe Calcinosis Cutis - desperate! Have you had any luck?

[Bogiesmommy]

Bogie was definitively diagnosed with Cushings at which time a single quarter sized patch of CC had manifested in a spot between his "sholder blades" He has been undergoing treatment for cushings with a board certified internist since Jan 22 and has since had his levels rechecked to confirm his dosage of Trilostane is appropriate - it is. As a preventive measure against his CC sores becoming infected he is also now on antibiotics. While that's great, his CC has just been spreading like mad up and down his backside, neck, and now beginning at the front of his ears. It oozes a great deal. Hard crusty patches then form, and if dislodged, reveal open, raw "gooey" sores. Hair comes off with some of these crusty, gooey chunks. It's awful and smells. I bath him in a medicated shampoo given to me by the vet. We took him to UC Davis last Tuesday. They took a biopsy just in case there was a better antibiotic they might be able to prescribe. We are still waiting to hear back. I've searched and searched the internet for human or canine sources of relief and/or treatments and they are just not out there. Many just state that beyond caring for the underlying cause, nothing can be done short of the baths. I've seen a list of suggestions, but nothing definitive. If you have tried something and it either worked or DID NOT WORK - I would be grateful to hear about it.
Many thanks,
Nancy

[jrepac]

It's really tough when it's severe...you may want to try a little bit of milk of magnesia...shake it up and apply gently to the sores/affected area.

[molly muffin]

Hello Nancy and welcome to the forum.

We are sure seeing a lot of dogs lately with cc. Absolutely one of the most horrid side effects of cushings.
Dawn's dog Butter has one of the worst cases, you can see her thread here:
http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/98066424/file.html

One of the things that Davis gave her was the trizchlor spray, along with the medicated shampoo.
I know she also has used tea compresses, like a camomile to sooth the skin and then put onsies on to keep them from being scratched at.

You didn't mention what the current ACTH level is at, but you want that post number down below 9 and with cc, it might even have to go down to under 5 to get it under control.
Everyone says that it will get worse before it gets better.
Addy, one of our moderators has used ketochlor shampoo.
Renee is currently battling the same problem. Her thread is here:
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5908&page=18http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5908&page=18
There are quite a few others also.

Many of our members will be by to say hello and share in their experiences with the dreaded cc. They can tell you what has worked for them and what has not.

Welcome to the forum.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Nancy, and welcome to you and Bogie!

Sharlene has gotten you off to a really good start. That dreaded calcinosis cutis can be a bugger to get under control. As Sharlene has mentioned we have quite a few members with dogs that have CC and I am sure they will be along shortly to share their advice.

DMSO is one medicine I have seen members use on their dogs that have CC. Here's a link to an article which discusses medications that can be used for CC: Dermatology Challege: Severe facial pruritus in a Boston terrier (http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=659278&sk=&pageID=3)

I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here but so glad you found us. Please do not hesitate to ask all the questions you want, and remember we are here to help in any way we can.

Hugs, Lori

[Renee]

Ugh, the dreaded CC.

I have been battling the dreaded CC since November of last year for my girl pug. If you check out my photo album, I have some good pictures for you to look at. From your description, it sounds like the CC lesions are in the beginning stages, and yes, they are quite raw / oozy and painful. :(

There really is no 'cure' other than to get the cortisol low enough, for a long enough period, and just work through them. They say it gets worse before it gets better, and that is absolutely true. I think Dawn has had really good success with the trizchlor spray. I personally did not use any medicated shampoos or do any bathing until just recently. I did not want the sores to get any more moist than they were. I did do the tea compresses like Dawn suggested though, and I think those brought some relief. I also administered tramadol when they were most painful. It really is a process that must be worked through. My girl is finally showing some improvement, as they are past the very raw / open stage for the most part and drying up. Of course, I groomed her yesterday for the first time, and it opened up some of the newer ones. Her sores stretch from the top of her neck down to a few inches above her tail. She has longer/thicker hair than a boston or a boxer, so you cannot see her lesions except where I clipped the hair back. Take a look at Dawn's Butters. Her CC is possibly the most extensive ever seen.

We tried DMSO, and it was useless. Also, it smelled horrific and I could not use it more than a few weeks.

You don't say what the actual results of the ACTH are, or the dosage of trilostane. That would be very useful information for us, if you could gather it up and post it.

