question on first testing - Vetoryl or Lysodren?

[mb935]

He wants 1/4 of a lysodren pill twice a week starting on Wednesday and pred started tonight (i was waiting for replies here) first.

And yes she has hae zero meds for a month.

He did say i cuuld give her nothing for awile and test later based on her drinking etc sigbs of high levels.

Thanks for your help!!

[molly muffin]

Oh dear. No sweetie, if she hasn't had any meds for a month and those are her numbers, then you really don't want to start giving her any lysodren now it could have dire consequences for her. Actually some dogs end up never needing anything again for cushings you just don't know, but definitely not till 2 things happen, her symptoms come back and her cortisol tests as high out of range. Right now, Diamond is the other way, with cortisol very low and some rescue pred, of a low dose could be beneficial for a bit. I agree with Lori.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

Ok... so would u recommend pred every other day now?

Then wait for the symptoms huh? No maintenance even at 1/4?

What i dont get is arent these the normal range numbers? ?? He even said shes where ahe should be so lets keep her at this level.

Or as i just posted i can let her get higher which i guess ill do....
I just cant rake how crazy and awful this has been and now this vet is a clueless as the first

[Harley PoMMom]

Cortisol lower than 2ug/dl is considered an Addison's crisis. Please, no Lysodren, and what mg is the prednisone? The usual rescue dose of prednisone is 0.25 mg/kg, how much does Diamond weigh?

[mb935]

She is now 82 lbs.

I just gave her 5 mg.

[Harley PoMMom]

As I posted before the usual rescue dose is .25mg/kg, so with Diamond weighing 82 lbs that is 37.27 kg...37 kg * .25 mg = 9.32 mg of prednisone. Her current dose of prednisone might be adequate, I don't really know, I would look for signs of too low cortisol such as vomiting, diarrhea, not wanting to eat and/or drink, and if she seems off in any way, and in that situation, if it were me I would give some prednisone and place a call to the vet.

Hugs, Lori

[mb935]

Thanks

The only she ever vomited wss whem i gave herlysodren for maintenance.... and i stopped.

She has since loading been laying around...panting a lot and delaying stairs.

Vet thinks she has jount issues.

Her fur is very thick and rvery other issue is normal

[mb935]

Diamond is the same since last post with no meds at all.

I will get her another acth test soon since she is starting to drink a little more rhan usual.

Id really like to give her dandelion root since neither vet knows what they r doing.

Any suggestions on this option. I'm planning on buying this week

Thanks

[addy]

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-706-DANDELION.aspx?activeIngredientId=706&activeIngredientName=DANDELION

From what I have read it can increase urine production in humans and possibly affect how other medications metabolize.

For what purpose would use adminster it? I have no direct experience with it but as with anything, there is a cause and affect.

[molly muffin]

From what I understand, or have read, I should say, the root acts on the liver as a stimulant to get bile flowing and toxins out while the leaf acts as a diuretic and increases urination.

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/6_7/features/5554-1.html

I've never used it myself, but that is what I have read. It wouldn't hurt to get another ACTH as you plan to do to see exactly what is going on with her now.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

thanks for the responses and links. I will read them now..

I just was going to use it because it came up in most searches on what's beneficial for dogs with this disease.

Since I can not find a vet who knows what they are doing I hoped this might help get her numbers normal and feel better.

[addy]

About the Dandelion - do you have flower, leaf or root on hand? In what form - dried herb, alcohol tincture, etc.?

Dandelion has several actions, one of which is as a diuretic. What are you hoping to achieve by using the Dandelion? We may be able to find another option or two knowing what your goal(s) is / are.

Those allergic to or that have a sensitivity to plants in the Aster family, may have a reaction to Dandelion. I'll have to check to see what, if any, other cautions accompany this plant and get back to you.


I found this info our Leslie posted. She was studying medicinal herbs.

[Budsters Mom]

The Aster family is a huge family of plants. Be extremely careful if you have a dog with allergies!!! :eek::eek: My Buddy was extremely limited as to herbs he could be given. He could not tolerate Milk Thistle or Dandelion. Leslie suggested a brilliant way to allergy test. I did this before I starting Buddy on SEB (Slippery Elm Bark)or any other new herbs...

Mix the herb with a very small amount of water. Crush it, if it comes in pill form. Make a paste. Apply a very small amount on your dog's stomach. Somewhere he/she can't lick it off. Wait and watch for 24 hours. If no redness or irritation develops, it is generally safe to use.

[mb935]

Thanks!!!

My bf just bought dandelion root tea. My plan is to get another test first to get her current numbers. Then try the tea or pills at gnc .... see how she does than another test.

Lysodren is too strong for her plus of course using a natural option is what id prefer IF it can replace it. I'm not sure of that either and my vet won't know...

[addy]

Hi,
If your plan is to lower your dog’s cortisol with dandelion root, I’m really sorry but I don’t see how it is going to happen. There have been some articles on line, including in The Whole Dog Journal, touting the medicinal benefits of dandelion, including the possibility of helping the liver. Believe me when I say none of us want to use Lysodren or Trilostane but the fact of the matter is those are the drugs that work best in lowering cortisol.
Having said that, there was another member who tried the holistic route as her dog simply could not take the drugs we normally use. I’ll try to find that thread for you at lunch time. I’m at work right now.
The goal of treatment is to ease symptoms, improve our dog’s quality of life and try to stop the havoc of excess cortisol. Dogs with high cortisol are more prone to pancreatitis, diabetes, eye issues, skin issues, muscle wasting, liver problems, protein in the urine; it is a long list.
I’ll try to find the thread for you to read through. Perhaps there will be similarities in the symptoms and blood work and you can see what natural herbs were used.
We are not here to judge you but I just want to make sure you understand. I'll review your thread as well.

Hugs

[mb935]

Thanks so much addy.

I assumed because its on many websites that it may work for some but also understand no one wants to use tge drugs and pay those prices therefore does not working for all.

I really need the advice here since after switching to a new vet realized his suggestions weren't any better. Apparently diamond went so low while loading the first vet never dealt with that before....

So I look forward to reading the thread....

Thanks for your time!!!

[addy]

Wow, ok, so I have skimmed through your thread and am up to speed on what has been happening with Diamond. I understand that you have zero confidence in your vets. So now what, right? No wonder you are thinking forget it and I'll treat Diamond with medicinal herbs.

I'm out of time right now but I know all the others will be along soon. We'll get it sorted out, ok?

[addy]

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4702&highlight=homeopathic

Now this is the link about Buddy's journey. He did unfortunately pass away and I dont want that to upset you. There are discussions about herbs and diet, etc that you may find helpful.

I am also giving you Jasper's thread. Jasper went too low on Lysodren and I really think you may find some information in this thread to be helpful

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4372&page=106


I know you are worried about having to restart lysodren if in fact Diamond needs it. We have Jenny a diabetic poodle that went too low and she has not need any drug for almost two years.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3489&page=27&highlight=judi+jenny

So start at page 1 of all the threads. I gave you homework!!:):):):)

[mb935]

:).... its homework I don't mind.

Thank you soooo very much!!!

Diamond is only 8.5 and it especially breaks my heart that she may either be miserable for the rest of her life..... or die early. So I'm really trying I just have had it with these vets...

Neither vet has even contacted me to even see what's going on btw!!

[mb935]

Working on reading....

came across someone mentioning the baseline cortisol test for the numbers.

Is this recommended at this point if i just want to see where she is (again has had zero meds since april) and her levels were around 2 a few months after that.

If i can get away with this test without having to leave her at vets (very stressful) that would be great - any ideas????

[labblab]

A full ACTH stim test always gives the most complete picture, but a baseline cortisol alone can give a degree of reassurance as to whether or not a dog's cortisol level has dropped too low. As long as the baseline is no lower than 2.0 ug/dl, it is less likely that a dog is suffering from oversuppressed adrenal function. You cannot rely on a baseline reading alone for the reverse, however. You need a full stim test performed prior to resuming or increasing Cushing's medication.

Marianne

[My sweet Ginger]

Since ACTH stim test only takes one hr can you either walk Diamond around the vet's if you live far or bring her home and then take her back if you live close by? We live only a few miles away and I always brought Ginger home and took her back each time for her many ACTHs and one LDDST. I couldn't leave her there alone.

[mb935]

The first vet I did sit with her every time.... this new one supposively takes 2 hours and I have to drop her off during a certain time (hate that). For her first and onpy test there....she was done within the two hours

They really weren't thrilled w me requesting to hang around and swore shed be looked after.... bad anxiety can't be "taken care of".

But thanks I know now to get the full test!

[addy]

If they are not crazy about you hanging around, you can take Diamond out for two hours, even if it is to a nearby park, or to sit in the grass somewhere unless that will make her anxious. Perhaps a response to the vet would be "I understand the anxiety may be handled here, but I prefer to remain with my dog for the two hours so we need to work that out, so my concerns are better addressed. What can we do?";););)

Dont be afraid to speak up, do it in a non threatening, no blame way.

Ask if you can stay in a room with Diamond for the two hours. I always stayed with my pup for tests. Even when they would tell me her blood pressure was high I would tell them "she is stressed and needs to be in a quiet place, then take it again and it was always lower.

If you truly believe Diamond will be less anxious if she is with you for the two hours, then tell them to make it happen.

[mb935]

I just realized Diamond has not had her shots in 2 years. I will admit this is because of the fear of over vaccination. (She did have rabies however.)

I have read that dogs with weak immune systems should not get them but read up on parvo today and am paranoid about that.

So... I want some ideas on what to do before taking her to the vet. I can say whatever he tells me Im going to do with no prior knowledge.

Thanks for any info.

[labblab]

Can you remind us how old Diamond is, and what has been her past vaccination history? How many previous boosters has she received, and at what time interval? Also, has there been a parvo outbreak in your area that has you especially worried, or are you just generally concerned?

My personal opinion is that vaccination decisions depend upon the history, physical status, lifestyle, and risk factors for each individual dog. So it will help if you'll fill us in on some specifics re: Diamond's age and situation.

Thanks!
Marianne

[mb935]

Diamond will be 9 in October.

She has been a healthy dog and has had her shots yearly until I was told dogs can be over vaccinated which is unhealthy. She had her rabies shot over a year ago and the rest over 2 years.

She was diagnosed with cushings in january. Presently she is on no meds as lysodren resulted in very low numbers. She has yet to show signs of needing another test/medication. But i will get one soon since i dont want her getting too high. (Not sure when signs start exactly (at what number range) or if its different with every dog). Her present vet said this was fine to do.

And... my inquiry comes from knowing someone whose dog just died from it. No where near where I live... just started looking into it.

Also... she is a pit mix - read they are more prone to getting it??? We also live in south jersey if that matters.

THANKS SO MUCH!!!

[addy]

Does your vet do titers? We titer my non Cush pup.

[flynnandian]

i titer too, and my dogs [12 and 13 year old] are not vaccinated since 2006 and are still ok!
vets do prey on our fear for illnesses, but [like our human vaccins] , doggie vaccins last a lot longer than your vet says.
some firms garantee their cocktails/rabies for at least 3 years now.

3-yearly registered [cocktail] ; Nobivac (firma Intervet), Vanguard (firma Pfizer) en Duramune (firma Pfizer)

3-yearly registered ; Rabiës (Europe)
: Nobivac (firma Intervet)

and remember never vaccinate an ill animal!

[lulusmom]

All 27 or 28 veterinary teaching hospitals in the North America have adopted the AAHA Vaccine Guidelines and it sounds as though your vet is not adhering to those guidelines. Unless animal control in your area requires annual rabies vaccine, your vet should have a darn good reason to be vaccinating your pup every year. Short of having a titre that shows no to low level of immunity, there is no good reason. Since rabies are the only vaccines that are required by law, other core vaccines should only be given if necessary; otherwise the AAHA guidelines are every three years after the first year booster. I am providing a pdf of the AAHA Vaccine Guidelines. It's a long and often technical read but I recommend every pet owner read it. There are some frequently asked questions in the back of the guidelines that answer most of us pet owners' questions. Don't be afraid to hold your vet's feet to the fire and ask him/her why s/he is not adhering to the AAHA guidelines. It really is inexcusable to over vaccinate our companion animals without good reason, especially our pets with chronic diseases.
https://www.aahanet.org/publicdocuments/caninevaccineguidelines.pdf

If you have some time on your hands and want to get educated by the world's premier expert on immunology, I highly recommend that you watch Dr. Ronald Schultz' four part interview with Dr. Karen Becker. He makes it all easy to understand. I've included the URL to those videos below. FYI, Dr. Schultz headed up the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) Canine Vaccine Task Force and the American Association of Feline Practitioners (AAFP) Feline Vaccine Task Force and helped write the guidelines for these two organizations. He subsequently contributed to writing the canine and feline vaccine guidelines for the World Small Animal Veterinary Medical Association.

Part 1 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC--bGthNN8
Part 2 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Zvg8tIxeY
Part 3 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc-6exZcbJ4
Part 4 of 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdPhj8Vq9ck

[labblab]

Thanks for the additional info, and I agree with the advice you have already been given. Dogs who are acutely ill should not be vaccinated until the illness has resolved, and dogs with uncontrolled high cortisol levels may fall into that category. For dogs with ongoing chronic illness such as Cushing's that has been stabilized with treatment, I believe that risks of vaccination vs. vulnerability to illness have to be weighed.