[Dawn Anderson]

Oh Nancy I so feel your pain, CC is rough, once the damage has occured it has to go through it cycles. The damaged started long before you could see it and once the cycle starts its like a wild fire out of control. Be patient, I understand how hard it is to watch the progression of it and feel that your hand are tied. Once you get the hormones under control it will slowly ever so slowly stop creating new lesions, and the healing will once again slowly ever so slowly start. I use the spay that was mentioned and as.for bathing which I rarely do now I used Dr. Good pet organic. The drier you keep the lesions the better, but should your baby scratch and tear them open use a cold wet compress, you can use green tea or chamomile or both if you don't have plan old cold.water will work, first layer the wet compress then cover with a towel and then place an ice pack on top of the towel. This will cool the skin down (because the area burns like heck from scratching) and reduce inflammation , about 20 should do it and then if in a area the he can not lick.apply the ointment Davis gave you (hope they gave you something) it they didn't and you are in a pinch then good old neosporin can help, I keep a.box of hibistat handy should Butter scratch to clean the areas, you can find it at walgreens.

Hope this helps.

Good to hear you made it to Davis. Who is you IMS/ vet there?

Keep us posted with what Davis has to say.

Lots of hugs
Dawn and Buttercup

[Bogiesmommy]

If I'm reading his ACTH results correctly it's at 4.0. He takes Trilostane 30mg 1x in morning with food.
Heard back from UC Davis about biopsy of CC. it just confirmed he's on a antibiotic that works for it already. Alas. They are sending me the same spray mentioned in this thread. I am being very very carefulto gently towel Bogie down then keep him in a warm room until he is well dry after each bath. The UCD vet is also sending me a medicated conditioner to use after the shampoo to possibly help soften the really stiff crusty patches.
<<sigh>> I get it now. What CC was in play up to whenever things start to turn around systemically from starting on the Trilostane must work its way through his system. That's why it gets worse before it gets better. Nothing to do but cope with it.
BTW - he kind of does a weird half sneeze a lot these days. Odd.
For what it's worth he has also been diagnosed with a mild heart murmer and slightly elevated blood pressure for which he is taking 1.25mg of Amlodipine 1x per day.
Thanks so much to everyone who weighed in and offered encouragement and understanding. It's so kind of you. Thank you.
Nancy

[Harley PoMMom]

The ACTH stim results should have two numbers; 1st a pre/baseline number and 2nd is the post number.

[molly muffin]

So if his post ACTH number is 4.0, on the 30mg, then you're really right where you want to be with the cortisol. Hopefully the cc will clear up eventually and it sounds like Davis has got you on some good products. It just takes time.
It's nice though to have a forum with others going through the same thing too. We have another boxer on here too, with cc. So, it's a good support system to have and compare notes of whats working and what isn't.
Don't worry about asking anything at all. :)

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Dawn Anderson]

Your very welcome Nancy, that is what we do here. By the way what's the name of your Vet at Davis?

Dawn and Butters

[pansywags]

Bogie is adorable! I hope he gets some relief.

I suspect my boxer has calcinosis cutis, although I have not had a biopsy done and the IMS we saw locally won't respond to my question about whether she thinks it looks like calcinosis. Dawn, is the Trizchlor used instead of a medicated bath?

[Dawn Anderson]

Just popping in to see how ya all are doing.

Dawn and Butters

[Bogiesmommy]

Hi Dawn and everyone,
Bogie is hanging in there. He hasn't started full blown scratching, but does scrape himself along the bed or couch. He alarmed us yesterday by drawing blood from a place on his neck he scratched with back paw. I've received the Triz spray and an ointment for the really nasty cracking places. <<sigh>> it's just soooooo emotionally draining to watch it continue to spread. One day at a time. I will keep you all posted on changes good and bad.
Nancy

[Renee]

The sores are very susceptible to cracking open and bleeding in the beginning. Tobey never scratched hers, but they still managed to crack open.

[Bogiesmommy]

Hi Dawn,
Just saw your question.
Dr. Caitlin Contreary at UCD is a dermatologist.
I will phone her tomorrow to check in. Bogie is terribly uncomfortable, shakes often and tonight won't even drop his head to the floor when he lays down. We think it's because the crusty patches on his neck are pulling open...think of a cracked lip. Ouch! Today he yelped when I touched one a little too roughly. I just broke down and cried my eyes out. This is so, so hard to cope with.
Good-ish news is we are pretty sure he is shaking because he chills easily - not due to pain - but I am keeping a very close eye on him.
I gave him an antihistamine after his bath while drying him today and he slept for a while. He went for a walk...but as usual...pooped out quickly. I want to get through this...but it's really hard wondering if he is pain and seeing him so miserable. There is a line down his spine of new lesions....gawd....will it ever end!
Nancy

[doxiesrock912]

Nancy,

awwww:( Poor Bogie. I hope that he gets relief soon. I would cry too.