Given Diamond's age and multiple past vaccinations, I totally agree that I would ask that her titers be tested for the components of the combo vaccination that includes parvo. It may well be that her current immunity will extend for several more years without any need for revaccination. That is what I am currently doing for my 9-year-old nonCushpup who suffers from seizure disorder. She now receives a 3-year Rabies booster and we otherwise check her titers before administering any other of the combo vaccines. Our vet uses IDEXX for the titer-testing as well as her regular labwork, so titer-testing is not an exotic procedure that is at all difficult to arrange.

Marianne

[mb935]

Hi again.

Thanks for all the info on the vaccinations. Appreciate that.

My next question... since my vet isnt helping although he did say I COULD wait for signs (excess drinking/peeing etc) for her next test.

Im wondering... is that what I should do?

Her last test was may 29 and her numbers were at 2 being on no meds for around 2 months prior - so it was requested here that I NOT give her lysodren again as suggested by vet.

So Ive just been waiting really. I was going to just get a test just because a few months have passed. Yet... do you guys recommend doing that or waiting (and paying close attention) to the signs that her numbers are going up.

Nothing as changed with her personality, daily routine etc.

I certainly dont have the money to just get her tested for the heck of it either. So... whatever is the best for her and economically is the answer Im looking for.

THANKS!!!

[molly muffin]

I would wait until she shows symptoms again. She isn't on medication right now, so it isn't like she is going too low at this point.

That would also give you time to save up for the test, rather than put you into a crunch.

Right now she has no symptoms and hasn't been on anything for 2 months. She might at some point come back up, likely will, but there isn't any immediate rush needed that I can see.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[addy]

I totally agree. If it were my pup, I would wait for symptoms to start up again. If I am recalling correctly, Judi's Jenny still was symptom free and on no medication after a year and I believe she still is not.

We just never know how it will play out.

[My sweet Ginger]

That's exactly what Ginger's 2nd IMS said when we first went to see her 7 months ago that Ginger will tell us with her clinical signs and no one's mentioning ACTH as of yet.

[mb935]

Awesome. Thank you.

Not sure why I didn't ask before. :) I guess I assumed she'd show signs by now.

Can you say if it will be a slow progression then IF it happens?

I'm glad she doesn't need the meds yet although still very low energy .... but I had just bought 15 pills at 80 bucks so I didn't run out and should have waited.

Does lysodren expire????

Thanks again

[molly muffin]

It should have an expiration on it, if not then ask the vet (is that who you got it from).

It's hard to say, sometimes they bounce back and need it sooner and some take a very long time, or never need it. Some it is months, some it is longer.

hugs
Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

Thanks. One more question.... (for now) :)

She has not lost her belly yet. Is this normal / ok?? I read it takes 6 months which has now passed since her loading period.

This last vet also suggested not exercising her right now until her numbers are up. She also eats at least a cup less daily than she did before treatment.

Thanks

[molly muffin]

Eeek, not sure how I missed your last post. It can take a bit of time for some symptoms to go away, if they do. Not all do, and some just take longer than others.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[Squirt's Mom]

Has Diamond had an abdominal ultrasound?

[mb935]

She did ... Yes.

One of the first things the first vet did. All was ok except an enlarged...liver? Is it?
thanks

[molly muffin]

An enlarged liver with a cush pup is normally the by product of the excess cortisol production, and it can go either way remain enlarged or go back to a more normal size. The pot belly is in part due to muscles weakening and the enlarged liver.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

Hi.

So Diamond is still the same - no changes in drinking/peeing etc.

I was just wondering due to her lack of energy... is local honey ok to give her? Or any other options??

she will get up and follow me around the house but just walks really slowly. Ive been giving her joint supplements in case she is sore.

thanks for any info

[molly muffin]

If Diamond is still displaying adverse effects from the lysodren, have you considered having another ACTH to see exactly what the cortisol is doing now?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

She hasnt been on any meds since january? I actually forget now.

So I just wanted an idea on any food/supplements to help with her energy.

I did however just schedule another acth test for next week - shes starting to drink more so its probably time.

This dr along with her past vet want her on lysodren AND prednisone. So I will be back next week w her results to get opinions here. :)

thanks

[mb935]

She got her acth test today.

Lost 16 pounds since end of may. Has been finicky with food.

Is this ok? 66lbs Is her normal weight. She was 92 I think at one point before diagnosed.

[molly muffin]

So she is coming down to her normal weight, which isn't a bad thing. (easier on the joints) It is common after having a time of her cortisol going low for them to be finicky. If this doesn't rebound you might have to try to find something to encourage her to eat, make sure she is getting enough nutrients. Not an easy task sometimes.

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

Her numbers r now 3.4 and 3.7

This is no meds since 2/10 her loading period.

Vet said since her last numbers were in tge 2s that she's Addison now and to wait a few months before giving her lysodrine again. What's odd is this is the same Vet who wanted her on lysodren and pred last test in may. ???

He also suggested putting her on 1 tablet of pred a day for 3 days than every other day for week for her energy issue.

Any one agree? ???? THANKS! !!!

[mb935]

Any suggestions on starting pred for energy? See prior post.
Thanks


I'd like to get her started asap if agreed

[labblab]

The fact that there is so little difference between the resting cortisol and the stimulated cortisol does suggest to me that Diamond's adrenal function is still impaired. If that is the case, supplemental prednisone would likely be helpful, but I don't know that it is just a one-shot deal. In other words, Diamond may need something beyond just ten days if the adrenal reserves never sufficiently rebound. But that is another question.

How much does Diamond weigh, and what dose of prednisone does the vet intend to give right now?

Marianne

[molly muffin]

Sorry about the previous reply. I got off on the wrong track.

So Marianne if there is little difference between the pre and the post number, then it is possible that this Is Addisons? I thought that since the cortisol is actually coming back on it's own, slowly, that it wasn't full Addisons. Would the prednisone take over and cause the Adrenals to stop responding at all?

Sharlene and molly muffin

[mb935]

Thanks!!

She is now 66lbs. Her normal weight down from 88 in may.

Tge vet wants her on 5mg once a day.

Should I start that then to see. It won't hurt her? ??

[My sweet Ginger]

Let's see. Ginger's numbers were around 3s for both pre and post. Her 2nd IMS said Ginger was 'functionally Addisonian' and she needed therapeutic prednisone therapy daily until she shows signs of high cortisol which we still don't see. She didn't even want to perform another ACTH. We only did one ACTH so far a few months ago since last year just to see whether her adrenals were stimulating or not and it was not to see where the numbers were because we knew she still needed prednisone to survive which continues to this date.
The way I see it Diamond's pre and post numbers are still blunted meaning her adrenals are not really stimulating enough reserves. I don't remember what would be the therapeutic dosage for Diamond but it sure sounds like she needs prednisone as long as she needs it. Please, give Diamond her daily prednisone.

[My sweet Ginger]

It will help her instead of hurting her and she needs to stay on it until she doesn't need it anymore and not just for a few days. Maybe you can lower the dosage eventually a little by little until her adrenals start stimulating on their own again but give her the 5mg for now.

[mb935]

I came home to find an attempted vomit clean up. It seems like she vomited as it is too large for the cat.

Anyone know what this might mean given she is not on meds? and would pred help???

I will give it to her now.

Thanks again so much!!!! She would REALLY be a mess if not for your help.

ALSO... I did forget after loading I did put her on lysodren twice a week for a month in march/april. Im thinking THIS is what messed her up so badly and Im kicking myself.

[labblab]

So Marianne if there is little difference between the pre and the post number, then it is possible that this Is Addisons? I thought that since the cortisol is actually coming back on it's own, slowly, that it wasn't full Addisons. Would the prednisone take over and cause the Adrenals to stop responding at all?

I believe the vast majority of dogs who are diagnosed as being Addisonian have cortisol levels that are less than 1 or 2. Even though Diamond's cortisol is not that low, I don't think she is responding properly to ACTH stimulation. Coupled with her lethargy and now perhaps vomiting, it makes me think that her adrenal function is still impaired in some way -- as Song's vet described it to her: functionally Addisonian even if not technically so. But I am solely speculating here, and yes, somebody with knowledge does need to be overseeing the prednisone so as not to be giving it for either too short or too long a time.

Given Diamond's weight, I think the 5 mg. represents an accurate daily "rescue" dose. I cannot advise you to do other than what your vet has suggested, so you can try the two-week regimen that he has mapped out for you. But if she lapses back again once the prednisone has been discontinued, then you will need to talk with the vet about the next step and whether she needs the prednisone for a longer time.

Plus, this new development -- the vomiting -- is worrisome in its own right. Yes, I would give Diamond the prednisone as your vet as instructed. If she doesn't improve or worsens, she may need additional intervention. I can't remember how long it has been since her blood chemistries ("electrolytes") have been checked. Impaired adrenal function can mess up the balance of potassium and sodium in the body, as well. Keep us updated, OK?

Marianne

[mb935]

THANKS!

No more vomiting but wanted to check on this with you.

So vet suggested only 3 days daily dosage and then every other day. He said call him on Monday. I called today and he now wants to do all the tests at $500.

(my cat was just diagnosed with diabetes costing almost that much)

Im assuming you would suggest trying the pred for a bit longer??? She was only on it for a total of 6 days. As suggested by
you guys... she should be on it daily but I skipped a day (via vet's advice) is that OK???

Daily wont cause problems as opposed to every other day correct?

Does it need to be given daily at the same time???

THANKS!!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

How is her appetite? Is she drinking normally? When a dog's cortisol drops too low prednisone is given because it mimics the way cortisol works in a dog's system.

When prednsione is given over a period of time it can not be suddenly stopped, prednisone has to be tapered off to give the adrenal glands some time to start producing cortisol once again.

Exactly what tests does the vet want to perform?

Just be aware that prednsione may cause increases in drinking and urinating.

Hugs, Lori

[mb935]

She seems to be drinking more. ... not going to bowl more but taking in more water.

She's still a bit picky with food. But seemed to eat more yesterday than normal.

So it's ok to go back to once a day after skipping 2 alternate days?

And does pill need to be given same time.

[labblab]

For right now, I think you need to stick to the exact dosing schedule that your vet advised. If he wants you to dose every other day right now, I think you should follow his instructions.

The thing is, it does make a difference if you dose daily vs. every other day in terms of the risk of creating a dependence upon the drug. As Lori has said, if prednisone is given daily for more than just a few days, then you have to go through a process of weaning when it's time to discontinue the drug. I believe your vet is trying to avoid creating dependence upon the drug by switching from the daily dose to the every-other-day dose before discontinuing. Whether or not Diamond will be OK with only this short-term course of prednisone, I don't think any of us know right now. It may turn out that she will need to resume the prednisone for a longer period of time, and you will find that out if she starts dragging again after this course of prednisone has been completed. But for the moment, I assume your vet is trying to avoid creating a physiological dependence upon the prednisone if it is not already there. I do think the blunted ACTH result raises some questions about Diamond's natural cortisol production, but you need a professional's advice as to the best way to clarify/address that.

Proper dosing with steroids demands professional oversight. So I'm afraid we are not qualified to tell you what to do here. I am so sorry about the mounting expense and the new diagnosis with your cat. I can imagine how burdensome and overwhelming it all must feel.

What additional testing does your vet want to perform right now? I do think it makes sense to repeat some basic blood panels, but it sounds as though he is wanting to do something more extensive?

Marianne

[mb935]

Thank you Marianne! !

Very helpful as you all have been. ...

He wants blood, Urine and xrays.

If just blood would tell me enough or go step by step. I'd if course prefer that.

[mb935]

Hi!

So Diamond has been diagnosed with arthritis in her paws? I just looked it up and cant find much on "paws". The dr wanted her to have laser therapy on each. I just want to make sure its a known area.

My question concerning cushings.... :) I was told she could not be put on Rimadyl because of the disease. She is on tramadol and its either not working or just adding to her lethargy.

Anyone with any info on this new concern would be great. She is doing worse now than ever by the way. I can hardly get her down the stairs anymore.

[labblab]

I'm afraid I am not knowledgeable about laser therapy, so I'm hoping somebody with more experience will drop by.

As far as the Rimadyl, it falls in the class of drugs known as NSAIDS. These drugs can carry special and very serious risks for dogs with pre-existing liver or kidney problems, or when they are used in conjunction with steroids (either when given supplementally such as prednisone, or when cortisol is elevated). Unfortunately, Cushpups can qualify for all of the above depending upon their disease progression and treatment control.

In that vein, what is going on with Diamond in terms of her Lysodren treatment and/or prednisone? When you wrote to us last, she was not feeling well and the status of her cortisol production was questionable. Did you go forward with any more testing? Did she ever recover and normalize? If not, her ongoing lethargy may be unrelated to either arthritis or the Tramadol. And can you please remind us how old Diamond is?

Marianne

[flynnandian]

to help you marianne, on 26-1-2014 she has written this;

My dog is only 8 though with no other health issues or drugs. Because of this disease she is now 90 lbs (was 65 when healthy).

[mb935]

She also got her urine tested and it's fine. But I just made appointment for blood work tomorrow.

She is on no meds now other than tramadol.

Thanks

[molly muffin]

I think any joint can develop arthritis in it. Tramadol is considered a safer option for any dog that might have other problems or questionable liver/kidneys.