[Dawn Anderson]

Maaann I really hate the CC, Butters is on tramidol for pain/discomfort. You know your baby best, and if bogie is uncomfortable tell his vets about the yelping and lesions on neck keeping him from relaxing and have one of them get him a rx for it. Any type of physical stress can and will increase that nasty nasty hormone. So comfort is of the utmost importance for our cush pups.
Are you working with an IMS at Davis also? How is Bogies hormone level? I know just what you are going through, I still weep at times, I am reminded every minute of every day when ever I look at her that this is our reality and its not just a bad dream. As time goes on you to will adjust as Bogie has been adjusting to his new body and its limitations. Your doing a great job and hang in there, he needs mommie to be strong and speak loudly for him.

Dawn and Butters

[Bogiesmommy]

Thank you for the understanding and empathy. I will definitely be asking for an appropriate pain med tomorrow. His vet is a board certified internist, that is local. Davis would be too far for regular visits. His most recent level was 4.0.
How long has Butters been having to deal with CC ? Has it gotten better? What does "better" even look like? How long was it before things started to improve?

[Renee]

My Tobey has CC too, and for quite a while it was just horrific to look at. And so painful. Her's has stayed localized to her back / spine area. I can just imagine how heartbreaking it is for poor Bogie to not even be able to rest his head. I used tramadol too, when Tobey's were very painful, and I think this helped a lot.

With Bogie's cortisol at 4, I think you in the perfect range to get the CC under control. It does get worse before getting better. Everyone told me that too, and it was a small comfort, but I have found it to be true, and I am finally on the other side of it. We have a few steps backward every now and then, but for the most part, Tobey's CC has shown quite a bit of improvement. In my opinion, the healing starts when the lesions finally start to dry out and not crack open / bleed so much. A little bit of hair may start to grow in as well. We don't have any pink skin the way Butter's does, but the lesions are not nearly as hard and thick like they were. They are quite flaky and dry.

Tobey's first CC lesion showed up in November. Treatment started in December, and a noticeable improvement in her CC happened about 3 weeks ago. Looking back, I actually think that's pretty good! Of course, now that her CC is on the mend, most of her hair is falling out. But, like Dawn said, it's just the cycle, so I am waiting it out.

[Bogiesmommy]

Renee, thank you! I just needed to hear that someone has seen improvement from the stage we are in now....smelly, raw, oozing patches all over the back of his neck and in spots down his spine and beside it. My husband and I suffer so much to watch him suffer ...if it goes on for months we will have to consider putting him down. It will be 28 days since he started cushings treatment tomorrow. We need to see some improvement with the CC now and soon or we just won't be able to handle watching him suffer like this.
If there are any others out there reading this who can report seeing recovery from CC and the time frames I would be most grateful. thanks to everyone for being there!
Nancy

[doxiesrock912]

Nancy,
Can you attach a small pillow to his bed so that he can rest his head up high without bending his neck? Or make a small stand with a pillow on it to put next to where he sleeps? A large enough stuffed toy might work too.

[Bogiesmommy]

Yes. I've been doing that and have raised his food bowl too. The worst seems to have subsided for the moment in his neck area. He's not bobbing his head or keeping it up as much

[Renee]

One other thing I forgot to mention is that we did a course of abx for 2 weeks, and that really helped clear up some of the oozing. Those sores can get infected easily, and while the abx won't cure the CC, it can help them in terms of clearing up.

[Arizona Boston]

Hi Nancy,
Sorry its taken me so long to chime in. Yes…my Boston Lucy's CC has gotten so much better we are still in awe of her progress.
Our year long journey started with a single chunky bump on her neck about the time she got her diagnosis of Cushings. She was on Vetoryl for about a year and during that time the CC got worse and worse until finally she had a large ( about 1 1/2 in in diameter ) area that she apparently scratched … it was bloody and looked like she had been attacked in a dog fight. We made three changes all at the same time, so I can't say for sure what make the difference.
1) We switched from Vetoryl to Lysodren
2) She started on a new antibiotic and was on it for a month (Simplex)
3) She started a new shampoo, Sebolux
Within a few weeks we saw a difference and within a month we were seeing bald spots grow hair and less and less new outbreaks of CC. It disappeared the same route it started…along her spine and neck cleared up first and gradually the smaller bumps down along her sides disappeared.
I should elaborate on point #1…I'm not saying Vetoryl is no good…but we never got her ACTH low enough with it. Possibly if we had upped her dose from 40 to 60mg we could have achieved the same results.

You are lucky you've got the top docs working for you and Bogie. I hope you get it cleared up soon. (I'll bump up Lucy's thread so you can look at pics)
Shelly and Lucy

[Nichole]

My dog, Ralphie, has CC too. I added a few new photos. http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=839&pictureid=6240

I'm curious what the progression of getting better looks like. I've got some early pictures where it starts coming up from under the skin and it is just pink, then it gets hard and crusty. It's got black stuff that comes and goes, but I don't really know what it is.