[mb935]

Her alkaline phosphates are at 2000. I know thats very high. He wants a resting cortisol level. Her last test was oct... do I need another so soon. 3.4 and 3.7 Can she all of a sudden go up??

I want the other vet to do it because I want his opinion on what to do now.

This vet by the way is the old one I dont like - as a 24 hour hospital - I happened to get him again for what was just a arthritis check.

He also suggests xrays... which is most likely the next step.

he gave her a pain injection before leaving which was so stupid. She has more tired ever since. Buprex something.... Im so mad I did that (for arthritis pain)

So basically one vet says simple arthritis - the other says cushings related and possible cancer.

.... happy Thanksgiving and thanks!!

PS... JUST found 3 sites stating that tramadol can increase this level. She has been on that 4 pills a day for about 4 days before this test. AGAIN... I trust you guys to know more than obviously me but even this vet. So... please let me know (sorry to bother you all on a holiday) :)

[Harley PoMMom]

PS... JUST found 3 sites stating that tramadol can increase this level. She has been on that 4 pills a day for about 4 days before this test. AGAIN... I trust you guys to know more than obviously me but even this vet. So... please let me know (sorry to bother you all on a holiday) :)

If I'm reading your question correctly, you are asking if Tramadol increases cortisol levels? If so, than I don't believe so, I found a study where Tramadol was given to dogs undergoing surgery and their cortisol levels were checked, they found no increase in serum cortisol concentrations but it did have an effect on the blood glucose:
Significant increases in mean+/-SD blood glucose concentrations were detected in dogs receiving tramadol (96+/-14 mg/dL)...There were no significant changes in physiologic variables, serum IL-6 concentrations, or serum cortisol concentrations.

Comparison of the effects of tramadol, codeine, and ketoprofen alone or in combination on postoperative pain and on concentrations of blood glucose, serum cortisol, and serum interleukin-6 in dogs undergoing maxillectomy or mandibulectomy. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20807140)

Could you provide links to the articles you found? Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

Hugs, Lori

[mb935]

I was referring to tramadol affecting alkaline phosphates...

thanks

[molly muffin]

I've looked and can find nothing about tramadol causing an increase in alkaline phosphates in dogs. I believe there was a study that found it did in some humans, primarily over the age of 60.

[mb935]

Im now wondering if she doesnt have cancer.

I know her levels are still low for cushings and she was diagnosed with arthritis even though I went in saying thats what I assumed.... so I hope that vet was not just going along with me

but... she has lost a lot of weight in this last week - I can see it! she hasnt been eating as much as usual either.

She had diarrhea for about 20 hours starting wed. I called the vet about to tell them Id be bringing her in and they said to try kapectate and it did work.

But ever since teh vet said cancer... I dont know. He said next step would be xrays which Ill probably do this week. Shes just worse than ever before.

[mb935]

In the last 3 days diamond has had xrays, blood work, ultrasound, and her electrolytes tested.

They really have no clue what is wrong as everything came back ok and I may need a specialist.

Some of her organs are a little enlarged.

im now to put her on liver and gall bladder support. Could have IBD. cancer is a possibility also.

As of late she still refuses going down stairs - extremely difficult and frustrating - has had diarrhea over 2 days - now is a dark sludge. Now slowly eating chicken (did refuse it one day).

Was given kaopectac (per dr) two days... now told to give her pepsid for any nausea she may have had to keep her from eating.

Told to order her denaman for liver and ursiodiol for gall bladder.

Im to give her a week to see how she does....

(SIGH) Any input on these meds as far as recommendations??

thanks...

[addy]

Inflammatory bowel disease can be diagnosed through endescopy. Irritable bowel syndrome or colitis, could contribute to your pup's loose stool and upset stomach as well.

Some of the pain meds can also cause those same problems.

Have they tried a course of Metronidazole? It has anti inflammatory properties and may help with the loose stools.

[mb935]

Right now her loose stools are over - just gobs of gook coming out. Have seen 3 vets... so nothing said about that.

My question is can sam-e and milk thistle be used instead of denamarin? Ive read some info on this.

I have no money left. I cant now spend 70 a month on this med. havent looked into 2nd option yet

[Squirt's Mom]

SAMe and milk thistle should help but whether they can replace Denamarin, I don't know. I would use them rather than nothing, tho. These meds can get really expensive, huh? I know what it feels like to be in that place. :(

[judymaggie]

Hi -- SAMe and milk thistle are the two primary ingredients in Denamarin. I bought a bottle on Amazon and it was quite expensive. One option is S-Adenosyl which is less expensive and is also available on Amazon. SAMe by itself can be expensive; you might compare it to costs for Denosyl and then get milk thistle separately. Also, if you get SAMe at a health food store, it might be difficult to figure out a correct dose.

If you are going to administer both Denamarin (or equivalent) and ursodiol, I would recommend that you not start both at the same time. Although there are no reported side effects for Denamarin, every dog is different. If you start both together and there are issues, you wouldn't know which is the cause.

Addy mentioned metronidazole -- I give it to my Abbie twice a day and also give her pepcid original before meals and sprinkle Fortiflora (probiotics) on her food. This regimen has her chronic diarrhea under control. You had said her loose stools were over but there is "gobs of gook". Not sure what that means but, if her stools are not firm, you might try any/all of the above. I discussed all this with my vet which I would suggest you do if you are going to use any of them.

[mb935]

THANKS!!!

Im going out now to get nature's way milk thistle. read others have given that to their dogs.

Ill work out everything else later. I do like to try one thing at a time also to see if it works and if its all she needs. But im sure its not going to be that easy.

The ursodiol was listed at like $400 a month? IS that right becuase the other is "only" around 50/60. How is that possible?

[judymaggie]

Hi--I was giving my last beagle (also a Cush pup) ursodiol. It's been 5 years but I know I didn't spend $400 a month! She was on many meds the last year of her life so I really had to watch costs. Not sure where you live but I compare prices at Wal-Mart, Target and Sam's and have my vet call in a prescription. I know not all vets are so willing to do this; I am fortunate that he tries to help me save some money.
Did you see the info in the resources section about dosing with the milk thistle? I am not at my computer right now so can't pull up the link.

[mb935]

She is niw peeing once every 24 hours!

Called vet every single test has been negative... including fecal and that's it they will no longer help me

I have to research on my own... woukd tramadol cause lack of peeing?????.

[Renee]

Is she straining to pee? Does she try and go, and nothing comes out? How does the pee look that does come out?

I would be very worried about some kind of blockage. If she's straining to go, that can become an emergency very quick. I'd recommend taking her to the vet if possible.

[Squirt's Mom]

Your vet will no longer help you?!

[molly muffin]

I am wondering about any bladder stones, kidney stones, gall bladder sludge, etc that could be causing the problem with both bowel and urinary tract.

Did they tell you they would no longer help you? Haven't you seen a couple different vets? Wouldn't one of them want to get this figured out for you?

Hang in there,
hugs

[mb935]

the 3 vets I've seen at the same hospital have done all they can. I'm to take her to a specialist at this point. ???

She peed when I came home. Went downstairs a little better. No straining. That's why I'm wondering if it's the tramadol

[molly muffin]

Perhaps, what if you tried to lower the tramadol dosage?
Yes I think if your vets can't do anything then a specialist is the next option.

[Squirt's Mom]

ah, ok....the first post sounded like they just told you to go away, they were through with you. That they don't know where to go from here is much better! ;) I don't know why they didn't send you to a specialist before now.

[mb935]

Well.. I guess I FELT like they were telling me to "go away".

I guess I never thought an emergency vet with various vets just couldnt help.

I started giving her 1 tramadol twice daily instead of 2 and she did pee twice yesterday!!! She also had a more normal bm.

Im also giving her milk thistle with licorice and fennel. Looked up these ingredients and they seem helpful even with cushings.

Back to being a bum... but much better than she was a week ago. I thought she wasnt coming home saturday. Her xray showed a mass and i was told it didnt look good. The next day for her ultrasound I was told by another vet there was nothing on the xray.

This has been really traumatic...

Fingers crossed.

[molly muffin]

Omg that is horrible! To think one day there is a big mass that looks bad and the next that there is nothing!! How on earth could they be so far off? Did the vet explain that to you by any chance?

Yes you would think an emergency vet clinic with multiple doctors would get it right for you, but it sure seems like they have been all over the place with the various vets and what they are telling you. To me, that seems off and it would certainly do me in too. It Is traumatic!

I would definitely get hooked up with a good internal medicine specialist.

hang in there!!
hugs

[molly muffin]

I just wanted to check n on you and diamond. Wishing the best for you both and a happy holiday season

Hugs

[mb935]

I just got your reply today....
Thanks for checking on her - i greatly appreciate that.

Im here again because she got another ACTH test today and Ill have the results possibly saturday.

She has improved in some areas- getting up more often- walking more outside - even chased a ball one day.

She started drinking a lot again - but has not started to pee a lot yet.

Vet said she could have Addison's. (this is the 2nd vet I started taking her to instead of the 24 hour ER vets)

She has lost a lot of weight. 6 pounds since nov when she had blood, urine, lyme, fecal tests, ultrasound and xrays done.

So she isnt showing cushings systems other than drinking a lot right now.

[Harley PoMMom]

We will be waiting anxiously with you for those ACTH stim results. ;)

[mb935]

Pre 3. Post 3.9. cushings wasn't shown nor was Addison s

But vet wants to try addison shot to see what happens.

Any opinions on doing this?

Thanks

[Squirt's Mom]

This is an IMS wanting to do this? What is the rationale behind it?

What is in the "Addison's shot", prenisone? If it's pred, I would say no because the ACTH is perfect - Diamond is NOT Addison's in any way based on those numbers so I don't understand the thinking here. :confused:

[labblab]

Is Diamond still totally off all Cushing's meds? How about supplemental prednisone? If she has not had any more Lysodren since last fall and her cortisol has not rebounded any higher than this, then yes, I would be worried that her adrenal function may still be compromised in some way. Even though not technically Addisonian, I would think that this qualifies as a relatively "flat" and low response for a dog not being treated with Cushing's meds (although as Leslie say, the results would be very good for a dog under treatment).

Were her blood chemistries checked alongside the ACTH test? If so, were her sodium and potassium levels OK?

Marianne

[mb935]

Not sure what shot is. He wants me to Come in but we need to talk on phone So ill call tomorrow.

Diamond has been on no meds since april.

Her test in oct was in the 3s also.

She had blood taken in nov. I was told she had elevated potasium I believe. Said it was around 2000 when it should be in tge 100s. But nothing was suggested

So should i try this shot. ... ill ask if it's prednisone.

[labblab]

High potassium and post-ACTH levels lower than 5-6 in dogs not being treated for Cushing's are very worrisome and could indeed point to Addison's. I am very surprised the high potassium level was not addressed last fall! Is this still your regular vet who you are dealing with? Diamond may very well need an injection that would contain both a steroid like prednisone and also a supplement for another adrenal hormone, aldosterone. You definitely need to talk to the vet and get this figured out, and perhaps finally shift to a specialist who knows better how to treat these problems. I know you have been thinking about a specialist for quite some time and the time may finally have come!

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Marianne is right. I had forgotten she had been off treatment for so long. So I do understand the vet's thinking for the injection. ;)

[Harley PoMMom]

I agree with Marianne, and am also very worried about Diamond. Elevated potassium can be life threatening, hopefully the vet will address this, keep us updated.

[mb935]

THANKS SO MUCH!!!

Took her in a few hours ago. Got the shot....

This is the newer vet... not the 24 hour hospital - although this vet also wanted her on lysodren and prednisone combined AND after her last test of 3's. Although to be fair it was because her numbers were slightly going up and he thought a very little would stabilize her.

Im assuming we were really blessed that I didnt continue the med - as she probably would have had terrible results with more lysoden correct?

We did try prednisone for a week - and that didnt work. Im assuming this means nothing - she just needs something stronger/different??

It really is (once again) your input that has helped me decide what to do.



THANKS!!!

[Harley PoMMom]

If her aldosterone is low than this most definitely needs attention. Either Percorten V Novartis or Florinef can be given, however there are some differences between them.

Percorten's function is to balance and control serum electrolytes so a glucocorticoid supplement is usually needed such as prednisone. Percorten-V is administered by injection every 25 - 31 days.

Florinef has glucocorticoid properties in addition to its mineralocorticoid properties, so prednsione it usually not needed. Florinef must be given daily.

Yes, you absolutely made the right judgement call in not giving her any more Lysodren..Good job, Mom!!!

[mb935]

I read also about Percorten-V and prednisone. He just gave her the shot. Didnt mention pred.

Will it not work? I hope it wasnt a waste - it was 175!!!! I think Id rather give her daily pills. But still want this shot to do something.

thanks...

[Squirt's Mom]

Let us know how she is today. You might call the vet and ask what that injection was they gave her.

[mb935]

He gave her Percorten.

Said i should see changes in about 5 days.

[mb935]

She's worse

Panting very heavy and was crying before bed. I've been sleeping on couch cause she doesn't seem to be able to sleep on pillow on floor anymore.

Assume this is arthritis.

Calling in am for rimidal. She is able to take this now right without Cushing symptoms

[Squirt's Mom]

Please let us know what the vet has to say and if the meds help.

[labblab]

Maybe she really does need some prednisone in addition to the Percoten shot. She can't have both Rimadyl and prednisone and I would want to try the pred first. Can you ask the vet for some pred this morning? I don't see how it can hurt and it may really help her.