He had an infection and I had him on an antibiotic, which seemed to stop the progression altogether. Now, they've diagnosed an antibiotic resistant staph infection. They want to put him on a stronger antibiotic that they say he'll be on for a long time. I've been reading a lot about Manuka honey's ability to fight antibiotic resistant infections. I bought some high powered manuka honey to try it out. It's only been 24 hours. The moisture from the honey makes his spots bring red rather than sorta grey and crusty. Everyone says the moisture is bad, but why?

His, luckily, haven't bothered him too much. They don't crack or bleed or burst open. Does anyone have pictures of the progression from bad to better?

[Dawn Anderson]

Sorry it took so long to get back to ya. Butters CC is know almost 16 weeks old, it still looks really bad, she had very few issues with ruptures and oozing, her issue was how itchy it was making her and she would scratch which of course would rip it open and bleed like mad.

Please don't through the towel in because you guys are having such a hard time emotionally with the CC, it just takes time to go through the cycles and since it looks like you are getting the hormones in check then the healing can begin. I too for months have been searching for before during and after CC picks I even created a thread about it, and have yet to get any good feed backs or links on just this subject and the internet has not been much help either.

From our families experience with CC, the key has been to get the hormone level in ck and keep Butters as pain free as possible so that she is not under any additional stress, stress will cause them to produce cortisol and keep infections at bay and keep her skin as dry as possible, she has been on trilo for 2 weeks now and is being tested right know. (She under went radiation the last week of Nov. and had to wait this long to start the trilo).

It is like a burn victims skin , it takes time, lots of time!

Hang in there , remember many of us here are going through the same thing and have had the same emotional battles that your family is going through.Please remember you are not alone and the CC family will be right here for your family.

[Nichole]

It sounds like everyone does something different for their case of CC. My pup's CC was infected and I used really powerful manuka honey to get rid of the infection. That stuff is amazing. It is dry now, but I'm not convinced that is the most comfortable for him. He's so itchy. We've been lucky that Ralphie's CC hasn't not been too oozy and doesn't really break open and bleed. I've been using castor oil packs once a day to keep things a little moist and I think he is more comfortable. He's such a tough guy - it is hard to tell. The castor oil has all sorts of positive natural effects, so I'm hoping it brings some relief.

[Arizona Boston]

I think in regards to dry vs wet…its kind of like acne. Some people say dry it out and some people say keep it soft. Trial and error I guess.
Shelly

[Dawn Anderson]

Your are absolutly correct arizona, trail and error, different stages of CC call for different treatments.

[lola's mom]

My dog, Ralphie, has CC too. I added a few new photos. http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=839&pictureid=6240

I'm curious what the progression of getting better looks like. I've got some early pictures where it starts coming up from under the skin and it is just pink, then it gets hard and crusty. It's got black stuff that comes and goes, but I don't really know what it is.

He had an infection and I had him on an antibiotic, which seemed to stop the progression altogether. Now, they've diagnosed an antibiotic resistant staph infection. They want to put him on a stronger antibiotic that they say he'll be on for a long time. I've been reading a lot about Manuka honey's ability to fight antibiotic resistant infections. I bought some high powered manuka honey to try it out. It's only been 24 hours. The moisture from the honey makes his spots bring red rather than sorta grey and crusty. Everyone says the moisture is bad, but why?

His, luckily, haven't bothered him too much. They don't crack or bleed or burst open. Does anyone have pictures of the progression from bad to better?
Hi Everyone,

I'd like to second Nichole's request - can anyone post pix showing what CC looks like as it begins to heal?

Thank you!
Lola's mom

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to second Nichole's request - can anyone post pix showing what CC looks like as it begins to heal?

Thank you!
Lola's mom

Dawn has album on Buttercup with various stages of CC, here's a link to that album: Battleing Cushing's (http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/album.php?albumid=786)

[lola's mom]

Thank you so much! It's a bit hard to tell what stage is what, but comforting to see nonetheless.

I'll be posting pictures of my Lola's horrid CC along with an update / dilemma on my thread shortly!
http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6259&page=8

[goldengirl88]

If you have a cold laser therapist near you they use it to heal skin issues and it is not real expensive.

[Renee]

If you have a cold laser therapist near you they use it to heal skin issues and it is not real expensive.

Patti - you suggest the cold laser therapy quite often. Do you have any research documenting its use in healing CC?

[goldengirl88]

There is a lot written about it online, and my laser therapist said it is wonderful for skin problems. All it does is energize the cells and bring them back to life so to speak and that is what promotes the healing. It makes the cells super charged and they start working in places that they had not been. It will make them tired for the first couple sessions as all that energy is working on them.