[mb935]

She also peed in the living room.

Vet said this could be due to shot and it's my decision if i want to give her pred.. It didnt work alone last time.

I'm all for it just to see however he said she may pee more. I'm so upset she did that (not at her).. I have new carpet.

So far today she is back to her normal. So I don't know if I wait to see if she gets bad tonight again and I most
Definity Will give it to her or wait to see if shot alone works.

If she hadn't peed overnight that would be about me getting her out more during day. I can't take her out during the night every night.

So. ... again any input will be helpful. I think the v answer is obvious. I want her feeling better but peeing again and not sleeping Is the issue. I no longer have anyone to help me with her.
Thanks

[molly muffin]

If she seems to be getting worse again, then yes I would give her the pred.

He gave her the shot 2 days ago, I think it was and said improvements should be seen in 5 days. Did he say by any chance how she would be in between during that 5 days.

[mb935]

He said I could maybe see positive changes w in 24 hours but most likely 5 days.

He said there were no neg. Side effects.... but did say today these could be.

So far today no panting. I did try to make her bed higher in hopes shell sleep tonight. I guess I could try pred in the am on a day I'm home. Not sure if see results immediately

[molly muffin]

How did it go over night?

[mb935]

Thanks for asking. I called vet this am but he's not t
ere either fri or sat whixh makes me nervous as to why....

I have not given her pred due to urine fear. She did pop in the houae 3 times in 24 hours and not diarrhea. I don't know why she would not jold it. Twice overnight and once while I was gone for 6 hours.

She's been panting a little today but not too bad yet

So basically I've seen zero change in her with this shot. I really thought this was the answer and getting so upset and depressed that every hope results in more aggravation

[Squirt's Mom]

She may really NEED the pred. What is meant by your "urine fear"? Put a diaper on her or crate her or put her on a floor with no carpet if that is your fear - her ruining flooring. But the pred is a life saving drug when our pups go too low. ;)

[molly muffin]

If she poops in the house and it is solid, then I usually think IBD. It makes them just Have to go.

I'd try a doggie play pen maybe for when you aren't home. put food and water in with her bedding and she should be fine. Start by leaving her for just a bit and extending it. Also I would suggest a little green machine. That little things cleans up dog urine/poop spots so easily and doesn't leave the carpets ruined at all. Works so much better than my big machine did that I ended up getting rid of the big machine.

[mb935]

Thanks for the suggestions. I order a few things yesterday.

Including an orthopedic bed since shes not sleeping at night. Slept on the couch all night with her last night. She did sleep.

2 things I want to make a point on...
Pred did not work when she took it for 2 weeks at vet's suggestion.
Also she was on tramadol for a month and that didnt work.

She is getting thinner!! Her head now looks more boney...

Any info on why this shot is not working? Is it possible Florinef will work instead or is this just hopeless in getting her better...

ALSO... I just did some more research on pred. I decided I should try it just to see especially since it is a pain med for arthritis.... but now my concern is that herbal remedies are not suggested. I gave her milk thistle and traumeel and hour ago. :( The traumeel i will just stop as of today.

Any info on milk thistle and pred?

Sorry for being annoying btw. I usually research first - and come here when I cant find answers.

thanks...

[labblab]

Diamond may need the benefit of both the prednisone and the Percoten injection at the same time. The two treatments address two separate issues: low aldosterone and low cortisol. So giving either one alone will not solve the whole problem if both hormones are being produced insufficiently, although giving both together may. Also, as I understand it, it may take a few days for the Percoten injection to kick in.

Also, keep in mind that the daily "rescue" dose of prednisone given to offset low cortisol is really not a high dose. The formula is .25 mg. per kilogram (and 1kilogram = 2.2 pounds). So, for instance, if Diamond weighs 50 pounds (I don't remember what she does weigh), 50 divided by 2.2 = 22.7. And 22.7 times .25 = a little less than 6 mg. Using that formula, hopefully you would not be prompting a big increase in thirst and urination. Instead, you would just be restoring her steroidal balance.

With your vet's OK, if it were me, I really would want to give the combo of the Percoten and the pred a try. I am not aware of an issue with milk thistle and pred, although I have never researched that combo.

Marianne

[mb935]

My vet has given me the ok to use pred if I want.... he again did not ever mention pred until I did.

So... unfortunately since i did give her herbal meds this morning I have to wait but Im most definitely giving her pred tomorrow morning!!

now... since the shot was given a week ago tomorrow - adding pred now should still show results (IF it works) since this shot lasts a month she still has it in her system?

Im just saying did waiting a week make a negative difference in getting both at the same time initially? If its possible to answer.

THANKS AGAIN!

[labblab]

No, I don't think it should make any difference that she first got the shot a week ago since, as you say, the effect is supposed to last for a month. So the benefit should still overlap with the pred.

I sure hope this helps!!

[mb935]

Just talked v to the vet. Since the shot has not helped. ... she doesn't have addisons according to him... ???

I can try rimidyl (with no pred) but that's it. According to him she has a bad disease and finding out what would not do anything as treatment is probably pointless. Her weight loss concerns him although it seems the pred is helping her gain. I know it's only been 3 days but I can feel a difference.

So my option now is rimidel for possible arthritis another vet diagnosed and/or to keep her comfortable for the time being. However if that doesn't work its then about putting her down

Please tell me he is wrong)

[mb935]

Sorry. Need info asap.

Vet wants me to stop pred as of this morning and start rimidel by tomorrow. Not sure he's correct on this. .

He said usually he'd wait a week between the 2 but diamond doesn't have that long. A bit dramatic since she's not worse!

She loves her New bed .... sleeps thru the night for first time in weeks and is peeing on grass on my porch since ive been lifting her down stairs for months... this could be cause she's scared (fur grew on paws So thick she slipped a few times so ive been trimming it. Gets up and does walk much more than 6 months ago when she got up 2x a day only. sleeping the rest of the time!

[Squirt's Mom]

Of those choices, I would be heading to a different vet this morning for a second opinion myself. ;) If the current vet is out of ideas, then it's time to find someone who has some more to offer this sweet girl and get her, and you, some relief. Let us know what you decide, sweetie. Thoughts and prayers from our house to yours.

[mb935]

Thanks.. sorry for your loss by the way.

There is no one to go to at this point. Ive been to them all in my area and didnt go back for various reasons. My cat was diagnosed with IBD told he'd be fine and really had cancer dying within the month etc.

I just need to know if pred needs more time. I only used it 3 days. I have 4 left. I was thinking of just finishing them. Then waiting a week to try rimadyl if thats the space really needed.

[irmaly]

Hi. I usually just read here because I am trying to determine if my dog is pre-cushings or something else is going on. I am not a vet and do not have any direct experience with cushings on any level. But I read through your thread last night and can appreciate what you are going through because I did have a wonderful dog (Harvey) who went through almost the same thing as is your Diamond. The main difference is that Harvey was around 13 when all this started.

While Harvey did not have many Cushings, he did go through almost the same situation your Diamond is now. Peeing in the house, problems controlling bowel movements, lethargy, whining, inability to get through his walks, etc, etc, etc. I am convinced that while we found nothing on ultrasounds or xrays, he most likely had some kind of cancer. The reason I am writing this is because I believe giving Rimadyl to Harvey was ultimately responsible for his sudden death. And I have beaten myself up for 7 years over having ever given it to him. I know that Rimadyl can be a lifesaver for many dogs, but I have questions about giving Rimadyl to a dog that is so seriously compromised on many, many levels.

I am not saying perhaps this isn't your only answer. I have no idea, but if it were me I would avoid that drug if there was any way I could. In case you do go forward, please be sure that a COMPLETE CBC is worked up on Diamond just prior to administering the drug to establish a baseline for kidney and liver numbers especially. Harvey, one day after taking Rimadyl was up, tail wagging, eager for his walk, but by day 3 he crashed and I had to put him down. even though I got him to the vet immediately upon his crash, his kidneys had completely failed.

I know you are between a rock and a hard place, but I just thought I would share my experience because I would not go for Rimadyl unless all else, I mean everything else, had failed. I am so sorry for what you are going through, I can relate, and I wish you and Diamond the very best of luck. You have certainly been an amazing friend to Diamond. I am always so impressed when I see such devotion.

[mb935]

WOW... thank you so much for your response. I do feel I failed her with being bull headed at times. I could take her to another 5 vets today but i know from experience that Im not getting any better answers.

ANYWAY, I just opened a few websites on rimadyl's dangers and will read them now.

But you have already got me thinking against it. Im so easily swayed. :) This vet's opinions don't mean much to me. And considering he said i could pick some up today with no mention of testing her first lets me know that once again Im making these decisions on my own (with the help from this site of course).

I have been giving her zeel and traumeel which I suppose I can continue instead.

I know she will be ready to go MUCH sooner than I want - again shes only 9 and I thats the hardest part of all this - her being older would be at least emotionally easier to handle. But... I know when she's really in pain I will do what is best for her.

Again, Thank you for your time and input

[irmaly]

I don't mean to sway you, but I promised myself, after kicking myself for years over not having investigating the drug before giving it to Harvey, that I would share my experience as a warning for others. Best of luck to you. You have no reason to kick yourself for anything. Diamond couldn't have a better friend.

[judymaggie]

I totally second the caution about Rimadyl. There are dogs on my beagle forum who have suffered needlessly from this drug. My vet still prescribes it but there is a big note on my pup's file not to prescribe it. I opt for Tramadol if a pain med is needed and Deramaxx if an anti-inflammatory is needed. If you tell your vet that you are not comfortable giving Diamond Rimadyl and would prefer an alternative, I would hope that your vet would understand.

You are a great Mom--give Diamond lots of love and a big hug from us!

[mb935]

Thanks... I was here with her all day and the thought of putting her down was the farthest from my mind - she showed no signs of pain at all. (panted a lot yesterday - but that could have been pred)

Im also hoping we can make it to the warmer weather so that if it is arthritis maybe she'll feel better then.

Well... I guess maybe its time I close up this thread so to speak considering she doesnt even have cushings. Not to say I wont be back if she shows signs again.

But I want to thank you all again for the help and all the time you give to everyone like me.

I (along with Diamond) seriously would have been a bigger mess without you guys. Had I listened to the vets she might not even be here.

God bless you!

[molly muffin]

Oh gosh, you don't have to close the thread because she doesn't have cushings.

Once you join us, your family, and we like to stay in touch whatever may be happening. :)

We'd all panic not knowing how she is doing.

hugs

[mb935]

:)

I didnt know if someone might be wondering why Im still posting. :)

ALSO... I was on a board last year and within days of my cat's death got a: "sorry for your loss - but now that hte cat has passed this thread is closed" response.

Thank you though - very kind!!! I will definitely keep you posted.

[molly muffin]

OMG, how horrible, especially when you are grieving losing your poor kitty. I'd be devastated to be told that. :(

Not at all, that isn't our motto here. We're about family and support. If there is no cushings, then this is a thing to be happy about, one less thing to deal with, but leave! nope, we are worry warts and curious aunt types, wanting to know how things are going, hoping for the best and figuring it all out as best we can. We help each other, no matter what the "diagnosis" is. Someone, some day, may be in your shoes and searching on the internet for an answer or help and find your thread here, and your journey will help them in some way. It is all we can hope for is that we help someone who needs it, somehow.

You know, my molly wasn't a definite diagnosis of cushing for the longest time, couple years. Yet, here I was, each and every day as best I could be. Now we are medicating for high cortisol, dealing with high BP and protein losing kidney disease. I don't know how I would have gotten here or made it through all this without the great people here.

You just pull up a chair, put your feet on that ottoman over there and make yourself at home. :)

[Harley PoMMom]

:) I didnt know if someone might be wondering why Im still posting. :)

We would be wondering and worrying more if you didn't post, so please do let us know how things are going for you and sweet Diamond.


ALSO... I was on a board last year and within days of my cat's death got a: "sorry for your loss - but now that hte cat has passed this thread is closed" response.



Oh my, well, you will never get such an insensitive response of that nature from us. :(:mad:

We would never close a thread solely based on the animal passing.

Hugs, Lori

[Squirt's Mom]

Oh my word! How horrible that happened to you about your kitty! :( But understand THIS - you and Diamond are family here no matter what - Cushing's or no. You are both OURS and we are YOURS for as long as you wish. ;) Close this thread and go away....what is wrong with you, woman?! :D We would be worried sick not hearing from you. It may be hard to believe, but I still remember folk from 6-7 years ago who just disappeared with no further word about anything. I still worry and wonder how they are. You and Diamond would be missed by many so stick around for as long as you like! :)

[irmaly]

Gosh. I hope I didn't say anything that would make you think I didn't think you should be posting :( These threads are so important to all of us who are trying to find a way to help our pups!

[mb935]

No... not at all. :)

It was just something that occurred to me and I felt because her issues now weren't cushings related maybe i needed to let others be helped.

Thanks for all the kind responses
...means a lot
.

[mb935]

This occurred to me in the middle of v the night. ....

Diamond has been getting 3 milk thistle pills daily for maybe 3 months. .

Is there anyway it's that powerful that it alone could keep her levels at 3????

[molly muffin]

Milk thistle is a liver support and might be helpful to the liver enzyme numbers but not to the cortisol numbers.

hugs